Cardboard Children – The FFG/GW Divorce

The rumours were true. Fantasy Flight Games and Games Workshop are ending their relationship. It’s a conscious uncoupling that will send shockwaves through the board gaming community, and no wonder. For a blissful period, the two were a match made in heaven. But now it’s over, and everyone is just trying to wrap their heads around what it all means.

As for you? You need to act fast.

Fantasy Flight published a lot of games that used Games Workshop’s brilliant intellectual property, and many of these games are some of the best games you’ll ever play. Now, all of a sudden, Fantasy Flight has released a statement clarifying the future of that relationship between the two games companies. And that statement makes for very bleak reading for anyone who hasn’t yet picked up these titles.

“Beginning February 28th, 2017, Fantasy Flight Games will no longer offer for sale any games in conjunction with Games Workshop, including Talisman and all games taking place in the Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000 universes.

We’re extremely grateful to our friends at Games Workshop for giving us the opportunity to play in the worlds that they created, and we wish them nothing but the best in their future endeavors.”

Yes, it’s a good old future endeavor statement, like you see when someone gets released from the WWE. The party is over, completely, and right now. It’s like that bit in Trading Places where Eddie Murphy suddenly flings all the party people out of his flat. The warhammer has fallen.

The list of games that will no longer be printed is here – OH NOOOOO – and it hurts to look at it. I want to talk a little bit about what’s about to vanish, and what you should do about it.

TALISMAN

Forget what naysayers might tell you about Talisman. It is magic in a box. A universe of possibilities in cardboard. And this Fantasy Flight edition, with all its expansions, is about to vanish forever. If you have any interest in Talisman, hear me now – START BUYING TODAY. Grab the base game and The Reaper first. Then fill out all the corners of the board, with The Dungeon, The City, The Highlands and the Woodland. Then pick up those incredible small boxes like The Firelands and The Harbinger and – Oh, listen. If I was you I’d just buy it all. I have the whole set of Talisman, every bit of card ever printed, and I’ll own it until I die. Move quick.

(Also, RELIC is about to vanish too – and that’s a game much like Talisman, but set in GW’s Warhammer 40K Universe. And you know what? It’s probably a more interesting game design. It has a couple of fantastic expansions that really drag it into new territory, and it’s a brilliant game in its own right. I’m sorry, but you also need this.)

CHAOS IN THE OLD WORLD

It’s only one of the greatest games of all time, that’s all. I’d argue that it’s one of the first games that perfectly merged old-school board game settings and themes with new-school board game concepts. Designed by star designer Eric Lang, it is a dark, wonderful board game with very different player roles, rich in that beautiful Warhammer lore. The board is designed to look like a map made of stretched skin, and the game that plays out there is deep in strategy and tactics – but tempered with the fickle tides of chaos. You simply NEED to have this game in your collection. This isn’t even a controversial statement. It’s a game you’ll play often, and never tire of. And the game is also historically significant as a key milestone in Eric Lang’s career as a game designer. If you’re lucky enough to find the Horned Rat expansion – grab that too!

FURY OF DRACULA

This one is only just BACK in print, and now it’s about to vanish again. One player is Dracula, the rest are hunting the great vampire. It’s the best hidden movement game there is, better than any of the recent pretenders to the throne. And it’s rich with story, as Dracula flees across Europe and the hunters try to survive the nights and days to find him. This one will disappear fast. Go NOW. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

SPACE HULK: DEATH ANGEL

Space Hulk: Death Angel is a ridiculously fine game. It’s a small box card game that has no right being as tense and exciting as it is. It pulls elements of the masterpiece GW board game Space Hulk into a smaller space and still captures much of that same drama. A messy rulebook is the only downside of this excellent example of game design that I sometimes play solo just to remind myself about how brilliant it is.

EVERYTHING ELSE

Look, maybe not everything else. But I could just go on all day here. I mean, you need Blood Bowl: Team Manager, because it is fun and funny and thrilling. And you need Forbidden Stars, because it’s an enormous game of conquest set in the universe of Warhammer 40K and it looks BEAUTIFUL and it has brilliant combat and an ingenious order system. The Warhammer Quest Card Game is brilliant too, and it’s a tragedy that it is dead before it even got going. Warhammer: Invasion is a fantastic card battle game by Eric Lang, and probably my favourite of all the Fantasy Flight LCG systems. And poor old Warhammer Diskwars, a misunderstood game that is great fun – a real joy to play – but was punished by mystifying poor word of mouth in the early going.

