Total War: Warhammer 2 announced

With their business in The Old World concluded, The Creative Assembly have announced Total War: Warhammer II [official site] during EGX Rezzed. The strategy sequel is off to visit the Lizardmen, High Elves, Dark Elves, and another faction being kept secret for now. Interestingly, it’ll introduce the risk of enemies beating you not just into the ground but to the final goal too. Get a look at the coming rumble and one delighted froglord (that’s Mazdamundi ↑ up there) in this here announcement trailer:

Total Warhammer 2 is off to visit the lands of Lustria, Ulthuan, Naggaroth and the Southlands, and focuses on trouble with the Great Vortex. As an official FAQ explains:

“As the twin-tailed comet of Sotek made its recent journey across the skies, it caused the Vortex to become dangerously unstable. Each of the four races has its own objective regarding this: some wish to heal the Great Vortex and prevent calamity. Others see opportunity in disrupting it. That said, no two races have precisely the same objectives and they’ll need to accomplish them in their own way.

“The campaign is therefore a race for control of the Vortex, culminating in a cataclysmic series of endgame events. This is the first TW game where the AI can beat you to the end game objective.”

And yes, as promised, Total Warhammer 2 will be able to combine with the first game. A campaign map combining the lands of Twarhammer and Twarhammer 2 will arrive “weeks not months” after launch, for players who own both games – though they will still have the option to play on the original, single-region campaign maps.

Total Warhammer 2 is due some time later this year. A third game will follow.

76 Comments

  1. Gothnak says:

    I do enjoy TW:W but my biggest issue is how much enemy armies don’t want to actually partake in War, and instead want to run around at the very edge of your movement radius. Makes the whole experience very frustrating.

    I’m sure it never happened in old Rome & Medieval, used to be a case of ‘here they come, smash!’ much more satisfying.

    • Landiss says:

      I actually feel like it’s much better here than in the previous games of the series. Granted, it’s been some time I played Rome 1 and Medieval 2 (which I suspect you refer to). Of course nothing beats the old 2d maps of Medieval 1 and Shogun 1, that didn’t have that problem at all.

      I also started playing multiplayer, my first time in the series (and I play the series since the first shogun). I was afraid I would not have much fun with kids clicking 200 times per second, but actually the speed is not really a problem and especially 2v2 or more battles are very fun. The skill level is not superhigh in that mode, quite the opposite actually, and everyone can have fun. The quick battles, which are ranked, are a different story. I played just a few and got stomped each time :D.

      • Gothnak says:

        I was playing my first game as the Vampire Counts and at one point i had 3 Chaos Armies plus a Dwarf and Human army all on my borders. None of them were attacking each other, and my two large armies just spent about 10 turns running after any army that entered my borders, which would then just run away if i engaged it. It was bloody awful.

        Once you get into a fight, it’s pretty good. When you are on the offensive it works well, as the armies can run, so you’ll attack the settlements, but defensively it’s poor.

        • Landiss says:

          Well, don’t expect them be attacking force much stronger then theirs or stay within it’s striking distance. To be honest, I simply didn’t have that problem in my Vampires campaign (some time ago) nor in my recent dwarves campaign. I had that to some extend when playing as Empire, due to huge size of their provinces, but it wasn’t unmanageable. You may try using ambush stance. There is also a mod that increases your army movement speed at home provinces, so enemy shouldn’t be able to outrun you there.

    • Hensler says:

      There’s a pretty good More Aggressive AI mod in the Steam Workshop. Between that and the Radius mod collections, I can’t imagine ever going back to playing vanilla Warhammer.

      My biggest complaint was how boring most of the campaign battle maps were – I’ve found some improvements for this for multiplayer maps in the Workshop, but most of the campaign maps are still pretty boring compared to some older TW games.

      • Landiss says:

        Yeah, I don’t like the maps. Mostly that they seem to repeat all the time and are not very interested in the first place. In Shogun 2, where I think they used pre-made maps for the first time, instead of randomly generated, they were very nice and detailed. Here they are very meh most of the time and any interesting details are usually outside of the battlefield or don’t affect the battle in any way, just as decoration.

    • Gothnak says:

      I like that both solutions are ‘mod the game’, well tbh, i shouldn’t have to should I? Why can’t the devs identify it’s a problem and fix it themselves?

