By Jim Rossignol on November 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pm.
Borderlands 2 is probably going to happen, if comments made in this interview are to be believed. Mike Neumann told the award-looting VG247.com that “Everyone here loves the franchise, and it seems like the public is really coming back with praise and love. So yeah, if everything makes sense, Borderlands 2 seems like a no-brainer to me.”
The downloadable content, Zombie Island of Dr. Ned, will reportedly cost $10 and is out on the 24th of November (not clear if that’s for the PC). Still no patch addressing voice and connection issues though, eh? Or did I miss that? Anyway, what do you want to see in a sequel?
11/11/2009 at 12:20 Hunam says:
That interview is with Mike Neumann, creative director at gearbox and not the big pitchford. Just so you know :P
11/11/2009 at 12:25 Hermit says:
Really hoping they up the random element for the second game. The core combat is pretty solid, though they could add in proper melee combat as well for bonus points. But if the game had randomly generated caves/dugeon sections, quest items spawned in random locations, and maybe a Director-style system to control what sort of stuff you come across (So one session you might stumble upon some bandits attacking a military outpost or something, but there’s no guarantee it’ll happen).
11/11/2009 at 12:46 Jon says:
Please, anything but randomly generated maps. They killed Hellgate: London for me, and they’d have the same effect on Borderlands.
One of the things I love about the game is the beautifully crafted world they’ve built, and that’s only possible if you have actual map designers working on things, instead of throwing a load of lego bricks into a bucket, and pulling them out at random.
I do kind of like the idea of director style random encounters, but at the same time I’m quite happy with what’s there already, with randomly spawned mobs of a suitable level.
11/11/2009 at 12:55 Hermit says:
It didn’t work for Hellgate, no. But Borderlands has an art style that’s PERFECT for it. I mean, most bandit camps use the same types of buildings. You’ll see identical rocks and Skag caves. I’m certainly not suggesting every area is random, but some of the caves (Tetanus Warrens or Skag Valley for instance) could easily be different every playthrough.
Just because Hellgate failed at it doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Torchlight is a prime example, it really doesn’t look randomly generated when you play it because everything fits together so well.
11/11/2009 at 12:56 Hermit says:
Heck, even if you weren’t randomly generating maps you could at the very least have multiple spawn locations for your weapon chests, encouraging a bit more exploration to find them.
11/11/2009 at 20:09 Nerd Rage says:
My impression of Torchlight (after watching the intro to the editor videos) is that it’s designed randomness. Random which pieces actually show up in the game, but a designer places all the possible pieces.
11/11/2009 at 20:45 MWoody says:
Hellgate: London wasn’t killed by randomly generated maps. It was killed by having, essentially, like three randomly generated maps that just repeated. That, and piss-poor game design.
11/11/2009 at 12:28 vader says:
Wasn’t 24th of November the release date for the DLC on PS3 and Xbox 360? I haven’t seen any dates for when the DLC will be released for the PC.
11/11/2009 at 12:29 FatRat says:
Yeah DLC is nice, but a patch to make the online actually work would be even better… My friends and I use GameRanger to play together, but its not perfect.
11/11/2009 at 12:34 vader says:
Wasn’t the 24th of November the releasedate for the DLC on PS3 and Xbox 360? I haven’t seen any confirmed dates for the PC.
11/11/2009 at 12:35 Hmm-Hmm. says:
Hmm. You know all the hubbub regarding L4D2 coming so son after L4D? I was experiencing a feeling akin to that ‘already?!’ feeling.
Maybe it’s because I’m used to expansions (and, these days, dlc) to prolong the product’s life and similarly that when a successor appears it is to replace the preceding one. This also feels more like episodic games like Telltales’.
TOO SOON, EXECUTUS!
11/11/2009 at 12:37 Hmm-Hmm. says:
*with ‘this’ meaning a sequel appearing so quickly on the heels of the original.
Then again, they only announced the likelihood or a sequel.
11/11/2009 at 13:16 TotalBiscuit says:
I don’t think something qualifies as episodic if
1) You get 40+ hours of gameplay out of it (the equivelant of playthrough 1 and new-game plus, chances are you’ll get even more)
2) The second game has no release date yet.
11/11/2009 at 12:41 Hulk Hogan says:
“Anyway, what do you want to see in a sequel?”
Actual PC support instead of whatever the hell we have now.
11/11/2009 at 12:48 thefanciestofpants says:
If anyone is still having issues with getting Borderlands working online (as I did) I highly recommend using Gameranger. A friend and I got it working no problem through that.
It’s a hassle using an external program to set up multiplayer games, but hey; beats not being able to play it online at all.
11/11/2009 at 12:52 Fatrat says:
I’d like to see advanced options, like microphone control and vertical sync!
OK, bad parody.
But on a serious note, i’d like to see more penalty for dying. I don’t really like how easy games make it these days. Bioshock with it’s ability to respawn down the last corridor without the level resetting, Borderlands is very similar. Sure i complained about having 60k of my cash taken once i had built up around a million in savings, but i’d rather have to redo the mission or something.
Forza 3 (yes, xbox, boo) is the same with its option to unlimitedly rewind the race every time you screw up. It’s terrible. “BACK IN MY DAY” we used to have to complete a game with 3 lives, and you hit would kill ya!
Saying that though, they’d also have to make it a little less easy to die. Once you have more than 2 players in co-op the enemies are scaled into an almost mini-boss state of HP (making your ubergun3000 feel like a slingshot) and damage output. I’d rather see MORE enemies than just see their stats increased. So that’s another thing i’d like.
11/11/2009 at 12:54 Fatrat says:
OH yeah, post above reminded me. I’d like it to sort its own port/connection issues out a bit more, like most games do. I can deal with forwarding a couple, like you sometimes have to with other games, but any more (like the 10-ish in Borderlands) is taking the mickey. That’s a valuable minute of my time!
11/11/2009 at 13:00 Hermit says:
If you rebalanced it enough you could even include harsher death penalties in harder difficulties. Maybe even a Diablo style hardcore mode where death is final. As another possibility, you could have the player loses any item in their inventory (Not equipped) when they respawn, though it would remain at the spot where you died.
