By Alec Meer on August 5th, 2011 at 3:57 pm.
Alleges Minecraft-maker Notch on Twitter: “Just got a letter from Bethesda’s lawyers. They claim “Scrolls” infringes on their trademark and everyone will confuse it with Skyrim.”
No way/what/how/why/whatwhatwhat? What? Hopefully this is just crossed wires, an overzealous lawyer acting alone, a weird joke or othewise not actually happening. We’ve asked Bethesda for a statement. Let’s wait for more information before we decide we know what’s going on: if it is as it appears, good grief. If it isn’t, phew. More as we have it, anyway.
Update more on the matter from Notch, plus a photograph of the legal notice (in Swedish, but I’ll take Notch’s word for it that it’s what he says it is). Seems to be real, then. Sadface. WORLD, YOU ARE SO VERY CRUEL.
05/08/2011 at 15:59 Paperfeed says:
That’s pretty pathetic… Hope they back off or that it’s actually a joke.
Edit: I mean really, this is the kind of crap that’s wrong with the world. You’ve got all this patent trolling, certain companies getting years of monopoly on really simple software solutions such as “slide your finger across the screen to unlock”, the big hats suing everything that ever so slightly resembles anything (Scrolls in this case) and just companies that exist solely off of creating patents/trademarks/what have you and waiting till somebody infringes. Don’t even get me started on how incredibly ridiculous software patents are from the get go.
05/08/2011 at 16:10 PunisherPlummer says:
i agree, that is exactly what is wrong with the technology industry. goddamn ambiguous patent. Can you imagine trying to start a phone company yourself? Impossible.
05/08/2011 at 16:11 bglamb says:
They should differentiate by calling the newer Scrolls ‘The Newer Scrolls’ and the older Scrolls ‘The Older Scrolls’, or something.
05/08/2011 at 17:07 briktal says:
Internet opinion on these things depends almost entirely on the internet opinion of the two companies. I think “good indie company” wins every matchup, with Valve probably winning everything except vs good indie company.
06/08/2011 at 10:13 WHS says:
Oops, posted this at the end of the wrong thread.
05/08/2011 at 16:00 Edawan says:
The new Edge ?
05/08/2011 at 16:06 Anton says:
Dear Notch,
Please change your game’s name from “Scrolls” to “Edge”.
Best Regards,
Bethesda
05/08/2011 at 16:07 ReV_VAdAUL says:
The Scroll Edge: Origins: A Starcraft MMO
05/08/2011 at 18:36 Zogtee says:
The OTHER Scrolls (TM)
or
These Are Not The Scrolls You Are Looking For (TM)
05/08/2011 at 18:57 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
No, not the new Edge.
Firstly, Zenimax holds a US trademark on “The Elder Scrolls” for “computer game programs” (serial no. 74568763*), and 6 other trademarks on the name in other areas. They hold a UK trademark for “computer game programs” on “The Elder Scrolls” (no. E2840098). And, unlike the Langdell case, there is no reason to suspect that these were dishonestly registered. (They probably also hold trademarks on the name in Sweden, but I don’t know where to look to find out).
Secondly, Zenimax is very clearly and obviously using their trademark for the Elder Scrolls series of games, and have been doing so continuously since The Elder Scrolls: Arena was published in 1994. So again, unlike the Langdell case, this trademark is quite definitely in continuous, active use.
So please, stop with the useless and uninformed comparisons with the Edge affair. Argue about this issue based on actual facts and reasonable opinions, not based on how much you like or dislike Mojang or Bethesda, or on vapid comparisons to other events involving trademark disputes.
There. My inner AIM is satisfied.
*You can find it on http://www.uspto.gov/ which unfortunately is so badly designed that you cannot link to a specific page for a trademark.
05/08/2011 at 21:35 undu says:
But they haven’t trademarked “Scrolls” which is why it looks stupid.
05/08/2011 at 22:46 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
No, they haven’t trademarked “Scrolls”, or it’d be an obvious case of trademark infringement. But since both are fantasy-themed computer games, Bethesda has a reasonable basis to argue that it’s likely to cause consumer confusion. And that is the key issue in this kind of trademark dispute.
05/08/2011 at 22:47 Jason Moyer says:
If Scrolls were something that a consumer could mistake for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim then I think they’d have a case. As it is, it sounds like Bethesda hired a new lawyer or something and he’s bored.
05/08/2011 at 22:58 TillEulenspiegel says:
That’s a very loose definition of “reasonable”.
1. They don’t have a trademark on Scrolls – this is important, because it’s not like Windows.
2. Scrolls is a normal English word.
Put those two key facts together, and any possible case evaporates. No competent judge is going to give Bethesda anything, unless there were evidence of a deliberate attempt to confuse.
It sounds like Markus will probably do everything right: tell his lawyer to send a “go fuck yourselves” letter to their lawyers, send Todd Howard a friendly “WTF dude???” message, and leave it there.
05/08/2011 at 23:17 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
Bear in mind that Mojang (that is, Notch & co) themselves applied for a trademark on “Scrolls”. Zenimax’s actions appear to be in response to this. I don’t know whether Mojang’s application has yet been granted, nor the applicable Swedish law—but in the US part of the trademark application process involves publishing the details of the application to allow for other trademark holders to oppose the application. I suppose that Zenimax’s objections here are related to a similar opposition procedure under Swedish law.
Dumbed down summary: Mojang is claiming ownership* over the computer game name “Scrolls”. Zenimax is objecting to this, because then that would mean that Mojang has a possible claim on Zenimax’s own ownership* of the computer game name “The Elder Scrolls”.
*not actually, because trademarks do not grant ownership.
05/08/2011 at 23:55 ArcaneSaint says:
Ah yes, so you’re saying that this is a pre-emptive measure from Bethesda to avoid being sued by Mojang for using the word “Scrolls” when Bethesda releases a new “the Elder Scrolls”-game, IF that’s the case I find it completely understandable.*
*I’m actually being sincere, not sarcastic.
06/08/2011 at 05:30 Berzee says:
That news about Mojang applying for trademark I find more interesting than the rest of this comments thread combined (except the “have you got the scrolls” joke of course). Thanks :D
06/08/2011 at 10:14 WHS says:
“Scrolls” as the name of a computer game about magic scrolls is pretty obviously a descriptive term and not exactly an ideal trademark (for Mojang) or grounds for a trademark dispute (by Bethesda). This is silly. Also, someone at Bethesda should recognize that attacking Indie Hero Notch does them far more harm than any consumer confusion ever would, and rein in their lawyers.
07/08/2011 at 23:01 ArcaneSaint says:
That might be true, but isn’t it US law that when you don’t defend your copyright by prosecuting possible infringements you lose it? So if Bethesda doesn’t sue Notch for “stealing” a word from their copyright they agree to forfeit their copyright, or something like that, I don’t speak Legalese.
05/08/2011 at 16:00 Ergates_Antius says:
The Langdell is dead. Long live the Langdell.
05/08/2011 at 16:00 Skusey says:
Is the the shortest RPS post ever?
On a more relevant, and with less potential to be mistaken as snarky note, this is daft.
05/08/2011 at 16:16 Quine says:
That sounds like a challenge to me:
- Shortest RPS post that imparts actual game news and has proper sentence construction with nothing essential left out…
Edit: …and not just a link to a thing.
05/08/2011 at 16:21 westyfield says:
The one about free Brink DLC was pretty short. Maybe five or six lines.
05/08/2011 at 16:22 Quine says:
Call that short?! I’ll show you short…
05/08/2011 at 17:29 Ced says:
Keep your dong in your pants boy.
On topic, this is pathetic, i’m sure we can all agree on that, no matter what side you’re on.
Shouldn’t be hard to win for notch though, if it’d come to a battle.