      Modding should be for adding a different race, or completely different gameplay, not patching a developer’s dodgy AI.

      • Ghostwise says:

        This is the land of PC gaming. We *mod*, we drink, we die.

      • Landiss says:

        Only one of my solutions were to use mod. And personally I’m not using it. I’m playing vanilla since some time. In general find mods that change gameplay lacking in this game. They are not very balanced and they make some questionable changes, at least they were the last time I tried, a few months ago.

      • Z aIN IDa 1R says:

        Use Ambush Stance to hide your armies so you can get close without being noticed, as well as be hidden so they cant see your movement radius at all.
        figure out which Hero it is in your faction that has the “Block Army” ability and use it to reduce your enemy armies movement points.
        Using both of these two things together i have never had a problem catching an army.
        Do not mod. Just use the existing game mechanics, and a little cunning, and no one will be escaping you unless you let them.

    • Premium User Badge

      Drib says:

      Yeah, they do that a lot. Raid just outside your range, then when you run to stop them, they back off a few feet and dart back in when you leave.

      Mods can fix it, but maybe I want to play the base game, you know?

      • gfrenz says:

        But there are some nice wee mods that you shouldn’t keep out of your life. Home Region Movement Bonus Mod. It simply adds 10% movement to any factions units in their own territory. That’s all it does, no added Dwarves with miniguns. It makes sense – your armies should have a better grasp of their own territories, and that 10% extra is not a massive buff but makes a noticeable difference in catching pesky raiders. Doesn’t work with horde factions, but works for all other AI, which is pretty neat.

      • Z aIN IDa 1R says:

        You could try using actual in game mechanics.
        use Ambush stance to hide your armies on approach, this allows you to close in without their notice.
        also there is a hero for pretty much every faction that has a “Block Army” ability. use it to reduce the armies movement range so they cant outrun you.
        These also worked in previous TW games. No need to mod, just learn to use the mechanics that already exist.

    • 3Form says:

      I found it was a combination of the AI positioning perfectly to be at the limit of your movement radius (despite perhaps not even having vision on your army) AND also, perhaps more importantly, the “forced march stance” which makes it impossible to move and engage an enemy army.

      If the enemy is force marching, then you must force march to catch them. But when you are force marching, you can’t engage. It’s really annoying and I wish they’d remove the stance.

      • Rindan says:

        I think you kind of touch on the real problem. When the AI perfectly places its armies to exactly not be attacked, and even when you do it yourself, it makes the game feel very… well… gamey. It’s perfectly predictable who will be able to get who each turn. It is more like board game than game even trying to hazily capture the feel of moving armies around.

        Honestly, I think they could fix a lot of this with some good old fashioned randomization. Make it so that the movement range is a little hazy and a little random. If you want to play cat and mouse games with another army, you can do it, but the closer you play it, the more likely you are to have your armies final movement not be as far as you had hoped.

        Honestly, the entire campaign map plays more like a board game in most ways. I know they want to keep it accessible, but they need to inject a little life onto the campaign map. Fuzzing over some numbers, adding in a little more smooth randomness, and being less +10 this and -5 that could go a long ways. It plays like a computer because you are basically playing a board game, and the computer is just able to play to the the rules better because it is precise and more patient than you. That’s boring.

        • 3Form says:

          Good idea: an element of randomness to how far you can move. I also think they should slash movement range per turn to allow positioning to be more about shadowing and intercepting an army, even if it makes the game longer by having more turns.

          Thinking about it this is one thing where the old ‘risk style’ board works better: if two armies occupy the same space, they battle.

          Perhaps a completely reworked mechanic, where armies in proximity to each other at the end of a turn engage each other, with a chance to withdraw if you have MP remaining? Massive risk of overcomplicating the formula with obscure mechanics I suppose, but maybe if two armies are in a province there’s a chance of engagement depending on how far apart they are. Leaders could have maneuver stats to improve their ability to engage/evade…

    • SaintAn says:

      They usually run from a overwhelmingly stronger force. You need to create ambushes to trap them and use agents to slow them. Or cheat with a mod that lets you move farther in your areas.

    • BlackMage says:

      This was to make the AI feel more human. If you are marching towards them with a large army that they stand no chance of beating they will run away like a human player would. You need to either show them an army that doesn’t dwarf theirs or lure them into ambushes. It makes an argument for maintaining smaller army groups for border skirmishes on top of a larger main army for invasions.