Just… I dunno. In a decade, for sure, many of these games are going to be so highly sought after. And they ain’t coming back, people. So do what you feel you must. But please – don’t buy any just to sell on later for profit. Don’t – excuse my language – be a dick. Just get what you feel you need to play while you still can. Time is running out.

Why did this all happen? I don’t know. but the one positive is that it looks like Games Workshop are back in the board game arena in a big way. I can’t wait to see what they come up with next.

From this site

94 Comments

  1. jgf1123 says:

    Fury of Dracula has been associate with FFG so long I forgot the 1st edition was GW.

    • TheDandyGiraffe says:

      Yeah, and considering current GW policy, I think the odds for a new in-house edition of Fury of Dracula are the smallest. I mean, I don’t think they’ll take particularly good care of the other ones, and I’m not even sure if it would be legal for them to straight-up republish Forbidden Stars or Death Angel, but here we may at least hope for some kind of remake or an expansion or something. Fury of Dracula is not associated with either of the main GW brands, so it’ll be basically lost forever.

      • thekelvingreen says:

        Well, there’s an outside chance we may get Fury of Vlad von Carstein, but yeah, it’s probably going to disappear into obscurity. Again.

  2. Hammer says:

    Shout out for the FFG WH40k roleplaying books as well. Many an amusingly ill-timed death was had in Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy (although the number of mistakes in the first edition of DH was mind boggling).

    • aircool says:

      I still have my limited edition, leather bound, gold leaf, only 200 in the world Dark Heresy book.

      Inquisitor Lord Shackletarn at your service.

  3. Walsh says:

    I wonder who broke up with who.

    I can see GW getting too big for their britches as far as licensing costs (they make most of their money licensing the IP) and increased the price.

    I can also see FFG saying, “Look we make all of our money on Star Wars. Licensing your GRIMDARK IP costs way more and we only have the money to license from Disney.”

    Or some combination of the above.

    • Lord Byte says:

      Since they’ve been releasing all of their old boardgames again, there’s a third option. “Hey since we’re doing the boardgames again, we can make much more money selling them ourselves than just licensing them out.”

    • Archonsod says:

      According to the rumour mill GW were unhappy with FFG using the Star Wars license on Armada which was originally being developed as some kind of Battlefleet Gothic spin off. So yeah, probably FFG prefer to pursue the more lucrative Star Wars license while GW would prefer to license to someone who’s going to make them money off it. The real question is whether we’ll see GW actually move it back in house as people are predicting, or if they’ll just sell the licenses to someone else (probably more likely with the games GW own outright like Talisman and Fury, but given GW pretty much own the art I doubt there’d be that much of an obstacle if they wanted to make their own version of Forbidden Stars or the like).

      • malkav11 says:

        Their license specifically forbade them from using any miniatures in GW-licensed games, much less making a full on miniature game in a GW setting, so I can’t imagine Armada was anything but a Star Wars product from day one. Perhaps they had some entirely miniature-free take on Battlefleet Gothic in the works that it inherited mechanics from, but I’d bet this is entirely unfounded.

        • Premium User Badge

          phuzz says:

          But there’s miniatures in Relic. Ah, but no, they’re just the head and shoulders aren’t they. Clever.

        • TheDandyGiraffe says:

          Was it all GW-licensed games or just the wh/wh40k ones? There are miniatures in Fury of Dracula after all.

          Come to think of it, aren’t there “proper” miniatures in Forbidden Stars as well?

          • malkav11 says:

            Come to think of it, probably the latter. But Battlefleet Gothic is 40K, no? I mean, a spinoff, certainly, but it’s the same setting. I don’t know.

            And yeah, they would have liked to put minis in Relic but the busts were as close as they could come under the license. (I playtested Relic.)

  4. Veles says:

    I wonder how this effects the RPG books they took on from Black Library

    • Werthead says:

      The RPGs are all going as well. Which is annoying, as they’re the main things I was interested in. I might see if I can snatch them up whilst the going’s good.

