The Mittani’s Crime & Punishment In Eve Online

By Alec Meer on March 29th, 2012 at 10:30 am.

There he is on the right. Presumably not drunk.

The Mittani, Eve Online’s most famous and infamous player, has learned the hard way that the internet is serious business after all. The controversy arose at last week’s Eve Fanfest, where in a public talk he first mocked and then urged others to hound a player who was apparently suffering from depression and suicidal thoughts. “Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his [in-game] name is [REDACTED]“, Mittani declared. Unsurprisingly, this quickly spread beyond the Fanfest.

After initially appearing to shrug off complaints as he had been drunk at the time (which he acknowledges was entirely his own fault) and didn’t have total recall of what he’d done, Mittani offered a lengthy public apology a few days later, and promised his resignation as Eve Online Council chairman. Since then, Eve devs CCP have decided his actions were a breach of the EULA and are enforcing a harsher penalty.

Mittani is to receive a 30-day ban from Eve – which is, I suspect, quite a handicap for a player as powerful as he – and removed from both the current and next Council of Interstellar Management. “As per our policies, this candidate may be eligible to run at a later date subject to candidacy review,” however.

‘The Mittani’ has always been roleplayed as a baddie, which is not the as being the bad guy in real life, as he explained: “It’s one thing to play a villain in an online roleplaying game – when I post on these forums or on twitter, I usually do so as ‘The Mittani’, and do my level best to convince everyone that I’m an unrepentant space villain, as that kind of facade provides an in-game advantage to me and my alliance. But I am not that character in real life, as anyone who has met me can attest. I went way, way, /way/ past the line on Thursday night by mocking the Mackinaw miner at a real-life event. I am not actually a sociopath or a sadist, and I certainly don’t want people to kill themselves in real life over an internet spaceship game, no matter what I may say or do within the game itself.”

[Edit - image I mistakenly attributed to the Mittani has now been removed, as it was in fact created by another player who's not part of the GoonSwarm. Apologies for any confusion or offence caused.]

The Mittani has been an Eve character with uncommon clout – indeed, few MMOs have individual players with quite that degree of authority or renown. He was also at the forefront of last year’s player rebellion against Eve’s move towards microtransactions, but CCP have been quick to observe that there are no old axes being ground over this latest controversy:

“The Council of Stellar Management is a democratically elected council that represents the players of EVE Online. Although council members may represent the players in any manner they choose, being a council member does not permit actions or playstyles that violate our policies.”

CCP also intend to clamp down on behaviour in fanfest panels, admitting in a long devblog that they’re increasingly mindful of how they and their game might be perceived by the wider world. “Time for us to grow up a bit. “Internet spaceships” are often called “serious business”, but increasingly they actually are serious business. It is moments like this that remind us that there are people beyond the characters we encounter and everyone in the EVE universe should always treat other players with a base human level of respect and decency—whether enemies or not. We would be remiss not to use this as a chance to revise our event and communication strategies.”

As for the player at which The Mittani’s ill-judged outburst was directed, apparently he’s fine, still mining away, and has had a personal apology from Gianturco as well as all this public hoo-hah.

Update: The Mittani records a message for the GoonSwarm, admitting that he did something “really, really dumb” but claiming that while “CCP has thrown me under a bus” it shouldn’t really affect things for the notorious alliance. He is, though, “pissed off” about being “nailed to a cross”, which he feels is unfair because he “owned my mistake.” He has a theory that other factors (i.e. rival Alliances or fears of CCP coming off badly while trying to promote DUST 514) influenced CCP’s decision to punish him, and is planning a huge ‘free Mittani’ invasion and destruction of the Jita trade hub on his unbanning day, CCP’s response to which will apparently prove whether they’re “the old CCP” or in the thrall of other interests. It’s all entirely appropriate, really – drama and intrigue have always been Eve’s bread and butter after all.

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239 Comments »

  1. Maldomel says:

    Sounds like The Mittani has been roleplaying a bit too much. I don’t really know Eve Online, but that sanction seems appropriate.

    • Malibu Stacey says:

      He’s stated himself he does most of his work outside the game itself via IM clients, forums etc. so I doubt it’s going to affect him in the slightest. Also are they banning his legion of alt-accounts as well as his man account otherwise it’s a pretty moot point. Actually considering he’s the ‘leader’ of GoonSwarm who will do anything he tells them regardless it’s a moot point to start with.

      Blaming alcohol for showing your true nature is the new cool in 2012 apparently.

      • jezcentral says:

        I wouldn’t say “Blaming alcohol for showing your true nature is the new cool in 2012 apparently.”

        We’ve all done something we later regret, whilst on booze, haven’t we? That doesn’t make the “sober us” the person we were whilst under the influence.

        • Llewyn says:

          Indeed we have, but the socially functional among us also recognise that we have to take responsibility for those actions, performed by us, regardless of our intoxication. They don’t just cease to be our fault because we happened to be pissed.

          • jezcentral says:

            I agree with that, but what more can he do? He has followed through with everything he said he would do *so far*. I also don’t think he seems to be using alcohol as an excuse. Yes, he mentioned it, but he didn’t say “I wouldn’t have said anyfink if it hadn’t been for that meddling alcohol”.

            Obviously, things may change in the future, but he seems to be taking responsibility.

            POST UPDATE EDIT: And now we are in the future, things have changed. He’s kicking up a fuss about being punished. Screw him and the horse he rode in on.

          • theleif says:

            Taking responsibility does not exempt you from the punishment though. He fucked up, and have to face the consequences, like anybody else. His behaviour was unacceptable, and his position and the power that goes with it makes it even worse.

          • jezcentral says:

            I really don’t think we are arguing here. He did the crime and should do the time. I’m not saying otherwise. All I said was that people aren’t necessarily who they are when they are drunk.

            POST UPDATE EDIT: And now we are in the future, things have changed. He’s kicking up a fuss about being punished. Screw him and the horse he rode in on.

          • theleif says:

            Ok.
            Well, I believe people are exactly who they are when they’re drunk. You just have better judgement and/or less courage when you are sober.

          • psyk says:

            no, never told anyone to go kill themselves and no never told a group of people to harras someone. What kind of a dick are you to think that’s a normal thing to do when drunk?

          • ZephaniahGrey says:

            What is said when the drunk has been thought out beforehand. – Flemish Proverb

          • jezcentral says:

            @Psyk That’s uncalled-for. I never said anything about it being normal behavior. I don’t know what you’re reading, but it’s not the words I’m typing.

        • JB says:

          “We’ve all done something we later regret, whilst on booze, haven’t we?”

          No, no we haven’t.

          • jezcentral says:

            All right, on drugs, then. :P

          • Grygus says:

            Then you should drink more. A life without regrets isn’t worth living.

          • deke913 says:

            I have to agree. I have been so plastered at times I could barely walk and talk but through it all I never forgot anything the next day or during my intoxication acted any way other than I would sober.( except with more leaning and stumbling) I might have felt more brave and asked a girl to dinner I normally wouldn’t have but that would be the extreme case. If you can’t maintain common decency when you party then you are a qualifiable asshat.

          • JB says:

            @Grygus When did I say I didn’t have regrets?

        • Yosharian says:

          @Jezcentral: I can’t speak for others, but personally yes.

      • Belsameth says:

        Reading his apology he clearly did *not* use alcohol as a “get out of jail free” card.
        he said he was drunk, but also clearly placed blame on himself for putting himself in that drunken state.

        • Malibu Stacey says:

          Yeah that’s totally how the GoonSwarm banner in this very post reads right?

          • kyrieee says:

            Implying he made the poster

          • Malibu Stacey says:

            while his response to CCP’s verdict could be argued to be lacking graciousness and trying too hard to excuse his actions as a result of drunkenness.

            No implication necessary, it’s confirmed in the paragraph above the poster if you bother to read Alec’s text before instinctively reaching for the reply button.

          • Delusibeta says:

            Because he totally made the banner, right [/sarcasm].

            Mate, if your guild leader gets temp-banned from any MMO. especially a “guild” as successful as Goonswarm, of course the guild members are going to protest your leader’s innocence.

            Also, claiming that The Mitt isn’t sincere after he sent all of his ISK to the victim? (https://twitter.com/#!/TheMittani/status/184412238218657792) Really? Also, while we’re here, let’s have a quote from the apology:

            ” He deserves, and he has, my heartfelt apologies – here in public as well as a private apology. There’s no excuse for what I did – while some might try to use my inebriation as a mitigating factor, I put myself in that compromised mental state, and the guilt of that is entirely mine.”

            Disclaimer: not a member of Goonswarm (hell, not even a member of Something Awful), not even a player of EVE. It’s just that what I’ve read here directly contradicts what I read elsewhere (in Kotaku of all places: http://kotaku.com/5896942/eve-online-suicide-taunter-goes-well-beyond-apologising)

          • frenz0rz says:

            I’d be willing to bet he didnt actually make that banner.

          • Unaco says:

            @Delusibeta,

            Why? Because they are sheep, blindly following their leader, despite his ‘crimes’? I would hope that some of them would maybe take a step back, see what a terrible thing it was he did and NOT toe the party line. Maybe even condemn him themselves… rather than trying to make excuses for his inexcusable conduct.

          • Delusibeta says:

            @Unaco: Probably the cult of personality going on, especially considering that the person in question has admitted to it all and has jumped on his sword re: CSM and his bank balance already.

          • TODD says:

            Speaking as a member of Goonswarm, The Mittani did not make that image. He has 7000 alliance members to do that for him. Goonswarm is well known for its propaganda, and the “trashed bee” was only one of the posters created about this little dustup:

            http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/twigand72/mittani1changed.png
            http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/twigand72/mittani2changed.jpg
            http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/twigand72/mittani3changed.png

            The general consensus within the alliance is that The Mittani is terrible at presentations, can’t hold his liquor, and did A Bad Thing, but we will gladly continue under his leadership. We were planning to blockade Jita already in celebration of his landslide election; the event was just postponed by a month.

        • pantognost says:

          He used alcohol as a tangential mitigating factor (“I take full responsibility, when I learnt what I said when I was drunk”) to promote his self image as a stand up guy who takes responsibility even for actions he did not have much control over. Clever. For his drones and some 14 year olds.

    • Styles says:

      He isn’t getting role-playing mixed up with real life …that’s a very transparent and weak excuse coming from a genuinely nasty little shit of a person, it’s quite easy to see that. His basic response of “I said sorry so nobody should be punishing me now!” shows how sorry he -really- is …he’s more concerned about his ban than anything else. His ranting at the “unfairness” of it all illustrates his amazing childishness …this guy just needs to grow the fuck up.

