Warning: Windows 10 May Auto-Install On Your PC

Email subject line: “Windows 10.” From my father. ‘Should I upgrade?’ he wanted to know, a question surely posed by a hundred thousand parents to a hundred thousand adult offspring across the land. I didn’t know what to tell him. I like Windows 10 well enough; I even think it’s the best operating Microsoft have ever made. There’s nothing about it I could say anyone on Windows 7 really needs, however, and when it’s a case of someone with only rudimentary technical skills running the OS upgrade gauntlet, I wouldn’t say it’s worth the risk.

Before too long, though, the decision may be taken out of his and my hands – I may end up fielding the post-disaster support phone call regardless, as it seems Microsoft are stepping up their attempts to waft Windows 10 on as many PCs as possible. Even to the extent that the OS is seemingly now automatically installing itself.

It’s no secret that Microsoft are pushing Windows 10 hard – if you’re still a 7 or 8 user you’ve likely been bothered by prompts trying to entice you into the free upgrade, and in some cases it’s even been speculatively downloaded and sits taking up hard drive space until you crack and click the install button.

People have been annoyed by it, more by the presumptuousness and the pestering than because they actively don’t want Windows 10 – but a combination of principle, privacy concerns and simply not wanting to run the risk of software and drivers going haywire post-upgrade has created understandable reluctance to take the plunge until one is good and ready.

I understand why Microsoft is doing it: their phone business is in disarray, PlayStation 4 has put Xbox One in the doldrums and Apple increasingly controls the portable computing conversation, so MS really need a big win. Said win being a Windows 10 install base in the high millions within less than a year. I worry that effectively forcing it onto people is only going to drive them all the more to the competition. There’s no doubt that Win 10’s install/upgrade process is smoother and safer than any prior Microsoft OS, but there are still huge risks, and people need to be able to choose and control what goes on.

My own upgrade was fairly straightforward, but I did end up with a no-longer-functional webcam, a soundcard which required uncommonly convoluted manual driver installation, a couple of glitchy games and all my default programs reset to Microsoft’s own applications. Nothing major went wrong, but I still had to spend half a day fiddling, and that’s as someone who broadly knows what they’re doing. For someone less PC-savvy who just clicked the Upgrade button and trusted all will be well, that stuff’s a frightening mountain.

In some cases, people have reported that their hard drive RAID arrays are no longer recognised, or come back to a completely bricked machine. No matter how cheerful the install menus, an OS upgrade is a huge, huge thing to do to your PC, and Microsoft absolutely should not force that onto anyone.

But that appears to be precisely what they’re doing. The latest outrage concerns the Windows 10 upgrade’s reclassification from an optional to a Recommended update in Windows Update, which they declared and tried to justify last October. Presuming you’d left Windows Update on its default settings, this meant that Windows 7 and 8 PCs would automatically download the upgrade files, but in theory should not install them until the user specifically agrees to. In theory.

In practice, default Windows Update behaviour means the PC begins installing any downloaded updates within a few minutes of acquiring them, unless the user clicks the pop-up prompts which tell it not to. Leave your PC on while you go to walk the dog, have a shower or become embroiled in an argument with your partner about why you never do the damn washing up and you might return to find it halfway through the installation of a new operating system. Or even on the other side of it, in which case you might find a crucial application or device no longer works as it should.

That 15-minute warning/opt-out prompt usually steals focus from whatever you’re doing, by the way, but every once in a while it might be not be able to minimise a game, you might click away by mistake or a bunch of other things which mean you simply don’t see it. And then bam, a sudden restart and Windows 10 starts installing. I.e. while Microsoft might argue everyone gets fair warning and the chance to decline the upgrade, the reality is that this can go wrong.

This Reddit thread contains many tales of woe and outrage, as well as a few extra fixes to try and stop this from happening to your PC.

The good news is that, if this happens to you, in theory you can roll back the upgrade relatively painlessly within a month of it happening. In theory. Settings – Update and Security -Recovery and Uninstall Windows 10 is where to go if you want to do that, but it’ll probably put your PC out of action for an hour or so, plus, like the Win 10 upgrade itself, it is not 100% guaranteed risk-free.

If you don’t want any of this stuff to happen in the first place, you’ll want to get yourself to Windows Update, opt out of Recommended updates and only into essential ones, and potentially even turn off automatic updates entirely – in which case you should run Windows Update manually on a regular basis, as getting the ongoing security fixes is pretty much vital on this wild, wild web of ours.

Other than the risk factor – inherent to any OS upgrade – and concerns regarding how much it may be monitor your usage and tailor ads, I don’t think there’s a solid-gold reason not to accept the Windows 10 upgrade. If you’re tempted and have everything vital backed up somewhere, I’d say go for it. But go for it on your time, at your specific request, not because its makers want a big number to wave at investors and aren’t sufficiently concerned by how much blood gets spilt in order to achieve it.

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  1. trjp says:

    The solution to this is just to disable the Windows 10 'nag' icon - which you do by removing Windows Update KB3035583

    Goto Windows Update, find "Installed Updates" (bottom left of app in W7), find KB3035583 and remove it.

    You'll probably need to restart and the icon will be gone - you MAY need to force a Windows Update check and if KB3035583 reappears, right-click it and "Hide this Update" and it's gone forever (well, until they force it through another way)
  1. Matt_W says:

    Had a critical work PC auto-upgrade this weekend, which rendered an obscure driver inoperable and knocked a major system out of commission. I’d been sanguine about Microsoft for awhile now, but how do they not realize how dumb an idea this is?

    • Nomaki says:

      To be fair, work PCs really shouldn’t be auto installing updates when it feels like it, especially anything non-critical; but forcing these upgrades on unsuspecting people commercial and private is a really sucky thing to do.

      I upgraded a family’s PC to 10 more as a guinea-pig trial than anything, and had a huge array of issues from printer drivers being completely incompatible, networking issues and even little things like scrolling in open windows being messed up and janky; so I recommended to anyone asking to not upgrade until closer to the end of the free one-year period when things would be ironed out.

      Alas, its being shoved out with more regards to Microsoft’s adoption numbers than knowingly breaking thousands of people’s PCs.

      • trjp says:

        PCs running Windows Enterprise Edition don’t auto-update to Windows 10 – I guess that means someone had a ‘work PC’ running what’s essentially a consumer version of the OS?

        • slerbal says:

          Many small businesses run pro or even home versions of windows because of the costs and other administrative hassles involved in getting enterprise editions. I don;t think they should be punished for that. Just saying…

        • Chaoslord AJ says:

          Enterprise editions are volume licensed and won’t update for free.
          Also Windows domain PCs won’t download on their own.
          Also updates on work PCs would be controlled by WSUS or similar services.

      • brgillespie says:

        I highly recommend a completely clean installation, with a HDD format and everything. Windows 10 was incredibly unstable when I opted for the “upgrade” installation.

        • Sakkura says:

          Mine’s rock-solid half a year after upgrade. I was strongly considering a clean install, but considering it’s had literally zero stability issues I’ve given up on that idea.

      • gwathdring says:

        Should be mentioned that Windows 10 no longer allows you to control updates as strictly, even in enterprise versions. Group policy, at best, lets you delay updates. If there’s an Update Microsoft can’t or won’t stop from bricking your system where before you could let less vulnerable users take the hit and shelve the update, now you’re just on borrowed time.

        As far as I’m aware, home users do not have even this luxury, though there are some tricks they can use if they’re savvy involving debugging tools or the cellular internet feature.

        • gwathdring says:

          This is not directly relevant to you saying the OP’s computer shouldn’t be auto-updating, I just find it apt that Windows 10 refuses to let people use basic IT safety measures.

          As a further aside, I have had Windows auto-download updates and change the Update settings at odd intervals. It happens very, very rarely and I do not think it is malicious but it remains that sometimes Windows Update–on either client or server end–is buggy as heck. That Windows doesn’t protect you from an operating system installation with any more care than they protect you from an automatic driver update or a crucial security update is incredibly irresponsible on their part.

    • Parrilla says:

      Why on Earth would you have a “critical work PC” set to auto-update?

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      gritz says:

      I’m going to echo the other comments here: if you have a “critical” PC auto-updating, you already lost the battle.

      • Matt_W says:

        Thank you people who work in nice, neat offices with rows of cubicles all under one small IT group who can control everything.

        1) My workplace is a research facility with a hodgepodge of various organizations controlling various systems and labs and providing funding and equipment.
        2) There are at least 3 local IT groups with overlapping functions here: a local network support group, a company-wide IT support group, and a computer security group. Often there are systems with their own PCs controlled by a single on-site user. We make some attempt to track and control this, but there are many hundreds of computers on-site. It’s a big job.
        3) The PC in question has auto-updates disabled, but IT encourages users to keep their PCs up-to-date.
        4) The PC is using Windows Professional. It’s on a private network in the building with firewall access to the Internet, dedicated to a specific task in a specific system. It’s not under the control of the company-wide IT group, which does issue Enterprise licenses. But it’s also not a Personal edition.
        5) It absolutely updated over the weekend, by itself, with no user input. We were able to solve the driver issue with some tinkering, but it’s an extra unnecessary headache on top of everything else.

    • PaulE says:

      I have removed KB303553 from all our computers, but one day my wife’s machine changed to Only showing, or allowing, the installation of Windows 10, on her Windows 7 Pro system.
      I did “hide” all of the GWX files, and haven’t been bothered with that since, but on the other hand, we are not getting anymore Windows 7 Pro updates either!

  2. aircool says:

    My only reservation with Win10 at the moment is, as you mentioned, all the arsing about involved after any installation/re-installation of an OS and a worry about compatible software/hardware.

    Mind you, tack on almost 30 years PC experience and you can probably understand why I’m hesitant.

    • Shadow says:

      That’s pretty much my concern as well. I waited a long while before moving up from XP, skipping Vista entirely and only adopting 7 when it was reasonably mature.

      Likewise, I’ve skipped 8 entirely, being the inevitable Vista/Me of the generation. And as good as 10 might be, it needs time to mature. And the hardware/software ecosystem around it as well. A bunch of stuff still isn’t Windows 10-ready, so upgrading can have all sorts of bizarre unintended side effects.

      So for the time being, I’m holding off.