  5. Palindrome says:

    This happened due to X-Wing and Armada; miniature games produced by FFG that are reportedly outselling GW’s own games, at least in North America. The upcoming Runewars wargame probably didn’t help either. Basically FFG has become a serious rival to GW.

    What I will really miss are the 40K RPGs, it could be argued that they had reached the end of their development as releases have slowed to a trickle but they had by far the best 40K background and fluff that I have read for years if not decades. Far superior than the shite that GW is apparently happy to squeeze into the world.

    • Palindrome says:

      Damn the lack of an edit button!

      There are also rumours that GW apparently stipulated that the continuation of its licensed IP would require some kind of halt in development for X-wing which was obviously never going to happen.

      • Phasma Felis says:

        What a bunch of miserable, shrivel-souled bastards GW have become. I’m so glad I resisted the urge to get into 40K years ago.

      • Lyngbakyr says:

        You’ve got the right of it. A few friends and I paint miniatures (which they generously provide tables and lamps for) on a weekly basis at the FFG’s Game Center in Roseville, MN and are modestly chummy with the employees. Their rumblings did mention a non-competition clause based around a blanket ban in the use of miniatures in their non-GW board games. With the X-Wing coffers overflowing, I doubt they’ll suffer too much financially, though I did thoroughly enjoy getting crushed in Warhammer Quest. It’ll be missed, no doubt.

    • Archonsod says:

      From what both companies let slip I think it’s just the case that GW felt their stuff was being neglected in favour of the Star Wars license. I highly doubt they’d consider FFG or for that matter Asmodee as a whole as rivals – they quite famously dismissed Wizards of the Coast as competitors (seems to the GW board, unless you’re making miniatures you’re a non-entity in their market. Although I believe people have been trying to figure out precisely what GW’s ‘market’ as they define it is since 1987 since it certainly doesn’t match anything in the real world. The most accurate guess I’ve heard so far was “Altdorf”).

      • Snidesworth says:

        As someone who followed the 40k RPGs there was definitely a sense that FFG refocused on Star Wars as time went on. It was a much more popular IP, increasingly so as Episode 7 neared, and they could play around with their own unique dice system rather than working within the legacy of Black Industries.

  6. dongsweep says:

    Just purchased Talisman on your recommendation but am holding off on the expansions until I give it a go this weekend. Sadly Warhammer is sold out everywhere I look (Amazon has it listed for $120!)

    • SebfromMTL says:

      Amazon is notoriously bad for FFG products. Try miniaturemarrket or meeplemart.

      Really bummed about Fury of Dracula really need to pick it up soon.

  7. Creeping Death says:

    Sigh… *adds entirety of 40k Conquest’s catalogue to his amazon basket” Lets do this.

    • shadowmarth says:

      TRULY SAD! I have been meaning to catch up on it forever and now it’s going to be hard! And frankly, I don’t have the money to catch up on it all right now. I understand the set is in a nice balanced state right now too… Maybe I can just pick up the deluxes so I have all the factions at least.

  8. frenz0rz says:

    What a massive shame this is.

    Collectively between us my friends and I own Chaos in the Old World + Horned Rat (WHAT a game!), Relic + expansions and Warhammer Conquest, but there’s so much more we might miss out on, and if any one of us moves away that’s potentially a game gone from our lives for good.

    One of my friends just panic-bought Forbidden Stars. Another is tempted by Deathwatch, and I’m rather inclined toward Fury of Dracula just because it sounds like nothing I’ve played before.

    A question, though – considering as a group we’ve played an absolute ton of Relic to the point where we’re a little sick of it, is it worth one of us forking out for Talisman + expansions as well? It’s constantly recommended, but universe aside, is it really that different to Relic? The ticking clock might well decide for us of course, but even so, there’s a dozen other highly recommended games possessing much more ‘fresh’ mechanics to my group that are just as tempting.

    Also, any opinions on Blood Bowl: Team Manager? I’m exceptionally fond of Blood Bowl as a game, but I’m also very wary of anything that isn’t exactly Blood Bowl. If that makes sense.

    • thekelvingreen says:

      I love Blood Bowl to bits and I will buy the new edition even though I have no reason to and I have too many orc and human teams as it is. I love it.

      So I was a bit wary of Team Manager, but it is quite good. Like the Warhammer Quest card game it captures the feel of the original board game while playing nothing like it, and so you find you have room in your heart for both.