NOTCHBALL GO! *gets sued for infringing some korean copyright*
05/08/2011 at 19:47 Koozer says:
Muphry’s Law you say?
EDIT: also, wrong reply.
05/08/2011 at 21:47 Phasma Felis says:
No.
07/08/2011 at 00:16 Ryn Taylor says:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/13/hip-to-be-a-square-critical-mass-demo/
05/08/2011 at 16:01 Anarki says:
Check some sources, get some confirmation, then come back and post. Wouldn’t be the first time in recent weeks that RPS has posted a joke as news….
Edit: Also, remember E3 when Notch and Todd from Bethesda had a long sit down chat? Maybe it would have been brought up then?
05/08/2011 at 16:06 ReV_VAdAUL says:
In big companies sometimes one part will do one thing and a different part another so maybe Todd just didn’t know.
Seriously though, you’re right this needs to be confirmed before posting.
05/08/2011 at 16:07 skinlo says:
This. I saw the Twitter thing and guessed this would be on RPS. Of course its your site, but wouldn’t getting confirmed facts from both sides be better than just going off one Tweet.
05/08/2011 at 16:10 Alec Meer says:
FYI the story was only posted after we got this: http://bit.ly/qhhp0w
I still don’t know what to think, but if it’s real it’s just too huge/mad to overlook.
Awaiting reply from Bethesda, but trouble is they’re all out at Quakecon so we’re going to be waiting until Monday, most likely.
05/08/2011 at 16:13 Rich says:
Particularly true of a big company’s legal department. He may well have had a nice chat with one guy in the organisation with his head screwed on, but that doesn’t mean the same company’s legal team won’t have a go.
05/08/2011 at 16:17 Anarki says:
Notch has just made another tweet about it so I guess he’s not joking. Could well be a case of how companies have to actively defend their trademarks in order to still be allowed to use it. They might not take any action, just have to send a letter…
05/08/2011 at 17:31 MikoSquiz says:
Record companies used to almost routinely have A&R trying to hunt a given person down to sign them, while legal tried to hunt them down to sue them for using uncleared samples. One department of a large corporation seldom knows what another is up to.
05/08/2011 at 18:39 Zogtee says:
Being swedish, I can tell you that the letter at least looks legit. Lots of legal talk, no spellung errors, etc.
05/08/2011 at 19:02 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
“no spellung errors, etc.”
Ha! Is that intentional, or just Muphry’s Law in action?
05/08/2011 at 16:05 diebroken says:
Something ending with ‘Craft’… ScrollCraft?
Hmm…
/waiting for letter from Activision/Blizzard
05/08/2011 at 16:06 Anton says:
EdgeCraft!!!
05/08/2011 at 17:25 ChainsawCharlie says:
ScrollEdge
06/08/2011 at 07:14 MultiVaC says:
Edge of Scrollcraft: Modern CryShock.
05/08/2011 at 16:06 WaveOfMutilation says:
Is this because notch stole their 11.11.11 release date thunder?
05/08/2011 at 16:14 SnakeNuts says:
He’s already moved that away from there b/c he thought there would be too much focus on Skyrim and didn’t want to befuddle people.
Here: http://notch.tumblr.com/post/6969771554/back-in-the-office-and-some-words-on-1-7-and-1-8
05/08/2011 at 16:06 Tulse says:
I’d now like to see the working title changed to ‘World of Scroll’s Edge’.
05/08/2011 at 16:12 Ergates_Antius says:
“World of Scroll’s Edgecraft” perhaps?
05/08/2011 at 16:18 Quine says:
The Adventures Of Bethany Esda.
05/08/2011 at 21:04 Kryopsis says:
Edge of Scrollcraft
05/08/2011 at 16:07 PanzerVaughn says:
I can understand their concern, I get Minecraft and warcraft and the practise of witchcraft confused all the time.
Can you imagine showing up to your coven meeting with your own workbench and 200pounds of lumber? Oh man that was awkward.
05/08/2011 at 16:17 Soon says:
.
05/08/2011 at 16:20 PanzerVaughn says:
“You’re the Grey Notch! You’re wanted for…for… everything!”
05/08/2011 at 17:00 Sentient Waffle says:
Stop, you’re killing me!
06/08/2011 at 07:04 celticfang says:
Hey now…I take my diamond sword all the time and nobody cares…
Personally…I think that Bethesda are being a bit TOO keen in protecting their trademark. Could any reasonable person confuse Skyrim with Scrolls? I’m going off of…about three weeks of legal lessons, but I’m pretty sure that there shouldn’t be any reasonable doubt as to who made what, especially if the publishers’ logos are highly visible.
Oh, and Notch ought to do Call of Scrolls: Modern Edge too while I remember it.
05/08/2011 at 16:07 Daiv says:
Perhaps Notch should change the name to “The Rim of the Sky”.
05/08/2011 at 16:11 PanzerVaughn says:
Oh snap the floating-island dimension. =D
05/08/2011 at 16:19 RiptoR says:
+1 internets for you, dear sir. My hat off to you!
05/08/2011 at 16:45 PanzerVaughn says:
http://mobile.twitter.com/notch/status/99503887983198209 Confirmed! =D
05/08/2011 at 16:08 TheApologist says:
Have you got the scrolls?
No, I always walk like this.
05/08/2011 at 16:27 Berzee says:
I wish at this moment that I was a webcomic author JUST so I could steal this and make it a webcomic.
05/08/2011 at 16:38 TheApologist says:
It’s an old Morecambe and Wise gag I think. I looked for a vid to link to, but youtube doesn’t seem to have it.
05/08/2011 at 17:00 Bobsy says:
Philistines. It’s Up Pompeii.
05/08/2011 at 17:08 TheApologist says:
Gah! I can only apologise for my ignorance.
05/08/2011 at 17:23 phlebas says:
Surely the canonical response is ‘No, I’m a Goblin’?
05/08/2011 at 18:42 pepper says:
I’m quite sure Canonical wouldnt have much to say about that, unless Notch calls it The Scroll of Ubuntu Elders Rim a Sky.
05/08/2011 at 16:09 Kaira- says:
What would be this “Bethesta”-company that Notch speaks off?
Also, what was said above – I’d really waited for more information. Makes you look pretty stupid if this turns out to be a joke.
05/08/2011 at 16:09 p4warrior says:
If you’re this far down in the comments, you’ve had to scroll to get here. You will be contacted by Bethesda’s legal team, at which point you may pay the fine, go to jail, or resist arrest.
05/08/2011 at 16:10 ReV_VAdAUL says:
ALL HANDS TO SUING STATIONS!
05/08/2011 at 16:16 Rich says:
Prepare to repel lawyers!
05/08/2011 at 16:21 Durkonkell says:
THEN PAY WITH YOUR BLOOD!!!!
Also: Well this is silly, if true. Bethesda’s franchise is called “The Elder Scrolls”. Does that mean that they’re sending cease and desists out for all games using ‘The’ as well? Has ANYONE anywhere confused Mojang Specifications’ Scrolls with Bethesda Softworks’ The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim? Eh? Anyone?
05/08/2011 at 19:22 Heliocentric says:
I have 15 1920*1080 monitors mounted sideways in a 15 tall, 1 wide configuration Hung on the sloped ceiling of my staircase.
I’m currently scrolling* my stairlift to the top to click forums.
*oh snap
05/08/2011 at 19:52 Koozer says:
I never made the connection between the two before, but from now on whenver I see mention of Skyrim I’ll think of Scrolls. Great work lawyers!
05/08/2011 at 16:09 Parthon says:
I like how the giant developer thinks so little of their customers in that they could confuse a massive expansive RPG with an indie collectable card game.
05/08/2011 at 18:46 Phydaux says:
By the giant developer I assume you mean Mojang? They’ve outsold Bethesda on the PC by millions. I’m surprised Bethesda would risk going up against such a rich and liquid company in this time of economic hardship.
