“Below our lowest expectations” – why EVE devs CCP pulled out of VR

Six months ago, EVE Online developer CCP Games pulled out of the virtual reality market. The move came as a shock, given how well-suited and devoted CCP seemed to be to the tech, with international studios in the US and UK working on VR titles, and a tech-savvy EVE player base who were more likely to adopt VR early in its development cycle. As recently as last year’s EVE Fanfest, CEO Hilmar Veigar Pétursson had been bullish about the technology and the company’s investment in its VR teams, so last week, at this year’s Fanfest, we asked him what had changed and what went wrong.

In short, hardly anyone was playing.

“We had always braced for a slow start kind of a journey [but] we were at fractions of what people were estimating at the beginning,” CCP’s CEO Hilmar Veigar tells me, speaking at EVE Fanfest – the studio’s annual convention held in its hometown of Reykjavík, Iceland.

Citing a combination of a low install base of VR players, and low engagement from those that did own the hardware, Pétursson adds that the reception was “even below our lowest expectations.”

…”I wasn’t really, myself and other people there working in VR, [weren’t] seeing how you could start up new product development in the environment as it was at the end of last year,” he adds. “The headset install base didn’t allow for big investments, and the platform vending environment was in more of a ‘wait and see’ posture, so we just decided it’s too much risk right now.”

Yet flash back a few years, and the atmosphere was very different. At EVE Fanfest 2015, a whole section of Harpa – Reykjavík’s iconic concert hall and convention space – was given over to the company’s then-experimental VR efforts, all with excited queues of gamers waiting to test out what the studio was working on.

“I think in those years, generally there was a lot of enthusiasm for VR, amongst technology enthusiasts, which we are and our users are,” Pétursson says. “We always estimated there would be a ‘walk in the desert’, as we called it., but whether we were skewed by [early reception]?”

“I mean, this was a good bet,” he says, after pausing to reflect. “When you run a company, you have to take bets. There’s no guarantee that everything’s going to work out, and if you look at bets, this was quite a good one. Our teams executed it extremely well, we got great products, they sold quite well, they are the top of each of their genres [but it] turns out the market is going to take longer. This was a righteous bet on new technology, and it just turned out to take longer.”

Some of those early projects went on to become finished titles, with CCP ultimately targeting three areas of VR gaming. Rather than aiming at a specific release platform with each release though, the company saw each of its core titles as representative of an input or control scheme within VR. Sci-fi shooter EVE Valkyrie was aimed at seated play with a regular joypad controller, mobile spinoff EVE Gunjack was seen as a quick score rush game for mobile VR, and the TRON-like Sparc – where players slung and deflected flying discs around a futuristic arena – was for motion control VR.

The split focus speaks to the experimental, almost laissez-faire approach CCP took withhad to its VR titles, testing the waters of each style to try to find the greatest player engagement. The results were mixed, though. “Valkyrie was the greatest commercial success, Gunjack sold the most, and I think Sparc was the best VR experience. It was also the one we started latest, when we knew much more about it,” says Pétursson.

Thankfully, there is some good news for players who have engaged with CCP’s VR games. At Fanfest 2018’s opening ceremony, Pétursson praised the work of the creators who’d worked on the titles, and confirmed ongoing support for all three products released to date. The company will also “continue to investigate opportunities to bring them to wider audiences”, though with no dedicated VR team remaining, this looks to be very much a backburner project.

The games will remain available for purchase too, with Pétursson telling me there are no current plans to delist Valkyrie, Sparc, or Gunjack from digital platforms, and even saying that “if the market continues in its current slow trickle phase, they can probably stay on forever.”

Despite closing down CCP’s VR department and restructuring the company, Pétursson still sees promise in virtual reality.

“I’m very much a believer in the long term potential of VR, it’s just right now, where it sits, for a mid-sized company it’s a lot of risk to staff new developments,” he says. “This is an environment that’s very hard to make a success for a company our size, and we’d be better served doing something else.”

“It was a very difficult decision but I still believe it was the right call, because keeping [up] the effort, or even having teams work on VR when you don’t really see a great way to become successful, is not a great way to run a company and deploy teams, regardless of how much we believe in the long term potential of VR, which we [do] still believe in.”

The comparison Pétursson gives me when I ask about the likely future success of VR in the marketplace is to mobile phones, or the internet itself. Both sectors went through several cycles of boom and bust before becoming intractable fixtures of the technological landscape.

“It’s just a very classical technology adoption curve. People have a lot of enthusiasm in the beginning, then there’s a hype cycle, a tear down cycle, a recuperative cycle, a slow-growing phase, and then it becomes a thing,” Pétursson explains. “I was an ‘internet worker’ back in 1996, all the way through the bubble, when it burst in early 2000s. Then by 2010, everything is the internet. I think VR will be very similar.”

With the imminent arrival of cordless VR on PC, thanks to Oculus and Vive both launching headsets that remove the problematic tether, I suggest that perhaps CCP was premature in cutting down its VR operations. Could increasingly seamless and, more importantly, faff-free headsets increase appeal across the board?

