By John Walker on June 1st, 2009 at 7:21 pm.
New game, new locations, new characters, new weapons, new monsters: John has been to Valve and dragged back the news. [Click on images for full size]
Left 4 Dead who now? No one was expecting Valve’s next game to be a sequel to 2008′s awesome co-op zombie shooter, Left 4 Dead. To answer your immediate question: Yes, this is a completely new game, with new characters, in a new location, with new zombies, new weapons, new twists, and an improved Director, in five completely new campaigns set in the Southern United States. This isn’t more maps for the previous game, it’s a brand new game, and it’s due this November. We snuck into Valve HQ ahead of Monday’s announcement and played a full campaign, and at first glance much appears to have evolved.
It’s still Left 4 Dead: Valve have more sense than to change anything that made the first game so splendid. Rather the focus on L4D2 appears to have been the desire by everyone involved in the first game to make something bigger and better. Coming off the back of the project, we were told by various Valve developers, people we bursting with ideas of where to take the game next. So they went right there.
Left 4 Dead 2 takes place in the South of the USA, beginning in Savannah, eventually reaching New Orleans. There’s four new characters to play, each with back-stories to be hinted at in their conversations. Coach is a high school football coach from the Savannah area, used to leading the kids, comfortable in his life, and perhaps not enamoured by the arrival of a zombie attack. There’s Rochelle, from Cleveland originally, working for a cable news network. She’s producing a segment on this strange story occurring in Savannah, and gets caught up in the events. Ellis is a Southern boy mechanic, an enthusiastic but smart guy with a “Southern flair”. Finally there’s Nick, a gambler and a conman, unsure of his company and cynical about the events.
The plan for the five new campaigns is to bring them together more coherently, so you can more obviously see how the events of one lead to the beginning of the next. Nothing that will enormously impact on jumping right in to a game in a particular stage, but giving a stronger narrative logic to the complete game. And with that, the new cast will also develop their personalities as things progress. Coach looks set to gain bravery as he gets closer to New Orleans, while Nick’s attitude to the others may soften. This will be born out in a more elaborate and involved collection of dialogue barks, once more primarily away from the player’s control. Perhaps one of the most endearing aspects of L4D was the characters’ surprisingly apt and timely remarks about the events, and occasional exchanges. This is to be expanded upon, with many more back-and-forth moments of chatter appropriate to the events happening around you.
Beyond the new cast, nothing else from L4D is being replaced, but rather added to or expanded upon. So the Special Infected we’re already familiar with will appear, joined by a new collection. Of these only one has been revealed so far, The Charger. Looking like a crossbreed between a Tank and a Common Infected (what an unholy union that would be) the beast has one giant mutated arm, which he uses to shoulder-charge the Survivors. He knocks you down, but doesn’t incapacitate you. Rather you’re off balance for a moment. As happened to us as we played with Valve designers, he’s capable of taking out many of you in a single charge, sending us flying like bowling pins. However, should he charge someone on their own, rather than running to hide after, instead he might pick you up with his giant arm and repeatedly smash you face-first into the ground until a teammate comes to rescue you.
While other Specials aren’t yet shown, we have seen some changes to the familiar. Rather cutely, some of the Common Infected have been changed while in hazmat suits. This means laying down walls of Molotov cocktail fire won’t keep everyone away any more, as the fire-proof baddies can run right through. The pay-off for this is exploding their heads and seeing the goo splat against the inside of the perspex visor.
But perhaps most exciting is the Wandering Witch. Another new feature of L4D2 is setting some of the campaigns in the daylight. The campaign we played was such, and it’s oddly frightening to see it all happening while the sun shines. Making our way through the sprawling streets of New Orleans, desperately trying to reach a distant bridge at the other end of which was lay an apparent helicopter rescue, the only time we needed our torches was when making our way through buildings. And it seems in the daytime, the Witch has a bit more pep. Rather than sitting crouched, sobbing, singing, now this most terrifying of gaming enemies methodically paces around, wandering where she sees fit, although still apparently zoned out. She may be on foot, but she’s no more interested in being disturbed. This adds in a whole new aspect to Witch evasion. No longer can you simply take the long way around where she’s squatted. Instead, she may well be walking exactly where you’re headed. Or worse, walking up behind you, singing her haunting song, suddenly infuriated by you when you swing around in terror.
The Witch’s capacity to create anecdotes seems only more powerful now. Sitting down to grab some food with a collection of Valve, stories about their most frightening or plain inconvenient Wandering Witch stories flow freely, each explained in animated terms.
Of the new weapons, perhaps the most exciting reveal are the melee tools. So far we’ve seen the axe and the frying pan. Yes, the frying pan. Feeling like a sneaky bit of TF2 in the game, it’s the perfect comedy weapon, that somehow doesn’t feel irreverent in a way inappropriate to L4D’s more sullen world. Complete with a fantastic KWAPANG noise, it’s extraordinarily effective to bat your way through crowds, and can even be used to knock a Hunter off a pinned Survivor. There’s also a baseball bat, which didn’t appear in the campaign we saw, which we assume will be a little less bonky than TF2′s Scout’s. And the chainsaw, which again we haven’t played with, but hell: there’s going to be a chainsaw. The axe can’t go unexplained either. It’s utterly brutal, and shows off the Infected’s newly regioned vulnerability. Swing it low and you can slice off a zombie’s legs, letting them collapse horribly to the ground, bleeding out of their fresh stumps. Or maybe swipe off either arm. Or most horrendously of all, remove a face.
This same gore is achievable with all the weapons, with new ragdoll deaths for the throngs, to make their entrail-spilling, armpit-dribbling, face-exploding ways all the more entertaining. There were many gasps and cries of “OH GOOD GRIEF!” as we played, the strings of guts slopping wildly into the air, or as mentioned above, the faceless leaking mess suddenly bursting like a blood-filled balloon as the Infected fell to the floor. It’s awesome.
There’s a new shotgun, a new semi-automatic, and a brand new sniper rifle. This last one feels dramatically out of place in a game where you can’t stand still, but it seems extremely likely that this will be the weapon that will be used most skilfully. Obviously powerful, it’s a very useful tool when you find yourself in one of the new “gauntlet” moments.
Gauntlets are one of the new elements that will occur, as one of many moves to attempt to make L4D2 a more consistently thrilling experience. In the final moments of the campaign, finally reaching the bridge, we had to cross it. At the other end lay the potential of rescue. But it was one long, straight, inescapable path down which the Director was able to screw with us as much as ‘he’ liked. Standing still was never and option, but trying to stay high, jumping from roof to roof of the vans and cars, very much was. Someone sniping from the back here proves helpful, while a couple of at the front wielding axes or frying pans was equally effective. These make for interesting moments, an almost unrelenting onslaught from in front, but the peculiar safety of knowing that nothing you didn’t let get past you would be attacking from behind.
Another very smart change is to prevent sneaky players from trying to sit out the triggered events. In those moments in L4D where you had to press a button that began a frantic attack until an elevator arrived, or a door opened, it seems too many were crouching in a corner together and waiting for it to all die down. L4D2 has plans to prevent such treachery. Now some of the events you start can only be stopped by reaching a further target. In an extremely tense sequence, we had to make our way through a labyrinth of alarmed cars to reach a distant point that would finally see the attack fade. Trying desperately to avoid hitting any of the cars, and thus making the situation far worse, while having to make constant forward progress, amped things up significantly.
The Director even has discretion over the layout of certain sections of levels. In New Orleans we reached a graveyard that is different each time you play. As Valve explained to us, if the Director gives you a pretty straight route right through it, it’s an insult to how poorly you’ve been playing that the omnipotent AI thought it needed to make things a little easier for you. If you’ve won his robotic respect, then it’ll be a far more convoluted journey.
While there’s no intention to waste players’ time with dead ends, there is a greater emphasis on rewarding exploration. You may well learn the correct route through most of a level, but heading off down a longer pathway, or going to check out an out of the way room, is more likely to be beneficial. The Director is, we’re told, going to be far smarter this time about placing items, and the selection of these has expanded as well. Which includes the incendiary ammo.
Oh, what a pleasure it is to find these beauties. Like an ammo stash, incendiary bullets can be picked up from tables, etc, and will give you a clip of ammo for your current weapon that will set absolutely everything it hits on fire. Which is spectacular. Right up until you accidentally set a Charger alight and he comes bounding toward you to share it.
Everything seems bigger and better. And this includes the number of Infected to kill. The average number taken down in a campaign in the first game was around 1000. In our play through one of the sequel’s five new chapters we clocked up around 1700.
Due November 17th this year, it’s quite remarkable that it’s so far on already. And frankly, that of all developers Valve have made something this quickly is almost dizzying. While there’s obviously going to be something of a fuss made over people’s expectations that L4D would be constantly expanded for free, following the TF2 model, it’s important to stress that while this is obviously still the same L4D core experience, it’s certainly not a bunch of new maps thrown into the old game. It’s a coherent new imagining of the game, this time bigger, smarter, and far more elaborate. Oh, and gloriously more gory.
To find out even more details, be sure to listen to our world exclusive developer interview with project lead, Chet Faliszek, in the latest podcast.
PRESS RELEASE
VALVE ANNOUNCES LEFT 4 DEAD 2
Sequel to Best-Selling Co-op Thriller Coming This Holiday
June 1, 2009 – Valve, creators of best-selling game franchises (such as Half-Life and Counter-Strike) and leading technologies (such as Steam and Source), today announced Left 4 Dead 2 (L4D2), the sequel to the best-selling and critically-acclaimed co-operative multiplayer thriller.
Coming exclusively to Xbox 360 and PC, L4D2 promises to set a new benchmark for co-operative action games and become one of 2009′s marquee titles.
“A large part of how Left 4 Dead became 2008′s top-selling new IP on Xbox 360 and the PC was the custom-tailored gameplay made possible by the AI Director,” said Gabe Newell, president and co-founder of Valve. “With the knowledge gained from creating the original, new technology, and a passionate team, L4D2 will set a new benchmark for cooperative action games.”
Set for release on November 17, the title adds melee combat to enable deeper co-operative gameplay, with items such as a chainsaw, frying pan, axe, baseball bat, and more.
Introducing the AI Director 2.0, L4D’s dynamic gameplay is taken to the next level by giving the Director the ability to procedurally change weather effects, world objects, and pathways in addition to tailoring the enemy population, effects, and sounds to match the players’ performance. The result is a unique game session custom fitted to provide a satisfying and uniquely challenging experience each time the game is played.
Featuring new Survivors, boss zombies, weapons, and items, Left 4 Dead 2 offers a much larger game than the original with more co-operative campaigns, more Versus campaigns, and maps for Survival mode available at launch.
Supported by a $10+ million marketing campaign, Left 4 Dead has sold over 2.5 million retail copies since it was released in November of 2008. Left 4 Dead 2 is targeted for release on Xbox 360 and the PC on November 17, 2009, and will be launched worldwide with a multi-million dollar marketing campaign across TV, Outdoor, and Online.
“Left 4 Dead was backed by our most aggressive advertising campaign to date, and resulted in a top 5 showing on two platforms during holiday 2008,” said Doug Lombardi, VP of marketing at Valve. “Left 4 Dead 2 is a larger game and will be supported with even more consumer and retail advertising programs than the original.”
Left 4 Dead 2 will be featured as the cover story on PC Gamer and Official Xbox Magazines this month. For more information, please visit www.l4d.com
01/06/2009 at 19:23 yxxxx says:
ohh you and your sneaky previews.
01/06/2009 at 19:24 FernandoDANTE says:
Just saw this at the MS E3 Press Conference, and FUCK YEAH!!!!
01/06/2009 at 19:25 Vanderdecken says:
Oh. Em. Eff. Gee. History is unfolding… but only a year after the first game in the IP? Interesting move… doesn’t give the original much shelf life, people will forget about it and move on to this. I hope Valve does its best to keep the original alive, and not supersede it completely. These comments WILL be interesting.
01/06/2009 at 19:25 D2M says:
Sounds awesome, looking forward to reading more about it over the coming months!
01/06/2009 at 19:26 Stupoider says:
Err, why so early? ._.
01/06/2009 at 19:26 Ikuu says:
If this isn’t some sort of ‘expansion’ and is a full price game, then sorry Valve but I ain’t buying it. The amount of content that shipped with L4D was pretty low, and still the SDK isn’t fully finished and you want to pump out a sequel?
01/06/2009 at 19:26 benjamin says:
Hey awesome, they announce L4D #2 before creating any new campaigns for the game that’s already out. Thanks Valve…
So really they should have called the original Left 4 Dead “Left 4 Dead: The Tech Preview” and now we’re getting the full thing. This is a pretty dick move, and uncharacteristic of Valve.
I know some smartass is going to come here, gloat and use the tired argument “You were okay with paying $50 for the game as it shipped, why so bitter?” Bull. Valve built themselves on a tradition of offering a large number of expansions to their original games through the game’s lifetime. To announce that they’re spending development time on a completely new game to supplant one that came out only a year ago is a goddamn smack in the face.
We were all happy when we learned that HL2:EP2, TF2, Portal and L4D were coming out in rapid succession. Looking at this, I’m starting to think I miss the old, slow Valve.
>Valve have made something this quickly is almost dizzying
Don’t let the wool be pulled over your eyes. The content that’s here is clearly stuff that they’d been kicking around with the intention of adding it to base L4D, then someone (a middle manager or accountant, undoubtedly) wandered by and thought aloud ‘I wonder how we can monitize this.’
01/06/2009 at 19:31 Dave says:
Not 2Dead 2Furious?
I haven’t been playing L4D nearly as much as TF2, but they got me at chainsaw.
01/06/2009 at 19:31 CMaster says:
Hmm, I AM dissapointed about them not continuing to update L4D TF2 style, especially as it still costs more and they haven’t properly integrated player-made maps.
The fact that it was so quick almost suggests that this was planned from the start and it all feels a little well, manipulative and all.
Still, L4D was great, as were the character interactions.
01/06/2009 at 19:32 A Dead Eldar Guardian says:
Wow…I am incredibly disappointed. No Episode 3 but rather a full price sequel to an unfinished game that lost it’s fun after a month.
01/06/2009 at 19:32 Linfosoma says:
I agree with benjamin.
L4D, while great as it is, still has a ton of bugs and exploits.
I will not buy this game until there’s some sort half price weekend deal or something like that.
Too bad to see Valve go the EA way, I wonder if they’ll start charging for the Steam subscriptions now too.
01/06/2009 at 19:33 Smurfy says:
I lolled… then I wondered…
01/06/2009 at 19:34 Citizen Parker says:
Yikes, that neon yellow and cyan shirt is ghastly. I will always pick that character so I don’t have to look at him.
Perhaps they will feature unlockable costumes, ala Resident Evil. Nothing was better than slaying zombies while dressed up for clubbing.
01/06/2009 at 19:34 subedii says:
I honestly never expected this after just one year. What does this mean for Left 4 Dead then? I mean are they still going to support that or is it obsolete now? I’m guessing it’s not going to see the same kind of support that TF2 did now.
Seriously, this is probably going to be the biggest curveball to come out of E3 for me, bigger than the MI remake even. Valve usually take years to develop anything, and this sequel is coming out after just a year. Mind. Blown.
01/06/2009 at 19:35 EBass says:
f this isn’t some sort of ‘expansion’ and is a full price game, then sorry Valve but I ain’t buying it. The amount of content that shipped with L4D was pretty low, and still the SDK isn’t fully finished and you want to pump out a sequel?
+1, L4D shipped with a quarter of the game missing (two versus campaigns), this has just been rectified, the SDK isn’t out and we’re getting a “sequal” which isn’t just a glorified expansion pack. Its going to be the same again with a few needed tweaks. But they are perfectly capable of putting those tweaks into vanilla L4D.
01/06/2009 at 19:36 Geram says:
That sounds utterly TERRIBLE. Frying pans? This is supposed to be a horror game, not TF2 (not that I have anything against TF2, but it’s out of place here). The lighting is rubbish, character models…what can I say? Eurgh. Hazmats? That completely takes the fun out of burning stuff. Light maps completely removes the tension. There’s a reason most zombie films and games are made at night.
01/06/2009 at 19:36 James G says:
Just caught this in PCG UK’s twitter feed, front cover of the next issue. http://twitpic.com/6ewom
Bit of a surprise I must admit, I had expected we’d at least be hearing a bit more about episode 3 next. The quick release of L4D2 is certainly removed from usual ‘Valve time.’
01/06/2009 at 19:39 Cooper says:
I loved what I’ve played of L4D. Unfortunately, the ‘match-making’ service has meant I hardly touch it anymore.
Getting into a game to find my traffic-light latency is almost always red due to the not-very-clever server selection process is infuriating. Lack of easy drop-in also means vs servers end up empty too quickly (sometimes straight after the first team switch as all the infected-only-players bugger off).
As such, I’m not sure I can justify buying more L4D unless I know that getting into an online game is gonna be painless.
01/06/2009 at 19:40 benjamin says:
You know what? I take back everything I’d said above.
Frying pans?
Being set in the South?
Daytime campaigns?
The goofy wardrobe featured in the screenshot above?
This is an elaborate troll by Valve. Well played, Valve, well played.
01/06/2009 at 19:44 chesh says:
Episode 3 will clearly never be released.
01/06/2009 at 19:44 Lorc says:
I guess L4D just wasn’t successful enough to give us the updates for free.
01/06/2009 at 19:46 Markoff Chaney says:
Confused. Happy. Expectant. Leery. Hesitant.
Hrmm. Odd move indeed from the champions of free content and long term support for online game modes. Count me in the “I’ll wait until it’s cheap (and patched)” camp this time around, unlike my L4D purchase was. Last time around, I believed in Valve’s ability to continually patch and polish to support a game for years. Now it looks like Valve caught the yearly iteration bug (at least for some of their cash cows) and I can now expect to pay for the things I used to get as free content patches for the game I paid for the first time. Certainly that is within their rights as a content producer to charge me. I, as a consumer of said content, am within my rights to withhold or abstain altogether my purchase.
01/06/2009 at 19:47 Nayon says:
L4D was a very incomplete game and many people bought it with the expectation that Valve would provide support for it for a long time, since everyone trusted them for quality. This is a huge bitch move, Valve. Thankfully I am not the only one who thinks like this.
01/06/2009 at 19:48 The Nitpicker who will destroy your dreams. (Also has a long name) says:
Guys, hold up a sec, your complaining about it being too early – the CoD franchise releases a sequel every year since the 2nd one. (There was a 3 year gap between Cod and cod 2, but only a one year gap for all the other ones)
And heck, those are great games. So Im confident valve will do well here. + its a change from the usual Ten year wait (See TF1-Tf2, and HF:2 Ep 2 to HF:2 ep 3…)
01/06/2009 at 19:50 Kevlmess says:
Guys, look, where exactly did it say Valve wouldn’t continue expanding and supporting the first game? I’m seeing alarming amounts of AIM-like sentiments here lately.
And I always thought Director was a she. Probably a sister of TF2′s Announcer.
Also, holy cripes on toast! Sounds very promising so far and, to me, seems to have more than enough new stuff in it to justify a whole new game. Assuming there’s a lot more features/weapons/special infected to be announced.
01/06/2009 at 19:50 Sabre says:
Et tu, Valve? Then fall, video game industry!
I’m not getting this. I spent their outrageous price for L4D in the first place, on the assumption that it would receive the traditional Valve treatment of long-term support and content, even though the initial content was lacking. We’re not even a year later and they’ve been developing an entirely new game and all that L4D has properly got is only one new map and a bunch remixes of the original maps? Sod that.
My respect for Valve has significantly decreased with this. L4D is still fresh, there is no need for a new game, only for new content to be made for the original; as there was with Counter-Strike Source, Day of Defeat Source and Team Fortress 2 on release. It is very unlike Valve to throw out a half-brained sequel this quick, though unfortunately it is very like other company who’s logo is involved with L4D.
No thank you Valve. Make L4D 1 a game fully worth the price charged for it first.
This had better be a joke and this is really just the next DLC for L4D 1, Valve can’t surely be serious with this.
01/06/2009 at 19:51 solipsistnation says:
Don’t you mean, um, Left2Dead?
01/06/2009 at 19:51 Ravenger says:
It seems valve haven’t learned from EA’s BF2 special forces fiasco, where releasing a new incompatible version of essentially the same game splits the community, making neither game a success.
Seems strange of them to spend so much time on L4D only to abandon it. It’d have been better to release this as an upgrade which incorporates the original game as well as the new content – in other words an expansion.
That way the matchmaking would be integrated and the community wouldn’t be split.
01/06/2009 at 19:53 Kadayi says:
Have to agree with few earlier posters that this is a bit of a cat amongst the pigeons given the previous game only came out last year (and a first for Valve given their track record). Personally given the insane amount of man hours of enjoyment I’ve wrung from L4D, unlike others I’m not going to begrudge them trying to make a living (its not like all those free TF2 updates haven’t cost Valve money), but I would hope that some of the new features are in some way retrofitted to the previous title, or at least they continue to support it with further content.
@Kevlmess
Oh yes AIM is definitely throwing the rattle out of the pram bigtime over this: -
‘What the guys who made that game I paid $50 and sunk over 200 manhours into playing, [i]aren’t[/i] going to give me an entirely new game for free? Fuck those tightwad fuckers!!!”
01/06/2009 at 19:53 Tworak says:
About… 4 years too soon. But I’ll be a good Valve-boy and buy.
01/06/2009 at 19:53 benjamin says:
>the CoD franchise releases a sequel every year
>those are great games.
Ho ho ho, hee hee hee, ha ha ha.
01/06/2009 at 19:56 Andy says:
I too am surprised at this move from Valve. The L4D updates have been scarce and few between, certainly nothing new has really come from it bar the survival mode which I’ve played once.
This time however I’ll be waiting a few months until a discount weekend on this one. I won’t be falling into the trap of pre-ordering it unless there’s a hefty discount. Mainly because I don’t feel the first one is worth the £35 I paid for it (before they brought in the £ prices).
Well, E3 isn’t over yet (not even begun has it?!) so we may hear news about their other game series yet…
01/06/2009 at 19:56 Captain Planet says:
Left 4 Dead was the only Valve game I regret buying. It’s short, boring, and is no where near supported enough (they STILL havent made the SDK work properly).
Wont be buying this unfortunately. Maybe if they integrate a good singleplayer into it, with a good story line and character development.
01/06/2009 at 19:56 jonfitt says:
Well this is both good and bad news. On the up side it looks like it’s going to be an awesome game, with lots of improvements on L4D1.
If this were a SP game I’d be over the moon.
The bad news is the timing and the fact that it’s a new game. With online MP games even if you only release map packs you splinter whatever community you have. With a whole new game you’re going to cannibalise the L4D1 player base in a gory and messy fashion.
Plus whether it’s fair or not, I do feel cheated about my investment in L4D1. As a pre-ordererer I paid full whack and have had to endure the sting of the subsequent sales while consoling myself that I’d be playing this for many years like TF2. Now it turns out I was just suckered in and should have waited for a sale.
Will not be pre-ordering again.
01/06/2009 at 19:58 Eli Just says:
BULLSHIT. This really blows. I paid $50 for the first game and it was fun, but we get 1 update and a new $50 game the next year?
01/06/2009 at 20:00 Rosti says:
Surely this announcement is a spy? Valve have been messing with my mind so much lately, I just don’t know what to think. Watching with interest.
01/06/2009 at 20:01 jonfitt says:
Oooh oooh ooh. I’ve got it!
It’s going to be part of Salmon-Pink Box complete with HL2:EP3 and Portal 2.
That’s the only way this would be great news.
01/06/2009 at 20:01 Flappybat says:
I was sure this was a troll for quite a long time.
I like the sound of some of it but it feels like they went a bit overboard in parts and I’m really not sure I like having to buy another game. TF2 was cheap, L4D was full price and the only extra we get for L4D was a fairly simple game mode and one truely new map? Sure survivor was nice but it was just a modified map with no end and a timer, not as involved as Payload and Arena for TF2.
01/06/2009 at 20:02 Sonic Goo says:
Count me in the too soon camp as well. I haven’t even started playing the first one!
01/06/2009 at 20:02 Steve says:
Really? No free updates for L4D? That’s a kick in the balls, Valve. Guess it didn’t sell well enough for them to bother with free updates.
Valve, I am disappoint.
01/06/2009 at 20:02 stncttr908 says:
Don’t like it? Don’t buy it! Fewer of you whiners to listen to in my headphones while I’m busy killing zombies and enjoying myself.
Also, who said it will be $50?
01/06/2009 at 20:03 dsmart says:
Not really. Obviously L4D made a fortune, so why not do it again instead of releasing it as Episode 3?
Frankly, I don’t see how this is any different from any other publisher releasing sequels. Obviously since people expect free stuff, they assumed that this would Episode 3 instead of L4D2. This is all about revenue and I don’t see anything wrong with that tbh.
01/06/2009 at 20:03 AlphaKoala says:
I’m still holding out that Valve will show Episode 3 at E3, however hopes are fading fast now…
01/06/2009 at 20:04 jalf says:
This definitely seems odd, and pretty un-valve.
And yes, it’s certain to piss off a lot of people who expected L4d to be kept updated by Valve.
@dsmart: Well, the problem is that unlike most other developers, Valve has been *very* outspoken about how they will always update their games to keep them fresh and attract new players, like they do with TF2. A lot of people bought L4D assuming that they actually meant that seriously, and were going to add content to L4D as well.
If they want people to believe that story next time, they’ve got some explaining to do.
01/06/2009 at 20:05 Latte says:
Okay haha very funny Valve. So when is HL2 Episode 3 coming out?
01/06/2009 at 20:06 Flappybat says:
I do mostly agree with you Derek, Valve are in the business of making games of course. I wonder if perhaps they have sabotaged themselves by being generous with other games.
01/06/2009 at 20:08 smoopy says:
Valve is 2 months late with the April fools
01/06/2009 at 20:09 grey_painter says:
Part of me is hoping this is an April Fool’s joke that got stuck in valve time for a couple of months.
Yes there are a lot of new features but they appear to be in the same engine and lots of little tweaks, the sort of stuff expansion packs were designed for. If they release this more as an expansion pack (or a standalone since they appear to be more popular recently) it will be incredible value for money. If its full game price it’ll sit on the virtual shop shelf until it dips significantly in price or in the mean time something really staggering gets revealed about the game.
In summary, I’m not mad just disappointed.
Edit: I’m not complaining about not getting free updates, I don’t have that much of a sense of entitlement. I just don’t like the idea that in the end I’ll be charged full price for content I would value more at an expansion pack level. I try not to buy games while factoring in the potential future updates that may or may not be released.
01/06/2009 at 20:11 stncttr908 says:
Also, who is to say Valve won’t offer L4D2 at a lower price to owners of the original? They have the power to do this through Steam, although I’m sure EA would have a thing or two to say about it.
01/06/2009 at 20:11 rocketman71 says:
Too soon, unless this comes bundled in some Blue Box or whatever with HL2 Ep3.
Will buy it anyway, damn you Valve!
01/06/2009 at 20:12 Walsh says:
It sounds like a combination of things to me.
Valve isn’t immune to the economic troubles, they have been releasing a lot of content for free and haven’t released many games, and their devs have a bunch of ideas for a new version of L4D.
For those knocking Valve on releasing a “half finished” L4D. Total up your hours playing it and compare it to another game. I know I’ve gotten plenty of value out of $40 for L4D! Especially compared to some of the $60 console games.
Hopefully it will be a standalone add-on in the same vein as the Company of Heroes expansions. I like merged installs.
01/06/2009 at 20:15 mist says:
Eh…
Pretty dissapointing really. TF2 is still getting free updates. I bought L4D at full price on Steam (even though it was cheaper in stores!) with the idea of “oh well, the content now may be a bit meager but I’ll support them since they’ll keep supporting the game…”
And then this :/
I really hope they’ll do a “SURPRISE! L4D2 is a free update!” after all the gaming press has done previews etc. (brings awesome publicity compared to “just” a patch), but that may be a bit too wishful thinking.
Also, the focus on how much money they spent/are going to spent on advertising in the press release is weird. Was the same before the L4D release; I got the feeling that the 10-million-dollar advertising campaign was supposed to be one of the highlights of the game or something.
01/06/2009 at 20:16 Rick says:
I agree with benjamin. It’s a troll or something. This is going to turn 180 and cause us to love valve again (or not, and hell hath no fury like a gamer scorned)
It looks like a mod, for cryin’ out loud (especially
this one is awful, and the first pic looks really, really fake too).
Those are not the production values we’ve come to know from valve. I call bullshit.
01/06/2009 at 20:17 Max says:
I definitely bought L4D with the idea that Valve would be expanding the somewhat meager content a la TF2. The survival mode is obviously a step in the right direction but I feel a bit cheated. L4D2 sounds fucking sweet but I don’t want to pay full price to get the content I was expecting for the first game.
01/06/2009 at 20:19 yns88 says:
The original game was overpriced for what it offered, and now they’re cutting the support short so early to release another $50 game? Sure, they might release maps between the two, but it still stands that you have to pay an extra $50 just for a couple new weapons and special infected.
01/06/2009 at 20:20 Stupoider says:
I’m going to wait for L4D4. Or L4²D. Yeah.
01/06/2009 at 20:23 Fumarole says:
I laugh when people say Left 4 Dead is an incomplete game. You people crack me up.
And being upset because the game went on sale after you paid full price at release is just petty.
01/06/2009 at 20:24 Jahkaivah says:
Agree with much of the cynicism surrounding this. Though I reckon Valve is up to something.
That aside, the content should be awesome. Especially the Wandering Witch, since Valve clearly used their mind reader device and stole it from my head, name and all.
01/06/2009 at 20:25 abhishek says:
Here’s what bugs me… It’s been so many months since L4D shipped and they have obviously not given it the kind of attention that TF2 gets. But all this while, I was assuming that they would be working on content updates at their usual slow pace. Now it seems (this can be wrong of course) that they have been putting all their time in this game instead. I guess they don’t want to extend their TF2 model, of having a game as a service, to any other title. Sad.
01/06/2009 at 20:25 Tei says:
If EA byte you, you become EA.
01/06/2009 at 20:31 The Poisoned Sponge says:
Guys. Valve aren’t stupid. Whatever their strategy is here, I think it’s a bit hasty to get up in arms when you’ve got literally specifics on how it’s going to be distributed/priced. It could be free. It could merge with L4D and be an expansion in all but name. Or, it could just be a new game that’s worth the price.
Whatever it is, don’t start getting all righteous and indignant when you know nothing but the fact this game exists. When you start finding out about how it’s going to work, then you can have informed discussion. Right now, it’s all just assumption and speculation, and we all know what those things lead to.
01/06/2009 at 20:31 Breydel says:
Seems like a really weird move from Valve to me as well. I have bought L4D when it was just out but quite frankly I haven’t played it as much as TF2 (from the Orange Box Bundle) or COD4. I would much rather see Valve put some effort in HL2 Episode 3 as well.
Anyway, since I’m not playing L4D much anyway, I’m not really that interested in L4D2. And this game will even be released relatively close to COD:MW2 and SC2, I’d pick both those 2 titles over L4D2. :)
Maybe somewhere halfway 2010 when the game costs 10 EUR on Steam I might download it, who knows.
01/06/2009 at 20:33 dsmart says:
I think so.
Everyone – even gamers – have to change with the times. In this case, the expectations that Valve has setup naturally won’t jive with anything short of that. Hence the sentiments that are sure to come from this.