      • gwathdring says:

        Windows operating systems tend to have rough launches. 7 and ME were remarkable for different reasons. I’ve used every GUI-based Windows operating system except 2000, Windows 10 and Microsoft Bob. Vista had some driver compatibility issues, but those issues largely stuck around for 7. XP wasn’t perfect, either, it was just well supported afterwards unlike Vista and 8 which Microsoft dropped like a sack of rocks. 8.1 is largely stable and functions quite well and Windows 10 has all kinds of horrible decisions baked into it from forced driver updates which have already caused problems to various hardware incompatibilities that are sort of par for the course with any OS launch from Microsoft. All of who have been around Microsoft for a while have anecdotes about which operating system screwed the most pooches within a degree or two of separation from ourselves, but the narrative that Microsoft screw-ups skip every other operating system baffles me.

    • Jay Load says:

      If it helps, gentlebeings, I only had trouble actually installing Windows 10. It took about a dozen goes – and a fairly lengthy wait for the last few of those – before it worked. Each time had been a three hour bore fest, and I was pretty narked with it by the time it eventually installed.

      However, once on my machine I didn’t have to touch anything – it all just worked out of the box. No driver issues, no app issues, nothing. Been smooth sailing ever since.

  3. brgillespie says:

    For what it’s worth, if you decide to upgrade to Windows 10, save your personal stuff to a thumb drive and do a completely clean installation rather than the “upgrade” or whatever it’s called.

    My initial foray into Windows 10 was a disastrous, unstable mess rife with driver conflicts that regularly gave me BSODs.

    • brgillespie says:

      Forgot to add, post-HDD format, it’s been smooth sailing.

    • slerbal says:

      Always worth doing even if things go smoothly. It is always a good idea to have multiple backups :)

  4. Bing_oh says:

    And now I’m reminded why I have auto-update turned off on my home computer. It’s easier and safer for me to manually update than to trust Microsoft to pick and choose what it updates for me (too many time have I had updates cause more serious issues than what they’re “fixing”).

    I will have to make a mental note to make sure that the computers at my work have auto update set properly (ie, critical updates only). We have vital software that the developer has very specifically told us is NOT Windows 10 compatible…an unintentional Windows 10 update would cause havok.

  5. clive dunn says:

    It may have been a complete coincidence that installing Windows 10 completely bricked my hard drive but I turned what could have been a (unbacked-up) disaster into an opportunity to get a shiny new SSD and have a nice clean desktop, at least for a few weeks. It’s amazing how much crap you accumulate!
    I have advised all my (elderly) IT dependants to upgrade because they’re gonna have to eventually and because (in my experience) Windows 10 runs a bit better. My brother hates it though (but then he hates everything new)

    • orionite says:

      I had upgraded my work laptop from 8.1 to 10, which made a lot of sense. I tried to do the same for my gaming PC from 7 to 10 and it seemed to be fine for about a week. Then it got stuck on the welcome screen. Spent about a day trying to fix it and ended up having to format my boot drive and reinstall windows 7. Since there are virtually no games out there that take advantage of DX12, I think I will stick to a working system.

  6. Kodaemon says:

    One of my lecturers got a horrendous phone bill since he was using his cellphone as an internet tether for his laptop while MS sneakily downloaded Win 10. Phone company was surprisingly understanding.

    • gwathdring says:

      Their IT department has likely been fielding all kinds of Windows 10 related crap on the back-end, too. :P

  7. trjp says:

    The solution to this is just to disable the Windows 10 ‘nag’ icon – which you do by removing Windows Update KB3035583

    Goto Windows Update, find “Installed Updates” (bottom left of app in W7), find KB3035583 and remove it.

    You’ll probably need to restart and the icon will be gone – you MAY need to force a Windows Update check and if KB3035583 reappears, right-click it and “Hide this Update” and it’s gone forever (well, until they force it through another way)

    • trjp says:

      I should qualify that by saying the only PCs I’ve seen “auto-update” were those which had this icon left and that it does seem to increase it’s level of ‘nagging’ as time passes.

      You should still be vigilant of what’s Windows Update is asking to install – you have that luxury on Win7/8 so use it.

      Win10 does Windows Update differently – it bundles them up into larger (and slower) bunches and it gives you very little choice about what it includes/does

      A bit like the US Congress, they put little things you don’t want (like reversing all the privacy disabling tools) into a stack of updates which includes essential security fixes…

      MS have taken a weird route with W10 – when it works, it’s like a great room-mate but it has the air of someone who will, sooner or later, steal all your stuff and run-off!

      • Mokinokaro says:

        The privacy settings thing is a bug that happened in iirc two updates that later were reissued with a fix. Unfortunately that of course didn’t help those who had the update already downloaded.

        Microsoft is supposed to revamp the privacy settings to give more user control in an update but they gave no timeframe.

        • elvirais says:

          As a software developer… it’s pretty hard to “accidentally” switch back all the privacy settings to the worst setting again. That’s more likely not a bug but intentional.

      • Karaethon says:

        I just reinstalled my windows 7 (old had gotten messy) and ended up with the icon and windows update arbitrarily staring to download win 10 on his own!
        Took a while but finallly managed to get it under control with GWX Control Panel, and this guide:
        Seems fine for now but I suspect I’ll need to check every future update for it to stick.

        • Karaethon says:

          hurgh sorry nob html tags….well the link works as intended

    • Rao Dao Zao says:

      One point I’d like to add is that they seem to be able to sneakily undo the “hide this update” option — I have had to uninstall and re-hide the nag at least three times. I do manual updates and it still managed to slip through the cracks. :(

    • Det. Bullock says:

      That naggin thing was getting on my nerves.

    • Askis says:

      There’s also GWX Control Panel, a program that allows you to easily disable the Win10 Icon, automated Upgrades and delete the download folder, if it exists.

      • Caiman says:

        +1 to this, was recommended to me from elsewhere and it works as advertised, quick and simple. It’s like using Windows 7 back in 2014 again.

    • ElementalAlchemist says:

      Hiding updates is a short term solution. MS has already unhidden/restored a number of Windows 10 nagware and related updates. A more reliable solution is a registry edit. Copy and paste this into a text file, save it as xxx.reg and double click it, agreeing when it asks if you want to add it to the registry.

      Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00




      • gwathdring says:

        If you have the patience, though, keeping a list of bad updates and disabling auto-updating is advised even with this registry edit.

        Many updates are unnecessary for your particular setup–even some Recommended updates. Occasionally a security update will come bundled with unfortunate nonsense too though it is more unusual. Bleeping Computer has a Windows Update Monitoring thread I rather like and skimming the KB articles is always a good idea.

        This update is not the only Win 10 related problem child but, as you say, they often re-release updates which revokes their being hidden. Sometimes they’ll even change the KB number! I think the best policy for anyone who can spare the time is to assess individual updates, however cursorily. Failing that, yours is an excellent solution to this particular problem. :)

        • ElementalAlchemist says:

          Indeed, I wasn’t advocating not checking through updates and manually hiding/disabling the dodgy ones, I was just suggesting that a one-time hiding of a single update is insufficient to prevent a possible stealth 10 upgrade.

      • Harvey says:

        Goodness, I screwed up my link somehow…. the program is called GWX Control Panel.

    • gwathdring says:

      Not just until they sneak it through another way–periodically they will re-release exactly that update with exactly that KB number. :P

    • BenWH says:

      There’s a second KB to get rid of for windows 7, and you’ll also want to get rid of the hidden $windows folder if it already downloaded, else the downloaded still comes back and does it’s dirty business. The GWX control panel I would also recommend as the only really permanent fix I have found – and even then I found my settings got changed. Seriously, the win 10 installer is like a virus.

  8. Assirra says:

    Everyone that does not want windows 10 at this point should straight up disable the update service.
    It is the easiest way and unless MS finds a way to enable it some way, there is zero chance you will be caught off guard.

    • Don Reba says:

      That’s what I had to do on Windows 10, eventually. It thinks restarting my computer at night is an ok thing to do, lost work be damned.

    • Malcolm says:

      Also, when your computer gets completely hosed by a virus you can install Windows 10 from scratch without needing to worry about data loss.

  9. kael13 says:

    I upgraded around August last year. A couple of months to iron out the most pressing issues. I mean, it had already been in beta for yonks.
    And it’s been fantastic. I disabled all the tracking malarky, all the embedded apps bollocks and a quick gpedit to stop the updater pestering me, so I can run Windows Update in my own time.

    Other than my soundcard, the manufacturer of which went bust around the time Windows 8 was released. I think it was electrically on the way out too, however. I pulled it out and got an external DAC and amp to replace it.

    Sometimes I feel the people who desperately hold on to their ancient operating systems, refusing to upgrade, are the same people who sneer through the curtains at their neighbour every time said neighbour decides to do some landscaping or paint the shed.

    • Ieolus says:

      Not sure how you can say that with a straight face, with MS’s history of OS fiascoes. Need I remind you of Windows ME, Windows Vista, Windows 8.0? That list isn’t comprehensive, just the most disastrous of the bunch.

      • Mokinokaro says:

        98 was actually awful before service pack 2.

        Heck even xp had tons of technical issues at launch.

      • Don Reba says:

        Vista was ok. 7 was just a small face-lift for Vista. It was successful because Vista took the brunt of breaking in the new driver model.

        • LionsPhil says:

          The face-lifts were important, though; they made UAC a fair bit smarter about not asking you “um, duh” questions, and only asking more important ones like “look, mate, you just downloaded a random unsigned executable while drunk and it’s trying to escalate to admin priviledges, are you sure this is what you want?”

          IIRC there was a also a fairly substantial rearchitect around DWM to make it more efficient, because they’ve overestimated hardware capabilities in Vista. (A trend which has strangely continued in 8, against technological progress, by neutering Aero.)

          • Mokinokaro says:

            Windows 7 really was a giant service pack, though a very necessary one.

            It was basically Vista Second Edition, but Microsoft wisely wanted to distance it from that name.

          • Don Reba says:

            If they somehow switched release dates, 7 would have been derided for performance and driver problems, and Vista would have been met as a slightly ugly and clumsy but stable system.

    • Shadow says:

      Windows 7 is hardly ancient. We’re not talking about the last days of Windows XP support, in which some users still trenchantly clung to it.