“It’s very true, the cord is one of the things that need to be addressed, but there is more to it than that,” Pétursson says. “The ceremony of putting on a VR headset; I often liken it to putting on scuba gear to go diving. Scuba diving is an amazing experience, but it’s a lot of gear to put on, and when you have it on it’s isolating, disorienting.”

“Your body is self-aware that something isn’t right, and that small discomfort, we have to find some way to address that,” he continues. “My best idea currently is to have cameras all around, and some AI mechanism that creates situational awareness for you. But you still have to trust it, that you know your VR headset will break you [out of the simulation] if someone approaches you, break you out of the experience if something comes close, or goes to pass-through camera.”

Ultimately, the biggest obstacle to VR’s success may be timing.

“I think there’s a lot on the tech side that needs to be tweaked, but we’re now in a technology adoption situation which is more a cultural thing than it is a [hardware] thing,” Pétursson offers. “I think there is a generation of people that has to grow up with it. Giving it to people who are set in their ways when it comes to interacting with computers is a hard paradigm to disrupt. You can see this a little bit in mobile – the pure mobile-born generation, that demographic will never really use computers. Let’s not forget, it took a long time for mobile phones to become a thing. From the gigantic phones, to car phones, to the NMT in the Nordics, to having rudimentary mobile phones, to feature phones, to Blackberries, to the iPhone, to the AppStore – that was all many decades. It’s hard to place where VR is – I think it’s in the car phone stage.”

“VR is probably going to take 30 years to become a thing,” Pétursson says. “The question is: where are you going to start counting?”

For the time being then, one of the biggest evangelists for virtual reality is effectively done with the technology. Its existing works will continue to be supported, but not expanded – Pétursson confirms the total closure of its dedicated VR operations – but players shouldn’t rule out the company making a return when the medium, and the technology underpinning it, is in a better place.

103 Comments

  1. BeefChesthair says:

    They should have asked me, I could have told them that virtual boy 2 was a gimmick in the kickstarter phase. I might not have even charged them for it.

    • ScarlettBates says:

      My last pay check was 9k D0llar working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do… Click Here And Start Work

    • Det. Bullock says:

      This is not Virtual Boy 2, the Virtual Boy was a failure all around even if a acurious one. VR is more a specialized high end flightsim accessory like TrackIR that someone somehow thought could be sold to the mainstream consumers. Because differently from the Virtual Boy it seems to work fine for what it does but it’s too costly for the non-enthusiast and only really works with games that are either gimmicky or of genre that aren’t mainstream in the first place like all kinds of first person vehicle games like spacesims, flight simulators, tank games, mech games and the more hardcore racing games. A lot of these genres aren’t just outside the mainstream but are either not made anymore, require too many resources to fit VR in or are games that many prefer to play in third person when given the chance.

      • DoomBroom says:

        You are underestimating what makes a good VR game. Have you tried any VR games? especially any of the high rated ones on Steam and Oculus Store? Sprint Vector? Rec Room? Skyrim VR? Lone Echo and Echo Arena? GORN? Robo Recall? In Death? Arizona Sunshine? Onward?the list goes on. All those are non cockpit games BTW. First person games actually work pretty well if designed properly for VR. First Person Shooters are probably the most popular genre in VR. And developers are doing some amazing things with the tech. Like this recent demo from GDC: link to youtube.com and the upcoming Budget Cuts link to youtube.com

        And if you can afford a decent monitor for your computer you can afford VR. The equipment cost anywhere from £300-500. Gamers regularly buy computer parts at that price point, many of them have the minimum specs to run VR too.

        • mistery says:

          But not everyone that can afford a monitor can afford the hw to run a VR headset. And most those games you mentioned, are like modern arcade pistol controller games like House of the Living Dead. Yeah, ok Skyrim is nice, if playing 7 yo game now in VR is your thing. I would like a headset to play Assetto Corsa, and not much else really, at this point.

      • Det. Bullock says:

        I would have tried if I could but where I live there aren’t even those mythical VR tryouts stands in shops people keep yaping about.
        Also define “decent”.
        In my case “decent” is 24″ 1080p and that was 138 Euros which is not nearly the kind of cash you are talking about.
        Most VR FPS are basically railshooters from what I could see, I already have my old Rebel Assault CD for that thank you. And even for the ones that aren’t there seem to be problems due to the disconnect between in’game movement and real-life sitting-in-a-chair like nausea and disorientation which aren’t issues in games where you drive a vehicle in first person according to what I read. Again, if I could splurge 400 Euros on a VR headset even without any guarante I’m not one of those people that cannot use it because they get motion sick I probably would, but I can’t hence the qualifiers my post was filled with.