      The one big thing TM has over the original is that you can play it with up to four players; it’s not often that I can break out the board game because there tends to be more than two of us around on game night.

      • Propbuddha says:

        I doubt that. “No miniatures games” has been part of the agreement since day one.

  9. Kefren says:

    It’s bizarre that companies will go to all the effort of designing games and making them and distributing them when the licence is only temporary. All that effort. Surely they should either get an agreement that the games made can be sold forever (or at least for 10-20 years or something), otherwise GTFO. They could have made the games with original stories and settings and not been tied to the licensing crap. I am glad I haven’t bought anything from Games Workshop in years (though I have got Fury of Dracula, which I bought without remembering GW were anything to do with it), because it is nothing like the company I used to love years ago.

    • elwyn5150 says:

      Not really. Ultimately it’s a profit if the company handles things well.
      There are a lot of short term things people do for a short term benefit. This was just another kind.

      It’s also not a total loss. There are things that were developed that can be reused. Today I was reading that the 1979 Dune game will never be reprinted because the Herbert estate refuse to permit it. However the game mechanics have been used elsewhere. The game is the same but without the Dune license.

      IIRC the GW/FFG coupling was 8 years already – not much less than 10 years.
      However long the deal, a conscious uncoupling may still be something that needs to be dealt with. It’s dealing the inevitable.
      Furthermore, 20 years is a long long contract. Most marriages don’t last that long. Things change a lot in 20 years and what if one party just wants out? What if one party is no longer a dutiful partner or one no longer loves the other?

      They could do that but they also might struggle to sell. I wouldn’t be buying so many X-Wing Miniatures if they weren’t Star Wars.

  10. CyborgHobbit says:

    Fellow fans of SPACE HULK: DEATH ANGEL may want to look at the expasions/addons for the game. They are created on demand, so they can only be ordered from FFG, but there is some good stuff.

    • Samuel Erikson says:

      “Fellow fans of SPACE HULK: DEATH ANGEL may want to look at the expasions/addons for the game. They are created on demand, so they can only be ordered from FFG, but there is some good stuff.”



      link to fantasyflightgames.com

      😭

    • Moraven says:

      I was able to find 3 of 4 at MSRP between USA/Canada online retailers.

      Still looking for the Tyranid pack.

    • cablechip says:

      I’ve been meaning to get Death Angel since forever. I managed to pick up one of the last copies from my FLGS yesterday, but finding any of the expansion packs for less than €30 each is complete bogus :-(

  11. Samuel Erikson says:

    Looked up the Chaos in the Old World expansion; over 300$ on Amazon US, and at least 150$ on BGG for the English edition.

    • frenz0rz says:

      It really is very good, although I’m not sure I’d pay that much for it.

      The Skaven are great fun. Due to their unit models themselves counting toward corruption rather than adding tokens to the board each turn, they really encourage you to swarm from region to region in a glorious wave of murine pestilence, dragging all your little skaven counters along for the ride.

      The card/ability reworks for the other factions are wonderful too, and it’s nice that the game presents a choice between the old and new cards, which adds a lot to the game’s variety and replay value.

      But that much money? Gosh, it’s a lot isn’t it?

      • Samuel Erikson says:

        “But that much money? Gosh, it’s a lot isn’t it?”

        Oh, absolutely. If I get it, it’ll be because I’ve found it for less than 100$. As it is, I don’t know how often I’ll get to play the base game.

    • Walsh says:

      It’s slightly disgusting that anytime this sort of thing happens all the third party sellers on Amazon and eBay swoop in and jack the prices of everything 100-500%. There are a boardgame/miniature game sites that still have some of the games in stock. Also, there are online retailers that specialize in out of print board games, you can set up email alerts and the prices are usually close to MSRP.

      • Samuel Erikson says:

        “It’s slightly disgusting that anytime this sort of thing happens all the third party sellers on Amazon and eBay swoop in and jack the prices of everything 100-500%.”

        I see this sort of profiteering most frequently in music. I’ve watched Coil releases sell out one month, only to be resold at a 1000-2000% markup the next month.

        (Looks like the Amazon listing for the base game has risen by about 80$ or so in the last few hours as well. On the upside, the Mutant Chronicles Kickstarter is going strong!)