Given the arrogance that is prevalent in all companies, I don’t expect Valve to offer any sort of justification (and rightfully so) for a this “business” decision.
Also, I have two letters for you: EA
01/06/2009 at 20:33 Nimic says:
OH THE OUTRAGE!
How dare they release a sequel to one of my most played games the last months after only a year?! I mean, yes, I’ve had an enormous amount of fun with “out of the box” L4D and considered it worth its price, probably playing it more than any other game except for FM09 and TF2 since it came out, but… but…
Can’t f*cking wait :D
01/06/2009 at 20:33 john1990 says:
Microsoft they’re just traitors to pc gaming,i don’t not to support xbox 360 and support pc,but put attention both of them.They’re the real ones that screw pc gaming,not piracy,they’re just goddamn f@#@#@#@ excuse. sorry for that,
they didn’t announce nothing for pc,yeah they love pc very much with they’re dumb GFW.
So MIcro don’t even think of getting out and saying you did try your best to help pc gaming and that people didn’t buy/
Don’t dare to even think of that.
01/06/2009 at 20:36 runcrash says:
@everyone,
Where exactly did Valve say they wouldn’t continue to update L4D? Plus we’ve already gotten one update and the dev tools so far. I’m disappointed too this wasn’t ep3 but it still looks cool and I’m glad we are getting a new Valve game this year.
01/06/2009 at 20:38 yutt says:
I wanted to add my voice to those incredulous that they would do this without a single notable expansion to the original. It is absolutely heartbreaking. The original is still buggy, the match making is horrid (I can’t join as a group to fight other groups, with a co-op 4 player game? Really?), and come to find out they’ve been spending man-hours cranking out a cash-in?
I suppose it is my fault for anthropomorphizing a corporation.
I trusted you Valve! I thought we had something special. How can you do this to me? T_T
01/06/2009 at 20:40 Theoban says:
I love Left 4 Dead
I will probably love Left 4 Dead 2
I am happy about this. I will have more games to play, yay.
01/06/2009 at 20:41 Solario says:
The world’s smallest violin is playing for a lot of you guys. Jesus.
01/06/2009 at 20:45 Shadowmancer says:
If Valve could develop Left 4 Dead 2 in under a year then why has it taken Half life 2 episode 3 over 3 years and counting to be developed, if they put Left 4 dead 2 and Episode 3 together I’ll buy it but it just seems a waste of £30 on the original if the better game comes out a year later.
01/06/2009 at 20:45 jalf says:
@runcrash: We’ve “already” gotten one update, yes, already after only 6 months. And this update gave us how much new content? One single map?
Compare this to the release schedule for TF2. I’m sure you’ll be able to see why some people are a bit disappointed.
Even if they do continue to update L4D, how much should we expect? Another *single* survivor map in another 6 months? At the current rate, it’d take them 2.5 years to release *one* new campaign (5 maps).
Personally, I’m on the fence. I think I’ve had enough fun with L4d to justify the price. But I know a lot of people who are up in arms because they bought L4D on the expectation that it would be updated the way TF2 has been, with actually new content. That didn’t happen, and it’s unlikely to happen now.
This could hurt L4D2′s sales quite a bit.
01/06/2009 at 20:45 HidesHisEyes says:
No good guys in business i guess. Really disappointing news.
01/06/2009 at 20:46 Rich_P says:
I thought it was clever how Valve spun it so that actually finishing L4D and making it worth $50 was considered cool free DLC…
In any event, I paid less money for TF2 at release and it receives substantially more free content than L4D. If I do purchase L4D, it will be for $10 or less.
01/06/2009 at 20:46 Iain "DDude" Dawson says:
Grey Painter said it better then me.
Nooo! You made me wait for so long for Left 4 Dead, and it felt like such a short game. You cut out the between mission cut-scenes. You released the game with only two of the planned four verses modes ready. You (indirectly) promised you would support us. Releasing a sequel will hurt the original community, making that original redundant. As was said before, it really seems valve haven’t learned from EA’s BF2 special forces fiasco, where releasing a new incompatible version of essentially the same game splits the community, making neither game a success. That is the opposite of supporting it! This wont be a full sequel willl it? More of the same, fine-tuned – But at full price! More than that, this is maximum price! I hardly ever buy a videogame at £30, let alone over £40! And that is what you asked for L4D. So this sequel has five campaigns? Each one lasting about 60mins, maybe 90mins on expert. That means you are releasing a $50, £45 game that is less than 6 hours long. OK, so it has a multiplayer versus mode, but any normal developer would have their “promsie of near-infinite replayability” laughed upon. When I bought L4D I felt sure that my purchase was a part of your “we continue to support the game” policy. You relased the game early, even tho’ it was laughably delayed, and since then there have been no new campaigns. Last Stand is a glorified mod, and more Versus was always planned. You are seriously ditching L4D in order to get us to buy L4D2? That is a betrayal of what you implied. I feel manipulated. I have so much rage!
01/06/2009 at 20:47 SwiftRanger says:
Well, I’ve spent a lot of time in L4D but it did feel it had some missed potential. It would be a real shame if Valve wouldn’t continue the story of the original characters now (yes, for free ffs, L4D was a lot more costly than TF2).
01/06/2009 at 20:47 Nayon says:
@runcrash
Releasing this one will divide the community, which will make both games less played by all.
By the way,
Who said the game wasn’t going to be free?
01/06/2009 at 20:47 Tim says:
This is awesome news. I can’t believe people would complain about this. wtf?!
I was always ready to pay for new campaigns, a new game is even better.
01/06/2009 at 20:49 psyk says:
mmm we did get a free update for left 4 dead the last 2 vs maps and survival and why would they release new maps new chars, new zombies, new weapons and a new story as a free expansion when they can release it as a new game.
HAHAHA going to divide the community, what like every sequel ever made.
01/06/2009 at 20:49 teo says:
Valve have made many missteps in the past, it’s just that people like to ignore them
Steam was a disaster for a long time and they’ve treated the CS community like shit for ages even though it’s bigger than the L4D and TF2 communities combined
01/06/2009 at 20:50 Dolphan says:
I’ve no complaints, I spent £30 on Left 4 Dead and have played at least 25 hours or so, all good fun and more mileage than I get from most games. I did expect more campaigns (which could still happen) but I don’t feel entitled to them.
01/06/2009 at 20:51 aiusepsi says:
It always hurts the most when you’re hurt by the ones you love; this just isn’t what we’d come to expect from Valve.
01/06/2009 at 20:51 Dominic White says:
And now the sequel is announced, the angry backlash against L4D begins. It’s Bioshock all over again.
01/06/2009 at 20:52 Vandelay says:
Why did so many people pay full price for L4D? Both Amazon and Play were selling it at £18 pre-order. You’ve only got yourselves to blame if you bought it through Steam with the normal inflated price tag (the Orange Box has been the only exception I can think of.)
I would be perfectly willing to fork out another £18 as it sounds like they are make lots of improvements that correct some faults with the original. As long as this one is a complete package (namely all of the campaigns are playable in Versus mode from release) I will be happy. Hopefully, they will also include a no medkit mode or being able to change the difficulty for Versus.
01/06/2009 at 20:53 CMaster says:
At those saying that “so and so are much worse” or “this kinda sequel would be normal for any other company” etc etc. Well yes, this is true. The thing is, people have come to expect better from Valve, and have invested their cash and enthusiasim when with ther developers they may well have hesitated a little more. With actions like this, they have put themselves back to just being any other developer in a lot of gamers worlds, which could genuinley cost them sales. Of course, if they make L4D2 half price or something for L4D owners (easy enough with Steam) that would change things around again. (And not unprecedented – remeber when Epic gave UT2003 gamers a discount on UT2004?)
@Walsh – actually, they may be immune (or at least resistant) to the troubles. Game sales aren’t suffering at all and with all the revenue from Steam and their own games, I dout Valve rely on credit to keep going.
I do also wonder how much of a role the Xbox may have played in this. While it would be possible (if financially crazy) to roll an update like this out to PC gamers for free, I gather with the consoles it would be near impossile (they’re having trouble getting a lot of the new TF2 stuff to Xbox, too).
01/06/2009 at 20:53 EyeMessiah says:
Perhaps they’ll sell it at an expansionish price to L4D owners and push hard to sell it at full ££s to new players?
01/06/2009 at 20:53 Turin Turambar says:
So… L4D 1.5.
01/06/2009 at 20:54 The_B says:
For those of you not listening to the podcast: there’s still more L4D1 content coming.
01/06/2009 at 20:55 Shadowmancer says:
It does seem that Valve has run out of cash and realized that they must start making games annually rather than once every 5 – 8 years, its an improvement yes but they could just hire more people from the measly 151 employees to around 500 to increase productivity. Hopefully this would mean that future Valve titles will be released faster than waiting for 5 years for the damn game to come out.
01/06/2009 at 20:56 Trezoristo says:
I don’t know. I thought L4D was a fun and polished game, maybe slightly more pricey than their other games but still good value.
I’ll have to see just how much new stuff is going to be added to L4D2 and how much it’s going to cost. Then I’ll be able to give an informed opinion on this.
I have a lot of respect for Valve, I’m going to assume their going to find a way to make this work. They might charge people who own the original game less. And really, I can’t blame Valve for asking money for 5 new campaigns.
01/06/2009 at 20:57 Wallace says:
CYNICISM DETECTED.
Hopefully we’ll get some more specific information during the week.
01/06/2009 at 21:00 Tim says:
and why the hell are people complaining that we don’t have to wait 3 years to get a new valve game?!
01/06/2009 at 21:00 Brainkite says:
I love the choice of all black american sitcoms
usually i would be crtizising making a sequel so soon, but i so much want it right now that i won’t.
Valve, let me be your dog
01/06/2009 at 21:01 GLOWi says:
I’m so sorely disappointed. I had high hopes for Ep3 announcement.
01/06/2009 at 21:05 Senethro says:
a bunch of big babies with entitlement complexes in this comments
01/06/2009 at 21:06 An Innocuous Coin says:
Well, like I told a friend of mine, I’m not about to complain about chainsaws, or bullets that set things on fire. But it does feel a little…soon? I mean usually it takes a few years for sequels to get out, and I imagine L4D still had plenty of life left in it…I wouldn’t mind an explanation as to why they decided to go with a second game, but regardless: chainsaws!
And frying pans!
01/06/2009 at 21:08 El_MUERkO says:
there is no other way to say this but the painfully ciche….
OM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM!!!
01/06/2009 at 21:08 Rich_P says:
And now the sequel is announced, the angry backlash against L4D begins. It’s Bioshock all over again.
You forget to use the phrase “angry Internet men.” I just find posts like this stifling and unproductive. If someone paid $50 for L4D and feels ripped off, then why not let them voice their opinions in an intelligent matter?
If people have a sense of entitlement, it’s only because Valve gave them one w/ regards to TF2 in particular.
01/06/2009 at 21:09 CMaster says:
@ Shadowmancer
There is a world of evidence out there that larger teams don’t necessarily make for faster and almost always make for worse game development. There are places they are appropriate, but I don’t think Valve is one of them. You also get diminishing returns, so putting a lot more people on a game can reduce the final bottom line.
01/06/2009 at 21:12 Stupoider says:
@Tim: Because we like to know that Valve is taking their time making the game as perfect as possible. This really does seem like a rush for Valve.
01/06/2009 at 21:14 Hobbes says:
How dare their 190+ employees dare feed and clothe themselves by forcing me to buy a sequel to one of the best releases of 2008 which I played for many many hours, which they are continuing to support while also producing incredibly high quality sequels to some of the greatest games available AND providing random content updates and videos of great humour, just like every other developer always does, during a recession. The basts.
01/06/2009 at 21:15 AlexMax says:
Honestly, I think that this is a good thing. It sounds like Valve wanted to expand the Left 4 Dead formula and the scope of it was way too big for a free expansion.
Besides, I wouldn’t be surprised if the first L4D was going to continue getting updates as well.
01/06/2009 at 21:15 jackflash says:
I loved L4D, but this is a bit annoying considering they still haven’t released the SDK for the original game. I mean, still no real full-on mods? It’s sad. Feels like they’re kow-towing to the console life.
01/06/2009 at 21:18 yns88 says:
L4D2 will apparently contain all the maps in L4D1 so you don’t have to leave one game to start up the other.
So I’m guessing it really is an expansion. Pay $50 for the new game, or $10-20 to download the expansion if you already have the new game.
It’s just so misleading that they’re adding a “2″ on it when it’s really just a handful of extra content.
01/06/2009 at 21:21 oddbob says:
With every single paragraph of this preview, I think I wee’d my pants a little bit more.
Thanks RPS chaps.
01/06/2009 at 21:21 SOVIET says:
At first I was like “Umm, this cannot be”, but then after reading a couple of articles and watching a few videos it really does look like the amount of changes and improvements being made are big enough for a new game.
I for one am excited, I cannot fucking wait for this game.
Anyone know which actor from The Wire voices one of the characters? Please, please let it be Clay Davis’ actor
Edit: Listening to the podcast, not Clay :(
01/06/2009 at 21:22 MrBejeebus says:
dont know about this, seems more like MS pushing valve for more content
L4D still has alot of life in it, even more if they brought out more levels
im sure this couldve originally been planned as DLC but they decided to expand upon it
01/06/2009 at 21:22 warrenEBB says:
SO AWESOME! I’ve been heavily addicted to the first, and can’t wait for a totally different setting. I just hope the chainsaw weilder can lose control and “accidentally” chopup unlucky teammates. (well, i also hope they’ll end up paying off the characters from the first game in this, or future titles. like two teams of 4 exploring separate routes through the same map could be interesting).
01/06/2009 at 21:23 MetalCircus says:
Pretty disapointed. I really hope this is a free add-on for L4D and not a total new sequal.
01/06/2009 at 21:23 Ryan says:
Guess what Shadowmancer? those 151 employees can do every job that valve has to offer, including fixing a microwave. That’s why they don’t have more, because only the 151 of them are competent enough to work all areas.
As for L4D2, Fail. Congratulations valve, you’ve lost me here. Instead of Re-hashing the same arguments, Re-make, l4d still unfinished, I’m going to bring up a new point.
With two games out, Why create any more new content? You have two parts of a whole game, split up by sequeling.
I can see this happening to valve. this is their new content. Sure, bug fixes and improvements may be made, but I can see a cessation of new, original content coming from valve.
That’s why the SDK was released, so they can sit back while the community takes over the creative part. Valve has utterly disappointed me here.
01/06/2009 at 21:23 PeopleLikeFrank says:
Ahhaha!
Sounds awesome. AIM wouldn’t be so bad if they weren’t so bandwagon-y and jump-to-conclusion-y.
First off, the changes sound like they’ve had a lot of honest work put in to them, sound like they’ll change the game significantly, and like they’re gonna be good fun. Second, we don’t know what they’re planning to charge for this, or whether it could potentially be bundled with something else. Third, they never said they’ll stop supporting the first one, working on flaws, releasing new stuff, whatever. Fourth, given that basically everything they’ve ever made has turned out great, it’s probably a little early for all these armchair assessments over value and general QQing. I’ll cede that it has some danger of splitting the community if enough people are still feeling whiny about it come November.
I’ma wait for some more details, but sounds like a buy from me for sure.
01/06/2009 at 21:25 jalf says:
@yns88: Where did you get the thing about the maps? Everything they’ve said so far in the preview and podcast here have been that it is a new game. new cast, new AI director, new Infected types, new maps, new everything. It doesn’t sound like an expansion.
If you know something we don’t, please give us a link to the source.
And all the “counter-whiners” who apparently have nothing better to do than tell everyone else to shut up and quit whining, you keep missing a key part of the story.
Yes, Valve is a company, they need to make money, and yes, it’s within their rights to make a sequel, and yes, the sequel is probably going to be a good game, but as Rich_P said, if people have an entitlement complex, it’s because Valve went out of their way to create one. Valve has made a huge deal of their commitment to supporting and updating the games you buy from them. The reason a lot of people bought L4D wasn’t that it looked awesome, but that it looked like an awesome concept that Valve were going to flesh out later.
People bought into the promise, which Valve is now retracting.
Once again, I’m not too angry about this (yet- I’ll make up my mind when we know more), but I can certainly see why many are upset. And I don’t think it’s very constructive to just say “yeah but you bought the game, now quit whining”.
People bought the game for a reason that Valve failed to deliver on. And now Valve wants them to buy the game *again*. Why should they?
@PeopleLikeFrank: But *your* armchair assessments are ok?
I agree on the first point, and you’re right on the second.
On the third: They never supported L4D in the first place. It’s not a matter of “will they continue to support L4D”, but will they *begin* to support L4d?” And that seems unlikely. If they took 6 months to release *one* new map, and they’ve now got L4D2 to focus on, I somehow doubt we’re going to see any major updates starting now. At best, we’re going to see the same trickle of patches, which means that 2 years from now, they might add *one* new campaign.
Fourth? Not everything Valve has touched has turned out great. L4D is a key example. A lot of people feel it has turned out a major disappointment *because* Valve haven’t updated it.
So perhaps you could drop the condescending tone and stop actually insulting people who are unhappy with the announcement? They have a valid point, they just prioritize different than you. So grow up.
01/06/2009 at 21:28 cm7 says:
But I want Episode 3, not L4D2 (2 much numb3rs)
01/06/2009 at 21:30 Lobotomist says:
Completely disappointed with Valve
When i bought L4D for 50$ , i knew it was not worth the money for full title. But knowing Valve track record with TF2 i expected new maps and updates regularly.
Well guess what. I turns out i payed 50$ for 2 hours of gameplay – that you can repeat until you puke.
And only one questionable update.
And now if you want new maps pay 50 more bucks….
Bum move for Valve…
01/06/2009 at 21:32 Rei Onryou says:
Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes, oh yes, OH…….I think I need to change my underwear.
I hope this somehow links into L4D. Perhaps like how CoH Opposing Fronts links into CoH, but without the awful account jiggery. Doesn’t seem quite right to completely split the L4D community across two games (even though most will get the sequel).
01/06/2009 at 21:35 PuffyPuffy says:
Well, it seems like this was obviously planned from the start. Valve like to take their time perfecting things, and one year really doesn’t seem like enough unless they decided form the beginning to try this whole ‘expansion as a sequel’ thing.
But!
Left 4 dead has been so much fun that I’m in no way bitter about it. Even if they end up doing exactly the same thing with left 4 dead 2 I’ll still be happy to hand over another 50 bucks for the (kind of) new stuff.
If it gets in the way of the quality of the game, well that’s another story…
01/06/2009 at 21:37 jonfitt says:
Show me what passes for fury among your misbegotten kind.
Oh… I see.
01/06/2009 at 21:39 Tworak says:
“I hope this somehow links into L4D. Perhaps like how CoH Opposing Fronts links into CoH, but without the awful account jiggery. Doesn’t seem quite right to completely split the L4D community across two games (even though most will get the sequel).”
Yeah that will let the L4D1 dudes play with the L4D2 dudes too, assuming they play on the older episodes. Like MMO’s do it.
Also, $20 plz!
01/06/2009 at 21:40 ReturnToNull says:
Really this is less about too soon, and more about them trying to sell me the exact same game twice. With some simplistic modding and a reskin to justify it. Stuff we probably would have seen from the community if you know we had the SDK.
01/06/2009 at 21:42 The right to arm bears says:
It seems to me that the take-home point in this whole discussion, were one a newbie and listening in for the first time, is that valve’s model for TF2 is effing awesome .
01/06/2009 at 21:44 XKaan says:
Hmmm….I smell shenanigans. This is not like Valve AT ALL. They are notorious for playing pranks, so I don’t see why this wouldn’t be any different.
I’m a loyal Valve fan. I play TF2, Half life series, CS, CSS etc. I would honestly say that L4D2 is probably a game I look forward too the LEAST.
Announcing Episode 3, Portal 2, or a new Counter-Strike is big news, not L4D2. L4D is a so-so game, but fun nonetheless. I just think taking into consideration Valve’s reputation, this must be a trick of some sort.
Just my .02
01/06/2009 at 21:54 Monchberter says:
Ok, think rationally.
Valve acquires Turtle Rock 18 months ago. L4D was released last November. They already had a full dev team in Seattle pumping out TF2 content.
The TF2 DLC on the Xbox and PS hits a dead end. There’s literally too much to even release and get to run (RAM limits) and MS want to charge for it.
In this situation, with the content being churned out at a quick pace by the former Turtle Rock do you think Valve would risk trying to develop L4D2 as additional DLC when MS have dragged their feet and refuse to offer free DLC and it may be too much stuff to even get out as DLC?
No, they’ve taken the easy route for them that also stops console gamers getting annoyed that their PC brethren get all the juicy content (ala TF2) and have rationally made this a stand alone sequel to make sure everyone gets to play it.
This is a move to bring some parity back between the formats and to capitalise on their surprising productivity while telling MS to fuck off with their charging for DLC and taking the bigger cut for themselves.
01/06/2009 at 21:55 Lobotomist says:
This is not a prank. Companies dont do pranks that can seriously damage their reputation.
01/06/2009 at 21:55 Dan says:
This is coming in a Box, methinks. Most likely with Portal 2, as frankly what have the Narbacular Drop guys been doing for two years if not making Portal 2?
01/06/2009 at 21:58 Vandelay says:
Oh, one thing I do agree with the whiners about: I want Ep.3 news. I’m sure I remember them saying that they would be making announcements not long after L4D’s release. Perhaps they meant L4D2
01/06/2009 at 21:58 Stabby says:
I was really doubtful about L4D2, but this article did a lot to calm me down. It actually sounds like a pretty awesome game.
01/06/2009 at 22:02 beef chief says:
I liked left4dead but it got knida boring after a month. It’s no fun with strangers and i can never get all my friends on at the same time. I think left4dead2 will have the same problems. Although im hopeful about the map randomization.
01/06/2009 at 22:03 Brett says:
Yea, I think this is pretty much an admission that L4D 1 is too broke to fix right.
So what? Gimmie. **Extends a hand-full of cash towards Gabe Newell.**
01/06/2009 at 22:03 vash47 says:
I never liked Valve games, apart from HL1 (which was a masterpiece), and Steam is absolute crap. They finally show their true nature.
I really hope the Valve fanboyism dissappears now from the majority of PC gamers.
01/06/2009 at 22:03 Psychopomp says:
1 year is not enough time to make a modern FPS
Color me worried.
01/06/2009 at 22:04 Freelancepolice says:
Sounds like lots more than your average COD or Fifa update. Deal
01/06/2009 at 22:05 psyk says:
Maybe you guys need to not hold game devs in such high regard.
01/06/2009 at 22:06 Smurfy says:
So guys, Zoey or Rochelle? I still think Zoey is hotter.
01/06/2009 at 22:10 Dave says:
This time I will wait for a price drop rather than day 1 full price… unless of course it does come in a Some-Other-Color Box with other things.
As for Portal 2, I thought HL2 Ep3 was supposed to be something of a Portal prequel, with a prototype or early GLaDOS and a variant of the ASHPD?
01/06/2009 at 22:10 Mman says:
After seeing elsewhere that they may include the old compaigns with L4D2 if they get enough feedback it does sound like a UT2003-2004 thing, where there were fundamental things they wanted to fix but they couldn’t (albeit with the difference that L4D is already good unlike UT2003, where they were turning some sort of botched public beta into a finished game and the discount was more like an apology) and are moving right on to another game to shift things as soon as possible. From that perspective I do hope there’s some sort of discount for owners of the original, and I also hope they include the original so that the fanbase shifts as soon to possible to what they apparently intended very soon after initial feedback on the first.
01/06/2009 at 22:13 Skittles the Porrat says:
Still wish it was called Left 5 Dead.
01/06/2009 at 22:14 PeopleLikeFrank says:
@jalf
I’m trying not to make any, just throw out a few points to maybe give pause before deciding Valve is the new EA. As I said, I’m waiting on some more detail before coming to conclusions. We apparently disagree on some of those points. That’s OK.
01/06/2009 at 22:15 Kadayi says:
“People bought into the promise, which Valve is now retracting.”
Guess you missed the bit in the podcast where Chet mentions they they are still supporting the original game. Personally I expect that they will have a tie in offer for existing players, as and when it goes to ship, as a form of sweetener.
01/06/2009 at 22:16 Fumarole says:
“Show me what passes for fury among your misbegotten kind.
Oh… I see.”
Most excellent.
01/06/2009 at 22:16 Novotny says:
Where the hell is CS2? Someone must know something. I can’t believe they’re not going to reprise Counterstrike, so can only assume it’s one mother of an NDA.
I suggested a couple of years ago that perhaps they wanted to put CS2 into their next engine, assuming that they are producing a new Source, as opposed to continually updating it. Or maybe they’re doing both.
Who knows? Someone must.
01/06/2009 at 22:19 Jeremy says:
Psycho: Most of the dev time is gone. Same engine, reuse resources, previous technologies in hand (no need to reinvent the wheel as they say). Add in some inspiration from a talented team and you don’t need years :)
I think it’s too bad that people are so quick to throw Valve under the bus. In my mind they have been PC heroes, constantly offering quality products as well as a convenient way to purchase quality titles from other development companies. They have a history of supporting their games way beyond the norm as well as adding content at little to no cost to the gamer. Aside from a few people who jumped on the hate bandwagon, most really like Valve and Steam, or at the very least can appreciate how they have changed PC gaming. We really should wait to see how all of this plays out before we execute an ally of PC gaming.
01/06/2009 at 22:19 TheSombreroKid says:
it doesn’t matter if theres more l4d content coming because as soon as l4d2 is released l4d1 is a dying community, how many NORMAL people honestly play cs1 over cs source by choice.
EDIT: i feel really sorry for the people who bought the game when the survivor pack was announced, if they’d jst waited a week they’d of known it’d be a waste of money and whats worse is valve actually knew this themselves and presumably deliberatly withheld that information to get more sales.
01/06/2009 at 22:20 Dave says:
Come to think of it… I’d rather have a chainsaw in TF2. As a Pyro unlock preferably.
Let’s just leave the Demoman as he is and have another Pyro update.
01/06/2009 at 22:24 Psychopomp says:
@Jeremy
Yes, I realize they have most of the groundwork done.
That doesn’t change the fact that it took Valve two years to make episode 1.
01/06/2009 at 22:27 Alterson1 says:
This is AWESOME. I’m amazed at all the L4D haters. I usually burn through a game in a 1 week or 2, tops, but I still play L4D consistently and it’s been out 6 months. I enjoy it far more than Team Fortress 2.
This is great news.
BTW, if you’re not playing Versus you’re not playing L4D.
01/06/2009 at 22:35 The Innocent says:
Sounds like the RPS comments transformed into the Steam forum overnight…
01/06/2009 at 22:37 Dave says:
@The Innocent:
LOL WTF LEARN TO PLAY W+M1 NOOB! CRY SOME MORE!
10whatevers
(See, it could be worse.)
01/06/2009 at 22:38 Funky Badger says:
L4D was the best game of last year. And now there’s a sequel. And this is somehow… a bad thing?
Sometimes, the internets are worse than Hitler.
Also, I loving the “I ‘ve only got massive sense of entitlement because Valse gave it to me” theme. Truely beyond parody.
Also also, L4D2 sounds like R2′s evl megalomanic (well, more megalomaniac) brother!
01/06/2009 at 22:38 Luke says:
This is a HUGE disappointment! Very cheesy move by Valve.
01/06/2009 at 22:39 Rich says:
I’ve sunk 25 hours or so into Left 4 Dead and I feel I have gotten my moneys worth out of it. I had, like so many others, expected that this sort of content would be given for free ala TF2. Therefore I’m somewhat disappointed that’s not going to be the case (I’m sure they’ll still be some minor content/bug fixes thrown in to appease some players).
Unless L4D2 reviews extremely well or I am impressed by a demo I doubt I’ll pick it up. I’m not as excited about L4D2 as I was L4D anyway.
01/06/2009 at 22:42 dsmart says:
@ Shadowmancer
Yes, thats right – because it is proven that throwing more bodies at a game increases and ensures productivity. Right.
My guess is that this was definitely DLC – and reeks of it – but something made them change direction and go for a sequel instead. That something has Dollar signs written all over it.
Why they’d want to fragment the L4D community is beyond my compression. Its not like the game is years old. Barely a year later and there’s L4D2. Yep, this had DLC written all over it. Why they couldn’t release it as DLC and charge the same price as a fulll game is quite puzzling. Unless of course they’d rather deal with the fanboy backlash at a sequel announcement than a full-price DLC uproar. If that were me, I’d go for the latter and invest heavily in asbestos suits. And maybe throw in a strait jacket for good measure.
01/06/2009 at 22:43 beef chief says:
Anyone else hoping for a green box with portal 2, left4dead2 and Halflife Episode 3 in? (will never happen)
01/06/2009 at 22:43 Idle Threats & Bad Poetry says:
I consider myself shocked and awed. I was not expect this! And I’m excited!
01/06/2009 at 22:45 Serondal says:
I would love it if they’d add a feature to L4Dead 2 where randomly if a character gets to swarmed by zombies they are forced to the ground and torn to shreds ALA Old Dawn of the Dead type scenes “where zombies rip a main character apart while they’re still alive, ripping out organs putting their fingers in their eye socket and tearing their skull out of the meaty parts of the head O.o” It could be as simple as the character getting ultra-detail gibbed say just exploding into a ton of gore and body parts while some zobmies playing eatting animations and playing the zombie nomb nomb noise that gives me nightmares.
01/06/2009 at 22:46 Fan says:
Left 4 dead was an amazing game. Sure I hoped they would expand it forever like they are doing with tf2, but it seems they had a large amount of ideas to implement, so a sequel may be warranted.
Some of the new stuff sound really interesting, I will probably buy this game.
01/06/2009 at 22:49 Daniel Puzey says:
Wow, cynical internet peeps. How sad.
Personally: I paid full whack for L4D and have had over 50 hours of fantastic entertainment from it so far. That’s pretty damn good value, really. I’m pretty sure I’ll be paying full whack for the new one the second it comes out, too.
Why do people act like they have a right to have everything for as little as possible, whenever they want it?
Why does it have “DLC written all over it” if you’ve got 5 new campaigns? That’s more than the first game ever had, so what on earth makes anyone think they should give it away for free?
Seriously people, grow up. Or, try putting that amount of effort into something yourself, and then give it away for nothing. See how long you can afford to eat for…
01/06/2009 at 22:50 The Sombrero Kid says:
to be clear, there’s nothing wrong with vavle releasing a new game, there’s nothing wrong with valve releasing a new multiplayer game, but the reason vavle are reusing the l4d brand is to get all the players from the l4d fanbase and the reason it’s an incremental upgrade on the game engine is because it’s an incremental upgrade on the ideas in l4d, if this was a new game type in the same universe it’d be different but this gamme is fighting for the same breathing room as l4d and with a 2 on the end it’s clearly going to win.
people are angry because it seems like the diferance between tf2 when it was released and tf2 circa the updates is a lot bigger than the differance between l4d and l4d2 and if that’s not correct it’s at least vavles fault for not making clear what the differance is.
01/06/2009 at 22:52 k4el says:
I’m confused why this is going to be a completely different game especially considering the DLC for L4D was total crap or just plain non-existent.
I feel like i’ve already shelled out my money for L4d. This move really surprises me and it definitely hurts my opinion of Valve. Especially when the time frame means that when L4D was originally released they already knew L4D2 was coming and was likely very far along. No wonder the DLC was crap, they were busy making a “new” game.
