Rock, Paper, Shotgun

Doctoring The Tardis: All Aspect Warfare

By Kieron Gillen on January 27th, 2009 at 6:34 pm.

A tank on a flat green plane. Hurrah for tanks on a green plane.
I noticed 3000AD had released seventeen (count ‘em!) minutes of footage from the flying section of their now-Beta forthcoming sci-fi multi-terrain elite-force-on-hostile-world-’em-up All Aspect Warfare electrovideogame. They’ve planning to release two more videos, one showing vehicular shenanigans and the other showing tactical fistifights. So well done them. I link to it, primarily as I’m aware that 3000AD are about as PC gaming as PC gaming gets and we’ve never said anything at all about them – and I wonder what everyone’s take on the critically divisive company actually is. Do feel free to speak. I was also considering doing one of my second-by-second running commentary of it, but… seventeen minutes, man! I have angry twitters to write in block caps.

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114 Comments »

  1. meeper says:

    I grew tired of Derek Smart in the 90s. I didn’t realize he was still pimping his crap.

  2. undead dolphin hacker says:

    Derek Smart Derek SMART DEREK SMART

    Derek Smart is fueled by the souls of the damned!

    Now you’re going to get sued LOL

  3. teo says:

    This is sooooo PC

  4. Lim-Dul says:

    Wow – so many years have passed and the game looks as crappy as ever. ^^
    If you include ground combat in your massive sim then you sure as hell should at least make it look good…
    Also, the music in the videos got IMMENSELY annoying after a while. If they tried to put me off this game then I have to congratulate Derek Smart and his team. ^^

  5. Tei says:

    I have buy a beta of this games like 4 years ago (???). Or something (??). It was a horrible bad and broken game (sad history). Is strange that this guy or team is still tryiing to make a game around this engine and idea (?!?!).

  6. Lim-Dul says:

    By the way – I just looked on their site and this is the description that comes with the videos:

    ““Hornet’s Nest” features an intense air combat engagement which starts off with an aircraft selection. Due to its size, it has been released in two parts. Part 1 (running time 04:58) shows the mission planning, asset selection and ingress to the strike area. Part 2 (running time 12:15) shows the combat that ensues at the strike zone once all hell breaks loose.”

    Intense air combat? As all hell breaks loose? This video was so boring that my “Let’s Play POWDER” (blatant plug ;-) series look like a summer action movie blockbuster by comparison. ;-)
    Also, the flight mechanics (however “advanced” the aircraft might have been) seemed as if they reflected more of a space flight model (which is where 3000AD started anyway)… I won’t even mention the interface… They just can’t get it right and always stumble on their own ambitions, don’t they?

  7. Markoff Chaney says:

    Wow! Sometimes, you think something flames out so hard it won’t be back, ever. And then it keeps chugging along. And you totally know nothing about the last 12 years of its development since you kinda figured it was done. How could anything survive that? And, lo and behold, it is still there. And you are a dozen years older. Wow…

    Maybe there’s hope for my lifetime Hellgate: London subscription after all!

  8. D says:

    Heat seeking missiles locking onto SAM battery? HOW?!

    I played the Battlecruiser 3000 one (I think) until I ran out of fuel and was stranded forever.

  9. M_the_C says:

    I’ve always loved the idea behind this series (because it is still the same series…), but it never quite manages to carry it off. The visuals have been updated, but the interface looks exactly the same, and the complex control system was the problem in the first place.
    I hope they at least do a proper tutorial this time.

  10. Mike says:

    I heard their website’s pretty good.

  11. ouchee says:

    man that looks terrible in every way. i’d rather play be playing armour-geddon or a new zero.

  12. Cooper42 says:

    I’ve got no problems with games asking for patience with an immensely intollerant learning curve, it’s what PC gaming is all about. But, whereas games which require such immense patience such as Dwarf Fortress usually come with immense payoffs in terms of the world of detail and depth, Derek Smart’s games are just fundamentaly cumbersome.

    Cumbersome, ugly, inarticulate, broken, impatient, shallow and liable to tantrums. And that’s just the games.

    (ooohhhh… see what I did there…. Me-ow!)

  13. Chris says:

    Well, at least it looks like they know how to copy examples out of the GPU Gems book series.

  14. Steven says:

    Oh. My. God. I’m by no means a hardcore flight sim player, but this goes way beyond the simplified physics of arcade flight sims. It is hard to comprehend how one can butcher this so badly. My IQ probably dropped just from watching the retarded flight physics.

    Oh, and the blatant disregard for the bullets and missiles on the part of the pilot. You’d think the plane would be shredded after the first minute, but it goes on and on (and on)…

  15. Shawn says:

    I bought BC when it first came out and could never play past 4 or 5 jumps between systems, years later updates come out and the game is still broken. The main thing wrong with the picture above is its a ground combat game and there is NO terrain, not a single tree or even a bump in the ground all the way to the horizon. That attention to detail pretty much explains how far behind the time Derek Smart and his gang are. They cannot compete with the current gaming industry. Here’s some excellent advice, lease the Lock On: Modern Air Combat engine (used to be Russian flight simulator), create some new models, slap on some artwork and boom – new BattleCruiser that will sell, work and be worth some money.

  16. j39 says:

    I guess I’m going to be a bit of a black sheep (or some proper equivalent) and say that um the concept of OMG LARGE SPACE FREEDOM WITH TINY DETAILS was/is always immensely amusing/entertaining and/or attractive.

    Oh you talking about the new game from 3000AD? I need to watch the trailer(s).

    Info on website seem to say that they’re now trying to do things which more peeps are going to enjoy, instead of staying the course. THey did drop that Battlecruiser series didn’t they? Just kept the setting.

    PS Website is pretty. Do they get points?

  17. Alaric says:

    The FPS part looks like the original Unreal Tournament with the following notable differences:

    1) the ground is generally flat and without a single object
    2) the character’s hands are … weird
    3) the weapons look like they got fewer polygons in them

    The flight part, I can’t really comment on since I don’t play flight sims and can’t compare. It looks 1997 to me, but maybe I am just a stupid hater.

  18. Colthor says:

    I tried to play Battlecruiser once, because I really like space games (and it was free), but didn’t manage to get anywhere with it that I recall. Maybe I should try it again – at least it wouldn’t be downloaded over a modem this time and, alas, there’s not much else that lets you fly a space-ship these days – but… Well…

  19. Tei says:

    Is funny that turrets rotate.. but the whole turret rotate. Like this engine don’t support model animations.