  12. JB says:

    I’ve had Forbidden Stars on my “I’ll get it some day in the future” list for some time. Within 24 hours of hearing the news I bought it. I’ve heard so many good things about it. And now that it’s here, man, it’s lovely. I can’t wait to play it!

  13. Budikah says:

    You know what would be great?

    If Games Workshop genuinely got their shit together. They own such an amazing host of IP’s with great lore involved – they’re beloved, yet their entire business model ends up being licensed games and their constantly chaotic tabletop division that ends up costing more and more each time – continually pissing off fans with each edition.

    I love their work, but I can’t really get behind how they operate. You’d think they’d find a more tenable model for the future, because I can’t imagine $200 dollar giant space knight models will fuel them forever.

    • A Wanderer says:

      That would be great indeed. So far so good, GW seems to be afloat, but it’s a very bad long-term strategy.
      For exemple : I personnaly like Warhammer 40K, for its lore mainly. I bought some books from the Black Library, some video games (mainly from the Dawn of War series and the excellent Space Marine game), and I would like to start a collection of models. But pay 200 euros for a small box with 5 units in it ? No, thanks. Hell, when five space marines are more expensive than 1/16 Tiger tank from Tamiya, you know you have a problem. I guess there are plentry of people in my case, that would like to buy models because they are interested in the lore, but will never do it because of the insane prices.

      • Unruly says:

        The new CEO, who’s only been in office for a bit over a year now, seems to be reining things back a bit. They’ve actually started selling “starter sets” that have a discount versus buying the models individually, which they haven’t done for ages. He’s brought back the specialist games division. He’s even listened to fans about how crap Age of Sigmar is and had the company release a set of rules that actually use point values for units and have an actual balancing mechanism.

        He used to be their CFO, so he’s going to be intimately familiar with their finances, and I’m sure he saw how the things Kirby kept doing hurt their bottom line. I don’t know how much he actually cares about building goodwill with customers, but he’s at least taking steps to try.

        Whether or not it continues and they truly pull their collective heads out of their asses, start selling things at reasonable prices, and treat their fans as actual people rather than wallets to be wrung out, well, only the future knows.

        • Someoldguy says:

          If he can manage a genuinely good Warhammer Fantasy RPG I’ll be delighted. FFG’s effort was visually impressive but unplayable as far as we were concerned. Unless you have a house with a dining room table big enough for 10 or an acre of clean living room carpet you just don’t have room to set out all the cards, counters, trackers and dice you need – and that’s just the player characters. Then you have to sweep the place inch by inch to make sure they all get back in the box afterwards. The abstract range to target system completely broke down once there were more than two groups in the fight too.

  14. aircool says:

    GW just want their slice of the board/card game market back, the one they threw away in the late 80’s.

    I owned way more GW games (board games, RPG’s etc…) than Warhammer stuff, at least until Rogue Trader was created.

  15. TillEulenspiegel says:

    Oh shit, all the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay stuff is gone from DriveThru too, including the older editions.

    It’s just great business when your best stuff is available only through piracy (or the rare used copy). Good to see tabletop game makers learning from the best decisions of videogame publishers.

    • gwathdring says:

      While I find annoying and possibly unnecessary the system whereby FFG has to stop selling older products by a hard deadline because licensing bollocks … I get cutting off digital products ahead of that deadline.

      In the tabletop RPG space, digital represents not only less money for the same profit margin, but also fewer sales in the first place. If most of your customers are looking for physical copies anyway, cutting off digital stuff earlier will help FFG help their retail partners finish moving inventory. People won’t be as indecisive, leaning on last-minute digital sales as an option.

      Local retailers have effectively invested in FFG product stock and maintaining a good relationship with them means helping move that merchandise as best they can. I think its reasonable.

      But, again, the whole IP licensing system could probably be sorted out much better for all involved.

    • whatfruit says:

      If you’re desperate for WFRP 2e materials drop me PM.

      The discontinuation of support for Dark Heresy, Death Watch and Rogue Trader is going to be blow as they are solid RPG’s.

  16. Jungle Rhino says:

    I’m thinking Runewars probably riled GW somewhat link to fantasyflightgames.com

    It is basically a direct competitor to Age of Sigmar

    • thekelvingreen says:

      I suspect — given the lead time on these things — that FFG announcing their own miniatures wargame is a symptom rather than a cause of the split.