If they price it as a 40-50$ title it better have alot more than a few new chapter and a change of skins for the characters. Much more variety in weaponry and gear would be a plus. I’d start feeling happy buying a new title if it meant i had a ton more ways to use my gear creatively. New game play, expansion price point or i’m ranking this with the Guitar hero 18s and the “We like your money” franchises.
01/06/2009 at 22:52 The Sombrero Kid says:
ohh and the other thing is that everything about this including the way it was announce stinks of xbox 360 and microsoft.
01/06/2009 at 22:55 Simon says:
I sense that L4D2 will be to Episode 3 what CS:S was to HL2. A multiplayer game demonstrating a new engine for their crown jewel
01/06/2009 at 22:57 The Sombrero Kid says:
@simon that may be true but cs:source was free if you had cs
01/06/2009 at 23:00 benjamin says:
Glad to see that the Valve White Knights are coming out in force. Maybe if you’re nice enough gaben will flash you his moobs.
Like I’d said before, *no one* should be surprised that Valve has shown so much content in so short a time. This content (and the engine changes that accompany it) were clearly targeted toward the original L4D until someone decided to monitize the work they’d already done.
Just as I figured, many have pointed out that “lol you paid full price, you got what you paid for hurrrr.” Yes, I did. I only have myself to blame. When L4D came out and there were a multitude of accusations about it being undeveloped I looked upon the amazing metamorphosis that TF2 had undergone and, with that in mind, plunked down my $50 and bought it.
It was foolishness on my part.
The important thing to note is this: now that I’ve been burned, I’ll know not to make that mistake again. Now I’ll never buy a less-than fully developed Valve game before they make it abundantly clear that additional content is forthcoming.
I can only hope (and I’ll be proven wrong, as G-d knows that today’s uneducated, ‘gotta have it now’ consumer will lap up anything shoved in front of their face) that if more of Valve’s customers will be wary of buying an unfinished product, Valve will look upon their copious amount of telemetry data and realize that their actions have done nothing other than damage the fan-base that they’d helped to cultivate.
But what do I know?
01/06/2009 at 23:03 Wooly says:
Obviously that release date does not factor in Valve time. I estimate a November 17th release date. In 2010. :P
01/06/2009 at 23:05 Flint says:
IGN has a bunch of gameplay vids, starting from http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14352245/left-4-dead-2/videos/l4d2_gmp_alarm_052809.html and going with the playlist.
I mean sure the gameplay’s the same but they show off new guns, locations, characters etc.
01/06/2009 at 23:05 ArtyArt says:
“Perhaps one of the most endearing aspects of L4D was the characters’ surprisingly apt and timely remarks about the events, and occasional exchanges.”
“I hate stairs.” “I hate elevators.” “I hate hospitals. And doctors. And Lawyers. And cops.”
Priceless.
01/06/2009 at 23:06 CMaster says:
@Beef Chief considering they realeased L4D at the same price as the Orange Box, despite most people thinking it looked more like a $20-30 game, it’s hard to see that happening with a version that has even more content.
01/06/2009 at 23:07 justen says:
i havent bothered to read all the comments but was disappointed by the ones i did read so i thought id leave my mark as well.
people go on and on and gripe about the most IDIOTIC things… its funny how they are complaining about not getting the content that they are now getting and about how they will have to actually pay something for it.
when i pay for a game, i get exactly what is. and ive gotten my money’s worth much more in l4d than most of the console games that ive bought for the exact same price, if not higher. the hope of expansions and updates are not guaranteed at anytime. and usually is up to the community to get behind and support (ie new campaigns and mods). i know the sdk hasn’t been fully released in the way we would like, but there is nothing here to say they arent going to be supporting the current l4d up until the new ones release. which there are actually lots of already made user campaigns and game modes (www.l4dmaps.com) but here, we are given content that seems to surpass our original givings and people are complaining about it?
i dont want a measly extra two campaigns if THIS is on the table. give me this and i will GLADLY pay for all your hard work valve.
thanks for really striving to create new experiences for us to enjoy and take in with friends. the ideas here seem like a lot of fun to play with and i am so excited to think of the times that will be had.
grow up people. be glad we even exist in a time that humanity can go on a myriad of fantasy adventures as we do with our only loss being 50 bucks. in case of a real zombie apocolypse, most of you all would just become members of the mindless horde for me and three teammates to practice headshots on :P
great article btw RPS, thanks for delivering in such detail!
01/06/2009 at 23:08 Funky Badger says:
How is L4D unfinished? As in, its unfun?
01/06/2009 at 23:09 lrdslayer says:
Honestly, I’m not to sure what to say.
Though I am glad to hear the next one is coming out, I am very disappointed that I’m not getting updates aside from Survival mode. And lastly, I do think that this should be just an expansion. I’m hoping valve isn’t looking to charge us $50-$60 for this.
01/06/2009 at 23:13 Fumarole says:
Lot’s of assumptions have been made in this thread, few of them on any grounds that I can see as being stable. Wait and see people, wait and see. Knowing Valve it won’t be out by Christmas anyway.
I’d also like to see an intelligent post about how L4D is unfinished.
01/06/2009 at 23:14 Kadayi says:
“I’d also like to see an intelligent post about how L4D is unfinished.”
Seconded.
Likewise. Also LOL that this is ‘free’ DLC repackaged as a game. It sounds a hell of a lot more ambitious than that. You’ve got actual area damage going on, more specials, more guns, melee combat (+ weapons), 5 new campaigns and new characters.
01/06/2009 at 23:21 Sir Digby says:
Hmmm, remember the orange box? I wonder how valve could match that…?
Just sayin’
01/06/2009 at 23:21 Mad Doc MacRae says:
I hope I ultimately find this more compelling than either L4D1 or TF2. The latter defeated the former on my computer, even though I think both accomplish what they set out to do very well.
Who knows. I’ll probably pick L4D2 later during a discount day…
01/06/2009 at 23:23 Arathain says:
The amount of entitlement in this thread is astonishing.
01/06/2009 at 23:27 Basil says:
Clearly Valve should have never released those TF2 updates for free. Now the kids are spoiled.
01/06/2009 at 23:29 Jazmeister says:
Yeah but, Valve deserve to get paid for making maps and things, right? TF2 is different, I recommend a new player to that almost every single day, shipping new free content is working well for them. L4D was a gamble for me, and I only have it because it was a gift; I was far too hesitant to buy the original. New story, new characters (including the Engie), new maps, settings, infected… it sounds awesome. Just, you know, the gore totally puts me off (I feel like I’m crazy in this regard).
01/06/2009 at 23:30 Serondal says:
This has 5 campaigns, 4 new characters, twice as many zombie types and voice acting to go along with all these new characters and locations along with deeper story evolution along the new campaigns. Voice actors have to be paid, coders have to be paid. Add a new map or two or adding a few goofy weapons is nothing compared to 5 entire campaigns and voice acting to go along with 4 new characters! Also upgardes to the director and news randomly generated areas in the game (not just monsters but buildings) NOTHING about this says DLC , this is obviously a brand new game. There is no reason all this work should be release for free, Valve as a company will fail if they put all this work into a new game and just give it away.
The new setting sounds very interesting and dealing with zombies durning the day also seems interesting (though some of the campaigns start off semi day in L4D) When it is night things feel like a nightmare which is all good and scary but durning the day you’re faced with the harsh reality that this is all really happening and you’re never going to wake up from your nightmare. Also you can see the gore ect better . . . The upgrade gore system sounds awesome though I dunno if you’ll be able to notice it, I suspect you will notice it at first then just ignore it as you focus on survival.
01/06/2009 at 23:31 JonFitt says:
What Valve is looking to do with L4D2 is no different to what many other companies do with their games.
The problem is they do it while having previously offered the single best deal in the history of computer games: The Orange Box.
So while Valve is behaving no differently, people assumed they were getting awesome future value (“how can this game retail for the same price as the entire Orange Box if it’s not going to be at least of equal value”), whereas they just got a hugely fun, but short-lived game.
Any time expectation does not meet reality there will be disappointment.
01/06/2009 at 23:34 malkav11 says:
Yeesh. I thought Left 4 Dead was vastly overpriced at $50 even with the promise of free expansions. (Which can’t be ruled out even still, I guess, but seem much less likely). And now they’re already going back for another run at the trough?
Then again, I didn’t buy Left 4 Dead (because I thought it was desperately shallow and tedious) so if the improvements in the sequel make it actually enjoyable, I can just go ahead and pick that up without feeling like I’ve been soaked.
01/06/2009 at 23:35 Serondal says:
Orange Box was just one small episode of half life 2 , a mod and a short puzzle game based off an Nabacular Drop (Made by the same team) The price made sense
01/06/2009 at 23:37 nny says:
oh man we are halfway through building a new campaign for l4d what will this mean for the modding community? Have our efforts been wasted?
01/06/2009 at 23:39 Nick says:
The only reason they took so little time on the new one is because it does not take long to make the same game with different skins and different maps. Think about it. How hard would it be to take some game like gears of war 2 take the same kind of graphics, the same skins and almost the same textures and shapes in the maps and turn it into a new game. Im actually disapointed its going to be like the 1st one because the first one was such a let down. I didnt know why the zombies where there, i did not know who the people where and why they stayed in the city after everyone left and i did not know where they went after they got rescued. Honestly how the hell did they get from the city to the country back to the city and then to an airoport?!?! i was hoping they would add back stories for the characters and some sort of story but since they have not made those upgrades i will not go as far to buy this game but play it at a friends house or maybe rent it but idk if its worth the 14.95 gamefly makes me pay everymonth to get L4D2. but thats just my opinion…
01/06/2009 at 23:41 Dolphan says:
Serondal – only if you already had Half-Life 2 + Episode 1 and didn’t use the gifts. Also TF2 wasn’t a mod. It was fantastic value.
Anyone remember when there was almost no such thing as free DLC for games? That far off time? Must have been at least two years ago!
01/06/2009 at 23:42 Fenchurch says:
I am so excited! :-3
I thought I’d be an Angry Internet Man and be all “Grr, I deserve more”, but an RL friend talked me down off my high horse. L4D is a full price game because it’s an excellent piece of hard work that is worth the price tag. If anyone other than Valve had made it none of these unfavourable comparisons would be made /viz./ pricing and “I deserve more” etc.
In progress mods won’t be “wasted”, they’ll keep L4D 1 alive (undead?) and I’ll happily play new user made campaigns as they appear.
01/06/2009 at 23:43 The Sombrero Kid says:
valve do need to be paid for thier work but they didn’t have to remake a game they released 6 months ago, they could make episode 3 or a new ip if it absolutly must be multiplayer or what i would love would be a coop single player experience in the left 4 dead universe.
01/06/2009 at 23:44 Mad Doc MacRae says:
Maybe I’ll just get it in Orange Box 2:
HL:E3, L4D2, the last TF2 update, and Portal 2.
I can dream, can’t I?
01/06/2009 at 23:45 Okami says:
ARRGGGHHH!!! VALVE WANTS MONAY FOR A NEW GAME FROM ME!!!! I AM A PERSON WHO PLAYS VIDEOGAMES AND DEMAND TO BE GIVEN PREESENTS!! ARRGGHHH!!! WHY DO I HAEV TO PAY FOR SMOEHTING!!! GRRAAA!!!!!! NOW I HAVE TO GO ON THE INTENRETS AND TELL EVARYBODY THAT VALVE ARE GREEDY BASTARDS!!!
I AM ENTITLED EVERYTHING AND I DEMAND AND DEMAND AND DEMAND!!!!!!!!!!
I hate gamers.
01/06/2009 at 23:45 Funky Badger says:
Heh, it appears we’re onto the “I never loved her anyway” stage aleady. Is that stage 3 or 4 of the classic internets backlash cycle?
01/06/2009 at 23:46 Fuzzdad says:
So they sold 2.5 million copies of L4D retail and, if you read between the lines that accounts for about half of the overall sales (rest being digital)…so anyone here saying L4D wasn’t a success is clearly enamored of their own opinion. Seems to me Valve has also NEVER not supported their IP’s regardless of release…I’ll further the guess to say the original L4D will be updated to the latest engine so the MP portion of the games will probably be interchangeable on the PC.
We’re lucky to have a company deep in the pockets at a time when game companies are falling down all around us with the regularity of rain in the rain forest. Seems to me this should be championed instead of lampooned.
01/06/2009 at 23:46 The Sombrero Kid says:
@Dolphan yep you’re right and people were pissed off about that too, this is a good deal if you didn’t already buy l4d
01/06/2009 at 23:48 Rosti says:
Remember that this is the same Valve who announced the Survivor “DLC” a few months back; they’ll be well aware of the Angry Internet Men.
That’s not to say that they couldn’t possibly be making a mistake here, just that it’d be wise to wait for more details before going nova.
01/06/2009 at 23:50 Serondal says:
lmao # Funky Badger
Yes TF2 is just a mod. I dunno why they even call it TF2 since there was no TF1 per say but a bunch of diffrent TF mods, I supose they’re refering back to the Mod for quake though. CS, DOD, TF2 they’re all mods that Valve just updated and started to sell which is just fine by me.
01/06/2009 at 23:50 Cooldudekatty says:
At first I was a little disappointed with how the game looks. The characters seem like flat stereotypes of different types of people. The original had such deep character personalities. Then I realized, the game is not going to be released for months. There’s no reason that Valve wouldn’t continue to support L4D. Also, they may continue to develop the characters a little more. The improved director AI sounds awesome. I am kinda disappointed that that they would set the next game during the daytime. I mean, sure it “provides a different experience” and “adds new insights to the characters” or whatever. I just think that setting it during the day ruins some of the intensity of the original. I think that having an infected that you didn’t even see before run out of the shadows toward you is far more terrifying than always seeing it coming from a mile away. I hope they develop this game more or I might just not buy it.
01/06/2009 at 23:53 Okami says:
@Nick:
The only reason they took so little time on the new one is because it does not take long to make the same game with different skins and different maps.
You, sir, clearly have no idea about game development. Thank you for sharing your ignorance with the world.
01/06/2009 at 23:53 Senethro says:
Valve! We thought you were are friends but it turns out you’re out to make money from us!
01/06/2009 at 23:54 Dave says:
I wonder if L4D content might be more difficult/expensive to develop than TF2 content. A TF2 level is basically a fairly small, but (mostly) highly tuned/balanced area, in many cases symmetrical. A lot of polish goes into it but there’s only so much of it. It’s the gameplay that drives replay value.
An L4D level is physically much larger, and may have nearly as much attention to detail in terms of design and balance, probably more so in terms of art, and quite likely all kinds of invisible triggers and zones and scripts for the Director. And that’s just one part of 4-5 that have to be tied together for each campaign.
I’m guessing most of the development effort for L4D is building and tweaking levels, and most of it for TF2 is gameplay and balance.
01/06/2009 at 23:54 The Sombrero Kid says:
half life was just a quake mod really :D
01/06/2009 at 23:55 Don says:
Well I like the sound of it and I guess that Valve will probably convert the existing campaigns to the new(ish) engine. Easier for them and fans of the old maps and characters to have it all in one bundle.
But the price is going to be a factor for me. I didn’t buy L4D via Steam as the price was silly so I can’t complain too much, but more of the same, even if better, at a full game price is pushing it. Perhaps they’ll give a discount to anyone who’s bought the original, easy enough with Steam, but if not I’ll probably wait until a sale weekend comes along.
01/06/2009 at 23:56 Mr Chug says:
The_B is right, people should clearly listen to the podcast more (and read other comments more). Chet was saying that L4D updates will keep on coming, starting with a reworked matchmaking tool and a more functional SDK pretty soon, and going on from there. And that all community maps would work with L4D 2. It doesn’t rule out a new orange box- L4D 2 would fit TF2′s multiplayer slot quite nicely.
Now all we need is an 8 player crossover campaign somewhere in the midwest starring both teams.
02/06/2009 at 00:00 AngryInternetman says:
Basil: Valve has time and time again told in interviews, that they like having a fame of giving free DLC and that they will give DLC.
I did (too) buy L4D expecting, that the game will receive more stuff later on. I have’nt touched the game for months now, as Ive seen all it has to offer. (It wasnt much.)
02/06/2009 at 00:01 The Sombrero Kid says:
@Mr Chug i don’t doubt there will be token dlc for l4d, but the truth is the game wont be played after l4d2 is released, it’s the nature of multiplayer games, only the vastly hardcore minority play wow AND eve.
EDIT: & not being played no serious attempt at dlc will be made.
02/06/2009 at 00:03 somnolentsurfer says:
Woah. So much Valve hate!
i don’t know what you’re all complaining about. There’s no way this is coming out in November. if it does I’ll… Well, I’ll be very surprised, at least. I might consider eating an item of TF2 themed headgear.
02/06/2009 at 00:03 Chis says:
Crikey, RPS is straaaaaining under the colossal weight of all these Angry Internet Men joining together in a mass-anti-Valve-a-thon.
I paid £20 for Left 4 Dead on Amazon. I’ve had, probably, at least 50 hours of gameplay out of it so far. Admittedly I’m a little tired of it now and have gone back to TF2, but personally I’d say that was money well spent for so much great game time. :)
Edit: And yes, L4D2 sounds like a fun prospect to me, and at a reasonable pre-order price, I’d likely go for it.
02/06/2009 at 00:04 Surgeon says:
“Yes, the frying pan. Feeling like a sneaky bit of TF2 in the game, it’s the perfect comedy weapon”
Left 4 Dead 2 meets Vic and Bob.
Quality!
02/06/2009 at 00:05 Baddsey says:
Omg why is everyone so negative about this?
It looks absolutely amazing and sounds like its a whole lot better. Ok so u need to buy another game but you have 5 months to save up for it or get it for christmas.
I thank you valve for releasing a sequel to this amazing game!
02/06/2009 at 00:10 manintheshack says:
Assumptions ahoy! What a fantastically hysterical reaction to the mention of a game being released at some point.
02/06/2009 at 00:10 JonFitt says:
I wonder how much of an Osbourne effect L4D will see now? Valve have proudly declared their long sales tail boosted by discount periods and free weekends.
02/06/2009 at 00:11 John Walker says:
Good lord. What a peculiar day it is when the response to the announcement of a sequel to a loved game is met with such fury. Apart from all the people who were happy.
I strongly recommend listening to the podcast, posted below, where Chet discusses much of what’s being asked/screamed about. Also, it’s funny. Remember being happy? Being happy is great.
02/06/2009 at 00:18 demonarm says:
Yes!!!!!!!!! Episode Thr… wat?
02/06/2009 at 00:19 Senethro says:
Why are the long RPS comments threads always the angriest?
02/06/2009 at 00:19 Stupoider says:
John, you’re a beacon of light in this sea of anger. :D Although I may be part of the sea of anger too. But I’m quietly looking forward to this game.
02/06/2009 at 00:22 teo says:
Peculiar? You saw it coming
02/06/2009 at 00:23 kevlar says:
Man, I read this article and felt a huge wave of excitement, only to read comments that sound as if Gabe Newell personally came to everyone’s house and raped their mother.
Seriously, this is why I’m becoming less and less of a PC gamer as time goes by. It’s not the game selection. It’s not the shoddy ports. It’s the fact that I can’t seem to find a single PC gamer on the internet who isn’t an insufferably whiny bitch about every little possible thing. At least console gamers seem to enjoy their hobby once in a while.
02/06/2009 at 00:26 kyrieee says:
Like the console gamers are less angry
02/06/2009 at 00:26 lumpi says:
Anyone notice that Valve hasn’t given birth to an original new game in-house since… well, since HL1, basically? They bought mods, entire student teams, a company (Turtle Rock), which resulted in gems like TF, Portal and L4D. But now they already start falling into the same routine. L4D2? Portal2? HL2E3?… not that HL2, TF2 etc. aren’t excellent sequels, but it’s getting boring.
HL1 is known for revolutionizing the genre, breathing innovation and entirely new ideas, locations and gameplay into the FPS genre. Valve still has a hand for scouting new talent outside the company, but DAMN, I would love to see the core HL1 team come up with an entirely new game. Wished it would have been E3 2009. I’m still hoping for another surprise announcement (or me having missed something in this pile of info flooding the internets right now).
02/06/2009 at 00:27 WilPal says:
This is clearly a big hoax. Looking at both the TF2 and L4D blogs shows that “everyone has been fired” from Valve, and now TF2 style content is in this ‘new’ game?
Baseball bats, axes and frying pans?
The big black dude looks like a demoman, with an Engi colour scheme, the yokel guy looks like a scout and the dude wearing a suit looks like a spy. I can only hazard a guess that the woman is a hint at the pyro conspiracy.
The release date is too soon, there hasn’t been enough DLC for L4D yet, and like evryone has said that is not like Valve at all. The list goes on.
Also, this announcement was made **before** E3.
Now why would they do that i wonder? Because something bigger is going to be unveiled at E3.
Valve sure do know how to play with our minds.
02/06/2009 at 00:28 Fuddley2001 says:
For those who say L4D was embarrassingly short, please observe the steam global gameplay stats for the percentage of players who finished each campaign:
No Mercy – 45.7%
Dead Air – 42.9%
Death Toll – 42.6%
Blood Harvest – 37.4%
So barely a third of players (at most) finished all four campaigns. (Personally I’ve played Death Toll 3 times and No Mercy about 5,247 times and that’s all) Let’s face it, game players, WE SUCK!
02/06/2009 at 00:28 Serondal says:
Only the vastly hardcore minority play WoW ? WTF Are you talking about ? They may be the minority of the earth’s populiation but not the minority of gamers and they certainly aren’t hardcore by any means.
02/06/2009 at 00:28 somnolentsurfer says:
Yay for John Walker.
I’ve no problem at all with daytime campaigns. Sure, the dark was atmospheric in L4D, but this is Valve. I have faith that they could set it on a world made of ice cream and still make it scary if they wanted.
I’m a little bit more sceptical about the new cast. Not because I expect them to be bad – I’ve not watched any of the footage or listened to the podcast yet, that’ll have to wait till the morning. It’s just that, you know, in a sequel I generally expect to find out what happened next? You know, where did that chopper/boat/plane/APC take the characters we know and love? What did they find there? Did they survive?
02/06/2009 at 00:31 The Sombrero Kid says:
@John Walker
you’re half right but the thing is a multiplayer game demands other people to play with, the l4d community will all be dragged onto the sequal forcing everyone who otherwise would be perfectly happy to stick with l4d for a long time onto the sequal also, if they’d made another game or another type of game this wouldn’t be the case.
it’s a peculiar desicion for a company to compete introduce a new product into a market where they’re already monopolists which makes it a very peculiar decision and the fact it was announced at the microsoft conferance focused on xbox owners shows that this is likely a decision made by microsoft and EA and vavle couldn’t resist the cash, which would be understandable, but wouldn’t excalty make me any happier about the fact that i basically wont be able to play left 4 dead after november unless the sequal is noticably inferior.
02/06/2009 at 00:32 Nick says:
@somnolentsurfer
thats exataly what i am saying. They need to add more story to this game or i personal think it wont be sucsessful. Yes lots of people like the concept of heres zombies kill them and dont ask questions but its not going to cut it for the entire gaming comunity
02/06/2009 at 00:35 The Sombrero Kid says:
@Serondal
re-read it, it’ll make sense ;).
02/06/2009 at 00:36 Serondal says:
I don’t think they’re saying every campaign will be entirely in day light any how, just parts of them. Also is there going to be a badgersaw in here? Oh wait wrong game . .
02/06/2009 at 00:38 Gorgeras says:
No one is going to have the patience to sit through a pod-cast.
As a business decision; it’s their choice to make.
As a consumer-producer relations decisions; it’s a fucking disaster and I assume Chet did sort of see it coming but is of the totally wrong view that the kind of forum attack-dog retards Valve allows to patrol the Steam forums are going to stifle the ‘whiners’. It will have the opposite effect.
It’s not a game: it’s a glorified mod, with a full-game price tag, unfinished at release(possibly still unfinished now) and the first Valve game to demonstrate a lack of critical-thinking in regards to the play-testers. After Team Fortress 2, the heavy price-tag strongly hinted Left4Dead would be greatly expanded and would enjoy a long life. Valve are deliberately going to kill it themselves after just a year, the same way Blizzard killed WoW for anyone that wouldn’t buy their extortionist expansions. It’s not going to be worth playing L4D once the sequel is out and all the sheep buy it.
Valve won’t get a dime from me for this.
02/06/2009 at 00:42 kyrieee says:
http://www.videogamer.com/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html
02/06/2009 at 00:42 Leelad says:
Balls to this.
Can they finish the current Half-Life series please? Episodic content will enable them to publish content quicker…..Until something comes along that makes the more fucking money. Shitheads. If this and portal 2 come out before they give me more gman then i’m starting rumors about Gabe and a walrus.
02/06/2009 at 00:46 Fumarole says:
A glorified mod? Do you have any idea how many lines of spoken dialogue there are for the characters in L4D? Thousands for each of them. There’s every reason to believe there will be even more in the next game (says so right above). Glorified mod my ass.
02/06/2009 at 00:46 Doctor Doc says:
Wow, that’s shitty. EA anyone?
02/06/2009 at 00:48 Serondal says:
God forbid Valve make monies! Oh my goodness who told Valve they were suposed to make money off me?
Are there forums about Cheese where people go ape crazy when Kraft releases a new kind of cheese that upgrades the previous cheese just a bit but costs twice as much ?
Valve is in the business to make money, if they make you happy in the proces well then that’s great, but they’re not selling their games to RPS readers they’re selling their games to the unwashed masses they will buy literally ANYTHING They sell. They even made a game about it called Flock and SOLD that you them too. People don’t know when they’re playing Flock THEY Are the sheep and Valve is the space ship. And this is all perfectly fine, Valve is a business nothing more nothing less. They will do everything they can to make more money, because that is what they’re for. That doesn’t make them any greedier than anyone else. When you work over time do the other people working round you explode and call you a greedy SOB who only cares about money?
02/06/2009 at 00:48 Gorgeras says:
Because a gloried mod could *not possibly* have lots of dialogue in it…
02/06/2009 at 00:49 Wirbelwind says:
The sequel looks great. Good fun.
But at the same time I’m incredibly disappointed. The new versus maps had only a day’s work done to them. Survival featured one new crescendo. Then you get to hear they started on L4D2 right after L4D even though they promised post-launch content. It’s unbecoming of Valve.
02/06/2009 at 00:50 Gorgeras says:
No one is criticising Valve for the non-crime of ‘making money’. Anyone that claims this is what the anger is about has resigned from the human race.
02/06/2009 at 00:50 somnolentsurfer says:
@Nick
Yeah, my concern would be that all the talk they gave us about L4D being a multiplayer envisioning of the kind of storytelling they get into the Half Life series is going to evaporate as the game becomes a franchise. Maybe it’ll turn out that Francis, Zoey and the rest are all dead. And if that’s the case I’ll be happy, but I’d at least like them to give me some kind of narrative as to what happened to them.
02/06/2009 at 00:50 Fumarole says:
Thousands of lines for each character? Please show me that mod. Don’t worry, I’ll wait.
02/06/2009 at 00:53 The Sombrero Kid says:
the guys who made flock work round the corner from my offices, it wasn’t vavle it was proper games, incidently, under capitalism vavle are allowed to make money off you however they like, assuming it’s legal, but our right to ‘vote with our wallets’ is what makes a free market and it’s what is supposed to keep capitalists in check.
p.s. i’m not rash enough to say i’m definatly not going to buy it i’ll wait and see what it actually is first, but i do think if it does turn out to be something that interests me the announcement was handled attrociously at the very least.
02/06/2009 at 00:56 Serondal says:
That is what the angry is about at the most base level, you feel like you’re getting ripped off for a game you baught just because a sequal is coming out so soon. Many people HAVE stated (EA much) Ect which is to imply Valve is getting greedy.
Just because a new game is coming out doesn’t mean they won’t support L4D any more either. Like I believe I said in an post before they’ll probably add all of the upgrades to L4D 2 to L4D in time , improving the director and the gore ect. The two games are in two diffrent settings, they can exist at the same time. Also a cross-over level would be awesome with 8 players. (maybe even 4 o 5 cross over campaigns that lead up to a story that explains where the infected game from ect)
02/06/2009 at 00:56 Seth says:
L4D was Valve’s first big success with the highschool X-Box crowd, and I personally hope they milk the hell out of the franchise to fund the other stuff they make that I care more about.
02/06/2009 at 00:57 John Walker says:
WilPal – impressive conspiracy theories, but rather spoiled by my having played it. It was announced today because today was the big Microsoft conference, during which they revealed this for PC and 360.
They could well have surprises lined up – I genuinely have no idea – but this is of course a real game.
02/06/2009 at 00:58 The Sombrero Kid says:
since doom is basically a wolfenstien mod and quake is just doom with a fancy renderer and half life is just the quake engine and the source engine was based of the gold source engine that makes all source games mods!
lmao
seriously cod4/5 is closer to a mod than l4d, not even mentioning the fact that those games are staler than my ex-flatemates feet, and people still buy cod4 for £40!
02/06/2009 at 00:58 Post Maker says:
Everybody shut up; no one cares what anyone else has to say.
No one is right.
Everyone is wrong.
02/06/2009 at 00:59 kyrieee says:
John Walker: READ
http://www.videogamer.com/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html
If anyone had said 6 months ago Valve were doing this nobody would have believed them.
02/06/2009 at 00:59 Gorgeras says:
The difference Serondal, is that EA and others have not made the claims that Valve did.
Fell free to make a list from Kyrieee’s post and make a note of which of those things have been delivered and compare them with all the stuff that’s Left4Dead will never get. Bare in mind at the same time that the sequel will make what little will be delivered *obsolete*.
02/06/2009 at 01:00 Seth says:
Really hoping there’s some Episode 3 news out of this.
02/06/2009 at 01:01 Serondal says:
@Post Maker = Especially you
02/06/2009 at 01:03 qrter says:
Hm. I think uncomprehensively splitting info over two articles (two different media, even) might be why blood is weeping from this comment thread.
02/06/2009 at 01:09 Taill4f4r says:
Do you think they’ll have a Plants vs Zombies bonus round?
Zombies with buckets on their heads, American football zombies, carrying doors, bungee jumping…etc, etc. I may buy it then.
02/06/2009 at 01:09 Gorgeras says:
Or there might actually be good reasons for it. What is said about them beginning work on this the day after Left 4 Dead was ‘finished’(we all know it wasn’t finished) is completely at odds with what they said their plans for it were.
02/06/2009 at 01:16 Larington says:
Its a shame, you see, most sequels happen purely because a publisher wants more money. In this case, Valve wants to make a sequel because of masses of potential and excitement for what they can do for the follow-up.
Meanwhile, the fans, suffering from a bad case of gameritus-entitlus, are more interested in what they want from Valve, rather than what Valve thinks it can offer its fans.
What a shame.
02/06/2009 at 01:24 Bobic says:
I want to make an “uncle phil” voicepack for the big guy
02/06/2009 at 01:30 SilverSauce says:
This should be a download you can get on Live. Instead of shelling out 60 more dollars on a game whose levels I’m going to beat in a day.
02/06/2009 at 01:33 BooleanBob says:
Anyone else take one look at Coach and think
if I say it ONE MORE TIME
02/06/2009 at 01:35 armless says:
This is awesome news. I hope they can keep left 4 dead interesting until this comes out, and then keep the new one interesting until they decide to make a third. That would be the first time in history iv played a game that has kept me playing consistently until a sequel has arrived. I hope the new game has a mode harder than expert for l4dead, it was hard but it was fairly easy to beat if u had a good team.