  20. Nick says:

    I LIKE THE WEBSITE I WONDER WHO MADE IT.

    ¬_¬

  21. Springy says:

    At least their website is AAA quality.

  22. Mike says:

    Glad to see I’m not the only one of this opinion!

  23. Leeks! says:

    It is my sincerest hope that one day, Derek Smart will make a playable game, as the ideas behind all of his previous releases give me what can only be described as a colossal, uncontrollable nerd boner.

    Also: Did anyone look at the system reqs for this? They’re pretty gosh darn steep for a game with decade old graphics. Not that it’s surprising, but still.

  24. Dinger says:

    careful, he’ll be woken from his millennial slumber.

  25. Dizet Sma says:

    I wondered who was making a mod for Falcon with a crappier cockpit, until I realised that this was supposed to be a 2009 game, not one from 1989…

  26. Lim-Dul says:

    careful, he’ll be woken from his millennial slumber.

    TRIPLE millennial slumber. Ho, ho – what an ingenious pun. ;-)

  27. Still annoyed says:

    I think RPS should do an interview with Derek Smart. They’ve interviewed that Vince D. Weller dude twice, so why not?

  28. Alaric says:

    I concur. Go out and interview him.

  29. pirate0r says:

    *sigh* Derek Smart, a guy who over promises – ‘look everyone, my game will cure cancer and bring about world peace’
    and under delivers – ‘your game won’t install? You must be doing it wrong, FORUM BAN!!’

  30. Dizet Sma says:

    From the website blurb:

    “on this near-barren planet which rotates around the Sun every 240 minutes (compared to Earth’s 1440).”

    That’s not right, surely?

  31. Mil says:

    Not unless the year has been drastically shortened.

  32. Jonas says:

    Okay guys, are we all done beating up Derek Smart with words now? Can we get back to talking about the actual game? Perhaps even in a politely critical tone? Is that too much to ask?

  33. gulag says:

    Jesus wept, that was painful to watch.

  34. Gap Gen says:

    Did Derek Smart purposely make a game that looked that ugly so he could browbeat people who complained how ugly it looks?

    Also, I have no idea what is going on in that video.

  35. Andrew says:

    It gives good website.

  36. Axess Denyd says:

    I read all the previews and was very excited about Battlecruiser when it first came out. I ran out and bought it the day of release… I think we all know how that went.

    When he finally fixed it and there was a game that was theoretically functional, but was still terrible, I pretty much gave up.

    I think a new Independence War (which I seem to remember him hating) would be pretty awesome though.

  37. Peace of Eight says:

    “Team”?! Derek, are you still carrying that dead mouse in your pocket?

  38. NuZZ says:

    Reminds me of Grandmas Boy… That matrix game… Ahaha.

  39. j39hsieh says:

    hmm another game of the flyi n space variety is from StarWraith, I think its a one man band with a penchant for moody orchestra, but quality moody stuff. Even rleased some of his oldr things for free!

    One major pro: SP CUSTOMIZATIO! rotate/resize/choose ship components to ur fancy!!!

    oh the lnk:

  40. Erlam says:

    Does this game have physics, or.. actual textures? That’s one of the most barren looking games I’ve ever seen.

  41. chiablo says:

    The x000AD games are brilliant simulators. Except they forgot the most important part… the fun. I’m sure there are people out there who get enjoyment out of these games. They are probably hard core accountants, or EVE online players.

  42. Herpers says:

    Team fortress two update coming tomorrow! http://www.teamfortress.com/ make a post ASAP

  43. Anti-Hater says:

    “No, sorry, I can’t. We can’t. Derek’s antics ruled that course of action out about a decade ago.”

    Have you ever noticed that people online only ever use the word ‘sorry’ when they really aren’t? Quit making a mockery of the language, people! *shakes fist*

    In contrast to the rampant immaturity on display in the comments here, I’d just like to say that I find it a shame that the Battlecruiser series never reached it’s potential. In terms of the potential alone, it’s the kind of game that the industry as a whole seems to have abandoned, and this is a bad thing for all of us. Without that kind of ambition we would never have had Elite or GTA or any of the great titles we currently hold in such high regard.

    While Derek Smarts games were often buggy, difficult to get into, and lacking in refinement I still managed to have fun with some of the earlier games in the series. Derek was even kind enough to send me a free copy of BC Millenium during a period of Illness I was suffering at the time (all I did was send him an email telling him how much I’d enjoyed the demo). Sadly, I lost interest in the series as I do with most things.

    Still, I’m curious to see how these new games play, now that development focus has narrowed.

  44. Stew says:

    I care not for the game, but the subject line has left me with Doctorin’ The Tardis running through my head. For the past hour. It doesn’t take much these days, but still. Well done Kieron, you magnificent bastard.

    Part of me is also wondering if The Manual (written, after all, about the production, release, and fallout from Doctorin’) is at all relevant to 3000AD’s development plans. I wouldn’t be too surprised.

  45. Gap Gen says:

    “Have you ever noticed that people online only ever use the word ’sorry’ when they really aren’t? Quit making a mockery of the language, people! “

    British people say sorry all the time.

  46. Heliocentric says:

    We are quite generally a sorry people, take that as you will.

    This game could be genius, so i’ll hold off til we get some kind of code. But it looks like a car crash in a vector factory.

  47. Will says:

    I remember reading the ‘what this game will be like to play’ text for the original BC when I was at college (I think) and it sounded fabulous. Not so sure about the end result.

    I also feel compelled to dislike Derek Smart because he said bad things about our game (I-War 2) but I can’t find them on the internet so maybe it was all a dream?

  48. Danny says:

    Well. I don’t really care for high res textures and all that, but I do friggin’ care about atmosphere. And this game lacks it. A lot.

  49. Will says:

    Oh wait, I did find it:

    Contrary to popular belief, the I-War games did *not* have a Newtonian physics model. And even though it had a pseudo version thereof, we all know what happened to I-War 2 in the retail channel and the subsequent demise of the devs.

    Thats my take on the whole subject.

    I was pretty sure when were building the game that we put a decent Newtonian rigid body simulator in there, but I must have been mistaken. Tread carefully, Derek Smart, because you tread on my dreams.