11/11/2009 at 14:57 Dave says:
If there’s more penalty for dying, there needs to be less chance of dying instantly due to something stupid.
I think 3/4 of my deaths now involve vehicles and/or barrels in places where there’s nothing to shoot to get my second wind. Every once in a while there’s just this random death where I would swear I didn’t hit a barrel or anything but my car blew up.
11/11/2009 at 22:46 Trithemius says:
I strongly disagree about harsher death penalties. I think it would detract from the ambience of cheerful violence in the game and make co-op a nightmare of bitching.
Now when a team mate fails to save you, you call him (or her) a dick in a jocular fashion. It’d be a lot less jocular if there was more riding on it.
11/11/2009 at 12:59 Danforthe says:
I wanna see more vehicle stuff. Seriously, some of the best fun we’ve had comes from just driving around drib=ving each other (literally) up the wall. Even something like a driver or gunner mod and a few differnet vehicles (bikes, truck, etc) could really spice things up. And maybe the ability, like in some of the concept art, to leap onto vehicles and melee or shoot the people in them. So I guess an improved melee system might work too.
11/11/2009 at 12:59 Danforthe says:
Oh, and maybe an explaination of what all those raiders and midgets are doing in those huts without any shirts.
11/11/2009 at 13:04 Brendan says:
First and foremost I’d like the ability to send guns to and from a storage facility, like your own little house or something. They could make it so you could transfer weapons and items at the New-U station.
Secondly, more enemies on screen at once and more variety of enemies. As much as I loved the Skags, midgets and raiders, I just got sick of seeing hockey masks and 4 legged bug mammals every single time I fought something.
And lastly, better boss battles. Give your bosses some patterns at least, don’t just have them walk around doing nothing while I’m killing them; that massive vagina faced thing literally just stood in one spot while I shot at it for 5 minutes. I’d like to see more large bosses that move around, have fun patterns and aren’t just completely overpowered sponges.
11/11/2009 at 13:09 Hermit says:
Crits on bosses should serve a more important purpose, rather than just dealing bonus damage. Shooting a charging boss in the legs to make it fall over or something. Make the big fights a bit more strategic rather than just circle strafing and shooting for five minutes.
11/11/2009 at 13:04 Songbearer says:
Borderlands 2: Dual weilding, gatling/chainguns and a proper trade window. That is all.
11/11/2009 at 13:08 ChaosSmurf says:
Borderlands 2: This time with a settings option in the main menu.
11/11/2009 at 13:15 Schiraman says:
More randomnity would be nice IMO – perhaps dynamic tile-based dungeons but a fairly static overworld connecting them would work well? Though things like random bandit roadblocks or other occasional obstructions could also add some interest to maps that otherwise tend to become overly familiar.
More base types of guns and more variety of powers/buffs/debuffs on them would also be good – as you play the game more and more you start to see that they aren’t really as varied as you first think.
Also an improved interface would be handy. A combined map/quest screen that shows you all the quests waypoints at once when you mouse-over a quest, and some kind of overworld map that shows you how the zones all connect up would be great for starters. And being able to see all the stats of the guns, rather than just the first 4 lines of text – that’d be handy, right? Plus the ability to turn in-game chat on and off, etc. etc.
Yeah, and networking that works. And doesn’t delete/fail-to-save characters…
11/11/2009 at 13:17 Schiraman says:
Oh, and a stash/bank FFS. Why does it not have one already?
11/11/2009 at 13:15 Requiem says:
I think the first question should be what do we want to see in a patch let alone a sequel. Like PC support, slowing down the re-spawning of enemies before you’ve left an area, or at least more randomization of which enemies re-spawn.
That said in a sequel I’d like to see complete character customization, the ability to choose my gender, character model, skills, voice not just a choice between four characters and a colour scheme. Duel wielding, not really a fan of it in most games but those revolvers really cry out to be duel wielded. The ability to break weapons apart and create our own custom jobs, mixing and match parts. An AI buddy for single player. A melee system, first or third person. More variety in vehicle models and an more of an open world so we can drive between areas or just move from one area to another without having to press a damn button.
11/11/2009 at 13:30 gulag says:
I actually quite enjoy the respawning of grunts behind you. While it’s obvious that it’s the result of perhaps unbalanced timers, it has the benefit of spicing up the trudge back to the start of the levels, and it certainly made me less complacent when moving through ‘finished’ areas.
11/11/2009 at 13:17 Lilliput King says:
Wouldn’t mind some patches gaiz!
Lilith is fucked.
11/11/2009 at 13:25 gulag says:
Make it more like Fallout 3, but with proper shooting plz.
11/11/2009 at 13:30 TotalBiscuit says:
God no.
11/11/2009 at 13:33 gulag says:
Gods yes!
A home base, characters with plenty of incidental dialogue, companion AI, quests that amount to a touch more than collect X of Y, combat drugs. Borderlands could do with all of the above, and a few more things from FO3 besides. It has the ‘S’ for Shooter stuff worked out, but it’s behind the curve on the ‘RP’ for Role Playing stuff.
11/11/2009 at 17:17 yutt says:
@gulag
The additions you listed, while good, are not at all what I think of when thinking of Fallout 3. I just played through it for my first time two days ago, incidentally. I assumed you wanted Borderlands to have more ugly terrain, a repetitive, drudging combat system, and laughably generic enemies with poor animation. Oh, and a preachy yet trite contrived ending.
Fallout 3 was a solidly mediocre game.
11/11/2009 at 13:29 Waneta says:
I would love some sort of actual endgame challenge. Me and a few friends beat playthrough 2 the other day and it was almost trivial. Now there’s really nothing to do: no way to farm gear, and no reason to farm gear since I can easily kill anything in the game on the hardest difficulty. You can’t even fight the main boss again if you want to!
11/11/2009 at 13:53 Tei says:
1) Tanks or some ridiculous vehicles. Hard to use copters?
2) a PVP mode that where like versus.. hee… “Enviroment vesus Player”, with special infec^h^h monsterplayers like skrab, antlion^h^hantispider, etc..
3) a “Survive the PIT” that continue forever releasing waves and more waves to progressivelly more powerfull and ridicully proped monsters, till you die.