    • mentor07825 says:

      Perhaps the Goons shouldn’t vote someone in that represents them in their entirety? Because that is exactly what he did on that panel, a Goon being a Goon.

  2. psychoconductor says:

    I’d say the punishment was appropriate. People who play assholes online need to know that if their bullying comes into the -real- world, it will have -real- consequences. I have never played Eve Online because I think I would become depressed by playing it. I am not good at these types of games.

    • Resurgam says:

      Count yourself lucky you never played EVE. When I finally got the time to get an account I was sucked in. I had watched the game from far away, wishing I could be a part of that awesome universe.

      In reality, doing anything on EVE is a dark depressing and lonely business. Sure I made 1.5 bil ISK in my first 6 weeks. But it didn’t matter for crap since there are people out there who can just swat you like a fly.

      I shook myself and left EVE even before my 2 months were up as I could see what I had done in that time. Bugger all. I got out of that cut throat depressing universe while I still could.

      I was glad for the first time in 6 weeks.

  3. vee41 says:

    I believe this proves again that roleplaying is evil and leads to satan worshipping.

    • Sarlix says:

      And Jager consumption.

    • Malibu Stacey says:

      Or people who are arseholes will use ‘roleplaying’ to justify being arseholes because it’s the internet even though in reality they’re nothing but infectious human waste.

      • Quinnbeast says:

        “I’m only a complete cretinous bellend on the internet, honest folks.”

        It always was a piss-weak get out clause for being a thoroughly unpleasant individual.

        • jezcentral says:

          Exactly, my sadistic Sith Warrior in TOR is an exact reflection of my own views of torture, slavery and butchery.

          If you ever see me saying these are bad things in Real Life, you will know I’m being a dirty, dirty liar.

          • Kal says:

            There’s a massive difference between roleplaying an evil character in a story that’s contrived by the designers to give you that opportunity, and “roleplaying” as an asshole in “content” that is entirely player-generated.

          • Truga says:

            Roleplaying is roleplaying. Some people like playing evil dudes. What kind of game they’re playing makes no difference whatsoever.

          • codename_bloodfist says:

            @Truga: Because you said so.

          • iainl says:

            If it were player characters you were doing that to, and human players whose game you were ruining, then that would be more akin to this, however. What makes this guy such a monumental arse is that he’s claiming the “it’s only a role” game in his interactions with real people.

      • Bureaucrat says:

        “Infectious human waste” is a bit far, but I’ve met the guy (wholly non-gaming-related), and he did seem like kind of a jackass.

  4. Stuart Walton says:

    The 30 day ban is rather pointless since he probably spends more time meta-gaming. Goon Swarm losing a voice on the council is the real punishment.

    We all cross the line some, or at least stumble towards it. When you’re in the crowd you can miss the point it turns into a mob, charging over the line, maybe with you at the front. It’s not excusable and this was handled as best as it could be.

    • TODD says:

      This is correct. A running joke in Goonswarm is that its CEO never logs in. The real punishment is having wasted 10,058 votes and months of organization to give The Mittani a clear mandate to chair the CSM.

  5. Lobotomist says:

    The guy is asshat. What he did in public is probably only 1/10 of what he does on vent and corp forums.

    Problem is that CCP supports such people and such behavior. They are the core customers.Everything in the game is carefully crafted around them and their needs. The whole “monocle gate” and death of “walking in stations” happened just so ego tripping sociopaths have better tools to gank.

    Publicly forcing someone to make suicide and asking other people to force him too , isnt this criminal act ? Falling under treat and intent of body harm ?

    • grundus says:

      There was a guy not long ago, a big fucking troll, making jokes about a girl or pair of girls who died or were killed, he had a criminal case brought against him (I think he got time in prison for it, you know, this was here in the UK by the way). I think this isn’t far removed from that case, I mean making jokes about dead children is pretty fucking sick but prodding and publicly mocking a guy who is or was suicidal? Not good.

      Oh yeah, here it is: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/13/internet-troll-jailed-mocking-teenagers

      Edit: I’ve just read it and to be fair, this guy took it to the extreme and then pushed it a bit further.

      • Lobotomist says:

        Actually Mitanni case is more serious. Because – while what you posted is horrible, it was mocking people that are all ready dead. Mittani could potentially cause a person to kill him self , which is real serious criminal act.

      • wodin says:

        Trolling in the UK is started to be taken very seriously. I applaud the fact aswell. Defamation of character and unfounded accusations etc etc if they are causing harm could end up going to court and I’m all for it. I think if a forum\website doesn’t step in and put a stop to it ASAP then I feel action should be able to be taken against them and said member, in the UK you have a fair chance now to take action against someone.

        If a website\forums rules and purpose is to debate\troll etc as some are then fair enough.

        It started with Facebook and comments being posted there about people that have highlighted this problem.

        Recently a member of one forum called me out as being mentally ill and piracy (both unfounded and wrong) on more than one occasion, which is slander. In the UK I have every right and stand a good chance in taking legal action. If I was mentally ill or severely depressed and it turned out his comment put me over the edge I’d want him to be taken to court. I’d also want the forum (which never took these posts down or as far as I know warned said member) to be held responsible aswell.

        • Apples says:

          I skipped over this comment a bunch of times but now that I’ve read it I have to ask, are you actually serious about this? Surely not. Forums should be held responsible for what people say on them!? People should be sued for suggesting you’re mentally ill (wonder why they did that)? Trolling is equivalent to debate? You sound like you wrote the SOPA bill. Ooops, is that defamation? haul me to jail

          • psyk says:

            Apples I hope you die in a fire while ants slowly eat away your insides you sick pedo freak

            LOL only trolling. idiot.

            Go to a bar and start insulting and telling the customers to kill themsleves see how long you last before getting barred.

        • Ragnar says:

          I’m sorry that those things happened to you on the forums. I also think you need a thicker skin towards that crap, and I don’t think any sort of legal sanctions should be brought against either that forum or the harassing members, though I would hope that the forum mods would discourage such behaviour (at least if they want to be a forum I frequent).

          I think there’s a huge difference between someone on a forum calling you mentally ill or a pirate, and a speaker at a public event calling others to harass a person into killing themselves. With all grey areas, it’s a matter of where you draw the line, but I think we can all agree that the latter crossed that line without even slowing down.

      • PostieDoc says:

        Someone has just been jailed for 5 weeks in the UK for making sick remarks about the footballer who nearly died ( I forget his name) on Facebook. He has been kicked out of his University and will now have bleak job prospects.
        Only when strong action like this is taken will people start to take responsibility for themselves on the internet. It’s one thing to do a bit of trolling or have an argument but some people take it way too far and post some really sick stuff, feeling safe behind their desk.

        • Apples says:

          So in order to teach them a lesson we derail their lives, stop their education (one of the few things that has a good chance of actually making them change their viewpoint and grow up), give them poor job prospects for the rest of their life, and ‘make an example of them’ by unnecessarily harsh sentencing? SOUNDS REASONABLE

          • El_Emmental says:

            bah, they should have emasculated him For Great Justice !

            lynching people always feels good – I mean, we get to destroy someone’s life without any moral or ethical issues ruining the fun

            regarding the idiot who did that (the Facebook thing about that football player), on my opinion a fine and/or community service at the municipal funeral service to teach him what’s death (and if he fucks up that part by still being an ass, you can bring heavier punishment) would be enough – if we were lynching everyone guilty of a misdemeanor, the society would blow up

          • NathanH says:

            I’m not too troubled that publishing racist abuse is considered a sufficiently big deal to warrant a prison sentence.

          • Ragnar says:

            “I’m not too troubled that publishing racist abuse is considered a sufficiently big deal to warrant a prison sentence.”
            I’m always troubled when publishing X is considered a sufficiently big deal to warrant a prison sentence, because public opinion is the only thing that dictates whether X is racial abuse, or pornography, or violent video games, or satanic D&D games.

            Remember that old saying, “I may not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend your right to say it.” Publishing racial abuse is reprehensible, but I don’t want people jailed for it so long as they’re not advocating violence against others. Just like child pornographers abuse children and should be jailed, but lolicon manga authors don’t abuse anyone and should be free to draw their filthy smut.

            But I’m also a proponent of education over incarceration. I want someone to understand why they shouldn’t do something, as opposed to just be afraid to do it lest the law comes down on them

      • Daniel Rivas says:

        Of course trolling should not be met with police action, no matter how offensive they are. We are adult enough to deal with our hurt feelings on our own. We don’t need to run to daddy.

        Padraig Reidy of Index on Censorship wrote cogently on the subject recently: http://blog.indexoncensorship.org/2012/03/27/liam-stacey-sentence-a-perversion-of-notion-of-public-order-offence/

    • ikh says:

      it’s not a matter of “support”, it’s a matter of “not condemning”. i guess from some strange standpoint of moral absolutism it might be hard to catch that there isn’t anything inherently evil about having fun at other people’s expense in an mmo, through griefing if you will. it’s actually really fun for some! calling people who enjoy causing trouble for others “ego tripping sociopaths” (“eve’s core demographic”) is really not worth much more of a notion than calling it intellectually dishonest moralizing.

      the way i see it when it gets out of game is when things can be seen differently from an actual sensible viewpoint. this was a case where making a joke on someone crossed the line into the realm of real bullying. not really defendable but let’s be honest, worse things go by every single day without as much as an apology much less punitive measures on the perpetrator. if you’re going all “mittani is forcing someone to commit suicide and telling other people to force it too” you’re overinterpreting things just to get purposely even more offended, i think. there’s a pretty wide difference between just saying something and meaning it, and uncharacteristic stupidity in drunken stupor can be quite easy to read as the former kind.

      • pantognost says:

        Yeah there isn’t anything inherently evil to having fun at other people’s expense. Hmmm..let me think.
        You could have fun at the expense of another person by calling her/him names.
        You could have fun at the expense of another person by eating at a restauant and persuading a gullible person to pay
        You could have fun at the expense of another person by taking his wallet and using his money to have fun
        You could have fun at the expense of another person by shooting him because that makes you feel good.
        It is as always a matter of degrees

        Oh and I agree with you. Mittani is not forcing anyone to commit suicide. He was just being his usual self. You know the self that he justifies by lying about roleplaying a character.

        • Razrwolf says:

          Sure he’s not “forcing anyone to commit suicide” He just inciting other players to press the issue which could lead to another player committing suicide, which is horrific, it goes way beyond trolling or poking fun. He has no right to be a pussy about being ‘thrown under the bus’ after making such a hurtful and damaging remark, sure he ‘owned up’ to the it but its not just something you get to make an apology for and everything works out.