  50. D says:

    I-War 2 was awesomeest. Thanks for that!

  51. Skonar says:

    I played Universal Combat, one of the precursor games, and basically I think it’s the same game with updated graphics now. The major issues involve the interface, which is obtuse, and the tutorial, which was a block of text sixty pages long I had to _print out_ because, IIRC, the game didn’t like alt-tabbing. Furthermore the tutorial mission scenario scripting, should you deviate from instructions by one jot, became unplayable so you’d need to restart the entire thing… Just horribly painful.

    As for I-War 2 and I-War, they were some of my absolute favourites. The worldbuilding that went into those games made them incredibly rich and tasty. Also, Jefferson Clay = The Man. But, I think it also had some fairly crucial interface problems, although these were dealt with excellently by the tutorial missions in I-War and the ‘child’ segment in I-War 2.

  52. phil says:

    Derek Smart must be interviewed, the man’s attracted so much negative publicity that the mere mention of his name conjures images of bugs, poor implementation and broken promises. It must be like being Uwe Boll. On that, perhaps a RPS representative could box Mr. Smart post-interview, is anyone aware of his size, fitness, training or blood group?

  53. Will says:

    I think we dropped the ball on the IW2 tutorial by not explaining the importance of lateral (WASD) thrusters to combat. We all knew how to do it, so it just didn’t occur to us that this was unusual, but if you play exclusively with the stick and throttle the combat can get pretty brutal.

  54. danielcardigan says:

    I thought you loved independent devs here.

    DS must be doing something right if his core audience is still buying his games. All his recent stuff has been self-financed hasn’t it?

    He used to pop onto the Blues News forums, back when I frequented them, and while you could set him off sometimes for the most part he was polite and insightful. I personally find his games unplayable (I am currently X3TC’s utter slave, and it’s not like that’s an easy game to get into but seriously the BC series is just bonkers.) but you have to respect his integrity in sticking to “the vision”.

    Okay, you don’t HAVE TO. You can just make jokes about him attacking coke machines. Whatever.

  55. cheeba says:

    @will: Thanks so much for I-War 2. Best game in its genre I’ve played to this day. Fantastic job there mate.

  56. Future I-Warrior says:

    @Will

    Hey, I bought a copy of I-War 2 off eBay a month or two ago, never having tried it. I was very impressed, but found the game difficult to play without a joystick – the first proper fights I got into kept kicking my ass. Would you recommend getting one, or I am just pants at the game?

    Anyone?

  57. Heliocentric says:

    a 360 pad using x padder might well be one of the strongest options.

    You can set the 2 analogue sticks to whatever combination takes your fancy and set the analgue triggers to either roll or acceleration i guess.

    Probably not enough face buttons but you’ve still got a keyboard for that.

  58. Chaz says:

    Personally I applaud Derek Smart for trying to make a game with a bit of depth and scope, and having the balls to tackle such an ambitious project. It’s a shame it doesn’t quite pull it off, but these are the sort of games that we should be encouraging a lot more of on the PC, rather than sloppy console ports. For me games like Elite, Midwinter, X-BTF etc are what home computer gaming has been all about. I can’t understand why games like this don’t get more money for development. Just imagine how good it would be if it was done “right”.

  59. Steve says:

    People would probably have more time for him if he and his community weren’t so angry. They make No Mutants Allowed look like my mother on a lorry full of camomile. They do actually forum ban people who persist in having problems. Alt-tab support, for example, only idiots with short memories need. Access to instant messanger is right out because you’re supposed to “dedicate yourself” to this.
    I got into the X games for a while and when I got stuck their forums were polite and helpful by and large.
    The hate’s not really about the games. It’s about Derek Smart being an arse.

  60. Chaz says:

    Well that is rather sad then if he surrounds himself with sycophants and shoots his own game in the foot. I’ve never tried the game myself because I’ve always read negative reviews and comments about it, that and it does look rather ropey. However the idea of the game has always excited me whenever I’ve read about it. Taking part in huge space battles in orbit around a planet, and then flying down through the atmosphere to commence the planetary invasion, and all in multiplayer too, sounds bloody great. Now if only some one would come along and make a decent game like that.

  61. Endless Dreamer says:

    @Chaz: Seconded.

  62. Catastrophe says:

    Decent 3 had better graphics.

  63. dsmart says:

    *sigh*

    It is hard to appreciate the challenges of doing something different and something you actually want to do and love doing.

    You guys can make fun of me and my games all you like but the fact is, unlike most, I still get to make the games that I want to make, regardless of who thinks, says or does what.

    Best of all? I still have a job and a company going into its 14th year and a career spanning 20+ years and fourteen commercial game releases.

    Nobody gets to fire me, shut my company down, cut my funding, tell me what I can/cannot create etc. So, uhm, yeah, go ahead, take your potshots.

    Fact of the matter is that when you’re doing a 400 sq. km open world game that is designed to look decent at any altitude, there are lots of compromises to be made.

    We’re not talking about flight games which look awesome at high altitude and shit at low altitudes. This terrain engine was designed from scratch to be decent at any altitude. Go compare it to the likes of UBi’s upcoming H.A.W.X – which isn’t even on par with the venerable Ace Combat 6 – which by itself, ONLY looks good a high altitude, looks like shit at low altitude and has awesome models based on real-world aircraft.

    When you’re doing a shoebox game (see Ace Combat 6, H.A.W.X etc), you can do a lot of things. I am not going to throw in 2D bitmap trees just to create an ‘environment’.

    This is not some Unreal Engine game shoehorned to be a combat sim. I do in fact have a SpeedTreeRT license. We just haven’t implemented it yet. And when we do, the barren areas of the planet – e.g. desert, canyons etc will still be barren.

    This game, like the title says, caters to a variety of gameplay environments. In this regard, a LOT of compromises have to be made in order to make the game fun, playable and accessible.

    At the end of the day, the graphics engines are just fine (only an ass would make a determination based on compressed video footage) for what they need to do and the environment they need to render.

    I specifically did this 17 minute combat footage in order to attract the attention of those who *want* to get the real feeling of *flight* when playing a game that touts it; as opposed to the hack (see every Unreal game with airborne vehicles, Frontlines, BF games etc) that is prevalent in most games that give you a ton of assets in which the only differences in dynamics modeling are some variable tweaks here and there to turn a fps traversal engine into a vehicular or aerial dynamics one.