      Microsoft seems to be hellbent on rushing Windows 10’s deployment, yet the OS is hardly mature. Not to mention hardware and software in general is nowhere near used to it at this point. Issues are cropping up every day, and there’s plenty of reports of people having all sorts of problems upgrading.

      So yeah, overall it’s a bit early to be calling the cautious luddites.

    • BenWH says:

      Or maybe those who build, run or otherwise have software that doesn’t run on Win 10? Or old hardware? Just a couple of alternative thoughts…

    • Universal Quitter says:

      Interesting analogy, but I rarely deadline my house’s plumbing while trimming my grapes and building a new trellis.

      Operating systems on the other hand.

  10. fco says:

    Sunday lunch rant: “Windows 10.” From my father. ‘Where the hell is my solitaire?’ he wanted to know

  11. Hobbes says:

    The sysadmin community pretty much universally treats Win 10 as malware, and for good reason. It’s a bastard which has too many ideas of its’ own about how it wants to run things even at an enterprise level (which is bad, an Operating System shouldn’t be thinking it knows more than the admin does about what processes said admin should and shouldn’t be able to terminate for example).

    Right now there’s few companies outside the US who are even countenancing the concept of Windows 10, most are happy with Windows 7 because it -works- and for admins, it doesn’t get in the way of the smooth running of the business. Most of the software JUST got moved over from XP in a lot of cases, getting them to move from 7 to 10 is going to be like prying limpets off of a hull of a boat with your bare fingers.

    As for my own experiences around the home? No. I wouldn’t even recommend 10 to my worst enemies. I gave it a go on my gaming rig and went hurtling back to 7 after twelve weeks. It was *that bad*. I despised the way Microsoft seemed to think they knew better than I did about my own goddamn system, I despised their attempts to lock down access to my system and my ability to control what does and does not run on it, I despised their shitty tracking systems that took work in regedit and GPOEdit to unfuck, I despised the fact they were insistent I have some kind of cloud crap tying in to my system (NO I DO NOT FUCKING WANT YOUR GODDAMN CLOUD STORAGE, DROPBOX IS FINE THANK YOU VERY FUCKING MUCH).

    The final straw came when parts of the control panel locked down because of some bug which came about because malware (Baidu) snuck in as I was getting most of the core stuff set up and Microsoft Edge turns out to be just as shite at sandboxing as Internet Explorer ever has. Unfucking that was just one effort piled upon effort too much for my taste. The system never ran quite how I wanted it despite much tinkering.

    So here I am, back on 7, and guess what? I’m back to insanely fast boot times, a system where I CAN KILL PROCESSES WHEN I NEED TO KILL SPECIFIC PROCESSES, and where I can control the userspace how I see fit. All without any of the bugs or bollocks that 10 foisted upon me. Bliss.

    Fuck you Windows 10. Fuck you forever. Sincerely, a royally pissed off old Tiger and ex-Cisco admin.

    • Babymech says:

      Malware ‘snuck in’?

      • Hobbes says:

        Yes, sourceforge as it turns out isn’t exactly reliable any longer. More fool me for thinking it was *grumble*

        • silentdan says:

          Sourceforge betrayed the community some time ago. For what it’s worth, I missed that memo as well, and I consider myself fairly plugged-in to these sorts of things. RIP Sourceforge, long live GitHub.

        • Babymech says:

          I don’t know if W10 can be blamed for that – I’ve kept three W10-machines malware-free since early in the W10-beta, and I’m pretty much an idiot. Though I do know how to use the W10 task manager to shut down individual processes.

        • Hobbes says:

          You can’t shut down every process via the W10 task manager, or to be specific, you can’t shut down -any- process you like if Windows decides it has elevated status. It will return “access denied” if that’s the case. For those you need to drop to the command line and issue a kill command (win 10 has one) and even THAT isn’t 100% reliable.

          The Edge browser is utterly leaky in terms of browser stability, I can promise you that (and when I ran chrome it ran at a fraction of the speed that it did on 7, god knows why), as is Windows 10, security wise I can keep Win 7 entirely sterile without any trouble at all, Windows 10 however is a bastard to keep clean even with good data hygiene practices by virtue of the fact that Windows 10 itself is inherently designed to push through spyware and malware and thus can be exploited by other parties, not to mention the fact that the Windows App Store is about as useful as tits on a fish (no, seriously, clone versions of legitimate apps pop up there with scary regularity and they’re basically trojan vectors for malware as well).

          Long story short? I’d not go near 10, nor recommend 10 to anyone. Not even someone I hated. I’m not that evil, and nobody deserves the festering pile of fungal rot that is Windows 10 as it stands.

          • Babymech says:

            Like I said, I’m pretty much an idiot, and the circle of computers that I have power over is pretty much limited to 15 or so machines… but I treat Windows 10 like any other update – I recommend people install it when it’s available, and I don’t recommend that they suddenly start using Microsoft’s browers or app stores. I’m sure you’re right about the app store and Edge – but W10 never made me use either of those for either work or pleasure.

            My sample size is ridiculously limited and I really don’t know what I’m doing, but I’m taken aback by how angry people are getting. If Microsoft had called it W8 Service Pack 3, would everyone have been as upset?

          • Hobbes says:

            Yes, yes you are an idiot. Clearly you’ve never had to deal with enterprise class customers who run legacy systems with flaky code that’s clinging on by its’ fingernails and running on the last system that runs say, windows 3.1 (yes, I’ve experienced that) and thus has to be maintained because restructuring the said system would be a mucking out of the stables that nobody looks forward to.

            Or perhaps you’d like to take a look at all the Point of Sale terminals that auto default to full screen but still run with Windows update on recommended settings so they are kept up to date with all the important patches, a lot of which are NOT on VLA versions of windows because, and get this, they’re programmed by small outfits for mom and pop stores. Not everyone can afford the latest and greatest, hell, half of the software is usually coded by college or uni students for their coursework projects at the SOHO level.

            Then there’s the legions of unwashed who are quite happy on whatever operating system they’ve got used to and really don’t want to be forcibly moved onto the latest and greatest(tm) operating system that Microsoft wants to stuff down their throats, a lot of people are quite happy using their computers for filing their accounts and playing freecell and that’s about it. They don’t want the hassle of a major OS overhaul (which in the bulk of cases Windows 10 invariably is).

            Just because YOU have had the good fortune to have a good experience, a lot of people won’t, and for every person that can and does navigate the upgrade process smoothly, there will be another who will lose a nights’ sleep because perhaps their accounting software no longer works with Windows 10, or perhaps their coursework got munched by the infamous profile bug, or the update corrupts and you wind up with a bootloop and then someone like me gets called in, fuelled up with Red Bull and has to untangle the hell that Redmond has unleashed.

            These days I’m old and ill and thus for the few friends I do it for, it’s a free service these days, but back when I was charging to unpick some of these kinds of horrors, I would look upon these kinds of snafus with the kind of glee which would mean “OVERTIME AND UNSOCIABLE HOURS CLAUSES HERE I COME!!!”, at which point the accounts department would hyperventilate and have to lock themselves away for fear that the knowledge of me working weekends and subsequent time billed would rip the bottom out of the IT budget.

            … ahh, the good old days *wistful*

          • Babymech says:

            @Hobbes “Yes, yes you are an idiot. Clearly you’ve never had to deal with enterprise class customers who run legacy systems”

            …If that’s your criterion for what constitutes an idiot, you have a lot of people to get to shouting at.

            Just because you had the bad fortune to have a bad experience doesn’t make this the Y2K bug of 2015-2016. People have always had difficulties with the closest thing we have to a ubiquitous OS, but to have scare articles like this one, and people like you making up stuff about property law out of the blue, seems like it should have taken something more menacing than this drawn-out upgrade program.

            Oh well – I’m happy that my W10 experience didn’t cause any problems I was unable to fix, and I’m mildly sad that your W10 experience made you mildly upset. I don’t think any more anecdotal evidence on my side or generalizations about how much the great unwashed hate W10 will change anything.

    • Chaoslord AJ says:

      Rolling out the first W10 machines for extra-network-users in the company now: admin nightmare.
      Don’t know why they hate enterprise IT so much. It’s not like home users will return to Windows desktop any time soon (except us gamers), those are happy with Apples and Androids.

      • Mokinokaro says:

        Apple is still less than 10% of the market share.

        Lots of home windows users out there that aren’t gamers.

  12. mathead says:

    Had it on my PC twice and windows 10 broke twice without me doing anything funny. The OS is just horribly unfinished and looks terrible with its inconsistent style mix and horrible fonts. I really hate, hate, hate it and the way Microsoft pushes this OS on its users. I use my PC for gaming only and win7 works fine, thank you. I’m a consumer who likes to choose what he buys and if I want to run Windows 95 or XP, it’s my problem. Can hardly say how mad all this makes me.

  13. MadTinkerer says:

    True fact:

    My current screensaver is the standard Windows 7 3D Text. The custom text I’m using is “Not Windows 10”.

    I have no intention of making my screensaver a liar.

  14. PinkSmoke says:

    Yep I can confirm Microsoft is doing this, I left my computer on and came back half an hour later to find it upgrading to Windows 10. Couldn’t do anything and just had to wait ages before being able to use it again and check it was all ok. I was thinking of probably doing it at some point but wow I still can’t believe the audacity. I am surprised auto-installation of a new OS without consent is not criminal in some way.

  15. c-Row says:

    No issues so far on my home gaming setup other than having to reinstall the drivers of our HP Wifi printer to get rid of a nagging popup which appeared every 5 minutes.

    Forcing the upgrade upon users is still a huge no-go, though.

  16. Premium User Badge

    Philopoemen says:

    I’m pretty much exclusively a laptop user, and was stuck using /couldn’t be arsed changing Windows 8.1

    I upgraded – not a clean install – on two of my laptops, and after disabling the tracking stuff, have been quite happy with 10. It’s faster, and cleaner than 8.1.

    I can imagine going from 7 to 10 would be hard, but going from 8/8.1 to 10 was a no-brainer.

    • Sandepande says:

      8.1 upgrades much better than 7. 8 is quite rate so no experience with that. And I’d change to Win 10 just for the provisioning which is lovely.

