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Thread: Rift vs. Vive

  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xzi's Avatar
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    Rift vs. Vive

    (In reference to the consumer models)

    No, I'm not rich, I'm just an adult with a job and I'm free to spend my tax return on whatever I want. With that out of the way, I'm seriously torn here. I was hoping the Vive might be $900+ to make the decision easy, but $800 really isn't bad for advantages of the Vive. Specifically, motion controls from the get-go, front-facing camera, phone integration, and full room-scale tracking. OTOH I feel like the games bundled with the Rift are better, the Oculus storefront actually seems pretty cool with full VR demos of software, and even though I love my headset, positional audio headphones built into the Rift cuts down on potentially problematic cords. It's probably not going to cost much less than the Vive once the Oculus Touch controllers are taken into account.

    I guess I'll have to wait until the 29th to get a clearer picture. Specifically I'd like to know if the Vive is still a whole lot heavier than the Rift. People have also mentioned that the Rift has better ventilation and so the lenses tend to cloud on the Vive.
    Last edited by Xzi; 22-02-2016 at 06:08 AM.
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  2. #2
    Network Hub Ffrog's Avatar
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    If I had the space for either, i'd be leaning towards the vive at the moment. Features like the chaperone system and outward facing camera suggest that they're thinking about the practicalities of VR in the home

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    How big is your gaming area? Space seems to be a much bigger factor for Vive than it does for Rift.
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    The thing that puts me off about the Vive is that the Rift is at least in reality (if not technically) a third generation piece of consumer hardware. The first two may not have been in stores and called Dev Kits, but were sold to anyone who wanted them. I worry the Vive will just have 1st gen hardware issues that Oculus will have neatly avoided.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Chaz's Avatar
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    My money's still on the Rift right now, mostly because I just don't have the space for all the full motion stuff even if I did want to do all that standing up and waving around of hands stuff (which to be honest I don't).

    I don't see a huge issue with the Rift not having the motion controls at launch because I very much doubt there'll be any games that are properly developed with them in mind for a while anyway. Although I'm sure support for them will be crudely retro fitted to some titles.

    As for the whole room space thing, it'll be interesting to see what happens there. I don't think it'll be too hard for Oculus to implement that for the Rift should they want/need to down the line as it already has movement tracking in a limited area anyway. Long term though I'm not so sure it'll take off enough to the point where we're seeing AAA titles developed specifically with that sort of experience in mind. There are just too many requirements to make it go mainstream enough, such as having enough room space for it to work effectively and then needing your PC to be in that space. Also gaming history is littered with fancy motion control schemes that were either flash in the pans or dead and buried before they'd even got started.

    To be honest I think Oculus is doing the smart thing by delaying the release of the motion controllers. Get the actual VR headset out there first and being used and supported. That is after all the main component of VR, despite what some of the gaming press might have you believe. The headset is the VR experience, the motion controls and room space thing are just extras that add to the immersion whilst wearing a VR headset. During the these past couple of years with the DK1 & 2 being out and used, I can't remember anyone saying they felt they were only getting half the experience due to the lack of motion control.

    I think it'll be a couple of years before we see how this all pans out. First of all for VR to succeed we need both the Rift and Vive to be reasonably successful with the early adopters, in order to get positive word of mouth out. There definitely needs to be more manufacturers making headsets though for it to really succeed, in order to bring down the cost of entry. Personally I think a lot of how successful VR will be, will come down to how well PlayStation VR is taken up. That'll be the headset that is bought by the masses, and which the major games houses will be developing their AAA titles for, not these niche PC peripherals.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    How big is your gaming area? Space seems to be a much bigger factor for Vive than it does for Rift.
    With a little adjustment I can get it to around 7ft x 7ft. Doesn't seem to be an issue as long as you can turn around without hitting stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    The thing that puts me off about the Vive is that the Rift is at least in reality (if not technically) a third generation piece of consumer hardware. The first two may not have been in stores and called Dev Kits, but were sold to anyone who wanted them. I worry the Vive will just have 1st gen hardware issues that Oculus will have neatly avoided.
    I partially agree here. HTC is experienced in hardware manufacturing, and the Vive also had a couple developer models before the consumer version. OTOH I've had an HTC phone and it wasn't great. Friends also haven't had good experiences with HTC hardware. Oculus is a relative unknown when it comes to the quality of their hardware. They clearly don't have the manufacturing resources of HTC and so their pre-orders are shipping pretty late into the year. Seems as though it will be possible to get a Vive in April, whereas my day one pre-order of the Rift doesn't ship until May.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    I don't see a huge issue with the Rift not having the motion controls at launch because I very much doubt there'll be any games that are properly developed with them in mind for a while anyway. Although I'm sure support for them will be crudely retro fitted to some titles.
    Well the Vive is launching with two games that support motion controls, although I'll grant that they aren't the most exciting. However, Hover Junkers looks absolutely AMAZING, and the only way to get the proper experience there is with motion controls.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai4MCmZz28o

