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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Bethesda's Fallout and Surrounding Culture

    Mod Note: Heyo! This thread was originally split from the Fallout 4 Official thread to seperate the discussion of the game itself from the discussion of the games' surrounding culture (think public reception, reviews, Bethesda's philosophies and Obisidian's philosophies, all that good stuff). If you want to talk about Fo4's gameplay, please go here!


    Quote Originally Posted by Gus_Smedstad View Post
    Thank you. I appreciate that. I've felt for some time now that this thread seems to have attracted a lot of people who don't like the Fallout series, but feel moved to comment on an upcoming game they won't buy anyway.

    And, y'know, there's nothing wrong with not liking Fallout, any more than there's anything wrong with my disinterest in, oh, Dark Souls. It's just rough reading so much negativity when what you really want to do is spazz out with all the other people who have really enjoyed the series and think the trailers have been exciting.

    So, mostly I've been compensating by reading /r/fo4, which has all of the enthusiasm I could ask for and then some. The main drawback being it's a bit less than coherent.
    I don't think a single person on here has said they don't like the Fallout series. Unless by Fallout series you mean 3 and New Vegas, which don't constitute the series. Some people have said like they 3 but not New Vegas and vice versa. There is the undeniable fact that at this point the Fallout series consists of essentially 3 different games; The approach of the second two, the departure from that in the third and fourth, and the sort of compromise between both in the form of New Vegas. I'ts not a neat progression by any stretch, but so long as the franchise bears the name of Fallout then it invites criticism and consideration around what that should even mean.

    It strikes me as perfectly acceptable to discuss Fallout 4 in the context of these other two approaches, as well as that of other open world games, be it positively, negativley or otherwise.

    I intend to get the game soon but not until there's reports of better stability. At this point I feel like I'm going to jettison the plot and building stuff for the most part and just walk around and do things, with a heavy leaning on charisma and agility. Although the new system seems to require less of a min/max approach and allow for more general tooling around.
    Last edited by Grizzly; 07-12-2015 at 08:54 AM.
    Do we put that on a game that says that there are people falling out of windows and when they hit the ground we kill them and we say that is a Fallout and they are falling out of cars

  2. #2
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    Not sure if this has been posted..

    Game speed linked to frame rate.

    Obviously fixed by using vsync.. but what if your monitor is >60h? Surely this is considered an amateur mistake by todays standards.

  3. #3
    Lesser Hivemind Node eRa's Avatar
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    That's because the game is made by amateurs using a hilariously old engine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msing View Post
    Not sure if this has been posted..

    Game speed linked to frame rate.

    Obviously fixed by using vsync.. but what if your monitor is >60h? Surely this is considered an amateur mistake by todays standards.
    Is this for real? >.<

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    Delta time? Real post-apo survivors doesn't use this shit.

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    Moderator Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msing View Post
    Not sure if this has been posted..

    Game speed linked to frame rate.

    Obviously fixed by using vsync.. but what if your monitor is >60h? Surely this is considered an amateur mistake by todays standards.
    The previous versions of this engine had this too, so I'm quite sure that this is not a mistake but rather one of those things that sound very easy on paper but are surprisingly hard to actually code properly. You'd be surprised how many race sims have their FFB code running on a frame-dependent system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    The previous versions of this engine had this too, so I'm quite sure that this is not a mistake but rather one of those things that sound very easy on paper but are surprisingly hard to actually code properly. You'd be surprised how many race sims have their FFB code running on a frame-dependent system.
    I'm not so sure.. GameCat reminded me of Delta Time, which I had to use when making (a very simple) game. Pretty sure its primary function is ensuring this doesn't happen.

    It might be complicated to implement now, being that the engine is so old, but that's just another reason to ditch the engine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eRa View Post
    That's because the game is made by amateurs using a hilariously old engine.
    I am a complete sucker for Bethesda open worlders, but since I can't even start the friggin game, I tend to agree with this sentiment....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by msing View Post
    I'm not so sure.. GameCat reminded me of Delta Time, which I had to use when making (a very simple) game. Pretty sure its primary function is ensuring this doesn't happen.

    It might be complicated to implement now, being that the engine is so old, but that's just another reason to ditch the engine.
    I don't think delta time is hard to code, but if you want to apply it to whole engine that was build upon more or less fixed framerate and over decade, well... It probably would be easier to just write a new engine.

    And yes, game logic independent from framerate should be standard by now. I mean, the very first thing you should learn in engine like Unity 3D is multiplying vectors by Time.deltaTime.



    PS. I love how no one writes in Fallout 4 Story Spoilers thread, lol.

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    So I am about 5 hours in so far. It's okay. Really hasn't hooked me, hell I think the only reason I am playing it still is that the setting is different from most games.

    However as a game it's pretty much a disgrace that we have all lapped it up and given it crazy review scores. The game is a mess, AI which bugs out easily, textures which fail to load, random performance dips, a completely anti-UX UI. It's complete shit. But we will all try to ignore that since it's 'open world' and has a famous name (and studio!).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    So I am about 5 hours in so far. It's okay. Really hasn't hooked me, hell I think the only reason I am playing it still is that the setting is different from most games.

    However as a game it's pretty much a disgrace that we have all lapped it up and given it crazy review scores. The game is a mess, AI which bugs out easily, textures which fail to load, random performance dips, a completely anti-UX UI. It's complete shit. But we will all try to ignore that since it's 'open world' and has a famous name (and studio!).
    It still puzzles me the way in which video game reviewers can, on the one hand, beg us to trust them and insist they are impartial, and on the other, give games like this a positive review.