    Also, after seeing the footage from the H.A.W.X travesty, I wanted to – again – remind gamers that there are those of us (old school PC game devs) here who *do* value the PC gaming environment. Something I touched on in my latest dev blog entry.

    I never have – and never will – design, fund and develop games for the masses. I cater to the same like minded folks who keep buying my games. Invariably, as with all games, you win some, you lose some. Doing what you love and being able to pay your bills so you continue to do just that, is the key to success.

    So yeah, go ahead, laugh. Your Pink slip (to go with the Pink tutu) is just around the corner. Me? I get to make games.

  64. Zer0 says:

    Uh-oh, RPS! Look what you started!

  65. Will says:

    Thanks all for the kind words.

    @Future I-Warrior

    Funnily enough, I reinstalled the game the other day and it worked nicely with my Xbox 360 Controller – I’d suggest trying one of those before getting a flight stick. I didn’t need to use XPadder – it just worked, and the default mapping is pretty sensible. The only big issue is the way the triggers don’t quite work right as the ‘set speed’ throttle.

    Have fun! I still enjoy the combat + piracy – one of these days I ought to try and finish the storyline…

  66. Will says:

    Oh yeah, and the lack of face buttons isn’t a huge problem. You need the keyboard for external views and stuff, but the flight controls were designed to work on the Dreamcast pad so you can get to (nearly?) everything via the HUD menu using the D-Pad plus A to select and B to cancel. This also works in the menus.

  67. Larington says:

    I’m withholding judgement until its released and the reviews come in, for better or worse.

  68. Tei says:

    “”Fact of the matter is that when you’re doing a 400 sq. km open world game that is designed to look decent at any altitude, there are lots of compromises to be made.

    We’re not talking about flight games which look awesome at high altitude and shit at low altitudes.”"

    Mr. dsmart, check again the video because this is not true. On the ground the scene with the human character, the ground look obviously lowpoly and too zoomed. Not even a detail texture or other help. Most engines stop zooming a texture beyond some limit, your engine don’t and the result looks ugly. Your comment is erroneous here. Your engine don’t really seems to support low altitude well at all.

    I have one of your games, and I think was a error to buy it. On almost 30 years playing and buying games, your game is maybe the worst game I have buy. And It was almost exactly like that one. And thats was eons ago.

  69. dsmart says:

    Tei, you have no frigging clue wtf you’re talking about. So please suppress your desire to look ignorant and foolish.

    I know that being one of the boys on the bandwagon is a badge of honor for anti-social misfits. So I’m not going to play your game. Don’t like the game? Move along then.

    I can’t imagine that you own one of my games because the average person who actually owns – or even plays – one of my games, has more common sense than that which your inconsequential – and rubbish – post seems to portray.

    To wit: from looking at shots and videos, you can tell everything about the camera zoom, terrain poly count (which, btw is 2:1 if you even know what means) etc. Apart from the fact that the character isn’t even standing on the bare terrain, but on an asphalt splat on top of it. There are numerous shots – and videos – already released showing the character at ground zero on various parts of the terrain.

    You’re just like that other one few posts up wondering why the fighter wasn’t shot down…clearly forgetting what cheat codes during testing are for.

    There is a reason why flight combat games look like crap at low altitudes. I’ll leave the reasons for your next homework assignment. You might learn something.

  70. Heliocentric says:

    Firstly. Environments can add visual noise with procedural generation. I don’t care if you add random trees with no hit boxes. Or fractally pre determined ones which factor into hit detection while remaining viable for online play. But add some terrain, i know its early. But space gives you a free pass, it can be empty and thats okay. Planets can just be skybox material. But the moment you let people go to planets that soil must have character or people will realise those barren spheres are vaules in an array of barren spheres.

    But figure out how to add natural shifting terrain populated by a range of plant life? Suddenly every inch of the battlefield is real. And the fact you can fly past it at 500kph is massive empowering. Terrifying even. Flying over los santos in a stolen fighter jet in san andreas was to me the emotional pinnacle of the whole game. Jesus, every inch of that place mattered to me. Filled with threats targets and places the road is bumpy. Look at me now, look at me now.

    Even in the narratively barren battlefield 2, every tree rock and shack i fly past is real. A place a real person could be hiding. A place i could jump out my plane and land. This hill matters, not because it has a flag on it, but because want that flag, they make it real. Yes, but not just the people, its the burned out cars and the abandoned villages. Its that bush that you can use to hide from the north but still be hidden from the west because of a short wall.

    If the inches dont matter, neither do the miles.

  71. Tei says:

    I have made this image for you.

    Your engine vs Call of Duty 4

    As you see, on CoD4 the pixels of the ground texture are hardly noticeable. On your engine the pixels are noticeable, are like 32 pixeles wide… are less noticeable because the texture is smoothed… but you can still.

    Maybe your engine is good for a flyiing simulator /space simulator thingie, but this effect I show to you, In my humble opinion, is hard on the eyes. Most games avoid this effect. I suspect you are pushing your engine beyond what It aceptabily renders. Other than that, I applaud your efforts. Is hard to make a game, you have all my admiration on that.

  72. Redd says:

    See, it was the COMPRESSION on the video that made it look shit, and it was so long winded to show that it really doesn’t CTD all the time as you’d expect. You guys know nothing.

  73. Zer0 says:

    I’ll wait for the free version.

  74. dsmart says:

    @ Heliocentric

    Absolutely. No argument there. And we are in fact doing most of that already. As I mentioned before, we alredy have SpeedTreeRT specifically for areas which would benefit from vegetation. Just haven’t implemented it yet until we finish the multiplayer profiling since the added 3D assets has the potential to cause all kinds of problems in a client/server environment.

    But again, you’re forgetting the term ‘scope’ here. You can do all those things in a small scale and quite effectively. Attempting that on a large scale results in a) irrelevant clutter b) a game that requires higher than normal sys. requirements.

    Case in point: The Operation Flashpoint games.

    Adding stuff is not the issue. The issue is keeping track off and rendering all of it – at various altitudes. Not to mention the nightmare that is “collision detect” on such a large scale.

    @ Tei

    You truly are an idiot and have proven – again – that you have no frigging clue what you’re talking about. So you come up with an Apples (closed box level) to Oranges (400 sq km open world) strawman argument? I’m just going to ignore you because it is quite evident that you’re clueless.