        • MrEvilGuy says:

          The above comments seem to be the only intelligent ones on this page. Yes VR is amazing and especially tailored to simulators and non-mainstream games, but its mainstream quota is increasing. Skyrim was a huge success both commercially and critically (though only for PC, the PSVR version is garbage, which may be confusing certain individuals below). Games like Superhot and others listed above are incredible. Open world movement is a ton of fun, and rail shooters suck. Serious Sam has yet to make me feel sick. Flight sims in VR are godly, provided you have HOTAS.

    • Kitsunin says:

      If you think VR doesn’t have long-term potential I’d advise checking out Bunnyhop’s review of Playstation VR.

    • Rack says:

      Sure they could have asked you for your staggeringly ill-informed opinion. And, in this case it might have done them good to follow it. It’s still a Texas sharpshooter fallacy though.

  2. SaintAn says:

    Who really cares what CCP has to say? They’re a joke. They lucked into their one hit wonder EVE and are not capable of anything else. They failed at spinoffs, they failed at new IP’s (that they sat on for years and then sold to a horrible corporation that is becoming EA), failed at VR, they even failed at many EVE updates.

    • mitrovarr says:

      Yeah, CCP is notorious for being extremely timid with anything that isn’t EVE, pulling out of the project at the absolute first sign of risk. For it to end this way isn’t a surprise – any other result at all, that would have been a surprise.

    • brutaldeluxe09 says:

      I’d never heard of CCP before this article though I have heard of EVE and I found it quite interesting to read.

      It was always going to be a risk going big into VR development so soon but I’m glad somebody was going into it with ambition even if it didn’t work out as well as it could have.

    • Someoldguy says:

      We should care, because they’re one of the companies that made a serious attempt at bringing titles to VR.

      I believe his point about the isolation and disorientation of a VR set is an important one. Mobile gaming, love it or hate it, is ubiquitous at this point because it can travel with you wherever you go and is ready to play at a few seconds notice. You may concentrate so hard on your phone that you don’t notice much going on around you but the audio and visual cues are reaching you, even if you don’t process them quickly. If something happens, you can pocket your phone and respond almost instantly.

      By contrast VR is an all-or-nothing experience. You have to set aside time exclusively for it and are cut off from everyone else while you participate. It’s back to the old stereotype of people sitting in a darkened room for hours on end locked into an MMO and unable to have any social life outside of their raid group.

      The clunking great headsets don’t help, either. I think it’s going to be a while before you can VR with a pair of sunglasses, ear buds, lightweight gloves all run through whatever we call the multimedia object that the mobile phone is evolving into. Once it’s got that far the software should be smart enough to break into your simulation when external events need to be responded to, whether that’s your train pulling into the station, a friend calling you or your mother yelling it’s dinner time.

      • SaintAn says:

        They didn’t make a serious attempt at VR, they made a bad overpriced game to cash in on VR’s lack of games.

        That does not qualify them to talk about the subject of VR. You don’t seem to understand the subject either tbh.

      • BeardyHat says:

        I know I’m a few days late, but: Spot on!

        I’ve been trying to explain this to a friend and you’ve just given me the perfect analogy.

        I would have absolutely loved VR when I was 15 and able to do exactly as described. Unfortunately, I’m an old man with a family now and I want to be able to rapidly turn my attention to different places and locking myself into something just doesn’t make that happen for me.

        Hell, I like to work on cars and I have to plan my weekends for time to wrench. I have to find childcare (if my wife is unavailable or wants to do something else) and make sure I have nothing special going on on a particular day to even be able to get out to the garage in the first place, let alone spend a couple of hours out there.

        Further, it’s just lower on the priority list now. I have less disposable income, so it’s going to go to the hobbies which I’m currently more interested in, which, frankly, don’t include solitary gaming.

    • Bishop51 says:

      Indeed! 30 years? I mean, put down the crack pipe already. Maybe if you’re counting from early 90s. The right hardware, the right software prove that VR delivers a paradigm shifting experience RIGHT NOW.

      A MASSIVE problem for VR right now is mainstream press ignoring it because it doesn’t drive clicks. That with a general misunderstanding of which hardware is “good”, which experiences are worth playing, which experiences use proper best practices, cost, OEM investment in middle tier development, etc.

      VR has problems right now but few of them have to do with the technology itself. The tipping point is much closer to 2020 ;)

  3. Flarn says:

    “one of the biggest evangelists for virtual reality is effectively done with the technology”

    One of the biggest? Really? Quite a stretch there. CCP is a joke and no one wanted to play their VR games because they weren’t good. They want to blame the platform or the low install base but really it’s just because they made games people didn’t really want to play.

    • Bull0 says:

      Yeah, I have a VR setup and haven’t got round to playing Valkyrie because I kind of just expect it not to be good. I did play Gunjack on my phone VR and that was alright, I guess.

  4. Shaun239 says:

    With the initial cost of a VR setup so high, and lots of people stuck renting flats the size of a shoebox, is this really such a surprise?

    • Sakkura says:

      It is not that expensive. Gaming monitors generally cost more.