    I dont care if the game offers lots to do. Or a huge open world. I dont care that it holds lots of promise or tries to do the best it can in clear spite of the tools with which it was developed.

    IT DOESNT WORK.

    Or at least, it does not work well. On a majority of hardware configurations. Or at all, on some. And even when it does function, it does so grudgingly at best, if many player reviews are to be believed. So tell me how a non-functionl or partially functional product rates an 8/10 in reviews from impartial games "journalists" again. Because I'm not seeing it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xzi View Post
    That's pretty bad. I haven't run in to anything game-breaking yet, just some super funky physics and my guns turning invisible.
    I think I've sorted it. Turns out MSI Afterburner was causing the game to crash when I tried to load. Turned it off and played for about 15 mins earlier without an issue. Hopefully that will be the end of the crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    So I am about 5 hours in so far. It's okay. Really hasn't hooked me, hell I think the only reason I am playing it still is that the setting is different from most games.

    However as a game it's pretty much a disgrace that we have all lapped it up and given it crazy review scores. The game is a mess, AI which bugs out easily, textures which fail to load, random performance dips, a completely anti-UX UI. It's complete shit. But we will all try to ignore that since it's 'open world' and has a famous name (and studio!).
    I wouldn't really say that...

    Fallout 3 Metacritic score: 91 User Score: 8.1
    Fallout 4Metacritic Score: 87 User Score: 4.7

    Bethesda and steam forums on the game are both full of negativity towards the game. I haven't really played much yet, given the issues I've had, but I'm very underwhelmed by what I've seen so far and people certainly haven't just lapped it up.
    Last edited by SephKing; 11-11-2015 at 11:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SephKing View Post
    I think I've sorted it. Turns out MSI Afterburner was causing the game to crash when I tried to load. Turned it off and played for about 15 mins earlier without an issue. Hopefully that will be the end of the crashes.



    I wouldn't really say that...

    Fallout 3 Metacritic score: 91 User Score: 8.1
    Fallout 4Metacritic Score: 87 User Score: 4.7

    Bethesda and steam forums on the game are both full of negativity towards the game. I haven't really played much yet, given the issues I've had, but I'm very underwhelmed by what I've seen so far and people certainly haven't just lapped it up.
    Good to know some of the more honest and deserved opinions are out there now.

    God this saddens me. I dont WANT to hate Bethesda. I really want to LOVE Fallout. I long for a good, post apocalyptic RPG/Playground. And I would love the Fallout games to be that.

    But here's Bethesda, with a license other devs and publishers would love a crack at, crapping all over it and just...not caring...about quality or the players at all.

  14. #14
    Lesser Hivemind Node Aerothorn's Avatar
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    In general, I think having strong opinions about media you haven't actually engaged with (games you haven't played, movies you haven't seen) is silly, which is why I have not posted in the Fallout 4 thread, despite the fact that I would likely have strong opinions were I to actually play it :)

  15. #15
    Lesser Hivemind Node eRa's Avatar
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    Did we really get a seperate thread for criticism because fanboys can't take it? Jesus fucking Christ.

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    Sorry about that. Honest. I hope I didnt lessen the enjoyment others are deriving from the game.

    In future I simply need to avoid discussion of Bethesda the developer, or even the temptation thereto. Their practices bring out the worst in me and my (admittedly faltering) relationship with gaming. Nonetheless, my disapproval is my own and I dont expect anyone else to share just because I feel the way I do.

    That said, I DO feel very strongly about Bethesda, their practices and the definition they adhere to for words such as "finished" which admittedly differs from my own to some considerable degree.

    There. I have said my piece on the matter and have, really, no more to say. Except that I genuinely hope they make amends and actually finish their game. I hope it becomes a stable masterpiece of open world perfection. And this isnt sarcasm, because I want to pay them money one day for THAT game. I'm just no longer prepared to do it on faith, while waiting for THAT game to exist.
    Last edited by Blackcompany; 12-11-2015 at 01:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eRa View Post
    Did we really get a sepArate thread for criticism because fanboys can't take it? Jesus fucking Christ.
    :D That we did buddy boy, that we did. It's the "I'm going to take my ball and go home" attitude if you don't play the game the way they want to play it.

  18. #18
    Moderator Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eRa View Post
    Did we really get a seperate thread for criticism because fanboys can't take it? Jesus fucking Christ.
    No you didn't. This post quite clearly states why part of the discussion has been split off.
    Forum janitor in training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcompany View Post
    It still puzzles me the way in which video game reviewers can, on the one hand, beg us to trust them and insist they are impartial, and on the other, give games like this a positive review.

    I dont care if the game offers lots to do. Or a huge open world. I dont care that it holds lots of promise or tries to do the best it can in clear spite of the tools with which it was developed.

    IT DOESNT WORK.

    Or at least, it does not work well. On a majority of hardware configurations. Or at all, on some. And even when it does function, it does so grudgingly at best, if many player reviews are to be believed. So tell me how a non-functionl or partially functional product rates an 8/10 in reviews from impartial games "journalists" again. Because I'm not seeing it.
    Perhaps the game worked perfectly fine for the reviewers, as it does for me (barring the occasional mild glitch or bug). They are reviewing their experience of the game, not doing QA testing on a variety of systems.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SephKing View Post
    Fallout 3 Metacritic score: 91 User Score: 8.1
    Fallout 4Metacritic Score: 87 User Score: 4.7
    It tickles me how many of the sites i don't trust, and those who anonymise reviews are at the top end of those review scores.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

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