    • kerndaddy says:

      Truthfully, you could have said grass is green and somebody on the internet would have replied that it’s not so. But you are absolutely right about the AI. It always surprised me that nobody ever really mentions it.

      No matter what you do, the AI will surround your armies with armies from factions that should normally hate each other, working together like they are the best of buddies. It’s unreal how you will be perfectly surrounded by armies that have no earthly reason to be working together, just to make it more difficult to succeed. If you fight one of the armies and beat it, but suffer losses, the other AI will ignore the army you defeated, even though they are at war, and instead attack you.

      It is the cheapest AI that I have ever experienced. And the fact that so many people defend it like it’s good ensures that Creative Assembly will never improve it.

      • Blinky343 says:

        None of what you’ve said matches reality at all

        • kerndaddy says:

          Man thanks for that, it’s good to know that me and my wife have been completely imagining it for our several hundred hours in game. We should have consulted an anonymous internet expert sooner.

    • mars_invaders says:

      Use your hero to block the offending army. For the Empire, it’s the Witchhunter and for the Vampire it’s the Banshee.

    • Z aIN IDa 1R says:

      If only there was a way to hide your armies on approach to close the gap without the enemy noticing you or being able to see your movement radius. maybe we could call it Ambush Stance.

      Would also be cool if all the factions had a hero with an ability that, when successful, reduces the target armies movement points on the next turn. we could call this ability “Block Army”

      by the way this is total sarcasm because both those things actually exist in the vanilla game. learn to use them before complaining about the game.

  2. Jekadu says:

    I assume the Skaven are the fourth faction, seeing as how they manage the feat of supplanting Chaos as the arch-enemy of the Lizardmen in the lore.

    It will be interesting to see what form DLC will take. Southlands roster for Lizardmen? Daemons of Chaos as its own faction? Tomb-Kings to tie together the Southlands and the Old World?

    Come to think of it, the only factions missing at this point will be Skaven, Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs, assuming the last of the bunch will be allowed considering they haven’t been updated in twenty years or so.

    • Snowskeeper says:

      There’s also sky dwarves now, apparently?

      • NetharSpinos says:

        That’s AoS (Age of Sigmar). We don’t talk about that in polite company.

        • Snowskeeper says:

          I’m sorry; I’m from down the street at Warhammer 40K. :’D

    • NetharSpinos says:

      They did say they wanted to include every faction that had its own codex in 8th ed, and the 3rd game will also have its own factions to bring to the table.

  3. Ethaor says:

    Wow, didn’t the “1st” game release last Summer?

    April’s fool?

    • Landiss says:

      This is a stand-alone expansion. Something like Attila was to Total War Rome 2 or Fall of the Samurai to Shogun 2. It’s not really a completely new game. There will also be a third one in the future, they announced it already quite some time ago.

      • Aetylus says:

        Yup… this is effectively just a DLC+ being badged up as a full game so that they can charge a full game price all over again. Then they’ll do it again with TW”3″. They’re both just bundled race packs for the first game. Great move for Sega Games Co Ltd… not so good for the poor guys paying for the game.

        • Snowskeeper says:

          There are four races in game.

          They are currently charging $20.99 Canadian for each race pack on Steam.

          The full game costs $70.99 Canadian.

          The race packs shouldn’t cost 20 bucks, but the assertion that they’re just doing this so they can overcharge for it is ridiculous.

          • Landiss says:

            But they do do it to get full price for DLC. Not to mention the factions DLCs are ridiculously overpriced as well. Hopefully there will be nice promos… It’s not a cheap series.

        • dashausdiefrau says:

          Let’s pretend that people must buy it, let’s pretend that there are no regular discounts. If people buy it for 60€, it means it is worth 60€, if people don’t buy it, Sega will drop prices, ain’t that easy?

          • zarthrag says:

            As if Games Workshop has ever been cheap… (this is a bargain compared to tabletop gaming!)

    • Snowskeeper says:

      It might be a good idea to refer to it as “Total Warhammer Part 2.”

      • plsgodontvisitheforums says:

        Total 2: Warhammerder

        • Martell says:

          Total Warhammerer 2, surely. Or Totaler Warhammer 2? Total Warhammerest 3 next year?