4) some diablo2-like crafting npc’s (to “enchant” weapons, etc..)
5) a ridiculous hard and superpopulated by big monsters map
11/11/2009 at 13:56 gulag says:
Hopefully Gerabox will knock out an SDK for this and all of the stuff that is so obviously possible will spring from the community. Borderlands has the potential to be as long-lived and rewarding as Stalker with the right care from the community.
11/11/2009 at 14:01 Alec Meer says:
A ‘No Claptraps’ option and auto-looting of cash.
11/11/2009 at 14:07 Songbearer says:
All characters replaced by Claptraps. Even the Skags.
Skagtraps.
11/11/2009 at 14:11 Lilliput King says:
All claptrap dialogue lines subsequently removed except for the dancing one, and the period in between each line reduced to one second.
Enemy numbers increased by 2000%.
11/11/2009 at 14:15 TotalBiscuit says:
Lilliput King, you are a monster.
11/11/2009 at 14:15 Lu-Tze says:
Really, it’s all about longevity and breadth. Borderlands is alright, but it’s a really linear experience. Co-Op with friends breaks you out of the story (such as it was) and you end up playing the game in a really weird piecewise fashion. When you team up with friends, i’d expect more of the Arena style quests, but infinitely repeatable. As the waves increase and the difficulty goes up, so do the rewards. Make the top levels be completely infeasibly impossible, and then watch as people still work out how to get past them and reap their huge rewards.
Instead, you are forced to do occasional nice long story quests, followed by half an hour of everyone driving around so you can hand things in. MMOs get this right, you get a group together to take on particular challenges over and over. Hell, given the arcadey nature of Borderlands… put in Leaderboards for this kind of thing and you’d get people playing it non-stop.
I’d much rather group with my friends to just tear shit up in the arena, seeing if we can beat our previous best of wave 24, than everyone driving around all the time so we can hand quests in.
11/11/2009 at 14:15 vatara says:
I’d sell my soul for Torchlight’s endless dungeon feature in Borderlands…where the enemies keep getting harder and the drops get better.
That and making the multiplayer work on pc.
11/11/2009 at 14:24 Dain says:
Yeah, I was sad that they’d ditched that feature (along with a few other ambitious ideas early previews mentioned). Guess redoing all the art in the game and deciding to go for the incredi-crazy style the game ended up as took up a lot of dev time.
11/11/2009 at 14:25 Dain says:
Noodles, broken reply system.. that was meant to be in reply to “And maybe the ability, like in some of the concept art, to leap onto vehicles and melee or shoot the people in them. So I guess an improved melee system might work too.”
11/11/2009 at 14:32 Morph says:
A bit better scaling in co-op later on, towards the end of our first playthrough there was barley a challenge – my solo game has been much tougher. Give the co-op players real reason to work together and use team tactics.
I guess more characters would be great, but keeping the current 4 as well. 8 player co-op! Oh and new vehicles.
Despite complaints though, I bloody love Borderlands. I wouldn’t want it made more roleplay-y (like Fallout 3). It’s pretty simple as it is and in this case simple = fun.
11/11/2009 at 14:43 CMaster says:
I’m more excited about the idea of Borderlands DLC (only just finished playthrough 1 last night) than a sequel. There were some fantastic missions in there (Krom, Old Haven) and some pretty dire ones (all the Mad Mel storyline). More intense environments like the former would be great.
That said, my purchase of any DLC is dependent on a patch or two to make the game more PC friendly. Add in an options screen, improve the interface layout slightly.
11/11/2009 at 14:46 derFeef says:
I want them to stop bitching about valve and put out a Patch for this console port already. grml.
11/11/2009 at 14:48 CMaster says:
Oh yeah, chalk that up for a sequel – Steamworks integration to replace gamespy.
11/11/2009 at 18:11 ascagnel says:
I was waiting for someone to mention Steamworks. Pitchford has spoken out against Steam, but its the closest thing to XBL/PSN on PC. The current system works awfully for pick-up co-op games: all players need to be in the game already, and if everyone’s lucky then we can all play (because of the crap GameSpy peer-to-peer code).
I’ve never had any problems with L4D’s matchmaking, even when it’s running p2p. One person can create a lobby, choose to make it public, and then can add friends in as long as those friends are running Steam.
GB hosting dedicated servers (or giving someone the option of hosting a dedicated server) would be an added bonus. Since the network topography of different players can be wildly different, sometimes just connecting to a single server is the easiest and quickest way to get it done.
Currently, I have all sorts of problems (even w/ Hamachi and/or GameRanger) connecting with friends, and I end up organizing all my games via Steam. Its just a pain in the ass with GameSpy.
11/11/2009 at 15:04 The Innocent says:
I think a sequel would be a fantastic idea. There are a lot of things I keep thinking I’d like to see, that would take Borderlands from great to amazing:
Weapons: more variety (as in, more than just three elements with a few varieties in how they interact), the ability to upgrade (how many times have you found the sweetest damn rifle in the world with no scope?), more grenade variety, and melee weapons that are every bit as outlandish as the ranged ones.
Items: a personal stash (obviously), and one-time performance-enhancing buff items.
Vehicles: more of them (and more enemies with them, though their difficulty ought to be varied, so that there are podunks in trucks as well as bandit raiders with supertanks). Also, more “themed” sections, like with the Dahl Headland’s Mad Max vibe. I picture a dogfighting area where you can still be on foot but you have to worry about a Red Baron-type bandit; or an archipelago area where you travel between small islands by very fast boats that are armed suspiciously well.
Environment: The only real disappointment here for me was that I could shoot little things like bottles and they would just sit there without shattering. Basic destructibility, including perhaps the spawn-huts of the bandits, would be greatly appreciated. Also, the towns are a bit desolate, and I wouldn’t mind seeing more non-enemy characters. Random instances in the world, i.e. bandits attacking mercenaries, would also be appreciated (and if not random, then just something a bit different from the repetitive identical bandit camp encounters).
Enemies: more of them, both in quantity on the field at once and quantity as in types. Random enemies would help this. I find the skags and spiderants and all those are more annoying because they take so long to spawn. When playing with friends we usually mop them up only to have another five pop out of the ground/cave/whatever. It gets a bit tedious. Just let us fight a horde of them and be done with it!
