By Quintin Smith on June 16th, 2011 at 1:01 pm.
It’s been confirmed. Yesterday Warner Bros released the box art for Batman: Arkham City (due this October), which turned out to be an amusingly back-handed way of announcing that the game would use Microsoft’s less-than-perfect PC gaming frontend, Games For Windows Live, seeing as the GFWL logo is stuck there right at the top of the box like some kind of barnacle of bad taste. (Edit: Arkham Asylum also used GFWL, of course.)
Never mind. At least the box art is nice. Which means nothing in this day and age of digital downloads. NEVER MIND.
I wrote a poem about this Batman box art for you.
Look at him there,
all boob and cape
Has he been punching jam donuts? Of course not
He is Batman. He does not enjoy desserts or cakes
of any kind.
He has been out punching criminals, of course
Trying to make the world a better place,
for you and I
How dare you think he has been wasting his time,
beating up donuts
You are a shame
Thanks Batman
(Quintin Smith, 2011)
16/06/2011 at 13:02 skinlo says:
Such a shame.
16/06/2011 at 13:04 Man Raised by Puffins says:
Indeed,
a shame.
Indeed.
16/06/2011 at 13:05 Thirdstar says:
Goddammitsomuch. Torn between playing an awesome game and losing the save files for said game……again!
16/06/2011 at 13:17 Dlarit says:
so it’ll be cheaper on the Pc than the 360 and I can still increase my gamer score? I’m a glass half full kinda guy!
16/06/2011 at 13:35 8-bit says:
shame on them, oh well the ps3 it is then.
16/06/2011 at 13:44 Diziet Sma says:
I took that route with Dirt 3… no real probs to speak of apart from the cycle of patch/restart/patch when I first installed it. Having said that I expect this’ll be a 360 game for me unless I still need to scrimp the pennies when it comes out.
16/06/2011 at 16:24 Ezhar says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbZ9uCQW1Hk
16/06/2011 at 18:16 Ryz says:
Yeah, Dlarit. Us PC gamers are so happy you can raise your fake gamer score on the cheap. Congratulations, man!
:(
16/06/2011 at 19:11 chinchinpaopin says:
I want to cuss so bad but I am at a point where I am so angry I can’t find one true cuss word to come out of my mouth so I just sit here angry and feel like I am going to just start crying!
16/06/2011 at 20:18 Dlarit says:
“Yeah, Dlarit. Us PC gamers are so happy you can raise your fake gamer score on the cheap. Congratulations, man!”
@Ryz lol you make it sound like they did this just for me, sorry pc gamers of the world!
PS for the record i go for a 30/70 Xbox/PC gaming split.
PPS where do i get this ‘Real’ gamer score?
16/06/2011 at 13:04 McDan says:
I’m hollerring! But also cheating as I’m playing arkham asylum at the same time as reading…I tried to think of a batman haiku to 1-up quinns but they take me about half an hour sometimes. You are right, I am a shame.
16/06/2011 at 14:54 and.nor.so says:
Not out on PC
This fall, would be much worse than
GFWL
16/06/2011 at 13:04 godgoo says:
poet laureate?
16/06/2011 at 13:39 BooleanBob says:
A generation of British schoolchildren will attest that this is better than Carroll Anne Duffy.
edit: and Andrew Motion, combined (Gods, what a horrible thought).
16/06/2011 at 14:54 Cooper says:
Not as good as Craig the Rage McLelland off off One Life Left…
16/06/2011 at 15:54 Daniel Rivas says:
I dunno, that one about the knife and the radio or something was alright.
16/06/2011 at 13:07 Binman88 says:
Can’t say GFWL got in the way of my experience with Arkham Asylum, so I’m ok with this.
16/06/2011 at 13:15 Ephaelon says:
Likewise. The only caveat would be the inability to move saves around if switching computers, but that’s a minor issue, personally.
16/06/2011 at 13:38 airtekh says:
Same here.
I’ve used GFWL in a couple of games now and I can’t honestly say that I’ve had any problems with it.
16/06/2011 at 13:46 subedii says:
Yeah, I’ll be upfront and say I utterly utterly despise GFWL, I hate it as much as anyone for the sheer annoyance it’s caused me over the years…
However, for singleplayer games, it’s usually largely ignorable. Apart from savegame shenanigans, still hate that.
I’d be happier if it wasn’t there, but I can live with it as long as I don’t have to deal with it for multiplayer stuff.
16/06/2011 at 14:24 adonf says:
Are you guys saying that you cannot keep your old saves when you reinstall or upgrade your computer, even with the same GWFL account? That would be really really bad…
16/06/2011 at 14:35 subedii says:
Savegame transfers with GFWL titles can charitably be described as “finnicky”. Largely owing to the way the savegames are encrypted and tied to accounts. You need to transfer over a couple of directories wholesale to get anywhere IIRC.
This is the closest relevant information I could find:
http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/441024-gta-iv-saved-game-transfer.html
16/06/2011 at 14:41 m3metix says:
As Subedii said it requires moving some extra stuff over, but I just did it recently and didn’t have any problems with accessing my Arkham Asylum save games.
16/06/2011 at 15:12 adonf says:
Haha, I like how they made PC gaming “simpler”…
16/06/2011 at 15:24 meatshit says:
The first time I played B:AA, I lost 4 hours worth of saves because of GFWL fuckery, so I’m much less ok with this.
16/06/2011 at 15:34 ArtVandelay says:
I’ve had no problems transferring saves from multiple computers with GTA IV, Fallout, RE5, and AA. You can even transfer them to different usernames. You just need to know which files to move and then just copy them to your username in the save game folder for that game.
16/06/2011 at 16:21 Dirtyboy says:
Lost late game saves on Fallout 3 and Batman because GFWL screwed up.
16/06/2011 at 17:40 Saiko Kila says:
I lost all my achievements on GFWL (though I cared about Fallout 3 mostly, not stupid Batman’s) and had problems with saves, so I simply won’t buy another GFWL game, unless it is very, very cheap.