  4. Farsearcher says:

    I enjoyed Total Warhammer a ton but I felt the DLC was over priced for what it was. I’ll probably wait for a GOTY edition or sale edition to get this one.

    The 4th faction will almost certainly be Skaven as the glowy eyed rat at the end of the trailer suggests. So far all the starter factions have had a direct enemy – Empire vs. Vampire counts and Orcs vs. Dwarfs so this this one will presumably be High elves vs. Dark elves and Lizardfolk vs. Skaven.

    I suspect the Tomb Kings and maybe some of the minor factions might be brought in as DLC but they’ve covered most of the major players already. I don’t think they’ll bring in Cathay or Nippon (Warhammer China and Japan respectively)much as I’d like them to.

    I’m intrigued as to what the third game will be. I remember Creative saying they were contracted for 3 Warhammer games and they can probably get all the major factions in these 2 so what will they do with the third? More units for all factions? End times story campaign? I suspect they might bring in Naval Combat, I know someone dug up a load of unused unit cards that had ships for most races in TW one.

    • El_MUERkO says:

      Agreed, the DLC pricing stopped me buying, I’ll wait for a GOTY or 50% off sale.

      • SaintAn says:

        Well the game was $12 for a whole month recently, so you really screwed up that plan. lol And DLC isn’t even needed since it’s all in the game if you buy it or not improving the game for everyone.

        • thetruegentleman says:

          That just means you end up fighting against things you can’t actually build yourself, which is kind of lame.

          • Landiss says:

            You always fight against things you can’t get yourself in TW. You play one race and fight other races and each has completely different set of units. And that’s a good thing.

            But I agree, the DLCs should be cheaper.

    • gfrenz says:

      They’re saying 3rd game will focus on the four Ruinous Powers or some such malarkey.

      • Snowskeeper says:

        What’s a they?

        • PancakeWizard says:

          The four distinct Chaos Gods/factions: Nurgle, Tzeentch, Khorne and Slaanesh

          ie. regenerative plague demons, cackling mutating magic users, blood-soaked berserkers and kinky hentai S&M fanatics.

          • Snowskeeper says:

            I know who the Chaos Gods are; they’re the things the Old Ones accidentally created when they started wailing and screaming upon realizing the Necrons were about to drive them extinct. I meant “who is this person getting this info from?”

    • Hedgeclipper says:

      They might need the naval combat for this one if they’re going to let you play across maps from both the first and second game. I am also curious how they intend to make that work with the race settlement restrictions.

  5. BlackeyeVuk says:

    Already? Well, someone had financially good game. I guess…

  6. sickre says:

    Empire – 380 hours
    Shogun 2 – 130 hours
    Warhammer – 30 hours.

    The production quality of Warhammer is great – but the fights too often devolve into mob brawls. I’ll wait until the next historical game. Hopefully it doesn’t have incessant civil wars in it – which ruined Rome 2/Atila for me.

    • BobbyDylan says:

      Didn’t buy Total Warhammer. I was really hoping this announcement would be Medieval 3.

    • MiniMatt says:

      Honestly I found the reverse. The asymmetry in the factions helped a lot – rather than various different flavours of human, one faction slightly better at shooting arrows, another slightly better at pointy sticks – they all play quite differently on the campaign map and in battle.

      Was honestly surprised (and wrong); had written off this iteration as being more of the same, but after picking it up at small Christmas sale discount it’s proved my most loved Total War.

      Agree, some of the maps tend to steer toward mob brawl (although playing Greenskins, that feels appropriate).

      • Landiss says:

        Yes, this game has by far the most varied factions from all in TW. It’s really good, especially if you like fantasy settings. It’s like those Medieval overhaul mods, only better.

        That said, it still has some irritating things and could be much better, but it’s not as bad as with typical TW game, where I always have mostly seen wasted potential.

        Now, if only someone made a mod and recreated Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen in TW engine…

        • MiniMatt says:

          recreated Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen

          Oh my! *clutches pearls*

        • Hohumm4sh3d says:

          I would lose a testicle for an updated Dark Omen. That game was awesome.

  7. Banks says:

    This is cool AF. Cant wait.

  8. ColonelFlanders says:

    Skaven really need to be that fourth race. I had thousands of points of Skaven before they ruined WHFB, and I need to see that warp lightning cannon misfire and go friggin BOOM.