          Not only that but then he tries to spin off his punishment to his Goons as some sort of ploy from CCP, which casts an entire doubt on whether or not he was sincere in the first place.

          • pantognost says:

            We should really discuss the concept of sarcasm.
            I am on your side :)

    • kyrieee says:

      “The whole “monocle gate” and death of “walking in stations” happened just so ego tripping sociopaths have better tools to gank.”

      I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean. It’s obvious you don’t know much about EVE though. Also, ganking people in an MMO doesn’t make you a sociopath.

  6. RaveTurned says:

    In Real Life, if a similarly important and influential elected official (such as a government minister) said something similar in a public forum, they’d probably lose their job and their political career along with it.

    If this guy is as highly influential in the EVE universe as he seems, he’s probably gotten off lightly. Sure a 30 day ban might hurt but is certainly recoverable from.

    • Mr Labbes says:

      A minister also a) receives a lot of money b) damages his whole party’s chance to get (re)elected and c) is doing his actual job.
      While I think it’s correct he received some sort of punishment (be it self-inflicted or not), it’s still important to note, that it is, after all, a game. That does not excuse his actions in any way, but it’s not comparable to a minister doing the same thing.

    • Froggington says:

      It’s more accurate to say that “A politician would be forced to resign if the media made a huge thing of it”, like the gaming press have done with the Mittani thing (several days after it happened!).

      Ideally they’d all be treated the same way rather than random ones being thrown under the bus (and that applies to the CSM as well, loads of them break the EULA a lot…).

      I read SA and apparantly Mittani’s wife and dog have been getting death threats, shouldn’t something be done about that too…?

  7. mcol says:

    I watched much of the streamed events from this years fanfest, including the alliance panel during which this incident occurred.
    From ‘the wormhole guy’ on wards, the individuals presentations went dramatically downhill, with ‘The Mittani’ being at the end (if I recall).
    My impression was that whilst it was definitely cringeworthy, it was just the foolhardy who have spent way too much time in the game struggling to come to grips with their own notoriety (despite that notoriety being limited to a fairly niche online game), and being given a stage. They were clearly nervous, and with all of the above taken into consideration, mixed with the apparent hard drinking culture and apparent ‘hardcore’ culture that permeates Eve Online, they decided the best way to deal with it was to get as drunk as possible.

    Has to be said though, that the panel was supposed to have been moderated, by an attendant CCP rep, although he was merely a bystander (I hope that will be changed in future), and of course The Mittani was playing to the crowd, as generally his type do.

    I’m surprised at the punishment, although very pleased. CCP have needed to bring a reality check to this kind of behavior for a while.
    Though they have been party to encouraging a heavy drinking culture at the fanfest, which is fine if your audience are grown-up enough to deal with it.

    • RakeShark says:

      I’ve always thought of Eve Fest as the Vegas experience of the gaming world.

      Err, correction: The Reno experience.

    • iainl says:

      The guy was trying to incite murder. The appropriate punishment is to rot in jail, not have one account kept off an MMO for a month.

      • Miltrivd says:

        I can’t get my mind out of this. All that I’ve read is that the punishment was “appropiate”… What he did is considered, in most parts, a crime. The company should have banned him and cut any kind of connection with this player, as well as facilitate any information if a legal process is established.

        This goes WAY far than, “I was drunk” or “oopsie, I was a bit mean”. That guy is an asshole, period; but I’m far more worried about the general consensus that seems to be “it wasn’t that bad”.

  8. RakeShark says:

    Eve pretty much imitates the internet. It’s full of things you wouldn’t experience elsewhere, and offers interpersonal connections with people fa away. It’s also capable of disturbing displays of humanity upon humanity.

    It also has a much smaller user base than the internet, so the outliers are much more evident.

    If anything, it’s an interesting ongoing case study of what happens when you give power to everyone and allow them to use that power against each other.

  9. Alec Meer says:

    Comments which level personal abuse at anyone in this story are
    a) no better than the Mittani’s actions
    b) deleted on sight.

    • Dozer says:

      I’d like to apply for permission to level personal abuse at your avatar’s dentist.

      • Malibu Stacey says:

        Do not presume to mock Deaths Head. It will end badly (for you).

        • Dozer says:

          Oh, I’m not mocking Death’s Head. Just his incompetent unprofessional dentist.

          • Malibu Stacey says:

            He’s a robot. He doesn’t have a dentist.

          • Prime says:

            The yellow teeth are painted that way so that you fleshbags would interpret them as unpleasant to look upon. Speaks to his character, yes?

          • Sarlix says:

            I did just post a nice comment praising the Hivemind for their fair and tolerant rulership. But my reply was blocked..Oppressors!

          • Dozer says:

            Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help, help, I’m being repressed!

    • Sarlix says:

      I’m seldom serious…but (seriously) I’ve always admired the Hivemind for their tolerance and level handedness in moderating the comment section. Only on rare occasions has the Almighty Iron Fist been thrust in peoples general direction. I hope RPS is able to maintain this note worthy rulership for time foreseeable.

      • Askeladd says:

        Yes … I hate nothing more than moderators overdoing their jobs – less is more eh?
        I think its more of a build in self-restriction that most of the hivemind posses.
        That thing is sadly only produced in some models.

    • NathanH says:

      Am I still allowed to call David Cameron a smelly?

    • Kaje says:

      Sorry, but calling a guy a dick is nowhere near as bad as pretty much attempting to incite someone into suicide.

      Prioritise.

  10. Antithesissimo says:

    Hm, I would have expected Jim to write this.

    The 30-day ban is largely symbolic- most major alliance leaders rarely need to log in.

  11. sneetch says:

    30 day ban? Is that all? As people have pointed out he’ll still be able to do most of his clan business from outside the game, he’ll be back online joking about it in no time, I say fine him in-game, freeze all his assets and ban him for six months. If you bring your in-game dickery into the real world then it should have lasting repercussions in the game. The roleplaying and drunk excuses make it more pathetic.

  12. Mr Labbes says:

    All kings must die.

    • Unaco says:

      King for a day, Fool for a lifetime.

      • Dozer says:

        Is that Prince Charles’ epitaph?

        • Sarlix says:

          Dozer, you just made me laugh out loud at a considerable decibel level.

          p.s did you get the copy of Wing Commander I sent to John Radcliffe Hospital Women’s Delivery Centre?

          • Dozer says:

            hang on a second, I’ll check at reception…

            edit: if it’s here it’s not in an obvious place. I’ll look in the non-obvious places, then the main post room.

            I’m very impressed that you would send me stuff – thanks very much!

          • Sarlix says:

            Oh god, now I feel terrible. I didn’t actually send Wing Commander to you….

            I thought that your suggestion of being at Women’s Delivery Centre was mere jest. You never replied to the original comment you left, so presumed that you are not indeed the pre-birth female with Wing Commander obsessions I thought you to be. On further reflection I now realise that you were being serious and that you probably work at said delivery centre…

            Now that I know the truth I swear on ten generations of my families honour that I shall download Wing Commander Saga and put it on DVD for you and send it via our crowns finest postal service.

            For let it not be said that Sarlix does not keepth his word! I shall be exonerated!

            p.s do you work weekends?

          • Dozer says:

            Don’t worry, that’s just as well – I was masking my terror that you may have taken my request seriously. Obviously the hospital postal system will eat any suspicious-looking packages and spit the remains into the biohazard waste bin ;) I have asked – personal mail/packages cannot be delivered c/o a hospital department!

            I think I’m still working here this weekend. I might resign instead. A twelve-month contract extension beginning Monday would somewhat conflict with aspirations to emigrate in July…

          • Sarlix says:

            Ah, I see. So a package marked for ‘Dozer’ probably wouldn’t go down very well? Or only down to the biohazard waste bin..

            I feel sad that I can’t prove my sincerity, but glad that I don’t have to spend hours downloading Wing Commander Saga! However if you change your mind I am as good as my word, for that you can be certain!

            And yes, a 12 month contract could conflict with plans to emigrate mid-way through the year. Although since you will be leaving the country does it really matter? Just work until July and then bugger off! Is this incredibly immoral?

            Whatever you decide good luck with it. And I hope you will continue to grace RPS with your Dozer-ness.

            /Salute!

  13. MiniMatt says:

    In addition to going through a bit of this over in the forums, the best write up from an in game perspective I’ve come across is:
    http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/hats.html – it’s not a position I’m totally ok with but it goes some way to explain, though by no means excuse, one way this whole incident could be framed. Personally I tend to lean more toward the outrage and disgust at humanity, but Jester’s post is a well written piece for all sides of the debate.

  14. Gesadt says:

    might wanna also post recording of mittani’s address to goonswarm also:
    http://soundcloud.com/cptunderpants/state-of-the-goonion-march

    apparently hes actually butthurt for being banned.

    • BobMoron says:

      Love the conspiracy bit. So much for being humble and keeping it down.

  15. ThePeon26 says:

    Even if your durnk saying what he said is wrong I don´t care how bloody drunk u are. I think 30 days ban is to weak for that telling peopels to make a dude kill him self is something u don´t take lightly. I knew goons could be assholes just for fun in eve but when I heard Mittani say something like that I rely lost all my hopes for goons.

  16. codename_bloodfist says:

    > I am not actually a sociopath or a sadist,

    Oh yes, the story of my life. Along the same lines as our favourite excuses “I am not actually totally drunk of my mind” and “I am not actually a bad person, I just scam others to make a living”. The fact that you’re so beta, when you’re not protected by the anonymity of the internet, that your alleged “roleplaying” doesn’t transfer into the world outside of EvE only points to a weakness of character. If you’re not a sociopath or a sadist, you wouldn’t enjoy acting like one neither here nor there. I’m sorry Alec, I know you try to keep this place nice and civil, but there’s only so far PC can go.

    • ikh says:

      are you serious? what would choosing to play a chaotic evil half-elf rogue reflect of my real life persona?

      • codename_bloodfist says:

        Are you playing a chaotic evil rogue against NPCs, spawned either by the DM or whatever system you’re playing on, or real people? Are these people consenting friends, who all know each other and half expect you backstab them, or a stranger that just doesn’t want to get involved? There’s a difference between being a make believe evil, almost comically villainous spacemarine Renegade Femshep in a single player game or a bunch of arseholes, who talk their way into joining some highsec PvE girl’s corporation, pretending to be friends the entire time, just to blow up her super-duper mining spaceship and laugh as she empties her stomach over TeamSpeak. If you enjoy the later, yes, I’m serious, you’re pretty fucked up. Rest assured, there’s a game for this kind of people though.