  17. Premium User Badge

    Flavour Beans says:

    As someone mentioned earlier, if you want any of these games, move quickly. Places are already selling out and prices are already rising quick for some of them, especially the Horned Rat expansion for CitOW, which was already pretty hard to put your hands on. This news isn’t the newest, so people already have a head start.

  18. malkav11 says:

    It’s really frustrating to me because FFG is far better at realizing the potential behind GW’s licenses than GW themselves have ever been. Their raison d’etre is and always has been to sell insanely expensive bits of metal, and while they clearly have some interest in placing that in a context, both game mechanically and narratively, they’re by most accounts not that great at it and the non-minis games have never gotten much love. Especially since GW all but abandoned the space for decades.

  19. emotionengine says:

    What ever happened to FFG’s version of the Hours Heresy Boardgame? It’s not even mentioned on their list. Was that just a one off fling that we don’t talk about anymore?

    • thekelvingreen says:

      I believe Horus Heresy has been out of print for a while anyway, so that’s probably why it’s not mentioned.

      That said, Fury of Dracula wasn’t on the list at first either, probably because everyone — including FFG — forgot it was a GW game.

  20. cablechip says:

    Gah, I can’t justify buying all the GW games I have kept my eye on. Especially since I don’t have the time to play them anytime soon :-(

  21. Premium User Badge

    PoulWrist says:

    GW only wants to work with people that make really bad phone games and weird things like Warhammer Chess and Plants vs Zombies rip-offs.

  22. Jorum says:

    I conflicted as one hand I love WH40K fluff so like the idea of Relic. But on the other hand my daughters are more likely to be drawn into the generic fantasy stuff of Talisman.
    Although I have the talisman 2nd Edition plus dungeon so maybe that’ll do.

  23. Bull0 says:

    The enormous Horus Heresy game FFG did is a thing of exquisite beauty, and costs about the same as GW want to charge you for ONE of their heresy supplement books.

  24. DragonDai says:

    I am so angry and upset about this. I’ve been slowly collecting the FF Talisman expansions for a long time now. I’m disabled and unable to just rush out and pick up the last 150-200 bucks worth of stuff I’m still missing (because these games are EXPENSIVE). And now I can either go without food for a couple of months to afford these things before they disappear forever or I can just live with an incomplete game (and a broken City board…broke on the second use…grrr…).

    Seriously, just…ugh…

  25. Wertymk says:

    Can’t games workshop just license the games to someone else to print?

    • xvre says:

      I just created my account here to ask the same thing. Is it the case that GW owns the theme IP and FF owns the game mechanics and once the separation occurs, it will be impossible to reprint the games by either party?

    • thekelvingreen says:

      GW reps were spotted at a recent trade show courting potential licensees.

    • Runty McTall says:

      I imagine that the IP is split – setting, characters and so on to GW but rules/mechanics and so on (possibly some of the graphical design?) to FFG.

      So after the divorce it would be deadlock – neither could reprint without the other. Hence, in a likelihood (unless they reconcile later) gone for good. I hope that FFG will at least do their best to ramp up production before the the cut-off (though I’d also understand their desire not to be left with unsaleable stock).

      GW can get other people to make new games in the setting, of course.

      • Runty McTall says:

        Oh, xvre already said all that – yup, I think so.

      • elwyn5150 says:

        Doesn’t it also depend on how bitter the conscious uncoupling was?

        If it was amicable, GW can license out the IP for the characters and lore to a third party and FFG can license out the rules and game mechanics to that third party.

  26. Plake says:

    i assume anything related to arkham horror (or elder sign) will also go away?

    • Samuel Erikson says:

      “i assume anything related to arkham horror (or elder sign) will also go away?”

      I don’t think so? Most Cthulhu Mythos stuff is independent or done in conjunction with Chaosium.

      • Plake says:

        Great! I am not that familiar with board games, so i was afraid GW alao did that. Its a shame with Talisman though… every weekend i am playing this with my nephew and niece. they can’t read yet, but they love the game. time to get the necessary asd-on’s asap. What would u advice for people that play once in a while, ate the most important ones?