05/08/2011 at 19:05 Kaira- says:
I have hard time believing that Mojang with 3 million copies of Minecraft has outsold Bethesda on PC across… wait, let me count, Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Redguard, Battlespire, six games and their expansions.
06/08/2011 at 00:24 JackShandy says:
Not to mention that Minecraft’s selling at around ten bucks a pop, meaning that a million sales for Notch is barely a drop compared to a million sales for Skyrim.
06/08/2011 at 09:45 Phydaux says:
Number of Bethesda games that have sold over a million copies on PC: 0
Bethesda games sell very well on consoles, not on PC I’m afraid. (At least I can’t find any statistics that show that a Bethesda game has sold more than a million units on PC)
How much money have Bethesda put into game development? How much do they make in profit? I bet Mojang have much higher profit margins than Bethesda per unit, and Minecraft sells well on PC where Bethesda games tend not to.
I was being slightly facetious in my original post, Bethesda would clearly have a lot of money to throw behind a lawyer. But you have to remember Mojang aren’t some struggling indie company. They are a multi-million Euro company. There are many games companies that aren’t even turning a profit at the moment. It’s not David verses Goliath, it’s Goliath verses Goliath. To Bethesda, Mojang are competition. Mojang do have the potential to drown out Bethesda with talk of Scrolls on PC (not that I personally think it would affect Bethesda sales).
06/08/2011 at 10:22 Jimbo says:
Umm, no. There is no comparison between the size of -and resources available to- Bethesda (Zenimax) vs. Mojang. Minecraft is a very successful indie game; Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas were massively successful mainsteam titles, each selling multi-million units.
05/08/2011 at 16:10 wodin says:
Well they’ve just had their second injunction denied that was aimed at Interplay developing Falloutonline….and from what I’ve read it makes me happy they keep getting slapped down….
Motion Hearing held on 8/4/2011 [114] and [115] MOTIONS for Preliminary Injunction filed by Bethesda Softworks LLC – Argued – “DENIED” for reasons stated on the record by Chief Judge Deborah K. Chasanow. (Court Reporter: Sharon O’Neill) (td, Deputy Clerk)
Now this…this is the first games company I’ve ever taken a strong dislike too…sod em..they ruined the fallout games in my opinion and I have no interest in Skyrim (sounds like to S&M manouever)…
Now this…nobheads…
05/08/2011 at 16:20 mejoff says:
If Bethesda is the first gaming company you’ve ever taken a dislike to, you must not have been looking at the industry for very long, or in any great detail.
I’ll give you any odds it’s a joke anyway, As I mention below, Todd Howard and Notch have a bit of a history of this sort of jape. Todd probably emailed Notch from the bar at QuakeCon at about 4 in the morning with this.
05/08/2011 at 16:38 skinlo says:
Really? They are still quite high up the list for me. Fallout 3 was great imo (haven’t played NV), and Skyrim looks great.
05/08/2011 at 22:13 wodin says:
Fallout 3 was an abomination to the Fallout universe set up with Fallout 1 and 2…NV was better and followed the canon of the universe far more…but in comparison to the first two games they are pants…3D FPS style graphics doesn’t equate to a better game..Black Isle where going in the right direction with Van Buren the true Fallout 3 that never was…
As for other gaming companies getting on my nerves to be honest I’ve never really taken to much notice of their shenanigens…If Fallout 1 and 2 weren’t up there as my all time favourite games I probably would take no notice of Bethesda….but they are and Bethesda shat out F3 and NV…so I hate em…oh and Valve may be next as Red orchestra 2 looks like it’s been dumbed down to keep the mainstream crowd happy….if so I hate them aswell…
All this hate maybe because I hit 40 last Wednesday….who knows…fuckin hate birthdays anyway….and jobsworths I hate them…and Chavs…and Bethesda…and….
06/08/2011 at 00:02 Wulf says:
Fallout 3 was okayish in a dumb LOLOLOLOL sort of way. It wasn’t a particularly intelligent game. New Vegas was much better. You’re doing yourself a disservice by not trying New Vegas.
06/08/2011 at 01:03 InternetBatman says:
I would be more interested in Skyrim if it was an S&M maneuver.
Also, New Vegas kicks the pants off of Fallout 3. The world is more believable as a world, the storytelling is better, companions are more interesting, and there is just so much more stuff to do. People with believable dialog are everywhere.
I’m not saying Fallout 3 was bad, because it was a pretty fun game, but it’s not even in the same class as New Vegas.
05/08/2011 at 16:10 Amaraen says:
Doesn’t everyone call it “Skyrim” anyway?
No-one has come to me and said “HV U SEEN DA ELDER SCRALLS V STUFF”…
05/08/2011 at 16:16 Malibu Stacey says:
Pretty much this. The only time I’ve seen Morrowind & Oblivion go by their full titles was yesterday when I was looking at the QuakeCon sale stuff on Steam & even then I had to double take before I realised what they actually were.
05/08/2011 at 16:16 Symitri says:
Pretty much this, I haven’t referred or seen an Elder Scrolls game been referred to in it’s full name since Morrowind except in gaming news stories. Most gamers just say Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim because they’re easier to say.
05/08/2011 at 16:18 p4warrior says:
Pretty much this?
05/08/2011 at 16:24 westyfield says:
I sometimes call them the TES games, because then you can call Skyrim TESV (tez’v), Oblivion TESIV (teziv), and Morrowind TESIII (tezzy).
05/08/2011 at 16:27 Donjonson says:
prettayy prettaaay prett-aay …. much
05/08/2011 at 17:16 Joof says:
I don’t know about that. Before Skyrim was named, I always called it, “The next Elderscrolls”, and when comparing the different games in the series, I’ll say “Morrowind was my favorite Elderscrolls.”
05/08/2011 at 19:54 Berzee says:
“prettayy prettaaay prett-aay …. much”
this
06/08/2011 at 03:31 drewski says:
I can guarantee if you tried calling your new scifi shooter “Killdeath: Combat Evolved”, Microsoft would be down your pipes faster than the News of the World on a murder victim, even though everyone calls it “Halo”.
You can’t selectively protect trademarks based on how they’re actually used. The law may be an ass, but it’s an expensive one to be on the wrong side of.
06/08/2011 at 05:28 Berzee says:
So, you aren’t talking about Scrolls right now drewski, right? You’re talking about some case where somebody took an entire lengthy game title and changed one word and kept the rest of the title verbatim?
Because I’d have thought the scrolls example would be more like
“Halo: Combat Evolved” versus “Combat”
OH NOES MY TRADEMARK. CHANGE IT TO A WORD FOR COMBAT THAT HAS NEVER BEEN USED IN A GAME TITLE.
Edit: Apologies, none of my allcaps nonsense is really directed at you, more at the silliness of the situation. It’s just you are picking Subtly More Reasonable Than The Situation sort of examples, which makes the situation look more reasonable than it is. o_^
06/08/2011 at 13:00 drewski says:
Unfortunately this isn’t really a situation with direct parallels, because the Elder Scrolls series is just about the only one in gaming where the pre-title is really the name of the franchise, but each game has a different generally known title.
Perhaps a better analogy is someone releasing a platformer called “Mario” and not expecting a Nintendo banhammer.
06/08/2011 at 14:25 Berzee says:
Still not a satisfactory parallel because “Mario” is generally how those games are KNOWN. Like, if you say you were playing Mario, people know what series you were playing.
If you said a year ago that you were playing Scrolls, people would be like “Is that a new game?”
Maybe this is a better parallel: you’ve got
“Age of Empires”
“Age of Empires: Rise of Rome”
“Age of Empires: The Age of Kings”
“Age of Mythology”
etc…
You also have
“Age of Wonders” which is much more similar to the AoE games than Scrolls is to TES. If you said you were playing “Age”…nobody would really know which series or some other series you were talking about (Age of Sail?). Age is simply not that kind of word, unless a huge game comes out that burns it into our minds like Mario is stuck there.