        • ikh says:

          ok, i guess it makes sense that when the game goes from make believe to make believe with other people, it becomes morally reprehensible and reflective of sadistic sociopathism and being “fucked up” to grief other players. i’m not sure why, though, since both are still make believe :/

          keep in mind that is merely your own stance reflecting your own morality – aggressively forcing it on others to boot – and is in no way supported (or, to be fair, denied) by any study or research. do not pretend it’s universal or factual, morality is often neither.

        • kyrieee says:

          You don’t seem to get that it’s just a game.
          Stealing someone’s pixels in EVE is no different from stealing someone’s imaginary gold in a D&D campaign. The conflicts aren’t real, the people who play EVE know that, and that’s why they can all meet up and have a good time even though they do everything in their power to mess with eachother in the game.

          • Malibu Stacey says:

            So that makes it OK to take things ‘outside’ the game as this vile character has then?

          • kyrieee says:

            No, I’m saying you’re not a sociopath just because you’re mean to other people in EVE online

          • ikh says:

            “So that makes it OK to take things ‘outside’ the game as this vile character has then?”

            … who said that, and where?

          • Reapy says:

            I follow your logic and partially agree. Virtual property destruction is not quite the same as physical, the cost to replace is much lower in virtual goods. Only, what is value, if i can only obtain an object throug 6 months work in game, does that mean the onject has no value? Perhaps ccp can make that object with a wave of their hand, but that player cannot, and therefore that object holds a pretty high value for that player.

            This leads to the question of what kind of person you are if you delibertly gain a persons trust, extending a hand of friendship, only with the intent to fuck them over and destroy that thing that holds value to them. It is one thing to tk your friend for giggles every now and then, and another to destroy something they have worked on for a long time. Sort of like your friend having a 100000 piece lego sculptue amd you go and dissassemble it, the onlything lost is time, but i can tell you your friend will have a very different view of you after doing that.

            So yeah, fucking people over in a game doesnt have the weight of doing it irl, but at the same time i have to feel an adult (hard as a teen to have empathy a lot of the time imho) that enjoys “roleplaying” a person activly fucking people over has some social issues they need to work through, either lacking empathy or connection with the world in some way that allows them to operate knowing full well the hurt hes leaving in his wake.

          • kyrieee says:

            I know what your point is and most people in EVE actaully don’t rob their friends blind, but they accept that other people might. You’re building sandcastles in a place where other people are allowed to kick them down, and you know that before you start building. The rules are different from real life and so you adjust accordingly. In EVE I expect everyone to take advantage of me if I give them the chance, so it’s my own fault if anything bad happens because I should’ve seen it coming. Pretty much everyone has a price, you just have to guess what that price is and never trust anyone with too much, because no one can take anything from you unless you explicitly give them access to it. Trust is not a binary concept.

          • El_Emmental says:

            Hm… I think the most important part is your motives, what’s behind your ingame actions. It defines your actual goal, what you’re really looking for.

            There’s a clear difference between gaining someone’s trust and robbing them like a thief while being unpleasant (= roleplaying as a vilain) or even sabotaging an entire alliance, and doing that to only to cause distress, anger and psychological pain to the real-life player.

            car TF2 analogy :
            - playing as a Spy to steal an uber, stab engineer and sabotage its building, then using the Taunt animations and voice commands to make your enemy mad
            - camping the spawn gates with Stickies, healing/ubering an enemy Spy on purpose, building Teleporter traps, spamming insults on mic/in messages

            It sounds like Mittani is hiding behind “roleplay” but he’s in fact playing outside the game, causing real-life emotional suffering as a hobby, not just “being a vilain in a video game”.

  17. mondomau says:

    Considering that, here in the UK, a student has just been put in prison for being a drunk, ignorant racist, I think this bloke got off lightly.

    • Apples says:

      I was really shocked and uncomfortable with that sentencing. I’m what could uncharitably be described as the PC police or a militant feminist or something, and I strongly believe that language influences thoughts and societies, but I’d rather see a million sexist posts on twitter be made freely and without legal criminalisation than see one sexist internet commenter be jailed.*

      *unless they’re posting about some action they intend to do/have done like assaulting someone, obviously.

      • NathanH says:

        Amusingly, I could be described as a PC-hating anti-authoritarian tory, but I thought that sentence was reasonably justified.

      • Cryo says:

        Well. We are just going to disagree on that.

      • Oof says:

        I must side with Apples on the drunken teen…

  18. Stevostin says:

    I – Mostly it should be a legal problem submitted to a court – and if the case is not strong enough, then maybe it’s no a problem at all after all

    II – That being said CCP is of course legitimate to have inner behaviour rules. That being said I am not sure it’s legitimate to apply those to anything that doesn’t happen in game, or on a forum. If I behave badly in a poker club, it’s fine to kick me out of it. But if behave fine in and bad out, I think it’s not legitimate for the poker club to do the same.

    III – CCP is definitely not right to fire the guy from the council. Either the Council is a player thing, either it’s not. It’s pretty clear now that CCP can intervene and influence what this institution comes with. Maybe that wasn’t the case here, but a) you’ll never know b)you’ll never know for the next times (if I seem suspicious, just remember why there was a need for a council in the first place). The point of separating powers is to avoid to leave to interpretation stuff that can’t really be sorted out by interpretation.

    • AchronTimeless says:

      Just to take this to the extreme.. what you’re basically saying Stevostin is that if you were a teacher, as long as you didn’t molest children *in* the school, only outside of it, you shouldn’t ever be kicked out of your job with children. There’s always a point where this bullshit excuse you’re using falls apart, and while he didn’t go quite so far past that point, Alex definitely crossed that line with his actions.

      He is the duly elected chair of the player council, backed by and given authority to represent the players by CCP because if they didn’t allow or recognize a council then there wouldn’t be one. He’s practically an employee at that point, and he ran amok on their live broadcast to the world. After constantly struggling with PR and finally pulling themselves out of that hole along with announcing a partnership with the ever fickle Sony… you seriously think there’s not going to be serious repercussions here? Yeah, if he got “thrown under a bus” it was because he brought the bus there, told someone to drive circles around the parking lot, and took a running start for the final leap towards the wheels.

      • Dozer says:

        That reminds me of the good old Summer of 2008, where we got to drive buses around in circles in the car park behind the bus station, for all of thirty seconds. Then the instructor made us drive the bus down the road, around the roundabouts, and up the dual carriageway to Bristol. That was terrifying.

        I left before anyone was thrown underneath my bus though.

      • Stevostin says:

        I think your comparison isn’t working because the status of a player is fairly different from the status of a worker with responsibilities (not to mention teacher responsible of the child he’s actually molesting – you don’t need to get to that extreme for the comparison to get out of track IMO).

        The valid comparison would rather be if someone molest a child in a theme park and for some reason (say he just spit in the face of the kid) there is no restriction order by a court to keep distances after that, person A still can still can go in a supermarket where molested child be would happen to go as well. And the supermarket would have nothing to say about it.

        What I am saying here is that when an offense is serious there is a tool in our societies that’s called justice and that’s a delicately crafted tool because balances mistakes have huge repercussions with that kind of hammer. A private company (or even person) improvising on the role of justice bringer rarely saves the day. I am not saying there should be no consideration at all about what goes on outside Eve between two players to know what to do in Eve about them, but it should be left to most extreme cases, ie a case where IRL justice has clearly pointed out there’s a real issue. Outside of that that’s just admin tempted to play god as all admins do ;-)

        • AchronTimeless says:

          You’ve missed the biggest point of this whole thing. He wasn’t just a player. It wasn’t you or me doing this, it was the head of the officially endorsed and recognized player council. They have to sign NDA agreements to be on it, they’re practically unpaid employees. So your whole dismissing that it was a person in power whose whole position is to advocate for the playerbase abusing his position of power to call forth an internet mob to harass a man to death is a bit absurd. I’m rather shocked that you’re oblivious to this.

    • Delusibeta says:

      3) He resigned anyway, apparently, so it’s all a bit academic.

      • AchronTimeless says:

        No, he only “resigned”. He tried to pull back and say he was only resigning from the head position but still intended to stay on the CSM. CCP held him to his original promise and there was much nashing of teeth. Now he’s going to try to collapse the game economy on April 24th with the help of his loyal minions that have been convinced that the only reason anyone is mad about this situation is because the goon swarm is just so awesome this is the only way they can be beaten. Must be nice to have an army of mindless minions…

  19. Kadayi says:

    So he wanted everyone to hound some guy into killing himself and they give him a 30 day ban? Just perm ban him and delete all his accounts. End of story.

    • Screamer says:

      Here here!

    • Prime says:

      Seconded/Thirded. Listening to his Soundcloud rant the guy’s ego seriously needs taken down a peg or twelve. A 30-day ban is nowhere near strong enough punishment for his crime.

    • RakeShark says:

      To be cold and fair Kad, Eve is a different beast. What you have is pretty much the largest export and business in Iceland not centered around alcohol or tourism. Disrupt that, and the fallout is going to hurt a nation. CD Project is a darling child of Poland, but CCP is an economic pillar supporting Iceland right now.

      You might think perma-banning one dude is no big deal, as it usually is with all MMOs, theMittani isn’t just a regular player. He’s been in a position of power, a politician, and represents a fair amount of national income to Iceland. There’s no right answer to this considering all that is affected by this event.

      It disgusts me a little, but if you’ve wanted an analogy for why questionable business practices typically get a slap on the wrist from governments, this is it. Life imitating video games.

      Also: To clarify, what Mittani did disgusts me even more, and despite what I wrote above, I’d also clamor for a perma-ban too.

      • Prime says:

        While I appreciate the reasoning it falls into the logical trap of “this is The Way Life Is and cannot ever change”. The world can be a far, far better place if ethical considerations and compassion are taken into account in everyday dealings, business or otherwise. To suggest that Mittani is too important to the economy of a country to properly chastise is absolutely ludicrous, just as it was for the banks that were “too big to fail”. Perma-ban him, someone else takes his place at the top. Simple. No countries destroyed. No MMO ruined. And if no-one does, then the system evolves around that, changes, adapts. Removing him does not mean the end of anything.

        • RakeShark says:

          You know, that’s a fair counter-point.

          I can pull back the emphasis on Mittani being a small but key part of keeping the Iceland economy going. And you’e right when you say without Mittani, someone else would fill that role.