  75. RPS says:

    Be civil gentlemen, or we will purge the thread.

  76. Heliocentric says:

    If you can add rocks to that tree app? And depending on the plot, small towns/burned out millitary vehicles/strange alien monoliths you may well extend your buyers beyond “your customers” to also those who are driven by the emotion of scale and place as i am.

  77. Future I-Warrior says:

    Thanks, Will. I’ll see if I can nab my friend’s X-box controller for a weekend and have a play. Will be just the thing after the spaghetti-monster-awful week I’ve been having.

  78. Tei says:

    I suppose a Quake 2 level can be 1×1 km wide. Maybe much more. But If you make the player character 1/400 the original size, the resulting map will look 400×400 km wide.
    The problem with that experiment, is that (withouth more changes) the ground texture will look ugly. And thats how that screenshot look. The texture is zoomed in beyond aceptable quality levels. And maybe that easy to fix, adding detail textures, or something.

    Here is a tutorial how to add detail textures.
    http://www.vterrain.org/Textures/detail.html

  79. Heliocentric says:

    Why does will get thanks? I’m the suggestee *sobs*

  80. pepper says:

    Tei, true just take a look at HL rally.

    Dsmart, if you are afraid the added models will cause a problem in the MP environment then im afraid you are taking the wrong approach. a good thing would be to add them and then test it, then the other way around, since now you can easily modify the base code of the MP client, so it handles the moddels and collision different.

    If you really have that many polygons, then why do you even keep the grassy area extremely flat? It wouldnt be hard to add a little noise to it, enough algorithms around for that i would say. Even if it isnt final it helps with showing the concept to the people.

    Animations, is it just me or does your engine lack a good support for model animations? The pivot legs of the SAM site seemd to rotate completely, instead of keeping the same firmly embedded into the ground.

    Wheels of the big vehicle in the first video:

    Whats up with them? Looks like a terrible simple solution, instead of modelling them and then making a fitting texture you just dropped in a cylinder and applied a texture over it, the BG colour of the texture is still visible. No offence, but i would find myself a different modeller and texture artist, the models look horribly simplistic to start with anyway. Do you have any raw figures for us on the engines rendering capabilities, number of animations and polygons supported by model, what format, texture type/usuage per model etc.? That gives us a much better view of what your engine is capable of. It appears there is no shadow map either, from looking on the screenshot that appeared on the website, and AA is also lacking. Will these features be implemented?

    Try making a dedicated interior model for the hornet fighter, it looks like your modeller just slapped a few gauges into the exterior model to save time.

    Some textures have photoshop filter written all over them, its not a bad idea to make a base in photoshop, but nothing can beat mixing them up with real photo’s, it beats any random generator by far.

    Either way, good luck on your engine, maby you shouldnt be putting so much media attention to it whilst there is still very little to show and most of it looks alpha stage.

  81. dsmart says:

    @ Heliocentric

    Actually things like rocks, boulders and such are handled directly by the terrain engine using procedural generation.

    The vegetation is handled exclusively by SpeedTreeRT

    As for burned out towns and such, uhm, this is a “near barren” alien planet. :)

    TBH, I didn’t even think past populating the areas of interests (aka. bases) since thats where most of the gaming will take place.

    Unlike standard flight sims which use boring standard boxes and rectangular objects to represent “clutter”, each of our buildings in bases is unique, most have indoor levels etc.

    For one thing, flying a Mach 2 and dodging SAMs and surface to air guns, the last thing you’d be doing is staring at the scenery….which, depending on the altitude, you won’t see anyway.

    As I said before, designing and developing a game that has prevalent gaming elements such as land, air, sea – and fps action – is daunting in itself, outside of the tech required to actually do it.

    Anyway, we still have a few more months to go. I am also planning an open publiic “Tech Test” in the coming weeks. Thats when folks get to abuse me some more. :)

  82. pepper says:

    [i]Fact of the matter is that when you’re doing a 400 sq. km open world game that is designed to look decent at any altitude, there are lots of compromises to be made. [/i]

    Im sorry to say this, but even the world in Flightsimulator 2002 looked more animated then your train does..

  83. Nuyan says:

    Since when do we have so many fools posting on RPS? This must be the worst comment-threads I’ve seen so far here.

    Tei. You first suggest to compare a friggin’ huge mainstream 100+ million budget small-scale FPS with a large-scale indie niche developer game and after that immensely stupid insulting comment you seriously try to lecture him?

    Christ..

    (I should’ve known better than to reply to it, my apologies.)

  84. dsmart says:

    @ Pepper

    Im sorry to say this, but even the world in Flightsimulator 2002 looked more animated then your train does..

    Yes, you should in fact be sorry that you said it; because it is yet another Apples to Oranges comparison has no merit or any basis in reality. At least to those of us who have probably played practically every single game in existence – more so flight sims

    Lets not get into the fact that every single MSFS looks like crap at low altitude, has very high DEM use etc. Puhleeze.

    Maybe you clearly missed the part where this terrain engine was designed to be used – and played – at any altitude. No, you couldn’t have possibly missed that.

    The difference between constructive criticism and taking potshots (aka taking the piss) is determined by one’s IQ and quite possibly one’s tolerance for pain and abuse – since one is not likely to be able to take what one give without some serious medication. Or crack. Or both.

  85. Tei says:

    @Nuyan: I was not comparing budget but textures. And both work on the same computer and have the same hardware available. Theres nothing CoD4 or any other engine use, that any other engine can’t use.

  86. pepper says:

    Dsmart, first you say your own engine is meant to look good at any altitude, then you say it wont matter how it looks when your up a little higher and flying fast, and have you even seen the newer FS engines? They definitely look a lot better then what you currently are showing. I also have tried about every possible flightsim out there, and i can see that most of them have done a excellent job at looking good from a low and high altitude whilst stretching immense regions. Just check the LOMAC series, it stretches over the whole crimea, with a immensely detailed and rich world. Ever heard of applying LOD maps to the terrain engine? It might actually make it look better.

  87. The Apologist says:

    Sorry, Helio. You did make the suggestion first. Your input is appreciated too – cheers. :)

  88. Josh says:

    Anywhere a discussion about Smart and his games occur, Smart himself is sure to show himself and further escalate the discussion, it is a function of Newton’s Third Law of Motion. Which, if you know what that is, will seem obvious to you now that someone has mentioned it. Oooooh! your mind will say to itself, or Duh!. And then you’ll smile and all will be as it should.