And yet somehow these games and companies managed to survive together in the world. Maybe they had lawsuits, I didn’t pay attention to things like that back then, but nevertheless here they are. =)
You’re right though, I can’t think of such a long running series that has a rarely-used but always-present pretitle containing a common word. But as there has not yet been a precedent, hopefully this will set a precedent of anti-stupidity.
Edit: I just realized the best parallel would be if all of the many games with “Rage” in the title got together to send legal threats to the makers of “Rage”. But as we don’t know how Scrolls will go, we don’t know how that would go either. Except I think we have an idea how it *should* go =)
05/08/2011 at 16:15 Blackseraph says:
That’s grand.
If they are serious I won’t be buying skyrim, just to point out that they are morons.
Seriously this is bit hard to believe, negative pr from something this moronic would be huge. They must understand that.
05/08/2011 at 17:00 db1331 says:
Bullshit. You’ll still buy Skyrim.
05/08/2011 at 17:23 Blackseraph says:
I am very good at sticking to my principles, besides I didn’t like Oblivion at all, so I doubt I would miss much.
05/08/2011 at 17:35 Caerphoto says:
They’re lawyers, of course they don’t understand PR.
06/08/2011 at 00:28 Wulf says:
I won’t be buying Skyrim for entirely another reason. :|
In New Vegas I could talk my way out of killing, and where I couldn’t do that I could use beanbag rounds and melee weaponry, because I like not killing. And dragons are a very romantic prospect to me, so I refuse to kill them, it just doesn’t seem right. So long as the game forces the player to kill dragons, I won’t be interested.
When a mod comes along that allows other story paths, that’ll change, but Bethesda really need to learn something from Obsidian when it comes to the power of player choice.
05/08/2011 at 16:15 Jams O'Donnell says:
What strikes me as particularly odd is that Notch is a pretty vocal fan of TES, and has stated many times how excited he is about Skryim.
That’s not a very nice way to treat someone who’s been giving your product free publicity.
05/08/2011 at 16:16 Dawngreeter says:
This is good for Mojang. It’ll get Scrolls hella publicity. I can’t see any possible way this doesn’t benefit both the game and the developer, even if idiocy strikes and they are forced to change the name.
05/08/2011 at 16:16 mejoff says:
Notch and Todd Howard have had a running joke ‘feud’ over 11.11.11, I reckon this is just a bit of an escalation of that.
05/08/2011 at 16:16 Pop says:
Woah, better hold of on my Poke Monsters project till the dust settles on this one…
05/08/2011 at 16:17 Teddy Leach says:
But will Scrolls have INFINITE DRAGONS?
05/08/2011 at 16:24 Malibu Stacey says:
No but it will have ENDLESS BEARS. Which as everyone knows are way better.
05/08/2011 at 18:29 stahlwerk says:
There is only one endless bear, since all lines, even parallel ones, intersect in infinity.
05/08/2011 at 16:17 G915 says:
Wow, that’s pathetic, I thought Notch was on good terms with…well, everyone in the gaming industry. I have no idea why would they do this.
05/08/2011 at 16:17 PanzerVaughn says:
Maybe this is the only the AAA studio’s can think of getting in on some of that sweet sweet indie money…
05/08/2011 at 16:18 Soon says:
I assume every Bethesda legal document starts with: “Stop! You violated the law!”
05/08/2011 at 16:37 karry says:
And then you can either pay the fine or fight all the cops in the city, cutting your way to the Thieves Guild to deposit your bribe.
05/08/2011 at 17:01 Burning Man says:
“VeeYAHA!”
05/08/2011 at 21:56 Hoaxfish says:
Stop Right There Copyright Scum!
05/08/2011 at 16:19 woodsey says:
Sounds like a joke to me.
05/08/2011 at 16:20 Cydonos says:
This will never hold up in court, even if Notch represents himself, dressed in tattered rags.
05/08/2011 at 16:23 razgon says:
As far as I understand,a company that does not actively protect its trademarks and copyrights, risks losing them – thus, the need to take action, no matter if they actually succeed or not.
So, take issue with the lawgivers, your local governor if you are in the US, patent offices and the like.
Edit: yeah, according to Wiki, in the us you are required to actively protect your copyrights. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States
That’s probably all this is.
05/08/2011 at 16:28 Perrin says:
Good point, last thing Bethesda would want is to lose that trademark over the world “Scrolls” that they don’t have.
05/08/2011 at 16:36 ResonanceCascade says:
Just to clarify, you aren’t required to actively protect your copyrights in the U.S., just trademarks. Since the Elder Scrolls name is a trademark, I can see why they might, maybe, kinda need to send out this letter, but it’s a stretch.
05/08/2011 at 16:39 razgon says:
According to the US database, Elder Scrolls is definitely copyrighted – and according to Wiki (yeah, I know), you are required to actively protect copyrights
05/08/2011 at 16:46 Perrin says:
“Elder Scrolls” is protected not “Scrolls”. Like I’m sure they don’t have to go after anyone using the world Elder for anything else either.
If someone was using some derivative like The Old Scrolls to cause deliberate confusion it would make sense. That’s not the case here.
While I’m sure this will all be reversed and it’s an over zealous legal department I think giving Bethesda the out of saying they just had no other choice but to threaten legal action is ludicrous.
05/08/2011 at 16:52 razgon says:
hmm, I don’t know where my post went.
Anyways, I said that I found the alternative even more ludicrous actually :-D
05/08/2011 at 17:00 Ergates_Antius says:
I think they’d have more a case if someone used Elder something – “Elder books” “Elder wands”, “Elder Stories” sound like the might have something to do with “Elder Scrolls”.
A scroll is just a scroll though, the fantasy world is littered with them.
05/08/2011 at 17:05 ResonanceCascade says:
“According to the US database, Elder Scrolls is definitely copyrighted – and according to Wiki (yeah, I know), you are required to actively protect copyrights”
Trust me, you don’t have to actively protect copyrights or risk losing them. I took a very comprehensive copyright law class about a year ago, wikipedia is mistaken. ;)
They’re good for as long as you live, plus many decades after that, even if you never once try to stop someone who’s infringing.
And the Elder Scrolls actually is a trademark. Note the TM after it. From copyright.gov: “Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases.” The content of the game is copyrighted, not the name.
05/08/2011 at 18:11 Calabi says:
If they can copyright the word scrolls then we are all fucked. I mean literally every word is open for copyright.
05/08/2011 at 23:14 Sleepymatt says:
I plan to copyright the word “copyright” and then due the arse off every company ever. Eat that, corporate lawyers!!
05/08/2011 at 23:17 Sleepymatt says:
double post, bah!
06/08/2011 at 03:40 drewski says:
@ ResonanceCascade – you’re sort of right and wrong. No, you don’t have to defend copyright to keep it, but if you allow IP infringements to go unchallenged, it becomes much, much harder to later go after an infringer who is willfully and blatantly disregarding your IP rights.
There’s no legal requirement that you defend your trademarks to keep them, but maintaining an effective trademark is much more difficult if you do not.
06/08/2011 at 05:04 ResonanceCascade says:
I definitely oversimplified for the sake of making my broader point, but can I at least get some points for knowing the difference between a trademark and copyright, Mr. Lawyerpants? :)
06/08/2011 at 13:02 drewski says:
Absolutely!
05/08/2011 at 16:23 Vinraith says:
Dear Bethesda,
I like your games. I’d like to be able to continue buying your games in something remotely resembling good conscience. Please stop being stupid dicks.
Thank you for your time,
Vin
05/08/2011 at 16:50 Gnoupi says:
Dear Bethesda, I discovered you when I installed Morrowind on my computer, years ago.
