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Thread: Syrian Civil War
12-05-2014, 08:05 PM #261
Firstly, that above is one of the oddest first posts I've ever seen. Granted, it's true that the bankers and media emperors (looking at you, Murdoch) pretty much do run the world, but that's a strange thing to introduce yourself with.
Anyway, I think the UN should be doing a lot more in this, and if they want to limit casualties and destruction, there should just be a complete embargo - no one should be allowed to supply either side. How to resolve this conflict is something I'm not sure on - Assad has to go because he's a dictator who has no problem killing his own people, but then there's the question of who should replace him.
13-05-2014, 12:17 AM #262
13-05-2014, 05:48 AM #263
Oh Hi Congo still believing in that New World Order stuff?
What brings you to RPS shores?
How to resolve this conflict is something I'm not sure on - Assad has to go because he's a dictator who has no problem killing his own people, but then there's the question of who should replace him.
13-05-2014, 05:16 PM #264
I thought of something along those lines, in that there should be a UN-based committee leadership until things get sorted out, but then there's the problem of who should get to be a part of that.
19-05-2014, 09:47 PM #265
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
The UN would be useless in a syria littered with countless opposing militaristic parties. the UN, being a diplomatic body, is only good in talks. if syria would be "given" to a UN force/government, its just as good as giving it directly to al qaeda.
21-05-2014, 01:58 PM #266
- Join Date
- May 2014
The only way to solve this, actually - is NATO stomping the shit out of everyone on the side of Assad (him included) and any ISIS psychopats. Helped by whatever forces Iraq can muster, Kurdish army and others willing to join.
The only reason why this lasted this long and turned into this kind of chaos is because nobody stepped in, showed a cruising missile down the Assads throat and stomped his army - when they should have.
By stomping the army i mean taking over the air and destroying all tanks and artillery.
Then just leaving the matter on the ground to be settled by Syrians themselves, in a fair fight.
Then there would be no ISIS or extremists appearing - at all.
Last edited by Surface; 21-05-2014 at 03:55 PM.
21-05-2014, 09:59 PM #267
22-05-2014, 12:39 AM #268
Install a puppet government? if the people don't want that, you will just have an uprising in a few years
Let people "decide for themselves"? The problem with that is that those "bad people" you were bombing tend to win those since THEY weren't blowing the shit out of the country and, at the very least, they have less bureaucracy with respect to humanitarian aide and what not (plus, it is REALLY easy to convince people that the foreign invaders are the REAL problem)
Or pick one side and help them. Like when we helped out against the Russian invaders in Afghanistan. That Osama sure was a quick study and he had a really good work ethic.Steam: Gundato
If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.
29-05-2014, 10:23 PM #269
Contrast what happened in Libya versus Syria.
Not a single US troop was deployed on Libyan soil, but the Libyan forces loyal to Gaddafi were easily destroyed using by France and EU military action and airstrikes along with US cruise missiles.
I'm not sure why the same thing was not done in Syria.
That said... I have no confidence that the next regime following Assad will be much better than him anyway.
There is something deeply wrong with a lot of these countries with monocultures. I sometimes start to believe that these monocultures pave the way towards inequality and dictatorships.
I see no solution for many years. The time to act swiftly has long passed. I wonder if any multilateral action will be taken now.
The human cost is 2 million displaced persons and 150,000+ dead. I'm not sure where the threshold of action for multilateral intervention should have been, but I think it probably should've been quite a bit below that level.
Last edited by rockman29; 29-05-2014 at 10:30 PM.
31-05-2014, 02:12 PM #270
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Libya is in a worse state now than it was when gaddafi was in charge and give a few years, the lack of funds from oil that now goes to private companies from the western countries that led the bombings rather than to the libyan government (true that most of it went to gaddafi and relatives, but some at least went for domestic expenses), will see to that the libyan government will not be able to finance its own domestic defense. libya is now a petri dish for terrorism which will leak (if it didn't already) to the rest of the world.
25-08-2014, 03:45 PM #271
I think reviving this thread is appropriate, today, since things are quickly escalating. What does everyone make of the current situation?