I reckon a player controlled director might be fun too.
02/06/2009 at 01:37 Demikaze says:
I think I agree with Larington (and it may be due to a love of Valve and the belief that they can do no wrong). They realised the potential of L4D and how brilliantly its (pretty much untested) mechanics worked, and set about improving it. And then the community crucifies them for it.
We’ve seen five minutes of gameplay, we have no idea of price structure, availability, if it’ll be part of a HL Ep3 Purple box, nothing! :). All we know is that a fantastic game is getting a little more fantastic. At the moment, from the briefest of gameplay videos, yes, certain assets seemed to be re-used and it’s quite familiar – the vibe is more mod/expansion that true stand-alone sequel – but when was that ever clarified? Maybe that will be acknowledged in a few months time or maybe it’ll all have taken a massive overhaul. My point is that this sort of indignation is kind of pointless at this time. I’m excited beyond words – L4D has kept me enthralled for months, far more than any game has in the last ten years or so. More of the same – or a huge improvement – regardless, it’s going to be brilliant.
02/06/2009 at 01:43 Gorgeras says:
No Larington, no. It’s this:
Valve intends to support hotly anticipated zombie survival shooter Left 4 Dead post-release with new characters, new maps, new achievements and new weapons in order to grow the community, Gabe Newell has revealed.
Speaking to VideoGamer.com at Leipzig Games Convention, the Valve co-founder and managing director said the developer intended to follow a similar downloadable content policy as it has with Team Fortress 2.
Left 4 Dead, set for release on PC and Xbox 360 on November 21 in Europe, is primarily a four-player cooperative game that sees a group of Survivors battle through four ‘Movies’ and against 28 Days Later-style zombies called The Infected.
Newell said that Valve’s support of the game post-launch will be essential for growing the community.
He said: “One of the things that we’re doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service. So if you look at Team Fortress 2, one of things that’s really helped grow the community is the continuous updates, where we release new maps, new character classes, new unlockables, new weapons. And we tell the stories about the characters, like the meet the sniper, or meet the sandwich. And that ongoing delivery of content really seems to grow the community.
“So each time we’ve released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we’ve seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we’ll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we’ll have the initial release and then we’ll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that’s the way you continue to grow a community over time.”
02/06/2009 at 01:48 wcaypahwat says:
Well, you know… they could have just made it an xbox360 exclusive.
None of us would be upset then. Right?
02/06/2009 at 01:52 sean says:
Is it two players like the first one, or can you play with four people?
02/06/2009 at 01:53 Dominic White says:
Well, looking at this thread, I’d imagine the lesson Valve is learning is ‘Don’t let fans build up a sense of entitlement’. Giving people stuff for free only earns you positive karma so long as you keep it up until the end of time.
I imagine John Walker with face in hands, occasionally peeking between his fingers at this festival of angry internet men. Yes, this is your readership, Mr Walker. Treat them well – the moment you don’t, they’ll eat you alive.
02/06/2009 at 01:55 Justin says:
People are complaining about Valve releasing a sequel too soon. We’ve gone through the looking glass!
Anyway, it looks neat. I want to see the gameplay videos. Left 4 Dead 1 doesn’t look that exciting from screenshots – it’s the gameplay experience itself that works as the payoff, and I bet that will be the case with the sequel.
02/06/2009 at 01:55 pkt-zer0 says:
“Gameritus-entitlus”? When people are just expecting Valve to deliver on what they actually promised? …Bah.
02/06/2009 at 02:02 WilPal says:
Heya John :)
My question to you is – how do you know they aren’t fooling you too?
It would only take a few weeks to modify left4dead into a version that looks like this, and the more media they have believing this is a real game, the bigger the surprise is at E3.
02/06/2009 at 02:03 MikeBiggs says:
Mehh, posted a little rant about the games excellent value for money. Decided against it. It’s probably been said before.
Instead:
Go Valve! Tell a new Story! Do what you like, I trust you!
Don’t let me down
That is all.
02/06/2009 at 02:09 Alvar Hanso says:
NOTE: This comment is just a bunch of my thoughts assembled into a somewhat haphazard paragraph.
I am surprised that the game is coming out so soon. Only a little more than a year after Oct. 28, there’s going to be another one already? The setting seems interesting, to say the least, especially the whole “it is not night” part of it. Also- the gore in combination with a chainsaw and more
vampireszombies. That will RULE. I look forward to seeing how this turns out.02/06/2009 at 02:10 Darth Benedict says:
Should have been called Left 4 Dead: 2 Many Zombies
02/06/2009 at 02:12 MikeBiggs says:
@Dominic White
I think the reason we’re full of AIM tonight is because a google for “Left 4 Dead 2″ shows RPS as the first result. So everyone who heard even a whisper of L4D2 probably came here first to check it out!
02/06/2009 at 02:13 Z says:
I wonder if L4D2 will feature a cocaine lab or two… DON’T SHOOT THE BARRELS THEY’RE FULL OF ETH–!
02/06/2009 at 02:22 I Am Disappointed says:
Guys, look here. Valve never said that they wouldn’t stop making more content for the original. I am a fan of Valve and you guys shouldn’t be so quick to abandon them because they made a great sequel in such short time. I will be there to buy L4D2 when it comes out and I will still play the original L4D. Because, even if the sequel is out, Bill, Francis and Louis are like my brothers and Zoey is like my sister. They just made this game for those who want it. And I am one of those people. As for the frying pan, it will provide some humor in a world that desperately needs it, and the day time missions, if you can have the same effect in the day as you do at night, that is true fear.
02/06/2009 at 02:25 Rose says:
“Guys, look here. Valve never said that they wouldn’t stop making more content for the original.”
But doing so is pointless given it will be obselete and the majority of the community will shift to the newer version despite their threats. Even if you’ll play the old version(probably rarely) most people won’t. Given Valve have not kept good on their promise thus far, in the light of this announcement, there is no reason to presume they will.
Valve broke their promise, and it’s not about “butthurt whiners” but deluded fanboys.
02/06/2009 at 02:28 DerangedStoat says:
Call me an optimist, but could this all be playing into Valves hands?
It could be that they are intentionally throwing the term ‘sequel’ around knowing that everyone will assume that it’s going to cost the same price as a new game, since that’s generally the rule of thumb for sequels.
Now they haven’t specifically mentioned a price at all yet (and although I will admit it’s likely too early for them to do that), can you imagine the Valve-love-in that’s going to happen when they announce in a few months that it will be cheap/free!?
L4D2 may well be a content patch title, a bit like Blizzard creates for WoW content updates, reflecting Valves feelings that the patch really is a huge overhaul of L4D.
Like I said, optimistic, but Valve has proved time and again, that they don’t do things like other companies…
02/06/2009 at 02:28 Levictus says:
I’ll wait till we get more information about this release, but I am definitely not buying L4D2 at launch, might buy it in a few months if the price is right.
My guess is that Valve are doing this in order to get more sales from their Xbox user base. I think L4D is one of the first Valve games that got really big on consoles. So now they have to continue releasing sequels every year to milk the Xbox users.
Valve can do whatever they want, I guess the good thing is that it leaves opportunity for other companies to take their place and provide the kind of experience we all want.
02/06/2009 at 02:30 Rose says:
“can you imagine the Valve-love-in that’s going to happen when they announce in a few months that it will be cheap/free!?”
If they do, it’ll probably be damage control.
While we expect better from valve, recently a sudden decline isn’t beyond them either due to things like HLE:3, lack of L4D support, and the overall shoddiness of some of the TF2 updates. I’ve been fairly critical of Valve for a while now.
02/06/2009 at 02:31 Wirbelwind says:
Don’t get your hopes up Deranged Stoat, it’s also being released as a stand alone title for Xbox 360. Wouldn’t make much sense for it to be priced even cheaper than the original in that regard.
Not sure what their PC plans are, I hope they integrate both games into one client.
02/06/2009 at 02:31 Clovis says:
Why won’t someone at RPS stop the madness of this thread!!
02/06/2009 at 02:39 Leeks! says:
*Senseless, inconsolable shrieking a la Louis on fire.*
02/06/2009 at 02:42 bansama says:
Sorry, but I found the original L4D to be mind-numbingly boring after only 5 hours or so. So I’m really just not interested in this at all. I’d far rather have HL2 EP3.
02/06/2009 at 02:43 Hiro Protagonist says:
Alright, seriously, you people are acting like this is the only game in the world to do this. Are you trying to disappoint yourselves? Look at other games series that have made the same move, and they did well, fanboys or not. Halo, Call of Duty, Gears of War, Most of the Mario and Sonic series. While the time span is different, most of these games feature just that, new weapons, enemies, and a new campaign, and they do just fine, but Left 4 Dead does it, and you all whine about it? Get with the times, if it sells, why bother making it free? Sure, Valve was nice enough with Team Fortress 2 updates, but they can’t finance a game company on fanboy support alone. That’s not how the world works. Everyone needs money, and this is an easy way to get it.
Valve probably has been pressured or influenced by EA to dish out more games, but let’s look at Gears 2 and Halo 3 as an example and compare. New Campaign? Check. New Weapons? Check. New way of killing something (Chainsaw Duel, Incendiary Ammo, Equipment)? Check. New Enemies? Check. Timespan? Not a lot of difference. You people are lying to yourselves in a simple Internet Tough Guy routine. The people being trolled here is clearly people like you, so ignorant to other games and their creators that you have alienated L4D as the only game in the world.
Finally, Valve doesn’t care about what people think on random websites they probably don’t even know exists. You might as well be dousing a fire out with gasoline. We have to face the truth that people can’t change what is already in motion without bringing it out clearly to Valve. You would have to actually attempt to talk to them about the game.
Now, before you all rage and hate me for the rest of your Internet existence, Think very clearly about this. I am only saying the hurtful truth about the gaming industry, and you might have to accept that (or be blindly ignoring me and prove my point). You will all be playing L4D2 when it comes out, unaware of your slander here. Look again at Halo 3, everyone whined about it’s new multiplayer addons, the melee system, and the limited abilities with Forge, and guess what? They’re all playing Halo 3, with no care in the world. Grow up people, sit down, be quiet, and enjoy the games that without support wouldn’t even exist for you to rant about.
02/06/2009 at 02:46 runcrash says:
Still, the one question I have for Valve is: Why did they pull Kim Swift so late from competition at GDC?
02/06/2009 at 02:46 DigitalSignalX says:
Looks good, except for that hideous shirt.
However, I kinda wish instead of expanding the game’s existing elements with a sequel, this should be offered as a DLC, patching and adding onto the existing title.
A new LFD2 then could be a much larger narrative squad based action/RPG-ish sorta thing revolving around a campaign ala half-life. Then they could take all the cool things about LFD and make it into a much longer, story driven frightener on rails.
Probably in the minority there though.
02/06/2009 at 02:53 nill says:
Reads and looks like an expansion.
People had expectations and paid good money for the first one. Obviously, they’re not feeling they’re getting their money’s worth with this deal. If they had, they would’ve been happy — I’m sure they love happiness as much as anyone.
The sequel does sound like fun though, no doubt about that.
02/06/2009 at 02:56 g-eJ says:
“We’re still going to continue to update L4D 1…community maps will instantly work with L4D 2″ (so no reason for people to put off making community maps now)
Quoted from the podcast.
02/06/2009 at 03:02 NickNab says:
When I heard “L4D2″ from my brother, the first I thought was, Boy that’s a crappy expansion name.
It’s a sequel.
Not expansion.
It hurt, and I looked at the trailer. Looks cool, melee weps, another special inf (that’s been announced). Then Fire ammo?
Really? C’mon. Let me shoot your foot so your face will burst in flames. This isn’t about realism, i mean it’s a game about zombies. But bullets that create a fire?…
And the the melee weps. Well, Chainsaw. Understandable and AWESOME. A Bat? TF2 Like, but still very real. A?…
Frying pan? Who are you now, princess peach? I mean Peach’s voice and Zoey’s are the same person… But Really?
Let’s get some more update on L4D1 before we pull this stuff Valve. And get the SDK up and running.
02/06/2009 at 03:04 Styngent says:
This is typical Valve unfortunately, or so it seems more and more. Role out the quick buck option then move on to the next project, or maybe god forbid they finish they’re TF2 updating crusade or bring out, dare I say it, the next saga to their episodic half life sequels.
But no I guess it seems only logical to repackage what is simply a bundle of updated content for a game they released only a few months ago as a price tag follow up.
Guess I’ll have to wait that little bit longer for that HL2dm update!
02/06/2009 at 03:09 NickNab says:
Here’s an idea for L4D3…
The original 4 survivors meet this colorful crew…
L8D!
02/06/2009 at 03:18 MD says:
A sequel so soon? Does this mean that the first game will be….. LEFT FOR DEAD???
Also: L2ft4Dead.
I’ll be here all week!
02/06/2009 at 03:29 Hiro Protagonist says:
It would be nice, just to catch idiots, and even then, mods or admins would key on anyways. True, not a real importance, but more or less a convenience.
02/06/2009 at 03:30 Wazzle says:
Wow, anger? Really? I think this game is going to be awesome. Frankly I’m surprised in a good way at Valve’s quickness to make the game, seeing as it took about 8 months between heavy/scout update (right?)
Also, in response to one of the earliest comments about the original being overshadowed by the new release… I think that if Valve has a clever marketing department (which they very obviously do), they will reduce the price of the original, probably down to $20, about a month before the release of 2. This will increase revenue on the original, pre-order revenue due to hype, release revenue due to loyal fans who have played the first AND hype… and also, if they keep the price down, it will be a cheap, excellent, replayable Valve game that people will want to buy. This is going to make them landfills of money if they play it right.
02/06/2009 at 03:34 megan says:
this is cool and i’m very excited….but i have one bone to pick….
WHY IS IT ONLY ONE GIRL AGAIN???!!!! *pant**pant**pant*
seriously that flippin ticks me off. us girls can kick ass. so in a real situation like this, more than one girl would have survived. it was forgivable in the first L4D but only one girl in the second one too? jeez
02/06/2009 at 03:37 Vinraith says:
I think the rage is understandable. L4D was, let’s face it, somewhat light on content. It wasn’t unreasonable to hope for a few more free content expansions, and maybe a paid expansion, before we moved on to a new game.
As it stands, I’m concerned that this will undercut community development for L4D, and inevitably reduce the Valve-side support for it as well. In short, it comes across as a replacement for a game that’s relatively new (and notably still full price), that’s not going to play well in most circles.
For my part, I enjoyed L4D for awhile before it got repetitive for lack of maps. I got it for $25 on sale, and am content that I got my money’s worth, but it’s no Half life or Portal (or pre-weirdness TF2). I can’t say I’m chomping at the bit for L4D2, but I’m not going to swear it off on principle either. In reality, I’ll doubtless pick it up once the price comes down to an acceptable level (something in the $20 or less range).
02/06/2009 at 03:38 Hiro Protagonist says:
“WHY IS IT ONLY ONE GIRL AGAIN???!!!!”
It’s just the developers being all around a little biased in game production. Since they are under the idea that more guys play games than girls, they just make a clear majority of the survivors male to appeal to that. Even then, most of the time when a girl character is in game, it’s really for a derogatory purpose of being a love interest or something else for the male gamers to look at, I’m glad Valve hasn’t done that too much with L4D, but they do hint to some of this in-game.
02/06/2009 at 03:39 Vinraith says:
@megan
There’s a (somewhat silly) retiscence on the part of male gamers to play female characters (especially among the FPS crowd). The game’s player base is very male dominant, obviously, so more than one female character would be an unwise move on Valve’s part. I don’t think it’s supposed to be a comment on the demographics of an actual zombie apocalypse.
02/06/2009 at 03:41 noom says:
Jesus. So much completely baseless outrage. I feel like I’m reading the Daily Mail.
02/06/2009 at 03:45 JonFitt says:
http://www.gamesradar.com/video/v-2009060112052240046
The trailer does make it look awesome.
02/06/2009 at 03:46 MeestaNob! says:
I said this in the podcast thread:
I’d just like to add to that and say the only way this will even be remotely worth the money is if it comes with Episode 3 as part of a mini Orange box.
02/06/2009 at 03:46 Tarev says:
@noom
I concur. Its especially odd, as most of the outrage stems from a distressingly large number of assumptions, namely that dlc for left 4 dead is being abanoned and that left 4 dead 2 is a full priced game. This level of acrimony is excessive, all things considered.
02/06/2009 at 03:49 Gaz says:
Eh, I’m going to wait for more information for this one. The initial release info was good, but I want to know more. It does sound interesting though and i have this thing for collecting zombie games.
And apparently the infection allows you to ignore having 10-25% of your body mass gone.
02/06/2009 at 03:50 Hiro Protagonist says:
“L4D was, let’s face it, somewhat light on content.”
I do see your point. While the game itself was left a little unpolished in feel, I do think that this would be remedied by a simple addon, and then, a sequel will be another cash cow, and we’ll forget all about L4D. True with the undermining of the community development, this is only inevitable with all games. Valve itself may be unharmed, but that fans will be scarred by their own actions. Many of the mods for L4D may look nice now, but face it, community mods barely flourish or come into public play, as many are simply canceled and left to rot thanks to lazy developers. I have never truly believed in any development community.
Understandably, all games become boring after some time of play, after realizing that all games do the exact same thing with enough play. I often find myself finding new ways to play a game in order to entertain myself, such as trying to beat a level on my own, or playing as infected in singleplayer to add a new style of play. It often later devolves into what the community can make of the game after all else is exhausted. As an example, Halo has always been keeping people playing because its custom settings in multiplayer and the new Forge has let people engineer their own levels and games within that game, and that’s why we still play Halo, understandably.
02/06/2009 at 04:07 vicx says:
Yeah they could have some fun with two girls – it would open up another dimension for apt and timely remarks.
02/06/2009 at 04:10 kevin says:
yay! 2 black people now! since there was 1 in the whole entire game for the first LEFT 4 DEAD!!!!
02/06/2009 at 04:13 Ozzie says:
Argument: Valve will still release updates for L4D1, despite the announcement of the sequel.
Counter-argument: But it doesn’t matter, since no one will play the first part then anymore, because the sequel will be bigger, better and have more features. And to make it even worse, it…it will…*sob*…c-cost…*sniff*MONEY!! *cries*
Counter-counter-argument: So it’s not the lack of free content you’re complaining about, but the “danger” of a forthcoming sequel. Okay, Valve somehow made you feel entitled about free content, but where did they promise that they will never ever make a sequel to L4D?
You actually bitch about a great thing Valve is doing for us gamers.
02/06/2009 at 04:13 Gaz says:
“I don’t hate vests”
02/06/2009 at 04:19 Leeks! says:
Ender–
I probably don’t have to, but I’m going to point out the irony in your calling all gamers “whiney bitches” [sic].
The one legitimate complaint that’s recurring here is that many people bought the original L4D based partly on goodwill for Valve as a developer. Intentional or not, they’ve built a certain ethos for themselves with their suburb post-release content patching (mostly for TF2). In other words, they’ve generated the idea that, when you buy a Valve game, a big part of what you’re paying for is to be a part of the community of players for that game–a community that, at this point, it’s tacitly understood Valve will help to cultivate. I think it’s quite fair to say that many people bought L4D on this promise, and I sympathize with those who feel disappointed.
That said, I thought L4D was a terrific game, and worth every penny as it was, right out of the box. Though I’m sad its potential as a TF2-killing community-based online game is (probably) being abandoned, I’m thrilled there’s a new Valve game–and a new iteration of an IP I love, to boot. However, if it turns out that the “more cohesive narrative” is just so much PR-gasbagging and the only real additions are cosmetic, I’ll grab my torch and pitchfork to march to Gabe Newell’s house with everyone else.
02/06/2009 at 04:21 Adam says:
makes we wish i wouldn’t have bought L4D an stuck with zombie panic source -which has melee weapons :(
02/06/2009 at 04:22 Observer says:
It seems that they have decided that adding all of the content that would expand the original to its full potential would be to great of a leap to fix in support and updates alone. Probably the right decision, because the real mistake was in the first game. They didn’t realize how great an idea they had, so now they are releasing what the first game should have been as a seamless package instead of using half-baked patches to cover things they were brushed over in the original.
It sucks to have to buy it again, but sometimes good things come at a cost. And the first game still gave its moneys worth in play when compared to other products on the market.
02/06/2009 at 04:35 Walter says:
Don’t think I will be buying this. Not because I doubt it’s quality or think it’s too soon but because I really didn’t enjoy the the first game all that much. It was too reliant on having friends to play with.
I was expecting news on HL2:EP3 and I still am. Maybe something on Portal 2. What’s with southern guys being con-artists?
02/06/2009 at 05:08 sigma83 says:
‘WHY IS IT ONLY ONE GIRL AGAIN???!!!!’
I agree. Since 60% of the population is female, we should have 2.4 female characters.
So the lineup will go Laura, Alexis, Tony, and Richard Simmons
02/06/2009 at 05:12 sigma83 says:
Also, Re: the sense of undeserved entitlement coming off some (emphasis on SOME) of the above posters, I paraphrase Neil Gaiman:
Valve is not your bitch.
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html
02/06/2009 at 05:30 Fumarole says:
Thank you for that link that few will read sigma83.
02/06/2009 at 05:30 nb00t says:
“Coming off the back of the project, we were told by various Valve developers, people we bursting with ideas of where to take the game next. So they went right there.”
Valve is not the type of company that would put out a bad product. The fact that the writer mentions the fact that they were ‘bursting with ideas’ shows that Valve think that they’re onto good… which is something you realize if you actually take the time to play L4D extensively. It’s the single most original game concept in YEARS and has an unbelievable amount of potential… and theyre going to unlock that potential.
02/06/2009 at 05:33 Yuhe says:
Valve has not announced a price for L4D 2. And they have said that they will continue to release new content for the first L4D. For all we know, L4D 2 would be $20, or come bundled with some other games that are yet to be revealed. I’m willing to bet that if Half-Life 2: Episode 3 is revealed later on, and Valve says that it would be bundled alongside L4D 2, people would start taking back their hatred. It is too soon to assume that Valve has suddenly decided to milk the L4D franchise, considering that this game is not out yet, and I’m sure everyone here remembers how long HL2 was delayed.
02/06/2009 at 05:36 bushidogamer says:
I never payed yearly for Madden, I’m not paying for this. They balanced out the original game so much that it feels monotonous to play.
When Valve got Kim Swift to step down from a panel at GDC, that turned me off of them entirely. They waited until the last day to pull her.
I don’t care how awesome they say it’ll be. The things people say can be entirely different from reality so Valve isn’t getting any of my sexy dollars anymore.
02/06/2009 at 05:42 Mad Doc MacRae says:
I hate vans.
I hate planes.
I hate hospitals… and doctors, and lawyers, and cops…
02/06/2009 at 05:44 TCM says:
Whoo, it’s coming fast. At first I wondered why they didn’t simply go TF2 style with largescale updates, but this almost looks like a whole different game.
…I really will miss the old cast though. “Grabbin peels” indeed, Louis.
02/06/2009 at 05:44 matt says:
promising but beyond annoying. I will not be buying this, especially if it’s going to be another 40 bucks. I mean, it’s a great game, but WTF? the current one needs more support and it sounds like they’ll be dropping it like an unwanted stepchild.
02/06/2009 at 05:49 TCM says:
As far as “VALVE HAS BETRAYED US BY RELEASING A SEQUEL” goes…
How do you know L4D classic won’t be getting support? Among other things, it now has full custom map support, which is years of longevity in it of itself. IMO, it was a PR gaffe to call this L4D 2, as it’s taking a number of approaches differently from L4D 1, and ideally, both will be supported for years to come.
02/06/2009 at 05:50 Walter says:
@Matt: Go listen to the podcast!
02/06/2009 at 05:50 Ashyen says:
“Wah! I’m a gamer who liked Left 4 Dead! They’re releasing a sequel which seems similar, so I’m gonna whine about it and assume they’ll stop releasing additions for Left 4 Dead! Wah!”
Seriously. Grow. Up. You sound like a bunch of babies.
02/06/2009 at 05:52 andrew says:
This is insane. Why are you so upset over this? DLC for the original would’ve been good. But it won’t have the enhanced AI like this one will. nor will it have half the potential the sequel will have. As for people thinking this game being too soon I have to say that GTA Vice City was released one year after GTA3 and Vice City was in every way a improvement over the original. I understand you feel gipped but this doesn’t mean there won’t have any DLC at all. It’s just a wild assumption. That’s my two-cents
02/06/2009 at 06:02 Nik Daum says:
Warning: tangential!
Was anyone hoping that Left4Dead was just a tease to set up a real game called Right 4 Life, a political conservative game about a group of 4 anti-abortion activists fighting their way out of a city full of people having abortions?
02/06/2009 at 06:02 Andthensobecause says:
I’m boycotting Valve until they stop making games.
02/06/2009 at 06:03 oddbob says:
Man, I can’t believe we’re getting away from the utterly awesome fact that they’ve made a game where you can hit zombies with a frying pan.
That’s amazing.
I’m going to be at the top of a flight of stairs whopping those infected till I’ve got a nice big mound of them, all decked out with teflon dents in their foreheads.
02/06/2009 at 06:06 wheres_my_gun says:
the sequel will seriously disrupt the community. valve EXPLICITLY STATED that it would deliver TF2-style updates. THAT is why people feel entitled. the agreement was ‘pay us for this game, and we’ll deliver updates like we do with tf2.’ OF COURSE people are upset that they will have to buy another game now or stay behind as valve de-values the game by selling a slightly cooler version of it as a separate title.
expecting something that you have been flat out told to expect is not a morally culpable ‘sense of entitlement’ by any stretch.
I actually didn’t buy this game at release because 50$ seemed like a lot for an MP-only game. i planned to wait until more content was released and now i’ll be skipping the game entirely. i’m not angry by any stretch but this will make me more cautious about buying from valve (though of course portal 2 and ep3 are a given)
02/06/2009 at 06:06 SuperNashwan says:
If this actually comes out in November I’ll eat Gabe Newell’s weight in hats. Also it should clearly be called Left 4 Dead Too, ironically inverting the original substitution. Or 2222 4 2222 of course.
02/06/2009 at 06:08 TCM says:
Again, everyone assumes L4D 1 is being dropped like a hot potato.
If anything, I’d assume the opposite, but you know, it’s cool. Judge a game development company not by its history, but by a single recent game announcement of a game that we have very little knowledge of, and those who have played enjoy. Whatever, it’s not my place to judge your incredibly stupid opinions.
>_>
02/06/2009 at 06:13 Psychopomp says:
@Everyone with a sense of entitlement
SHUT
THE
FUCK
UP
Valve is trying to deliver far more content than we could ever dream of in DLC. This is worth $50.
My main concern is “ONE FUCKING YEAR?”
Someone show me ONE great modern FPS made with a 12 month dev cycle.
12 months is simply NOT enough time to:
1.Prototype new maps
2.Balance and tweak them to hell and back
3.Write thousands of lines of dialogue
4.Record said dialogue
5.Code them into the conversation system
6.Balance maps for Versus mode
7.Deliver all the other things they’re promising
There’s a reason 2 years is normally considered the bare minimum for making a game.
And if I am proving wrong, well halle-fucking-lujah.
Until them, I am convinced L4D2 is going to be rushed shit.
Edit:
@John
Then go play CoD, we’ll be over here laughing at your ass.
02/06/2009 at 06:15 Biz says:
it’s a few new maps to the same game and a couple other tweaks…
you know what’s coming. it’s not that hard to do either
02/06/2009 at 06:15 TCM says:
Valve time says the release date will actually be in 2011.
02/06/2009 at 06:15 Walter says:
@wheres_my_gun: Where does it say not to expect “TF2-style” updates anymore? How do we know the new “Director” won’t be worked into the first game?
What is it people exactly want from a sequel? A crappier shorter game? Should all sequels just be expansion packs? Because I always thought a sequal was supposed to take everything that was good about the first part and build on it. Make it bigger and better.
02/06/2009 at 06:18 wheres_my_gun says:
@TCM – you may be right, but like I said, the release of a sequel actively de-values the original game by siphoning off a large portion of new players and a significant portion of currently active players and modders.
Imagine previews for TF3 popping up everywhere just as the major class updates started rolling out in TF2. you’re reading about completely new gameplay mechanics in previews, now suddenly a new gun doesn’t seem so cool.
maybe gamers should all just ‘grow up’ or maybe someone in the business of entertainment should understand how subjective the value of their products actually is, and how management of expectations is a part of conveying that value.
i do think valve can make this work depending on how this is sold however. without that info it’s hard to know how this will affect the l4d community.
02/06/2009 at 06:26 andrew says:
@Psychopomp
Like I stated GTA3 and Vice City were released one year of each other. Granted it’s not FPS but still if GTA can pull this off why can’t L4D?
02/06/2009 at 06:28 TCM says:
Anyhow, notes:
L4D2 apparently will support the L4D1 SDK. And all L4D1 community created content, out of the box.
The old L4D content may be included in L4D2. Reworked to the theme, maybe?
Judging by these, it’s within the cone of possibility that L4D2′s campaigns might be worked to fit L4D1, and the two will exist alongside each other with similar content but different mechanics. Or Valve will offer a deal to those who bought L4D1, maybe?
02/06/2009 at 06:34 wheres_my_gun says:
@andrew – the reasons people are upset in this case are specific to multiplayer games. People aren’t acting out of an irrational hatred of sequels, but reacting to the negative effect they predict (correctly or incorrectly) this will have on the experience they have when they fire up the game they already bought.
02/06/2009 at 06:37 TCM says:
If so many people are planning to boycott L4D2 (the steam forums look like somebody took all the napalm in the world and nuked it for good measure), there will certainly be plenty left playing L4D1.
02/06/2009 at 06:38 Psychopomp says:
@andrew
Okay, proven a bit wrong.
I still stand by my other statements though.
02/06/2009 at 06:48 Prospero424 says:
All I wanted was one more full map/campaign for L4D. That’s all. One. And what’s more, that was the deliberate impression they wanted people to infer from various press releases on L4D commenting on future plans: that at least one more full campaign was forthcoming.
Anyone saying they didn’t set that expectation is FULL OF IT. And don’t tell me the single-”room” lighthouse level somehow fulfills that expectation. It doesn’t. Survival mode is a nice bonus, though.
L4D2 looks great, and I can’t wait to play it. I certainly don’t begrudge them coming out with a sequel so quickly, and the new features do look to warrant a full sequel.
However, I don’t see how one saying that they’re disappointed that Valve almost certainly won’t be releasing even ONE official, full map/campaign after, as I said, that expectation was deliberately set by their marketing people can reasonable or honestly be called “whining”. Setting that expectation was Valve’s mistake, and trying to foist the blame for the natural reaction of fans to this onto the fans themselves is just an exercise in sycophancy.
EVERYBODY I know who has been playing this game has been uttering some variation of “I can’t wait ’til they release the next campaign” over the past couple of months. Claiming that that all of these people have a “sense of entitlement” for that is ridiculous, and is an accusation I would hope at least Valve have the good sense not to repeat.
L4D is still a fantastic game, L4D2 will still be awesome, and Valve is still by far my favorite developer, but this really will cause resentment for perfectly rational reasons, and it will cause at least some to hesitate to shell out $50 for primarily online-only games from Valve in the future.