11/11/2009 at 15:07 Dave says:
More types of guns, and a reasonable balance between them. More Eridian/exotic weapons perhaps. Whacked-out locally made weapons made of junk, since garbage seems to be Pandora’s chief natural resource. Melee weapons. Maybe the ability to salvage that sweet Crimson Lance armor.
Definitely more support for tweaking/options on the PC side. I haven’t tried to play online so I can’t comment on that.
Improvements to the map system — such as being able to scroll the thing, and see what area the transitions lead to (at least if you’ve been to them once); perhaps an area connectivity map like Hellgate had.
11/11/2009 at 15:10 Wounder says:
I’d take canning GameSpy, some ability to trade/email items to friends, an improved manner to compare weapons against various targets (a range with dummies, perhaps?), a smattering of randomly generated zones, more varieties of critters and then basically just more. More of everything they’ve done. It’s outstanding.
L4D2 demo has seen two hours of play so far, losing out to Borderlands. Ditto Dragon Age. I would never, ever have called that one. And it’s the same for the majority of the folks I play online with.
11/11/2009 at 15:56 Dave says:
For that matter, trading items to your own alts via a storage locker would be nice. My Mordecai would quit throwing away every good SMG he sees and my Lilith would stop crying about it.
11/11/2009 at 15:27 Hermit says:
Actually, you could introduce some sort of crafting element too. All the Scavenge quests in Borderlands show guns made of the same four components: Stock or Cylinder, Barrel, Sight, and Body. Some means of breaking guns down to recieve one of those four components could provide materials, maybe also add the ability to attach unneeded Elemental Artefacts to add elemental damage.
At the very least, some guns could have slots for mods (think socketed items). Scopes to increase range, laser sights to increase accuracy, magazine expansions, and so on. Bit like Deus Ex’s old mod system, only this time guns have a limited number of upgrade slots. This way, if I find a sniper rifle that’s a bit better than my current one, but lacking in elemental damage, I could try improving it myself.
Either one could work as a way to make loot interesting even in the late game. On my second playthrough I’m finding even some yellow artefact weapons that aren’t better than the ones I already have – some use for those beyond simply topping up my massive bank balance would be nice.
11/11/2009 at 17:19 Wounder says:
I’m going to agree with this. I actually thought you could upgrade your weapon components rather than trade them out wholesale. I actually got attached to weapons to the point I’d refuse to trade them out for better ones. My excuse was that I couldn’t be *positive* the other weapon was better. I mean, sure, the damage was higher, but that’s practically meaningless!
Oh, and show more than $10M. I’m losing $4.2M a death these days, but it doesn’t really hurt, since it’s “only” out of my more-than-$10M coin jar.
11/11/2009 at 16:10 Theoban says:
The two things I want:
1) A train that I can drive that has gun placements on the back. As soon as I started playing it I really wanted a train that I could drive in co-op, for example me driving and others manning the turrets. YES.
2) A DAMN ENDING please. The Borderlands ending is more like someone switching off the lights on the way out, rather than involving any closure at all. It’s an ellipsis not a finale. I know the story isn’t the point of the game, but after 20+ hours of shooting and the final vaginabeast it’d be nice to have something other than a 3 second video and some loot that was much worse than what I was using. Each character has a reason to be on Pandora, from finding Brick’s sister to resolving Malachi’s past, but none of that is touched upon apart from the character bio’s. Nonsense.
11/11/2009 at 16:31 Lasse Andersen says:
As logn as there’s no f*cking Gamespy in Borderlands 2, I’ll manage.
11/11/2009 at 20:45 Lagmint says:
I’m still totally shocked about the gamespy stuff. When I launched the game I was ready to KILL every reviewer who just failed to mention that the worlds oldest and worst still existing multiplayer system (yes, worse than Games For Windows Live!) was actually used for a game. Good God is it terrible.
Game. Fucking. Spy.
Wow.
11/11/2009 at 16:55 Heker says:
I’m with Biscuit on this one i think the game content is too high to be classed like that. Also if the new game was exactly that (a new story and scenery) I’d happily buy it next week, providing they patch out the kinks from the first.
11/11/2009 at 17:03 Heker says:
Reply fail
11/11/2009 at 17:20 Hug_dealer says:
i just want the SDK.
IF we get an SDK, all our wishes will be granted.
11/11/2009 at 17:28 Tei says:
I would add a “machine civilization” that is tryiing to ignore you, but that have high trafe routers, where you can enter with one of the buggys, and try to derail one of the super-mamonth-trucks. Is that doable with this engine?
Also could be fun a minimode where you steal eggs from a big monster, then you have to run, with the monster tryiing to kill you.
In the RPG sense, it may be fun to have a “upgradeable outpost”, with turrets and stuff, maybe even a nuclear canon.
11/11/2009 at 17:44 Count Elmdor says:
I’d like a PC version, please. Borderlands 1 is a slipshod console port.
11/11/2009 at 18:29 StormTec says:
Here, here. I’d rather not have to use keys to scroll through text at the very least.
11/11/2009 at 18:45 Casimir's Blake says:
It’s odd. People here are crying foul over it being a console port.
There are many issues with the interface, it requires more mouse use than I’d require. And it suffers from that fucking irritating mouse lag if your graphics card isn’t uber-powerful.
But apart from not running full-screen for me… it hasn’t crashed once. I’ve been running it windowed on a dual screen setup, rendering in Daz3d in the background and watching a video on my second monitor (I know, I bore easily). Hasn’t flinched. Gearbox can code!
11/11/2009 at 19:19 Nick says:
“irritating mouse lag”
That is likely to be the mouse smoothing in action, you can turn that off in an ini file thankfully, as it is pretty awful.
11/11/2009 at 18:34 Peter says:
I’d say a proper PC game instead of a less than mediocre port and a better AI are top priority. Now, I know those guys hate Fallout 3 and dialogue trees but a little bit of story could go a long way. As far as I’m concerned the game has no story at all, it’s impossible to care about it and I haven’t read one mission text for a long time now, i’m in “just-follow-the-green-diamond” mode almost since the beggining.