    • PancakeWizard says:

      They very obviously are that fourth race. Even without the trailer showing you as much, they are the only significant faction with a presence in Lustria.

      I expect there will be a Norsca dlc though.

  9. Snowskeeper says:

    I’d like to see Tomb Kings, but they may be holding them back for the third game, I guess. Can’t really see who they’d reclaim settlements from at the mo.

  10. tabyrd32 says:

    F*** yes, I can’t wait. This game only gets better and better, I can only imagine what it will be like after the 3rd installation.

  11. Premium User Badge

    Drib says:

    I wonder if Total War Warhammer 3 will be Age of Sigmar.

    Wouldn’t that be fun? Just to watch all the folks who get so mad over it… get so mad over it?

    For what it’s worth, I own an old Ogre Kingdom army and anyone who calls them Ogors is patently incorrect.

    • Snowskeeper says:

      Given they seem to be trying to allow people to combine the maps of each game…

  12. jeremyalexander says:

    The fourth faction is the Skaven, obviously teased at the end of the trailer.

  13. Fede says:

    > “This is the first TW game where the AI can beat you to the end game objective.”

    Erm, the AI could win on Rome:TW 1 too, I’ve seen them win short campaigns at least twice.

  14. Kelvin says:

    My biggest complaint is that arrow going right through a steel breastplate. Aside from that, it’s a CGI trailer, and had little to no bearing on actual gameplay.

  15. lglethal says:

    Correct me if im wrong on my Warhammer mythology, but the Great Vortex basically sits on an island in the middle of Ulthuan (the HIgh Elves Homeland). OK i can understand the Dark Elves attacking Ulthuan (they do all the time). But I doubt the Lizardmen would be that interested in attacking. And Skaven (lets face it 4th race is definitely going to be skaven), arent renowned for building boats, so hows that going to work?

    Well whatever, I will probably buy it – I played High Elves back in the day, and cant wait to take my Dragon Princes out on a few escapades to wipe out the Dark Elves… ;)

    • Josh W says:

      The trailer suggests that people are poking lizardman capture-points that have some indirect influence on it. I imagine the slan just want their neighbours to stop messing up their weird magic things just because they are having problems with their own:

      Dark Elves – Tweak the network to make things worse for the high elves

      High Elves – Tweak the network to makee things better for themselves

      Lizardmen – Try to get everyone to put things back the way they found it.

      Skaven – Run off with unstable magic power to use it to make warpstone tech and magical plagues.

    • PhilBowles says:

      Hey, the Skaven had the best fleet in Man o’War (until the Chaos Dwarfs were released, anyway)…

      Lizardmen don’t like chaos, either with a big or little C – if the vortex interrupts their plans for the world that probably gives them reason enough to intervene. Let’s face it, in actual Warhammer games they’d be fighting everyone from Orcs to Tomb Kings and most likely in terrain resembling the Old World’s European battlefields rather than Lustria. That was never very plausible either.

  16. zulnam says:

    Dammit i wanted this as a proper expansion so that i can play on a ludicrously large map and have the option to conquer the whole world with the Dwarves!

    • Carlos Danger says:

      Had you dug a little deeper would have gotten your wish. They will patch the 2 maps together for grand campaign but it won’t happen till a little after the release of the expansion.

  17. Rizlar says:

    Everyone knows Lord Mazdamundi rides around on a triceratops, who is this imposter?

    • Snowskeeper says:

      I see that picture and all I can think is “eyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy”

  18. johnny5 says:

    I have zero interest in this universe. It’s fine that people love Warhammer, but I didn’t realize how much I liked the historical aspect until I played Warhammer. I’ll still be playing Attila until the next historical game.

    • Captain Narol says:

      You can register for Total War : Arena and if you are lucky like I’ve been get an invite for the alpha, they do closed alpha week-ends around once a month at the present state.

      Can’t tell much more because of the NDA, but you can play Romans, Greeks and Barbarians in multiplayer, RPS made a post about it some time ago if you search…

  19. PhilBowles says:

    I’m particularly impressed by how well CA have realised Warhammer’s fundamentally silly concepts and actually portrayed them in a way that makes them seem like real armies – they did well with such oddities as stag- and hawk-riding elves, and again here with the Lizardmen. Even if Mazdamundi does sound like Chewbacca.