        • Plake says:

          edit: i do see his reccomendations in the article above, but as a gamer my budget is already pretty slim, so only the most fun stuff is possible…

          • clg6000 says:

            All this is conditional on actually being able to find these things now, but you should check out:

            The Reaper–A smaller box add-on that adds a few new heroes, more adventure cards, the Grim Reaper himself (who moves around the board allowing players to terrorize each other), and best of all the Warlock Quest cards (which replace the Warlock die roll with a more varied stack of cards).

            The Dungeon–this expansion was the first corner board for 4th ed., and is likely the most dangerous corner of the game–but also has the most potential for reward. Adding the Dungeon gives the end game two routes instead of one–instead of storming the inner region, players can attempt to level up in the Dungeon, get a kick-butt quest reward, and then stomp all over the competition.

            The City–the final cornerstone of the corner expansions, the City gives you a reason to care about all the gold you can end up dragging around without a place to spend it. It also adds a ton of items which can now help you level up without searching randomly for monsters and stuff.

            Beyond that, everything is great. I’d focus on the corners (though the Highland is like an easier Dungeon, and the Woodland is really a whole new twist on the game–so both aren’t 100% critical). All the small boxes are great too, particularly Sacred Pool and Frostmarch, but mostly they just add more stuff.

            As for the newer stuff, Firelands, Harbinger, and Cataclysm all make significant changes to gameplay (especially Cataclysm, which replaces the base game board). Until you’ve exhausted the other stuff, these things aren’t likely to add much fun. And the Deep Realms you can’t even use even need unless you have both the City and the Dungeon.

            I should also add that people generally disliked the Dragon expansion (which replaced the inner realm) for some reason, though I’ve never played it, so can’t say why. It’s probably the least essential of the expansions, though it sounds the most exciting.

            Still, at this point–if you can grab any Talisman 4th ed stuff, it’s probably worth it–GW isn’t likely to start cranking out a new edition soon, if ever.

        • Samuel Erikson says:

          I’m not really sure; nearly all the FFG/GW stuff has been in my “buy it some day” list for ages. That said, I am planning on picking up Fury of Dracula. It’s cheap enough that I can fit it into my budget right now, and I don’t currently have anything else like it.

          My recommendation though? It’d probably be a good idea to prioritize the Talisman add-ons. At worst, you can sell them on if/when your niece & nephew get tired of it.

    • thekelvingreen says:

      I thought so as I was sure GW published the first edition of Arkham Horror but it seems there was a Chaosium version first, so that licence seems to be safe.

      • malkav11 says:

        The FFG reboot of Arkham Horror well predates their agreement with GW.

  27. Brego says:

    I play mostly 2 player games or solo. Out of CHAOS IN THE OLD WORLD, fury of dracula or talisman would bring recommended for me? I all ready have space hulk and all 4 expansions and warhammer quest plus expansions.

    • thekelvingreen says:

      Of those, probably Fury of Dracula or Chaos in the Old World. I can’t imagine Talisman working well with two players, and none of them work well solo.

    • Oduglingen says:

      Chaos in the Old World is 3-4 players only. Fury of Draculy plays best with 5 players, but it’s technically possible with only two players, although it would be sad for the “heroes” player to not have anyone to discuss and strategize with.

    • Lunsku says:

      Chaos in the Old World is 3-4 players and I feel it’s not very soloable.

      Fury of the Dracula can do 2, but I really feel it loses a lot of its luster without at least two hunter players facing the ol’ Drac. It’s definitely not a game you solitaire.

      And Talisman is a bad game I cannot recommend to anyone not looking for 80s nostalgia. At least pick up Relic over it, if you’re hellbent for that kind of game. It is the game for two you would pick from your choices, and the one that can solitaire in a pinch too.

      • Someoldguy says:

        I have fond memories of playing Talisman back in the late 80’s but there were certainly as many games where one or two players had a runaway advantage over the rest within the first half hour and the remaining hour was only enjoyable if you could cheer for them and ignore your own parlous state (or secretly hope they got to the end of the board and drew the end-game card that destroyed them – I forget which expansion introduced that.)

    • malkav11 says:

      I’d buy Chaos in the Old World and forcibly acquire additional players if necessary, because it’s that good. But none of them would be good purchases for 2 player/solo situations. (If you really want to play Talisman solo, buy the virtual adaptation available on Steam – the proper one, not Prologue. It occurs to me that it’s based on FFG’s version of the game so that might also be affected.)