Where have you gone since? Long time no see.
05/08/2011 at 17:05 Burning Man says:
Dear Bethesda,
When I think of EA, Activision and Ubisoft, I feel ill and need to go lie down. I feel moderately happy about your company’s apparent lack of insufferable greed and I think Todd Howard is a really cool guy. Please don’t be dicks. Please.
05/08/2011 at 22:34 Sheng-ji says:
Dear Vinraith
Thankyou for your letter. I hope you understand that there are people in our little company who make games, love games and gamers. We just want to make the best game in the world especially for you. But these people have families and need money to keep doing what they do best. The money comes from people who are good at making money and only giving it out if they get a bigger juicy cheque down the road. These people are dicks. And they hire lawyers, who are paid to act like dicks on their behalf.
Hope you understand,
Hugs
Beth
Dear Gnoupi,
We’re still here, doing our best. Sometimes people will only pay us to do what we do best if they get an “artistic influence” in the game. Sorry about that, but we do our best to tell them that just because they have money doesn’t make them good at designing games. We hope you do appreciate that every day we have meetings and try to sneak some of the good stuff in. Some even makes it into the final game… some!
We promise we will try to do better, but it is hard to bite the hand which keeps food on your babies high chair table.
All the best,
Beth
Dear Burning Man,
There really are some good guys over at EA and Ubisoft. Once in a while they manage to get heard too! Remember a game without a publisher won’t get a triple A budget and so won’t be of triple A quality. And publishers exist only to make money. But if they didn’t, then games would take ten steps backwards, so I guess they are a necessary evil. Just do your best to make choices that make you happy without paying to much attention to who published it or made it and I hope you hit a few home runs,
Best wishes
Beth
05/08/2011 at 22:42 Sheng-ji says:
Yes… That was deliberate
05/08/2011 at 22:52 Vinraith says:
But these people have families and need money to keep doing what they do best. The money comes from people who are good at making money and only giving it out if they get a bigger juicy cheque down the road. These people are dicks. And they hire lawyers, who are paid to act like dicks on their behalf.
Dear Beth,
Thanks so much for your reply.
In this instance, these people who act like dicks are costing you money, I highly suggest you reign them the fuck in. You do not own the word “scroll,” no one does. Attacking an indie studio for the use of a commonly available word is not acceptable business practice, it makes you look profoundly mean-spirited, not to mention incredibly stupid. Since the only way I can deny money to the dicks in your organization is to deny money to all of you, the dicks in your organization are currently endangering the meal on all of your tables.
Yours in Christ,
Vin
06/08/2011 at 03:42 drewski says:
Dear Vinraith
Please gain a vague understanding of the concept of intellectual property law before going off on rants about trademarks.
Sincerely
The Lawyers of the Internet
05/08/2011 at 16:24 Dana says:
Im pretty sure Elder Scrolls is a trademark, not Scrolls. You cant trademark “normal words”.
Is this new game really called “Scrolls” ?
05/08/2011 at 16:39 skinlo says:
Yes.
05/08/2011 at 17:42 PopeJamal says:
So if that were true, because “Scrolls” is a “normal” word, Notch wouldn’t be able to trademark the name either.
I don’t see what the big fuss is and I actually think they have a good point.
As far as I know, the way it works is that you can use the same/similar name for something as long as a “reasonable” person wouldn’t confuse the two things. So for example the McDonalds roofing company vs the McDonalds that sells “food”.
So let’s see if there are any similarities between the two games:
-Elder Scrolls – Goblins and guys with swords
-Scrolls – Guys with swords and goblins
Nope. Not similar at all…
05/08/2011 at 23:34 Berzee says:
“The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim”
“Scrolls”
This would be like
“Ewan McDonald’s Group: The Food Company”
“Mick’s Diner”
06/08/2011 at 00:45 thegooseking says:
You can trademark “normal words” within a given category; the word is still open for everyone to use in any other category. For example, Microsoft has a trademark on ‘Windows’ but they can’t sue glaziers because those glaziers aren’t selling software called ‘Windows’; they’re selling windows. Called ‘windows’.
However, this is exactly like Nintendo suing people for making a game including the word ‘Bros.’ in the title just because they own the trademark on “Super Mario Bros.”. Which Nintendo has never done because Nintendo is not stupid.
06/08/2011 at 03:49 drewski says:
It’s more like Nintendo telling a developer not to call their sidescrolling shooter “Super Shooter Bros” because they’ve trademarked “Super Mario Bros”.
06/08/2011 at 05:23 Berzee says:
No,
it’s more like Nintendo telling someone not to call their game
Super.
Or not to call their game
Brothers.
Your Super Shooter Bros. example would apply if Mojang’s new game was called
The Elder Biscuits: Arena
(first and last non-article word being the same, middle word changed).
06/08/2011 at 13:07 drewski says:
Or, as I used in response to a similar complaint earlier, “Mario”.
You can make the analogy that the game franchise is Super Mario (Bros), with World, Land, Paper, 64 etc. being the specific game names. And I can guarantee Nintendo would defend “Mario” to the death against anything even vaguely gaming related.
“Scrolls” is still quite a bit of an extended analogy to that, because it’s not as central to the franchise identity as Mario is to, well, Mario games, nor as unique an identifier, but that doesn’t mean it’s not still a valid and well known mark in the gaming industry for “fantasy game by Bethesda”. Again, direct analogies are difficult, but there’s no doubt in my mind that there’s a legal question to be argued here. Which doesn’t mean Zenimax are right or would win a hypothetical trademark case, but it sort of does mean they have to attempt to defend it if they want to maintain it’s full value.
07/08/2011 at 19:10 thegooseking says:
drewski, I don’t remember Nintendo suing over the 1991 Mega Drive game Mario Lemieux Hockey. That’s because it was obviously a different Mario (even if fans sometimes called him Super Mario), and Sega had a licence to use his name and likeness.
05/08/2011 at 16:28 Chris Livingston says:
This is common for Bethesda. First a threatening letter. Followed by a boasting letter, then an admiring letter, then a joking letter. They’re just trying to raise notch’s disposition.
05/08/2011 at 16:30 4026 says:
Man, what’s wrong with a simple charm spell?
05/08/2011 at 16:39 Pointless Puppies says:
Notch then sends a letter back, writing (yes, writing) in a young british woman’s accent, “Not now, not later, not evah”.
05/08/2011 at 16:48 sinister agent says:
Goddamn it, why is everyone today making me spill my tea? Is there some kind of contest?
05/08/2011 at 17:08 Burning Man says:
Even by RPS standards, that was pretty fucking awesome.
05/08/2011 at 19:06 ducdeeze says:
I created an account to give you props.
+2 props.
05/08/2011 at 16:29 magnus says:
I’ll just make a noise about Capitalism being EVIL and how downloading a torrent of Skyrim will really show Bethesda just how EVIL it is for daring to make a profit and how being tight-arsed enough to download a torrent is ‘giving it to the man’.
05/08/2011 at 16:52 Khann says:
Just go away please.
05/08/2011 at 19:42 magnus says:
Ooooh, get YOU!
05/08/2011 at 16:35 elmuerte says:
I’d contact Bethesda directly. It might be a slip up by the legal team they hired for this, those guys are usually quite aggressive.
I recall a similar issue where an army of undead (i.e. lawyers) hired by Epic Game became a bit overactive and contacted pretty much every fan site concerning the stylized “Unreal” on their websites, or using the Unreal logo. That of course wasn’t the intention of Epic Games.
Although Notch’s Scrolls isn’t a fan thingy for TES, this notice might still be the work of an overactive lawyer.
05/08/2011 at 16:36 elmuerte says:
ps, “Scrolls” is a dumb name for a game anyway. Pick something that will let your game show up in search result.