16/06/2011 at 13:07 Icarus says:
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU–
16/06/2011 at 13:08 utharda says:
Its not that the game uses GFWL, that’s how they’re announcing the main villain. Right at the top of the box. Alot scarier than the joker… But I don’t really need to see Ballmer in the Harley costume.
16/06/2011 at 13:08 ezekiel2517 says:
In protest, I will only buy it for as much as I paid for the first: 22.09 USD with Just Cause included. It would be nice to get the second and I might actually play that one.
16/06/2011 at 13:09 rareh says:
Well look on the bright side, at least it doesn’t use steamworks.
16/06/2011 at 13:11 NR says:
Haha, I gotta say, I do love the new block button!
(Not that that has anything to do with this particular post, obviously…)
16/06/2011 at 13:14 Malibu Stacey says:
Block button should be renamed to “click to ignore obvious troll”
16/06/2011 at 13:40 Wilfred says:
obvious troll is obvious
16/06/2011 at 13:44 subedii says:
Well look on the bright side, at least it doesn’t use rareh.
16/06/2011 at 15:01 Kaira- says:
In the best situation it wouldn’t use Steamworks nor GFWL nor any other online-client-shenanigans.
16/06/2011 at 13:09 fitzroy_doll says:
In my head GFWL is pronounced “Gawful”.
16/06/2011 at 14:04 Wunce says:
Well, upon first encountering the GFWL acronym on RPS I originally thought that it was some sort of computer slang for “God Awful”. Apparently I was right, but not quite in the way I was expecting…
16/06/2011 at 14:05 Jumwa says:
Nice. I’ll have to remember that. How appropriate.
Well, I’ll be relegating this title to a bargain bin pickup when it goes on sale for $5.
16/06/2011 at 21:48 JiminyJickers says:
I can’t remember where I read it but my favourite one is: GFWL stands for Get F#$%ed Without Lube.
16/06/2011 at 13:09 Ninja Dodo says:
I guess I’m getting this on PS3 then.
16/06/2011 at 13:11 Lars Westergren says:
Crap. Well, the first game was good enough that I could grit my teeth and bear it, I expect I will be able to do the same for this.
Create an “offline” profile and 95% of the problems go away (after the initial super annoying swarm of incremental GFWL auto updates and computer reboots are over that is).
16/06/2011 at 13:11 westyfield says:
Indeed.
A less-than-perfect PC gaming frontend?
Not a PC gaming frontend for me,
Indeed.
16/06/2011 at 13:12 jon_hill987 says:
Gah. Guess what I won’t be buying on release then.
16/06/2011 at 13:12 Malibu Stacey says:
Congratulations on another lost sale Rocksteady.
I will however still play it but without lowering myself to the usual illegal methods espoused around these parts when DRM issues of this ilk arise.
I will simply purchase a used copy for the PS3 as I did for Arkham Asylum.
16/06/2011 at 13:19 The Sombrero Kid says:
So you’d rather give money to retailers who’re gouging publishers than say pirate it and give the money to charity, that would probably make you Lawful Neutral in baldurs gate terms.
16/06/2011 at 13:28 jon_hill987 says:
At least it isn’t the chaotic evil you are suggesting. Giving the money to charity does not count as good if it is only being done to ease your conscience.
I’m a true neutral on the subject BTW, I simply won’t play it if I don’t like the DRM.
16/06/2011 at 13:38 Robert says:
You might argue chaotic neutral; evidently chaotic because of the non-lawfulness, and neutral because you try to put a equivalent (in terms of moneys) good deed against the evil deed.
16/06/2011 at 14:44 Ovno says:
I would say its a clear example of chaotic good….
The chaotic easily covers the theft part as you do not respect the law.
And then good because you are giving money to the poor & needy, even if you do profit from it yourself too.
Chaotic neutral does not mean that you balance your actions it means that you simply don’t care about good and evil.
Also chaotic evil is reserved for baby eaters and donkey rapists, not game pirates they are at worst neutral evil which is defined as selfish and completely uncaring about others a prime example of which is stealing for profit or hoarding all the food and water while your friends starve to death.
And it’s not the Baldur’s Gate System it’s Adnd’s alignment system used in bg becuase its an adnd game….
Oh and…
“Giving the money to charity does not count as good if it is only being done to ease your conscience.”
Yes it does…
a) a good act is a good act regardless of justification, just as a the ends do not justify the means when its an evil act the end (easing your conscience) does not invalidate the means when its a good act.
b) having a conscience marks you as good because true evil, which is what the what the adnd alignment system judges not percieved good and evil, does not have what we would call a conscience.
“I’m a true neutral on the subject BTW, I simply won’t play it if I don’t like the DRM.”
That’s not true neutral, that’s Lawful {blank}, you won’t play it if you don’t like the drm because its the law or if its because you view it as immoral then you’re {Blank} Good, unless its both in which case you may as well be a paladin with that Lawful Good you’ve got there…
16/06/2011 at 17:22 Cooper says:
Ovno, here, have some internets, 1000 of them.
16/06/2011 at 13:13 Vexing Vision says:
The savegames, they fail
Not so safe in windows-cloud
What a shame, indeed.
16/06/2011 at 13:13 The Sombrero Kid says:
MORE POEMS FROM QUINTIN!
16/06/2011 at 13:14 Daiv says:
So this game is called Games for Windows Live. I can’t quite make out the writing on that bat-symbol but I’m sure it’s not important.
At least Steam doesn’t have terms in the contract that demand their logo takes up 15% of the cover space…
16/06/2011 at 13:14 zeroskill says:
NNNJOOOOOUUUUUUUUU
16/06/2011 at 13:14 The Sombrero Kid says:
also despite Batman AA being the best game of the previous decade, GfWL == NO SALE, mostly due to the fact that i can’t keep my progress in B:AA because of that pile of shite.
16/06/2011 at 13:15 Njordsk says:
shame indeed that is.
16/06/2011 at 13:15 WaveOfMutilation says:
I have sworn not to purchase another GFWL title ever again. But I may make an exception for this one. Maybe.