          Still a part of me thinks/believes the nature of Eve Online means that there’s too much more going on behind the curtains to simply enact a standard MMO response. Especially with the Dust514/Sony deal making the politics of Eve and CCP’s income that much more touchy.

      • Kadayi says:

        I hear what you’re saying. However I doubt whether the rest of the goons are going to throw in their accounts and sacrifice all their personal efforts they’re put in over the years due to his punishment. Sure some of them might not be happy, but ultimately I’m sure many of them would recognise that he brought it on himself.

        • RakeShark says:

          Fair enough Kad. We shouldn’t expect Goonswarm to simply toss down their accounts/subs in disgust and protest at the drop of Mittani’s hat. I’m just starting to see Eve as an honest digital nation, with it’s own share of political asshattery and embarrassing voter base.

    • Resurgam says:

      +1

    • Malibu Stacey says:

      If it was the UK those comments were made in I expect he’d get a longer sentence than this other vile character -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17515992

      • Askeladd says:

        Evil persons helping creating a ‘better’ eve universe.
        Ever wondered why its not a learning curve but a cliff?

        And he only got a 30 day ban…
        Thats why we can’t have nice things :(

        • Malibu Stacey says:

          Mate I played it for 2 & 1/2 years. I was in IAC & flew many times alongside GoonSwarm during the so called Great EVE War against the BoB Hegemony.

          However I still think he’s an utterly vile person & should be treated as such as you’ll gather from my posts on this article.

    • iainl says:

      Given the man should be in jail, whether or not he can access EVE accounts is academic.

  20. Jim9137 says:

    Is this cyberpunk? Is it yet?

  21. Goodtwist says:

    Are you serious?!

    Alexander Gianturco committed a crime – in my books. He was essentially inciting others, and he has sufficient influence on others, to drive the victim to either kill/hurt himself and/or others, too (if the victim decided to commit suicide by harming bystanders etc.).

    For me, it’s utterly unacceptable to let this whole affair go by with a meek “30 days ban”. IN JAIL, then yes.

    Think about it if you or somebody you care about were the target of Gianturco’s hate speech.

    I don’t know which jurisdiction is competent in this case but there clearly must be made a precedent.

    EDIT: No, I don’t advocate “law ‘n order” policies. I just hate bullies and toughs.

  22. FluffDaSheep says:

    In vino veritas, as Doc Holiday would say.

  23. Dominic White says:

    When I’m drunk, I’m more likely to make fun of you in online games for not being able to hit the drunk guy. Even when slamming vast quantities of vodka, I’ve never been drunk enough to do or say something truly regrettable, or ‘conveniently’ forget what I did the previous night.

    Booze is a really weaksauce excuse. Losing that council seat because Goonswarm’s own top leadership can’t resist the urge to be a raging assholes is a very fitting punishment.

  24. BobsLawnService says:

    “I’m not a royal cunt. I just play one in real life.”

    Glad to see CCP taking action here.

  25. Crazy Hippo says:

    ” He has a theory that other forces (i.e. rival Alliances) influenced CCP’s decision to punish him,…”

    is this not a case of pot,… kettle… and the colour black? with regards to the T20 issue many years ago?

    • Froggington says:

      That t20 thing where one of the devs was handing out things to his friends in a competitive pvp game?

      No matter how you want to cut what Mittani did, it’s not exactly swings and roundabouts. One inherently affects the game, the other does not.

  26. DarkFenix says:

    Nobody who’s ever encountered Goonswarm on Eve before can possibly be surprised by this.

  27. Mordsung says:

    Telling someone to kill themselves on the internet is about as benign as telling someone to fuck off.

    In a world where almost all forms of internet communication have ignore functions, I don’t actually believe in internet bullying.

    It’s the internet, everyone is equally powerful, so if someone spouts shit at you, you spout back.

    • AndrewC says:

      Your worldview is sad to me. I genuinely hope you find some good people in your life.

      • Mordsung says:

        What about what I said would have you believe I don’t have good people in my life? I have a loving wife, plenty of friends and a loving family.

        I just don’t believe in this bullying shit online. You can ignore them, or you can spout back. You only take it if you want to take it.

        On the playground, what did you do with a bully? You either walked away or you hit back.

        • AndrewC says:

          Then your lack of compassion makes me worry for your loving family. Please be good to them.

        • sneetch says:

          @Mordsung
          I just don’t believe in this bullying shit online. You can ignore them, or you can spout back. You only take it if you want to take it.

          On the playground, what did you do with a bully? You either walked away or you hit back.

          What do you do if the bullies follow you after you walk away? What if the bullying is not physical? If the torments follow you out of the school? On to online forums, youtube? If people are texting, tweeting, posting hateful things about you, to you? If the bullying is constant and all invasive? What do you do if you don’t know who to turn to or if the people you do turn to say “walk away or hit back”? What would you do if it was one of your kids who was experiencing this kind of bullying?

          You have a very simplistic view of these things and you apparently have no idea of the effect of real bullying on vulnerable people. You don’t “believe” in it? What amazing arrogance.

          • Mordsung says:

            As I said in response to the other poster, I was bullied as a kid. It did not take long for me to stop this.

            Of course, I was lucky, my dad taught me how to fight at a very young age. He also taught me “never hit first, but always hit last.”

            And being 12 on the internet back in the mid to late 90′s taught me how to counter-troll, because the internet was a pretty lawless place at that time.

            I just think anti-bullying stuff is going to lead to an entire generation of kids with no backbone.

          • sneetch says:

            Agh! Bloody comment system! That comment took ages.

            Ok, briefly this time. Firstly, I apologise Mordsung, for calling you arrogant, that was uncalled for.

            I was also bullied as a teenager, mentally not physically, by people at the school I attended (the only school in the region so the only one I could attend). It really damaged my sense of self worth and my confidence and has had long term effects that I couldn’t even begin to tackle until my mid-twenties, no-one should be put through that. Fighting against bullying shouldn’t have to mean fighting back or walking away, reporting it will take a lot of courage and I don’t see that standing up to bullies in that manner will result in you having less backbone than a kid who beats up their bully or puts up with their bullying.

          • Mordsung says:

            It depends.

            There should always be ways to report bullies, just like we have cops to report crimes. The problem arises when we keep legislating more and more of this process. When we try to create legal terms for what is bullying.

            What ends up happening is bullying becomes a catch-all word for “conflict”.

            I debate people pretty aggressively on a lot of topics. I do not insult people, but I’ll insult their position or ideals if I feel it’s warranted.

            I have already seen cases of debate become labeled as bullying.

            We live in a society of free ideals, and debate should be encouraged, and a person’s ideals or religion shouldn’t be immune from criticism. I am against insulting the person, but if I want to insult someone’s archaic philosophy that’s called challenging their ideals, and it should be ENCOURAGED.

            We’re already sliding toward a world where confrontation makes people have mini-panic attacks, that’s not good for our species.

        • Prime says:

          A classic example of “I have no problem therefore there is no problem”. Arrogance is right. You need to develop some empathy, friend, and expand your horizons to beyond what you have personally experienced. Your statement is akin to declaring that there is no such thing as sexism or racism just because you have never been troubled by it. Bullying exists precisely because there are people who are, by all appearances, more sensitive to these things than you.

          This is made all the more ludicrous by the fact that you have actually experienced bullying. Yes, you found a way out of it but for many others it is not so simple, for a variety of reasons.

          • Mordsung says:

            Once again, I was bullied for being a fat gaming nerd.

            I am speaking from a point of experience as someone who was bullied.

            No one coming to my defense would have stopped me from being a victim.

            If protections had been put in place, I would still be a victim to this day.

            Because protections didn’t exist, I stopped being a victim by learning to deal with it myself.

          • AndrewC says:

            Remember: it is always the victim’s fault.

            I am sorry for you.

          • Mordsung says:

            It’s not always the victim’s fault, but sometimes it is. Or, at least, the victim is partially responsible. And to deny that is ludicrous.

            To say it’s always the victim’s fault is a ludicrous statements, and to say it’s never the victim’s vault is just as ludicrous. We do not live in a world of black and white, we live in a big grey area.

            But thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, really.

          • El_Emmental says:

            It’s sad that people refuse to read Mordsung’s words without falling into “HAAA YOU’RE A HEARTLESS MONSTER”.

            If we would stop with all the hypocrisy and aknowledge bullying greatly involves the bullied, we could start doing something about it. You know, rather than making unefficient “campaigns” against bullying – that are like making a campaign to tackle the increasing amount of divorce by displaying “Talk with each others” “Share your feelings” posters. Seriously.

            All the fuss about “but the victim is a victim !” is exactly like people giving disabled a sorry-eye, being all nice and smiling at them… that’s like stabbing them in the face, while pretending it’s for their own good. Pity is diamond dust put in your plate : shiny and of high value, but will ultimately pierce you from the inside and leave you bleeding to your death. Seeing a disabled person really enjoying the fact you’re not really paying attention to his wheelchair or erratic movements, but rather paying attention to what he’s saying or expressing, is slowly saddening me inside : why people can’t give them a break ? damnit.

            My experience with helping bullied classmates (and it worked, for many different types of bullied – I could wrote pages on the subtle mechanisms of bullying) showed me it’s all about the “victim” behaving like a victim of its environment, locking itself in this mental state. I never had to face/beat/look at bullies to solve such problems, it was all about the bullied and the bullied alone. The only thing that ever worked was months-long reconstruction of their ego and self-esteem (through destruction of the victimized past-self by constructing of a new-self), mostly by progressively socially interacting with them.

            I personally know some social workers, who (also) have to deal with domestic violence (aka “women being beaten by drunk/drugged husband”), it’s really depressing to finally get them to leave the violent man, only see them falling (in love ?) for the first violent man they meet. Even after 6 violent husbands, they’re still not admitting they should drastically change something about themselves.

            Being a victim doesn’t mean you’re not the actual source of the problem. It also doesn’t mean you deserve it or are “responsible” for it.

          • Oof says:

            Just to pitch in here quickly:

            Mordsung, as you say, you were lucky enough to have a supporting dad. Some bullied people don’t have a supportive family, or even any friends. What would you have those people do when all they experience is that the whole world is, at best, disinterested in their plight or, at worst, actively involved in tightening the screws?

            While your view is admirable, it’s hardly a solution to every bullied person’s problems. The weakest amongst us may well need help to survive long enough to become capable, self-confident members of society.