    On the other other hand, I like the design of the Oculus Touch controllers more than the Vive's, but I'm impatient and it's actually possible that Oculus is having trouble getting their Touch controllers working properly. Who knows if or when that might be resolved. Vive's base stations seem to have been the better solution here.

    EDIT: Also, Superhot looks like it would be better with motion controls.
    Last edited by Xzi; 22-02-2016 at 08:32 PM.
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  7. #7
    Lesser Hivemind Node Aerothorn's Avatar
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    I think it really does come down to the space thing. Having spoken with a VR developer about this, Vive will dominate that space (no pun intended), Oculus is barely even competing for it at this point. My *guess* is that Oculus will focus more on traditional gameplay experiences and film/video while Vive will focus more on unorthodox stuff.

    Also, there's the obvious platform difference (between tied to Steam vs. Oculus Store).

    I'm sitting this round out, and not just because I can't begin to afford the hardware, but best luck on being an early adopter!

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerothorn View Post
    I think it really does come down to the space thing. Having spoken with a VR developer about this, Vive will dominate that space (no pun intended), Oculus is barely even competing for it at this point. My *guess* is that Oculus will focus more on traditional gameplay experiences and film/video while Vive will focus more on unorthodox stuff.

    Also, there's the obvious platform difference (between tied to Steam vs. Oculus Store).
    Well in that regard the Vive has the clear advantage, because it can do seated experiences just as well as the Rift can, so you have more versatility. The Rift can use the Oculus storefront AND Steam, the Vive can probably only use Steam and other apps outside of the Oculus storefront for the foreseeable future. I don't know whether to take points away or give points for the Oculus storefront, because on the one hand I can understand adding that extra appeal to your HMD specifically, but on the other hand it's a dick move to do VR exclusives early on.
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  9. #9
    Moderator alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerothorn View Post
    I'm sitting this round out, and not just because I can't begin to afford the hardware, but best luck on being an early adopter!
    Having not been following too closely, I had the impression VR headsets have been thus far mostly used by dedicated simmers, developers and experimenters.

    With both the main competitors launching, the scenario will have to change and for that to happen software has to play its part, the dreaded killer app conundrum all over again? How are things looking at this moment in that department?
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  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Having not been following too closely, I had the impression VR headsets have been thus far mostly used by dedicated simmers, developers and experimenters.

    With both the main competitors launching, the scenario will have to change and for that to happen software has to play its part, the dreaded killer app conundrum all over again? How are things looking at this moment in that department?
    That's gonna depend mostly on preferences. There are hacks for a lot of existing AAA games to add VR support. The mod community is doing some serious work in regards to that as well as older games/ROMs. Dolphin has released a VR emulator, so Gamecube and Wii games are all open-season now.

    Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiTPZ47pDcU

    In terms of games developed specifically for VR, the list is growing all the time. Personally stuff like Eve: Valkyrie, Superhot, and Hover Junkers is all very appealing to me.

    Steam has about ten pages of games with VR support already, although reportedly it's broken/not well implemented in some: http://store.steampowered.com/search/?category2=31

    Coupled with all the virtual movie theaters that support both 2D and 3D movies, as well as VR arcades with ROM/MP3 support, content is actually pretty limitless right now.

    I've probably watched this video for New Retro Arcade ten times now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaAaxhO-ci4
    Last edited by Xzi; 23-02-2016 at 12:14 AM.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Xzi View Post
    That's gonna depend mostly on preferences. There are hacks for a lot of existing AAA games to add VR support. The mod community is doing some serious work in regards to that as well as older games/ROMs. Dolphin has released a VR emulator, so Gamecube and Wii games are all open-season now.
    It's an uphill struggle to get a non-VR-built PC game running at the 90fps acceptable for VR, much less a Gamecube game (especially since console games are often coded very much with a certain framerate in mind). Besides which, they're not even designed for that type of experience. Most Oculus devkit videos have been streamers who played for 15 minutes to half an hour, then put it down and played something else normally; because it just wasn't so fun to actually enjoy the game itself in that way.