I also support the motion for more poems Bat-wise or otherwise.
16/06/2011 at 13:16 Zephro says:
Balls. Why can’t they all just get on board with steamworks and stop pissing around. >.<
Might get this on xbox then.
16/06/2011 at 16:59 Khemm says:
Your xbox copy will use Steamworks? HOW AWESOME.
Seriously all you “I’ll buy it for xbox now” people, do you even freaking realize you’re making yourself look downright stupid?
16/06/2011 at 17:33 Zephro says:
Well at least I can stop fretting about my relative intelligence.
Anyway, xbox Live works correctly and never fucks me about or crashes. It’s also linked in to all my xbox friends, their achievements and top scores etc. So it’s in the “xbox community space” let’s say.
My friends who play steam games are connected in with me via…. SteamWorks! Windows Live community features just leave me connected with xbox users. It’s a pointless, ugly and bug prone piece of crap.
16/06/2011 at 13:16 Thwap says:
Picked up Bulletstorm last night…spent 30+ minutes wading through GFWL nonsense to get it working.
The highlight was when it insisted on downloading updates, then instructed me to “Save my progress and exit”. Except that there was firstly, no progress to save, and secondly….no means to exit. At all. I was only able to try and go back into the game proper…at which point, it screamed that I had a pending update and I had to…yes, you guessed it…”Save my progress and exit”.
So. The update process *requires* me to kill your app from Task Manager….nice.
That said, Bulletstorm (once I could actually get into it) was excellent.
16/06/2011 at 14:19 Rinox says:
That’s on the par for bad console ports. An older version of Splinter Cell (can’t remember which) required of you to manually kill the application every time you wanted to stop playing, since there was no way to exit the menu – other than turning off your ‘console’. So insulting.
16/06/2011 at 13:16 Teddy Leach says:
I’ve only ever had two problems with GFWL, so I really don’t care.
16/06/2011 at 13:17 CaLe says:
Good, I like getting achievements and have never once had a single problem using GFWL and really don’t get the complaints at all.
16/06/2011 at 13:19 skinlo says:
Its a bloaty piece of crap. No matter what computer I’ve tried it on, whenever it tried to update itself it simply crashes. Therefore, I have to spend hours trying to find ways around it.
16/06/2011 at 13:17 Glass Rebel says:
When will publishers learn?
16/06/2011 at 13:20 Vexing Vision says:
Sadly, Batman: AA was the ONLY game I ever had issues with GFWL. I played DoW2 (when it came out), Street Fighter 4 and Bulletstorm and had very few issues apart from general nuisance.
However, I lost my Batman-profiles three fucking times. Including a rather lovely 98% one where I was just missing a four gold stars in the challenge maps. And the issue was never fixed…
I’m going to get this game anyway, but this time I’ll spam their forums with rage and hatred the first time my savegame corrupts.
16/06/2011 at 13:32 Glass Rebel says:
I didn’t even buy it, I just played it on a friends PS3 after I heard how it corrupted saveson the PC version. I’ll do the same with AC.
16/06/2011 at 13:41 Khemm says:
How did you lose your saves? GFWL requires that you distinctly play using offline profile or online profile. Finishing a large part of the game while online and later logging in to offline profile may overwrite your saves.
If you keep that in mind, you should be fine.
16/06/2011 at 13:54 Vexing Vision says:
I tried both, really.
Everytime I managed to get Goldstar in the Hard Prison Brawl Challenge (the one with the electrified floor), and I save after that, my profile gets corrupted and I need to start over.
After the second time this happened, I kept manual copies of the profile folder.
It’s still really, really painful.
This happened with Windows XP AND a fresh installed Windows 7, by the way – and according to the feedback, I’m not a unique case.
16/06/2011 at 14:11 subedii says:
Yeah savegame corruption was a very well known problem with B:AA. However I’m not sure whether that was actually a GFWL issue or one with the game itself.
Then again, I also repeatedly had the same issues with Gears of War, so who knows.
16/06/2011 at 14:57 and.nor.so says:
@ Vexing Visions
Same thing was happening to me but I assume it was because I was using trainers to extend the time limit.
16/06/2011 at 15:17 Vexing Vision says:
No trainers, no virus, no trojan, no internet explorer, no defrag, no harddrive compression tool here.
Ah well. I really, really hope this won’t be the case for AC, as AA was still a fantastic game.
16/06/2011 at 13:21 pyjamarama says:
Will GFWL get cloud saves like XBox. We have a lot of space in the free 25GB Skydrive, they could use it for storing saves.
16/06/2011 at 13:24 Spooty says:
Posts like this are why I subscribe.
16/06/2011 at 13:25 MuscleHorse says:
GFWL stopped me from playing Fallout 3 for around a month and then gave me issues with moving a GTAIV save from computer to computer. Things seem to have been ironed outsomewhat lately though – would much prefer Steamworks as that actually, you know, works.
16/06/2011 at 13:33 jon_hill987 says:
The good thing about Fallout 3 was that if you ran the executable directly rather than via the launcher GfWL never loaded and saves were not linked to a profile and simply stayed in the program folder.
16/06/2011 at 13:25 Sp4rkR4t says:
Guess this has moved to the PS3 purchase list for me then.
16/06/2011 at 13:26 Git says:
Ugh. Guess this is one I’ll be getting for my station of the third play. I much prefer ‘insert disc, play game’ to ‘insert disc, battle against shitty GFWL, maybe get to play game later if I’m lucky’.
16/06/2011 at 13:30 arienette says:
I lost my Arkham Asylum save to GFWL so many times it’s testament to the game that I actually saw it through. But I vowed that was my last time with GFWL for as good as this looks, I’m going to have to give it a miss.
16/06/2011 at 13:31 Mark says:
Whatever, I’m okay with this. I accept others have had issues with GFWL, but it hasn’t done me any harm.
16/06/2011 at 13:38 8-bit says:
thats exactly what people in movies say right before the killer drops a bus on their head.