Learn from other RPG’s and make the comparison of items work better.
The AI is pretty bad, too. I’ve killed many bigger enemies quite easily just because they would get stuck somewhere and could’t hurt me. Happened all the time. If it weren’t for all that, I’d say it’s a great game. The way it is now (especially with no patching) it’s just ok.
11/11/2009 at 18:45 Nootrishus says:
As many above have said, this game is sadly a shoddy console port. Don’t get me wrong, I love this game and if you saw my steam profile you’d spot the 80 odd hours I’ve put into it already.
The game is not without it’s flaws, big flaws too; The menu system is dire, and shouldn’t have taken that much more work to get them up to scratch on PC. Which leads onto the missing settings for AA and vertical sync.
The network code was rushed beyond belief or they just didn’t bother, begged someone to step in and let them bodge it all, which is where Gamespy stepped in. I mean seriously, I forgot I HAD a Gamespy account! I’m truly surprised at the lack of coverage this has had in the media, especially in light of what happened with Demigod. I preempted this by forwarding my ports before the game was released (another fuck you to the PC gamers, god only knows what the game was like before the so called optimization), and always hosted a public game and quit out before hosting a private game. I had no issues until this weekend and haven’t been able to host a game since with my 3 other friends (purchased the 4 pack off Steam). Honestly, you need only go check the forums for the issues people have, for which there has been little feedback from the developer’s (sad panda time).
Tech issues out of the way, the gameplay was patchy in it’s own areas; The game just felt too easy most of the time. Boss battles suffering the most from this, as there seemed to be too many ways to glitch the bosses. You can literally walk out of the Sledge fight, recharge your shields, and open the door to pop some shots at him, before running back out. The bosses also seemed to fart about a bit too much and hardly ever posed a threat, which goes for most of the mobs too. I found that playing with Lillith, unless an enemy had a rocket launcher, it was like I was a sledge hammer toying with chestnuts. Once I had grabbed some decent weapons, I could kill anything without much effort. Now maybe the game is just that easy with Lillith, as being able to warp out of a fight, recover most of your health and get a better position is just godly, couple that with her daze effect, and well most fights are just boring.
The weapon’s shouldn’t have as big a swing on difficulty as I feel they have. Good gear makes a big difference in other RPGs, but in other RPGs you tend to need to collect a lot more than a gun, shield and class mod to become a monster. Also bosses still tend to kill you and pose some kind of challenge, getting harder as the game progresses. On my second play-through, 9 Toes was a pain as was Sledge. Skagzilla was a oh-no-I’m-going-to-spend-five-minutes-buying-ammo (buy all option please?!), and hit me maybe 6 times. And the last boss, well he didn’t even get past my shields… (sad panda). Without trying to sound too console bashy, maybe they just didn’t up the difficulty for us PC twitch freaks.
All that aside, I still love the game and really hope they fix and balance it, and really learn from the experience for Borderlands 2.
11/11/2009 at 18:52 torchedEARTH says:
Missions where you fight your way to the end and the object shown on the map is actually there where you can pick it up.
Ahh fuck it, I’ll just get Rage next year instead.
11/11/2009 at 19:22 Hug_dealer says:
There really is no way to balance a game based on random loot. The people who find the uber loot will find things to easy, while guys with the crap loot will find it to hard.
The way to fix this is by adding more playthroughs, every play through after the 2nd, adds a level to all the enemies for each playthrough.
so while things are 48-51 after the end of playthrough 2. playthrough 3 will lvl everything up 1 more level, if you manage to beat it again, they up it another level. Hopefull during this time you are finding more loot to increase your level.
Eventually you will get to a point where all the mobs put a hurt on you and then you need to start farming for even better gear than you have before you can progress to the next playthrough.
11/11/2009 at 19:32 Nef says:
Better leveling. That’s all I want.
Borderlands really screwed up progression in my mind. The only way for a player to properly stay challenged and not over-leveled is to ignore just about all side quests and only run main quests. On my first playthrough by the time we had gotten into Old Haven we were around level 33 and Crimson Lance were a joke. I did my second playthrough forgoing all secondary quests waiting for the level increase upon completion of playthrough two. I had some challenge, but it still wasn’t that great.
I think the designers made damage scale up (or down) way too quickly relative to how many levels above/below the enemy is from you. You only really have a one or two level window to get a good challenge out of any given mob/boss, and it’s nigh impossible to do more than 75% of the quests while in an ideal level for them.
11/11/2009 at 19:56 Mechtroid says:
You can scroll the map. Just click n’ drag.
11/11/2009 at 20:04 Mechtroid says:
Reply fail..
11/11/2009 at 20:06 KP says:
I want to see a game that isn’t about powerleveling and grind addiction. also one that isn’t boring after (and at points, during) the first playthrough. less console-port-itis.
11/11/2009 at 20:37 Lagmint says:
Does it allow you to play with two people on the same router? The biggest problem I have now is that neither my girlfriend nor I can host other people if we’re playing as well. We have to both join someone elses game.
11/11/2009 at 20:38 Lagmint says:
/sigh, that was a reply to the Gameranger post above.
12/11/2009 at 07:38 vagabond says:
We’ve been playing using the standard networking without any third party app for our co-op game, and the guy that is hosting the game and his housemate are sharing an internet connection, so what you want to do is theoretically possible out of the box.
Are you able to host a game if only one of you is involved?
11/11/2009 at 20:53 Nootrishus says:
I’ll second this. It feels like you have to make a choice when you play this game, either forgo the side-quests for a greater challenge and miss out on content, or obliterate everything you come across for the sake of experiencing the game as a whole. That is just poor design really.
While it’s nice to have an incentive for multiple play throughs, I gave up on side quests entirely after level 28 in search of challenge while playing Lil, who was my single player character.
There was much more of a challenge playing the game on multiplayer, sometimes trying to solo just one mob could land you in trouble.
It would be interesting to know how they tested the game pre-release.
11/11/2009 at 20:56 Nootrishus says:
@Nef
I’ll second this. It feels like you have to make a choice when you play this game, either forgo the side-quests for a greater challenge and miss out on content, or obliterate everything you come across for the sake of experiencing the game as a whole. That is just poor design really.