        • Askeladd says:

          This is a really interesting topic:

          As you grow up you learn to deal with those things, until they almost have no effect on you, because you have build yourself a life other than the environment you are bullied in. There you can get another acuteness of thought that helps you deal with it.

          But when you are underdeveloped as a person – therefore lacking in that regard your mind is ‘invaded’ by the bad thoughts of others.
          Often those persons didn’t develop right because they lacked social interaction, which some of them end up playing videogames.
          I think we know the rest.

    • Unaco says:

      What about encouraging large numbers of people to hound and harass a vulnerable individual? Is that still ‘benign’?

      • Mordsung says:

        Yes, because a person chooses to be vulnerable. At any time, he can stop caring.

        The end result of all actions is the heat death of the universe. What happens between now and then is of very little consequence.

        So just take a deep breath and let it go dude.

        • Unaco says:

          “Yes, because a person chooses to be vulnerable. At any time, he can stop caring.”

          Absolute Bullshit.

          • Mordsung says:

            Yes, because it’s not like millions of bullied kids don’t choose to stop being bullied every year.

            Most of us were likely bullied. We’re gaming nerds. I was a chubby little kid with glass and his head stuck in gaming mag.

            One day some, if not most of us, realize that what we’re bullied for is our advantage. Some kids are bullied for being smart, and once they realize this the bullying stops being effective. One day the fat kid realizes he outweighs the bully by 2 times and he beats that bully so badly the kid doesn’t even look sideways at him ever again.

            And if you’re the smaller kid, there’s always rocks and cheap shots.

          • RakeShark says:

            I have to call you on this one too Mordsung.

            It’s easy to think that if only someone told us that the bullying would end in the future, we’d stop caring about being bullied. I’m no child psychologist, nor any kind of psychologist, but I’m pretty sure not everyone arrives to the same degree of acceptance of themselves at the same time. Some find themselves somewhat in college, some figure out themselves after a few jobs in their late 20′s, and some never really come to grips with themselves until late in middle-age. Pretty sure there are a few who never do at all.

            A kid has just as much trouble processing, if not more, outside oppression than an adult. Sure he could any day switch off the “care” switch, but to say every kid can/will do it at will is, as Unaco said, bullshit.

          • Mordsung says:

            Then why not create a culture that is about personal acceptance and teaching one to not care about what other’s think about them instead of creating a world where the sheep are told to hide behind their fences and run for help when someone looks at them funny?

            When I grew up, you dealt with the wolves by becoming the bear.

            I simply fear the society my child will grow up in will be so neutered that all that will be in he eyes of our children is the look of fear and dependence.

            I fear we are squelching the fire of humanity.

          • Apples says:

            The fire of humanity never included dealing with mass harrassment from one’s peers. Facing outside threats with a sense of perspective, self-confidence and courage, okay. But, you know, being civil to people doesn’t make everyone into lobotomised sheeple – it just makes life easier for everyone and in fact increases the possibility of them being able to respond to threats positively, because a strong support network and history of positive social interaction does that. Also, ‘being nice’ doesn’t mean ‘never criticising’; it’s the difference between “I think you’re wrong, and here’s why” and “STFU U FAGGOT KILL YOURSELF”. ‘Becoming the bear’ sounds like becoming as bad or worse as your attackers to avoid harm, becoming a predator yourself.

          • Mordsung says:

            The problem is that we’re moving towards a point where even heated criticism is being deemed bullying.

            And online, for as long as I have been online (somewhere around 1995), “STFU KILLYOURSELF FAGGOT” has been about equivalent to “fuck off”.

            People go over the top online, it’s always been that way. It has become to the point where many words have different meanings. Fag doesn’t always mean gay, actually I’d say more often than not is has no connection to homosexuality when used online. Nigger (and I apologize if I offend) really doesn’t mean black person online anymore. And “Kill yourself” doesn’t really mean “I want you to commit suicide.”

            Urban dictionary can show how much language has evolved in the online space to the point where the same sentence said online can have a completely different meaning when said in real life.

            I’m not against punishing bullies (and I think GoonSwarm dude should have got the ban he did, he broke the EULA/ToS), BUT I am against this general push of “anti-bullying” sentiment, because I don’t believe it’s actually anti-bullying, I believe it’s “Omg I can’t take criticism” labeled as “Anti-bullying”.

          • Apples says:

            I’m not going to address the “nigger doesn’t REALLY mean black person!!” argument because it has been covered in many many times and places and if you were bothered you could find out the criticisms of it yourself. As for “kill yourself faggot” being criticism, it rather obviously isn’t, it’s just ad hominem nonsense that doesn’t even begin to approach a criticism. Until a few years ago I had the same kind of hardened 4chan veteran attitude that you do, also as a result of growing up on the internet, but I think coming to a better understanding of minority issues over a long period of time changed it. I still expect people to be pretty hard in the face of attacks but at the same time I realise that those attacks SHOULD NOT EXIST and should not have to be dealt with at all and the world would probably be a better place without them! Because without them all criticisms would have to be ACTUAL criticisms, not because without them there would be no conflict or strife or disagreement. Having anxiety as the result of a constant barrage of attacks on your perceived sexual orientation or your gender is not being weak and unable to take criticism (since at base level you can’t really be criticised for being gay or female, it doesn’t make sense), it actually is being a victim of bullying.

        • Deano2099 says:

          Mordsung – most people can’t just choose to stop caring. Most people’s brains don’t work that way. You could well be different, but most of us can’t just shut things off, and believe me we’ve all had experiences where we’ve wanted to and tried.

          • El_Emmental says:

            Deciding to stop being bullied is not about not caring at all, it’s about accepting you are bullied because you are behaving as a psychologically weaker person (stimulating other people with lower control of themselves, who primitively react to such situation) and refuse to move away from that. Being psychologically weak is one thing, refusing to face it is another.

            I’ve suffered from self-victimization for a few years during my childhood and nothing good came from it, it’s only when I acknowledged it and accepted to question myself (and myself alone) that I started moving forward.

            Now with the “online experience is worst, look at all the hate and insults”, I don’t agree.

            The harassment, hate and psychological violence is already there in-real-life, it’s already felt and done by everyone (including kids), Internet is just allowing such negative interactings to be expressed directly rather than indirectly through subtle/vicious ways.

            Regarding that, I really don’t know which is the worst… (nb: that’s rhetorical)

            A black person might prefer getting a good job and hearing “come on nigga !” (by 2 white male players talking to each others) on the Internet, rather than being told “We’re very sorry, but we do have any position available for your profile at the moment, we will call you if there is any opportunity for you” all the time while the N word is banned from all media.

            A girl might prefer having online services and video games having credible female characters and not only about destroying something, rather than having to play yet another man-shooter while players throwing some “tits or gtfo” “girl can’t play video-games” “go back to the kitchen” are booed at while a bunch of whiteknights are becoming your “nice guys” protection squad.

            Regarding “go kill yourself”, it’s desacralizing the act of suicide, emptying it of its meaning, while all the “you shouldn’t suicide, it is not the right solution” spam is only proving them suicide is a strong meaningful action, worth doing if you want to convey a strong message. If committing suicide is laughed at like some kind of pathetic overused drama mechanism (like it’s done regarding emo or rebelz “row row fight the power !”), there’s no point in doing it : you’ll be doing something completely trivial nobody cares about.

    • Drake Sigar says:

      I used to believe that, Mordsung, but these days if I find someone’s Blog it’ll probably link me to their Youtube and Facebook pages. It’s all becoming interlinked for convenience, which means if someone is determined enough, there is no escape. Getting around the ignore function is as simple as creating another account. I once saw someone create over 50 e-mail addresses in a few hours just to harass one guy.

      Edit: Forget I said anything. Judging by the rubbish you’re spouting to Unaco, you’re obviously trolling.

      • Mordsung says:

        Oh yes, obviously I’m trolling because I hold a strong view counter to that of the apparent “norm”.

        I’ve outlined why I hold these views, and just because I choose to express them in the manner I do does not mean I am trolling.

        I fear what this societal push towards “anti-bullying” will become. It will become anti-argument. Anti-challenge.

        Bullies must be dealt with, but not in this manner.

        We must empower the bullied, not simply give them someone to run to.

      • Askeladd says:

        Well this only proofes that social networks are often abused for bullying other people. The reason trolls are so bold is it gives them easy statisfication with relative anonymity.

        Mordsung is only telling the people how he dealt with it.
        I reminds me somehow of 300:
        You people: Its madness
        Mordsung: THIS – IS – COUNTER-BULLYING !! *kicks bully down a deep well*

        • Mordsung says:

          I was never really a kicker, being fat and all (and I was FAT, I broke 100lbs in Kindergarten, 200 by the 5th grade and maxed out at 350 in the 8th grade.)

          I was more of a slammer. Body checking a kid into a wall works really well when you outweigh him by 100+ lbs.

          Eventually I even got one of the other bullied kids, a much faster kid, to be my runner/tackler if the bully tried to run.

          Though I will admit by the time I was in the 6th grade it was more of a bully food chain and I just happened to be the apex predator. But at least my victims all deserved it.

    • Paxeh says:

      What The Mittani did was commit a human error fuelled by running around with hardly any sleep, too much of drink and being in a pumped up atmosphere where every member of a panel wants to be the ‘biggest bad ass around’. Viewing the actual footage where he screwed up shows me a one hour run of bragging and muscle flexing whilst being intoxicated.

      Reading The Mittani’s twitter posts and the message on the EVE forums he’s expressed regret for his actions after sobering up and arriving back in the US and immediately stepped down from his current and future position in the games player run council. He subsequently apologised to the player in question, donated a lot of in-game cash to the player and apologised to the player-base. The victim responded by saying it was okay and CCP went and did what they could do based on their T&A and banned the offender for 30 days. Case closed.

      And now everyone wants more blood because The Mittani is a big old baddie and we have people yelling for him to be put in jail or perma banned? This is where I think we’re going a bit too far with this and I can just hear the sound of a mob armed with pitchforks.

      As a side: Not to criticise you too hard Alec, I love all your other items and I think you’re a good writer and reporter, but I do feel your item on this thing seems a bit rushed and somehow feels not like 100% objective reporting. But that might also be because of the words chosen and subsequent replies in the comments.

      • Deano2099 says:

        Hmm, my impression of the timeline is different? As I see it, he made stupid comments, then apologised and sent money to the victim.

        Then CCP decided to ban him for 30 days and remove him from the council.

        Then he had a strop, complained he’d been thrown under the bus and it wasn’t fair because he’d owned his mistake so he shouldn’t be banned.