16/06/2011 at 14:14 subedii says:
Was it a comedy?
16/06/2011 at 14:25 8-bit says:
what, final destination? I think so.
16/06/2011 at 14:32 Stephen Roberts says:
The killer was actually a McGuffin, every death was staged and afterward the protagonist is surprised that all his dead friends are still alive and have helped him win the championship. And the dead girl. In a fit of pique he kills everyone.
On topic: How annoying. Oh well, I shall endure. I think I have been lucky with all other GFWL games because the annoyance for me only seems to extend to awful sign in / update practices. And everything multiplayer.
16/06/2011 at 14:49 8-bit says:
@Stephen Roberts
Isn’t that the plot of 1997 teen comedy film ‘the game’.
16/06/2011 at 13:32 helmehytte says:
Great! Am I the only one who like this? Now I can play it on PC and get my Microsoft Achievements! Just how I like it.
16/06/2011 at 13:38 Wilfred says:
Ohh God not again. Well no sale for you Rocksteady, I’ve sworn off GFWL after my last taste of that crap.
You notice how the only people happy about this news are people who like Gamerscore and achievements? Does Gamerscore increase life expectancy or likeliness of attracting women?
16/06/2011 at 13:38 Khemm says:
Some of you primadonnas really need to explain yourselves.
First things first – I agree that GFWL is a painfully underdeveloped service which lacks features it should have, the patching process requiring that you log in, quit, apply patch, log in again is bizzare and the interface is an ugly mess requiring too many clicks to get anywhere. I so want this service to finally become better so that Steam fanatics may finally lose any reason to complain apart from fanboyish “Valve 4evar!!!”.
BUT:
Is that such a deal-breaker? I don’t think so. For primarily single player games, I vastly prefer GFWL to Steamworks. At least none restricts me from installing the game unless spyware client allows me to and downloading 1GB “update” of data missing from the disc is not necessary.
“Internet activation” with GFWL means just that – activation, as opposed to Steam’s “be online for three hours on a good connection while we update the client, then decrypt files for eternity, then not allow you to choose installation path, then force you to download 500MBs before allowing you to play”.
In some aspects, GFWL is stuck in the past, but Steam client is painfully stuck in the past. GFWL, Impulse and soon Origin honestly sound like better developed alternatives.
Which is why I don’t care AT ALL the game will use GFWL. Fine by me.
16/06/2011 at 13:43 Bhazor says:
Yet when it’s Steamworks no one mentions it.
Hypocrisy is a funny thing isn’t it?
16/06/2011 at 13:49 AndrewC says:
Steam works better than GFWL. It is less intrusive, more intuitive, and doesn’t fall down as often. Your hyperbole is as foolish as the rabid GFWL haters hyperbole.
Please carry on.
16/06/2011 at 13:58 kororas says:
Steam takes away some of the finer control on your games, but at least it dosent do that and then fuck it all up /looks angrily at GFWL
16/06/2011 at 14:02 Ninja Dodo says:
Updating frequently doesn’t work, leaving you unable to log on unless you quit the game and download the latest standalone installer. If you’re not logged in you can’t save at all, and old saves cannot be transferred to another install.
Also you cannot change the location on your LIVE account to a different country which is great if you ever move to somewhere else and want to install some DLC.
On the plus-side:
I got nothing.
16/06/2011 at 14:03 Khemm says:
@AndrewC
I’ve had more problems with Steam failing to update my games, downloading stuff sloooooowly, “servers not available” and other such nonsense than GFWL. I’m serious.
As for intrusiveness, I find Valve’s solution much worse – being forced to update and run a third party storefront in the background for games to even launch is not my idea of “digital distribution or a service tied to retail business” done right.
Impulse, GFWL Marketplace, Origin, GoG don’t do this.
16/06/2011 at 14:05 subedii says:
*Sigh*
It’s not Hypocrisy when GFWL is a genuinely bad system.
I mean in personal experience, that argument of GFWL being better as a system is just plain wrong. GFWL has native in-built install limits, which often they neglected to tell the devs themselves about (as in Dawn of War 2).
For that matter, GFWL can also happily disable your games for you. Don’t believe me? Feel free to install a copy of Gears of War with your ethernet connection unplugged. Tell me what happens. Or don’t, I already know.
As for the update process, when I was connected, GFWL didn’t ASK me whether I wanted to update GFWL, it didn’t ASK me if I wanted to update Gears. It just flat out told me “we won’t run it until you do.” Now then, you complained so vehemently about Steams patch process, do me a favour: Give me an honest appraisal and rundown of GFWL’s patch procedures. You may include the certification process if you wish. If you are not familiar with the consequences of the certification process I will happily fill you in on them.
For me it’s not even a competition. GOG.com is the preference. Followed by Steamworks, Gamersgate, Impulse, and THEN GFWL.
16/06/2011 at 15:03 Raiyan 1.0 says:
I once found GFWL downloading rar files, unpacking them, and keeping both the compressed and decompressed files in the install folder.
O_O
16/06/2011 at 16:45 Zephro says:
Not to mention that Steamworks gives me cross title chat with all my PC gaming friends who are actually on Steam not on my live profile, that just helpfully tells me my console friends are all playing Forza.
PS You can switch off updates to your games on Steam…. or did I misread that complaint?
Steam offline mode always seems to work properly when my net connection went down, never had any problems.
16/06/2011 at 16:51 Turfster says:
@Khemm
“As for intrusiveness, I find Valve’s solution much worse – being forced to update and run a third party storefront in the background for games to even launch is not my idea of “digital distribution or a service tied to retail business” done right. Impulse, GFWL Marketplace, Origin, GoG don’t do this.”
No, GFWL is not intrusive at all and doesn’t require you to run a third party storefront in the background… EXCEPT of course it installs a windows live ID service that is ALWAYS ON EVERY SECOND YOUR COMPUTER IS ON AND IS ALWAYS RUNNING IN THE BACKGROUND that you can’t disable if you want to run your games.
What was that? You didn’t know?