02/06/2009 at 06:51 TCM says:
Hey guys, this is hilarious.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott
02/06/2009 at 07:02 Andthensobecause says:
When my sister was born, my parents stopped talking to me. Then, all my friends started playing with her because she was still cute and pudgy. I never ate cookies again.
02/06/2009 at 07:05 TCM says:
Your sister was free, though.
02/06/2009 at 07:34 widget says:
I’ m going to buy this and I’m going to have fun playing it but I’m going to feel very good about it. The amount of content in L4D is pretty lite to say the least and this looks like its going to be pretty similar. Can we just call this Left 4 Dead 2010?
02/06/2009 at 07:43 teo says:
Since when has anyone EVER been positive about companies turning out sequels on a one year basis? Why should it be any different when Valve does it?
02/06/2009 at 07:56 Lorc says:
I’ve mellowed after listening to the podcast. I’m not annoyed any more, just a little disappointed. I guess the problem is that, for all that I recognised L4D’s quality and polish, it wasn’t a game that hit my bullseye like (say) TF2 or portal. I’d been hoping for an update to add a little something else to it so that I could honestly say I was in love.
The more I think about it, the more a full-fledged sequel seems the right right way to go about things.
It’d still be nice if we see some of the new bosses, weapons and features patched into L4D1 though.
02/06/2009 at 07:58 Mellis Amada says:
Oh nice one Valve. No new content for the old game and just release this basically brand spanking new one instead.
If they charge the 40 quid I paid for L4D then I’m not buying this. Not only are some of the levels in the daytime which pretty much ruins the atmosphere but these new characters look too comical to be taken seriously. The shor skinny bloke looks like a scout from TF2 and the big fat black guy looks really, really damn stupid.
02/06/2009 at 08:06 Mellis Amada says:
@Psychopomp
“Valve is trying to deliver far more content than we could ever dream of in DLC. This is worth $50.”
What do you mean? There’s not limit to what they could integrate into downloadable content. New models, maps, characters, everything could be added. Instead we have to pay £40 for what is a really heavily modded version of the first game.
02/06/2009 at 08:09 valis says:
I’ve got well over 100 hours of play on the current L4D (maybe 1.5x that even) and don’t see it as ‘hardly any content’. With just the versus & co-op content you have 20 ‘maps’ split into 5 campaigns, and tweaked independantly for each gametype. Toss in the Survival game-mode and you’ve got enough content creation time in the DLC to dwarf each TF2 ‘update’ (tf2 maps are considerably smaller and all but the last brought only 1 or 2 maps with 1 character upgrade.)
The only thing ‘missing’ from L4D for me right now is lobby support for user generated content, but that’s coming soon and the SDK is (finally) out there. I’ve bought THREE copies of the game (one for me, one for the wife and one for a friend) and we’ve all gotten enough laughter and enjoyment from it that I don’t feel ‘slighted’ in the least (2 of those copies were bought at launch for full price even.)
I know a lot of people with older machines that enjoy the current game for how well it runs compared to other current generation titles. So I have little doubt that user created content will be coming for some time to come, and suspect that the new game will raise the bar for system specs beyond what many of the current install base will be ready for. This is usually a good reason for branding the next game as being a separate purchase, one might hope that somehow the content from the original game makes it in but even if both wind up separate I’m sure I’ll enjoy the new one. Unless your measuring stick for the ‘value’ of content is defined by your local torrent tracker (gimme stuff for free!) I don’t see any cause for complaint.
02/06/2009 at 08:25 Lack_26 says:
Do people realise that they don’t have to buy it?
If you don’t like it then you have the right to not had over your money. Just because the Valve makes a game, it doesn’t mean you have to buy it. L4D: New Orleans, is clearly a game they wanted to make not quite; not quite as serious but bigger and a bit more crazy.
Also, to me, it seems like a long time since L4D and this is more in the vain of Dead-Rising co-op. They’re not demanding your money they’re simply saying ‘look what we had fun making, it;s really quite cool. You can buy it if you want’.
02/06/2009 at 08:25 Kadayi says:
@MeestaNob!
If it was say 2 new campaigns tagged onto the existing setting with a new gun or 2 and maybe a new boss I’d agree with you. However given that this is clearly a much bigger game than the original in both scale and scope (when you look at the facts in detail) I find its a position that really doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. None of the FO3 DLC remotely matches FO3 in scale, likewise GTA: LaTD is barely a 3rd of the length of GTA IV.
I think the big problem for the AIM lies in marketing it as a direct sequel (thus rendering the still fairly recently released existing game redundant in peoples eyes), where as if they promoted it as L4D: New Orleans or L4D: Deep South as a standalone expansion people would be on the whole a lot more forgiving. Certainly from the perspective of what they are adding it qualifies as a new game, but it takes more than new guns, characters and maps in gamers eyes to qualify as a true sequel (generally an engine change is de rigeur). Marketing seriously dropped the ball here.
02/06/2009 at 08:26 Trezoristo says:
Really, this game consitutes to about as much new content, if not more, as the previous game. People honestly expect to get that all for free? Seriously.
Please realize that we know absolutely nothing about pricing, amount of new content, the updating the old game will have, etc, so any outrage at this point really is senseless.
02/06/2009 at 08:34 Shabla says:
So, I guess we can expect Left 4 Dead 3 in 2 years or so, right ?
…
I think that’s way too early, like many other have said, what’s going to happen to L4D now ? I mean, I feel like I bought something cool and learn that something way better will be out the next day.
Anyway, it looks cool, but I certainly won’t preorder this one like I did for L4D…
02/06/2009 at 08:44 Katsumoto says:
We in the UK are waking up now – RPS guys, you may wanna have a scan through these comments to find the racist troll and do what you do best – MODERATE!
Back on topic, this thread is incredibly scary. I paid £25 I think, maybe £20 (what’s all this £40/$50 stuff?! Where did you guys back it from? It certainly wasn’t that much on Steam, was it?!) for a game which I have played almost every week since. Not many other games can claim that much “bang for the buck”. It seems the majority of people complaining just don’t like the game anyway, calling it “unfinished” bla bla, so I don’t see why another game coming out particularly bothers you!
There are hours of fun to be had in L4D as it is, they already have released new content for it and will continue to do so. I’m genuinely baffled at how the announcement of a sequel to a highly loved game could result in such pure OUTRAGE.
02/06/2009 at 08:45 Dolphan says:
I’m loving how despite about 5 people pointing it out, people are still completely missing the part where THEY SAID THEY’RE STILL UPDATING L4D.
02/06/2009 at 08:58 jon_hill987 says:
Well I’m quite upset about this.
Not because I feel I deserve free updates, I couldn’t care less if Valve never made anything new for L4D. No, I am upset because a sequel will significantly reduce the number of players on the first game, probably to the extent that it is not worth owning any more. Valve might as well shut down the L4D master server and say “sorry, did you expect to be playing this in over a years time?”. Yes I bloody did! I spent £20 on the game I want it to last more than 12 months!
02/06/2009 at 09:04 Larington says:
Gameritus-Entitlus. Yes.
This announcement pops up and sure, it was a BIG mistake to call it Left-4-Dead 2, as Kadayi said, but whats the outrage centring on as far as I can tell?
An assumption that because the sequel has been announced, there suddenly won’t be any new content added to the original. Could you at least wait and see if your assumption is true before you rage, please? Is it really that hard to be patient? Or does being on the Internet mean you feel you absolutely MUST crack your knuckles and start typing away at the slightest whiff of having your sensibilities offended?
Also, left 4 dead was not 4 maps, it was 4 campaigns each at least 4 maps long. And of the people who are in this comments thread, I’ve probably played Left 4 Dead the LEAST and I don’t mind this announcement because I can quite clearly see the intention to create something thats inteded to run alongside L4D rather than run against it.
They just really really need to rename it to what it’s supposed to be, rather than calling it what appears to have triggered the sense of paranoia thats rife in this comments thread. Of course, its too late for that now isn’t…
I’m gonna have to take a break from the Internet again, this is just getting beyond now.
02/06/2009 at 09:06 Mike says:
Hey guys, I didn’t check the internet last night, what did I miss?
02/06/2009 at 09:08 Sunolet says:
i am both pissed that they are releasing the game so quickly (whats it been 6-7 months?) and happy that they finally thought and put in some melee weapons in as well as story connecting the stages
02/06/2009 at 09:12 cullnean says:
This is what happens when PC devs make a truck load of cash off of consoles
02/06/2009 at 09:27 CMaster says:
I just want to make a couple of points:
One, while there almost certainly are some angry people out there, a lot of us (including myself) are just arguing we are dissapointed with Valve and that they will no longer get us giving them such benefit of the doubt. I certainly don’t think that anyone is expecting L4D2 to be a bad game – but L4D really is the kind of game that thrives on additional content.
The other – who says that they will stop development of L4D1 content – well, they never really started. They’ve tweaked things a bit, but beyond survival mode and The Last Stand, there hasn’t been anything new. With a new game, either they are likley to settle into a pattern of new games every 12-18 months until they get bored, or there is going to be a demand for fixes and new content for the new game. And no, I haven’t listend to the pod-cast as when the first 3 minutes were 40% introductions and 60% awkward pauses in conversation and the thing lasted 45 minutes, I couldn’t really stomach it.
02/06/2009 at 09:27 AndrewC says:
Hey Mike, I was out chillin away from the net too last night, but i’m guessing nothing much happened in any comments sections, right?
Did you hear Valve announced L4D2? Man that’s pretty cool – I love L4D!
02/06/2009 at 09:30 Ian says:
This is the first time I’ve come to an RPS article that has so many replies even I am unwilling to wade in and get caught up.
My thinkwrites: Haven’t played as much L4D as I should have, but am still excited. Chainsaw!
02/06/2009 at 09:36 Poublip says:
Left 4 dead box still is 50 euros here. It sold well, indeed. Especially thanks to enthusiastic internet journalists, who sold us this game as a “maybe .. a bit too short with four campains only, but do not consider it, there is going to be free DLC on an monthly basis ! thumbs up, 95/100, buy and rejoice !”
Are these same persons ready to reconsider L4D score now ?
02/06/2009 at 09:41 Zerotrousers says:
This is bullshit. We’ve been waiting 6 months for those updates for L4D, and when they finally come out, we have to pay for them.
Don’t believe the hype, people. This game is an expansion, not a sequel.
02/06/2009 at 09:41 Jahkaivah says:
Defiantly in a mixed basket here, Valve seem to have gone against what they said they will do…. I’ll see how this turns out, Valve’s Valve after all.
02/06/2009 at 09:46 Psychopomp says:
People calling this a “heavily modded” version of L4D need to read the fucking article.
@Mellis Amada
So, what you’re saying is, far more content than L4D had is *NOT* worth 40 pounds?
You’re wrong, and I’m going to leave it at that. I enjoy not being angry.
Seriously, you all need to get the fuck over yourselves. Anyone who expects Valve to deliver this much stuff for free/less money either A)Needs to read the articles, or B) Has clearly not been paying attention to what a sequel is.
Hint:It’s exactly what L4D2 is. The sooner you get that through your skulls, the sooner I can stop feeling like RPS has become the Steam forums.
I miss the days when there was only a handful of us visiting this site.
02/06/2009 at 09:47 Katsumoto (jvgp100) says:
I play L4D regularly, but not obsessively. According to my x-fire stats, and the fact that I paid £25 for it on release (did you guys not get it from Steam or something?), it has thus far cost me 47p an hour, and that figure will only go down. OMG RIP-OFF?!
Most full-priced single player games will give you a lot less value than that. I really don’t get the anger. At all.
02/06/2009 at 09:53 Lewis says:
As Chet says in the interview below this post, Valve will continue to update L4D regardless, and new game modes for L4D2 will also be available for the original game. Can’t complain, really, can you?
02/06/2009 at 10:01 Ravenger says:
My biggest problem is the splitting up of the L4D community between two separate games. If L4D2 allowed you to play L4D levels if you had LD4 on your system, then I’d have no problem buying the new game.
02/06/2009 at 10:08 Demikaze says:
@PC Monster
Look, I fell out with religion a while back.
Valve has filled the niche nicely.
02/06/2009 at 10:18 Quests says:
What is it with my posts disappearing?
Do i have to spam the message 3000 times? cause i will, i got a new juicy illegal program for super site wreckage.
02/06/2009 at 10:22 Okami says:
Valve are releasing the sequel to one of my favorite games? And by the look of it, it’s really going to be a brand new game, with a ton of new features and not just some add-on content. And it’s going to be released really soon as well?
Those are some fantastic news. Surely no one in his right mind could be upset about this, could they?
02/06/2009 at 10:28 DMJ says:
L4D was better than average based on my own personal £-per-hour-of-fun scheme.
Unlike some people, I bought the game based on what was in the box, not what I desperately hoped would one day be in the box. What was in the box was good, it provided (and still does provide) many hours of entertainment.
Same as TF2 – I wanted what was in the box. It just so happened that as time went by, more stuff arrived in the box. This I call a “nice surprise”.
This controversy is like the internet equivalent of a stranger giving you £10 for no discernable reason one day, so the next day you punch him if he dares not to repeat his generosity.
Any PC gamer saying “but they promised!” just has to consider Windows Vista to know that you buy a product based on what you know you’ll get, not on what you wish you’ll get some day down the line. Wait for patches, wait for DLC, wait for bugfixes and when the content and price reach the point where you’re happy, buy it!
Angry Internet Men, please don’t hate me for having an opinion.
02/06/2009 at 10:33 Dante says:
@ Ravenger
It’s quite possible it will, Chet Falziek has stated that L4D games created in the SDK will be able to port over to L4D2, so I see no reason the official ones couldn’t.
@ Pouplip
Hey, don’t blame them for your crummy choice in reveiws, no games journo worth his salt would expect Valve to put stuff out ‘on a monthly basis’ they’re just not that good at deadlines.
02/06/2009 at 10:34 Dante says:
I’m with you DMJ, this sense of entitlement is ridulous. No wonder no-one else gives stuff away for free like Valve do, people just take it for granted.
02/06/2009 at 10:35 The Sombrero Kid says:
incidently the ‘AI director’ controlling the route througgh the level was supposed to be in L4D vanilla and they pulleed it, presumably to keep something for the sequal they clearly started working on.
02/06/2009 at 10:35 distended says:
I suspect that this only became known as LFD2 a few wekks ago, and the reason that the new characters are quite poor is because this new stuff was only a little while ago envisioned to star the original 4 characters.
Yes I am pretty disappointed about the announcement of the new game, mostly because of what I assume that will mean for the future. I could be wrong about that of course, but I find it difficult to imagine how Valve will release DLC for two very closely linked games at once, or even strnger just for teh original without updating the sequel. However Valve are cleverer than me so maybe they have good ideas about that.
Unless there is significant new content for L4D coming then I will feel as though I have been strung along by Valve (if not lied to).
At the end of the day, I have to remember that Valve are now a console developer too, and it’s quite clear to me that we wouldn’t be hearing about Left 4 Dead 2 today if it wasn’t an Xbox title.
Personally I find it disappointing rather than infuriating, but it’s just business I guess, and with any other developer I wouldn’t even feel strongly enough to posts a comment on the internet. It’s just the way the games industry is nowadays, sequels and DLC and micro-transactions and peripherals. It’s just that somehow Valve always felt a bit different to me, and were certainly closer to my heart than any other game-makers, but now I’ve realised they aren’t that different after all.
Maybe that’s just naivety, but the tinge of disappointment is just not something I ever thought I’d feel following a new game announcement from Valve.
02/06/2009 at 10:48 Jayteh says:
hey valve… GET EP 3 OUT THE DOOR
02/06/2009 at 10:54 CMaster says:
I like how all the “you’re just angry internet men” people just ignore those saying that they are dissapointed rather than angry. Not that there is much can be said back I guess “aww poor you?”. I think perhaps the real question is, with L4D2 being started as soon as L4D was finished, and it supposedly being “what they always felt L4D should be” – then why did they release L4D as it was? Desperatley needed the cash/to convince the finance guys it was a saleable game?
As a complete aside, who would be prepared to pay a nominal fee a month (say $5) with no purchase cost for an FPS that actually promised regular updates? Say a minium of a new map a month, with new skins and weapons coming in as often as possible. Would this be a viable business model? Has anyone heard of a company that is trying it?
Edit: Oh, and am I the only one who didn’t want to see the campaigns of L4D linked together? I prefered to think of them as 4 different “might have beens” depending on where the survivors lived. I think linking them all together (and basically starting from the beginning again with each one) would have felt really well, off.
02/06/2009 at 11:04 Demikaze says:
And please. All we have is some gameplay details and a title. We don’t know anything about price structure, implementation, compatibility with the original, combined with the original, if it’ll be a large patch, an expansion, a stand-alone, part of a bundle, if it’ll be free, cheap, heavily reduced, full-priced.
In short, we don’t really know anything. Feel free to all go a bit loopy when you do find out more about the release. But on nothing but presumption and speculation is mental. I mean, scary mental.
02/06/2009 at 11:05 Octaeder says:
The only potentially legitimate complaint here is it’ll split the community, but until we know how that’ll be approached we can only speculate.
Plus we’re talking about a game that has a maximum 4 people for survivor/campaign and 8 for versus. Even if the number of people playing the first game halved I doubt it would matter much
02/06/2009 at 11:11 SwiftRanger says:
Any PC gamer saying “but they promised!” just has to consider Windows Vista to know that you buy a product based on what you know you’ll get, not on what you wish you’ll get some day down the line.
But that’s it, isn’t it? Everyone (including the press) assumed Valve isn’t like Microsoft and that they would live up to the promise that they would do the TF2 update thing for L4D as well. Of course L4D has been worth its money already but Valve did promise more than just rehashing existing levels or fixing its atrocious lobby system. L4D2 seems very content rich and interesting but a lot of people still expected something better for the original as well. Right now, that doesn’t seem to be happening, at least not until L4D2 has been released.
It sounds to me like an announcement about the original game’s future next to the sequel reveal would have been appropriate.
Just a matchmaking update isn’t exactly gonna make me convince friends of buying the original game. No, I’ll probably just say: wait till this November and pick up L4D2, seems like Valve has pulled a UT2003 on us…
02/06/2009 at 11:18 Quests says:
CMaster> all agreed, except maybe the linking. I wished there was a coherent epic plot with maybe different endings.
But since the ending scenes were all the same, stupid extraction 3 seconds screens(really not rewarding) with no hints of drama, story, dialogue, no “happiness”, no emotions from the characters, nothing at all, it would have been too hard.
Man what a let-down it was… even beyond my aims of criticizing.
02/06/2009 at 11:32 James T says:
Oh yeah…
02/06/2009 at 11:39 dash says:
Cant wait to spend another 50$ on this mod! X_x
Anyway, now we know why there was no new content released for L4D: They were holding up everything for L4D V1.01 (a.k.a Left 4 Dead 2).
Guess valve is all about business now, satisfying the customers comes somewhere at the end. Let the milking begin!
02/06/2009 at 11:41 POOMASTER says:
OHHHHH BABY…. WOOOOOOOOOO BABY…
02/06/2009 at 11:54 Fenchurch says:
I demand that the release in 2011 be called Left 4 Dead 4 Ever. ;-P
02/06/2009 at 11:59 Pippi987 says:
I can’t wait for L4D2 to come out. Everything is perfect EXCEPT .. it is a bit obvious that L4D2 is what L4D1 is suppose to be. L4D2 is the actual game, while L4D1 was like a demo basically. Since there is no major difference between number 1 and 2 .. they should of made it like an expansion pack not a totally new $50US game. I will buy it but still …
02/06/2009 at 12:46 Dante says:
@ Sombreo Kid
Or you know… they pulled it because it wasn’t working and then figured it out in the interim, like so many other games.
Do you honestly think they pulled out the best features of the game so they could put them in the sequel? Who in their right mind does that?
And seriously, mod? Expansion pack? Have you people actually played a non valve game in the last ten years?
Quiz question, how many game sequels are basically a rehashing of the original with some (fairly major) gameplay changes and a new story, setting and characters?
Here’s a clue:
NEARLY ALL OF THEM.
Grow up.
02/06/2009 at 12:46 The Sombrero Kid says:
for the people who are saying we don’t know the details we know it’s going to be a boxed xbox 360 game and therefor a full price game over there, they will then be forced to make it at least the same price as left 4 dead in order to keep the console guys happy it’s not speculation, it’s an accurate assumption.
02/06/2009 at 12:48 The Sombrero Kid says:
@Dante the answer is no i don’t buy those games because they are not worth it, however they are not multiplayer games designed to invalidate the original product. the only reason this is left 4 dead 2 instead of a new IP is to sap away the left 4 dead user base.
02/06/2009 at 12:50 andrew says:
@wheres_my_gun: I completely understand your point.
But what bugs me is that people assume that there won’t be any DLC for L4D because of the sequel yet Valve never said that. They could just as easily release the content up to the release. And let me ask everyone this, would you rather have DLC that won’t be up to date to the sequel in terms of technology or do you want the best that Valve can offer. I understand why most of you are angry but let’s wait till Nov and see what happens O.K.?
@Psychopomp: I respect you opinion. :)
02/06/2009 at 12:57 Ergates says:
Christ! Have we been invaded by Gamespot or something? It’s like a whiney-13-yr-old convention in here!
Where does this sense of entitlement come from? Valve are probably the best for giving away extra content for free, but that doesn’t mean they’re obliged to do so. AIMs = Veruka Salt.
L4D is great. This will be great. Valve are great. Having more good games in the world is great. Be happy.
02/06/2009 at 12:58 Dante says:
@ Sombreo Kid
Yes, because I’m sure less people playing their game is exactly what Valve truly want.
Left 4 Dead 2 vs Mordern Warfare 2, compare and contrast.
a) Both have extremely short single player modes.
b) Both live primarilly on their multiplayer.
c) Both will likely use the same tech as the previous game.
d) Both will use largely similar gameplay, with some new introductions.
e) The major difference will be new characters and story.
So… where is the angry ranting about Mordern Warfare?
02/06/2009 at 13:00 Real Horrorshow says:
I was kind of hoping Valve would blow everyone’s minds right the fuck apart and announce Counter-Strike 2.
02/06/2009 at 13:08 Okami says:
@Ergates: My thoughts exactly. There used to be a time when the RPS comments threads featured intelligent and thoughtful discussions (except of course, when I partake in them) . That is sadly no longer the case.
Geez.. I sure sound old and bitter…
Now get off my lawn you damn kids!
EDIT: I was, of course, exagarating a bit. There is still intelligent discussion going on on RPS and in this thread as well. Some of the arguments and concerns brought forth here are indeed quite valid.
But there are far too many unreflected AIM rantings here as well. And sadly it only takes a few angry and stupid comments to taint the tone of the whole discussion.
02/06/2009 at 13:10 jalf says:
@Ergates: It doesn’t mean they’re obliged, no, but it does mean that Valve is no longer the best at giving away extra content for free. We now know that they do that with some games, and not others, and that it is a bad idea to buy their game in the expectation that it will get added content over time. The sense of entitlement basically comes from Valve saying “you’re entitled”. You want to see where they said that? Read this.
Yes, it’s a wonder that some people feel entitled to those things, and disappointed that Valve doesn’t give a damn.
@andrew: Why should people assume that there will be any DLC for L4D? No DLC has been announced. It took them 6 months to make the tiniest, most content-poor DLC they’ve ever made for any game. It seems unlikely that the pace on L4D is going to go *up* after the announcement of L4D2. Even if they continue the same pace, that basically means the game is abandoned. About the DLC being “up to date”, that doesn’t make sense. If they wanted to, they could patch L4D to be up to date. They could provide L4D2 as an expansion, or otherwise give a discount to current L4D owners. There are plenty of ways in which they could bring their game up to date without completely ditching the poor suckers who forked over $50 in the expectation that it’d be supported the way TF2 was.
Oh well, L4D2 does look interesting, but the constant assault of people rushing to Valve’s defense and trying to bash everyone who is disappointed (not angry or raging, but disappointed) is getting tiring. Especially as they conveniently forget what Valve promised when L4D launched.
The problem is not “Yay, Valve is gonna make more awesome games like L4D”, but rather “ok, it’s official, Valve does not intend to deliver on their promises with L4D”. The former is great, obviously, and I doubt anyone are seriously upset about that. The latter is pretty disappointing.
02/06/2009 at 13:18 pimorte says:
It seems a shame that L4D will never shake off its unfinished status.
I was slightly hesitant to buy it, given how easy and repetitive the demo got, but I got sucked in by RPS’s hype and paid up. I purchased it at launch off Steam. It cost me about $70AU.
Sure, it was fun for a little while, but it really shone through quickly just how *thin* a game it was. The design of the game was fundamentally flawed. TF2 launched with far less map space than L4D, but its gameplay has a much longer shelf life. I figured out why:
It’s the amount of interactions. TF2 launched with 9 classes, each with 3+ weapons, and 6 maps (with IIRC 3 gameplay modes). Each of the classes can be present in many different combinations as part of a team, and each team member is controlled by a live human. The amount of different interactions and strategies you experience and employ is significantly larger than L4D.
L4D has only a tiny fraction of the possible interactions. You have three main guns (two of which are worth using), two grenade types, two(.five) landmine types and 4 identical players to use them with. (There’s also healthbars and healing, if you really want to count those.) The multitude of your time is spent walking the edges of a metaphorical digraph through the level, shooting the same zombie enemy type hundreds of times. You have 3 Special types, each with maybe one or two interaction possibilities each, plus the Tank boss and the landmine (aka Witch). There are also the crescendo events, but each of those is fairly the same as well.
The Versus mode was also very poorly designed – one side has vastly more interesting capabilities than the other, and the scoring structure and extreme campaign length in Versus means that it is a very rare game that ever goes for the full length with all the original people.
So much content was cut out too – the between-level transition movies, the extensive voting system, the extensive stat tracker and award system …
Plus L4D is twice as expensive as TF2.
The problem with L4D’s overall model is that it is expensive to produce content for it (campaigns) due to the heavy art asset creation requirement, yet those same campaigns produce very little in gameplay variation. A map for TF2, however, can produce great tactical and gameplay variation for much less production cost.
02/06/2009 at 13:24 Sean says:
JESUS. TAP DANCING. CHRIST. SO LONG FRANCIS, HELLO ROCHELLE!
02/06/2009 at 13:41 Wirbelwind says:
Just like how people needed to be convinced before L4D launched that it wasn’t just a simple shooter with zombies (and that the 4 campaigns offered replayability), so will people again have to be convinced off the following;
While there’s obviously going to be something of a fuss made over people’s expectations that L4D would be constantly expanded for free, following the TF2 model, it’s important to stress that while this is obviously still the same L4D core experience, it’s certainly not a bunch of new maps thrown into the old game. It’s a coherent new imagining of the game, this time bigger, smarter, and far more elaborate. Oh, and gloriously more gory
The least Valve can do here is give a beta preview/early demo/whatever for all L4D 1 owners (and not just L4D2 pre-orders). Best of all they combine both games in one client, giving you access to the campaigns of the version(s) you purchased.
02/06/2009 at 13:44 mrrobsa says:
I tried to read everyones views here, but there’s too many!
I just wanted to say that I’m disappointed by Valve’s decision, I’m not gonna whinge and say I wanted loads of free content ala TF2, however, as others have said, L4D isnt even ‘finished’, the SDK only just came out and I believe it’s not final, the matchmaking system is still borked (and it keeps me away from the game since it takes me 20 mins to find and join a stable game), and there are still exploits to be patched. Plus, the fanbase for a multiplayer title is going to be split, within a year, which is a bad idea.
The worst part is that nothing I’ve heard sounds like a sequel, this is Left4Dead 1.5, and should be sold as such. I’d have less of a problem if this was DLC for the first game. At least it would show signs of seriously supporting your product.
Poor show Valve.
02/06/2009 at 14:02 The Bloody Wordsmith says:
Maybe Valve is pulling a TF2 stunt here. Remember the Spy vs Sniper update? They had gamers totally outsmarted there.
If so, they’ll make consumers realise how ‘kind’ they are by releasing a major patch instead of charging them moolah for new stuffs..
02/06/2009 at 14:12 TheSombreroKid says:
@Dante like i said, i don’t buy the call of duty games precisly because they aren’t worth it, if i’d known left 4 dead would follow the same pattern i wouldn’t have bought it either.
Has everyone forgotten they were going to try and sell the survivor pack as well, imagine i had bought the survivor pack and then this wtf!
02/06/2009 at 14:21 TheSombreroKid says:
everyone who thinks this isn’t going to happen, it is going to happen, as much as vavle like a joke they most certainly wouldn’t con microsoft into lettng them announce it at thier e3 conferance and thus make microsoft a laughing stock.
02/06/2009 at 14:24 Kadayi says:
@jalf
This is almost certainly a case of a lot of good ideas coming to the fore and becoming just too big to try and leverage into the existing content, and so a decision was reached to make a new title to accommodate them, sometimes its just better all round to go ‘back to formula’ in certain situations. As I said before the only real issue people have is that Valve have erroneously opted to call it L4D2 rather than L4D: New Orleans. If they’d done that I doubt the whine would be so high from the corner of the internet who love nothing more than to react, rather than bother to actually read and digest the full story.
02/06/2009 at 14:33 JonFitt says:
Priceless:
http://www.petitiononline.com/banl4d2/petition.html
For those who don’t want to read back through the comment history, this is key:
http://www.videogamer.com/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html
02/06/2009 at 14:42 dsmart says:
@ Rose
I don’t believe this though. L4D2 has exclusive content not found in L4D. So thats a good enough reason right there to play the sequel – if you want.
There are still people playing CS today. How do you explain that – in the face of so many other offerings?
Gamers will play what they like. If they like L4D, they’ll play it. If they try LFD2 and they like it, they’ll play it. Sure the user base will get fragmented but since when was that a problem?
I for one – as a gamer – believe that I got my money’s worth when I bought and played L4D. I’ll be getting L4D2 as well. Valve doesn’t owe me anything – least of all an explanation as to their business decisions.
02/06/2009 at 14:45 Styngent says:
This has got nothing to do with the title of the game. It has everything to do with the release culture that Valve continue to demonstrate. N one can deny that valve have consitently churned out great games, or rather, great concepts. The thing is they are either small instances of multiplayer only experiences or episodic slices of singleplayer action that take years to complete.
The problem is located within Valves small team unwilling to expand but seemingly unwilling to adopt a small team mindset. The clearly love exercising their creative freedom given their highly adaptive engine and access to god knows how much capital but also seem to love underdeveloping their ideas.
L4D was a big idea, but a small game. Released incomplete with its most recent update only really bringing it to the kind of content level i’d have expected on launch. I mean one of it’s only two game modes only had half of the only four campaigns avaliable. If they can spring on this evolved gameplay only a few months down the line then why not start implementing in their updates? Because they can slap a 2 on it and make a fortune is why. It’s good money, but poor business given the amount of people alienated by this sort of strategy.
02/06/2009 at 14:52 TCM says:
http://www.petitiononline.com/banl4d2/petition.html
This is seriously hilarious.
02/06/2009 at 15:05 Demikaze says:
I was very tempted to sign that petition just so I could tick off ‘Do something remarkably preposterously stupid before you die’ on my To-Do list.
02/06/2009 at 15:05 WAAH says:
What about my bloated sense of entltlement, HMMM VALVE? THIS GAME WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FREE!!! YOU’RE JUST LIKE EA WITH ALL THIS MONEY WANTING!