  89. Heliocentric says:

    @Apologist
    Its okay you dont have to appol-…. Oh… Apologist… Right, you do have to. Thats so insensitive of me.

  90. pepper says:

    Helio, you insensitive clod!( I have been wanting to use that for a while already, thanks!)

    Josh, interesting.

  91. Heliocentric says:

    I’m sorry pepper your whole life must feel so sorry from now on like you are living in the shadow of what you could have been but time was taken from you before you were ready and you ever never given the chance you could have taken had you just been given the chance and now the shadows of depression hang over you and you look to the wall the same wall it always is and then suddenly you realise you must act…

  92. pepper says:

    god…why…. please… let me wheep in this little corner over here..

    *weeps*

  93. Shh, Don't mention... says:

    I like this thread much better now that it’s derailed itself into the far-less-combative brand of cheerful insanity that RPS usually enjoys from its loyal fanbase. We should ignore topics more often….

  94. Gap Gen says:

    Derek: I’d be interested in expanding on the example of Operation Flashpoint / Armed Assault. As I understand it, the games look similar in scope but ArmA is visually more interesting.

    Part of the problem, I feel, is that the video is confusing – there are vectors everywhere and it’s difficult to tell who is firing at what, plus the blocky HUD does look like a 1990s flight sim. Using the example of ArmA again, the simulation is detailed and realistic, yet the HUD is uncluttered. I’m all for detailed, expansive games but as an advert, I’m not sure the videos work that well, especially alongside videos for other expansive combat games like ArmA 2 and OpFap 2. I’d be interested to see a more structured video release, though.

  95. dsmart says:

    @ Gap Gen

    Indeed. But the reason that ArmA assault HUD is uncluttered is because they don’t have anything remotely resembling the avionics, target acquisition and weapons logic that we have. Specifically – and I say this again – the dynamics and avionics (even the interface) for my assets are all unique and different. To wit: flying a fighter and doing target acquisition and prosecution with a variety of launch delivery systems is far more advanced and detailed than firing a TOW-like rocket from a vehicle or even a gunship.

    So, the more advanced the avionics and weapons delivery system, the more information required in the HUD interface. Every flight sim grognard knows this.

    Please take a look at the multitude of shots over here and you will see interfaces for infantry (recently revamped and completed), vehicles, gunships, fighters etc. They’re all different and only the fighters (and possibly the gunships) have more stuff than usual – due to the high end nature of the assets.

    If I wanted to go the ArmaA, Frontlines or similar route, I’d have done so. Thats not the game I designed and set out to develop. I wanted a game in which playing as infantry, a flight jock of a vehicle driving hobo felt different and gave a different playing experience. My guess is that all the BF junkies who are likely to bum rush a fighter sitting on a launch pad, are unlikely to do it in my game because, well, first you need to learn how to fucking fly the darn thing. If you want to be bunny jumping you ass off, stay in infantry mode – the most brain dead aspect of the game. Even running around in a vehicle – without a team providing support – is only going to get you killed real quick.

    In my game, when you set out to use (or build) a fighter, gunship or vehicle, you’d best know wtf you’re doing – or don’t do it. A really good fps player packing a jetpack and rocket launcher is just as effective as a flight jock doing Mach 1 at NOE altitudes and hoping he gets a lock signature on the target before the rocket even gets airborne – because once that happens, you’ll be busy dodging that and delaying the inevitable respawn that is sure to come. Unless of course you bail out first. In which case, you either trek it all the way back to base and find yourself another fighter or trigger your SOS emitter and hope that a teammater with access to a gunship or vehicle – depending on how far you are – can come get you. Each time you spawn after dying, you lose Experience Points – the key to promotion, access to high end assets, weapons – and the ability to build any damn thing the game can offer.

    No, videos don’t tell the full story. Thats what demos are for. :)

    As to who is shooting who in the video, I thought it was mighty obvious that good guys shoot at bad guys and vice versa. In this case, as the video says, I was inbound to an enemy base – with my team – and of course the bastards open fired. I manually switched to various assets (e.g. SAM and SAL silos) to show what they were doing.

  96. Will says:

    @Derek

    I’m interested to know what kind of detail your avionics simulation goes into as regards target selection – that’s something that was very well served in some of the Janes titles but I haven’t seen in detail elsewhere.

    Can you describe the process (as a player story) required for a pilot to target e.g. a tank, lock it up, and fire a missile at it?

  97. j39hsieh says:

    That shot of your media room is eyeopening. MAN a lot of stuff I played/wanted to play. So many flight sims,sci-fi, and strategy games!!!

    I actually want to try out this new game. I’ll prob have a go at the tech demo once its out, though it doesn’t look like my laptop can handle it.

    I think the big hurdle that I personally have to face in playing games like this is that there is defenitely a jump that’s required before I am going to have fun. Plenty of reading/trial-n-error before I can start pkaying. Not saying this process can’t be entertaining, but it can sometimes degenerate into frustration without end.

    This game looks like it already has a firm vision that is defenitely apart from other games I know of (seems to be a hard-core realistic sci-fi battlefield) and I think that some extra seat padding, so to speak, for gamers to ease them in for the long flights/fights they’re going to have will help immensely not only for people just jumping in.

    Stuff like, oh screen shake when accelerating, some slight horizontal/vertical movement when hovering, in general extra feedback from player input.

    Heat blur effect already looks pretty cool and the design of the planes and vehicles looked great! Hope to see this finished and ready this March.

  98. dsmart says:

    @ Will

    I’m interested to know what kind of detail your avionics simulation goes into as regards target selection – that’s something that was very well served in some of the Janes titles but I haven’t seen in detail elsewhere.

    Can you describe the process (as a player story) required for a pilot to target e.g. a tank, lock it up, and fire a missile at it?

    It is nowhere as detailed as the Jane’s games. Not even close. After all, this is a different kind of game entirely.

    It also not as simple as point and shoot, but you still have to select a target, choose the right missile, wait for a lock and optimal launch solution, then fire. Miss anything and you might as well be wasting ordnance. Things like target range, closure rate, aspect ratio, missile burn rate, missile dynamics (does it have a nose camera or not?) etc all come into play. e.g. in this latest video, if you look closely, you will see the process involved with launch various types of missiles – I even missed in some instances – including some with video guided targeting.