      • Det. Bullock says:

        I can play normal non-VR Elite: Dangerous with a 250 Euros Video Card and a 150 Euros monitor, if I want to play Elite in VR I need that amount of money for the headset alone and this discounting that probably I’d need a GTX 1080 or something like that to play decently. The problem is that whatever you can play with a gaming monitor can be played easily with an inexpensive one, VR has only the “gaming monitor” price category and basically nobody but a few people can afford it, detract those that get motion sickness from VR and you have a very restricted user base.

        • Sakkura says:

          You can play Elite Dangerous with a 200 Euro graphics card and a 250 Euro VR headset.

          LOTS of people can afford this. 44% of GPUs on Steam are VR-ready.

          • Det. Bullock says:

            Never heard of any vr headsets for PC under 400 Euros.
            And even then you would require a beast of a video card because a lot of people need a steady frame rate to avoid nausea.
            “Vr ready” doesn’t mean they are optimal for VR and I sicnerely doubt that 44% of GPUs on steam are capable of delivering a rock-steady 75fps frame rate at twice the workload of a normal non vr game.

          • Sakkura says:

            Windows Mixed Reality headsets.

            You don’t need a beast of a graphics card. You need one that’s barely above the average on Steam. Then there’s no nausea.

          • FriendlyFire says:

            The Rift is 450 euros, so it’ll go under the 400 euros mark on sale, and it comes with motion controllers and cameras. Much better experience than WMR headsets for barely more money.

          • Det. Bullock says:

            OK, I’ll try to be as inequivocable as possible:
            1- I never saw one under 300 Euros (and I shudder to think of the corner-cutting of that particular model) and already getting that 250 Euros video card was quite an expense for me;
            2- I don’t have the possibility to try one for free because here, even going to the mainland, not one of the bigass electronics and videogame shops has ever set up a VR stand to my knowledge;
            3- I don’t have space for roomscale (no, I cannot move to another home) and at the moment there are only two games I have that I might be interested to play in VR (Elite and House of The Dying Sun) and neither are games that I play that extensively to warrant such an expense.

        • DoomBroom says:

          Most gamers nowadays have the computing power to run VR, Rift minimum specs are: GTX 960 and Vive 970. link to support.oculus.com link to store.steampowered.com Monitors do also cost more or less the same as a VR headset. link to newegg.com Acer MR is around £260 Rift is £400 and Vive £500. And regarding Elite Dangerous it is actually very comfortable in VR especially compared to EVE Valkyrie that was very hard on the stomach, CCP did a poor job in regard to comfort. Most VR games do have comfort options to suit everyone, VR sickness is generally not a problem if you adjust your comfort options accordingly. And with roomscale and teleport there is absolutely no motion sickness, that is if you can reach the recommended stable framerate, running under spec will give you issues.

      • DatonKallandor says:

        You need to stop buying gold-plated monitors, jesus. I can buy 3 monitors for the price of a VR headset.

        • DoomBroom says:

          But will those monitors give you the same experience? No. With monitors you’re staring at a flat screen and controlling a character. With VR you’re inside the game as the character with fricking superpowers and guns in your hands! Big difference. link to youtube.com

          • Det. Bullock says:

            If I could afford the money for VR I’d probably have a 1080ti instead of a RX 580 miraculously found at MSRP. :/

          • Archonsod says:

            Yeah, but with that big monitor I can also binge watch a bunch of movies or a TV series without feeling like my neck has compressed into nothingness. It’s kind of where the problem is at the moment – VR might be nice for gaming, but it sucks for just about everything else you can do with a computer. If I have five hundred quid to spend on my PC I’m therefore far more likely to get a better monitor on the simple basis that I’m going to get far more use out of it than a VR headset. I doubt VR is going to see widespread adoption until it’s at the point it can compete with a monitor in terms of price and utility.

          • kwyjibo says:

            With a monitor, I can use Microsoft fucking Excel. A monitor is a necessary expense, a good one is somewhat a luxury, but nothing in the league of VR.

            Fucking £500 for a Vive. That you will only use once every few weeks for a tiny subset of games. And the hardware’s still not good enough.

            Maybe when the quality is as good as the Vive Pro and it costs less than a console, it’ll be worth talking about. We’re not all Alec “Made of Money” Meer.

        • Sakkura says:

          You can get a VR headset for $200. You might be able to buy 3 monitors for about $200, but they’d be the absolute bottom of the barrel garbage.

          For a budget gaming monitor you’re already talking $150+, and they scale waaaay up from there. RPS just had a review of a gaming monitor costing over a thousand bucks.

          • iainl says:

            In the US you can get a Windows MR set for just over $200 in that sale. Here in the U.K. they are still £400, by which point you’re more realistically going to get a £450 Rift.

          • Rosveen says:

            Shockingly, not everyone lives in the US.

            I can get Windows MR for $350 if I order it from Amazon US and that’s the cheapest option I can see. Buying in my country would cost almost $600, the price on Amazon DE is only a little lower.

