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  1. #1
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    Am I the only person with roguelike phobia? [originally from RPS Discussion]

    It is getting so you can not read a game review without encountering the dreaded word 'roguelike'. It is liberally used to describe many formats including platformers, dungeon crawlers, 3d isometric's et al.

    All seem very different yet out comes the term rogulelike yet again.

    I reckon if challenged, most of us can not recall exactly what the original Rogue game was, and much less have played it.

    Yet it is used by all as a generic term which I suspect is just a lazy way of getting a few more words in the article to pad it out.

    Please cease, desist from doing this and find another more descriptive way of introducing a review beore I go on a roguelike rampage!!!

  2. #2
    Network Hub Koobazaur's Avatar
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    Funnily I've been hearing TotalBiscuit say the same thing basically, that the term has been so diluted it's nearly useless. He elaborated on it quite a bit in the 5 gaming terms he wishes would go away video (or sth like that).

    Sadly, as most of media, lots of gaming terms have become vapid hype-generators (Epic, Procedural, Cinematic etc.) Even the traditional genre definitions are muddy these days ("oh look it has stats so CLEARLY it's an RPG!")
    Comrade, Listen! The Glorious Commonwealth's first Airship has been compromised! Who is the saboteur? Who can be saved? Uncover what the passengers are hiding and write the grisly conclusion of its final hours in an open-ended, player-driven adventure. Dziekujemy! -- Karaski: What Goes Up...

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BillButNotBen's Avatar
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    You have a phobia for "roguelike games", or a phobia for the term "roguelike"?

    Personally, I have tried Rogue. It's dull as hell.
    I was listening to Crate and Crowbar and I realised that almost every game they were discussing they were talking about failing on their first or second play attempt, but improving on later ones. It made me realise how common the general concept of games that you're meant to fail and repeat has become.

    Personally, I don't enjoy that kind of experience, so I'm finding a lot of recent games don't appeal to me.

  4. #4
    A number of very poor experiences with Binding of Isaac made me dislike Roguelikes. Even FTL, while I could see the engagement of it, left me with just a sour taste in my mouth by making its most dramatic moments the times when you game over; it's like the writer who ONLY builds up characters to make their deaths more tragic.

    The worst part is the randomization.
    "Okay, so I want to get better at this game. What should I do here?"
    "Well, if you can get a Helm of Enlightenment in the first five floors, that should help."
    "I didn't."
    "Oh, well, then okay, it's not your lack of skill, you've just had bad luck."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana View Post
    A number of very poor experiences with Binding of Isaac made me dislike Roguelikes. Even FTL, while I could see the engagement of it, left me with just a sour taste in my mouth by making its most dramatic moments the times when you game over; it's like the writer who ONLY builds up characters to make their deaths more tragic.

    The worst part is the randomization.
    "Okay, so I want to get better at this game. What should I do here?"
    "Well, if you can get a Helm of Enlightenment in the first five floors, that should help."
    "I didn't."
    "Oh, well, then okay, it's not your lack of skill, you've just had bad luck."

    I've not yet played BoI, but FTL is being merciless. I played a solid session yesterday, and I was cussing at the game more often than not. I'm playing it at normal, with none of the Alien content enabled, and still manage to get killed in the sixth sector.

    Making a game hinge on random events as well as player skill level makes for more replay-value as well as game lifespan. IMO, indie devs depend on this to make their games appeal for longer. By making the game shit on the players regularly till the players learn to cope is the new "challenge" game now.

    Except Dark Souls. ;)

  6. #6
    Moderator alms's Avatar
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    I don't see that this thread really pertains to RPS discussion, given that, as far as I've had a chance to read RPS, they try to avoid using the expression "roguelike" for anything that isn't truly one, and they've used alternative terms like roguelikelikes, roguelites or roguelike elements to highlight the difference.

    The industry certainly has a sweet spot for using buzzwords, often twisting and hollowing out their original meaning, though it's certainly not exclusive to the gaming industry, if anything I would give RPS kudos for not going with the flow.

    Eventually, IMO, this thread should find a new home in PC Gaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koobazaur View Post
    Funnily I've been hearing TotalBiscuit say the same thing basically, that the term has been so diluted it's nearly useless. He elaborated on it quite a bit in the 5 gaming terms he wishes would go away video (or sth like that).
    I could definitely agree it's about time people stop calling roguelikes games that clearly are not, roguelikes still exist so how are we supposed to refer them anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koobazaur View Post
    Sadly, as most of media, lots of gaming terms have become vapid hype-generators (Epic, Procedural, Cinematic etc.) Even the traditional genre definitions are muddy these days ("oh look it has stats so CLEARLY it's an RPG!")
    Don't forget "indie" :)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillButNotBen View Post
    Personally, I have tried Rogue. It's dull as hell.
    :O Heresy! Show some respect for venerable text-mode era classics!
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  7. #7
    The Unofficial RPS Style Guide (which doesn't exist, and is followed infrequently at best) says: unless an actual Roguelike, use 'roguelikelike'.

    That's the opposite of "a lazy way of getting a few more words in the article to pad it out", though. Usually that one word is to avoid saying "procedurally-generated layouts, discovery and experimentation, high difficulty, and probably permadeath, yet persistent progression of a sort through expanding your knowledge".