    • NZLion says:

      I disagree, depending on your device.
      I don’t want my Surface3 on Win10 as I just find 8.1 a much more touch-friendly OS. I am happy with 10 on my gaming PC, but that was a clean install as (like every in-place upgrade I’ve ever seen) my machine was left a partially-functioning mess after upgrading.

      Tablet mode in 10 is some kind of cruel joke that makes any device unusable, IMO.

  17. alw says:

    I’m probably missing something here, but how is it even legal for Microsoft to change a customer’s product after sale?

    Feels a bit like someone coming to my house and replacing my guitar with a newer one or something :(

    • Mokinokaro says:

      It’s as legal as patches delivered through steam or origin.

      The time to fight mandatory automatic updates has long passed. We lost.

      • Mokinokaro says:

        Also any online connected service or device that won’t let you use it without the latest updates.

        • alw says:

          It isn’t really the same though, is it? I mean, its not just patching something or adding a couple of new features, it’s changing the product I bought into another product.

      • Premium User Badge

        Awesomeclaw says:

        IIRC, Windows 10 has a very different privacy policy and EULA to previous versions of Windows.

        • Mokinokaro says:

          It actually has two. One is pretty much the same as the old one.

          The other has the privacy changes and is a generic one Microsoft uses for all their online services.

      • Archonsod says:

        We could use the same crap they’ve been foisting upon us for years. Send Microsoft an email with your EULA agreement and notification that by installing their software on your machine they agree to the terms and conditions. Just remember to include a multi-million per hour fee for licensing your PC. Wait for the update to install, then start sending them the bill….

  18. draglikepull says:

    It seems to me that there’s a pretty simple question at the heart of this: do I own my computer?

    I paid for my hard drive. I paid for Windows 7. It seems fairly straight-forward to me that Microsoft should have no ability to over-ride a program I paid for on a HD I paid for without my permission. That’s fairly basic property rights.

    I’m sure Microsoft would say that somewhere in some terms of service I agreed to let them do whatever the hell they want in Windows Update and I have no right to complaint if they wipe out the operating system that I paid for and replace it with one I didn’t ask for and don’t want, but as far as I’m concerned that’s BS. It’s my computer, not Microsoft’s, and they shouldn’t be able to make such major modifications to it without my permission.

    • Babymech says:

      I don’t know if you care, or if you just want to vent, but this is not a ‘simple property issue’ and nothing Microsoft has done has actually changed anything in terms of your ownership of your computer. But if you were just looking to shake your cane at the sky and damn the facts, I wholeheartedly support your right to do so.

      • Hobbes says:

        When a third party deliberately changes your operating system without your informed consent, I’d say that’s a property issue. Slipping it in as a “recommended update” is the roofie in the drink approach, it’s just… ugh. No. Moving to Windows 10 should be entirely opt-in only, a user should actively have to seek out the upgrade button and PRESS IT THEMSELVES.

        • Mokinokaro says:

          The reasonable approach would have been the pop up window but have it stop nagging once you dismissed it once or twice.

          Then having it pop up again say a month before the free upgrade expired.

          Microsoft has horribly bungled this part of the launch of a good OS.

        • silentdan says:

          “When a third party deliberately changes your operating system”

          Um, you’re the third party, dude. Windows isn’t yours, it’s Microsoft’s, and they have every right to change it without your knowledge or consent. You know which operating system you *do* own? Which OS no one’s allowed to change without your informed consent? It’s Linux. Your copy is *yours*, now and forever. I think that’s worth contemplating.

          • Babymech says:

            You’re selling Linux short. You license Linux just like you license Windows, except in Linux case you enter into GPLv2 or whatever version they’re up to. GPL is a fantastic legal construction and should not be swept under the rug.

          • silentdan says:

            @BabyMech You know, you’re right. For those who aren’t aware, the GPL, or GNU Public License, basically says that you have the right to modify the product, or not, entirely at your discretion, with one catch: if you distribute the modified product, you must do so under the GPL. In other words, you’re not able to restrict the freedom of others, just because you wrote some software. That’s awesome, and merits mention.

          • Hobbes says:

            @Babymech: You forget one thing. By forcing such a major upgrade through as a “recommended” upgrade which is generally placed in the automatic category, MS may be assuming liability for any fallout for potential SLA violations that come about due to their upgrade software failing to process correctly. It’s one thing for a user to initiate a major OS upgrade and for it to break, because at that point the fault clearly lies with the user or the customer, however, under these circumstances, the fault may not entirely lie with the customer.

            Microsoft may by virtue of their decision to elevate the priority of the update decide to assume liability for the effects of forcibly “patching” systems to Windows 10, even though said patch will create a mass of incompatibilities and inconsistencies, especially with legacy systems and SOHO installations which aren’t running VLA copies.

            That’s generally why MS never pushed the priority up, it was always left under optional so that way if it blew up in the customers face, Microsoft could say “we told you so” in the event of the software failing to well, work. Now there’s the very real prospect of a small business shutting down one night with one OS, and returning to work the next day to find Win 10 installing. If that was to cause irreparable damage to the company, this may shove the ball back into MS’s liability on account of them making it an automatic update.

            EULA provisions aside, there’s generally a common sense test that needs to be looked at when you do this kind of thing, and at least for small businesses who may not be on Enterprise versions because let’s face it, they may not have enough seats to warrant it, well, this may create havoc in those companies, and it would just need one or two of those to be say, small companies made up of lawyers and this could get ugly fast.

          • Shadow says:

            Obviously the worse alternative to Windows 10 as far as compatibility goes. I’d rather do my best to entrench myself in my Windows 7 than go Linux and lose compatibility with 70% of my software.

          • Babymech says:

            @Hobbe You are basically just saying that Microsoft assumes the same responsibility for this recommended upgrade as they do for any other recommended upgrade, and feel confident enough in W10 to recommend it. That doesn’t change anything, in terms of property or any other law – they’re no more or less responsible. What did I forget?

        • Babymech says:

          Well, no. I may be an idiot when it comes to computers, but I do know intellectual property and contract law (which this is – not traditional property law). You clearly don’t, which is literally fine, you have another background and profession and that’s terrific.

          The short story is that what MS is doing is perfectly legal and reasonable. If you want specifics, we would need to break down a number of misconceptions in a boring way, so stop reading here if you don’t want specifics.

          1. MS is not a third party here. You entered into a license agreement with MS – they are literally the second party to that agreement.
          2. There is no ‘informed consent’ requirement that goes so far as to require technical knowledge of an update. Automatic updates are
          perfectly legal even if hundreds of millions of users don’t know exactly what they’re getting.
          3. You don’t ‘own’ Windows, just like I don’t own the music I listen to, or the articles I read. You own your chair (most likely), but you license Windows. You already knew that, but that makes this not a simple property issue. It makes this an issue of what kind of contract you’ve entered into, and in some jurisdictions, what kinds of reasonable expectations you can have beyond the text of the contract(s).*

          In legal terms, you would be better of comparing this to your Netflix subscription, not your hardware ownership. You can expect to be allowed to use the service with minimal interruption, but you can’t decide what their programming should be or how long their back catalog should be available.

          I’m terribly sure you knew all this information already, but when you say this is a simple property issue, you’re just not putting the information you already have in the right order.

          *The unique and spectacularly interesting thing about this contract is Microsoft’s monopoly position in the ‘non-mobile OS’ space, however that’s defined nowadays. That can give you a bunch of extra rights, but it’s a much much more complex issue at that point.

          • draglikepull says:

            Whether the way Microsoft has structured its terms of service is legal isn’t particularly important to me. The law can be (and often is) wrong. What Microsoft is doing is certainly unethical, which is what I care about. If a person has paid for an operating system (or any program, for that matter), to replace it with a different one that they don’t want without their explicit permission is bullshit.

          • Babymech says:

            draglikepull – I’m certainly not here to tell you or anyone else what they should consider ethical or not.* It was just that you were saying this should be a simple property issue and I thought that was very odd thing to say.

            *I have a hard time, though, arguing for any kind of sharp ethical line between updating the workings of software, and updating the number that goes at the end of it. For the vast majority of end-users, they pretty much go on using W10 like they did W8 or W7, and I would say a large number of them don’t even know if their internet machine is using W10 or something else.

          • silentdan says:

            @draglikepull “What Microsoft is doing is certainly unethical, which is what I care about.”

            How much do you care? Clearly, you care enough to post a comment, and that’s a good start. Do you care enough to install Linux? Because if you do, and enough others do, then Microsoft’s ability to leverage their Windows monopoly weakens drastically. If you don’t care enough to install Linux, then you’re clearly unwilling to walk away from the table, which means Microsoft gets to dictate terms to you. And they’re only getting less bashful about doing so.

          • ElementalAlchemist says:

            What’s your take on the hypothetical scenario of MS AFK upgrading people to Windows 10 after the free upgrade period expires in a few months? Are people going to come back to their PC to find a pop-up saying “pay $10 a month to continue using Windows”? If we get into that sort of scenario (and really, would anyone put it past them?), surely that is well outside the bounds of whatever dubious legality resides in a EULA?

          • Babymech says:

            @ElementalAlchemist “Are people going to come back to their PC to find a pop-up saying “pay $10 a month to continue using Windows”?”

            I don’t know who this was for (damn you RPS forums) but my take is that this would land MS in much hotter water than they’re already in. The current upgrade system is pissing people off, but it doesn’t engage consumer rights associations or courts because MS can literally claim that they are giving their existing costumers updated functionality for free. I understand why PC users are particular about their software, but in any other industry, it would be hard to argue that this is a detriment for consumers.

            It’s much worse if something that was paid for as a one time licensing fee is unavoidably converted into a subscription service, shortly thereafter – it might not technically violate the most recent EULA, but there would be a much stronger consumer rights case. There’s no need for MS to do that – they know how to handle a transition from stand-alone license to a subscription model with their Office 365 model.

            It’s also very possible that Windows will never cost money again – that MS has decided to keep Windows permanently free of charge, in order to be able to bet harder on Cloud storage, application suites, games, and hardware.

          • Mokinokaro says:

            Microsoft is not going to make Windows a subscription service. It makes zero sense for them to do so and no store will sell a computer that requires a subscription.

            The simple fact is the free upgrade has a condition in that the license cannot be transferred to another device.

            Microsoft never made much money selling boxed copies to end users. Their money from Windows comes from manufacturers buying in bulk and that’s not going to change.