05/08/2011 at 17:44 evilbobthebob says:
In the UK, searching for Scrolls has Mojang’s Scrolls.com as the top result. The Elder Scrolls comes in a paltry 5th.
05/08/2011 at 16:35 soylentrobot says:
we’re not retarded Bethesda, we can tell the difference between two games
05/08/2011 at 16:36 Ergates_Antius says:
The only hope for Bethesda to emerge from this without looking like an enourmous bunch of arses is to retract, then pin it all on some scapegoat from the legal department, make a “he acted on his own without checking with us first” statement, then post a video of him being tarred and feathered on YouTube.
05/08/2011 at 16:38 Casimir Effect says:
What’s the legality of changing the title to “Bethesda Eat Dick”?
06/08/2011 at 03:52 drewski says:
Probably about the same. Bethesda presumably have a trademark over “Bethesda” in relation to computer games, so they could get to at least this point (threatening letter) without concern.
05/08/2011 at 16:38 Stellar Duck says:
Damn it! Now I’ve read the word scrolls so many times that it’s lost all meaning.
05/08/2011 at 16:44 Ergates_Antius says:
scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls scrolls…
05/08/2011 at 16:39 Antsy says:
Ah, but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s a lawyer for?
05/08/2011 at 16:42 Unaco says:
Probably for the best. Scrolls is a f*cking terrible name.
Also… Not many of us (if any of us) here are lawyers or work for Bethesda, so we don’t know/understand everything involved here. Is it the fact that Trademarks have to be ‘protected’ or they risk losing them? This could just be standard… something they don’t really want to do, but have to do, else they lose something or similar. Maybe in some territories TES games are not know primarily as their Subtitle (Morrowind, Oblivion, SkyRim) but are known mainly as ‘The Elder Scrolls X’, therefore there could be confusion? Maybe this is just made up, by Notch, for publicity? I assume the Lawyers don’t get an invite to QuakeCon, otherwise they’d be unlikely to have sent out the letter (just as it’s unlikely they’ll get back to RPS until Monday).
Also, I’d reckon Notch could have seen this coming many, many, many months ago… like when he announced the name, and, no doubt, someone turned to him and said “When do you expect the letter from Beth?”. It is just a name, so should be easy for Notch to change it… although he probably should have done that months ago.
05/08/2011 at 16:55 Blackseraph says:
Yeah, let’s allow bigger companies to bully smaller ones with legal threats, I mean what’s the problem.
Bethesda can’t win anything like this, so Notch should just let them sue to show public at large what sort of asshats bethesda apparently are.
05/08/2011 at 16:56 Ergates_Antius says:
It’s not a question of whether or not Bethesda should defend their trademarks, it’s a question of whether or not this should involve going after something because it includes one of the words in their trademark. Bethesda don’t have a trademark on “Scrolls”.
If someone made a game called “World” should then expect a letter from Blizzards lawyers?
05/08/2011 at 18:33 ResonanceCascade says:
Yeah, trademark protection is understandable since they literally have to protect them to keep them (even Valve won’t let modders use their trademarks, just their copyrights. Hence why we have “Black Mesa” instead of “Half-Life Remake”). But going after someone for using one word seems overzealous and unnecessary.
05/08/2011 at 19:52 Berzee says:
Yes, that would be life the creators of the game “Life” going after Half-Life, or Valve going after Second Life, or Second Life going after The 10 Second Gospel.
06/08/2011 at 03:58 drewski says:
There are a lot of legal arguments that could be made – one that immediately springs to mind is that by calling your fantasy game “Scrolls”, you might confuse people into thinking it’s a spin off of the “well known” The Elder Scrolls series.
I *am* a lawyer, although I don’t specialise in IP law, and I would say this is neither surprising nor unusual.
08/08/2011 at 13:29 Berzee says:
“I *am* a lawyer…and I would say this is neither surprising nor unusual.”
I…see…
05/08/2011 at 16:43 Loopy says:
I remember them. :)
05/08/2011 at 16:44 Waste says:
Too late for a “Stop right there, criminal scum!” joke?
05/08/2011 at 16:59 mejoff says:
About a page late, yes.
05/08/2011 at 16:46 sinister agent says:
Hopefully he’ll reply with “if you’re going to sue me, then fuck off and sue me. I could do with a new car anyway.”
06/08/2011 at 04:01 drewski says:
IP fights invariably comes down to who has the most money. Very few IP cases are ever won or lost – they’re generally settled when they become too expensive for one party.
Notch won’t “win” an IP case against Bethesda. Not because he’s wrong, but because he can’t afford it. Minecraft is popular, but it’s nothing compared to the financial resources of Zenimax.
Not that this will get anywhere near that point.
05/08/2011 at 16:48 bagitomacho says:
I hope it ain’t serious. I really hope it’s just some person off the net who’s really good at pretending to be a lawyer from Bethesda.
Lawyer: “Minecraft” you say? You can’t use that name because Blizzard owns “Craft” and.. er… Minesweeper owns “Mine!” Maybe we can call your game something like Diggingblocks.
05/08/2011 at 17:01 Wilson says:
Hehe, Diggingblocks is a funny name.
05/08/2011 at 16:58 razgon says:
heh, I just noticed, the first hit I get on google from typing in Scrolls is Notch’s Scrolls, and Bethesda is coming in at a 5th place.
05/08/2011 at 17:08 Walsh says:
Ding ding ding, that can be argued as dilution of Bethesda’s trademark.
05/08/2011 at 19:57 Rinox says:
But if I type “Elder Scrolls” I get Skyrim and not Scrolls…
In short, Bethesda are being a bunch of lame fucks.
05/08/2011 at 17:03 Ham Solo says:
Dear Bethesda.
I know you created “Fallout 3″, but “3″ is already a Trademark of idware’s “Quake 3 Arena”, Please rename your game, people might confuse it and I will sue you.
This is *almost* too pathetic to joke about.
05/08/2011 at 17:04 ResonanceCascade says:
Reply flizzle.
05/08/2011 at 17:05 Drake Sigar says:
I thought about scrolling down to read the comments but feared they’d sue me too.
05/08/2011 at 17:07 jonfitt says:
The legal document is 15 pages, however only the first page contains any information. The other 14 are just Bethesda asking Notch if he’s seen any Mud Crabs.
06/08/2011 at 00:46 Rinox says:
Horrible creatures.
05/08/2011 at 17:07 Dionysus says:
Was the threatening legal document sent in scroll form?
05/08/2011 at 23:35 Berzee says:
That would have shown far too much insightful quality.
05/08/2011 at 17:10 man-eater chimp says:
The Dead Sea Scrolls have a fight to pick with Bethesda methinks…
05/08/2011 at 17:19 Fitzmogwai says:
Change your apps name. Not that big of a deal.
Steve
Sent from my iPhone
05/08/2011 at 17:21 Dominic White says:
Bethesda claiming to own the word ‘Scrolls’ is akin to Lucasfilm claiming to own the words ‘Star’ or ‘Wars’.
05/08/2011 at 17:27 aircool says:
But not Storm and Trooper for some bizarre reason…
05/08/2011 at 19:25 Temple says:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERsa.htm
05/08/2011 at 20:08 Nick says:
yes… that was the joke aircool was making.
05/08/2011 at 17:23 Lemming says:
Don’t people mostly refer to Bethesda’s games as ‘Morrowind’, ‘Oblivion’, ‘Skyrim’ etc? Surely no one focuses on the Elder Scrolls part of the title? They even make that part in a smaller font on the covers, ffs.
05/08/2011 at 17:26 aircool says:
But how does this affect the Eurozone?
05/08/2011 at 19:24 Temple says:
Fuckin’ terribly, I’d imagine.