      • Pioneer42 says:

        Agreed. This article just doesn’t meet the high level of expectations for gaming journalism that we are accustomed to on RockPaperShotgun.

      • pantognost says:

        This is the usual mentality of the EVE crowd. Toughen up…to our standards. I agree though. If you don’t want to have anything to do with the likes of the Mittanis leave. I know I have. I guess I am not that “hardcore”. I compensate by considering myself human.

    • Adekan says:

      Unfortunately this view is not the case in this specific circumstance. The Mittani literally has thousands of followers who will do whatever he asks without question just because of the position he is in. You can ignore one jackass. You can’t ignore five thousand. And depending on just how depressed this guy is ( He may not even be depressed because of an in-game thing, imagine that? ) this could be more than enough to push him over the edge.

      To put it in terms a non-player of EVE might understand, It’d be like the President of the United States going on public television and telling people to send messages to a suicidally depressed person telling them to do it. It’s an abuse of power, and a sickening one at that. This may seem like hyperbole, but at peak hours you can find maybe 50,000 people playing EVE. Goonswarm (The Mittani’s Alliance) has nearly 10,000 members who play constantly. Not to mention allied alliances which are near or equal numbers to Goonswarm and take orders from The Mittani. Nearly everybody who plays the game atleast knows who he is. The reaction of CCP is deserved, and indeed may not even be harsh enough.

  28. Drake Sigar says:

    As the Internet bleeds more and more into the brighter greener world, we get more people forgetting Internet behaviour doesn’t belong out there. Out there we have a social etiquette which if broken, will bring down a media firestorm. I don’t think this guy is a sociopath. He should absolutely receive an appropriate punishment for his actions though, and the sentence so far sounds pretty light for using his position to encourage others to bully and harass a suicidal player.

    A month ban and removal from a council of which he can be reelected later? That’s barely even a slap on the wrist!

  29. Apples says:

    So can Goonswarm elect another person to take The Mittani’s place or have they lost their Council representation entirely?

    • diamondmx says:

      In keeping with previous violations of the rules, the other candidates on the CSM will effectively move up a position.
      This was acceptable to everyone when previous CSMs were removed, and it should continue to be acceptable now.

  30. diamondmx says:

    Any regret in his stated apology or his comments in the audio are both negated by the rest of his attitude in the audio.
    He feels victimised by the 30 day ban, and he feels that what he did was not acceptable for a CSM member under the spotlight of Sony and the viewing masses.

    What he did was not acceptable for any player, at any time. The fact that it was unignorably blatant in front of so many people only makes it stupider, not more wrong.

    I hope CCP takes some effort to clarify that if he (or anyone else) does this again, or something similar, outside his CSM position, he will get perma-banned for sure.

    • pjnlsn says:

      “What he did was not acceptable for any player, at any time. The fact that it was unignorably blatant in front of so many people only makes it stupider, not more wrong.

      I hope CCP takes some effort to clarify that if he (or anyone else) does this again, or something similar, outside his CSM position, he will get perma-banned for sure.”

      People are cruel, you should deal with it.

      And fat chance at CCP perma banning. There was a guy giving me some lip in channel, so I told him I’d come to his house and kill him with a silenced pistol; That was in Jita local, pry like 2000+ people read it, and all I got was a 14-day ban >:D

      RAWR

  31. Artista says:

    Well, looks like I’m not missing anything if I never play Eve Online.

    • Apples says:

      Why, because one player said something offensive? Doesn’t that rule out all online games for you?

      • iainl says:

        Only the ones where criminal hate-speech doesn’t get you a permaban.

        • Apples says:

          Most of them, then, considering that the vast majority of hate speech probably goes completely unreported and un-dealt-with in online games, especially ones with very large userbases.

          edit: well i guess you can always play ones where you just can’t type to other players but apart from those…??

          • Batolemaeus says:

            You’re wrong.

            Even in lesser known games, if a matter like this is brought to attention to staff, notification of authorities and immediate termination of the account of the offender is the most likely result.

            Death threats and instigating people into bullying someone with the expressed goal to get them to kill themselves are illegal no matter the medium.

        • pjnlsn says:

          Well, it’s got nothing to do with gameplay, if that’s what you’re implying, it would seem rather that both of you are just too sensitive.

      • Cryo says:

        Because it’s a game that elevates people like him into positions of power.

  32. TODD says:

    Alec Meer is a bit confused. The Mittani isn’t a roleplayer. There is a difference between playing the role of the leader of a notorious griefer alliance and “roleplaying” the leader of a griefer alliance.

  33. lollies says:

    Petition started. Get your names on this and get rid of him. In 20 days lets get to 10 thousand and remove him from EVE.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/alexander-the-mittani-gianturco-banned-from-eve-forever-effective-immediately

    • TODD says:

      “Add your name to the growing list of those who agree.”

      “Signatures: 1 out of 10,000″

    • ikh says:

      if you think kneejerk-permabanning the leader of the biggest and arguably most powerful alliance (maybe even in the history) of eve online due to a stupid drunken comment is a sound, unbiased decision which would have a positive effect on eve, you need to take a step back. it would not be a just decision in a vacuum for any random player of the game, much less a character of his position and “power”.

      especially since mittani has done a surprisingly stellar job as the csm chairman for the time he’s been at the helm as far as i can tell (haven’t played the game in ages but have followed its metagame and development). csm was thought of as a puppet government of sorts before his era.

      • pantognost says:

        So by your reasoning, a person of power should have more leeway in his reactions than a less powerful person. Power to power…is that it? No! Powerful individuals should self restrain themselves and if not capable of this they should be forcibly removed. In the case of a powerful individual in a game they should remove him from the game permanently.

        • ikh says:

          i said no such thing. your posts in this thread are too emotional, biased and fact-averse to even begin responding further.

  34. Adekan says:

    After all the unbearable ” I can’t be beaten because I have 10,000 people directly under my control who will vote for me no matter what ” smugness from him during the CSM election, I can’t feel sorry for him. He just goes to prove that he really is the unrepentant jackass he “roleplays” by his actions after the banning, eg. whining about it being unfair.

    Also giving the guy all his money means nothing from an EVE prospective. Goonswarm probably makes upwards of 1 trillion ISK an hour at this point. Which he can dip his hand into all he wants.

    This definitely gives me more faith in CCP than any other action in the past few months.

  35. Thrawn200 says:

    Please don’t write anymore articles about Eve Online. You obviously don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

    • TODD says:

      Yeah, I’m thinking Mr Rossignol should have written the article. There are too many downright stupid errors in here.

    • Adekan says:

      I don’t see a problem with most of the article. Granted, it’s obviously not from an EVE player’s point of view but he got the point across about The Mittani without getting too much into the game.

      • TODD says:

        Here’s a list of erroneous statements from the article:

        >Gianturco is to receive a 30-day ban from Eve – which is, I suspect, quite a handicap for a player as powerful as he

        The Mittani hardly ever logs in. It’s a running joke in his alliance.

        >Gianturco blamed drunkenness

        He repeatedly said that it was all his fault for putting himself into a drunken state, and that he was completely responsible for his subsequent actions. His only quibble was that his drunken action did not reflect his personality or values, which only a moron or a child would read as an excuse.

        >‘The Mittani’ has always been roleplayed as a baddie

        The Mittani is not a roleplayer. I mean, holy shit. How do you get this wrong?

        >He has a theory that other forces (i.e. rival Alliances) influenced CCP’s decision to punish him,

        He only stated the incontrovertible fact that rivals for the CSM and rival alliances had been making political hay ever since the Eurogamer article.

        >He… is planning a huge ‘free Mittani’ invasion

        The blockade of Jita had been in planning for over a week BEFORE his election. The invasion of Tenal has been ongoing for months.

        Finally, Alec mistakenly implied that The Mittani had anything to do with making that poster.

        • RakeShark says:

          >The Mittani is not a roleplayer. I mean, holy shit. How do you get this wrong?

          I think he meant that the persona Mr. Gianturco puts forth when he’s in his Goonswarm Eve pants is a traditionally unlikable person outside of the context of Eve and SA. Not so much roleplaying/LARPing as it is putting on the warface.

          Nuts, I said WARFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

          • TODD says:

            That’s all true, but that isn’t what is implied by the word “roleplay,” especially in the context of MMOs.

          • RakeShark says:

            I think the RPS interview which lacked reminiscing about bouncing around in the Star Faction romp room absolves him from that association.

        • El_Emmental says:

          Not being an EvE player myself (never tried it, read several stories, my brother played it for 6 months), I read two or three blog posts about the event and found all these informations (never logged in leader joke, the raid being planned for months, the fact that he’s not blaming booze for the drama, the fact the “victim” doesn’t care much about it, etc) in 45 minutes.

          But I don’t really blame the RPS crew for not getting the real facts and issues, EvE is a rather enormous universe and you can’t really understand what’s happening unless you’re deeply involved in it. And since they’re covering so many games and video games industry topics at the same time, until they have a dedicated EvE reporter, they’ll never get good quality coverage on it.

          Hopefully comments often get things right and provide a link or two for the true details.

    • Ultra-Humanite says:

      It’s amazing how much you people have missed the point.

  36. Berzee says:

    affectedIRL?

  37. liquid07 says:

    Hmm, Im sure there will be some militant minds now planning what to do when they know mittani and his minions will be In jita… In HIGH SEC…. and on which day, no one made that point.

    He cant do that, most probable lose EVERYTHING to give the middle finger to CCP, I doubt he thought that through.

  38. TsunamiWombat says:

    I am disappointed. Originally it seemed as if he was completely owning his actions/mistake. Now he’s upset he’s getting banned? Just for 30 days? He’s lucky he’s not getting a criminal charge for something.

  39. Jade Constantine says:

    I always take exception with the notion that somehow Alexander Gianturco (the Mittani) was that useful during the Incarna crisis in eve online last year.

    ***

    The problem is a Mittani-led CSM6 didn’t represent “the players” either. It represented a selection of nullsec voting blocs interests without really caring about the wider issues in the game. CSM6 was noteworthy for removing transparency and accountability from the CSM process (no more internal meeting minutes) for cloaking decision making behind committee head (we couldn’t see who believed what) and for initially schmoozing with the MT devs when they should have been protesting Incarna.

    Lets remember Mittani is infamous for getting drunk with CCP Monocle and telling him that the players of Eve would be cool with a “gold scorpion” purchased entirely with Aurum and no other input. (which breaks the essential economy of the game)

    First formal summit CSM came home from Iceland with nothing but a badly written set of formal minutes (that took MONTHS to agree) and did nothing to answer player fears about Incarna whatsoever and would lead on to the release of possibly the worst “expansion” in Eve Online’s history.