          • gwathdring says:

            I think you’re missing the forest for the trees a bit here. Those trees are important and interesting and not to be taken lightly.

            But “perfectly legal and reasonable” is not a legal claim. It is an ethical claim hiding next to a legal claim.

            The ethical claim is the primary point of friction.

          • gwathdring says:

            There is a property issue at stake, though I agree it isn’t simple.

            Going on about how licensed software works and such misses the point a bit. You’re saying that Windows is straightforwardly Microsoft’s property to do with as they please. But the trick is THAT’S not a simple property issue, either. In order to run a computer, a device I do own and that is my property, I need to install on it some sort of operating system. The necessity of that means that we cannot–either ethically or legally–entirely separate one from the other.

            Users are not entirely beholden to Microsoft’s every whim and nor is Microsoft restricted from messing with the user’s stuff. Negotiating that line is not a straightforward battle that has already been clearly fought and decided. It is a matter of ongoing precedent that involves not merely IP law but also civil rights, consumer protection legislation, monopoly regulations and so on and so forth.

            It might not be a simple property issue, but in this case that means you shouldn’t make it out to be a simple intellectual property issue either.

    • silentdan says:

      “no one should ever be recommending that anyone disable automatic updates. Major security issues get fixed”

      What am I more concerned about? A threat to my computer’s security from 3rd parties, or 1st? Once upon a time, it was madness to suggest that MS would do more harm to my machine than full-on malware. Now, I’m not so sure.

      I mean, if you use Windows generally, then yeah, protect yourself from malware over MS. But if you’re like me, and your only use for Windows is to run the Steam games that don’t run under Linux … remove the Windows Update service entirely. You’ll be fine. I haven’t installed a single update since SP1 on my 7 box, and nothing bad has happened.

  19. anHorse says:

    You know I have no objection to “upgrading to windows 10” but Microsoft’s actions sure put me off wanting to do it now.

  20. wcq says:

    I think we used to have a name for the type of program that shows ads, takes your personal information and does whatever it wants with your PC.

    I don’t think the name was ‘operating system’.

    • Mokinokaro says:

      1. Windows 10 itself does not have ads (outside of that very short lived Tomb Raider one that didn’t effect your system) but it does include the framework for apps to deliver advertising which tbh should be safer than having programs sneaking adware in themselves

      2. There is zero actual proof the privacy issues exist, just fearmongering created by the anti-Microsoft side of the Linux community. Microsoft is not helping their case by being cagey about telemetry data but no company reveals that stuff

      3. The way Windows 10 has been installed automatically in several waves now due to “bugs” speaks either of gross incompetence or minor malice. I’m not sure which would be worse

      • Babymech says:

        “3. The way Windows 10 has been installed automatically in several waves now due to “bugs” speaks either of gross incompetence or minor malice.”

        Or somebody having their bonus / salary raise / continued employment tied to a target entitled number of W10 users (maybe this is what you meant by minor malice)? If I trusted in the overall reliability of W10, and I knew that people could end up fired if we couldn’t push this meter (link to gosquared.com) above 20% by April – I would be tempted to push the update more aggressively.

        Disclaimer: I have no idea if Microsoft would allow a low adoption rate to impact its employees or not. It just seems like a possible explanation.

        • Mokinokaro says:

          That’s what I meant. These “mistakes” are happening so often that it makes you wonder.

          It doesn’t even have to be for nefarious reasons. The more people on Windows 10, the easier Microsoft has things support wise.

      • DFX2KX says:

        The privacy concerns come from just how much data gets sent to Microsoft, even with those features like Cortana turned off. and it shows your full name and email on the lock screen… I mean, I can violate your privacy with a 35mm MM camera from the 80’s. This is a post Snowden world, and the trust is just gone for a lot of folks.

        Personally? It’s the drivers that get me. All of that security-questionable stuff isn’t much worse then my cellphone. But darnit, My laptop’s Waccom screen worked fine consistantly in the beta, why in heck should it fail NOW. -_-

        Another thing that ticks me off, and the main reason that I’ve not moved yet is media center (I have a TV tuner in the desktop). I’ve got to set up a nice linux box for Kodi before I put this on 10 and stop using it for anything that matters.

  21. Mokinokaro says:

    What actually happened here is that Microsoft moved Windows 10 to a recommended update as they announced months ago.

    If you don’t want it switch windows to only download critical updates.

    • The First Door says:

      I can say from personal experience this isn’t all that is happening. They’ve also ‘accidentally’ pushed it out as an optional update which was ticked by default in the past, as happened to me:

      link to techtimes.com

      Also there are rumours all over the place (which, admittedly, Microsoft are currently denying) of people who’ve had it automatically start installing without asking, too. Which is a little hard to believe when, as I said up there, they’ve already ‘accidentally’ ticked it as an optional update, and they acknowledged that ‘a bug’ caused Windows 10 to automatically install for some people at the end of last year:

      link to forbes.com

      • Premium User Badge

        bonuswavepilot says:

        Dodgy as all this is, I suspect many (maybe even all?) of the folks complaining about it installing without asking may well have just clicked the popup to get it out of the way of whatever they were doing on their PC.

        Having worked in tech-support (God save me from ever going back there), I can attest that there are many, many folks around who will absolutely swear that they never clicked the very thing they just clicked without reading.

  22. The First Door says:

    Yeah, Microsoft wasted an entire work morning of mine by sneakily trying to install Windows 10 on my work machine. I rebooted, and it seemed to hang on an update for about 2 or 3 hours, until I gave up and turned it off. Turned out it was trying to install Windows 10 on the sly as it sneakily re-ticked the ‘optional’ update to Windows 10 for me. Microsoft have apparently since claimed this was a ‘mistake’, which it clearly only was once it backfired on them.

    I’ve also had a colleague who has updated repeatedly complain to me about the combination of the new Office and Windows 10. He’s had Office asking whether it was okay to send all of his Word documents to Microsoft to improve their spellchecker. He was a little peed off as he was writing a document about student’s disabilities, which is understandably highly confidential. At least it asked before doing that, though! The other complaint he has is the habit of Windows 10 just rebooting when it feels like, without saving your documents.

    So… yeah, Windows 10 can bugger off for a bit.

    • Mokinokaro says:

      Turn off recommended updates. Win10 is going to be one real soon.

      • The First Door says:

        I have turned them off. Note I said ‘optional’ update, not recommended, and also see my reply to your post.

      • Hobbes says:

        It already is >_<

        I've already locked out Win 10 from my system and told it to fuck right off in every way possible. Microsoft can fuck themselves with a short dick in a spiked bag over this. I've already fielded a whole bunch of panicked friends and it's not even dinner time.

        Today promises to be -fun-. *sound of party blower going PWEEEEEE*

        • LionsPhil says:

          Oh, if it’s got spikes, let’s not deny them a long one.

          I hate Microsoft for making it look like the future of the desktop might actually eventually be Linux. :P

  23. Kortney says:

    Look, I work as a PC tech. I’ve seen some weird driver issues with Windows 10 upgrades, especially on laptops. I disagree with making the Windows 10 upgrade a “Recommended” update if that causes it to automatic install. Windows 7 doesn’t hit the end of extended support until 2020, so you’ve got a few more years yet if you’re dead-set against it (or want to wait and just buy a made-for-10 PC instead of upgrading, which is totally fair).

    But for the love of God, no one should ever be recommending that anyone disable automatic updates. Major security issues get fixed in automatic updates. Set updates to “Download and ask me before installing” or even “Ask before downloading” if you must (and then, commit to actually looking at what updates are available and acting on them quickly), but don’t just turn off auto-update altogether and take that burden upon yourself. With Windows 7+, Microsoft seems to have finally figured out that high-priority updates should be delivered with, I don’t know, high priority. Don’t blow that by deciding that you’ll just check for updates yourself every couple of weeks.

    Or, you know, do that – that’s how I get paid, by fixing what happens afterwards. :)

    And for some anecdata: I’ve had nothing but good experiences with Windows 10, both for work-related purposes and for gaming. I wholeheartedly recommend the product, but generally recommend looking at computers sold with OEM Windows 10 installs (and the corresponding actually functioning drivers) over upgrading unless, like every other Windows upgrade, you want to take the chance of entering driver hell.

    • Hobbes says:

      My standing advice now is “Ask before downloading” and to consult with me before any update that isn’t marked critical is applied. So all recommended ones have to be checked BY HAND by going through their associated KB articles to make sure Microsoft isn’t trying to slip you a roofie. They’ve moved Windows 10 into the “recommended” bracket which means auto-update pushes Windows 10 through now.

      In short, MS is now sending you to sleep with Win 7/8 and making sure you wake up with Windows 10, which quietly abuses you in your sleep, and leaves you feeling dirty and confused in the morning.

    • Babymech says:

      Why is this not the promoted post? Why is this not the actual article?

      • Hobbes says:

        Because most people aren’t livin’ the dream of a working Windows 10 install like you. You might be the rare case where it works, but for most people it tends towards the fiery inferno end of the scale. There’s a good reason why a lot of people don’t WANT windows 10 and why Microsoft has resorted to the “Put a roofie in the updates” approach

        • Mokinokaro says:


          It’s actually likely working for the majority of users. Of course they won’t complain online if theyre happy.

          • Mokinokaro says:

            Also your repeated comparisons of an OS upgrade to date rape are incredibly offensive.

          • iainl says:

            I don’t know; it worked wonderfully for a couple of months with me, before a Windows Defender auto-update causes it to take 100% of disc usage for the first 10-15 minutes after login each time, and both my parents and my in-laws got stung by the decision to not carry forward any configuration settings from Windows 8 Mail to Windows 10 Mail, causing them to lose all of their emails.

            So in my experience it’s not “just working” for quite a big sample.

          • Babymech says:


            “in my experience it’s not “just working” for quite a big sample.”

            This is a good point – out of the 30-35 enthusiasts who actually use Windows, you’ve sampled somewhere between 14% and 16%. If we round that off it’s 15% of the entire user base, and they all experience problems. That’s pretty damning, and if Microsoft ever wants Windows to stop being a niche product, I think they need to step up.

    • Einsammler says:

      Curiously, my computer stopped asking to install updates at some point, despite having “ask me to install” selected. I discovered this when I upgraded my 3D card and it took 3 hours to reboot with all the accumulated updates.