05/08/2011 at 17:32 RC-1290'Dreadnought' says:
Suing other companies is just another form of cross promotion. Bethesda mentions Mojang’s new game, scrolls. Mojang mentions Bethesda’s new game, Skyrim. Its inspired by Valve’s hats and ARG’s. I’m not sure they’re doing it right though…
05/08/2011 at 19:26 Temple says:
There will be a dungeon in Skyrim made of blocks and dragons in minecraft.
05/08/2011 at 17:35 Demiath says:
As unwarranted as their outrage is, at least now Bethsoft (or their lawyers, anyway) have a rudimentary understanding of what fans of Fallout felt when the Elder Scrolls developer released their weird standalone sci-fi mod for Oblivion (the one with a “3″ at the end)…
05/08/2011 at 21:43 Davie says:
I assume this is yet another dig at Fallout 3, but I’m not actually sure what you’re trying to say here.
05/08/2011 at 22:14 Demiath says:
I’m saying that while Notch’s purported trademark violation is more of an issue in strictly legal terms compared to Bethesda using the Fallout name which they payed for, at the end of the day there’s still no question who are the real thieves here…
05/08/2011 at 22:17 wodin says:
If anyone has played F1 and F2 back in the day then they know that F3 is shite….pure utter shit…some of the true Fallout advocates like New Vegas…but I think it’s shit aswell….all I can say is in a better universe Van Buren was completed and we would have the rightful Fallout 3 game gracing our hard drives…
05/08/2011 at 22:25 AndrewC says:
The thing I like best about Fallout 3 is never having to agree with Fallout fans.
06/08/2011 at 04:07 drewski says:
I hate the way it’s just assumed anyone who’s a Fallout “fan” from 1 & 2 days automatically hates the new ones.
I loved Fallout 3. It’s different, obviously, but it’s still great. It’s still a Fallout game.
05/08/2011 at 17:37 Hmm-Hmm. says:
I’m not a lawyer so I have no idea whether it makes sense (i.e.: is necessary for them) to even do this. But even so, Scrolls seems like a really, really bad name for a game.
05/08/2011 at 17:44 Kdansky says:
Anyone who wanted an excuse to pirate Skyrim just got a really good one. Well done, Bethesda.
05/08/2011 at 18:14 Berzee says:
A really good one if you’re an idiot.
Edit: Or Robin Hood?
05/08/2011 at 18:34 Drake Sigar says:
If you’re against a company’s business practices you could make a statement by not playing it at all. But I guess that would require the barest smattering of self-restraint.
05/08/2011 at 19:43 Berzee says:
To be fair though, Kdansky is talking about people who “are looking for an excuse to pirate” — so I guess this *would* satisfy that sort of person. (As opposed to people who pirate without making excuses, and people who don’t pirate).
06/08/2011 at 04:10 drewski says:
Pirates might pretend they’re justifying their actions for various moral reasons, but I have no doubt the overwhelmingly vast majority of them would do it anyway.
06/08/2011 at 14:51 karry says:
“Anyone who wanted an excuse to pirate Skyrim just got a really good one. ”
Why is that ? For example, i dont give a flying fuck about Minecraft, and am bemused and irritated on the subject of extremely bloated hype and hysteria surrounding it.
05/08/2011 at 17:47 Zorganist says:
Apparently my gran’s just been sued by Bethesda for being Elder-ly. I think they might be going for the sky next.
05/08/2011 at 17:48 mollemannen says:
isn’t this a little bit late? or did it take them half a year writing 15 pages of text? perhaps it’s the doing of dragons that bethesda is so proud of. god damn dragons.
05/08/2011 at 18:03 satsui says:
Reading the Swedish here, and yeah.. it basically says what Notch said. SCROLLS has parts of ELDER SCROLLS in it, blah blah blah, similarities blah blah blah.
05/08/2011 at 18:04 skurmedel says:
What the page posted by Notch says is basically, that it is common in the entertainment industry to use titles with common elements. The lawyer then draws comparison to the Warcraft games, such as World of Warcraft, Warcraft 3, and Nintendo’s Super Mario Bros, Mario Bros, the common element being Warcraft and Mario Bros.
I guess this is the justification given for their trademark infringement claim.
Certainly looks authentic to me. Swedish legalese. Of course, Notch could’ve printed out several A4 pages with his own legalese and taken a photo of it. Not very plausible though.
05/08/2011 at 18:41 jti says:
Sure, but the case is very weak. Maybe they try to scare Notch off?
05/08/2011 at 19:01 skurmedel says:
Yes, quite lame in fact.. but I’m no law expert. It’s a Swedish lawyer at least, so I hope it ends up in Swedish court. Or they could try dragging him to the US, where these things are less pleasant to say the least.
06/08/2011 at 04:13 drewski says:
I wouldn’t say “very” weak. I wouldn’t say “strong”, either.
I’d say this is the sort of argument that makes lawyers rich.
05/08/2011 at 18:33 Nero says:
Uh oh, Notch better call in Leif Silbersky for advice.
05/08/2011 at 19:04 skurmedel says:
Haha, then he’ll end up on TV for sure.
05/08/2011 at 18:42 n0b says:
I sat there for a moment trying to remember which Bethesda game was called Scrolls. Took me a second.
05/08/2011 at 18:43 Warskull says:
This seems like a really dumb move on Bethesda’s part. People like Minecraft and people like Notch. If Notch wanted to be vindictive all he would have to do is post on his blog telling people not to buy Skyrim. Enough Minecraft fans would listen to put a dent in Bethesda’s sales.
05/08/2011 at 19:03 Tei says:
HALT, NOTCH. HALT HALT HALT HALT HALT HALT HALT HALT.
Is patetic, but also hilarius.
I have never heard any Elder Scroll game be called “Scrolls”. Since theres more than one game will be confusing “I was playing scrolls” “Scrolls what?” “Elder Scrolls” “Elder..Scroll.. or, you mean the Morrowind and Oblivium games!”. “Yea”.
No one uses the words “scrolls” for the elders scrolls games.
05/08/2011 at 20:09 Nick says:
Hah, Daggerfall guards reference!
05/08/2011 at 19:21 Temple says:
Games Workshop are releasing Eldar Scrolls soon hopefully.
Kept forgetting what I wanted to say as I laughed my way through the comments.
05/08/2011 at 20:11 MythArcana says:
The real tragedy of this whole ordeal is that Notch will actually have to put down his XBawks controller to actually field this mess.
05/08/2011 at 20:47 The Sentinel says:
No, the real tragedy is you thought that comment was amusing.
05/08/2011 at 21:09 Kryopsis says:
Bravo, The Sentinel!
05/08/2011 at 20:24 Dr I am a Doctor says:
That’s completely irrelevant, Magnetic Scrolls were developers. Also they finished with making games before the first TES game
05/08/2011 at 21:19 Tei says:
Some people say that this can be a rogue operation, not initiated by Bethesda.
05/08/2011 at 21:24 Hoaxfish says:
Morrowind
Oblivion
Skyrim
What “Scrolls”?
05/08/2011 at 21:26 Bilbo says:
They haven’t trademarked the word Scroll, so they can, as I’ve become accustomed to saying, “suck a big bag of dicks”.
06/08/2011 at 04:14 drewski says:
That’s not how trademarks work.
05/08/2011 at 21:37 Davie says:
It’s not like anyone even is referring to this as Elder Scrolls Five, it’s always just Skyrim. Hell, half the people I know (who are nubs) are referring to it as “Oblivion 2″. This honestly seems too stupid to be serious.
05/08/2011 at 21:39 Leo says:
Equally ludicrous (pay attention now): The patenting of specific genes in the human genome, on the basis of them being ‘discoveries in the field of biology’. Which leads to genetic testing for, say, the breast cancer gene being monopolized by one corporate entity in the US. Luckily the rest of the world decided to ignore said patent.
…Equally ludicrous…
06/08/2011 at 04:17 drewski says:
It’s not really the same at all, no.