          • Det. Bullock says:

            Yeah, here in Europe I’ve never seen these low prices some VR believers keep yapping about every time someone dares citing the costs as a drawback.

      • brucethemoose says:

        Which isn’t saying much. Gaming monitors cost more than good TVs that are 4x the size and 2x the resolution.

        For what? 120hz input and maybe a backlight strobe, or a adaptive sync module? That adds far less to the BOM than a interpolation/processing ASIC (which is what adds the input lag) or a higher quality backlight, they just don’t bother to add those features because they aren’t targeting the gamer market (yet).

      • MajorLag says:

        Have you seen the price of video cards lately? With VR you aren’t just talking about the VR hardware itself, but the computing hardware necessary to interact with it.

        • Shaun239 says:

          My issue is I’m not willing to invest that much money into an experience that I may or may not enjoy.

          To me, a headset is a significant expense, andwhile I may very well be an outlier; I have yet to try – or even know anybody who owns a proper vr headset (not counting mobile ones.)

          Imo htc et al should have put more effort into demo kiosks etc so that people could find out what they were buying or missing out on if they’d really wanted VR to flourish.

    • Massenstein says:

      This is why I’m not even thinking about buying one yet. Maybe way into the future when the tech works better, there’s more games using it and above all everything’s more affordable I might be somewhat interested. Until then I’m perfectly happy with 2d monitors.

  5. mercyRPG says:

    Good decision CCP dropping VR. Good riddance!!!

  6. morganjah says:

    I love VR, but I don’t need VR to interact with people being jerks. I’m guessing the sociopaths that play Eve are partly that way because they never get any exercise, which is why the ‘heavy’ headset is so grueling to them.

    • Sin Vega says:

      What excercise do you do, exactly, that requires lifting bulky weights with your head?

      • morganjah says:

        I bike 10 hours a week with a helmet on my head, lift weights, but seriously, my ten year old son can wear the headset without difficulty, and he doesn’t even notice the cord.
        There is plenty of legitimate critiques of VR, but ‘I’m too weak to wear the headset’ is just pathetic.
        If that is really a complaint, then intervention is required. Sell the computer, go outside and get some exercise. That is if strength yet remains enough to turn a doorknob.

        • HothMonster says:

          Did I miss something in the article or are you raging against a complete strawman right now?

          I see no mention of it being too heavy or hurting anyone’s delicate neck.

        • Archonsod says:

          It’s not about the weight. Anything around the head tends to get uncomfortable after a couple of hours, unless you particularly enjoy stewing in your own sweat. There’s a reason spectacles have retained the same shape for the past few centuries.

      • gi_ty says:

        Hopefully not coming across as negative but nearly all shoulder exercise increases neck strength and resilience. Side lifting very light dumbells from your side to even with your neck, over head lifting, shrugging all of theses affect muscles in your neck mostly indirectly. There are even dedicated machines at most gyms where you will move wieghts by pulling your head towards your shoulder. I believe this was the point morganjah was trying to make whilst being a arrogant twit as well. Seriously need to work on that superiority syndrome it seems you have taken to.

        • morganjah says:

          Superiority?
          To whom?
          I’m guessing the real number of people in the world who can’t handle the weight of a VR headset is minuscule. And significantly smaller now that Stephen Hawkins is dead.
          I don’t find the complaint credible, which is why I get tired of seeing it repeated ad nauseum in every VR article.
          It’s up there with the constant complaint that a person ‘looks silly’ with the headset on.
          Who are these people that are in such horrible physical shape that they can’t handle the weight of a headset, yet at the same time are obsessed with what all the other people in their supposedly cramped flat think of them when they manage the Herculean task of wearing it?

          • DudeshootMankill says:

            I barely even skimmed your post and you come off as an arrogant and annoying twit.

        • morganjah says:

          What’s up with all the ad hominum attacks and invective on RPS today?

          • Someoldguy says:

            Your original post referring to an entire class of gamers being jerks, sociopaths and lacking exercise might have something to do with it. If you throw around aspersions you tend to get pushback.

          • gi_ty says:

            Agreed I usually try to avoid invective, but your post set me off by disparaging an entire group of people based on your own ancedotal experience. That is the definitive example of a egotistical superior attitude. Your saying your better than the ephmeral them ,which is a construct of your own emotional framework and not something you could ever actually know. That kind of attitude (My way is the right way), is the epicenter of all prejudice, and I will call it out for what it is when I see it.

          • morganjah says:

            No. I referred to people who play Eve as generally being jerks. Which is a widely known phenomenon. And here come some Eve players to refute this non-controversial opinion, by….

          • Someoldguy says:

            Nope, that’s your prejudice talking again. You won’t find me singing Eve’s praises.

          • Someoldguy says:

            Plus there are a lot of very nice EVE players who go out of their way to welcome in newcomers.

      • brucethemoose says:

        You don’t even need weights. Im no expert, but heel touches and hyperextensions in particular seem to work my neck.