      • LionsPhil says:

        Yeah, they have done an absolute number on Windows Update recently.

        After the last optional update to Windows Update, they seem to have finally fixed its service pegging at 100% for an hour while it churns through trying to work out what’s available, so it’s now time to stop applying any more of those.

        My update policy used to be “read everything optional and filter out anything obviously undesirable”, then “read everything and only include fixes I need”; at the rate they’re stripping useful information from KB articles, soon it’s going to just have to be “only ones marked as security”.

        …they wouldn’t put the upgrade to 10 as an Important security update, would they?

        …would they?

        • pepperfez says:


    • Premium User Badge

      bonuswavepilot says:

      Well, here’s another anecdotal data point… (Yeah, I know that’s a contradiction in terms).

      Have to use 10 at work, and I have *mostly* found it to be reasonable enough, although this week I have come in twice to find that while in sleep mode it has shut down all of my applications without saving any work, which is irritating.

  24. w0bbl3r says:

    I honestly am flabbergasted how dull people are these days. PC gamers at this.
    This is microsoft. MICROSOFT. And you all think they are giving away their latest OS? Really? In such a nasty, snide, under-handed and sneaky way to “offer” a “free upgrade” they are giving away their latest OS?

    Wake up people. This OS is microsofts plan to monopolise the PC market completely, from gaming to drivers to any kind of software you might want to install and use. They want their cut of it all, and having everyone on this horrific new OS is their way of doing it, and conning you all into installing it “for free” (or just sneakily installing it onto your system if you take your eyes off the screen for 10 minutes) is their way of making sure they maximise coverage of the whole shebang.

    My next OS upgrade will be to either steamOS or linux (the same thing really), hopefully when that time comes linux will have almost full support for games and I won’t have any problems (or not too many problems anyway).

    There is no way I will fall for a company as untrustworthy (totally proven to be untrustworthy for years and years now) as MS suddenly saying “oh we love PC gaming now…. here we are giving away our new OS for free, no strings attached (but don’t trip over those unrelated strings right there)”.

    Anyone who falls for this deserves what they get in another couple of years when MS close the whole system down so that they have full control of your PC as if it’s an XBoner

    • Mokinokaro says:

      Microsoft will never close down the system. Even they know that’s suicide. A lot of Windows bugs and exploits exist because Microsoft has to support legacy software.

      If youre really going the Linux route stay the hell away from steamOS as it’s half assed like most of Valves latest projects.

      I’d highly recommend Mint or Ubuntu instead as they’re better with standards and have much more welcoming communities than a lot of the other distros.

      • LionsPhil says:

        Mint are hilariously incompetent and recently got their downloads hijacked via a WordPress install.

        Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora. Stick with the boring old middle-of-the-road distros that have already earnt their scar tissue (and built up a huge bunch of Google results for the inevitable problems).

        • Mokinokaro says:

          I’d even be wary of Ubuntu after they were distributing Amazon spyware with it (they’ve stopped, but still…)

          Debian and Fedora are both quite rock solid, though not quite as user friendly. I also recommend staying as far as possible from the official Debian forums as it’s full of the most elitist and unhelpful Linux types.

    • Chaoslord AJ says:

      It’s the same way “free” as Android or “free” game key promotions are.
      You pay with your personal data and for further services like Office.
      Microsoft now joins the mobile computing hype train and think they can beat the rest at their own game with all those synced profile goodies.

    • pepperfez says:

      PC gamers at this.

      Video-gamers, as a population, tend to be surprisingly pro-corporate/anti-consumer.

  25. Chaoslord AJ says:

    My dad hates it, my users hate it, my workmates hate it, my mom doesn’t care and I can just handle it – not recommended.

    However that’s just the last “big” Windows version, the Windows to end all Windows (literally I dare guess) so to have newest hardware work as intended it’s a must, older hardware might suffer.
    Works best with a touchscreen, no keyboard and Microsoft “spy on me” account.

    • Chaoslord AJ says:

      Also if you install Windows 10, turn of all spying options instead of “default” in the beginning, disable sharing yyour updates with the whole Internet, turn off default syncing to onedrive.
      Also on the W10 professional edition turn “delay upgrades” on so new builds will be tested on the home edition users first instead of having the several gig-upgrades force-installed on you.

    • Mokinokaro says:

      And everyone hated Windows 95. And Xp. And even 7.

      People hate change but within a year or two they’ll get used to it. The same cycle happens with every bigger Windows revamp

      • Chaoslord AJ says:

        Yeah actually noone I know including me “hated” Windows 7 because it’s on all accounts better than the direct predecessor.

        You omitted Vista from your list because it was always and ever hated by the users and Microsoft tries to destroy all stone slates bearing its name.

        Also Windows 95 (coming from broken 3.1) introduced new technology and was widely appreciated.

        8.0 also is generally still disliked, my 8.1 manages to look and work like 7 most of the time.

        I get it however there’s no choice in the long run not to upgrade to W10 and make peace somehow. Only press and payed tech evangelists “love” it however. I never met a real-life person stating how much they like it.

        • anHorse says:

          Best I’ve got is “it’s basically the same as 7”, which isn’t enough to make me want to lose control of updates over.

          I wouldn’t bother arguing too much with that guy though, he’s a true believer

          • Mokinokaro says:

            “true believer” = the nonsense Linux zealots use to dismiss all fair criticism of their position

            I didn’t mention Vista or 8 because they truly deserved the hate.

            But yes there was tons of hate against Windows any time Microsoft changed the UI. Even in minor ways

          • Mokinokaro says:

            98 was also really hated at launch due to bugs. It took two service packs to become the OS people remember fondly. Xp took one or two.

            Rough launches are the norm for Microsoft. Seven was an exception.

      • pepperfez says:

        I notice Vista isn’t on your list…

        • Mokinokaro says:

          Vista and 8 were actual screw ups.

          Though the main issue with Vista was really poor optimization. If you had the right hardware it was fine.

          • pepperfez says:

            So you’re saying it’s irrational to be wary of new versions of Windows because there’s a 60% chance they’ll turn out to be good — that’s not actually great odds!

          • Mokinokaro says:

            About the same odds you’d get with adopting a completely new version of any piece of software.

            Do I really need to mention Linux distro updates that borked my systems before?

          • Hobbes says:

            Whereas Windows 10 has been in general a turgid piece of garbage regardless. People who enjoy it seem to have had the good fortune of avoiding the many horror stories, more power to them. I wish them all the luck in the world, but I won’t be going near Win 10, I’ve tried it, I’ve had my horror stories, and I’m not going near it for another four years – minimum.

          • Premium User Badge

            Philopoemen says:

            UAC was the bane of Vista. And the graphical processing hog that was Aero.

      • fish99 says:

        Actually I remember a large majority being positive about Win 7 from day one.

        • Mokinokaro says:

          You remember incorrectly. people absolutely hated the aero UI of 7.

          Just as usual people got used to it. It helped that the underlying OS was quite solid (but so is 8 under the horrible metro)

          • Hobbes says:

            Orly, reviews for Win 7 were virtually glowing, critical reception was highly positive, and user reception was by and large excellent. Methinks you need to recheck your facts.

          • LionsPhil says:

            You’ve apparently merged Vista and 7 in your head. By 7 they’d improved DWM to not be such a pig, hardware had got better anyway, and people had cooled off from it not being the first time ’round.

            Mind you, you’ve also ignored 98, ME, and 8, so I think you’re just trying to desperately form support for an argument you’ve decided on that isn’t actually supportable by the reality.

          • Mokinokaro says:

            As mentioned above, I left ME and 8 out because they were 100% lemons that I wouldn’t argue in favor of.

            I did mention 98 and how it was quite rough before the second service pack/second edition.

            You seem to the one trying to force a narrative on me.

          • LionsPhil says:

            “Everyone hates every Windows release.”

            “Except I’ve left out the ones they really hated.”

            Okay. Guess which set 10 is falling into?

          • Mokinokaro says:

            Thanks for proving my point.

            The chips are far, far from settled with Windows 10. It’s very much reminding me of 98, actually where it was shoved out the door way too early but became a great OS after Microsoft spent over a year fixing it up.

        • Mokinokaro says:

          There was a lot of talk especially among gamers of aero wasting precious system resources.

          As for reviews most reviews of Windows 10 are quite positive. Don’t trust professional reviews.

      • Chillicothe says:

        Yes, but the difference there is that we payed for 95, 98, et al, we don’t for 10.

        We are not their customers with 10, we are their product, and with it, comes a whole new take on the MS -> PC user relationship that isn’t a new field like smartphones.

        • Mokinokaro says:

          I LOVE this argument because it’s always parroted by a Linux user in one of these threads.

          Linux is free. Does that make you Linus Torvald’s product?

          • Chillicothe says:

            I’m not a linux user.

            That’s merely the beginning of the raging blindfiring at potential hits, sadly. Perhaps a few more of those and I’ll quieten down…

      • Don Reba says:

        Windows 95 is the one for which people camped out in front of the store to save their place in line, the way people do for Apple products. It was Microsoft’s most successful OS.

    • Mokinokaro says:

      You know how I can tell you haven’t really used Windows 10?

      Touchscreen support is actually much worse than 8 and 10 is fine for mouse and keyboard

  26. Jack_Empty says:

    Im not super PC literate so when I got 10 I could never get it to not auto update and then restart my PC at 4 in the morning. So I unupgraded. I use my PC for illustration and the idea that I might neglect to save before going to bed and loose work was horrifying. Seemed you could alter this on professional versions but I couldnt get it to stop myself, as stated I’m not a PC whizz so hate fiddeling with my reg. Is this still an issue? Also who uses Cortana? I’m already at my PC so I can just google it normally.

  27. kud13 says:

    I killed GWX with extreme prejudice on my home PCS (both running 7).

    Last week it started showing up on my work office PC. Every time I see it, I kill the process in Task Manager, but I don’t have the permissions

    Guess i’ll have to change update settings, since I often forget to turn it off and only do so over the weekend

    • Mokinokaro says:

      If you’re on a domain talk to the admins. It can be completely locked out through policy settings.

  28. amateurviking says:

    Oh god Windows 10 auto-downloaded on my Dad’s computer and he lost all his FreeCell saves. He was FURIOUS.