25-08-2014, 04:01 PM #272
- Join Date
- Dec 2012
ISIS got facerocekted by Americans in Iraq, so they turned around and pressed Assad. It is a good development, as Assad generally left ISIS alone so to weaken and fragment the rebellion. Perhaps if ISIS presses Assad enough, the government might come to some understanding with the more moderate rebels, fight the common enemy and perhaps end the war with a peace accord and a transition plan.
This is just a far-fetched hope, but it does slightly glimmer. Such a thought would be unimaginable a year or two ago but I am certain both Assad and remnants of FSA/moderates/lesscrazies might have enough of this war by now.
25-08-2014, 10:59 PM #273
How can people subscribe to their murderous rampaging? I don't understand... :(
I wonder how comparatively poor their livelihood/mistreatment by government was before all this happened. Maybe this is why some are so eager, or maybe there are other reasons that people convince themselves murder is the way to go.
Interestingly, there have been (few) vocal muslim leaders in international communities voicing their concern against ISIS. The curious thing however is that most of these leaders are of Shia muslim sect, while ISIS is of Sunni sect it appears and mostly murders Shia and Christian and other faith followers. I do not know of any Sunni sect muslim faith leaders denouncing ISIS. Also Yazidis being murdered (first time I've heard this term).
For all the international community of muslims, I find it so peculiar that in all this strife there is so little public voice from them. But it has been like that in almost every event like this, so it's also not new I guess.
Interestingly Bangladeshi city of Dhaka is also on the lowest 10 of that list, and it is not in a state of war. IIRC sanitation (mainly water sanitation) and flooding and overpopulation are huge issues.
Last edited by rockman29; 25-08-2014 at 11:04 PM.
26-08-2014, 02:20 PM #274
- Join Date
- May 2014
As i was saying... thousands and thousands of murders, tortures, rapes and every other imaginable violent crime ago... which would never happened if action was taken then (already way too late since action should have been taken much, much sooner to prevent these last few years of worst suffering imaginable)
Only one way to end this in a right way.
Glad to see it start to happen. Late as always US, late as always. Hypocritical as always, but atleast something will be done.
Lets hope it continues and Isis is exterminated, while Kurds and moderate Syrian rebels get more power and control in Iraq and Syria.
As to why there are people flocking to Isis ... its rather brutally simple. They have turned themselves into a focal point for every rapist-psychopatch-sadist around. Has nothing to do with any religion and majority of us know-see that.
Horrible things have been done and are being done currently to thousands of civilians right now. The worst a psychopath can do to a helpless victim.
Yet, all those psychopaths are nicely grouping in one single area. Surrounded on all sides.
And their actions, their very deeds are making them light up as subhuman scum and therefore justifies the real full force being applied and all of them exterminated without mercy. Laughable as they are, thinking that their sadistic brutality is something that can actually scare those who actually made and keep the western civilization as it is.
Forgetting, so conveniently, how that civilization and society came to be in the previous century.
Not to forget that US stepping up and doing what it so hard and hypocritically pretends to want to do and be, in this case, will result in the very positive outcome and future influence on a lot of Arabic - Islam - middle east people and countries.
Shame really that there cannot be some sort of agreement between the most powerful nations on earth for joint stomping-out military actions against rabid psychopathic sadists like these, or Boko Haram imbeciles, for example.
The world would be a much better place if that could be achieved.
Not only because such malevolent carcinogenic groups would cease to exist, such individuals removed from reality and human genome, but because such joint operations, clearly and unambigously moraly good and just would strengthen the friendly relations between world super-powers.
Its all there, one reach of a hand away.
But politics and games and "calculations" take the more important role then that and as a result we have a world that is a living real hell.
Despite our history and exactly the same things happening and ending only when the only possible answer was given.
26-08-2014, 08:58 PM #275
I just hope common sense will manage to form some sort of coalition against ISIS. Collaborating to defeat the bigger evil could bring the middle-eastern area some stability and better hopes for the future...I hope.
26-08-2014, 11:40 PM #276
That's also why I advocated stability first.
I did not at all, at all, at all like the fact that USA supported FSA/terrorist militants in Syria with weapons and arms.
