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08-01-2017, 09:23 AM #1
Conspiracy theorists and theories...
Flat earth, 9/11, moon landings, HAARP...have you ever encountered conspiracy theorists and discussed (or tried to) with them ? Do you think it's hopeless ? More braodly speaking, what's your reaction to conspiracy theories and their seemingly endless supply of believers on the Internet ?
08-01-2017, 09:34 AM #2
Hi everyone I used to be a conspiracy theorist and used to believe that 9/11 was an inside job and that we faked the moon landings.
It was in my teenage years when I first started getting into watching those kind of videos and made me convinced that the evidence they were giving me was right. I discussed it with some other people that made me feel I was not alone and that the government was evil. To me now it just feels like I was seeing the corruption and stuff but in a more crazy way.
I really don't know how I stopped, going to university gaining good friends and partying and just caring about that helped. I remember once having an argument with someone about it and then realizin to myself I really don't care about this anymore. Eventually I came to realize that the world is to chaotic to really have someone mastermindeding everything. Also that a lot of those theories are pretty anti-semetic which I felt horrible that I once believed them.
So I guess my answer is yes, try to speak to them always because as I show it can change them in small ways.
In fact here is a podcast talking about that in terms of racism:
08-01-2017, 09:52 AM #3
The problem is that every time I tried to speak with conspirationnists I just gave up in the end. Like with the flat-earthers ; you can try every demonstration you want, it will always end up either with "yeah, but my intuition says elsewhere" or "you math is wrong because I say so". Even if you bring them in the ISS to show them the Earth, they'll still say "yeah, but it was an hologram and I was on drugs".
Which is a shame, because I think what motivates most conspiracy theorists - that you shouldn't trust everything you're told and rather try to understand things yourself, to make your own opinion - is a sane thing, but then they start following something else blindly...
08-01-2017, 10:09 AM #4
What exactly is the conspiracy about the flat earth story? I get that some people believe this, but many people believe silly things that aren't (alleged) conspiracies.
In a more general sense, a blanket dismissal of conspiracy theories seems unwarranted, especially when they involve people and organisations who have in the past clearly conspired. But there is a difference between 'Clinton is a reptilian that's why she doesn't sweat' and 'the CIA can't really be trusted after its history of deception and lies'. For example, it may have once been a conspiracy theory to suggest that Microsoft helped the NSA circumvent its encryption, but leaks have since shown this to be true. Why should we assume their claims are true now?
What's my reaction? Shrugging it off, I suppose. It also depends on how easy it is to spot the nonsensical. If it's less obvious I might do a quick search to see what various people say about a story or event, and based on the sources it's often possible to get a pretty good idea what's going on. Also, being content not to know removes the need to pick a side.
08-01-2017, 10:18 AM #5What exactly is the conspiracy about the flat earth story? I get that some people believe this, but many people believe silly things that aren't (alleged) conspiracies.
But there is a difference between 'Clinton is a reptilian that's why she doesn't sweat' and 'the CIA can't really be trusted after its history of deception and lies'.
08-01-2017, 10:32 AM #6
- Join Date
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There is a problem with the term and associations around it. In general calling someone's opinion a conspiracy theory is about rubbishing that persons point of view, and while that is sometimes a good thing, we need to keep in mind the role that government agencies play in 'feeding' the conspiracy theory stories we come across. And no that is not a conspiracy theory, but a general good example of black-ops type propaganda.
There is a fantastic example of this, and it was covered in the brilliant 'The Power of Nightmares' documentaries. Around the time that the Neo-Conservative personel were taking hold of key strategic positions within the American governments administration during the Regan years, and towards the Bush era, there was a change of the head of the NSA (or CIA i forget which post exactly), and they came from the right-republican cut and wanted sweeping changes, in particular in relation to a book they had read about Russia's increasing power. That book had been created by the NSA (CIA) as part of a black-op propaganda drive and someone had to point that out to the new incoming head. The full details of that are in the documentary series i mentioned.
Anyway the point is to make clear that one man's conspiracy theory is sometimes just another man's black-ops exercise, the whole right-wing/republican/Conservative anti Global Warming thing is a perfect example imho. Many on the 'right' see Global Warming as a conspiracy theory, even when the clear scientific evidence says otherwise. That is how powerful propaganda is, and how conspiracy theory itself is a murky term we need to use with caution.