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BillButNotBen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    :O Heresy! Show some respect for venerable text-mode era classics!
    Citizen Kane is also dull.
    And don't get me started on Jayne Eyre...

  9. #9
    Moderator alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillButNotBen View Post
    Citizen Kane
    ...let's not go there?

    :P
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  10. #10
    Lesser Hivemind Node Aerothorn's Avatar
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    The collected works of Shakespeare are hot garbage.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BillButNotBen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerothorn View Post
    The collected works of Shakespeare are hot garbage.
    Except the one with Care Danes.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerothorn View Post
    The collected works of Shakespeare are hot garbage.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...TheeToANunnery
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy
    Hamlet: That's a fair thought to lie between a maid's legs.
    Ophelia: What is, my lord?
    Hamlet: Nothing.
    Read, and be enlightened.

    On the same page,
    Quote Originally Posted by God
    Genesis 24:9, Abraham's servant swears by holding Abraham's package: "And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter." Swearing a promise on your father's genitals
    Steam(shots), Imgur, Flickr, Bak'laag, why do you forsake me?
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    Bin the .exes to get it high.

  13. #13
    Moderator alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alice O'Connor View Post
    The Unofficial RPS Style Guide (which doesn't exist, and is followed infrequently at best) says: unless an actual Roguelike, use 'roguelikelike'.

    That's the opposite of "a lazy way of getting a few more words in the article to pad it out", though. Usually that one word is to avoid saying "procedurally-generated layouts, discovery and experimentation, high difficulty, and probably permadeath, yet persistent progression of a sort through expanding your knowledge".
    Not sure how, but I totally missed your post, Alice. Thanks for chiming in.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana View Post
    A number of very poor experiences with Binding of Isaac made me dislike Roguelikes. Even FTL, while I could see the engagement of it, left me with just a sour taste in my mouth by making its most dramatic moments the times when you game over; it's like the writer who ONLY builds up characters to make their deaths more tragic.

    The worst part is the randomization.
    "Okay, so I want to get better at this game. What should I do here?"
    "Well, if you can get a Helm of Enlightenment in the first five floors, that should help."
    "I didn't."
    "Oh, well, then okay, it's not your lack of skill, you've just had bad luck."
    A big part of Roguelikes is learning to adapt to that kind of unpredictability, and the systems usually (as a sign of quality, not all games are good games) have some redundancy or overlap that you can use to make up for things.
    Does the Helm of Enlightenment help you identify unknown items? Well, you can also dip those items in water or potions, throw them at monsters, hit monsters with them, try to just blindly drink them, etc., using the results of these tests and their reactions to infer what they are.
    Does it provide light? You can get something wooden and set it on fire. You could get a spell or potion that causes a glow. You could get a spell or potion of Detect Monster.
    Or, on the flipside, there are ways to try and find the helm itself. Techniques or abilities to find secret areas, to point out items on your map, to transmute one magic hat into another, etc.

    And on top of that, and this counts especially for the Binding of Isaac, a willingness to monitor your own fun and restart when things feel bullshit is important. :)

  15. #15
    Moderator alms's Avatar
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    Fasten your seatbelts, please, as announced I'll be teleporting this to PC Gaming, let's see what happens.
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  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    *shrieks at roguelike*

  17. #17
    Moderator alms's Avatar
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    _____________________#.#
    _________________#####.###
    _________________#.......######
    ##################........
    .m<<<<<<<<<<<<<@.'.......######
    ####################.##.##
    ___________________# ## #

    You cast Spear of Light.
    alms the mod mold cringes from the light.
    You cast Spear of Light.
    alms the mod mold shrivels away in the light!
    Last edited by alms; 13-03-2016 at 02:58 AM.
    The Onward March of Bundles - filling your backlog since 1911. For a list of active deals, and more, click here.
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  18. #18
    Network Hub Viral Frog's Avatar
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    Roguelike is the new MMORPG. Roguelike is now all encompassing for roguelike, roguelikelike, roguelite, difficult games, games with rogues in them, games that aren't in anyway roguelike, etc. Doesn't mean a thing these days.

    I recently bought UnEpic in a build your own roguelike bundle, and god was I pissed when I played it. Not even a fucking roguelite. So far removed from rogue, that putting rogue anywhere near the description was an idiotic idea. That said, it IS a wonderful Metroidvania-style game.

    It's frustrating to me, someone that loves roguelikes, that I have to research every title I see with the roguelike tag, and end up disappointed more often than not.
    Steam: Viral Frog

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    _____________________#.#
    _________________#####.###
    _________________#.......######
    ##################........
    .m<<<<<<<<<<<<<@.'.......######
    ####################.##.##
    ___________________# ## #

    You cast Light Spear.
    alms the mod mold cringes from the light.
    You cast Light Spear.
    alms the mod mold shrivels away.
    wat. poor alms.
    You fly and shoot lasers from your nose to intercept the spears.
    alms the mod doesn't care.
    I don't know how to play.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xzi's Avatar
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    It's just the name of a genre or archetype at this point, it doesn't literally mean "like Rogue."
    ~

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