  29. Premium User Badge

    Vandelay says:

    So, am I the only person who still hasn’t received a single message about updating to Win 10? I even had some automatic updates download the other day with nothing.

    I’m fairly indifferent about updating. I was going to do it following an upgrade, but I’ve put that on hold for the time being. It sounds fine, but nothing particularly worthwhile above Win 7 or worth the potential hassle of getting everything working that inevitably happens with an OS upgrade.

  30. Atomica says:

    I upgraded my desktop to Windows 10 pretty much the next day it was released in July 2015. Installed without any issues and even my old Logitech webcam from 2005 works fine.

    I then installed it on a Toshiba laptop (no issues) a Dell laptop (a minor issue with the audio jack sense) and a Lenovo laptop (no problems).

    In everyday use I’d say it feels quicker than Windows 7, which I had before. Games mostly work fine and the only ones that don’t are those that rely on the SecuRom DRM on DVDs. I don’t mind that too much. In general, if things work on Windows 8.1, they work on Windows 10. Drivers for 8.1 also seem to work ok. The caveat is older drivers for Vista, which don’t work.

    But when a piece of hardware gets to 10+ years old and refuses to work I don’t mind so much. At that point I usually grumble because it’s a piece of the furniture, but that’s life. Things change. Windows 10 is free. Apple does the same thing with OS X upgrades these days and I don’t recall seeing so much ill will towards them.

    • pepperfez says:

      Giving up control of your operating system has always been an accepted part of the Apple Experience. For Windows users it comes as a shock.

      • LionsPhil says:

        Apple balance it out by having the experience basically work. And not just being a platform for ads and data-mining.

        Admittedly I haven’t run a version of OS X new enough to force their Store into the world.

        • Mokinokaro says:

          It “basically works” because it’s heavily locked down. There’s advantages and disadvantages to that approach.

          People can claim Windows 10 is some locked console box system, but it’s got nothing on a lot of Apple systems.

          I also love how there’s crazy conspiracy theories about Microsoft wanting to turn PCs into closed systems when Apple had their app store first and, as the vendor of the hardware, could lock things down far, far easier.

          They’d probably even get away with it due to the much smaller program libtary (far easier to get the corporate critical stuff into their store) than all the customized client-specific stuff out there for Windows that Microsoft has to do their best to keep viable.

          Not that I actually expect Microsoft OR Apple to make such a move. It would tick off a huge portion of their business clients and that’s where they get the majority of their computer money.

  31. fish99 says:

    That’s about the 5th negative story RPS has posted about W10 while still claiming it’s the best windows ever :p

    • Mokinokaro says:

      They’re trying to appeal to both sides.

      The actual OS is pretty solid (controversial aesthetics and completely unproven privacy issues aside) but the way Microsoft is pushing it is something they need to be called out on.

      • Hobbes says:

        The OS is solid in the Mac way of “We’ll lock down control of lots of things and only give you control of the things we feel like giving you control of”, and that applies right the way up to enterprise level. There’s an awful lot of very unhappy sysadmins right now (protip: it’s why lots of us are treating it as malware), and we cringed when we heard the Pentagon was going all out on Win 10. I mean, of all the nutty moves…

        Understand, PC admin has been in a good place, and Microsoft by and large were seen as a bumbling, somewhat incompetent uncle who occasionally soiled the bed, but otherwise provided oranges in the stockings once a year, and the odd lump of coal (Outlook Exchange Server, I’m looking at you, you filthy fleabag…). Now Microsoft has decided to don a turtleneck sweater, buy a convertible, undergo a midlife crisis, and get all controlling of everything everyone does.

        Good way to get IT departments to start seriously examining the cost/benefit options of getting out of Windows, really. STOP TRYING TO ENFORCE WINDOWS 10. THE PEOPLE WHO WANT IT WILL GO AND GET IT, THE REST WILL MUDDLE ALONG JUST FINE FUCK YOU VERY MUCH.


  32. Sandepande says:

    Every Win 10 related course I’ve been to says the same thing: if you’ve got 7, do not upgrade to 10, do a clean install. If you’ve got 8.1, upgrade works fine. That’s been my experience as well, so far, and as to the OS itself, a few clients who’ve rolled out a combined total of about 200 Windows 10 machines as part of general hardware refresh have had no issues.

    I myself have it at both work and home, upgraded from 8.1, and the only trouble I have is that my USB port replicator doesn’t understand its DVI port anymore.

    • Mokinokaro says:

      Exactly what I would recommend.

      It’s a huge improvement over 8.1 and you shouldn’t run into any major driver issues since they’re very similar under the hood, unless you’re on one of those laptops with vendor customized hardware.

      Windows 7 remains the best OS Microsoft has put out so unless you’re really anticipating DX12, hold off at least until they get a lot of the issues sorted.

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  34. gorgonaut says:

    I’ve luckily never had the nag-thingy on my system. At least, not visible. My two øre on this issue is that I simply don’t care whether what MS is doing is legal or not. We all know that’s what their lawyers are for, and that by golly, they’ll make make it legal.

    What really irks me is that it’s so obviously unethical. It’s just such a dick move. Not everyone has the whereabouts or the interest to have seen that MS changed the importance of the update. It makes me sad because this seems like such an underhanded, malicious thing to do. I fully realise it’s their right. Technically it’s correct, but I can’t stand the thought of not being able to trust my system anymore.

    Sorry for the incoherent rant. This shit just rubs me the wrong way. I’m glad to see I’m not alone.

  35. Premium User Badge

    particlese says:

    Man, Microsoft keeps making me happier and happier that I always disable auto-updates. Thanks for the cheer!

    These continuing Windows 10 shenanigans sure do make me wish I could reasonably stick to Linux for all my gaming “needs”. I’m not actually going to restrict myself that much, of course, and I plan to switch to Win10 eventually (because of the inevitable good DX12 exclusives), but now I’ll be more diligent about playing the Linux versions of games whenever the choice is available, lazily hoping that some person or Steamy piece of software somewhere notices. (Sometimes my butt is in the Windows Games seat, and I just don’t feel like dragging it over to the Literally Everything Else computer.) I half hope Microsoft starts pushing good games as Windows exclusives really hard so I’ll have sufficient contrarian motivation to jump ship entirely.

  36. Hmm-Hmm. says:

    This makes me so angry. And glad I have a Mac instead (not that Apple is without fault).

  37. Snargelfargen says:

    Well, this serves as a good reminder to turn off auto-updates! As a rule, I put off installing updates until

    • Snargelfargen says:

      oops! touch pad issues.

      I put off installing updates until I have some time to spare to go over them. Frustratingly, Windows has a bad habit of force-restarting with a 15-minute warning to install said updates. This wouldn’t be so bad except it inevitably happens in the early morning when I have a precious 15 minutes to stream the news and drink coffee. THAT TIME IS SACRED MICROSOFT. just do it in the evening, ok?

      • Mokinokaro says:

        Funny enough, Windows 10 half-solves that issue.

        You can schedule update times. But the updates are mandatory (on Pro you can set them to be delayed a few months)

  38. Raoul Duke says:

    Other than the risk factor – inherent to any OS upgrade – and concerns regarding how much it may be monitor your usage and tailor ads, I don’t think there’s a solid-gold reason not to accept the Windows 10 upgrade.

    Sure there is. I have Windows 7 on a couple of machines but let my two Windows 8 machines upgrade to Windows 10.

    The obvious reasons this might be a bad idea are:

    1. You can never go back to your old version if you don’t like it. Once your product key is converted, it’s a Windows 10 key thereafter. Also, you don’t get the actual key (see point 2 below).

    2. Windows 10 can go mental and lose activation if you upgrade your hardware. For gamers this is a big deal, because when this happens you will find that you don’t actually have a functional Windows 10 key, only a kludged together ‘upgrade key’. I recently spent a couple of hours with Microsoft support trying to reinstall Windows 10 after I had to upgrade my motherboard – in the end they gave up and had to give me a retail Windows 10 key because even they could not get my old Win 8 key to work. Throughout this process they treated me like someone trying to scam them. You will likely lose activation if you change your CPU or motherboard, but not your graphics card. Not sure about RAM. So as a gamer who semi-regularly upgrades bits of your PC, you are heading into a world of hassles with your OS.

    3. Drivers. Legacy hardware simply does not have and never will have Windows 10 drivers. If you’re lucky, Windows 7 drivers may work, but this is not guaranteed.

    4. Perhaps the biggest one for me: while you can turn off the spyware to some extent, Microsoft clearly plans to start treating Windows the way that Apple treats OSX, that is, by continually upgrading it at their discretion. You are really buying/acquiring a ‘service’ in the form of access to whatever the current iteration of Windows 10 is. The problem with this is that Microsoft in their absolute discretion might choose to add, remove or change features in the future and there will be absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. For example, they might take away the privacy tools that do exist. They might break compatibility with specific software. They might require everyone to sign up for ‘trusted computing’ to stop people using ‘bad’ software. They might implement some form of copyright monitoring on your PC. You simply can’t know, and if you install Windows 10 then you are basically telling Microsoft that they can go their hardest in this department.

    • Mokinokaro says:

      1 is actually incorrect. Win 10 keeps a copy of your old installation for 1-3 months that you can revert to.

      Be warned the reversion doesn’t always work right, but you can still use the key for a fresh install after.

      • Raoul Duke says:

        Well, it might not happen immediately but it definitely does happen at some point. You lose your ability to use your old OS and you are stuck with Windows 10.

        Source: direct discussions with Microsoft about whether I can just reinstall Windows 8 using my old key.

  39. Mrice says:

    I dont think microsoft really understand that things like this are the reason why their other platforms are failing.

    The Windows phone is a tedious walled garden without large dev interest and they seem quite loathe to invest in creating that interest or providing an open enough platform to foster it.

    The Xbone was birthed kicking and screaming into the world as a locked off always on-line console. Sure they reneged on that but the damage was pretty much done as far as im concerned.

    And now they are doing the same thing with windows 10, and its going to do them no favours.

    • Raoul Duke says:

      The XBone launch was when I realised Microsoft had truly lost its way. How could a multi-billion dollar corporation allow such incredibly poor decisions to affect a critical product line?

