Results 61 to 80 of 114
09-11-2012, 12:20 PM #61
Ergh can you imagine if Mitt won that election, I still don't know how anyone believed that guy he just oozed fakeness and horribleness with every pore. It also seems funny that only old white people seem to have voted for him...oh old white people when will you learn
09-11-2012, 12:27 PM #62
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09-11-2012, 12:31 PM #63
09-11-2012, 12:56 PM #64
09-11-2012, 01:19 PM #65
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09-11-2012, 04:18 PM #66
Turkey loves sabre-rattling at Syria, but they're not going to do anything without American support. Israel's been sabre-rattling at Iran, but they're not going to do anything without American support. The member nations of the EU certainly liked to cheerlead when America butted into Bosnian affairs, and France basically said "Hey, America, think fast!" when they went off to bomb Libya. It's the American navy hitting Somalians, and every time some atrocity happens in what are still sovereign nations, we get foreign pundits saying, "and where were the Americans?"
It seems that for all the complaints about American interventionism - and there are many, many legitimate complaints - American non-interventionism would result in far, far more.
09-11-2012, 05:10 PM #67
That looks like a Catch-22, doesn't it? America intervened in many foreign affairs for a variety of reasons, and now this intervention is actually counted on by the political power players in the region.
But that's talking only about the governments and international organizations. I'm curious to see what the opinion of the regular people in those countries is.
In a related note, I just came across this link in an MMO blog and it highlights many of the problems the newish elected government is facing. Being just an outside observer - albeit one that would much rather see the USA reclaim its importance in the world than let China fill that vacuum - I can say this reflects many of my viewpoints on the country as well.
09-11-2012, 05:20 PM #68
09-11-2012, 05:32 PM #69
09-11-2012, 05:52 PM #70
- Keeping the political discourse focused on external threats is a good way to distract the people from internal problems. You had one whole presidential debate dedicated to foreign policy, for crying out loud.
- As an extension of the point above, keeping your people in fear is one of the most powerful (and abused) tools in politics, allowing the government to take actions (like the Patriot Act) that would be less easily tolerated if not for the perennial threat of war.
- Military spending fuels a HUGE industry, with very close ties to many politicians. There's a lot of profit to be made from wars. This profit helps elect people and keep them in power - who in turn have it in their best interest to make sure there is always a demand for more military spending.
09-11-2012, 06:06 PM #71
09-11-2012, 06:09 PM #72
Point 2: Fear of what? Most people don't even know we are still at war. The patriot act was a kneejerk reaction to 9/11 not the product of decades of war.
Point 3: Except that pretty much every conflict since WW2 has cost the US economy not helped to bolster it.
09-11-2012, 06:25 PM #73
I didn't watch the debate in full - nor have the desire to do so - but from the excerpts I've seen, it looks like it didn't stick to the subject because the candidates' positions were so similar it would have been a full hour exchanging "I agree"s and uneasy smiles...
Can you really say the effect of the fear-mongering has completely waned? Don't you still feel the changes brought to airport security, for instance, or the mistrust and mistreatment of people originating from cultures demonized as "the enemy"? What about the acts allowing execution or imprisonment without trial for whatever people the government deems deserving? Would that have been accepted by the American people were it not for the culture of fear fostered by those who gained power from it?
Granted, things are much better now than a decade ago, but the Democratic government has done much less than it promised to combat the effect of those decisions.
As for the third point, of course the wars hurt the economy and make society, in general, suffer. It's not society who benefits from these wars; it's individuals and corporations. And they do profit, immensely.
09-11-2012, 06:49 PM #74
09-11-2012, 06:49 PM #75Turkey loves sabre-rattling at Syria, but they're not going to do anything without American support.
09-11-2012, 06:50 PM #76
09-11-2012, 06:58 PM #77
This incident and this incident have strong resemblances to a USS Maine event (or, for a 20th century example, a Marco Polo Bridge event), and Turkey has been requesting American action when it comes to Syria.
Why does the F4 Phantom shit sound like a false flag operation? Because F4 Phantoms are not in active service in Turkey. Their main air force are F16s, and F16s can't be shot down by the aging Cold War era shit that Syria have for their anti-aircraft batteries.
09-11-2012, 07:08 PM #78
Nalano, why are you hanging to a minor point of my message - that the main theme of one of the 3 presidential debates was foreign policy - to try to invalidate the whole argument? I had higher hopes of this conversation from the way it started.
And my main point is not that the American people are ill-informed. I hope that's not the impression I'm causing.
Hypernetic, nope, I'm not supporting any 9/11 nutter conspiracy theory*. But surely you can realize that the American government at the time could - and did - capitalize on the disaster to further their agenda? They don't need to have had any direct involvement with it to leverage the aftermath for political gain.
It's much more than just two issues into one. I'm talking about the consequences of 8 years with a fear-mongering party in power. The few examples I'm giving shouldn't be taken as separate cases, but symptoms of a culture of fear that has held American politics back for way too long.
* Whether 9/11 could have been prevented if the government at the time had acted more appropriately on the information they had is debatable. But I don't think it warrants theories that they deliberately fumbled national defense to create such a disaster. They do exist, though.
Last edited by Maknol; 09-11-2012 at 07:11 PM.
09-11-2012, 07:14 PM #79
Meanwhile, China is getting rid of its leading party's senior members, to replace them with the junior ones due to "public uproar" of sorts.
This seems a tad more important than the overhyped US elections.
09-11-2012, 07:16 PM #80