    @j39hsieh

    Indeed. This is the barrier that I am trying to balance with the game, while at the same time not dumbing it down to the point of it being just another fps game with player controlled assets. Where’s the fun in that? And why would a gamer buy it, when he’s got tons of other games just like it to choose from?

    I have screen shake when hit by weapons fire already. I think its in the video.

    There is already movement variation when hovering.

    There are lots and lots of subtle things in the game, including realistic weather patterns, a very detailed atmospheric (HDR enabled) system, dynamic time of day (start playing in the day and before long, it is dead of night), night vision rendering etc etc

    My goal is to make the fps infantry gamers up and running in under five mins (something I’ve achieved and tested with my guys).

    Using vehicles might take a few tries to master since you’re not going to be pressing W and careening forwards are breakneak speeds, while trying to turn on a dime.

    Other things like jetpack use, deployables (there are many items to deploy and use), ability to build things (with enough EP), effectively flying a gunship, let alone a fighter – are all going to take practice. But any flight jock will feel right at home the minute they hope into a fighter or gunship. If they have no interest in fps gameplay, they never have to go beyond walking over to an asset and taking off.

    Anyway, we’ll see how it comes across when the tech test is out. I may not do a demo because of the way the game is designed, doing a demo is no different from giving away the full game. Even a timed demo is going to be pointless because it could never be long enough to show the full experience for such a huge game.

    Right now my GREATEST challenge is balancing indoors and outdoors. We simply can’t do indoor areas for all the structures, so a lot of trimming is going. In fact, just the other day I had to increase the armor on the barracks building because all it took were to STS-Hyperdyne missiles to destroy it. Imagine what would happen in multiplayer if a bunch of players are screwing around inside….the some jock comes along with a pair of missiles. Its game over, tons of re-spawn and the requisite swearing.

    Everything in the game world an be destroyed. So essentially, multiplayer is going to be mayhem beyond belief. And since the game engine can rebuild everything over time – though gamers can manually repair/rebuild things if they want it done quicker – at various points in the game, a base could be nothing more than rubble and burning buildings.

  99. pepper says:

    Derek, your game has potential, but please get yourself a uptodate modelling staf, for these models really arent of this era anymore.

  100. SpacePirateCal says:

    (Last off-topic post on this thread, I promise)

    @will: Been playing I-War 2 – managed to somehow become an ace pilot with keys only. Wotta fabulous game! I’m just into the main game proper, been to prison and stuff and am now kitted out with a genuine pirate crew (one of them even said “Arr”), and am having an absolute BLAST. This game is bloody brilliant! I salute you, sir, and all who crafted this with you! I’m one happy little space cadet!

  101. Jesucristo says:

    Ahh, I-War 2, I dream with a game who makes me forget that incredible game.

    Mr. Derek… your game, what about multiplayer?. Is there multicrew and cooperative?. I mean multicrew like Armed Assault, OFP…

  102. Gap Gen says:

    “No, videos don’t tell the full story. Thats what demos are for. :)”

    Good heavens, I wasn’t implying that videos are accurate. Videos are solely marketing (as are demos). A good trailer will make you want to buy a game, and become fired up by it prior to release. This was partly why I questioned whether releasing 17 minutes of raw gameplay footage was a good idea or not in terms of increasing your market (which is what selling games is about, after all).

    Then again, tastes differ – for example, I usually hate developer commentary in trailers, whereas some people find it insightful.

  103. Seymore Butts says:

    Derek, whatever happened to your planned Xbox 360 game?

  104. dsmart says:

    @ Jesucristo

    Mr. Derek… your game, what about multiplayer?. Is there multicrew and cooperative?.

    There is multiplayer with four different game modes.

    There is also 2 to 4 four player co-op for the single player campaign.

    And yes, there is multi-crew in both multiplayer and single player.

    e.g. in multiplayer, most assets have up to 16 passengers, a driver, gunner positions etc. So e.g. a pilot player (with the required XP) can hop into an assault gunship, while other players (pilots, marines etc) can “attach” to #gunner or #passenger positions in the same gunship. While the designated pilot is flying en-route to a strike area – littered with SAM (Surface to Air Missiles) and SAL (Surface to Air Laser guns), the gunners can be firing at air/ground targets; while the passengers just keep praying that the bastard actually makes the ten mins or so flight to the strike zone without getting them all killed. Of course if you have a jetpack and he does get shot badly – you can detach from your position and eject before the craft starts its death spiral to the ground. If you don’t have a jetpack, you’re fucked because you can either jump and hope you only break a leg (your armor protects you) from a jump from 5K AGL or you leave a mark on the terrain – and respawn.

    Same thing in single player but your three NPC squad mates are smart enough to follow you into any asset (any with gunner or passenger positions) that you enter. So if you enter a vehicle as the #driver, one NPC will take a #gunner (if available) position, while the other two take up #passenger positions.

    My upcoming ground combat movie shows all of this in action, since it focues on the ground combat aspects of the game, similar to how this latest movie focused on air combat.

    As I said before, this is not your grand daddy’s fps game – and anyone expecting any thing North of braindead in this game, truly hasn’t played any of my games.

  105. Jesucristo says:

    Thanks for the info

    I don’t like brainless games, that’s one of the reasons I don’t like consoles.
    Nice you included all of these options for multiplayer. I hope the game be far better than Universal Combat.

    Good luck

  106. dsmart says:

    It is hard to find a balance between brainless games and functionally viable games.

    My biggest mistake occured many years ago with my first game. It is no big secret (it has been covered in many industy publications) that I wanted to roll everything that I liked about space combat games, into my first game. The ill-fated original (which, to do this day can be found in most top download charts) Battlecruiser game ended up being what it was simply because I was too ambitious. Couple that with a trigger finger publisher (Take 2, who went on to be who they are today – with everyone forgetting that my first game was actually one of those in their original SEC filing and did generate quite a sum for them.) – and you have a recipe for disaster.

    But once I just ignored everyone and stuck to my vision and did what I wanted to do, it was easy from that point on.

    My goal has always been to nurture – and reward – those like-minded gamers who stuck with my team and I through those difficult years. This is the reason why I continued with the Battlecruiser/Universal Combat series and never strayed from the original vision regardless of the [un-founded] abuse I’ve taken.