16/06/2011 at 17:43 Kaira- says:
@Turfster
I didn’t know Windows Live Id is actually a storefront.
As for myself and the game, I’ve never had much problems with GFWL, but I’d still prefer to have no external crap in my games.
16/06/2011 at 18:14 Kaira- says:
Also: how come I can’t edit my posts anymore? The edit-button has just disappeared.
16/06/2011 at 19:55 Khemm says:
@Turfster
BREAKING NEWS: Windows Live ID isn’t a “third party storefront”?
What? You didn’t know?…
16/06/2011 at 19:57 Turfster says:
@Kaira
No, windows Live ID isn’t a storefront (which you can run/turn off when you want and which you actually chose to install and use), it’s a system service, which is much worse.
Anyway, I’m not going to bother replying anymore.
For the GFWL evangelists that have never had the piece of shit do anything to them, more power to you, may your gamerscore e-peen be long and shiny.
I’ll just be in the other part of the room with my 3/5 GFWL games that simply will not work correctly because of it with the other people that hate its guts.
16/06/2011 at 13:39 Robert says:
I got Asylum on the xxxbox, I don’t see reason to change that.
16/06/2011 at 14:07 Khemm says:
Live on PC is EVIL, the same service on xbox is OK. Also, paying more for an inferior version.
Makes sense.
16/06/2011 at 14:09 subedii says:
Live on PC would be OK if MS invested in making it a good system like they have on Xbox.
They have not done so. And it lacks even basic features that are present on XBL, features that actually WOULD give it an edge, like party chat.
16/06/2011 at 13:40 fr3d says:
Can’t say I’m a big fan of GFWL but Batman doesn’t have multi player so GFWL isn’t really an issue in this case, unless they use some kind of extra evil DRM on top of that.
16/06/2011 at 13:42 MajorTomG says:
Being the kind of guy who tinkers with things on his PC until it’s just the way he wants it, I often reinstall windows, making sure I keep backups of everything that matters. Batman AA was the only game I had problems with and it was all down to GFWL. I never finished the game because I gave up trying. If I’d pirated it, I wouldn’t have had that issue. I own an XBOX and a PC but my Gamerscore means nothing to me.
I might just buy it on console I guess.
16/06/2011 at 13:44 Wilfred says:
Predicatbly the most viewed and replied to thing on the Batman forums is a request thread to not include GFWL lol. Rage anyone?
http://community.batmanarkhamcity.com/forums/showthread.php/413-Will-Batman-Arkham-City-for-PC-use-Games-for-Windows-LIVE/page18
16/06/2011 at 13:48 subedii says:
Actually it’s the opposite.
Members of the GFWL forums launched a forum raid on the BAA forums to campaign to have GFWL included.
I am not joking, that is literally what they do.
16/06/2011 at 13:57 Khemm says:
@subedii
Sounds like Steam fanboys raiding 2K forums and asking the publisher to support Steamworks after it’s been announced Bioshock 2 will use GFWL.
But when GFWL supporters ask for game X to use LIVE, it’s suddenly a bad thing?
16/06/2011 at 14:04 jon_hill987 says:
The main difference is Steamworks is tried tested and works. GfWL just tried and failed.
Yes, having neither would be best, but if they insist on adding community features I know which one I would choose.
16/06/2011 at 14:07 subedii says:
@ Khemm: No, forum raid wars are ridiculous and STUPID IDIOTIC behaviour, regardless of who does it, and I hate the people who do it. Even 4chan has rules against doing it now.
When they launched an official campaign on the GFWL forums to do this and they all bandwagoned on, I had no sympathy for them. And neither should you.
16/06/2011 at 14:07 Wilfred says:
Holy shit your right lol!
http://community.batmanarkhamcity.com/forums/showthread.php/413-Will-Batman-Arkham-City-for-PC-use-Games-for-Windows-LIVE?p=12772#post12772
Unbelievable! GFWL fanboys are attempting to infiltrate games forums and crowbar in GFWL as a community request. What a bunch of tossers. I bet some of them are commenting on this story on RPS as we speak.
16/06/2011 at 13:50 kororas says:
This is now a non-zero day purchase for me.
A shame.
16/06/2011 at 13:56 Cirdain says:
FFUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCC-
16/06/2011 at 13:59 vanilla bear says:
Games for Windows Live and Batman
Popup logins- I’m not a fan.
Disappearing logins forcing restarts -
I also dislike the cover art.
16/06/2011 at 13:59 Bweahns says:
Nice incentive to pirate the game instead of buying it.
16/06/2011 at 14:03 kororas says:
I dont condone this. Its a good game, just let down with a poor publishing decision. Dont penalise the developers for it.
The best thing you can do without being a pirate is take away their zero day sales figures. And how ever much longer you can wait. Usually until the price drops for me.
16/06/2011 at 14:16 arienette says:
While this news means I won’t be buying it, you lose the moral high ground if pirating it is your immediate and only response.
16/06/2011 at 14:21 Avenger says:
If only there was a way to kick the publishers in the head for making so bad decisions, without penalizing the developers.
In this case, there is none, unless some of them leave shop and go indy.
So, yes. I will have to pirate the hell out of this one,
until they decide to patch GAWFUL out.
16/06/2011 at 14:23 subedii says:
Pirating the product does nothing of the sort.
You want to penalise them, don’t buy the product, and don’t PLAY it. Pirating it just shows that you’re a hypocrite who just wasn’t willing to pay for a game they still wanted to use.
If you’re that dead set on it, then just buy something else, and send the devs and e-mail telling them why you spent your money elsewhere than on this title.
17/06/2011 at 07:43 Bweahns says:
I agree that pirating the game isn’t the answer but the fact is I want to play the game but I don’t want to receive a worse gaming experience because I paid for it. Invasive, buggy, bloaty and annoying DRM for a single player game really gets my nerd rage foaming.
Bioshock 2 saw me fucking about for over 2 hours before I could play the game by which point I was so frustrated I turned it off in disgust.