08-01-2017, 10:36 AM #7
My favorite is MK Ultra, which is often directly blamed for the Unibomber. A domestic terrorist driven to violence by state funded mind control torture.
Reads like early Clancy, so unrealistic.
Last edited by Heliocentric; 08-01-2017 at 10:49 AM.
08-01-2017, 01:18 PM #8
Just going to leave this here (I think it has been posted before on a similar topic in the past): Monster Talk Podcast, July 6th 2016: The Episode They Don’t Want You To Know About (episode 107).
Some interesting bits about the psychology behind conspiracy theories, worth a listen imo.
08-01-2017, 01:33 PM #9
Xfiles taught me: NEVER EVER TRUST ANYTHING YOU SEE! aaa
08-01-2017, 02:59 PM #10
On the other hand, you can also get situations where organisations have lost so much credibility that they are not believed even when they are right. Credibility is easily lost and hard to gain. This might not be such a bad thing, but there is a tendency to substitute a previously held belief for a similar blind faith in something else. In media you often see this with readers and viewers of self-described 'alternative media', which don't necessarily have a better track record than traditional corporate or public media.
08-01-2017, 03:36 PM #11
It just smells wrong to me.
08-01-2017, 03:44 PM #12
The moon landing was independently confirmed by several parties, including the USSR. Either all of those nations would have been duped or would have been part of a conspiracy to dupe the general public, which, considering the USSR being the USSR, would be ludicrous.
08-01-2017, 04:22 PM #13
Governments confirmed that Iraq had WMD's too, I'm not saying I'd get into a drag out knock out fight about it, it just sets off my bullshit-o-meter. Unfortunately, the tools for the falsification of information are so fantastic thanks to the film industry that I'll likely never be completely satisfied.
Had all the astronauts all died from allthecancer I likely wouldn't even blink. I'm not even really suggesting it didn't happen, but that the chaps who are in the history books were not the ones who did it, because the secret heroes died of supercancerturnedtosoupitwasreallygross.
08-01-2017, 04:23 PM #14
Besides, there was litteraly hundreds of thousands of people working on the Apollo project. Even if a mere tenth knew that it was fake, it's still thousands of people. Despite the highest security you can imagine, there was lots of leaks on the Manhattan project, for example. And yet no one, no scientist, no astronaut, no engineer, would have talked ? That's a bit hard to swallow.
The long lives of the astronauts, the lack of radiation shielding, the lack of repetition of equivalent trips two generations later and the signal to noise on the conspiracy.
I think I'm open-minded enough to accept the fact that the moon landings never happened IF I see some convincing evidence. So far I haven't seen any. Besides, moon landing deniers more often than not pile up arguments whithout understanding that it's actually detrimental to their cause. Like, who the hell forgets to take the projectors out of a photo ?
In fact I did not expect this thread to become a discussion on wether X or Y is true or false, but, whatever...
Last edited by LordShadoko; 08-01-2017 at 04:26 PM.
08-01-2017, 06:01 PM #15
Discussing conspiracy theorists without discussing conspiracy is equivalent to trying to separate racists and racism.
08-01-2017, 06:09 PM #16
That's...absolutely true, in fact.
08-01-2017, 06:13 PM #17
Ah, the best conspiracy theorists are these people who think that when you make a worldwide hoax you also overlook major things that can be debunked by people with basic knowledge.
08-01-2017, 06:22 PM #18
Please at least skim this material and see if you can deny that it describes at least one (if not a hundred) examples of coordinated and horrific abuses of power:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethi..._United_States
Do you know what you can call the mothers, fathers, brothers, and sisters who were directly or indirectly affected by these things?
What would you do if you caught a glimpse that these things were happening to a family member, or yourself? You'd be stuck trying to understand something that shouldn't have to be understood. You'd think and say a whole LOT of gibberish before you could ever grasp the situation. Combined with your horrific situation you'll also have to fight uphill against pretty much everyone you know.
Luckily this only occurred in the past and only in the USA, right? It's over. Nothing like this is happening where you live in this day and age.
I don't intend to be mean. Every dumb or blind idea that I could accuse someone of holding is very likely an idea that I also used to hold. Educate yourself and don't stop at such flimsy barriers as "No one would do anything like that" or "If that was happening, someone would have to talk."
08-01-2017, 06:28 PM #19"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor
08-01-2017, 07:07 PM #20there is a zone with a lot of radiation (I don't remember the name)