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Thread: Panama Papers

  1. #1
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    Panama Papers

    Wow, so this is something. Arguably the biggest leak since Cablegate and perhaps even bigger than that. The repercussions could be immense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Süddeutsche
    Over a year ago, an anonymous source contacted the Süddeutsche Zeitung (SZ) and submitted encrypted internal documents from Mossack Fonseca, a Panamanian law firm that sells anonymous offshore companies around the world. These shell firms enable their owners to cover up their business dealings, no matter how shady.

    In the months that followed, the number of documents continued to grow far beyond the original leak. Ultimately, SZ acquired about 2.6 terabytes of data, making the leak the biggest that journalists had ever worked with. The source wanted neither financial compensation nor anything else in return, apart from a few security measures.

    The data provides rare insights into a world that can only exist in the shadows. It proves how a global industry led by major banks, legal firms, and asset management companies secretly manages the estates of the world’s rich and famous: from politicians, Fifa officials, fraudsters and drug smugglers, to celebrities and professional athletes.
    http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/...b8d3c3495adf4/

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016...-panama-papers

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-35918844
    Last edited by Anthile; 04-04-2016 at 01:17 AM.
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  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    From my own country's experience, those dark secrets are often too well-guarded that when they are leaked, you are almost sure that this is not an act of just. Uncover of criminal act of one fiction always benefits one's opponents.

    BTW why as large as 2.6TB? all scanned PDFs? Oh, they should learn to use DJUV, haha~

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    BTW why as large as 2.6TB? all scanned PDFs? Oh, they should learn to use DJUV, haha~
    It is the biggest leak ever. tens of thousands of pdfs can easily add up to a couple TBs. I would say 95% of stuff is really boring and unimportant.

    but that 5% is already very juicy.

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    Watch as absolutely every single person involved evades any meaningful punishment whatsoever.
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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Watch as absolutely every single person involved evades any meaningful punishment whatsoever.
    Maybe I'm too cynical but I somehow doubt this is going to be a big important thing. It'll turn out lots of sleazy rich people were all not paying tax like we basically already thought, but not technically doing anything illegal.

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    Yup. And they'll be backed up by a horde of idiots who say it's basically their ethical responsibility to pay as little tax as possible and we'd all be doing it if we could, because really what the rich need are a bunch of unpaid poor people who'll always fight their corner.
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  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Eight Rooks's Avatar
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    Well, Mossack Fonseca are already pretty much lying about it outright and no-one's calling them on it.

    In a statement Mossack Fonseca said: "Your allegations that we provide structures supposedly designed to hide the identity of the real owners, are completely unsupported and false. We do not provide beneficiary services to deceive banks. It is difficult, not to say impossible, not to provide banks with the identity of final beneficiaries and the origin of funds."
    The documents lay out in explicit detail how these "allegations" are pretty much dead on, and yet no-one at the BBC can say "oh for God's sake shut up" because journalistic integrity, or something. And the less said about Putin's stooges and their pathetic "It's all an American plot to discredit Mother Russia!" the better.
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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    Might want to check if there's your bank in the lists, ofc it may just be names having legal business among many less than legal ones but it's awkward nonetheless.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EPICTHEFAIL's Avatar
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    Wait, people are actually shocked by this? Have I actually been living in a different universe to everyone else this whole time? Because in mine, it'd be shocking and scandalous to find a member of the upper classes who doesn't abuse tax havens as much as possible. Even ones who are considered reputable and decent human beings. Especially those.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BillButNotBen's Avatar
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    It's interesting the wide range of people who are their clients. UK PM's dad. Norweigan(?) PM. Putin's mates. Top footballers. Japanese Security company presidents. Pakistan PM's kids. Chinese President's family members. Etc...

    I wonder how you end up being their client? I just imagine that after you get to a certain level of wealth or power someone in a trenchcoat sidles up to you one dark night and passes you the card of a Panamanian law firm.