I’m planning to get myself a house in the middle of nowhere in the next couple of years and buying a lot of single player games simply isn’t going to be an option as I won’t be able to play them without an internet connection hence I will have to pirate them.
17/06/2011 at 09:11 Avenger says:
Buy it, then crack it.
It works for me… to some degree at least.
I really wish the publishers did not have their way
16/06/2011 at 14:02 jon_hill987 says:
The hero of Gotham is a bat,
Some say he’s dressed like a prat,
but not to his face,
if they want to embrace,
A life where they can still wear a hat.
Last line needs work, any ideas?
16/06/2011 at 14:07 Linfosoma says:
Great, GFWL = regional restriction in my area. And no, there is no such thing as a retail PC game available in south America, Im screwed. >=(
16/06/2011 at 14:21 subedii says:
Region restrictions definitely need to go. I won’t mince my words, they’re completely daft and there’s no reason for them.
16/06/2011 at 14:17 Avenger says:
CRAP… I really wanted to play this.
NOPE LoL…
16/06/2011 at 14:18 Unaco says:
GFWL wasn’t too bad in Batman: Arkham Asylum… I’ve had more trouble with Steam and updating, or with other ‘services’ like Ubi. Sure it was infuriating for the extra 15-20 minutes it added to install/setup, and it took me a while to remember the Username/Password I’d obviously used some time prior. But once that was done, I had no problems with it.
Besides, if Arkham City is as good as Arkham Asylum, some GFWL inconvenience (plus £30) will be a small price to pay in my book.
16/06/2011 at 14:22 Nameless1 says:
Nice. Say goodbye to my money.
16/06/2011 at 14:23 Adam Blue says:
I must live in a magical world where I can play a game with GFWL…just install, sign in, and play.
I really wish I could share this wonderful feeling with everyone, but I sense a ginormous wall of negativity that I cannot penetrate.
Because of this news, I will now be buying this on PC.
16/06/2011 at 14:38 Luk 333 says:
How about this? A world where Steamworks and GFWL would be both present in the same game, but completely optional. In this way you could choose to use none, one of them or even both.
Or how about something simpler? Make GFWL available in the rest of the world. I’m a Romanian and I want to buy Bulletstorm, Dirt 3, Dead Rising 2 and Lost Planet 2 on Steam. I don’t even care if the multiplayer won’t work; just let me buy it.
17/06/2011 at 06:41 whydidyoumakemeregister says:
You seriously don’t want to play Dirt 3, unless you were born without a mother and need to hear people tell you how amazing you are every 90 seconds.
16/06/2011 at 14:43 fitzroy_doll says:
If you must use Gawful, the trick is to install it and get it all running first, before installing the game in question: http://www.gamesforwindows.com/en-GB/download/ Download and run the client, get your sign-in set up, add exceptions to the firewall and run windows update. Only then install the game. It will make the whole experience much smoother. I found that the version of Gawful included in Bioshock 2 doesn’t work, even with updates, and had to uninstall/reinstall from the downloaded client.
Another tip: I like to keep all my gaming content on a dedicated drive rather than in my user directory and program files. Gawful supports this, but you have to set it outside the game, before downloading anything. Files such as dlc assets cannot be moved – only redownloaded. If you want to do this, run Gawful and change the settings before running the game.
Edit: and the biggest tip of all: do not switch between an offline account and an online account. This seems to be the main way people lose saves. Play the whole game offline, or online, but don’t try to do both.
16/06/2011 at 14:51 FieldOfTheBattle says:
I can live with GFWL if it works without online activation like in Arkham Asylum, unlike on Steam I actually own that game, no ifs no buts no DRM servers no terms of use that say I can be denied playing a game I paid for at any time for any reason.
17/06/2011 at 04:41 Mistabashi says:
Except Arkham Asylum did have online activation, with a 4-machine install Limit. You no more ‘own’ that game than a game purchased on Steam.
Just because you can’t see it going on doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Running the game is dependant on both the GFWL and SecuRom services, complete with all the terms & conditions you agreed to but didn’t actually read when you installed the game.
Steam at least is fairly open about what it’s doing and when it’s running.
16/06/2011 at 14:56 Rebel44 says:
OK – no money from me…..
16/06/2011 at 15:27 Unaco says:
OK – no game for you…
16/06/2011 at 14:59 pischto says:
Well then I’ll have to pirate it.
I don’t want to be forced to pay 50€ for a French Version due to GFWL-Shop.. If it’s on Steam I’ll buy it.
16/06/2011 at 15:05 Velvetmeds says:
No problem for me.
16/06/2011 at 15:08 Tasloi says:
Shame, I was really looking forward to finally play one of these Batman games. Oh well. Plenty of other games around.
16/06/2011 at 15:12 Gabbo says:
I haven’t had any real issues with GFWL (which I thought was being referred to as just XBL across the board now?), but this is a bit of a let down. Hopefully no install limits on top of this.
16/06/2011 at 15:13 wastelanderone says:
GFWL aside, that is some pretty awful boxart.
16/06/2011 at 16:28 Stochastic says:
It doesn’t help that Batman looks mildly constipated Also, the monochrome just looks really bad in this image IMO. I wish they had gone something a la the “Batman Begins” cover art.
16/06/2011 at 18:09 shoptroll says:
Greyscale with pink highlights is the new orange n’ blue.
16/06/2011 at 15:15 wodin says:
The first game was excellent..and GFWL never really bothered me…so being a Batman fan it’s a must for me.
16/06/2011 at 15:18 jezcentral says:
Ugh. I’m not sold on GFWL at all.
I had no problems with Batman:AA, as I wasn’t connected to the internet at the time, and it just stored the savegames on my hard-drive, as per normal, and never tried to connect to the internet.
However, when I tried Bioshock 2 (when I was connected), it lost all my save-games, and I just gave up as I wasn’t about to play through the first few, very boring, hours again. I still haven’t gone back to it.
I would REALLY like to hear from the developers why they chose this route, and not, say, Steamworks.