While it’s nice to have an incentive for multiple play throughs, I gave up on side quests entirely after level 28 in search of challenge while playing Lil, who was my single player character.
There was much more of a challenge playing the game on multiplayer, sometimes trying to solo just one mob could land you in trouble.
It would be interesting to know how they tested the game pre-release.
11/11/2009 at 21:46 We Fly Spitfires says:
Zombie Island? Sweet! Sounds awesome :)
11/11/2009 at 22:43 Trithemius says:
Co-op tools please (as a D&D players I miss being able to talk about builds and share loot around easily!)
My thunks:
* an option to turn on profit-sharing from selling loot to vending machines
* a “team screen” so you can check (and bitch about) people’s builds and check the collective bonuses
* a screen that shows YOUR bonuses (tracking the effects of skill bonuses from class mods, etc); this is probably just the previously mentioned screen with only your character on it…
* comparison of loot before you pick it up
* the ability to set characters as co-op, and to set teams, so you avoid random quest spamming of doom when you join a game with an overachiever!
* a “team shack” (associated with a particular co-op playthrough) so you can have a loot-sharing screen rather than just standing about dropping piles and piles of shiny crap.
* MAYBE SOME TEENSY AMOUNT OF STORAGE? (possibly for co-op only, possibly in the team shack)
* ammo-dropping
* hot-key for using health kits
12/11/2009 at 08:55 etho says:
there is pre-pickup comparison. When you look at loot you can use, on the right side of the screen it shows the stats for your currently equipped item. It took me a while to notice it, but once I did, it was hugely helpful.
11/11/2009 at 22:47 Trithemius says:
Oh yeah, and ENDING THAT IS WORTH A DAMN might be good too.
FFS. What a downer. :\
11/11/2009 at 22:50 Morph says:
Calling it a ‘shody port’ is taking things way too far. Did having to press Enter at the start menu really put you off the game? Really?
What exactly screams ‘console port’? I don’t get it. Everyone I know has prefered the PC version to the X-box.
12/11/2009 at 09:58 Tei says:
“What exactly screams ‘console port’?”
- lack press to talk,
- enter on the intro
- options on the options menu for finne tunning of things like default fov, enable/disable some graphic options
- a chat that is integrated on the game. currently if you press t,a tiny console shows. this is pure lazyness, since the console “almost” but not work like a proper chat line. I don’t know other people, but I have to remove a “say” command that is there.
- the hud is somewhat too big
- inhability to save wen you need it.
- defaults for fov
- the whole UI system use console language. On the PC you don’t see [Enter] Ok on a Windows window, because is idiotic, … maybe you se Ok, with the “O” underlined, that is. theres too much bloat on the interface, I suppose on the console version theres a icon for a button. So it make sense on the console, but is idiotic on the PC. All of it takes too much screen space, and get clutter to “[enter]something[e]refresh[esc]escapa” …. hell.. I like some ascii games like Dwarf Fortress, but even DF have better menus than Borderlands. The UI is wrong in no-console ways, …like the text is soo big, that some weapons can’t show all the props of such weapon. This may make sense on a analog TV, that is poor to show small text, but on a monitor don’t make sense. Somewhat smaller text is still totally readable.
- the keys that the UI use. Is like the guys that have choose these keys have never played a PC game, or PC computer before. There are some keys, yes, that we PC gamers use, but NOT for what this dude habe used it on the game.
- theres not visual indication on the screen of what weapons you have equiped, and a limit of 4. I suppose because a XBox 360 control pad only has 4 direction buttons, and use these direction to choose the weapon. But a PC has 9 number keys, so limiting it to 4 is like ankward. The whole game is made to be compatible with a XBox 360 control pad. But on a PC the control pad is a poorly input method, laughdable, ridiculous and lame.
- absolutelly lame game browser. If you want to play a game of your level (say 31), you are screwed. If you are something rare, llike level 40, you are screwed. Almost all the “servers” that list are unusble, because the owner don’t have the ports open. Is how the console guys like his things, simplicity over usability or even workability.
- local saving of profiles. This is actually a thing that may kill replayability on the future. Since the PC version is a “aftertrougth” this has ben used, but will result on a uncontrolable proliferation of “hacked” weapons. This instantly kills any competitive play, but ultimatelly may kill PUGing, and replayability. It sould (at least) tried to protect it enough cyphering it, or stuff.
I don’t think anything of this is really important (other than the lame game browser), since the game is fun, and maybe a 40% is thanks of consoley artifacts. That ha game has some consoley genes is not bad. Risen is playable *because* the console port. Morrowind was *also* a good console game. But Is true that the PC version looks like made by a sweapshop in China, by the low seller cheap labor you can get in china. Withouth something fishy like that, I can’t explain how the game got released with a chat that is a hack using the console, as example. I can understand the FOV, because don’t care about it, but things like the chat of the network browser only have a explanation: not enough testing, bad testing and poor programming.
11/11/2009 at 22:59 Lagmint says:
‘Calling it a ’shody port’ is taking things way too far. Did having to press Enter at the start menu really put you off the game? Really?
What exactly screams ‘console port’? I don’t get it. Everyone I know has prefered the PC version to the X-box.”
Press ‘enter’ to close screen. Scroll through quest text with… page up and page down! use GAMESPY to play multiplayer! (well ok that’s just retarded in general, not specifically console). FOV is… 65! Auto-aim! Super-jumps so you can avoid combat!
Those were a few I thought of.
12/11/2009 at 04:02 Gutter says:
What a lame list… No one ever pretended that Borderlands was the next Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2 does the job just right. The game’s roots are in silly little RPGs…
You want a FPS/RPG where the FPS part is perfect? Make a mod, or pester the makers of those perfect FPS, don’t try to transform Borderlands into a hardcore FPS.
12/11/2009 at 04:05 Psychopomp says:
Where the hell did he complain about the FPS part being bad? Did you even fucking read before commenting?
11/11/2009 at 23:03 OutOfExile says:
It’s confirmed that it’s going to be on PC, PC price however isn’t
11/11/2009 at 23:24 Lilliput King says:
@Morph
I guess it’s mostly about the interface, and the concessions made to it.