  7. abstrarie says:

    It is a shame because EVE Valkyrie was a pretty good game. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination (and rather lackluster without the VR bells and whistles) but I had a lot of fun playing it on PSVR.

    I still don’t really understand the hate that people spew about VR games and how so many seem to root for it to fail. All my experience is on PSVR which is supposed to be technologically the weakest and I have had a blast. Wipeout is amazing. RIGS, EVE Valkyrie and Moss are great. Weird little indie games like GNOG are fun too. There is a lot of shovelware right now, but there is alot of shovelware non-VR games too so I don’t see the issue.

    • terryterryd says:

      I love PSVR. It was the affordable way I could do it. My son had the PS4 and, by luck, his mate was selling off his PSVR kit (with games) to make a bit of cash… so I was then on-board for £250 about a year ago. Since then I have purchase a number of other VR titles and thoroughly enjoyed it: I love the immersion on games that I probably would not play a great deal of otherwise eg SuperHot or WipeOut

  8. Kefren says:

    A problem may be that they were all shallow multiplayer games. Whereas I wanted to play deep single player games. VR is so immersive that it is ideal for that. The fact that CCP’s VR games didn’t sell so much could be partly because of the kind of games they were.

    A Skyrim or Fallout that actually uses proper controls and UI (e.g. open doors by reaching out and pulling the handle; drink potions by tipping it into your mouth; change weapons by just throwing the old one away and picking up a new one, or attaching it to your belt) would be amazing. But companies keep releasing tiny games, shallow games, or games with cruddy UI and controls. Robo Recall is flawed, but it certainly shows what you can do with an immersive and fun control scheme.

  9. ThePeon26 says:

    The only thing VR probably will be good for is VR porn. I mean I seen the games and VR ports of older games all I can do is like Spock lift one eye brow and say. I find VR being something great is highly illogical.

    • DoomBroom says:

      But have you tried any of the games? Seeing them on a flat monitor don’t compare to actually being in VR. And the Holodeck disagrees with you.

      • DatonKallandor says:

        I’ve tried VR, both whatever-the-Valve-one-is-called and Playstation VR. They were both incredibly underwhelming.

    • FriendlyFire says:

      You haven’t tried VR, have you?

      • ThePeon26 says:

        No I have not and don´t plan to not paying nearly 500 bucks for some shit with games that seams more lame than Tetris or as broken both fallout and Skyrim clearly has been so nope never gonna try overpriced junk sure if you wanna have it to fap to VR porn that´s your call.

        • jakinbandw says:

          There are a bunch of great VR games, and even though there are no massive blockbuster games yet (Like a well made version of skyrim) the good ones like Superhot and The Climb are a lot of fun for the workouts you get playing them. I could have bought an exercise machine I would never use for $500 or a VR machine which has limited games with a lot of replayability I use 4-5 times a week. I know which one is better for my health and my wallet.

          • aepervius says:

            I have tried vr on multiple plateform and frankly it is gimmicky. Maybe at some point there will be a killer app. But beyond the visual at the moment there is nothing vr offer which us that godly great to warrant the periphereals prices.

        • fish99 says:

          Skyrim VR isn’t broken, I’ve played 40 hours of it. Also never having experienced something doesn’t exactly give weight to your opinion of it.

    • Kowie says:

      “probably only ever be good for vr pron” oh you troll.

  10. nimbulan says:

    I’m surprised stories like these don’t happen more often. The VR market is miniscule and the market’s been flooded by an intense wave of developer enthusiasm, though that seems to be waning recently. From the numbers I’ve seen only a handful of VR games have sold well so I can’t imagine that many people are making money in VR right now.

    • aepervius says:

      They (vr set maker) wanted to avoid the chicken and egg situation i think where the user wanted to wait for big software base, and software maker fir a big user base. So nany if those game, at least initially, were sub financed or helped by headset maker thus the flood. In theory it makes sense in practice it was quantity but for many of us, quality was lacking. Whether that stay the same as dev are porting big game to vr like fallout 4 or skyrim is open. Imo vr is a fad and will stay that until price crash ir killer app come. Neither is the case today, price headset still very high, no killer app.

  11. bloodnok says:

    Speaking as the average pretend sociopath, I wish they’d stop spending the EVE income on things that aren’t EVE. Every few years CCP thinks they’ve got the next best thing and every few years it’s a disaster and loses a lump of money. EVE’s never going to be everyone’s cup of tea but I can’t help but feel CCP would be better off spending that cash on making their one successful game more attractive to the people who do enjoy that kind of thing.

  12. TrenchFoot says:

    The always recurring VR hype and crash. I hear it will be a big thing in 20 years, said someone 20 years ago.