And the US government openly supported this. John McCain advocated that "yes we must support the rebels. Because rebellion is good and keeps government honest" which is a common theme in US politics/making people happy.........
It was never going to end well. Now that ISIS has become a "thing" it's like the worst possible scenario I think! Nothing could be worse can it? They have carved several countries into their "caliphate" in Syria and Iraq and so on and they just seem to further spill over more and more according to the maps constantly being updated on BBC/other websites.
One of my attendings is from Cameroon, we sometimes talk about random politics stuff for fun (mainly have fun overanalyzing FOX news). But something interesting he says about Cameroon is that there is a massive problem with corruption or something (I forget what exactly he said) in the government. But the thing he likes about the government is that it is able to keep peace between most of the country, and he says that more people would die if that government was not in power, so that is the only reason he supports that government.
It's choosing one or two of the evils out of a list of *many evil things* but that is also how I felt about supporting war-time scenario in Syria. Destabilising the region was just not going to help at all. Whatever USA did, Russia did, and other NATO/BRIC whatever countries may have done in contributing, I cannot support that because of what happened now due to that supporting war through funneling arms towards rebels AND terrorists.
The new death toll in Syria has moved from 150,000 a few months ago to 190,000 btw.
I do not think the correct plan of action was to promote war. I think it should have been to first promote stability, even if that meant protecting Assad. It doesn't mean any other measures should be in place to support the Assad regime.... but only to promote stability to protect life first. Change through violence as we can see here is not a good idea for the Middle East......
I really, really don't understand how ISIS is attracting foreigners, it boggles the imagination, hopefully those in EU/NA are understanding this more, the ones who have the power to prevent this hopefully. Like.... how do people like this turn into Islamic militants? Boggles my mind personally. These are some Americans who died in Syria for extremists..... http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28945626
Moner Mohammad Abu-Salha
Last edited by rockman29; 27-08-2014 at 12:00 AM.
27-08-2014, 09:09 PM #277
It is wrong to call Sunni Muslims, or even Shia ones (my opinion about these though) members of a "sect". Because, the majority of Muslims *are* Sunni Muslims, while other... "factions" have over time come to existence, which can be called "sects". Just wanted to say this, for now at least.
31-08-2014, 03:41 PM #278
So Syrian army helped to save Filipino soldiers. Are they the good guys now? Should we be changing past documents to show that they were always the good guys?
31-08-2014, 04:30 PM #279
31-08-2014, 10:49 PM #280
Seeing all the THE ONLY GOOD MUSLIM IS A DEAD MUSLIM ranting in the comments on The Economist's website (for a liberal paper they sure do seem to attract a lot of hardcore right-wing nuts) I wonder what it would take before governments started to entertain the idea of catering to that crowd, and whether we're closer than we like to think.
One guy was suggesting internment camps - seems like a paranoid fantasy (they could be anywhere! It's the only way to be sure! etc.) and like I said, TE draws a lot of cranks... but if some hitherto undiscovered IS cell pulled off a large-scale atrocity in some major British city, for example, how easy would it be for a Tory government to sell that kind of response to committed Daily Mail readers? I don't want to see any of that happen, obviously! And I'm not suggesting the West is on the brink just yet... but I don't think calling this a war is all that far-fetched, and while I can understand no politician would be that keen to publicly use those words (even die-hard hawkish Republicans), I worry how far things would have to go before they'd have to concede that they really didn't have a choice.
I don't think IS is composed of nothing but psychopaths and fanatics, but I do think there's not really any negotiating with them. Definitely not as a singular entity. Fundamentalist interpretations of Islam have no place in the modern world, end of story. That doesn't mean we have to turn the Middle East into a sea of glass or any such ghastly 'MURRICA, FUCK YEAH thinking, but it will mean that sooner or later the West will have to do some deeply unpleasant things with a high human cost, I'm pretty certain. Even if it just means abandoning/cutting off large swathes of the Middle East and letting them turn into the next North Korea (famine, corruption, human rights abuses, millions dead etc., etc.). (Helping the Kurds et al push IS back is one thing, but getting them to take back the territory IS have claimed would be quite another.)