05/08/2011 at 21:47 Nick Ahlhelm says:
He should just call it “Notch’s Scrolls” and they really wouldn’t have anything to say in American court. Don’t know about Sweden though.
05/08/2011 at 21:53 Hoaxfish says:
“Notch’s Scrolls” just makes me think “Scrotum”, but maybe that’s just dyslexia
06/08/2011 at 04:21 drewski says:
I suspect Bethesda’s lawyers would be very, very happy with that solution. Their goal is not to sue Notch to oblivion (…lol) but simply to protect their trademark. Clearly differentiating the rival product would achieve that.
05/08/2011 at 22:08 domowoj says:
Bethesda’s development and publishing arms and ZeniMax’s legal arms are not the same thing and i really wish people would make that distinction instead of going BETHESDA IS EVIL.
ZeniMax sent this letter – not Bethesda. it’s exceedingly likely this topic was never even brought up with Bethesda proper.
05/08/2011 at 22:19 wodin says:
Bethesda love the courts…ask Interplay…
06/08/2011 at 04:22 drewski says:
Even Zenimax probably haven’t had an active role in this beyond telling some law firm 5 years ago to protect our IP plz kthxbai.
05/08/2011 at 22:19 Buttless Boy says:
Holy shit. I can actually imagine the PC community getting angrier about this than the Diablo III clusterfuck.
05/08/2011 at 23:55 Josh W says:
They have a much older and more established game series, there’s no reason to go after notch.
In fact it might be better for them, as there will now be some younger scrolls to go with their elder ones.
06/08/2011 at 00:44 jti says:
To be honest the name is the last thing that is making me to wait this game.
06/08/2011 at 00:47 JackShandy says:
I’m told if you work in the game industry, you will get sued sooner or later. Even past this kind of naming stuff, there’s copyrights/patents on specific game mechanics – like, having a game run during a loading screen is/was copyrighted by some asshole. The courts don’t properly understand the beast.
06/08/2011 at 08:55 adonf says:
That’s true, but I’m sure a lot of us were hoping that the money we spent on Minecraft would go toward game development (and the purchase of horses), not into lawyers’ pockets. So let’s hope they settle this amicably without Mojang spending millions on lawyer fees.
06/08/2011 at 01:01 InternetBatman says:
Here’s one for The Scroll.
http://www.amazon.com/Scroll-DOS/dp/B0006HIQ9Y/ref=sr_1_83?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1312588534&sr=1-83
06/08/2011 at 01:20 Muzman says:
We should all mail them stale dried out coffee scrolls from the local bakery since they want to claim ownership.
06/08/2011 at 01:46 Hulk Handsome says:
via auntiepixelante: guys i heard bethesda is revamping emperor uriel septim for the new elder scrolls game http://twitpic.com/61jn81
06/08/2011 at 04:26 drewski says:
This will be cleared up amicably within a month.
06/08/2011 at 05:21 Berzee says:
But have you ever thought that maybe instead it will RUIN GAMES FOREVER?
06/08/2011 at 13:09 drewski says:
Not yet.
But soon.
06/08/2011 at 04:40 poop says:
bethesda is not claiming ownership of the word “scrolls”
06/08/2011 at 07:08 celticfang says:
Okay so I’m after an answer to this question.
In the entertainment industries, it’s common to use common words in titles, yet what happens if said words are part of a trademark?
Let’s say I trademarked Foobar Feepping Creatures as a PS3 game, and somebody came along and launched a site called Feep, would they have to change the name to avoid confusion, or would there be a sufficient difference between the two items as to avoid confusion?
06/08/2011 at 13:15 drewski says:
It depends on the usage of each term. If you claim the use of the mark “feep” in relation to a particular industry – in this case, videogames – and someone later comes along trying to profit from use of your mark “feep” in relation to videogames, you might have a case against them. If their use of the word feep related to another industry – sometimes even another sector within the same industry – then you probably don’t have a claim.
The classic example of this is Apple – when they started using that mark to identify computer technology, Apple Corps (holding company for the record label of The Beatles) got into a trademark war with them. Obviously Apple Corps don’t own the use of the word “apple”, but they DO have a right to use it in certain fields of business. Eventually that particular fight was settled by Apple Computers agreeing to stay out of the music industry…which was fine until they launched iTunes. Cue second shitfight.
Basically you’re (almost) always protected within your own industry, and sometimes protected and sometimes not in other industries, depending on context. Fox successfully shut down the brewer of a “Duff” beer, for example.
07/08/2011 at 01:30 Berzee says:
But if I have a record label called
“The Dogs And Cats Of America”
does that mean that nobody else is allowed to have a record label with the word “Dog” or “Cat” or “America”?
No of course not. That would be silly — there aren’t enough words to go around if that’s true. =P
The Apple vs. Apple Corps thing makes a bit more sense because Apple is the main word of a very short name in both cases…i.e. people referring to either one might call it “Apple”.
06/08/2011 at 08:51 adonf says:
I’m going to make a game called “The” and wait for the trademark infringement money to flow
Wait, that’s not the way it works is it ?
06/08/2011 at 09:30 namad says:
bethseda’s lawyers are insane… just look at the fallout online case… where they’ve alleged 10289102810 things and had all their claims dismissed… they’ve even accused people of doing TWO opposite things causing the judge to be like wtf you morons.
bethseda is probably serious, they can’t possibly win the claim is insane, but they can hope to scare notch into changing his plans … not with fear of losing but with fear of how annoying the court case could be (although it would actually prolly just be dismissed by the judge on the first day the cost of preparing for that day would be high)
06/08/2011 at 13:29 drewski says:
You’re misunderstanding the nature of the lawsuit. What Bethesda had dismissed was their application for a preliminary injunction preventing Interplay from working on Fallout Online before the overall case is decided. Absolutely nothing else in the case has been settled.
06/08/2011 at 14:18 povu says:
I’d expect to see Activision sueing over Call of Juarez or Call of Pripyat earlier than this.
06/08/2011 at 15:11 Whelp says:
Wow, Bethesda are incredibly full of shit.
06/08/2011 at 16:17 AgamemnonV2 says:
I like how the Notch Defense Brigade is making piss-poor comparisons with Tim Langdell’s “Edge Games,” which hasn’t done a damn thing in ten years, with Mojang’s fantasy card game with Vikings and magic called Scrolls with an even more popular fantasy series with Vikings and magic called The Elder Scrolls.
06/08/2011 at 23:20 Wulf says:
Sorry. No. Nords aren’t vikings. Not even remotely close to.
06/08/2011 at 23:24 AndrewC says:
And wargs aren’t wolves, and orcs aren’t goblins and High Elves aren’t Dark Elves and and and.
07/08/2011 at 01:23 Pantsman says:
Why on Earth would Bethesda have hired Tim Langdell?
07/08/2011 at 01:47 PetiteGreve says:
By the way, aren’t TES games often called only by their last name (Daggerfall, Oblivion, Morrowind, etc), to the point of having some people forgetting the whole “The Elder Scrolls” ? It would be making the whole “Elder Scrolls/Scroll” potential confusion less than probable.
Mojang trying to trademark “Scrolls” is a much more important news in my opinion, it’s like trademarking “Sword”, it’s just too generic.
They should add something “Scrolls of Bananas” (or “Scrolls : Bananas On Fire”) to avoid taking the generic word, it’s some kind of public good (at least it should be imo).
Trademarking “Scrolls” would be like installing a pump at the source to take 100% of the flow and trademarking “Water”, you just don’t do it : like everyone needs water to live, everyone needs generic words (like “Scrolls”) when they’re naming their magic-featuring game.
07/08/2011 at 02:34 Tuan says:
I think this says it all:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=the+elder+scrolls%2C+skyrim%2C+oblivion%2C+minecraft&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
First, compare Oblivion to The Elder Scrolls.
Next, compare all of those to Minecraft.