For me, the most annoying thing is the network connectivity just being awful. I can handle opening ports, having used dedicated servers to play TF2 with friends, this is an annoyance but not a problem. What’s unforgiveable is that even with ports safely opened, only a portion of my friends can ever join my games, leading to mystical solutions. I have to start a public server, then invite the computers not on my LAN server, but THEY MUST NOT ACCEPT, then close that server. If any randomers have joined in that period, the next step won’t work, so I have to restart the game. Assuming everything goes as planned, I start up a new private server, then invite ONLY the computer on my LAN server, which may or may not work. If it doesn’t, Borderlands has to be restarted for us both. Assuming my friend of the LAN server gets in, I can then invite my friends over the interweb, and we can play. It’s an unbelievable headache, and way beyond what I should be expected to do.
The second most annoying this is that even now only four lines of weapon dialog are shown on the little weapon cards in the default version of the game. By editing the font size, you can get it to 5, but never more, despite the fact weapons can verifiably have more than 5 bonuses. That kind of thing /really/ bugs me in a diablo-like.
The third most annoying thing is the game seems deliberately vague as to how it describes the upgrades you buy with levels up, using phrases like “for a period of time.” Some of them are downright misleading, like Deploy. Also super-annoying in a diablo-like.
The fourth most annoying thing is that one of the three of the upgrade paths for Lilith just doesn’t work.
The fifth most annoying thing is the lack of decent options menus. Stuff like the abiltiy to turn on Vsync, and the ability to turn off mouse smoothing, mic controls, this is important.
The sixth most annoying thing is the tiny FOV. It’s changeable using ini files, but it keeps resetting when in a vehicle or when sprinting, which is as migraine inducing as the default FOV itself.
The seventh most annoying thing is that class mods and other stat boosts aren’t in any way displayed on your characters stats. To that end, a unified stats screen, detailing exactly what is going on with your character rather than all the vague gumpf would be enormously useful.
The eighth most annoying thing is that there is no way to trade, at all, or share ammo.
The ninth most annoying thing is that cash isn’t just automatically picked up – as it’s shared, there’s really no reason for that to be the case.
Also, those things Trithemius said that I haven’t already stolen.
I liked it though. Just, yeah.
12/11/2009 at 05:42 JKjoker says:
about the vague descriptions and lack of stats for skills and weapons, those really really bug me to hell, but they are starting to become more and more common (Dragon Age has an even worse example, they tell you stats that are useless because they dont tell you other stats, they tell you weapon dmg but not the hit rate or dmg per second so you cant compare, they dont tell you how much dmg spells do or how they grow or what stats they are tied to)
they are probably doing it because console tards get confused with the stats, just like with the Tactics options in DAO, why limiting them so much ? wizards and special characters like Shale or shapeshifters need like 15+ slots to properly set up the AI to use every ability, heal themselves and react to eventualities, you only get 4~6 and at most 4 more if you spend 4 very rare skill points, i can imagine the console beta testers rolling on the ground mumbling “ooh the choices, i cant take these many choices”)
12/11/2009 at 06:01 Psychopomp says:
Or maybe they just frown upon min-maxing?
12/11/2009 at 00:00 JKjoker says:
I want to see 3 things :
*actual character development and customization in the sequel, and by that i mean about the way they play not the physical look (too many rpgs lately have been confusing rpg character creation with dress-up-doll creation)
how about letting the player choose a “skill tree” at level 5, 10 and 15 (or just pick out 3 out during character creation) ? you could let the players take any 3 trees or sort the trees into 3 categories (like “special skill”, “passive” and “weapon specialization”) and have them choose 1 in each
instead of locking us into predesigned characters, if they are afraid of console tards getting confused just put the 4 original precreated guys and a “custom character” option like fallout did so long ago
*another thing i want to see (and not just in Borderlands 2, in every RPG made from now on) a quick start option for replaying the game that jumps the whole “tutorial” section of the game, i dont want to spend an hour grinding until you get the car and the world opens up (DAO has a baaad case of this)
*and let me shoot Claptrap, i hate the little crap
12/11/2009 at 06:02 Psychopomp says:
Jesus christ, what is you’re fucking problem with console gamers?
You’re what’s wrong with PC gaming. The elitism.
12/11/2009 at 06:07 Vinraith says:
He’s got a good underlying point, though. I don’t think that console gamers are idiots, but it certainly seems like game designers think exactly that. The tendency really is to simplify options, remove decisions, and generally “dumb down” games that are ported to, or co-developed for, console. I think it under-serves them even more than it screws us, really.
12/11/2009 at 08:35 Morph says:
But what’s this weird obsession with wanting to make things complicated?
Borderlands is a fun, fast paced FPS. If you level up in the middle of a big fight you can duck behind a wall, quickly spend your skill points, and get back into the shooting. I don’t want to spend valuable FPS time wondering whether to raise my dexterity or constiution or a dozen other stats.
The way of improving your shooting (use a gun = get better at using that gun) works similarly. No pondering about where to spend skill points on various weapons. If you think Lilith would be great with a shotgun, get Lilith a shotgun.
Simple is fun.
12/11/2009 at 09:53 Mman says:
Have we seriously reached the point of people ranting about “console tards” despite showing obvious ignorance of one of the PC’s flagship franchises (that pretty much all of Borderlands skill system is drawn from)?
12/11/2009 at 14:49 JKjoker says:
@Morph: whats with this obsession of simplifying gameplay until its not there anymore ?
we keep going for games that play themselves or have “one hand” gameplay like Bayonetta
why cant i hate that ? am i playing games wrong ? simple is not fun for everyone
12/11/2009 at 17:51 Mman says:
Bayonetta is hardly an example of simplifying games just because it has an optional mode for the lowest difficulty settings, considering the game is about as hardcore as it gets on the higher settings.
12/11/2009 at 01:20 Ryan says:
How about maybe a demo? I remember when games had those.
12/11/2009 at 07:41 Vinraith says:
Paid DLC before patching out significant issues, eh? Sounds like I was right to wait. Here’s hoping they do clear up the problems, though, as this one still looks like an awfully good time.