*drops toaster in bath tub*
02/06/2009 at 15:08 Loveschack says:
Ever since they announced L4D2, many many tears have been shed on the internet and I have to say I’m surprised and disgusted by a lot of people’s reactions.
I will happily pay whatever price they deem fit for the sequel, because the first game was excellent value for money. So many fun hours gone by with friends and strangers, it really doesn’t get much better than this, does it?
This announcement should be cause for celebration, and I implore those with doubts to have some goddamn faith in Valve! With regards to the community based content, I’m fully convinced that they’re working on making the transition from L4D to L4D2 as smooth as possible – try and listen to the podcast with Chet.
Best game in a long time just got even better – roll on November :-)
Love,
Schack
02/06/2009 at 15:08 Alec Meer says:
Can people try not to reply to the more obvious/horrible trolls, please? They’re inevitably deleted once we catch ‘em, which means we either need to do further clean-up or leave responses to confusingly invisible things. If it looks like we’ve not caught some particular slice of nastiness, best to mail us instead of commenting, if poss. Thankee!
02/06/2009 at 15:10 Dante says:
@Styngent: Again, how is L4D incomplete? Was anyone saying that before the sequel announcement? It has more gameplay than several ‘AAA’ games from the get go, an extra mode added after release, a competitive multiplayer and randomisation that adds replayability. Sounds pretty damn complete to me. Costs less than most major titles too.
If you didn’t think it was value for money after buying it, well boo hoo, we’ve all made bad purchasing decisions before. Just don’t buy the next one, but don’t bloody moan about it all not going your way.
Edited for Alec
02/06/2009 at 15:13 Dunepal says:
So, after reading this entire page of comments of hate and love there’s a few things I would like to add because a lot of people can’t just critique a game without getting too hot headed about it.
It is true that it’s a little too early to be releasing a new L4D, but I do like the idea of it. To me, L4D was never really a full game and I still don’t understand why I paid $60 to play it. Don’t get me wrong, L4D was so much fun. I can’t even begin to tally the number of DAYS I’ve spent playing this game. But having said that, I also have to say that after about 2 months I stopped playing the game because 1) it looks like ass. I’m sorry people, but L4D compared to all the other Valve titles, looks like ASS! and 2) WAAAAAAAY too many glitches.
I don’t think we should hate Valve for L4D2, but rather for charging an assload for L4D. Someone at Valve decided to take an idea from Counter Strike and made it into a half ass game which was fun to play because it was the first of it’s kind, but because of all of its flaws didn’t really hold up for me. The idea I’m talking about, as they even mention in the commentary in the game, is when a couple of people in CS get on one team, and flood the other team with Jason mode players (as in, they can’t use anything but knives). It’s a great idea, but now it sounds like L4D is nothing more than a CS mod, full of the usual CS glitches. The recent update for L4D was nice, but all it did, was make L4D a complete game in my opinion, still not worth the $60 though.
And I can only deduce from the trailer and screenshots, that Episode 3 is not very far away. To me, it looks like they’ve been secretly working on a new engine, and L4D2 is going to be used to test it out. Because we all know that the people at Valve are secretive son of a bitch geniuses.
02/06/2009 at 15:21 CMaster says:
I’m really not sure which “side” here has the greater number of AIM. Those annoyed at Valve or those annoyed that anyone dare question a game developer. A lot of people in these comments are missing the point…
02/06/2009 at 15:26 TCM says:
I’m not annoyed that people would dare question Valve.
I’m annoyed that people are being willfully ignorant, and less reasonable than most political forums were around the presidential elections.
02/06/2009 at 15:31 Styngent says:
@dante
No I honestly don’t think it was a bad purchasing decision to buy L4D. But then they release an “evolved” version of what is essentially the same animal a few months down the line and charge for it again.
The issue is that either the changes are so slight and include only minor content additions (i.e. new maps, new weapons and new characters) with the gameplay not really being expanded on – in which case I’m paying for another carbon copy of L4D. Or they have some how managed to revolutionise the gameplay in a game that they released only months ago in which case why not just upgrade lef 4 dead or sit on their major updates a little longer.
I mean to illustrate this a little more, this was a shorter gap than the span between ep1 and ep2 which were supposed to be episodic games. Promising short yet frequent gaming experiences.
I think valve are a creative powerhouse. But I also think they value their bank balance more than their customers.
02/06/2009 at 15:44 Ludo says:
Wow, the Internet is literally angry with rage today.
I’m looking forward to Lef4 Dead 2. The original has provided me with many hours of top notch entertainment with my friends. Left 4 Dead has proved itself to be well worth the money.
I’m more than happy to criticise developers who deliver poor products, but it’s mind boggling to attack a developer for releasing a game. Especially when the developer in question has such an excellent track record of producing brilliant titles.
I’d recommend people listen to the podcast with Chet as well, it’s a good insight into what Valve are thinking, and Chet’s always good.
@Dunepal, I don’t think L4D2 will be in a new engine, it’ll be a slightly updated version of the L4D engine. Otherwise L4D SDK maps wouldn’t translate. They’re due a big engine update though.
02/06/2009 at 15:45 tombraiderguy says:
I am very excited about this game.
I AM LOVING THE AI!
Gauntlets?! and No More Hiding Spot!? Wooot!
This is gonna be one big thrill ride.
I do feel ripped off and in another sense satisfied.
I’ve got mixed up feelings.
I do feel as though all this “New stuff” should have been added to the current Left 4 Dead.
LOL IM BACK AND FORTH.
I’m glad there are new maps, zombies (not so much characters; Long Live Mercy Hospital Survivors!) and characters. I love them and I will eventually get used to the new ones but I like the city better =D
Is is just me or do I like Coach’s shirt?
lol
THEY SHOULD HAVE A CAST OF CHARACTERS SELECTION SCREEN (ORIGIONAL AND NEW CHARACTERS).. BUT THEN THAT WOULD REALLY PISS OF PEOPLE LOL! I WOULDN’T CARE. I KNOW HOW TO SAVE MY PENNIES. =D
I’m still gonna purchase it. Who knows, I might even hold it on reserve. =D
>_>
<_<
I feel there should be more added to Left 4 Dead first…..
I think this was a major kick in the cohones if u ask me…
I’m a newbie to Valve and I have been since the game came out…
But I forgive Valve. I’m not a big Valve person but I really do like their Style….
I love Steam tooo……=D
02/06/2009 at 15:49 Anarckitty says:
WTF?? Weren’t they supposed to release new maps this Summer for L4D?
02/06/2009 at 15:52 TheSombreroKid says:
@Ludo the source engine is a backwards compatible code base, it evolves rather than has incremental updates, most game engines work like this tbh, you can run half life 1 levels in the latest code base i’d suspect (with some bugs, no doubt).
02/06/2009 at 15:54 Styngent says:
To make one final point, I do find it amusing how in every contested Valve release, which is almost every one, people rush to Valves defense by banding around terms such as “willingful ignorance” and “mind boggling to attack a developer for releasing a game”.
I think to help you out with these points the simple response is that some people actually give a damn about where and how they spend their money. That’s all there is to understand on this one.
02/06/2009 at 15:57 scopie says:
I would expect Valve to somehow compensate early adopters of L4D, either by making L4D2 available to them for a pittance (1/4 of the launch price) or somehow allowing LFD2 content/updates to apply to L4D, or some such other technical wizardry.
Valve knows who their customers are and what they expect. I think they’re too smart to make this move without a plan to appease their hardcore fans…
02/06/2009 at 15:58 TCM says:
The willfull ignorance here is in the realm of “Buh-buh, but valve will stop supporting l4d!”
Which, by virtue of the newspost RIGHT BELOW THIS ONE, is untrue.
02/06/2009 at 16:01 Psychopomp says:
http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/oh_no_its_making_well_reasoned?utm_source=b-section
Relevant
“But then they release an “evolved” version of what is essentially the same animal a few months down the line and charge for it again.”
Read:Every sequel ever, just without a 2 year dev cycle
02/06/2009 at 16:13 Styngent says:
Yea my point is, without the 2 year dev cycle surely there is a valid arguement for maintainig more of an active updating policy rather than an outright replacement. If they had this content on their mind so soon after release then why not work towards inclusion.
Also newsposts aside valve games get left behind, I’ve unfortunately played too many to know that this is the case. CSS, HL2dm. TF2 and the episodes get a little action when it suits them to be perfectly honest. That is just the case. All the newsposts in the world don’t change a thing.
02/06/2009 at 16:18 PeopleLikeFrank says:
I am especially amused by how “New Maps, New Plot, New Characters, New Enemies, New AI, New Weapons” + “Any other context” = Sequel, but above + L4D = “Obvious DLC material”.
02/06/2009 at 16:23 Lack_26 says:
I agree with Psychopomp, the CoD series does the same thing repeatedly with barely any time before the next one comes. I just watched the game-play from Mod. War. 2, and I honestly don’t see any difference between what they did and what people are saying Valve are doing.
A content light, but good multiplayer game which has a sequel released with a bit more content, but it’s still basically the same beast.
02/06/2009 at 16:25 Psychopomp says:
@Styngent
AND THAT’S WHAT WE CALL A SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT. TF2 IS AN EXCEPTION, NOT THE RULE.
^SEE THAT? THAT’S MY YELLING FONT.
Valve made a fucking mistake with the TF2 updates. They’ll never be able to release a sequel to anything without cries of DLC PL0X
You people are truly astounding
Edit:Times like this are why I could never admin anything.
I would banhammer SO MANY PEOPLE
02/06/2009 at 16:27 CMaster says:
@TCM – they’ve already basically stopped supporting L4D 1 in favour of 2. It seems that almost all content staff were working on this sequel, explaining the lack of work from that side in L4D one. Also, it’s hard to imagine Valve can consistently put out continual content for both. Until I see some evidence of ongoing L4D support, I’ll consider any comments that they intend to “carry on” as just an attempt to soothe rather than being genuine. Also, I’ll be damned if I’m going to listen to 45 minutes of awkward pauses and nervous giggles, which is what the start of that podcast consists of.
All in all, it does feel (and sound, listening to bits of Valve) like they released a game that in the end was more like a test version than a finished game. After another 6 months or so of iterating, they are now getting something like what their vision was for the game. Unfortunatley, they sold the test bed (which I’d always expected to be a £15-£20 game, not a £35 one (although I got it a little cheaper from Play) those 6 months ago, possibly because Valve’s finance men were wondering if it would ever make any money – they have the proof now. If they do offer some meaningful discount for L4D owners then I have to say I’ll probably buy in quite happily. But my opinion of Valve has been dented somewhat.
02/06/2009 at 16:27 Golden says:
So this is what you were so excited about on the last podcast. Rightly bloody so. looks great. this E3 is great
02/06/2009 at 16:30 PeopleLikeFrank says:
Hai guys, I made a group:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycottboycott/
Join it for laffs. Or don’t. Whichever.
02/06/2009 at 16:32 distended says:
On one hand people are moaning that others have an unjustified sense of entitlement about new content for LFD1, and then there are others saying that that new content will be forthcoming.
Surely if the content is coming (as Gabe promised when L4D1 was released, and Chet kind of said in yesterday’s podcast) then Valve basically are saying gamers are entitled to it?
There are lots of weak arguments on both sides I’m afraid.
02/06/2009 at 16:46 A Dead Eldar Guardian says:
And to think…all this time I thought Blizzard had the worst community.
02/06/2009 at 16:50 Iain "DDude" Dawson says:
Y’know, I have read all the posts above, and I just want to speculate on what I feel happened here.
Valve realised they had too much awesome stuff. New specials? FIVE New campaigns? New melee system? New weapons? New Characters? Changed Witch? No more safe spots for set pieces? That is all amazing stuff that has me super excited. Don’t get me wrong, whatever L4D stuff Valve release is going to be epic. John, you got me super excited. EPIC!
But that is too much stuff for DLC. (Especially console DLC. Too much for a console hard-drive, and microsoft would never let it be free.)
So Valve were stuck with a choice. Release Left 4 Dead 2, give a smaller DLC of just some of the stuff they have, or release a Left 4 Dead 1.5 just for PC gamers. And they went for the first choice.
They found themselves in a corner, and this was the best they could do. It is Valve, again, trying to fix something they screwed up.
02/06/2009 at 17:12 ETABRIZI says:
looks quality. carnt wait!
02/06/2009 at 17:33 distended says:
Also, tell me why the fuck this much content should be free, without falling back on “They did it before.”
This is a full fledged sequel.
Not many people are saying all of that stuff should be free, but lots of people are saying maybe one campaign should be.
As to whether it looks like a full-fledged sequel, that’s a matter of opinion but I do think it’s hard to tell from what I’ve seen so far (and the RPS preview/podcast seemed a little too fawning to take it completely at face value – sorry if that sounds a bit bitchy).
02/06/2009 at 17:54 Kadayi says:
@Styngent
You think there would seriously be this much hysterical (in both senses of the word) negativity if they announced they were releasing the L4D:New Orleans standalone expansion?
02/06/2009 at 18:16 Psychopomp says:
@Distended
They day that a bunch of improvements, with a bunch of new weapons, features, enemies, levels and characters stops being a sequel, is the day Modern Warfare 2 becomes an expansion pack
02/06/2009 at 19:18 Beastman says:
Heres my thoughts on this situation:
Did I get my $50-ish worth from L4D1? Yes.
Would I likely get my $50-ish worth from L4D2? Yes.
Do I feel I should have to pay for L4D2? No. Not at all. Because at the end of the day, this is Valve. A company that gamers, PC gamers specifically, have always been able to hold above almost all others and say “they get it. They understand. They know what PC gamers expect from games.”
And now it would seem they don’t. This is a huge intangible that they’re throwing away. To this point, they have been extremely loyal to their fans, and in return their fans have been extremely loyal to the company. But now, no longer can we say with 100% certainty that Valve games will enjoy a long lifecycle filled with constant and plentiful updates. That you’re essentially guarenteed to get your moneys worth.
The biggest “fuck you” Valve could give it’s fans, at least in my eyes, is to turn into just another company. Unfortunantly, it seems like they’re doing just that.
(Unless all of this turns out to be overblown and L4D2 turns out to be free to L4D1 owners and/or a lot cheaper than L4D1 was at release. In which case, I <3 Valve.)
02/06/2009 at 19:49 Meat Circus says:
I hate full-price expansion packs. Especially ones with delusions of grandeur.
02/06/2009 at 19:54 Kadayi says:
@Beastman
At what point in this fictional scenario of Valve just giving the entirety of L4D2 to the entire existing L4D playerbase for free do Valve actually make money from it? Or are you one of those people who assumes that developers (even successful ones) just have a bottomless pit of cash? 150+ salaries to be paid every month, plus overheads. Where is that money coming from exactly? Thin air? Please also no ‘they sold X millions of games!!!’, yes they have but the bulk of that money probably has been ploughed back into the business so they could make further product, and every month salaries still need to be paid (what you pay at the store and what the developers receive as remuneration are two entirely different things are everyone has had their cut).
@Meat Circus
That’s rich coming from you.
02/06/2009 at 19:59 distended says:
After some thought, I tend to think it’s just the situation Valve found themselves in.
I don’t think they thought it would be as successful on consoles as it has been, and their plans for new content have changed a bit since.
The 360 game has to have all the content of the PC version (there’s no way they’d let a TF2-type situation happen again here), and I think this is just the fairest way they can see of making that happen.
I obviously wouldn’t begrudge Valve success in the console market, but I just hope that valvey PC spirit remains.
Like I said before, if it was any other developer this thread would be nowhere near as long, but Valve are just
a bita lot special, and I think I saw a wobble yesterday that made me worried for the future. But hopefully there’s no need to be.I’ve relaxed a bit about it now, I still don’t think the announcement was particularly good news, but as long as they don’t pump out yearly sequels for all their games then I think I’m alright for a bit ;)
02/06/2009 at 20:02 murky says:
Did anyone at any point say they were splitting the games into two servers or two worlds? Or are they releasing a whole new game that runs alongside the first one, letting you choose which campaigna nd character you want to play? hmmmm? has anyone said?
I think you are kidding if you think Valve should hire an entire team of programmers and artists to make an entire game for free. Do you work for free when someone wants fries with their shake?
02/06/2009 at 20:29 tombraiderguy says:
I feel as though 1/2 the expansion pack was a rip off from time and deadline and not Valve. I can see now Valve has learned from their mistakes based on this trailer and gameplay that I have seen on some websites.
The Versus part was a rip off to me because of course all 4 campaigns should have been acessible in Versus mode. The Survivor part was; I think the expansion pack: more or less. ITwasn’t really something that added or contributed into making it into a saferoom or an escape, but really just a; How long can you take em all? We were thrown one map and I am grateful. I am also grateful of the Custom Building Tools and Shit..
I can’t wait for Santa. @_@
LOL I’m just kidding. I’m not waiting for Santa to haul his ass to my home and squeeze out this nice gem. Imma gonna buy it. =D …Santa please don’t leave me…I’m sorry LOL.
02/06/2009 at 20:30 Milo says:
i’ll just say this;
pro valve
they’ve booked up their ideas and finally got round to a fair turn around for releasing games, unlike previous mentioned half life releases, sure they could of released this as an add on and charge 1600 msp or more for the privilege that to me makes more sence than just releasing a new game with the bare bones of the first and kudos for preventing campers,
cons valve
wtf is with coach’s t-shirt ?? it looks like he’s coming out before we met him i hope they change it to something less loud or give ppl an option to change it and what is with you guys we want ep3 ffs !!
the charger ??? in short a mini tank creative juices running dry where they ?? spose some nutters wanted it to explain,
so what next a female hunter ? like the witch but more emo? similar smoker but with horde attracting smoke this time ?
and the boomer maybe one with more hp and faster?
To compensate for the hazmat zombies, how about a fire breather or spitter.
another thing they need to put in is a different vote system as i’ve seen a few ppl think its good fun to effectivly hijack someone elses game, tk everyone and then play on as they want, vote for changes, when they die they rince and repeat.
02/06/2009 at 20:50 Denton says:
@Milo
Just to pick up on what is clearly the most important point here:
I love that Coach’s shirt is horrible. Firstly not everybody does have a good sense of how to dress well in real life so it’s a nice character detail. I’m sick of everyone having perfect taste and dressing in matching colours to their environment and each other as if they’re just barbies that a god is playing with. Secondly, I’m guessing that since the game is set during the day now (at least in part) the survivors have to be even gaudier to stand out. Nick’s all-white suit does that rather nicely, Ellis is in white with a prominent green cap… it’s only Rochelle who doesn’t seem to really scream of brightness.
02/06/2009 at 20:53 James says:
Listen guys, right, this game in itself looks like a great game. And left 4 dead was a great game. But what this game is doing is what every sequel does, taking the original to new heights or continuing on. There were no major differences between call of duty 4 and 5 (apart from the era they were set in) Same system and controls, but people didn’t moan about it. It did a good job of continuing the franchise. And as far as I can see, this game is set to be a great sequel, hell it looks better than the original. So what Valave have done is taken an original smash hit and enhanced it to a knockout blow. The game looks awesome. And the fact this one will have a basic story puts a lot of wavelength between it and the original. Can’t wait for it to come out.
02/06/2009 at 20:56 Assassin says:
I personally think that Left 4 Dead is not the kind of game that you would make a sequel to. It’s already perfect as is, and it ties in some of the most realistic elements of a zombie apocalypse in the world today. The car’s all over the streets, lights still on, weapons and ammo scattered all over. There’s really nothing you can do to improve on this factor.
Another thing that they don’t need to change is the cast. They’re the coolest bunch of people you ever did see in a video game ever! Honestly, a Viet Nam war veteran, a biker, a black businessman, and a college girl, cannot possibly be replaced by some fat black coach, a con man, a mechanic and a news reporter! I would probably be a lot less harsh on this game if it had all the same characters from the last one, but they had to kill the coolest of them all. Bill. Why, dear God, did they kill Bill? (lol)
And to top it off, the new infected. The Charger just bites the bullet. I mean, really, there’s nothing special about him, just that Valve was running out of idea’s. A crossbreed between a common infected and a tank, and it doesn’t even incapacitate you? LAME!!! If they wanted to give players a challenge, he should rush you, knock you over 50 feet and incapacitate you. That would be tough. Also, how the hell does a person change into a zombie in a hazmat suit? Does the zombie telepathically infect him? That needs some explanation. In L4D, all the special infected have a story behind them, and it makes sense. The hunter is a teenage boy, the tank is a bodybuilder, the smoker is as stated, the boomer is some fat tard, and the witch is an emo teenage girl. Simple, subtle, and easily understandable. Now tell me how a person has a super huge arm, incredibly fast legs, and is still a human? I’ve got to give it to the Wandering Witch, though (and that’s all i’m going to compliment on). That is a challenge for players.
I also don’t see how bullets can start on fire. Is that even possible in the future? I know there are exploding tipped bullets, but I haven’t ever seen incendiary bullets EVER! The military probably doesn’t even have those. And, the melee weapons. Those might have some ups to them, as opposed to the common ‘whack’ in L4D. But, the chainsaw is a stupid choice. Of course they go with the worlds (quote)”most brutal weapon in the world”. That’s a laugh. How about gas? Where’s that?
My point to everyone who cares to read this is that Left 4 Dead 2 only has a few good features to it. Melee weapons and a couple more guns. That’s about it (sure, they also got rid of Zoe, but she was a needed element to show that there are noobs in this world). With my final conclusion, Left 4 Dead 2 is beating in the dirt the worlds perfect game. That is all.
02/06/2009 at 21:09 eowl says:
What have they done with characters?!
02/06/2009 at 21:12 Denton says:
@Assassin
In fairness I didn’t care about the L4D characters at all until I’d actually played the game. It’s only fair to give these four characters a chance. From the trailer I get the impression that I’ll like Coach and I’m all for more characters like Nick in games. Interesting aspect to have a criminal becoming a heroic character that has been done but not really explored enough.
02/06/2009 at 21:40 katarokinimoto says:
Personally I loved the first one to death because of the quality they put into it, the death animations, the dialogue, the wall writing. All of it felt very thought out and I decided a while ago that I’ll take that quality over quantity any day.
The only thing that bugs me about this new one is they’re not releasing anything new or original, just better stuff that should have been in the first game. Personally I would pay $40 for it as an update so I could still have the old characters too. I’m gonna miss them as I’m playing with these southern strangers lol
02/06/2009 at 21:44 Demikaze says:
I like the idea of the Charger – he’s like a half-evolved tank. It fills a nice niche between the Hunter and the Tank, in any case. The idea that it will knock you out of position, for example, just as you’re about to melee a hunter off a pal is great one. Also, the fact that he can make a grab and pound the living daylights out of you, much like a hunter, means there’s a bit of strategy there in the way you play him. It’s also good that he doesn’t have phenomenal health – hopefully, he can withstand a little more than the hunter, but not too much more. That charge sounds devastating if he can soak up damage and constantly ram you!
02/06/2009 at 22:19 jalf says:
@Scribbles: Of course? Then why haven’t they said so? It’d be a fair amount of work to make the two games compatible in any form. And honestly, calling people morons because they don’t believe the same rumors as you seems a teeeny bit ridiculous and hard to take seriously.
As long as Valve talks about L4D2 as a separate game, I’m going to assume it is a separate game. If you can get a quote from Valve that says otherwise, let us know, but until then, don’t call people morons because they stick with what they know.
02/06/2009 at 22:22 Nate says:
WEll I hope Vavle dont make this habit. If they start to do this with other titles or try to do this again on the next patch or update to L4D it will blow up big time. You can fool some of the people sometime , but you cant screw with the people all of the time and eventually it will BITE you in the behind.
02/06/2009 at 22:27 Nate says:
Oh and while this is completely out of topic TF2 should be Valves standard mold when it comes to How to Make a Fantastic Game . TF2 will be around for a many long times.
Its the only title i can think of that has LASTING power alla D2
Hopefully they won’t won’t lose sight of L4D2 and start to correct the mistakes they made with L4D such as many of the opinions made by others here. You cant make a game , charge your User fan base and then turn around and offer little or no updates or patches, it just won’t work and is bound to fail.
02/06/2009 at 22:29 nakke says:
I hate long comment threads. And vans.
02/06/2009 at 22:39 Rad says:
And so begins Valve’s slippery slope into becoming an EA clone.
It seems Valve’s bottom line got a sweet little taste of how a holiday hyped release can be, and they wants more. Hey, why wait a year? Who cares if the “hardcore gamer” market gets pissed off for the original game being implicitly abandoned? Just continue to:
1. Slowly move from a PC-centric approach to a console approach which gets marginally ported to PC [saw some of this @ 1.0 version of first L4D, i.e: lack of server browser, controller based approach to Front-End, Match-making, etc...]
2. Flood TV and print with advertisements, paying no mind to why those ads succeeded in the first place. [New concept in terms of popularized games, co-op element not yet standard fare, but it soon will be. Wait 'till that glow of newness wears off and we get to Left 4 Dead 2012]
3. Release a “new” version [translation: repackage of last years]version every year.
4. Always make this release close to X-Mas. Gotta get that big payday. It’s only been 9 months since no.1, but whatever.
5. Don’t make any substantial changes to the game’s engine, and certainly do not develop a new engine just for “another years release” the buzzword will be “dramatically modified version of the games engine”. Translation: Minor tweaks.
6. Reduce “DLC” to a mere hyped promise — left largely unfulfilled. With what’s added being “created” by repackaging existing campaigns, or by disabling a few things that were going to be part of the original release, but are instead released as DLC in order to give the appearance that they are “committed offering new DLC”.
If Valve wants to destroy their place as one of the last reliable “PC game” makers, this is a surefire recipe for it.
No matter what the “effort” Valve thinks they are putting into such games, the incentives and constraints of this strategy ultimately will condemn them to mediocrity over the long term. For example, compare EA’s NHL ’97 to NHL ’07 for an easy example.
For all their economic success, the EA model of making/branding games (especially sports games) is the cancer of video game culture. Valve has built a reputation on great support and many quality DLC packs for their multiplayer games [e.g, CS, Team Fortress 2], and the existence of “another $50 plz” L4D 2 moves against that reputation. While the release of that game will not yet put Valve in the same mediocre category as EA, there are ominous parallels between what they are doing now and what EA did in the late 90′s.
02/06/2009 at 22:43 Denton says:
Interesting that you prefaced a slippery-slope argument with the phrase ‘slippery-slope’.
Let’s wait and see before passing judgement.
Edit: ninja’d by Pshychopomp who was far more succinct in his assessment.
02/06/2009 at 23:02 Crispy says:
“For those knocking Valve on releasing a “half finished” L4D. Total up your hours playing it and compare it to another game.”
I take your challenge and hereby submit Counter-Strike, Team Fortress Classic, Day of Defeat and Natural Selection. Each of these games has held my attention for more time than Left4Dead, and each of these games was free for significantly longer than the duration of time I describe. Of those four, I probably played Day of Defeat the least, and I think I still spent ten times the amount of hours in that game than I did in L4D.
In retail terms this year I have spent more time playing Dawn of War 2, which despite horrific matchmaking, less individual levels, shorter matches and utilizing the abomination that is GfW LIVE, has given me more in terms of balance updates and extra content.
Survival mode for L4D was a waste of space. A mod team could have done better with the L4D SDK. I played a modded version of Dead Air and Death Toll Versus based on the original maps before the update was made, and I honestly don’t think these additions could have taken long to create (‘adapt’ is the more appropriate word). The only reason they weren’t in the original release is because they are inferior as Versus campaigns and Valve were probably a bit precious with releasing subpar content. They essentially play almost identically to the modded versions.
For this reason I regard all the extra content in L4D to be worth what it was released for. TF2 has done this (on the whole, but with decreasing success) better, and I am yet to see a TF3 for 2009.
02/06/2009 at 23:23 Rad says:
Have I gotten my $50 worth of L4D? Sure. But that is not the point.
Would I pay $50 for a L4D 2? Sure. But even that is not the point.
The point is that most gamers made the purchase of L4D under the assumption [which was grounded in the evidence of Valve's statements] about how the DLC would come out faster for L4D and how there would be plenty of it.
It hasn’t.
So far gamers purchasing L4D have received a re-branding of the crescendo events called, “Survival Mode” and “Two new versus maps” which are really the enabling of Versus mode on the other two campaign maps — which should have came ready to play in the first release. And now the announcement that the reason for this lack of DLC is because they wanted to work on a retail sequel?
so @ haters: You have to understand the context of what is going on.
Valve’s multiplayer games are particularly popular due to their continual updates and DLC. Valve proclaimed that L4D would be even better on this front, but at this stage of events that seems like a lie — and gamers are justified in feeling this way. A retail release date for an L4D 2 at this point flies in the face of what has kept Valve relevant, popular and distinct from other gaming studios.
Many gamers feel betrayed, even those who would have happily purchased L4D 2 a mere year later — if the first game hadn’t been promoted with false promises.
02/06/2009 at 23:24 Kadayi says:
@Crispy
Given CS, TF2, DoD etc have all been out way longer than L4D I think you’re being a bit disingenuous in your answer to that particular question.
02/06/2009 at 23:33 Meat Circus says:
So, people are most angry that Gabe Newell lied?
Good Christ, we should be.
02/06/2009 at 23:34 Rad says:
There was no Team Fortress III announcement 6 months after II’s release, it’s not the same at all.
03/06/2009 at 00:09 MagicAccent says:
I have to admit that I too feel a little let down by Valve, as I would be by anyone promising something, and then not fulfilling their promise.
I clearly remember thinking “Ok, it’s a great concept, it does not quite have enough content to be fully priced. But hey, if Valve say they’re going to fix it, they will”.
Maybe they still will keep ‘patching’ L4D, but DLCs? No, unlikely.
I understand that they had a bunch of great ideas that wouldn’t really fit into a DLC, and that’s great. But it is beside the point when the disappointment does not lie with the product, but with Valve.
Because really, what is the point of making a full priced game that is short on content and then instead of adding content(as promised(No no, survival does not count, it had ’1′ original map)), instead make a new game “as it should have been”.
Hopefully, they will make peace with the disappointed part of the community, and really deliver on their promises with L4D2.
Seriously, who’d figured the day would come when games would complain about a game being made, by Valve no less. Surely, this is the first sign of a real apycalypse..
(Also, wth if up with that shirt?!)
03/06/2009 at 00:45 FU says:
this is just a way for valve to make more money but it’s like a f u to the l4d players. it’s way too early for them to come out with a second one when they should add more maps to the first one. kinda lame that the “two new maps” are old maps and survival mode was just a quick fix so people stop complaining about new material.
03/06/2009 at 01:04 Senethro says:
I’m ashamed for all of you on your behalfs. Behalves. Whatever.
This isn’t the kind of behaviour I’ve come to expect on this blogs comments!
03/06/2009 at 01:15 sigma83 says:
Senethro: I reckon that because RPS got the exclusive there’s an influx. I don’t recognize a lot of names
03/06/2009 at 01:30 DerangedStoat says:
After reading through every post so far I think the basic reason for a lot of the anger here, is not because of the release of a better sequel, but becuase L4D may not end up being what they had paid for (due to the sequel coming out so soon).
People don’t want to look back on a game they like and think it “just didn’t end up being worth the $50 like I had hoped/been lead to believe”.
Call it false entitlement or whatever you like, but some people value things differently to others, and obviously there are people who expected more to come for their $50, and thus are feeling a bit ripped off.