16/06/2011 at 15:23 FuKuy says:
OH NOOooooooo!!!! :(
I definitely would prefer using STEAMworks rather than ‘consolitis’ GFWL…
16/06/2011 at 15:58 thegooseking says:
GfWL is intrusive when you first start up the game, and then it goes away and leaves you alone (unless you press the Home key). I think I can live with it.
I hate Live on its own merits, with its limited territory list, its Authentication on Server-Side (ASS) DRM, its scrappy brokenness, its insultingly half-baked implementation and its general ugliness, but I can’t see that it’ll ruin the game for me.
16/06/2011 at 15:58 Squishpoke says:
GFWL = No Sale.
16/06/2011 at 16:43 Icarus says:
If this were any other game I’d be right there with you, but on the basis of how genuinely excellent Arkham Asylum was, I’ll actually be picking this one up. Not necessarily on day one, or even in the first month, but I’ll be grabbing it.
16/06/2011 at 16:01 werix says:
Now I don’t think I’ll be getting the game. I beat Arkham Asylum, loved the hell out of it. But then I reformatted my PC for an OS upgrade, and yeah, lost all my saves due to GFWL. Which pissed me off, because that’s one of the few games I hunted around for everything. All the Riddler puzzles were great and didnt feel like fluff. That was a few reformats ago, so there is no hope of getting those saves back. I havent Played Arkham Asylum since then out of pure spite, and I won’t deal with that again.
16/06/2011 at 17:01 Khemm says:
You lost your saves because you didn’t back them up, not “because of GFWL”.
16/06/2011 at 18:12 Ryz says:
Bull.
Backed up my saves. Backed up my profile. Reformatted my PC, installed Windows 7, reinstalled Batman: AA, moved over profile/saves.
Saves corrupted. Goodbye, 90% completion!
Yeah, I can’t imagine why people don’t like GfWL?
16/06/2011 at 16:05 Freud says:
That poem is the best thing I have read since I read that other awesome thing.
16/06/2011 at 16:28 AlexV says:
Shame, really, I was planning on buying that, it looked quite good. Not good enough to put up with GFWL, obviously, but still quite good.
16/06/2011 at 16:39 enderwiggum says:
This is the new approach to game development, don’t you know. You make your game, burn the CDs, put it in a box, and then fill said box with poo. That way, the customer knows that the game is the “good part”.
Rock Steady Studios, I’m sure you’ve made a great game. Too bad it is covered in shit.
16/06/2011 at 16:51 Daiv says:
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16/06/2011 at 17:10 Khemm says:
Seriously, after reading all these comments here it’s obvious that most negative responses come from people simply jumping on the “GFWL suxorz” bandwagon just because it’s trendy or because of their blind corporate loyalty: “it doesn’t have Gabe’s approval! WTF, how dare anyone not kiss Valve’s feet, RAAAAGE!”.
There are a few posts from people who actually used the service and raise valid criticisms, but even they openly admit it’s not something that bothers them as much as to boycott games utilizing GFWL.
16/06/2011 at 17:28 Zephro says:
I do enjoy how Orwellian fanboy arguments get.
Especially when they reach the “anyone who doesn’t agree with my is a fanboy for and their opinion isn’t valid. ” It must take some serious double think right?
16/06/2011 at 18:08 Ridnarhtim says:
Well, considering that after buying Bioshock 2 on Steam, downloading and installing it, it took 3 days before I was able to play it simply because of GFWL, I am really not a big fan.
16/06/2011 at 18:20 Thirdstar says:
Lost my AA saves twice, another poster here lost them thrice. Almost everyone who complains has pointed out that GFWL likes to constantly patch/restart/repatch and so on. How in any way is this ‘people admitting it doesn’t bother them’ in any way? It seems you’re the only on raging all over the comments, smacking down people who air issues with the system with being blind haters when many of the posters are anything but.
16/06/2011 at 18:21 Ryz says:
I own ~5 or so GfWL games, including Batman: AA. I will never buy a GfWL game for more than $5 after my experiences with it.
Every single one of them was genuinely brought down by GfWL. It’s just a horrible, buggy, half-assed experience with no support from Microsoft whatsoever. The fact developers keep using it in the face MS simply not giving a toss about it or PC gamers is insane.
The only positive, supportive comments come from Xbox gamers that want to boost their achievement score. As a PC gamer with no consoles and no interest in buying a console, it’s bloody insulting.
16/06/2011 at 19:30 subedii says:
What Ryz said.
I’m not one to “boycott” games (stupid idea in itself) over GFWL, but I cannot think of a single game of mine that I own that has actually been qualitatively IMPROVED by the addition of GFWL. And quite a few that have been negatively impacted because of it (one of them, Dawn of War 2, was SO badly impacted that even the developers dropped it completely partway through the series. Pretty much unprecedented).
OK, you’re quick enough to denounce everyone here as mindless “haters”, I’ll do you a favour. When GFWL first started off five years ago, I was generally supportive of it and used to visit the GFWL forums. I thought it was a good idea. However, Microsoft have simply not invested in it to bring it up to its required standards. Since you hate THESE forums so much, I’ll happily find and link you to one or two posts on the official GFW forums where these issues are discussed. I think you’ll agree these people are NOT “Steam Fanboys” as you seem so insistent on believing (and the one raising them is clearly a 360 gamer to boot).
http://forums.xbox.com/gfw/general/f/259/t/1652.aspx
So go ahead, explain clearly where “blind corporate loyalty” to Valve plays into those issues.
17/06/2011 at 01:24 Thants says:
Khemm: As far as I can tell, you’re the only one mentioning Valve. People are allowed to hate GFWL on its own merits.
16/06/2011 at 18:04 Catastrophe says:
I don’t like GFWL because its pointless and its annoying bloatware.
I also got asked to log in to my singleplayer Batman AA, only to “log in” begin the game, get quite the way through, go to Save the game to go get my dinner only to be told I wasn’t logged in and therefore couldn’t Save, even to a temporary Local directory. I felt like I was back in the early 90′s playing on a memory-less machine and had accidentally left my memory tape at my friends house ¬_¬
I lost all my progress and had to contact Microsoft support as my GFWL account was fubar. It seemed like it let me log in, without actually logging in.