      I often wonder whether inside MS there is a cult-like view that they are so huge that the world will just conform to their decisions. The problem they have is that in most areas consumers have good alternatives they can turn to – Android for phones, Sony for consoles, Apple for PCs.

      • Mokinokaro says:

        Apple is not a good alternative for most users, though. Apple sells premium systems at a premium price. You can argue that they’re worth the so-called “Apple tax” but many people only see the price tag. People will also get frustrated (especially gamers) when a huge portion of their game library isn’t usable without bootcamp, negating the main advantage of buying Apple.

        Macs are still also not very good gaming machines due to their GPUs being made for the business world, not the individual consumer.

        Linux, however, is approaching being a decent desktop OS for even laypersons now.

        • Raoul Duke says:

          Oh, don’t get me wrong. I hate Apple. But I think in the minds of the non-tech savvy, a Mac is pretty interchangeable with a Windows PC in most respects.

          As for Linux, I would love to agree but I don’t. There’s a reason a totally free OS has 1% market share, and that is that it is brutally unintuitive and still feels like a frankenstein’s monster of a thing with numerous inconsistently functioning parts. And some very elementary things that just don’t work well, like wifi which is an absolute nightmare under Linux (I run Mint and Ubuntu, I’m not just making stuff up).

  40. HonestIago says:

    How’s this for a solid-gold reason: an unwillingness to be complicit with a company that encourages passivity, laziness, and stupidity from its users so it can exploit them? You can feel the contempt Microsoft has for its customers in every aspect of the consumer-end experience. Have some self-respect.

  41. nat_nem says:

    All the Microsoft/Windows-related bull that came up this past year or so finally did it: I’m on Arch Linux full-time now, and I ain’t never going back. Tip to game devs: if you’d like to continue to get my money, make sure you make a Linux port!

    • pepperfez says:

      Same. While I acknowledge the basic irrationality of it, it feels good to not be thinking my OS is trying to put one over on me.

  42. racccoon says:

    I love windows 10 & windows/microsoft in general & what it has done for the PC player! I do wish though, windows 10/microsoft had a “fuck you steam” clause, set in it. That’s my only disappointment with it really. :)

  43. icemann says:

    I absolutely hate Windows 10 and will never upgrade to it.

    I payed for my PC with my own money. That gives me the choice to run it, how I want. Not how they want.

    Windows 10 basically turns a PC into an XBox, where you either download all updates or don’t at all, where before in 7, 8 and earlier you got to pick what you installed, when you wanted and nothing was forced on you.

    I hate the audacity of Microsoft attempting to force the “upgrade” on users, as it shows a clear lack of respect for it’s userbase and a clear care only for the bottom $$$ at the end of the day.

    Fuck you Microsoft. 7 for life for me. It just does everything right, and allows to run my system the way I want.

  44. josch says:

    Yes. Upgrade.

    It doesn’t matter whether you do it now or later. The point is: if you want to continue using Microsoft Windows, then you have to upgrade – at least at some point. You might as well do it now.

    The problem being tied to a proprietary software distribution is, that you are now no longer free to decide whether you like the product or not. If you want to continue using Windows, then you have to upgrade to Windows 10. And if it’s not Windows 10 then Windows 11 or whatever they produce in the next couple of years.

    Not upgrading your shiny Windows 7 will leave you in the same position people are with Windows XP right now in a couple of years. And you will probably agree that running a system with unfixed security flaws is worse than most what Windows 10 has in store for you. Using an uninfected operating system is not only for your own security. You also have a responsibilty towards the people with whom you share data by Email or USB stick or whose data you have on your machine. Nobody wants you to be the reason why their Email address ended up as the recepient of another wave of Email spam.

    So if you want to continue using Windows, then you have to upgrade. If not now, then at a later point, but Microsoft has you in your hand with that. You might be able to prolong it for as long as Windows 7 is supported but after that you have to upgrade to whatever Microsoft throws at you. It doesn’t matter how much they screw up their new operating system or how unwilling you are to learn the new UIs they come up with. With removing security support for older releases, they have you in your hand.

    Personally, I long got tired of all this mess. I don’t want to be part of this and am using a Linux distribution instead since 2004. If I don’t like how something is done, I can easily switch to another and nothing shackles me to a single vendor.

  45. wraithgr says:

    Hey, RPS hive-mind, any suggestions for this issue:
    After initially installing windows 10 on my alienware aurora r2, I was facing an issue where all fans were running at full speed until the alienware thermal controller started up. I went back to windows 7 but this didn’t help. After a bit of back and forth, now only one fan is running full speed, but it basically runs all the time, no amount of speedfan or thermal control tinkering has helped… Am I borked (besides owning an alienware pc)?

    • wraithgr says:

      Forgot to say I am back in windows 10 and the fan is the fan on the liquid cooling unit on top of the cpu as near as I can tell…

  46. neofit says:

    I am not completely adverse to moving from my W7 to W10, but I never found a good enough explanation about W10’s licensing terms and prices.

    OK, currently W10 is free, but so is my boxed (non-OEM) copy of W7 Ultimate. I have changed motherboards twice since I bought it, re-registered the serial onto the new configuration on the MS site, and everything worked fine. But for W10, MS is licensing W10 for the “lifetime of the device”, whatever that means. Sounds very much like us needing to buy a new license whenever one changes the m/b or makes some other big hardware change. How else would they monetize this OS since there aren’t supposed to be any new versions until the end of times?

    So I feel like postponing the move to W10 until the last minute.

    • dajt says:

      I got caught out by this. Was happily running Win7 when my wife asked one day, “I just said yes to install Win10, is that ok?”

      After a while the PC ground to a halt and was disk I/O bound. It was a very old so I decided to upgrade it lock, stock, and barrel.

      Then Win10 starts asking me to activate it. I didn’t know it was device bound and so changing the MB means it was no longer licensed.

      When I rebooted the old PC looking for an activation key (none to be found), I noticed the anti-malware processes were the disk killers, so possibly the bug mentioned above.

      I have to say I much preferred Win7. I did hope Win10 would be the next ok one after skipping the iffy Win8 generation but it looks like Win10 is just a bit too different in terms of the control MS wants over the machine and unless they back off it will be another ME/Vista/8 in users minds.

  47. alsoran says:

    Just a couple of thoughts.

    Its perfectly reasonable to expect that Win 10 will go subscription based. Like other organisations they will want to coral users into their own pen to ensure we’re there to provide a constant flow of revenue, Home users I think.

    The end of extended support for Win 7 SP1 is 2020
    The end of extended support for Win 8.1 is 2023

    link to windows.microsoft.com

    That’s plenty of time for an alternative to Win 10 to develop.
    You are allowed to rollback your Windows 10 installation to the previous operating system for “30 days” post-upgrade.

    link to windows.microsoft.com

    Telemetry does exist.
    link to archive.is

    In a corporate environment its not cool.

    You can do stuff with GPO, but its complicated and from what I can see not very well documented. Security Hardening procedures have seemingly gone out of the window.

    WSUS is needed on the domain to manage and distribute updates to prevent individual machines updating on their own.

    Ghosting with feature updates is more challenging that previously, especially if you upgraded your company machines.

    windows 10 Pro and Enterprise users can delay security updates for 4 weeks and feature releases for 8 months. I assume that the system then either updates or stops? Home users cannot delay these.

    Enterprise version is obtained through volume licensing. The LTSB version which does not receive feature updates but is a stripped down version of Enterprise lacking the Store, Cortana and Edge.

    Enterprise LTSB seems the least fussy but what it costs I don’t know, it may be that either way you pay.

    Here at home I have Win10 installed on a 2006 HP laptop and a Chinese generic tablet to see if it would work, which it does. I’m trialling these to see what Microsoft will do with them in the long term. At the moment it does seem that I’ll be sticking with my Win 7 installs upgrading to Win 8.1 if I have to. I’m not convinced about the honesty, integrity or security of Win 10.

    From a personnel perspective, an alternative that allows me to play games and control my PC environment as I do now on Win 7 would be nice, but I still have a Gog backlog that will run on Linux if required. so I probably don’t need Windows.

    Errors and omissions as applicable please.

    • DFX2KX says:

      as for gaming, this desktop is going to get 10, and then beused for nothing else, I’m going to set up a little Linux box for the TV tuner, and my files.

      As for running software on linux? Wine’s improved quite a bit over the years (as has it’s pro version Crossover), and I’d heard tell that someone was waiting for Vulkan to show up before writing a nice DX12 API wrapper for Wine. When that happens, I’ll have to test it.

    • Hobbes says:

      Ugh, forgot to close the tags properly, MY WORLD FOR THE EDIT BUTTON YOU… *grumble* Seriously, when are we getting proper functionality on the site?

  48. Dr Biffo says:

    Strange… I haven’t had “auto updates” enabled for about the last two years… mainly because I was aware of the problems and because it removes my consent from what is installed. I’m sticking with Windows 7 and nothing is going to change that. Honestly, if you are stupid enough to have auto updates enabled then you deserve everything you get.

  49. Hypocee says:

    A combination of hardware failures, IRL busyness, and can’t-be-arsed means my gaming machine’s still on XP. It boots slower than my brother’s five-year-younger 7 system – takes almost a minute, during which I gnash my teeth at my wasted life, or you know, do something else. I click the icon of the thing I want to happen, and it does it. In…eight years on this install now?…I’ve had: 0 malware infections (I run NoScript and can breathe through my nose, that bit about security fixes being ‘vital’ on a machine with a competent user is horseshit). Also 0 popups from Microsoft’s new Win7+ nag/ad/spyware infrastructure. Just sayin’.

    Since XP was supposedly superceded I’ve had 2 games I cared about that I couldn’t run, Just Cause 2 at the time and now Invisible Inc. II has a Linux version. I’m excited about offscreen multitouch pads as a UI paradigm and plan to put a Linux partition (back) on here to play II and mess with them. If something radical changes and I let 10 anywhere near this machine, it’ll be after I triple-verify that my router’s set up to block DNS resolution to Windows Update servers. It’s so plain the only possible reason these tools and policies could have been authorized. A couple years down the road: ‘Your wallpaper is now set to a McDonald’s logo, whoops how’d that get there, oh well you can always change it back without buying the MS Wallpaper Customizer Tool only $9.99 on the Universal Windows Storefront…this time’.