  28. Malagate says:

    Thanks for the big news and recommendations, I’d been meaning to look for future boardgames for the family to play (mine is growing) and some of these should do nicely.

    Shopping around though, £70+ on Amazon for stuff like Fury of Dracula? Is that just sudden price gouging or was it always like that on Amazon? If you’re looking for that, please shop around as I just ordered it from a different site for under £50 (wish I could get it under £45, no deal…but I got close!). Chaos Cards if that’s of use to any Dracula hunters out there…

  29. Haldurson says:

    The whole art design of the entire Warhammer universe is a total turn-off to me, to the point that I will not play any of those games. I don’t mean the quality of the art, but the over-the-top sensibility of it all. And Talisman is probably the best bad game that I know of. It’s one of those games that overstays its welcome, that you realize sometimes that you’ve been there for 2 hours and you just want to quit, even if you are the one who’s winning. Rolling and going around in circles just gets tiresome after less time than it takes to finish a game. For the type of game that it is, with modern board game sensibilities, games like Talisman should last no more than 45 minutes, or better yet, a half an hour. That way you can play it and finish before it gets tedious. In theory, though, because of how it is designed, it is theoretically possible for games to NEVER end. And I’ve been in games of Talisman that felt exactly like that, that the game would never end.

    • DragonDai says:

      Eh, to each his own. Talisman is, by far, my favorite board game. I’d much rather play that then any of the other games I owned or have even ever played for that matter.

      • Ragnar says:

        It’s certainly a polarizing game. I played Talisman once and wanted to quit halfway through. It was a very boring experience.

        I felt like all I got to do was choose left or right and roll a lot of dice. I was effectively the random number generator and the game was playing itself.

  30. Christianus Invictus says:

    I’m not a board gamer, but I enjoy reading about them. I was a pretty avid follower of Cardboard Children, and this news essentially threw me into a panic.

    I am now the (proud?) owner of Talisman, Warhammer Quest Card Game, and Fury of Dracula. WHAT HAVE I DONE???

    • thekelvingreen says:

      You have set yourself up for many mornings, afternoons, and evenings of great fun, is what.

    • elwyn5150 says:

      You can now enjoy a social life in real life as well as online.

      At some stage, you will find some peers to play with and have to learn the rules to the games. Learning rules can be painful even after reading the manual but there are online tutorials and examples of people playing. I recommend trying to play through the game by yourself a few times before introducing it to other people – take as much time as you need and go through it at your own pace.

      • Christianus Invictus says:

        Social Life? Friends? All I can think of are the board games THAT ARE GOING TO BE GONE FOREVER, and all I want to do is SELL SOME ORGANS TO GET THEM ALL BEFORE THAT HAPPENS. THIS IS YOUR FAULT RAB!!!

        • elwyn5150 says:

          Calm down.

          You’ve got three games. When you go to a gaming group, you will usually play one per week because other people bring their games which they want to play. Three games will last you awhile.

          Your real problem is lack of impulse control.

  31. Christianus Invictus says:

    Quick Question: How essential are the expansions to Talisman? I’ve already played a session with some friends and it was such a blast, but…..and it’s a huge butt, it’s going to be gone forever. Do I really need them? Do they add so much to the game that I will hate myself forever if I don’t buy them now? I’m wondering how many days my kid can go without food…..(just kidding!)

    • DragonDai says:

      They vary in quality. Two of them are basically just extensions of the main game (dungeon and highlands) that give new, tougher areas to explore and bosses to kill and what not. Others (werewolf/death/woodlands) add new mechanics, others (city, dragonlord) take already existing ideas in the game and dramatically expand upon them. And then some (firelands, frost queen) just add “more.”

      They ALL add new classes, endings, items, etc, and most of them add new adventure cards (and the big ones all have their own decks that operate like the adventure deck for their region). They are ALL worth owning, but the best ones, IMO, are City followed by Dungeon followed by werewolf/death, followed by the rest in no particular order. But, again, they really are all pretty fricken’ awesome and I’m trying like crazy to find a way to get the last couple I need before they go away forever.

    • thekelvingreen says:

      I think of all the FFG/GW games, Talisman is least likely to disappear forever; it was on its fifth edition under FFG, and the four before that were all published by GW. It will pop up again.