    Considering the amount of effort I went to and time/energy I expended to fill in my taxes accurately when my income is tiny, I wonder why I bothered.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPICTHEFAIL View Post
    Wait, people are actually shocked by this?
    That it's happening? I would hope not. What people are interested in is that now there's real proof of it happening.

    Anyhow, I can't wait to see what else comes from this and how people will try and defend their actions.
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  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    If this will do any real harm, the whistler blower would have been died of most unnatural natural cause already.

    BTW, time to promote DJVU. Stupid PDF is not good for scanned images.

  13. #13
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    Putin and FIFA officials have shady bank accounts?!?!?!?!

    I'm hoping for some better names. Like Mother Teresa had a secret lockbox full of billions in orphanage money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    That it's happening? I would hope not. What people are interested in is that now there's real proof of it happening.

    Anyhow, I can't wait to see what else comes from this and how people will try and defend their actions.
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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    'It's legal. I should know, I wrote the law. Now return to your station, pleb, or I'll evict you from your hovel for inconveniencing me.'
    In Cameron's case it seems to be. "Well I can't be blamed for things my father did that is entirely unreasonable.... pardon? No. Don't be silly of course all my advantage in life being entirely related to that money has no impact on me or my decision making in the slightest. We're all just individuals. If it came down to it, say our plane crashed, I would eat SamCam it would be the only reasonable course of action if you consider it in terms of market forces."

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillButNotBen View Post
    I wonder how you end up being their client? I just imagine that after you get to a certain level of wealth or power someone in a trenchcoat sidles up to you one dark night and passes you the card of a Panamanian law firm.
    No, you just hire some of the best fiscal advisors you can find, who will work out the legal loopholes you can use. If that is Panama, then off to Panama your money goes. Of course those advisors cost a lot of money, but they will probably save you even more. Without going into the ethical side of things, there isn't necessarily anything illegal about storing money offshore. Demanding punishment is all well and good, but there has to be a crime first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPICTHEFAIL View Post
    Because in mine, it'd be shocking and scandalous to find a member of the upper classes who doesn't abuse tax havens as much as possible. Even ones who are considered reputable and decent human beings. Especially those.
    That's not really true in the UK or even the US. The US is extremely aggressive in making people pay tax, and in the UK I'm not sure what the excuse is, but most wealthy people are not engaged in what could be termed "aggressive tax avoidance". A large minority, perhaps. Once you get into the higher multi-millionaires it becomes a lot more common of course.

    Corporations/business are more complicated and common, but even there's it's not quite as omni-present as people think it is outside of massive multi-nationals, many of which are basically designed around avoiding tax.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Depends what you mean by wealthy. I imagine the percentage of people doing dodgy shit with their personal wealth increases with the sources of the income; inherited wealth, banking, old boys and "entrepreneurs" being the worst. I doubt even well paid doctors get up to it very often. Yknow the UK and class warfare >.>

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexW View Post
    That's not really true in the UK or even the US. The US is extremely aggressive in making people pay tax, and in the UK I'm not sure what the excuse is, but most wealthy people are not engaged in what could be termed "aggressive tax avoidance". A large minority, perhaps. Once you get into the higher multi-millionaires it becomes a lot more common of course.
    It depends what you include, surely? My understanding is that local sales tax in the US is a total mess - ie. only people who live in the state in which Amazon is based pay sales tax directly, but the theory is those buying from outside the state should declare their purchases and pay the sales tax separately. Which doesn't happen and is sort of just accepted. Not sure how accurate that is so happy to be corrected!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    It depends what you include, surely? My understanding is that local sales tax in the US is a total mess - ie. only people who live in the state in which Amazon is based pay sales tax directly, but the theory is those buying from outside the state should declare their purchases and pay the sales tax separately. Which doesn't happen and is sort of just accepted. Not sure how accurate that is so happy to be corrected!
    Are you seriously comparing avoiding state-based sales tax with aggressive federal income tax avoidance? Or is this a joke I'm not getting...?

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