    • Premium User Badge

      Malarious says:

      The tech’s actually pretty much here now, though. Immersive VR was a pipe dream 10 years ago; anything short of a GTX1070 just couldn’t push the raw pixels you need for a high refresh rate, decent resolution experience. Any “VR” where you can’t even read a street sign is doomed to fail, and we’ve only just reached the raw computing power where it’s viable to render a 3D scene at 90hz+ and 2880×1600 pixels. I have a 1080TI and a Vive Pro and text is still kind of blurry: the screen tech is just only barely good enough and GPUs to power them are just around the corner. The first generation of headsets where we get 4k screens + foveated rendering will be a gamechanger.

    • grimdanfango says:

      How is something that had one big, stupid hype explosion 20 years ago, looong before the technology was available to do it even a hint of justice, “always recurring”?

  13. racccoon says:

    The best VR is what comes out of your eye sockets and we are lucky to able to do that. Some people can’t even see. I think adding a plate in front of your eyes that’s not clear or helpful to your vision is totally redundant.
    Until the day they can actually use brain patterns for hallucinogenic gaming, its just not going to be a good idea helping you visually with a bright window set upon your eyes, its nothing more than self infliction.
    VR is a good concept for robotics, space, military, and of course to help the blind, etc.

  14. fish99 says:

    I’ve looked into buying this a few times and been put off by reviews so, maybe it didn’t sell well because it’s not that great?

  15. morganjah says:

    So, what I gather, is that there are a bunch of really, really angry people who have never tried VR that hate the fact that it exists.

    • abstrarie says:

      Yeah nothing brings out the gamer rage like VR. I really don’t know why. It is just another option to play games and the well made ones like Wipeout are incredible.

      • aepervius says:

        If it was true you would have a point, but unfortunately far far too many people do what I call “VR evangelism” and try to convicne everybody it is the next rgeat thing. But quite a few people whatever their reason are not interested (nausea, not interested by what is offered, turned off feeling “forced”, or are simply failing to find any killer app which would be great beyond the 15 minutes joy). So what happens when the two bunch mix ? There is a counter reaction to VR evangelism. That may be enough to account for the 90% of the hate you will find.

        • abstrarie says:

          I don’t think there are many of these so called “VR evangelists” you speak of unless you mean the people who make/market the things (which doesn’t really count because that is their job). I haven’t seen any evangelism in this thread. I honestly think most people don’t like it because they think it is too out of their reach to play (too expensive, requires too much space, makes them sick, etc) and just want to grief people who have good experiences with it. I see lots of excuses to hate on the tech, but not much logic or reason behind it. The prices/specs will keep coming down (and PSVR is relatively affordable if you are one of the millions of people that already have a PS), there are tons of fleshed out game experiences already available (the whole “everything is a tech demo” schtick stopped being true a while ago), and there are games that don’t involve lateral camera movement for the motion sick crowd (my always motion sick GF loves playing Moss). The hate is silly. if you don’t like it after having tried it, that is fine, but hating on other people doesn’t make any sense.

    • bloodnok says:

      That’s unfortunate. I think what you ought to gather is that when you start with a personal attack and then continue by ranting about a criticism (“headsets are too heavy”) which isn’t actually in the article, you don’t make any friends. But then, what do us space sociopaths know about that?

      • morganjah says:

        Ah. Another Eve player. I’m glad you’re taking the time off from griefing strangers in Eve to rage at strangers on the internet. Otherwise, I presume, you would be otherwise occupying your time by poisoning your neighbor’s puppy.

        • bloodnok says:

          Thank you for neatly illustrating my point as to why you’re not making any friends.

          • morganjah says:

            What is a ‘friend’ to an Eve player? Someone who skipped out to the loo for a moment so you can gank their miner? A new player in a starter ship that you spend an evening griefing with your cruiser, blowing them up over and over again?
            Jeffrey Dahmer had ‘friends’ like Eve players have ‘friends’. He ate them.

        • bloodnok says:

          On reflection the bit about raging at strangers on the Internet is the most curious bit of this. I could be wrong, but I think I know where the rage is outpouring from.

  16. dorobo says:

    I think it’s the curse of the DOOR they never opened :)

  17. Zhiroc says:

    I’m frankly not very interested in VR. I don’t value “immersion”–I don’t turn down the lights, I don’t usually use a headset (and if I do, it’s just earbuds because I don’t want to interfere with whatever my family is doing in the room). I don’t have a “gaming room”. If I did do VR, I’d only really be interested in ones where you don’t have to move around (including swinging arms, etc.)–I’m a couch player, which is why I’ve largely gone to console gaming, and if I’m playing on PC, I’m using a laptop–I don’t even have a desktop system, and neither does anyone else in the house. The most I’d be willing to pay for a headset is probably in the US$100-150 range, which would make it still by about a factor of 2 the most expensive gaming-specific purchase I’d have ever made outside of the laptop. I am also fairly prone to motion sickness particularly on PC, so I’m not even sure I could tolerate it. I also wear glasses (and progressive focus ones at that, along with quite a lot of astigmatism correction) which is probably also problematic.