12/11/2009 at 07:49 Lilliput King says:
“Or maybe they just frown upon min-maxing?”
It goes a bit further than that, though. Especially in Dragon Age, where it literally tells you almost nothing about the spells/abilities.
e.g., You’re told that heal will heal a portion of health. My issue with this is that if it’s, say, 20 health at spellpower 20, then I’m not really interested, and I don’t want it. If it’s 40 health at spellpower 20, then I’d want it. What good does hiding this info do?
12/11/2009 at 08:07 TCM says:
Considering it’s the only healing spell in the game, does it matter?
Dragon Age, unlike certain older DnD based games, does not require extensive research on its abilities to utilize them effectively. Each and every ability and spell is unique, and there’s more than enough levels to get a substantial amount of useful abilities. In fact, I have yet to encounter a useless ability or spell.
12/11/2009 at 10:22 Tei says:
“In fact, I have yet to encounter a useless ability or spell.”
On the healing tree, that one that suposedly raise the regeneration of health. I have found not use of it. If you guy have 20HP and this healing thing is active, and suffer a -30HP, is dead dead. So you want to heal him to 100HP, not put on him a slow healing thing.
12/11/2009 at 16:38 Psychopomp says:
You throw regeneration up *before* they’re low on health, silly. The regeneration is pretty damn strong, and will conserve a lot of mana, or let you concentrate on healing up someone else for a second.
12/11/2009 at 10:21 Lilliput King says:
Just an example, TCM. It’s more pronounced with the damage dealing spells. That said, I’m a big fan of how the magic works, as it’s surprisingly situational, depending on the positions of your party members, enemies you’re fighting, etc. It also does a good job of making abilities work together. My latest favourite combo is getting Morrigan to freeze someone, and smashing them with the guaranteed critical hit you get from the shield-beat attack (think it’s called overpower) with Alistair.
Just this one minor thing that bugs me, is all. I want to know as much as possible about the abilities I have.
12/11/2009 at 10:27 Lilliput King says:
@Tei
It does heal slightly more than the instant heal, though you aren’t told this. IIRC you aren’t even told how long it goes on for, but I’ve found it useful to use either early in a fight or while heal is regenerating. If you have a dedicated tank and a dedicated healer, it works quite well for keeping their health high, mostly.
12/11/2009 at 10:49 Soylent Robot says:
A L4D2-style boycott
12/11/2009 at 15:15 Operatives says:
The game does feel like it was polished specifically for consoles, and the PC-version was an afterthought.
I strongly disagree with Gearbox’s decision to release DLC before issuing patches to fix their game. But I can’t blame them for doing so. Seems to me that the majority of their audience are those that bought the game for PS3 and XBox360; therefore, they want to appease the many at the cost of the few (and make a quick buck to boot).
It appears to me that the issues they are having with the PC could have been solved before it’s release if it were properly tested, or had a closed-beta.
And using GameSpy to manage their online game activities was sooooo DeusEx.
As for me, I plan to boycott their DLC until they fix the PC version to the point where I am able to play multiplayer co-op without the means of unsupported 3rd party work-arounds. -_-
**But hey, at least the launch wasn’t like Hellgate: London, eh?
12/11/2009 at 15:21 sana says:
Borderlands DLC is actually genuinely interesting and a sequel makes a LOT more sense since it is a story-based game that doesn’t advertise YEARS OF REPLAY VALUE, so I see no reason for it to be boycotted like the abomination that is Left 4 Dead 2.
12/11/2009 at 15:46 Hug_dealer says:
hey, i just wanted to join in and complain about console idiots because im personally not willing to figure things out on my own.
Really, get over yourselves. If it doesnt tell you how long it lasts, find out. If you need everything spelled out for you, then you are worse than the console gamers you hate so much.
12/11/2009 at 16:42 Hug_dealer says:
bah, you went and ruined it pomp. he was going to spend the rest of his time not understanding what a hot is.
12/11/2009 at 18:25 Lilliput King says:
“If it doesnt tell you how long it lasts, find out. If you need everything spelled out for you, then you are worse than the console gamers you hate so much.”
…Why not just tell me?
And I didn’t even mention consoles.
12/11/2009 at 19:18 Hug_dealer says:
i wasnt just replying to you.
14/11/2009 at 18:30 Juror #9 says:
Well, for the casual PC gamer that i am, and for the little time that i have had on Borderlands (Im only a lvl 15 Siren). Im not a consol gamer but i can see why peeps are a bit miffed. The when in the vending machines the whole [ok] [cancel] [enter] yes [esc] no deal is redundant for PC’ers. Key binding ability would be handy in the next installment. Art? awesome, cell style is great. Single player experience? Pretty sweet. Online play? Gamespy. Dumb move. Then again all i have been doing is SteamClouding so i have been spoiled. They really need a better UI for the PC and searching for severs is just way to dumbed down (that’s not a bad thing) but when the PC user has had much more data to work with when choosing a server to hook up with kind of hard to come to grips with the “online” UI.
Game physics…Unreal Engine. not my choice but just tone down the jumping. The floating feeling is a bit wierd (kind of like the grav. has been doctored to deal with the space environments UT had) but not much of an issue. Bullets actually hit what you’re aiming at (compared to the Source engine, hit box issues).
Hmm… i guess what im trying to say ascasual gamer. UI for the PC port is a bit clunky for my taste but overall this is helarious, cell animation style, RPG shooter. Good voice overs for the most part. Im really enjoying it. Then im just a casual gamer.
Sorry one last thing…why does your transportation dissappear from where you left it after you teleport to a different area? That’s a bit annoying. I expect to have a vehicle where i left it. Is that an RPG thing (like over time your car detiriorates when your killing baddies somewhere you couldn’t take your ride?) Well, let hope for a bit more PC adendums for the next installment. But i like this.
14/11/2009 at 18:33 Juror #9 says:
hmm. I said “casual” too much.. sorry about that.
10/12/2009 at 08:15 TRS-80 says:
So the DLC is finally available for PC … and it inclues SecuROM even on Steam. And 2K have continued their fuck you to Australians, charging $US13 vs the $US10 Americans get.