But I could log in on MS Live website… gah.
16/06/2011 at 18:20 Khemm says:
“I don’t like GFWL because its pointless and its annoying bloatware.”
Just like STEAM! For every GFWL criticizing guy, there’s another one who could say the same thing about Valve’s client.
16/06/2011 at 18:23 Thirdstar says:
And here you are yet again. Poster airs grievances with GFWL and behold, you’re there to point out how horrible Steam is. Apparently we’re not allowed to dislike GFWL.
16/06/2011 at 18:43 subedii says:
I think you’ll find the correlation decidedly not 1:1, much as you may wish it so.
If it were, then frankly, GFWL would NOT currently be struggling to compete with Steam. I mean think about it, this is a system ostensibly backed up by the full might of Microsoft, right? By all rights, they should have blown the competition out of the water a long time ago.
I’ll leave you to ruminate on precisely why that has not happened. Here’s a hint to get you started: “Haters gonna hate” isn’t the correct answer.
16/06/2011 at 19:53 Khemm says:
@Thirdstar
Maybe you haven’t noticed, but it’s not ME talking about Steam here, many posts here consist of lines like “I wish it was Steamworks” “No Steamworks=no sale”. I have my own set of complaints in regard to GFWL, but I honestly don’t understand what makes it SO UNBEARABLY BAD that people bitch about it like crazy. Ok, MS dropped the ball, the service is underdeveloped, UI sucks, but it’s not like you even have to use GFWL in a single player game like Batman. Stop with the hyperbole train, people.
There are examples of games which couldn’t be launched/activated because of Steam implementaion, or Steam being busy, or Steam downloading 9GB patches for ArmA2 or Witcher 2, or downloading entire games instead of smoothly installing from DVD, games suffering from lags like Magica or Brink but noo…. Steam is PERFECT, it WORKS, it’s AMAZING, NO PROBLEMS, but when it comes to GFWL, even the tinest bug suddenly is a big deal, THE SERVICE IS BROKEN, LAAAAG, yadda yadda. See my point? I want people here to actually treat both services without bias.
16/06/2011 at 20:05 subedii says:
I do treat both services without bias.
GOG.com is still the best.
Following that, if the game has to make use of something, is Steamworks.
GFWL comes in at 4th or 5th on my list, and still has a lot of stupid issues five years on. Many of which have already been elucidated on.
Because as much as you cry about it, it’s not about some base bias or hatred or Microsoft or GFWL. I was one of its initial supporters. I thought it was a good idea back then when things kicked off. This was back in the days of Gears of War, and even whilst they had subscription charges, I was still willing to give them some slack. Halo 2 was Vista only, and I was willing to give them some slack on that as well.
Five years on, that slack has run out, and I will happily call it a bad service without fear of being unfair to it. And it is inferior to most, if not all of its competitors. As it stands, I would currently place EA as in a better position to compete directly with Steam than GFWL, and that’s just sad.
Still, if you’re adamant on the bias angle, feel free to look up that post on the GFW forums I linked above.
16/06/2011 at 21:33 Thirdstar says:
@Khemm
The guy you’re replying to? Doesn’t mention steam. In fact the vast majority of ‘complainers’ here don’t mention steam. Number of posters mentioning steam? less than half a dozen, oh and you. Please tell me the irony is not lost on you as you seem to pretty hung up on people being unbiased. Also do tell about this magic method of playing AA that doesn’t use GFWL, i’m truly curious.
16/06/2011 at 18:07 Ridnarhtim says:
Well then, I’ll be getting this for the PS3, just like AA.
16/06/2011 at 18:55 Davee says:
Well, my hope for this game certainly dropped by a bit now. Might still get it later (or though other means to get rid of GFWL?).
16/06/2011 at 19:20 Antares says:
Like many others above, this has completely turned me off this game, which would otherwise be a day-1 purchase.
GFWL is the most bloated, obtrusive piece of DRM I have ever had the displeasure of installing on my computer and I’ll have no more of it.
16/06/2011 at 19:23 Ravenger says:
To be honest, I’ve not had many problems with GFWL, and it’s not a deal breaker for me – at least for a single player game. However its practice of locking your saves to your current OS install rather than your gamertag is insane. Like others on here I lost my nearly complete Batman AA save when I upgraded to Windows 7. I hope Rocksteady use a different save system this time – you don’t HAVE to use the GFWL encrypted save system.
16/06/2011 at 20:24 Sic says:
… and people wonder why PC gaming sales are dwindling.
Ridiculous, and absolutely no money from me. I might get it when I get my act together and buy a PS3. It will never be installed on this computer, though. I simply won’t deal with garbage software, I don’t just use this PC for games, it’s also a workstation. Rubbish like this will never be installed.
16/06/2011 at 20:25 Rath says:
In some parallel universe, GFWL is actually good and Batman games from Rocksteady are awful. And if the DCAU has taught me anything, it’s that our good Batman is a genius enough to build a device to transport himself to said parallel universe and correct this. Could be a hilarious meta-game for a third act.
16/06/2011 at 20:30 kud13 says:
well, I guess i’ll wait for the gawful-free GOTY on Steam like I did with AA, then.
thouhg i’ve had no real major issues with gwfl (make offline profile. never go online while playing), i find it to be annoying and have gone through great lengths to disable the Windows Live Id service from constantly hogging up my system’s finite resources.
at the very least, I’m able to shut Steam down easily when I need to.
16/06/2011 at 22:16 SquareWheel says:
Not buying it. GFWL has screwed me too many times in the past.
17/06/2011 at 04:33 Grey_Ghost says:
I detest GFWL. I’m dealing with it now while playing Arkham Asylum. I used to be begrudgingly okay with it in the past, but now the damn thing has two services constantly running in the background!
At least I can log out of Steam when I am not doing anything with it, but not GFWL, no sirree, it’s got to be running ALL THE TIME NO MATTER WHAT! BAH!