    In an industry where many – MANY – big names have literally pissed away other people’s (publishers, investors, VC etc) money, crashed and burned – in some cases disappeared – it is only my money that I’ve burned. Never taking advances that I couldn’t pay back. I do what I say I can. Hence the reason you will never – ever – see anything posted about my company or myself related to the usual financial publisher shenanigans. In fact, in my entire history, I have never – ever – taken publisher advances at any time before my game hits a playable Alpha state. And even then, my deals are carefully structured so that advances are recouped earlier on so as not to leave me indebted to anyone at any time. It is is this philosophy that allows me to release all my games for free once the rights expire. I have done this with all my games thus far, and yet another [legacy] one will be released later this year for free.

    Even with times changing and when the going gets tough and everyone changing the direction, my goal remains to design and develop games that a select group of people want to play. Some people get it from one perspective or another.

    At the end of the day, this is not rocket science. People who have the ability to do what they love and believe in, will do just that – regardless of what obstacles or challenges they might face. I could have given up the ghost a long time ago, sought a job in the industry and *gasp* working for someone else. Or better yet, gone back to IT consulting work and getting a regular [obscenely large] paycheck. But what would be the fun in that? To go bouncing from gig to gig when uppper management screws up and subsequently gives me a pink slip (and severance pay that won’t even see my through Winter) for my troubles? Then how would I get to make the games that I want to make and play? In my spare time? With XNA, Linux, a browser?

    The math of what I do is very simple and straightforward. It goes something like this:

    Find 10 people who are going to pay for your game. If 10 of them end up paying you $10 a pop, go make a game in which you spend no more than $50 on. Be certain to make a game that at least 8 of those 10 people will buy again down the road. Rinse. Repeat.

    Along the way, I have been fortunate that more people buy my games than I planned. So, I get to make those games for those like minded people because they keep me in business. I don’t give a toss about anyone else.

    With AAW, I am straying a bit from the [game] formula because I want to evolve my ideas into other areas due to gaming trends (e.g. space combat sims are all but dead for now). Anyone reading about this [AAW] game and who will eventually play the Beta, will immediately see my fingerprint all over it. While not as complex as “A Battlecruiser game”, it is still not your average brainless game. In short, it is – first and foremost – a thinking man’s fps. There are enough brainless fps games out there filling that bill. Why on Earth would I want to compete with that when I can stick to what I can do and with what I have? Isn’t that why most games that try to compete in the same space, fail? Spectacularly? Quick! Name one innovative – or fun – thing in any recent memory fps that hasn’t already been done to death.

    In the end, even if not all my core gamers buy AAW, we don’t have a lot to worry about because come 2011 or thereabouts, my biggest feat yet is coming. That being my epic all-encompassing space combat MMO (was in production, but halted in order to do AAW and KnightBlade and shore up our finances for that long haul) in the vein of my previous space combat games. Once again, it will be developed for those who like my games and who want to keep supporting it for the same reason that I upgrade my games consistently and for free.

    Are we going to compete with the likes of Jumpgate, Eve, Star Trek Online? Probably not. But in the game space, what exactly is competition? While Eve is a spreadsheet in space, Jumpgate just a deliusional reboot and the jury being out on STO, the only thing we’re competing with is our ability to stick to our original vision for the game. Space combat? Check! Planetary combat? Check! Seamless spaceplanet transitional gameplay? Check! Cap ships? Check! fps action? Check! vehicular action? Check! Grind? Absolutely not.

    …and the best part? We’ve done this ALL before – many times over in fact. Since the experience is already there, now we’re doing it on a much larger scale. In fact, my guess is that Galactic Command Online will be my very last game. That has been the plan all along. I started with the space combat genre and I intend to end my career with it.

    Some have accused me of making the same game over and over. To them I say: take a look around at the games you’ve been playing.

  107. Adam says:

    “Indeed. But the reason that ArmA assault HUD is uncluttered is because they don’t have anything remotely resembling the avionics, target acquisition and weapons logic that we have. Specifically – and I say this again – the dynamics and avionics (even the interface) for my assets are all unique and different.

    Why don’t you just lease someone else’s engine. LOMAC (Lockon: Modern Air Combat) is in your media room and has realistic flight, weapons and ballistics because it was Russia’s combat flight simulator and Eagle Dynamics bought it when Russia collapsed. This engine will do what you want as a flight simulator, weapons engine and graphic tools. Just throw in the towel on maintaining your engine even though there is a lot of pride and ownership in it gamers would like to play your games.

    The time it takes for you to keep your engine up to date and make a game are too much. If you were a John Carmack then you would have 100+ people working on your game while you tweak the engine but your not. Lease someone else’s engine, put the pride aside for one game and make the dream come true for your fans.

    You are definitely good at what you do and have a lot of respect even though negativity comes out in these posts. Look at the time and what you are actually producing because the product is not enough for the time invested. I bought the first BC and had problems but I played it. It was a marvel concept that still hasnt seen its potential. But, by focusing on your game and not your engine (lease someone’s engine) then your game will progress greatly. It is a serious matter to look at your competition and consider people value good looking games on affordable systems. We still want the galaxy at our fingertips and long for depth but not if it is hard to play or appears to be out dated. Overcome these challenges and just lease an engine. Sure it cost money and its not “yours” but there is nothing wrong with doing this for ONE game.

  108. Heliocentric says:

    A great painter doesnt make his own brushes, in all likeliness he doesnt make his own paint either.

    A master carpenter doesnt have to grow his own trees.

    You see where I’m going with this… but you didnt type it!

  109. dsmart says:

    Topic necromancy. Anyway, a new deb blog with links to new shots and recent Avault podcast answering a bunch of questions is now up.

  110. dsmart says:

    whoa!! This is back on the….the…front page.

    OK, did you guys check out the latest movie? And?

  111. Serondal says:

    Hey Supreme Commander, what is up with the change in naming convention? We go from Battlecruiser 3000AD and things spun from that (BC:M ect) To Universal Combat and now All Aspect Warfare which means something very similiar. Was this your idea or did someone else come up with it? I’m not saying it is bad, I just find the naming of a game as interesting as anything else sometimes as it can have a big effect on sales : )

    Is your next game could to be called “Literally Every Way Possible To Kill Someone Else Conflict”

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