  18. jeremyalexander says:

    The problems with VR have largely been solved with the new wireless VIVE. Aside from the largest problem, which is the cost.If the wireless VIVE sold for 300 or less, then VR would be more mainstream. I had a chance to play a little Fallout 4 VR on a neighbors old VIVE along with a couple other games and it physically hurts to go play games now on my “tiny” little 52″tv. The sensation of scale and of being in these locations is sensational. But to play them, I need to upgrade my computer, buy a VIVE, and get the games and that would represent the most money I’ve ever spent in one shot outside of buying a car or house and I can’t justify that at this point. I’m saving, but at this rate I’m worried that in the 2 years it’s going to take me to set enough aside, the industry will abandon VR.

  19. Alberto says:

    What a pile of raging rage, some of the commebts! The guy on the interview is right, we’re at the beginning of this tech, and right now it’s a clumsy expensive gimmick for enthusiasts. Nobody defending the hardware as “affordable” or even “cheap” considers the fact everybody knows we’re going to have a new version of the Oculus Vive every 2 years, each one more expensive and less crappy than the last one.

    Why buying the headset now? The cordless versions are coming. And when those are here, then, why save money, if the [whatever improvement versions] are already announced in a few months? Because there’s two or three games that don’t suck?

    That’s a valid reason for a few, but not for a lot of people.

    • Sakkura says:

      New versions won’t necessarily be more expensive.

      Also, wireless versions are already here.

    • bloodnok says:

      VR isn’t unusual there, though – almost everything in gaming is going to get better and cheaper if you wait, but you still want something to do now.

      A friend of mine has a Rift for Elite, and he’s very satisfied with it; sure, it might be cheaper in 2 years’ time but he’s being satisfied with it right now.

  20. titaniumapple1 says:

    I think he’s bang on with his assessment. Give it another 15-20 years and it might be worth it

  21. milligna says:

    The game was also fucking trash, nowhere near as fun to fly the ships as Elite.

  22. geldonyetich says:

    I don’t think VR was as large a factor of EVE Valkryie being below expectations as they seem to think.

    Look at ANY arena-based game: you’re either popular and addictive enough to sustain a playerbase or you’re the 99% of them that don’t. Yes, it’s not a FPS, but the same principle applies to MOBAs and vehicle simulators. Just how many successful arena-based shooters does CCP have to set their expectations that they were going to do well here?

    Granted, VR might have had a negative impact because of it’s low install base. Conversely, though, VR being a new medium probably sustained interest in EVE Valkyrie longer than it would have otherwise. I look at this and say that, in the end, it ultimately couldn’t make up for the decision to be an arena-based shooter, a largely over-established genre.

    There are some other games they made, but honestly I didn’t really hear about them. They kinda passed under the radar. Might ben advertising thing there, but I suspect they just didn’t make an impact in the wake of better-made VR titles.

  23. grimdanfango says:

    If they went into VR in the first place with the expectation of making much money, then they were idiots.

    A lot of people seem to have bought into this preposterous fallacy that VR *had* to hit the market like a ton of bricks, and be a massive day-1 success, or die trying.

    It was never going to happen. It’s early days for an emerging technology with so many new component technologies that all need time to build up into a viable platform.
    What VR always needed was time and experimentation… not a gold-rush.

    CCP imagined, wrongly, that they could jump in right at the beginning and be VR’s “killer app” even with a rushed out, fairly basic, nausea-inducing space shooter, and rake in the millions.
    They shouldn’t really have any right to complain that their misguided cash-grab didn’t pay off.

    My main concern at this point is only whether all the bad press generated from fools like these abandoning it, end up convincing too many people that VR is a dying fad.

  24. Elric666 says:

    “It’s going to take 30 years for VR to become a thing”???

    Cold fusion and strong AI are going to take 30 years to become a thing. VR is becoming a thing right now.

  25. ShieldSean says:

    I played Eve Gunjack by CCP, it’s mostly lame and repetitive. It’s basically a 3D first person version of something like Space Invaders. So it looks good for a game or two, and then you really have no interest in continuing. So shame on CCP for not putting in the effort to make an actual good 3D title… Well not like they are really any good at creating story or interest or any kind of draw to a game. And yes I played Eve for a bit too, also shallow, repetitive and not that interesting over more than a few weeks.

  26. Rvideo says:

    Well, CCP Vr games are simply below gamers lowest expectations ! I tried both Valkyrie and Gunjack : They are both dull.
    I understand people who doesn’t like VR, unless they tried it !
    I do not understand people who wishes VR to fail. If I don’t like something, I just don’t care.

    Sorry for my english, I’m not english native speaker.

  27. Brothabear says:

    Oh WOOOW VR failed? Ya don’t say? must be a day that ends in Y. a required peripheral that ranges from $400 to $800 with a lack luster selection of games. Headtracking is king, but VR is an adopted stepchild.

  28. Marclev says:

    Quote: “The headset install base didn’t allow for big investments”

    It didn’t occur to them to research that one before embarking on this course?

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