(Now this is all under the presumtion that there isn’t going to be any extensive DLC for L4D, and even if there is, then there is the worry of a split player base in the future)
No one wants to see support of a game they play dissapear.
For the record, I think I got my moneys worth from L4D as it currently stands, but I will be watching to see if, and how much, L4D continues to be supported as has been promised, as it will definately influence my purchase of L4D2.
03/06/2009 at 01:37 Annie Moose says:
People- let’s not forget that this is Valve. This is Valve. Remember 2003? Remember Half Life 2? Remember all that great outcry of “Gabe Newell, you lied, we hate you, Half Life sucks, etc. etc.”?
Now let’s fastforward a year. What happened to all the “O noez, we hatez teh Valve” comments? Oh, right. They disappeared. Because Half Life 2 was AWESOME. So I haven’t given up hope yet. Valve is good. Really good. And maybe L4D2 will suck, but let’s give them a chance first. November 18 we can say it sucks, but until November 17, shut up.
03/06/2009 at 01:38 whitebrice says:
Never once since playing Half-Life did I ever think I’d say this, but I kinda feel a little disappointed by Valve. I gotta agree with most of the other commenters, one year seems a little early, and I was expecting more content updates for L4D.
One thing this announcement makes me ponder: Obviously Valve’s “Cabal” process for development produces great games, but how profitable is it? Seems to me that most of this new stuff could have been added onto L4D a little chunk at a time as they’re doing for TF2, but instead Valve’s decided to experiment with their lesser IP, seeing if they can get people to pay for this stuff in a big chunk.
The only reason I can see for this is that they’re not making money on their games as it is. I mean, how many years did HL2 take? Double that for TF2, and they’re still adding new content for it for free! Sure the games have sold well, but only well for PC games. I just wonder how they can be making money on this stuff.
03/06/2009 at 01:42 jalf says:
@Annie Moose: Thanks for completely missing the point. No one is upset because they think L4D2 will suck. People are disappointed because Valve is abandoning the game they paid $50 for. Even if L4D2 is the best game ever, that doesn’t change this fact. Valve was very explicit before releasing L4D about how they’d support it with lots of free DLC, new types of infected, new weapons and new maps.
They dropped all those plans, and instead decided to charge money again for basically what they originally promised to deliver in L4D.
The quality of L4D2 has nothing to do with it.
03/06/2009 at 02:24 Meat Circus says:
@Senethro
I’m an RPS regular, and I’m extremely angry at the PR catastrofuck Valve have caused by lying about their expansion plans for L4D, and then trying to fob off DLC as a sequel.
03/06/2009 at 02:49 Fallout says:
Is it just me, or is the charger just a rippoff of a tank…
The only difference is that its half and half, and it rams ppl…
Seriously???
03/06/2009 at 03:05 apnea says:
Person 1: Oooh, shiny new marketing bauble !
Person 2: *skepticism/criticism*
Person 1: Oh, you’re such an AIM, you.
Person 2: I’m not angry.
Person 1: Sigh. We used to have such intelligent discussions on RPS…
—
Just a thought: going meta on other people’s comments never make for intelligent discussion. And yes, this here comment is included. Hopefully, it’s the last of its kind. One can dream.
03/06/2009 at 03:15 smexy pants says:
i think it is pretty early, but if the game can deliver all the content it promised, i think it will be an awsome game.
03/06/2009 at 03:53 Spock Cat says:
Valve: “So, how do you like the game?”
Spock Cat: “I think it’s a well made game and..”
Valve: “Great! Well, we’re going to be a selling L4D2 at the end of the year!”
Spock Cat: “It hasn’t even been a yea..”
Valve: “It’s not a expansion either it’ll be the a whole new game that’ll cost another 50$”
Spock Cat: “You dirty mother fu..”
Valve: “Yes! We’re always listening and caring for what the gamers want!”
I’d still buy the game since I do think it’s one of the best games to come out in recent years, but it does feel that Valve didn’t put the time and care they should have in the first game. With that said, I hope they atleast give a 50% discount to those who already own the game or something to that effect. This really is capitalism at its finest.
03/06/2009 at 05:35 BlazerKnight says:
Chalk one up for the”disgruntled” side. Ironically, I recently defended Valve for the Sniper/Spy update, which people believed would ruin the game. I reasoned, it’s free, so why complain about new content? And here L4D2 appears to smack their loyal customers in the face. Also I noticed some people are saying that we have an entitlement complex, and that Valve needs to pay their employees. There’s a reason why they do free TF2 updates. The buildup to release, the Meet the Spy video, the free weekend, they’re all to entice new customers to buy the game. TF2 sales spike every time they make a major update. And I don’t see why they couldn’t continue the tradition with L4D, which they did promise. If the new content came in incremental patches, I’d evangelize the game to more friends. As it stands now, I’m going to be highly skeptical of L4D2 until proven otherwise. E.g. if it turns out to be part of a huge Orange Box-like bargain including Portal 2 and Episode 3… what? I can dream, can’t I? :P
03/06/2009 at 06:35 Quests says:
The fact that they realized the “camping in the closet” (during the push buttons situations, which btw were boring and repetitive) moments are a horrible mistake they didn’t predict, and that now they’re changing it for the new game, shows that the prequel is to be trashed and forgotten, and that ppl who bought it and liked it were… eer wrong… to like it.
Let’s celebrate the new game, then! Especially those who just bought the first game. And especially considering the prequel was so poor of contents, that they couldn’t simply patch it.
03/06/2009 at 07:01 Nitsuj15 says:
Im guessing that most of you here are to young to remember older consoles that never gave out free downloadable content and when every game, every sequel or prequel cost you 50$. With that being said left 4 dead is a excellent game and the next one looks even better I got to play it at E3 and it is freaking awesome. And for all the nay sayers out there just wait until the end of the year when it wins best multiplayer awards and left 4 dead won best multiplayer last year. But what happend was their ideas they had for the update of LFD became to large to be considerd free, the physics engine alone they used to make this game makes it so much better then the previous one. And the new melee weapons may sound like a bad idea, but it actually is awesome the first time you smash a zombies face wide open with the axe is pure gorey bliss. You may be upset now that they kinda broke their promise on LFD, but when the next one is out you will most likey change your negative view of LFD2.
03/06/2009 at 07:27 Tei says:
hummm…
03/06/2009 at 07:49 Vinraith says:
@Nitsuj
You’re guessing very, very wrong, I’ve been playing games since the Atari 2600. The way it used to work has no bearing on what Valve said they were going to do with L4D, nor with the impact L4D2 will have on the L4D play and mod communities. Virtually no one is claiming L4D2 will be a bad game, but there’s no question that releasing it this soon is a bad idea.
03/06/2009 at 08:10 blah says:
This will be the most pirated game ever.
03/06/2009 at 08:21 Malagate says:
El Edito: Was concerned about this, but then read up the comment thread and saw that he’d already posted a source from shacknews. Not sure it carries the same weight as an official valve announcement, but hot damn it’s good enough for me. I wonder what the time frame for all that added stuff for L4D is then? Assuming they’re still doing it (and I don’t see why not, even with a sequel that shouldn’t invalidate the old game necessarily).
In addition, I like how the new stuff is set during the day, partly why Blood Harvest is one of my favourite campaigns as it’s quite a bright one in the outdoor areas. Goes to show you don’t need it all dark and murky to be scary as well.
Furthermore, @Assassin, you might want to look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_bullets
Ammunition that burns and sets things on fire. It’s been around since WW1. That’s not something new.
Also I like the look of the Charger, he looks like some inbred hick from some horrible backwater, so it could be highly appropriate that he looks weird! Not to mention a charge which knocks back and incapacitates? That’s what Expert mode is for…and the big muscly arm is just as odd as having a zombie with a huge tongue and weird smoking blisters. If you really want a backstory just go with either a backwater hick (hence dungarees) or a pro armwrestler (they usually have one arm much huger than the other).
03/06/2009 at 08:23 Gnome says:
Ok peopel seriously L4D by far is the best game on the market, if you want to talk about a game having short shelf life and little content to download lets talk about the call of duty series or the dynasty seris serisouly grow up and accept that if your dont buy this new game you will be left in the dust. Accept that this world is about improving things and making money not foolin around on old product Heck look at the sport series BORING!!! short of NHL
03/06/2009 at 08:34 Gaminpro says:
Guys CALM DOWN, you don’t have to buy it if you don’t want to >_< Everyone is commenting as if they HAVE to buy it…. WTF guys? Valve just wants mulah, wouldn’t it suck if they went under? ( doubt it ) and melee weapons are awesome. New charactors, chainsaws, and different zombies and you guys are COMPLAINING ?!?! whatever im gettin it, even if my wallet hurts, i need moar zombiez!
03/06/2009 at 09:56 Migz says:
You guys have it all wrong, all great games come out with a sequel within a year or less of each other, look at the CoD games and even the halo games werent that far off and we are expecting another Halo game in November. Just give the new left for dead a chance.
I am just as upset about a new one so soon but hey whatever.
03/06/2009 at 10:42 Okami says:
Some of the posts here really deserve to be featured on “Conspiracy Theorists Say The Darndest Things”.
03/06/2009 at 11:13 Kadayi says:
@Meat Circus
How on earth does L4D2 qualify as DLC in your books? What’s the rationale behind that? It’s clearly a much bigger game than the original plus they’ve incorporated area damage, melee weapons, new opponents and more guns, plus a whole slew of new characters. Is LaTD bigger in scope than GTAIV?
03/06/2009 at 12:18 Meat Circus says:
@Kadayi:
New maps, new weapons, new special infected, new playable characters, i.e. all the things that Gabe lied about last autumn when he said they’d be made available for content-lite L4D. It was Gabe’s promise that made L4D seem worthwhile as a full-price release, because it wasn’t with the amount of content it actually shipped with.
03/06/2009 at 12:26 CMaster says:
@Annie Moose
For some reason that comment makes me think of Valve as being like The Doctor. Sure, he let/caused a few (thousand) people to die. But he is brilliant, really brilliant and will save the day!
Also, I think only 1/2 people actually think L4D2 will be a bad game. To me it sounds like they learned a lot from the first one (creshendo events/finales are rubbish, the game needs to stick to being about keeping moving and that for versus at least, there is a gap between the normal specials which are more of an irritant than anything else and the (moderatley) powerful tank).
03/06/2009 at 13:46 Kadayi says:
@Meat Circus
You seem to not understand the question here. Regardless of whatever may or may not have occurred in respect of the original, how exactly does a product that is clearly far larger in scale, scope and content that the previous title amount to ‘DLC’ when all other examples of ‘DLC’ by other developers have never surpassed the products they stem from in such a fashion? Is The Pitt more than FO3, is LaTD more than GTA IV? (which are not only DLC, but DLC you pay for)
Please try an answer that doesn’t resort to the ‘Gabe lied waa!!!!’ whilst working the pram approach. There is an inherent assumption of this being a deliberate planned betrayal, where as the truth is somewhat more likely that ideas came to the fore regarding how they could improve upon the original that simply couldn’t be dropped into the existing game (esp for 360 users) and were too good to forgo so a decision was made to make a new title to accommodate them. Sure one can bitch and moan about it (and yes in some ways it does suck), but if you’re that much into L4D that you’re that ‘pissed’ about it, then you’ve probably already garnered your moneys worth in terms of man hours out of it already, and if you claim you haven’t, I doubt very much that another campaign strapped onto the original is going to change your opinion about the ‘worth’ of that game as a whole either.
03/06/2009 at 14:00 C4Cypher says:
Was L4D worth the money I paid for it? I’m not sure.
I want to reinforce that we as consumers were indeed promised TF2 style updates before the release of L4D … it was this expectation that allowed us to accept what felt like an unfinished game at full price. We trusted Valve to finish it on their own terms, and to allow Modders to add the content that allows any Valve game to flourish.
The modding community and support therof has always been Valve’s greatest strength.
Now, the content that we had every right to expect at some point for L4D is being packaged up for another full priced package. The playerbase is going to be split between those who ‘upgraded’ and those who didn’t. The map makers are going to shift their focus from the primary to the sequel.
As much as I want to see the new content, I’m really starting to feel like a sucker for adopting early. Yes it’s a tad melodromatic to claim that ‘Left4Dead’ was the Beta, but that sentiment does accurately potray the betrayed expectations we felt that we had a right to feel entitled to.
EDIT: The PItt was not greater than Fallout 3, but Broken Steel clearly expanded the gameplay of the original game in a way that the playerbase was asking for in the beginning.
It feels a little cheap to call a game that not only uses the same engine, but the exact same models for enemies (no graphical upgrade for smoker and hunter?) … It may have the added content of a sequel. But for a game that felt unfinished at purchase but with the promise of more, what has been shown so far really does look like the promised DLC packaged up with some cool new stuff to milk us for another full price purchace.
03/06/2009 at 14:27 bushidogamer says:
I know spoken words aren’t legally binding but call me old fashioned. When people say they’re going to do something, within reason, they should keep their word. Left 4 dead 2 is nearly everything I hoped the original would be and yet I have no desire to pay for it, especially after hearing this:
“Left 4 Dead 1, like I said, had some of those fundamental things that we wanted to change about it, like the changes to the director, which took really long periods of time and a really long period of testing”[1]
What this says to me is, Valve, you all know…
I’m such a sucker for no longer being able to wait more than two years and pre-ordered the first game on day one.
[1] – http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/02/left-4-dead-2-will-last-much-longer-as-a-platform/
03/06/2009 at 14:51 pagettypol says:
Left 4 Dead 2 – the Daily Rodent considered opinion
03/06/2009 at 15:03 pkt-zer0 says:
“Left 4 Dead 2 will last much longer as a platform”, eh? The same way L4D 1 provided even more frequent DLC than TF2 did? New campaigns/characters/weapons/bosses?
It should be interesting to see how much the loss of goodwill is going to cost them.
03/06/2009 at 15:16 Hunam says:
I’m fairly disappointed with this announcement too and a little confused as the RPS’ staffers for not understanding the fallout from it, perfectly reasonable considering Valve’s usual fair with their titles.
03/06/2009 at 15:34 C4Cypher says:
A lot of the emotion feuling the AIM on this, especially considering the PC focused nature of RPS, is the fact that this isn’t just about Left 4 Dead. When L4D was released, it was released to two very different audiences, PC owners and 360 owners, both with very, very different expectations.
To ignore the growing schism between PC gamers and console gamers when considering this announcement is to ignore much of the core cause of all this drama.
Speaking firmly from the PC side of the coin, the most I can offer to the console perspective is disdain, just to let my bias be known. If Valve were ‘just another software company’ this wouldn’t be the issue it is.
A very long and constant trend in the gaming industry has been to shift focus from PC development to console development. PC exclusive franchises have not been immune to this, and the most painful casualties. Deus Ex 2, Bioshock are two titles that come to mind that would have been very different had they not been developed for the Xbox first, there are many others.
I can only speak for myself, but as a PC gamer, I am sick and tired of buying games that are effectively ports from another platform. Add insult to injury if said game was a sequel to a PC exclusive game.
Up until this point Valve has stood above the crowd on this, catering directly to my tastes as a PC exclusive gamer when nobody (and I do mean nobody) else would.
Valve’s move here evokes a feeling of betrayal not just when it comes to a single title, but it indicates a frightening move twoards the direction more … profit motivated developers are taking.
If Valve stops catering to it’s PC audience, an audience one can argue it has owed much of it’s success to … it leaves PC gamers without many options when it comes to quality titles that were developed for the full functionality of their chosen platform.
I’m not angry so much as worried … I don’t want to see Half-Life 3 get the same treatment that System Shock’s inspiration got when it was simplified down to Bioshock. I’m not saying Bioshock was a bad game, far from it, but despite the game’s excellence, I still was painfully aware I was playing a game meant for the limited button set of a console controller.
As a consumer I only have my voice and my pocketbook … and I vote with that pocketbook. However, if the new’ profitable market’ that the consoles provide outstrip the profit loss that my lack of pruchase (and that of those like me) … the developer will not change, and we will get left in the dark.
We’ve seen this shift with Nintendo … who has shown an increasing lack of intrest in it’s core consumer base in favor of it’s newer, massively profitable, ‘casual’ market.
PC gamers have been fighting an uphill battle on this issue for over a decades now, and we’ve felt for the longest time that Valve had our back.
This announcement is making it crystal clear that Left 4 Dead is being developed for the 360 first, and we’ll be left picking up the scraps. I feel like a sucker for supporting the move, and I feel betrayed. Fool me once …
Oh, and for those who tell me to simply ‘get used to it’ … I buy what I want to buy, and the only response I would have for them would be my middle finger raised high. I’m not going to take this from the gaming industry sitting down. And I hope this isn’t a sign of things to come from Valve.
03/06/2009 at 15:42 JonFitt says:
All other things aside, when you announce a sequel and a huge percentage of your core players erupt in rage and disappointment, there is something wrong.
Normally a sequel announcement is by and large a time of rejoicing and speculation.
03/06/2009 at 16:09 bushidogamer says:
pagettypol, you don’t even give a genuinely good reason. People aren’t idiots. This is coming from Valve themselves: http://gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19523
Shitty opinion is shitty.
“Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” – Douglas Adams
P.S. – Valve showed off incendiary ammo in their conference video so your redundant request for flare gun is redundant.
P.P.S. – Stay classy.
03/06/2009 at 16:54 Noob Gamers says:
Can’t wait to play it! and have a server for my community going.
03/06/2009 at 17:33 Fumarole says:
Incendiary ammo equals flare gun? Uh, ok.
03/06/2009 at 17:40 bushidogamer says:
Nope. I never said it equaled anything, just excessive. I was assuming he wanted to light zombies on fire by shooting it at them. You could use it for help, I guess? It’s a game where you have to go find help though, not the other way around. So knowing Valve and their penchant for solving multiple problems at once, I doubt it.
03/06/2009 at 18:05 Tony Montana JR says:
Why are you douchebags complaining about them releasing this only a year after the first L4D? Also a lot of you are saying that “They had this planned all along” as being the reason for it being released this quick. Did you ever stop and think that because theyre using the exact same engine, character models etc. that that may be the reason they could pump out a sequel this fast?
All I see when I come to these sites are people complaining about not getting free content for theyre games, or having to pay too much for the content they do get. You know what you should do? Put down the controller and go get a job! I live in a country where games cost $80 to $85 bucks each, and I dont complain. No why cause I’m a grown man, I work, and I pull in 70k a year.
Anyway, with all that said, I’m hella excited about this game. F*ck Yeah!!! Enjoy bitching and still playing the original L4D while the rest of the world enjoys the sequel….. Bitches! LMFAO!
03/06/2009 at 18:20 bushidogamer says:
Peoples’ complaints aren’t unfounded. Based on Valve’s track record, they’ve always provided free content long after the initial purchase price. While concrete decisions haven’t been made yet, the mere notion that Valve wants to charge content they said they would give us comes off as completely uncharacteristic of them. They’ve been around for over a decade. You would think you know them by now, but no.
03/06/2009 at 18:52 Senethro says:
Comment 500!
Noone post anything else, its done.
03/06/2009 at 18:55 Torgen says:
ok.
03/06/2009 at 19:34 Tony Montana JR says:
Let’s go for 1000
03/06/2009 at 19:44 Anonymous says:
I’m looking forward to Left 4 Dead 2, i can’t wait until 17th November! It’s going to be good, and stop whining about how you didn’t get free DLC for the original. Any free DLC is a gift from the heavens, they don’t have to do it, you should be glad they’re still patching the game.
03/06/2009 at 19:45 Zoey says:
Isn’t that the SCOUT from Team Fortress 2? How did he make it into this game and not the Medic. Man the Medic always gets shat on!
03/06/2009 at 19:49 Tei says:
I hope incendiary ammo is removed. If that ammo can fire the tank, is totally overpowered. If not, is lame. And anyway, the 2th advice about zombies is DONT PUT ZOMBIES ON FIRE!. Maybe this guys are infected, but you start putting zombies and fire, and next thing you know, you are tryiing to kill zombies with poison or with a knife.
03/06/2009 at 20:12 AD5 says:
Most of the people here seem to be complaining about the price…if you are, continue playing L4D which you payed ‘so much for’.
For all those complaining about daylight campaigns, can you handle even the slightest change? The new environmen will be interesting and completly change the way special infected and the survivors behave. Also, only some campagins will be set in day and almost all indoor areas will be pitch black but for film grain.
For people who are complaining about the ‘comical’ new melee weapons…Valve are the creators of TF2, you must have thought something like this would appear at some point.
Aside from this, the three new special infected should offer variety and fun to the game, integrating them into L4D would be too hard and require drastic campaign changes.
The graphics look improved and everything seems a lot more gorey. My only complaint is that the survivors don’t catch my interest as the previous ones from L4D did.
03/06/2009 at 20:45 Kadayi says:
@C4Cypher
“EDIT: The PItt was not greater than Fallout 3, but Broken Steel clearly expanded the gameplay of the original game in a way that the playerbase was asking for in the beginning.”
Expanding the game play still doesn’t remotely equate to the proposition I put before you.
03/06/2009 at 20:52 Fumarole says:
Saying it makes it redundant means you most certainly implied they’d serve the same purpose. You know, equality in the game’s mechanics. A flare gun could be used to, I don’t know, illuminate a dark area? Nah, let’s just continue making assumptions. After all, it’s what this comments thread seems to be living off of.
03/06/2009 at 20:55 C4Cypher says:
Tell me, why would it be ‘too hard’ to integrate new enemy types into the existing codebase, when all of the other elements in the ‘sequel’ appear identical? Remember, enemy placement isn’t a part of the map, it’s dynamically implemented by the AI director. Look up the video on youtube that shows a game of L4D played on the TF2 CP_Dustbowl map.
Please, enlightenm me … what drastic changes, what massive overhaul of the game engine do you refer to? The weapons I’ve seen for L4D2 appear to be reskins of the weapons from left 4 dead. The SPAS12 has the exact same reloading and firing rate as L4D’s autoshotgun … only difference being the weapon model and sound effect.
It’s perfectly understandable why Valve South is doing this … Microsoft won’t allow the content updates on the 360 in the same way that TF2 has been receiving on the PC. 360 owners would have to pay out for every single peice of content Valve dribbled out. This is why we haven’t seen the class updates on the 360.
There is no real mystery here. Valve South is developing this game with the 360 owner in mind, and in the process, forcing the PC owner into the same abusive, impractical buisness model that Microsoft demands for the 360. Apparently it’s better to make us pay for a sequel than to make us pay for every little breadcrub of content they might have added to the game otherwise.
Edit: @Kadayi
I actually think I’ve adressed your ‘proposition’ in the post above. From what I can see the ‘scope’ of the game isn’t that much larger. The engine and framework are the same. The AI director is changing, new zombie physics, new specials (alongside identical models of the old specials) some of the maps will be a bit dynamic. TF2 has seen far bigger changes to it’s framework than this.
I’m not upset because I think Valve intentionally lied to us when they released L4D, I’m upset because I think that Valve is making a buisness descision with the Left 4 Dead franchise that negatively impacts the PC consumer in favor of the 360 consumer, and in the process, breaks earlier committments made concerning plans to expand Left 4 Dead for the PC community.
Valve games have been successfull because Valve has included it’s userbase in the process, and made it reasonably possible for the consumers themselves to build upon the product that Valve provided. In the past both the consumer and Valve have both benefited from the result. No other company has effectively done this.
This move discards that so that the game can conform to a third party’s arbitrary buisness model.
03/06/2009 at 21:20 Funky Badger says:
C4Cyper: interesting points on the difference between console and PC audiences. But juast look at the reaction of the PC audience – to use your terms. How are Valve menat to monetise a howling mob that want’s money for nothing?
03/06/2009 at 21:22 Funky Badger says:
Also: thought experiment: imagine the L4D2 announcement was never made… are you happy with L4D?
03/06/2009 at 21:24 C4Cypher says:
With respect, Funky, I think that this article from RPS answers your question better than I could.
Specifically:
The TF2 updates really pay off, with sale spikes after every update. 106% increase in sales. The ability to gift accounts has lead to a 71% increase in sales. It also helped retail, with revenue increase 28%. Also, a 75% increase in new users of Steam generally. The point I’d take from that is that Valve’s policy of offering more to consumers is actually the smart commerical thing to do, assuming the increase in revenue is enough.
To answer your other question … yes, it’s an excellent game with huge room to grow with community and modder support. I have some issues with it. I want the matchmaking service to be optional, and to have the server browser availible from the main menu screen … this would facilitate the custom maps that have helped to make titles such as Counterstrike, TFC, TF2 and the like so successful.
Only until players can easily browse the playable servers will people have motivation to host custom servers.
03/06/2009 at 21:32 Vinraith says:
@Funky
“imagine the L4D2 announcement was never made… are you happy with L4D?”
Without any additional content? Not really. It’s simply too short on content, there’s a general sense of incompleteness about the thing. I got my $25 worth out of it (thank goodness that’s all I paid) but I can’t see going back to it without some new content.
03/06/2009 at 21:36 RoC1909 says:
Frankly, this is what you people get when you ASSume something. You ASSumed that Valve would give you all the goodies such as they did with previous games for free. Or that you would get a TON of stuff. Valve doesn’t have to do ANYTHING like that. Hell, they did enough for the PC gamers already. You guys pay less for games as it is so it’s about time you guys PONY UP the extra money that console gamers have been doing from DAY ONE!!! AND at a 10 dollar more starting price!!
03/06/2009 at 21:44 Tei says:
@RoC1909, Console players are paying more because is not a real market. Is controlled by microsoft, that say who can make a videogame, and get his part, the microsoft tax. Microsoft also get his part from gamers for the servers… but the PC have servers that are privatelly owned, so you don’t need to pay for the servers and almost all multiplayer FPS games are free.
You want to make a game for XBox? pay the SDK, pay the license, pay pay pay… For PC is free, theres really high quality librarys, SDK, engines, even resources…
03/06/2009 at 21:56 Funky Badger says:
Vinraith: fair enough if you weren’t happy with game in the first place. I was. So, erm, that’s that. I’m still playing as it happens…
C4Cyper: nothing in Valve’s past suggests they’ll stop supporting L4D though – I mean, TF2 is still supported after the release of L4D?
Tei: so Microsoft are using that old Nintendo/Sony/Sega pricing model eh? The bastards.
03/06/2009 at 23:07 Tei says:
@Funky Badger: so Microsoft are using that old Nintendo/Sony/Sega pricing model eh? The bastards.
obviusly s/Microsoft/((rand %2)?Sony:Nintendo)/g;
03/06/2009 at 23:15 C4Cypher says:
@Roc 1901
This interview at FiringSquad.com was posted March 07, long before Left4Dead actually released.
Michael Booth: Absolutely. We already have ideas for additional missions, features, and content that we hope to ship in future releases/updates to Left 4 Dead. In addition, an L4D-specific update will be made to the Source SDK so members of the community can make their own missions, characters, and L4D MOD content.
The expectation that this game would be given the same loving treatment that every Valve product has been given for the past Decade is hardly an assumption. Please, if you can’t speak with knowledge, and with civility on a topic, please be silent.
I can only speak for myself, but I (as well as some of the other posters here) have genuine concerns about the direction and precedent this sets. I am not resorting to inane ad-hominem attacks, I’m just laying out what I know, and *GASP* I’m actually providing links and refrences to back myself up. I can’t claim to be right about everything all the time, but please, I’m not trying to insult your mother, chill out.
@Funky Badger: You have a good point … however, what happens to the playerbase of L4D when the sequel releases? With the buggy matchmaking system and often unreliable servers, it’s hard enough as it is to find a stable game to play with, that is unless you happen to be lucky enough to have three friends who feel like playing at the same time you do.
When L4D2 releases, a good portion of the community will leave for the ‘upgraded’ version. (hell, I want to be one of them, despite the slap in the face it feels like), but even after L4D2 releases, will we still have to deal with the stupidity of the matchmaking service? How long will we have to wait before we get to play with custom maps, like this?
03/06/2009 at 23:22 MeestaNob! says:
A few thoughts after doing a bit of reading here and there:
- L4D 2 will be a standalone retail product on Xbox 360, purely because Microsoft wont let them release it as an upgrade DLC – it’s too big. TF2 gets an exemption because TF3 is many decades away – a patch is the only way to bring new content to console gamers.
- L$D 2 will probably be offered as plug-in/add-on DLC for L4D on PC, for a lower price than a full title. Existing owners will get a launch day discount to counter any further lingering “I’ve been had!” gripes (of which there are, with current info, rightfully many). Personal uneducated guess: Owners of L4D with Steam friends who own L4D 2 will, when electing to join their game, be given the option to purchase/upgrade to L4D 2 at a discount or whatever price that player bought the game for (excluding retail activated copies): ie If they grabbed it on release at the crazy low price, the other person can also have it at that price should they try to join the game. It’s not complicated, Valve have extensive records on everything, it’s more a matter of IF they want to implement it like that. They may just choose to sell it to everyone cheap as chips to get them along to the new game.
- L4D 2 will be part of a new Valve Coloured Box pack, certainly with HL2 Episode 3. Maybe with something else.
- Each Valve game features incremental updates of the Source engine. There will be no new new engine until Half Life 3. HL2 Episodes, despite official comments, is most certainly not HL3.
03/06/2009 at 23:40 MacBeth says:
@C4Cypher
In the podcast, and in other interviews (yeah, do some research before you speak ffs ;-) ) it has been pretty clearly stated that the new-and-improved matchmaking is imminent, in the next week or two. Even by Valve time that’s going to be soon.
04/06/2009 at 00:36 Walsh says:
What? Uh you forget the GTA IV DLC which was gigantic.
04/06/2009 at 00:52 Serondal says:
Fantastic I’ll probably get fired form my job for reading Tims comment ! Thanks mate.
04/06/2009 at 01:00 Fumarole says:
As has been said many times before in this very thread, but seemingly ignored, until a price is set for L4D2 this is all just wasted oxygen. It could be free, it could cost a few bucks, it could be fully priced.
Someone please point out to me where the price was mentioned, because I haven’t seen it anywhere.
04/06/2009 at 02:27 Serondal says:
Can we get someone to remove Tim’s comment please, it has no place on this comment thread or any where else for that matter.
04/06/2009 at 03:04 no says:
It’s only $50 on the PC. Don’t forget, it’s $60 on console — and as a long-time hard core PC gamer fanboy, let me just state that the PC gameplay has nothing over the console gameplay. I’ve found the experience, the performance, the people, and everything else far superior on the console than on my PC. In fact, I regret buying a second copy for PC.
04/06/2009 at 03:06 no says:
“As has been said many times before in this very thread, but seemingly ignored, until a price is set for L4D2 this is all just wasted oxygen. It could be free, it could cost a few bucks, it could be fully priced.”
The price HAS been set. Just go to Valve’s Steampowered forums for L4D2 and look at the first stickied thread. It’s $59.99. Of course, the fact that it’s called “Left 4 Dead ***2***” sort of makes it obvious that it’s going to be a full price game anyway.
04/06/2009 at 03:26 Loy says:
How cute, more content for an additional $50 dollars. After promising more content for free to sell the first game.
I,m not buying into the Valve SCAM this time around!
04/06/2009 at 03:42 joseph says:
are you kidding me!!!! are you jerkoffs really complaining about it coming too early. wow. maybe everyone should get off their high horse and shut their mouths. he obviously knows what hes doing hence the millions he made from the first game. count me in for l4d2. idiots!