    I'm still waiting for the killer app. I don't intend to buy a VR kit just to play "anything VR", and I don't like space sims - I want to have a specific game in mind, and I want to be able to envision myself replaying it.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana View Post
    It's an uphill struggle to get a non-VR-built PC game running at the 90fps acceptable for VR, much less a Gamecube game (especially since console games are often coded very much with a certain framerate in mind). Besides which, they're not even designed for that type of experience.
    They aren't, no, but simply changing how the camera works does wonders. Lucky's Tale is proof that something other than first-person games can work well in VR. Emulating a Gamecube/Wii game at 90 FPS is a simple proposition for the recommended VR hardware. With PC games you might just need to turn down the graphics settings some. People have managed to get even GTA V working in VR just fine.
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  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xzi's Avatar
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    I tried making a list of the pros for each HMD over the other, then started banging my head against a wall when the lists turned out to be the same length:

    Rift

    +Attached headphones
    +Touch design
    +Oculus storefront
    +Bundled games

    Vive

    +Front-facing camera
    +Phone integration
    +Room-scale experiences
    +Motion controls at launch

    While you bathe in my tears, here's some footage of Hover Junkers which I seriously suggest you watch if you haven't seen it before. Probably the killer app for VR to beat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYDSqRzOVKE
    Last edited by Xzi; 23-02-2016 at 08:00 AM.
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  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Chaz's Avatar
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    I'd say, if you've got the room space for using one and the money is not an issue for you, then go for the Vive.

    Sure, you won't have access to the Oculus store, but I'll bet most of what appears on their store will make it over to Steam as well at some point or be released independently. I'll eat my hat if Eve Valkyrie doesn't get a general release a few months after the Oculus launch.

    At the moment I view this as early adopter territory and although these are consumer units, I still look at them as a development in progress. Me personally, I just want a VR headset to play Elite Dangerous and some other sims on etc and just experience VR in general. For me the Oculus is the cheaper more acceptable option in that regard. If it all takes off, then no doubt in another year or two is when we'll get the proper general mass consumer units. By then I expect the tech to have improved even more and become cheaper. At that point I'll be more into weighing up the pros and cons of the different units. Hopefully by then there'll also be more of a standard as to what features are expected with the hardware. Who knows, by then AR might have stolen a march on VR anyway.

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    One thing is for certain: this time VR will come to a larger market and in time it'll be cheaper. I probably wait a while and see what happens before I throw around €700,- +. Back in the day they also said they would conquer the world with VR. I can't even remember now who 'they' were. All that I know is that the game Magic Carpet had support for it.

    Back in the day you also hadn't all this internet and worldwide connection with everyone....

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    I rather suggest you to wait. Golden rule of IT consumer products is there is always bugs here and there for the first generation of a completely new product.

    At least wait till there are enough WIT commentaries for you to make reference of.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus zanchito's Avatar
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    I'm extremely nonplussed about exclusives. It's right the kind of garbage an emerging market does not need at all. Or any market, really, it's very anti consumer.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Who knows, by then AR might have stolen a march on VR anyway.
    Seems pretty likely to me. I expect we might have a decade of VR fighting it out as a niche-y kind of thing, then AR will have got to the point where it functionally performs the same job as VR, but also does other stuff (and there will essentially be little divide between the two).

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    I'm in the lucky position where the place where I work is going to give me the budget to buy both of them, not that I'm smug or anything :D

    In my opinion, the hardware differences between the first-gen Oculus Rift CV1 and Vive Pre are going to be small compared the second generation of hardware that is almost certainly being worked on. It doesn't really matter which one you buy, they're both at early-adopter levels of quality, and later more mature hardware is going to be better.

    There are a few technologies that are still in the pipeline that were not ready for this generation of hardware. 4k or better resolutions, HDR colour gamuts like rec.2020, Foviated Imaging, and more extreme technology such as Light Field Displays that could make the current tech obsolete.

    Just like all new consumer tech, the next gen is going to be cheaper and better. The question is whether you're prepared to pay the premium to be an early adopter.

  20. #20
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    Foveated rendering is really interesting - it seriously has the potential to massively up the quality of VR whilst potentially even reducing the processing costs. I'm kind of surprised we're not seeing hardware developers hold off until it's consumer-ready, but I guess there's a feeling that they need to get in there and plant their flag.

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