04/06/2009 at 04:01 JKjoker says:
considering how fast they made it and how many idiots paid full price for the first one, L4D2 is going to be at most 75~100% as long as L4D
also considering how fast L4D’s price dropped i suggest waiting 3-6 months and buying it for 10 bucks
you don’t *have* to buy games the first day, you know, the sandman is not going to get ya for that, smart (legal) gamers wait a few months or even just a few weeks for extremely crappy games (aka, most of them) and buy games for a fraction of the initial rip-off value
as for the free updates and all, thats why i hate “updates”, DLC and “episodic” releases, you never know whats included with the game, it might have tons of great stuff like TF2/Warcraft3 or it might get support dropped a day after release like anything published by Atari, you might get enough content out-of-the-box to last you years like Master of magic/orion2 or you might get a blank canvas with the bare basic content to “run” and be forced to buy countless DLC for stuff that should have been included anyway like in The Sims.
all these updates, expansion, DLC, and “online store” crap has turned buying games into some kind of hellish casino where you always lose, never have fun and always leave with your pockets empty and your anus hurting
04/06/2009 at 04:07 Vinraith says:
@JKjoker
Well put, all of it. Particularly with the advent of download services there seem to be a lot of very deep discounts on games very quickly after their release, I haven’t paid full price for anything in better than a year.
And yes, it’s very hard to tell what you’re really getting anymore, which is why I tend to wait for those discounts.
I bought L4D for $25 (thank goodness I didn’t pay more), L4D2 looks to be worth about $10 to me.
04/06/2009 at 04:13 JKjoker says:
@Vinraith: waiting a little also lets you know if the Mummy-style river of windows-eating bugs get patched or not, a sad, but very real problem with games these days, how many never get patched ?, Dark Sector, that vista only one i cant remember the name of, anything by Atari, etc …
edit: oh yeah, and the online longevity, how many games have their servers turned into ghost towns after a month ?
04/06/2009 at 04:18 Vinraith says:
Yup, it also sometimes results in the more obnoxious copyright protection schemes being removed or amended. Really, unless you’re explicitly looking to prop up an independent developer by paying full price, there’s never any reason to drop $50 on a game.
04/06/2009 at 04:30 bushidogamer says:
Fumarole, why would you want to illuminate an area anyway? This takes place during daylight. Flashlights and barrel fires don’t cover the job already?
04/06/2009 at 05:32 LDOM says:
Sweet cant wait :D Im getting it for sure. the cost is nothing to me cuz i have a job and everything. it would been better to be a downloaded content instead but its all good either way. hope that’s all their adding to the game. :D
04/06/2009 at 05:35 Vinraith says:
“the cost is nothing to me cuz i have a job and everything.”
Yeah, when you work for a living you don’t care about getting ripped off. Wait, what?
You know, if you value your money so little I have this bridge you might be interested in buying…
04/06/2009 at 06:56 Cody says:
lol When they get to the helicopter at the end. Bill, Francis, Zoey and Louis should be in the chopper as a cameo. That’d be epic!
04/06/2009 at 07:30 sigma83 says:
I just realized I could probably make a business selling Angry Internet Men to people who don’t like certain things and get the online announcements/forums destroyed by hordes of snarling frothy zombi- er people.
or something.
04/06/2009 at 09:01 Kataron says:
Would you people stop wining already? Geez. Valve is a video game company, companies exist to make money, and you just want your stuff to be free, free, free.
If you hadn’t noticed, the economy isn’t doing so good. If they’re going to put this much effort into creating a product, they’re damn sure going to get paid for it. And they deserve it.
04/06/2009 at 12:28 danny laverty says:
get this game i will
should i get it on pc or 360 or isnt there any difference
04/06/2009 at 13:46 Iain "DDude" Dawson says:
FFS! On L4D DLC: “As for DLC though we’re not sure. But we’re kinda schizophrenic about that. We’re not used to having such a short development cycle, so we’ve still got people working on it and we’ll see how it works out.”
That. Is not. What you. Promised!
Thanks Chet Faliszek. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=216832&site=cvg
04/06/2009 at 15:52 tombraiderguy says:
I realized that they haven’t revealed all the juicy goodness of L4D2 yet. I’m sure there will be DLC. There is a new game mode that will be added and a focus on story.. I wonder if you can choose between a cast of characters or eventually will be able to with DLC. That would be cool because these characters do look a little more detailed….H,mmm. I need my Zoey back and her” Hahahahahaha” laugh back… She laughs so funny lol. I also need Bill and his “Argh” old man gargle.
I cannot wait to get my grubby lil tombraiderguy claws on it.
XD I CAN”T WAIT! LOL! It look exciting.. The Hazmat mat zombies look like Asylum Patients……Freaky….I wonder if we get to go in a zombie infested asylum. That would be really spooky. THEN OMG A WITCH!!!! AHHHHHHH! lol
04/06/2009 at 16:33 Capt.Cool says:
“Kataron says:
Would you people stop wining already? Geez. Valve is a video game company, companies exist to make money, and you just want your stuff to be free, free, free.”
Yes, we want it for FREE because it was A PROMISE!!!
You dont belive me? look at http://www.videogamer.com/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html
There Mr. Newell said “…we’ll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we’ll have the initial release and then we’ll release more MOVIES, more CHARACTERS, more WEAPONS, unlockables, achievements, because that’s the way you continue to grow a community over time.”
All we got now, after ONE YEAR is a lousy mini-map which was worth 10 minutes of playtime. Where are the new campain maps? Where are the new CHARACTERS??? Where the f*** are the promised NEW WEAPONS??? Its been a year now and NOTHING of that happend, so I really dont belive we will get any of that ever for L4D1. It was all a big lie!!!
04/06/2009 at 18:31 SpheareD says:
OK so someone made a valid point that will last three minutes in peoples minds before they reconsider your words and think hey no i am still being mugged off here. Yes the game has had more hours of our lives then any other game available but that doesn’t count for being mugged off. L4D is a mod and a very good one. What was the biggest complaint whilst we smashed hours of fun out of L4D? Can we have more then 4 campaigns and more then two vs please. so that was eventually sorted. We have the game for under a year and they want to move on????? Here’s an idea to put to Valve, for those of us who paid full price for your excellent MOD should get a % off of the next installment as you took far too long to sort all the issues of a brand new MOD and also left us with the same few levels over and over again. In fact speaking to a few friends in March and all we could moan about was the fact we paid for a MOD that was still in Beta. L4D2 looks great but still why buy this one when it will become as obsolete as the first one. Also this dig is from me personnel = Make vs and the entire game maps edited like Survival mode [no more safe spots for you manginas out there, 2 Make the player models solid so four morons squeezed into a corner can not do so anymore making the player models solid. 3 enable players stats liek the consoles do allowing you to punish fking RAGERS!!!!!!!!!!
04/06/2009 at 21:24 Kadayi says:
@C4Cypher
You claimed ‘Broken Steel’ was bigger than FO3, which it utter utter BS. My position was when has DLC (esp free DLC) ever been greater than the original product, so far no ones come up with a valid example.
Anyhows you can put your half cocked conspiracy theories regarding ‘Valve lying to us’ to rest as Doug has explained events and rationale behind L4D2, which rather uncannily tie in exactly with my thoughts earlier in this thread on how things went down: –
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/04/valve-on-l4d2-trust-us-a-little-bit/#comment-200854
05/06/2009 at 00:32 Rt Hon T Blair says:
I can’t see how people can compare L4D and TF2
First of all TF was not even a real game it was a mod of HL2
Second L4D2 from the sound of it will have much improved graphics, because to be honest as good as the original is the graphics were never current gen. and if you know any thing about games you will know that the graphical content is about 50% of the entire game.
Lastly how would you define a sequel but for improving every aspect of the game but keep the fundemental gameplay the same because that is what L4D2.
I hope that they release some sort of cross platform mode because from the sound of some of the people here they need to be shown how to play a game without having to resort to gliches and cheats, and before any one asks thos is not just fighting talk because on the 360 me and my friend when on the same team have never lost a game in versus mode.
05/06/2009 at 08:14 Kilaone says:
I cant believe the way some of you are complaing about a new L4D! valv has givin lots of free content to its gamers. free content cost money and time. you cant expect everything to be free thats not the way life works. now they make something thats improved maybe its just like they old one with more things improved graphics, weapons and whatever else their putting into it why not buy it? if its the same thing but better you know your getting what you pay for with alot more things that just cant be added with dlc for free. ppl loved the first one im pretty sure the second one will be good too. if moneys your prob cuz u bought the first one and enjoyed it but dont want to pay full price for a new game, well sell your l4d you probably wont get all your money back but hey now you wont have to pay full price for that new l4d2 lol. i think you can spare a few bucks for all that free dlc theyve givin you over the years.
05/06/2009 at 09:23 jesus says:
what new zombies will there be???
05/06/2009 at 11:17 Anonymous says:
They’ve only announced one, The Charger. Try and guess what it does
05/06/2009 at 12:50 Matthew says:
I think ive figured it out. Ep:3 obvsly is a big project right? So its gunna cost alot to knock out. And with the credit crunch and all valve will need more money to keep itself going. And thats what l4d2 is (Nothing against it im buying), whats paying for EP:3
05/06/2009 at 15:27 C4Cypher says:
@Kadai:
Good god, learn to read. I said that Broken steel expanded on the gameplay … specifically allowing players to explore the game after completing the main quest. What I’m getting at here is that this paticular feature provided far more value to me than the extra storyline and content.
Yes, the nice article you’ve linked to me as a counteraguement, showing Doug clarifing his position does not invalidate my concerns made before Doug Lombardi clairified his position.
Marginalizing my side of the discussion by calling it a ‘half cocked consiracy theory’ is essentially a mild ad-hominem attack, does not address it directly.
I’m not arguing that L4D2 will not be worth the money I proabably will be paying to play it. I’m adressing the fact that this announcement represents a distressing shift in Valve’s stance for how it supports it’s games after the fact.
Did I get my money’s worth from Left4Dead? Yes. Was I underwhelmed by the much touted ‘Survival pack’? Yes … many of the changes in which were things that really should have been a part of the game to begin with. Do I think that Valve purposely misled it’s consumer base on this issue? No.
My primary point of contention is that they would announce this sequel before facilitating community added content in the original game. L4D isn’t worth playing on these custom maps if you can’t access servers running these maps from the ‘matchmaker’ and if most of the other players to play said maps have already left on the sequel.
With all of that said, the interview of Chet Faliszek by Ars Techinca has done far more to allay my fears than your attempts to discredit my concerns.
Here’s a tip, trying to discredit people, rather than simply presenting your perspective in a discussion isn’t going to earn you any respect or cedibility.
05/06/2009 at 19:57 jalf says:
@Riboflavin: No, the insistence of fanboys like you to come along, and bash people without actually bothering to learn what said people are upset about is astounding.
If you have nothing better to do than trolling, could you please go somewhere else? If you want to participate in this discussion, could you at least do us the service of reading the posts you are replying to?
Thank you.
Perhaps you should look in the mirror before calling anyone “trashy contemptuous shitbags”.
06/06/2009 at 06:33 Psychopomp says:
“and if you know any thing about games you will know that the graphical content is about 50% of the entire game.”
No
“you might get a blank canvas with the bare basic content to “run” and be forced to buy countless DLC for stuff that should have been included anyway like in The Sims”
Yet again, no
““the cost is nothing to me cuz i have a job and everything.”
Yeah, when you work for a living you don’t care about getting ripped off. Wait, what?
You know, if you value your money so little I have this bridge you might be interested in buying…”
The average price for concert tickets are $10-15
The average concert is 1 hour, gets no post release patching, new songs, and once it’s over that’s it.
@people in general
If you think L4D was priced to high because the length of time it would take to play through the whole game…
1.Replay value, do you speak it?
2.I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face
If you think Ico and Shadow of the Colossus aren’t worth $50 because of they’re length, you’re absolutely daft, along with most of the gaming community.
Where did this strange notion come from that length=value?
A story should never be as long it needs to be.
07/06/2009 at 00:31 Tanner says:
OK everyone who doesn’t think this is gonna be awesome go fuck yourself. so what they want to make another game to the very successful L4D, fuck you guys. If you don’t wanna buy it then don’t i don’t want any of you whiny bitches online anyway
07/06/2009 at 01:50 James T says:
Gosh, the people who are against this are so negative!
07/06/2009 at 01:53 Psychopomp says:
“A story should never be as long it needs to be.”
Sentence fail
Read as “A story should bever be longer than it needs to be”
07/06/2009 at 02:42 bushidogamer says:
Once people start craving things for free, they no longer find those same things valuable.
07/06/2009 at 19:50 Austin says:
Seriously everybody, CALM DOWN! they just started talking about this new game. SHUT UP and give them time to improve. L4D2 is looking great to me and I very much want it (Not everyone is disapointed by improvement) Anyway, this game probably will improve and some of the released things may change or improve. But you gotta give valve time.
07/06/2009 at 20:00 Miss_Sedation says:
im so frakin excioted! all the people who think its too early to launch a sequal can go die in a firey hole. CoD for example, many of them are a year or so apart . So fuck all of you. Anywhoo, special infected time! the witch in L4D was a pain in the ass all together…and now she is walking around? suck on that inexperienced gamers >:D haha!!! and for the Charger, haha he looks funny XD. They should at least put the hunter in L4D2, other than that they should work on creating some new infected.
08/06/2009 at 02:39 Johnson says:
You know that they are still coming out with DLC for L4D this summer…
This game is too big to just put it out as DLC, people would have to buy new hardrives.
08/06/2009 at 07:33 bob says:
just listen to the dam podcast of l4d THEY WILL CONTINUE TO UPDATE L4D1 so quit Quit making complete fools of yourself saying something you don’t know about.
08/06/2009 at 07:37 FellowFreind says:
another thing its still A BETA so it will look a little odd at first i mean l4d preview and pictures looks quiet off yet people still got it its not like they are not breaking a promise if u think they are just click podcast up on the top of the screen then basically listen to the l4d thing and it tells you they will continue to update it so there you go.
08/06/2009 at 07:41 Fellowfreind says:
http://cdn1.libsyn.com/rps/20_The_RPS_Electronic_Wireless_Show.mp3?nvb=20090608062930&nva=20090609063930&t=0b7bc909618be9b89ba01 this is the link to the podcast.
08/06/2009 at 08:07 Rad says:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott
16k members @49.99 = $800,000.
Need to make it to about 40k to get attention.
There’s time before November.
09/06/2009 at 08:17 L00fah says:
I don’t expect free updates or anything of the likes, but I am upset that valve skimped out on the updates we were all promised for L4D. I only even got L4D due to the promise of constant updates. Although this was my first Valve game, I knew their rep as being VERY customer-friendly… This is kind of a low blow. I would happily buy this as a DLC, or even a mid-priced expansion… But an entirely new game separate from my L4D community?
That’s a move that should be thrown into the “This week in Fail-” category… Spells disaster for BOTH games… I would have rather Vavle had gone through with their promise on their FIRSt update (That being to introduce new infected, weapons, characters, campaigns, and acheivements)… instead I got a half-assed GEars 2 Horde knock off (which I do like, just sayin’) and one new map… Not at all what they said.
This is all kind of a let down, I hope for some bright news regarding “L4D2″ in the future.
09/06/2009 at 14:11 The Hessien says:
This looks awesome.. i almost always play with Arctic Scarecrow .. he’s rubbish, and screams like a girl but hopefully with L4D2 he’ll improve..
Frying Pan…. GENIUS!
10/06/2009 at 08:40 Austin AT says:
cant wait, must play game!!!! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH come out sooner. Maybe i can freeze myself like Eric Cartman on south park???? hurry up and come out already!!!!!! :(
12/06/2009 at 23:55 KC says:
L4D is the best online gaming experience I’ve ever had! Can’t wait for the sequel! Why would anyone have anything to complain about? These guys at valve are some smart cookies revolutionizing some aspects of gaming as we know it. Other companies will mimic valve’s gaming formula for years to come!
13/06/2009 at 03:23 Hyper says:
The one group of people that seems to be missing in most of the comments on the boycott group site and the articles on the web are the server owners.
As a server owner, I support L4D by paying for 4 West Coast servers out of my own pocket that have had in total roughly 17000 players since they were started 4 months ago. As well, I work for a server company that provides numerous servers for TF2, L4D, CS:S and other Valve games.
One disturbing trend I have seen is the daily cancellation of L4D servers. Since the ‘Survival Pack’ the company I work for has seen a 70% increase in server cancellations of servers that service Central North America and the West Coast. That number increases daily.
The biggest drop was right after the ‘Survival Pack’ when people began to realize how minor the changes actually were. Most people played Survival mode until they got the achievements and then moved back to Co-op or Versus. We lost 45% of the servers within days of that release.
The second spike was right after the news about L4D2. That was about 20% of the servers. The other 5% has been just due to attrition since the DLC was released.
Now, obviously there have been new servers started, but the total loss of server coverage totals about 70% in the company I work for, and I work for a shitty little hole in the wall no one even knows about. In actual numbers that means about 110 servers are now shut down in the past couple months with my employer alone. I wonder how this has affected Gameservers or Darkstar.
I should mention that most of the people canceling servers have been very vocal about why they’re canceling them, and I agree with the majority of their reasons, especially about the release of L4D2.
So, I pose this question to you, do you think splitting the games community base will increase or decrease the number of servers for both games?
Secondly, do you think server owners that are canceling their servers will be rushing out to start a L4D2 server after they feel that they’ve been burned by Valve?
The answers are pretty obvious.
All you flame-baiters screaming about the boycott group being a bunch of whining retards might want to think about that, because without the server owners, you’d have no where to play either game.
As for myself, I don’t have any choice but to ‘get’ the game since it’s purchased for me by my employer for troubleshooting and testing. However, I’ll be shutting down my servers the day L4D2 is released unless both games can be serviced by a single server and other significant issues about the release of L4D2 are satisfactorily dealt with by Valve.
15/06/2009 at 05:08 Jarrett says:
This boycott situation is out of control. Most people are just saying that there isn’t enough new content to warrant a sequel but from what I have seen, people are wrong. When Halo 3 came out what was the big difference between that and Halo 2? A new story which guess what L4D 2 has. New weapons which L4D 2 has. New characters which you can say that Halo 3 has if you count those two random elites but guess what L4D 2 has new characters. New maps yup they both have them. So if you don’t think L4D 2 shouldn’t be released because there isn’t enough new content then in that case Halo 3 shouldn’t be out because there isn’t enough new content for you.
15/06/2009 at 05:14 Über Nerd says:
What is this Halo you are speaking of?
17/06/2009 at 00:13 DBladez says:
i agree with KC, think of what they did to L4D with the random spawnings of zombies and if you are doing bad then there are no zombies, if you are kicking some zombie ass a tank just beats the crap out of you! what they have done is incredible! with the director and all that other stuff….. sure there may be bugs but they will fix them in time. stop your complaining! if there was so many bugs you would of gave the game back! plus aren’t Valve allowed to bring out L4D2 to what it seems to me most of you dont want it out because its too early…….WHO CARES! Real fans of valve will get this, play it and not bitch about it. for those who say they wasted money on the first game just for this one to come out… i could say that about the need for speed games why did i bother getting most wanted when carbon came out… wait then pro street, now undercover…. they involve cars that you can upgrade and RACE and invade cops (not pro street you just race on tracks) anything u say about L4D2 you can relate to most games with a secound part to it or 3rd part! like COD WAW why was that out, great game, great gore, realistic but why bother go back in time…. i dont care i think the game is billiant and sometimes better then COD 4 at times! anything u say about L4D 2 i could relate to a game!
I think L4D 2 will rock and i cant wait!! i got L4D on xbox only a few glitches but i dont use them because it spoils the game on campaign, none on verses so L4D2 on xbox… i think i can say money well spent already!
17/06/2009 at 00:18 DBladez says:
just something i like to add, they have removed some alot of bugs ill give one for example… in the elevator at no mercy you could chuck a pipebomb or object at a character and they would fall through, that got removed.
one more coming out of the sewers of no mercy you could plug the top with a bin, thats been removed, same with the elevator at the top with a generator! SO DONT SAY THEY HAVE NOT REMOVED BUGS! thats all!
17/06/2009 at 05:27 Zygoeths says:
Left 4 Dead is boring…. lolz….
The only possible way left 4 dead is boring is when you play with people who type oooorrrr….. Have no mic.
As for those who expected to have Valves same “Awesome storyline” or “Great gameplay” got just that. Just think about it…. Left 4 Dead has a GREAT storyline….. You just have to make it up. I think that was the whole point of not revealing anything. Also I think that L4D2 will be more than just an expansion, but a true sequel. Hell, I am a bit glad that valve is FINALLY releasing a game before the goddamn decade goes by.
As for the bugs….. The jesus room? Come on…. pure, awesome.
I have perfect confidence in valve. The only thing I have any concern about is that they will delay Half-Life: Episode 3!!!! NOT FREEMAN, DEAR GOD NOT FREEMAN!
I will be buying the game, and playing it.
As for the person who laughed at CoD 2. Burn the witch!
VALVE FOOOOOOOOOOREVVVVVVA!
17/06/2009 at 14:54 Bogartman says:
If i were to suggest another special infected, i would share the idea of one that will do a bear hug instead of a claw, and has the ability to hold any weapons for a short period of time.
17/06/2009 at 14:55 Bogartman says:
i know it sounds crazy, but think of the challenges it would pose, especially when it holds a hunting rifle, or a shotgun
19/06/2009 at 00:10 Cboy says:
Me and my friend played L4D and if this is as spectacuraly gory as the last game or better and longer than the last game I can’t wait to play it, and I can’t wait to try out that axe. lolololololol :)))))))))
19/06/2009 at 00:13 Cboy says:
Oh, by the way I hope the baseball bat make the “BOOIIINNK!!!” sound lol
19/06/2009 at 00:29 The Beast!!!! says:
haha yeah and then i heard thier going to include a light saber too its going to be awesome!!!!! haha
19/06/2009 at 11:25 farew says:
-
20/06/2009 at 06:23 Cboy says:
hey valve and steam and whatever other companies that are in the making of L4D2, me and my friend thought that there should be a revolver pistol as a choice for your pistol instead of the regular pistol, but instead of dual wielding it u dont dual wield the revolver.
21/06/2009 at 17:42 Bryan says:
It’s a whole new game, same name, sure, but new AI, new character models, etc, etc.
It’s more than an update, it’s a re-imagining.
Besides, £40/$50 whatever isn’t much to pay, especially if it’s for a year, if you play xbox 360 that’s about a years subscription.
You say you won’t play it, but chances are you’ll get over yourself and buy it.
22/06/2009 at 16:22 dark105p says:
Maybe Valve could make the game more interesting by including the four characters in L4D1 and show how the four of them meet up with the new characters in L4D2.
This way, we will have a total of 8 different characters to choose from for single player, CO-OP and multiplayer.
Also you can customize your own team like choosing your own teamates which the number of people in a team will remain as 4.
Eg. A team consisting of Bill, Coach, Zoey and Rochelle.
Also it will enhance the game abit by making a new achievement like a ‘all boys team’ by making a team only consisting of boys however all survivors must manage to escape in order to unlock this achievement.
22/06/2009 at 21:38 Daniel says:
This game is going to be awesome!!!
I KNOW IT !
AND IF ANYBODY DENIES IT I WILL HUNT THEM DOWN, and give them cookies.
23/06/2009 at 21:39 ldaj95 says:
i am surprised they made another left 4 dead but out of these characters i would pivk nick to play as
26/06/2009 at 11:57 ants-in-yer-pants says:
Don’t mind this being a new game, some of the new content looks fun. I just will not purchase it untill I see it offered at reduced cost whether that be a weekend deal soon after release or a year down the line. My L4D ‘friends’ are split on this, half are excited by this the other half refuse to purchase/talk about it/play it….. I can’t forecast the impact this will have on the communities in terms of numbers playing, full versus servers and available servers full stop?
What I do know is gamers aren’t a forgiving bunch, if valve get this wrong they could lose a lot of future sales, I know a lot of people (including myself) who refuse to buy EA games since the awful support & lack of action against the issues we experienced in the once great BF/2142 series… albeit to do with a different set of issues compared to L4D/L4D2.
Fingers crossed the final product will demonstrate its worth.
02/07/2009 at 21:44 Cboy says:
I am wondering if valve reads any of these comment if so I agree that you should be allowed to use the origanal L4D chracters in the new game
03/07/2009 at 04:25 rothnarr says:
I’m getting really p***ed off at all of this negative stuff.
First of all, Valve never said that they would stop support for L4D. Second, I want an episode 3 as well but I like Zombies more. Third, the dev team said that they want to create a whole new story and would absolutely not use the old characters and shrink the world like that. Forth, how can you say that a game lost it’s fun after a month? Maybe in your opinion, but last time I checked, there were still tens of thousands of people online playing at a given time. And more playing offline. And fifth like I said before, this is a completely new game. New features, new story, new characters, new weapons, new locations, and best of all, new A.I. Director. Sure this might be another “Oblivion with Guns” type of game, but hey! Fallout 3 was fun. And also, there is a team working on L4D2, not all of Valve. They could be working on Episode 3 without us knowing about it. A developer doesn’t have to show all of it’s projects at E3. So stop bitchin’ and read the reviews and ask opinions when the game launches.
03/07/2009 at 04:37 rothnarr says:
Also for the people who need the game to come out now, rather than in November, let me ask you this: Would you rather the game be released with unfinished levels, no voice acting, and the bad kind of glitches? I would rather a game be delayed than come out sooner, if that is what the company needs to do then they should do it.
03/07/2009 at 18:34 Jason says:
While the “run and gun” style triggered events will certainly make co-op more interesting does anyone else thing they are going to make vs. pretty much impossible? Its hard enough to move forward at a reasonable pace in vs. against a competent team with normal numbers of infected. With the undead swarm of a triggered event that pace will slow to a crawl which means MORE SWARM because you haven’t hit the end yet.
03/07/2009 at 23:25 Baphomet says:
@rothnarr
> Forth, how can you say that a game lost it’s fun after
> a month?
To be more precise, game loses its fun after 24 hours of gameplay. Which is 2..4 weeks. This happens because all modes up to extreme difficulty are too easy, and very small amount of people plays plays on extreme difficulty – you can wait up to 30 minutes for a good team (and you might run into newbie, idiot or teamkiller after all the waiting), because there is no option to play alone, and bots can’t handle extreme difficulty. That’s not to mention, that it is very hard not to notice that l4d uses engine which is based on Q2. Maps are not detailed enough – many areas still look like bunch of blocks – despite bump and textures. And valve sdk utils have internal limitation on the number of brushes, so it is very hard to create very detailed maps (say, like a city blocks where every house has interior). Weapons were pretty disbalansed – because nothing beats automatic shotgun. And another trouble is that despite director, every map remains same. 3..4 runs, and you will remember every corner of it. 15 runs – and you will begin to understand director tactics, so game will became incredibly boring. If maps were randomly generated, environment was destructable and corpses DIDN’t disappear (it is kinda strange to see clean floor and no bodies in the room where you wasted a hundred of zombies), game would be much better. And of course, it would be very nice if game finally started working in multicore rendering mode, if the tiny pause (1/10th of second) between the time you shot the zombie and the time it starts flying away was removed, if valve hammer started working with any geometry instead of old-fashioned brushes and entites… the list can be easily continued.
> tens of thousands of people online playing at a
> given time.
Number of players doesn’t make game better. Some people like repetitive stuff. Some other people don’t have high standards of games. And there are always tons of newbies which simply haven’t seen anything else. And 10000 players is not enough to prove the game is great. Make it 1000000 at least.
As for L4D2 I suspect it will have same problems as previous L4D:
1) Small number of small maps, not very detailed with Q2 “brushy” feel about them.
2) Despite all new things, same gameplay – you will be able to exactly detect event triggers, figure out director strategy, after few runs there will be no elements of surprise.
3) No ability to play alone, without bots or human team. The problem with bots is that they are too stupid – they even get stuck in the corners sometimes. The problem with people is that it is incredibly hard to find a truly good team.
4) Still no ability to control bots (see #3)
5) Old, barely updated source engine. With all standard artifacts and nearly no proper specular lighting (the one which is not environment mapping).
I will be very happy if my prediction are incorrect. But I believe the quality of the new game most likely will be unsatisfactory.
04/07/2009 at 01:59 MidNight Q says:
What i dont get is everybody on this list complaning about paying $50 or £35 on a game when many of us could easily spend that amount on one night out which could be pretty shit, whereas a game which offers many many more than one nights play for your money gets disregarded as shit theres something wrong there. granted the game was short and many of my xbox friends hated me for playing it i thought it was a great game on multiplayer in the right circumstances, this will not be a patch, this will not be a download, this will be a fully priced game, now get on with your lives and stop bitching about a game you say you wont buy
04/07/2009 at 07:23 Reutan says:
I’m not even gonna comment on all the anger, I’m excited. But what I will say, to all the people who are incredulous about incendiary rounds…they exist. But, due to the fact that they’re usually for larger guns I also point these out: Tracer rounds. Known to be a fire hazard.
04/07/2009 at 08:19 jeff... says:
i dont understand why people are just going to whine and bitch about a freakin game… if you dont want it, leave and dont slander a game. seriously, everyone is complaining about them leaving l4d when they never said they wouldnt… who knows they might add new infected guns weapons in old l4d after l4d2. why you people dont even know if the game will be full priced! besides why must people waste their time sladnering and yelling about a game? does anyone here know how challenging it is to create a game? think about it how about you try to make l4d remake and put your own bs into it so you wont have to bitch about a game, or better yet, quit thinking of the bad parts of a game and look for the better parts, or just make your own jesus christ! besides, i believe people are overeacting. way too much overeacting to this game. if you dont like it dont get it dont slander it and leave the GOD DAMN GAME ALONE! it;s valves creation and if you dont like it dont play it. all you freakin people want the “perfect game” and want to bitch about it cus l4d or l4d2 arent the perfect game you guys want. how about you quit bothering valve and allow them to do their work. oh and one last thing why was l4d2 not a dlc? well it was originally going to be but if you 60% of your hardrive used up then you do that. they had to make a new game because it would take up large majorities of space on your hardrive so stop your god damn bitching jesus christ!
04/07/2009 at 08:51 Oh Hush says:
Come on people. You guys act like your ENTITLED to post release FREE add-ons. So Valve didn’t throw in as much free content as they have in other games. Whoopty freaking doo. What about Halo 3 or CoD: WaW where they ship a new map pack every 6 months for $15 and if you don’t buy it, you lose half of your game types. And the 2 will be integrated, so the old community won’t be left behind, nor is it a minor addition. It’s slightly more than the original for content. So if buying a new one is a concern, apparently the first was enough for you, why not this one? If you disliked the first, just DON’T BUY IT. They also said they will continue with new L4D content. Valve has a VERY strong history of shipping quality games, busting price standards, and supporting many of your sorry whining asses with FREE content long after they should’ve just banned you and moved on. It’s still 5 months away, you sure as hell don’t have enough information to judge the game or Valve as of yet, and considering their history, you’ll see that they will ship another quality game. They treat you fairly, beyond even, but you keep bitching at someone working for nothing and eventually they’re not going to help you anymore.
04/07/2009 at 09:08 MD says:
I don’t know if you guys ever close comment threads, but if so, please consider putting a lid on this one! I would happily ignore it, but it keeps popping up in the ‘latest comments’ box. :-C