    Rage happened and it was rage from the player base with the Jita Riots and beginning of the unsub protest.

    During the “emergency summit” Mittens appeared on Eve TV with CCP thousand dollar jeans in a joint address assuring people it was all sorted and everyone was happy now. He came back from the summit with a Nevil Chamberlain-esq “peace in our time” paper that did absolutely NOTHING to mollify the rage and anger of the Eve player base.

    Protests continued, threadnaughts continued, unsubs continued.

    The only thing that turned the CCP ship around was the public Mea culpa from Hilmar and announcement of the crunch to Crucible and significant restructuring of the company.

    Now in this I say to you that Alexander Gianturco as chair provided very POOR leadership and representation of the player base and didn’t at any time have a full grasp of precisely what people were protesting about.

    And of course then we had the christmas minutes which were another fiasco. Released late and indistinct, with the CSM being refered to as “the csm” (not individual reps) and being on record as anonymously saying some very stupid things about game development and priority.

    Wormholes -what are they?
    FW -is for noobs isn’t it?
    Hisec -lol carebears?

    There was a player backlash and some of the rest of the CSM broke ranks with Gianturco and announced they had personally been “for” or “against” certain things to assure people they were not part of the collective.

    What did Gianturco achieve?

    I think his legacy is in removing transparency and accountability from the CSM and turning into a skype channel social club for nullsec alliance leaders to get their jollies from drinking in Iceland. He will be remembered as the guy who gave CCP Monocle the nod on MT delivery of spaceships, the guy that appeared with CCP thousand dollar jeans and said “crisis what crisis” and the guy that tried to run CSM like the goonswarm executive division pulling strings and puppet-mastering the other reps and announcing all decisions in an eery (but unbelievable) unity.

    And finally. He’ll be forever remembered as the unacceptable face of cyber-bullying and player harrassment in Eve Online in a role that puts him up there with Aris Bakhtanians as a villain then gaming media can get behind condemning. His drunken antics in calling a player to be harrassed to suicide with a wizards hat and cheesy smile will never be forgotten.

    Nor will his 11th hour attempt to cling onto power by having his sychophants on the CSM forge a shoddy compromise with CCP where he kept his position despite clear breach of CSM guidelines and basic Eve code of conduct that would have any other player booted to a ban immediately.

    So even when he could have kept some dignity by simply resigning as promised he waited too long and got kicked out proving himself a failure even in choosing the manner of his own demise.

    Eve online and the CSM is far the better for this guy leaving the stage.

    • Cryo says:

      So it’s just like real politics.

    • ikh says:

      i hate to make an argument based on character but jade constantine, you aren’t exactly known for being an objective spectator of the eve universe (though you often present yourself as one :/), and especially not when it comes to this particular subject. i’ve always seen your facade as much more of a politician striving for recognition rather than that of a player more deeply invested in the game than the drama around it. writing a couple chapters on eve csm politics here on RPS very well reinforces the impression.

      what separates you from the mittani is mostly how roundabout you are when it comes to admitting (or realizing) that.

      • Pioneer42 says:

        Exactly. Jade Constantine is an opportunist and twister-of-truths who is trying to use this situation to gain an advantage.

    • keddren says:

      Jade Constantine runs an e-brothel in a terrible space ship game. He is also widely regarded as the worst CSM chair in that body’s history.

      • Cryo says:

        E-brothel in a spaceship game. How does this even work? People pay you to sit in your cockpit?

  40. nootron says:

    So basically the Mittani is saying, “Im not an asshole, I just pretend to be one online, on twitter, on facebook, on the forums, in the games I play, and at conventions. But im realy just a nice guy, provided you’re hiding in my closet listening to me talk to my mom”

    • TsunamiWombat says:

      Troll logic doesn’t acknowledge the internet as ‘real’ for some reason. Anything and everything that occurs via digital communication is just lulsy and anyone who feels anything about it besides the luls is a butthurt carebear

      • Dozer says:

        <<this. The Internet Is Real Life. How many generations before this is universally understood?

  41. TsunamiWombat says:

    All Kings must die.

  42. psyk says:

    Good, now the CSM might get a non goon in and the tales of corruption can subside a bit.

  43. stallonezone says:

    ~my ceo

  44. buzzmong says:

    The goons are crying tears over all this (amusing as they live to harvest “tears”) and behind a facade of “Fanfest shouldn’t affect the game” type posts they all know losing their main voice on the CSM is a massive blow to the kidneys to them, which is what they’re really upset about.

    I think CCP acted fairly with regards to removal of the Chairmanship and the temp ban. Also, by their own longstanding policy: Ban hammer = removal from CSM, even if I don’t agree with it.

    Helps of course that there’s no one to blame but Mittens himself, as the comment was said in the free-for-all Q&A session which happens *after* the CCP vetted presentation is shown.

  45. mmalove says:

    Trying to feel sorry for him, but I just can’t. He breached the EULA by acting like an ass to someone at a live event, while in an elected position he volunteered for to represent the entire EVE playerbase. He left CCP no choice. I don’t doubt there are motives for CCP to drop the dime on him as his strong influence with the playerbase has very much realigned their plans for EVE (perhaps to their discomfort) – but this is akin to starting a bar fight in front of a cop and wondering how you got arrested. To not condemn his actions would place CCP in a far worse position of perceived favoritism.

    He did the right thing by apologizing, and perhaps I can see his roleplay Mittani retaliating against “the man” in EVE by striking Jita. But Alec himself has no right to bear ill will towards CCP for calling him on his bullshit.

  46. Arachnyd says:

    Finally. The game was a hell of a lot more friendly and mature before Mittani and his merry band of SomethingAwful loltards came along. I haven’t played in years, but I remember the decline in civility and overall maturity was precipitous as soon as they started showing up in force.

    People might remember the entire impetus for the Great War was BoB stomping on the Goons because they were mocking the real life death of an EVE player.

    • ikh says:

      of course, if your memory were to serve you correctly, the impetus was a forums post dug up at a strategically important time in 2006, when goonswarm was close to conquering its own piece of space instead of basing out of npc syndicate. the post dug up was made, err, two years earlier in ’04 i believe. yes, definitely that short-lived invasion was out of genuine anger rather than braggadoccio and politics. back then it was actually quite sad how molle/band of brothers started presenting some years old forums post was a cause for jihad (literally it was made into some sort of a holy war/crusade) all of the sudden when the timing for it is eerily convenient for some particular powers at play.

      when you compare the two and look at how pathetically politicized this whole thing got in eve, at least now i can somewhat give the benefit of the doubt that some eve players are actually offended at what happened instead of just getting a convenient catalyst for voicing out their already burning hatred for mittani/sa/goons/whatever. it’s hard to give, though, because when it comes to players in eve, everybody had already pretty much made up their minds about mittani either being a demon from hell out to destroy eve online, a crazy misanthropic sociopath, or just a dude with a bit of an ego.

      only people who i think are still trying to make up their mind between the three are the ones for whom all the information they have to go by is recent journalistic pieces. when it comes to helping people make such a judgement – if necessary – is where i think this article’s factual errors (which i believe stem from the original newspiece on massively?) have helped RPS do a little more harm than good. to be fair, i don’t think there’s a way to publicize this event in a way that’s beneficial to anyone or anything.

      • Arachnyd says:

        You’re probably right about the Smoske thing being a smokescreen. Regardless, I actually knew the guy in game and was annoyed. The point is that the Goon culture which was imported from SomethingAwful was toxic and immature, and (in my opinion) ruined what had previously been a pretty mature game. The Goons mocked the old EVE mindset as “serious business” about “internet spaceships”, ruined the forums with their spammy threadnauts, and jumpstarted a race to the lowest common denominator.

        • ikh says:

          i guess. what i see it as from the “goon culture” point of view is that in comparison to “back then”, there wasn’t really any real maturity or intelligence inside the eve community in the slightest (from my pov, i really can’t name alliances at the time which i would’ve considered “e-cool” – an issue which i’d extend to any mmo’s outside exceptionary guild cultures really, like, heh, sa-run ‘elitist jerks’ et al) compared to that of the something awful forums which, if you were to look at it, is – especially was – one of the prime bastions of intelligent online discussion. if you see people calling something awful forumgoers retards it’s likely because the guy saying that got instabanned after trying to have a go there, or he’s just somehow opinionated against them. few places nearing its size can match its level of literacy and maturity.

          what might make it seem otherwise is because of goons having a bit of a well-voiced superiority complex against pubbies, pubbies meaning non-goons… which ironically means 60% of goonswarm these days. most of what made the “threadnoughts” bad were the “goon killer” shitposters of the old (there was nothing worse than any bob/mc member posting – maturity? :p), ’cause whereas the original and only ‘threadnaught’ was launched to draw attention to a serious issue and concern in the game – t20 scandal that is – most posts “on the subject” were in the form of a dumb pro-skub anti-skub “you’re dumb” “much like your posting” kind of anti-argument.

          excuse any incongruity if evident, i’m slightly inebriated :)

  47. sheol says:

    This article is unfair and shows that you didn’t really do your research. Mittani never blamed alcohol for his actions, he admitted that it was stupid and wrong. He apologized for his actions both privately to the player the comments were about and publicly to the Eve community. You characterizing his apology as blaming it on alcohol is unfair. You posted an image about alcohol in Iceland which was made by an independent Goon member not by Mittani, that is unfair. He does not have a view that other alliances influenced CCP into making the decision, he accused other CSM members of taking advantage of the situation with regards to ingame politics, this comment is unfair. He accuses CCP of making the decision based on concern about receiving bad press at a time when they are debuting their new game Dust 514.

    RPS, I expect better from you. You guys are usually a good source of gaming news that stands out in a field where hype and misinformation is rampant but you’ve let me down.

  48. dsi1 says:

    Loving Mittani slamming Alec on Twitter.

    I love RPS but don’t mindlessly copy-pasta stories, especially from writers who are metagaming themselves :)

  49. AgamemnonV2 says:

    I keep saying it. Every now and then I see Eve comes out with a new and exciting update that makes me want to give it a shot. Then I hear a story about its gawful community and then I remember, “Ah, right. It’s troubling enough trying to hold people accountable for their actions in the real world–I’ll pass on the ass-hats that skate on “Internet freedom” who exhibit trollish behavior and are rewarded for it.”

    This entire bit just further proves that he isn’t just “role playing”. What he said he said with the comforting belief that he wouldn’t be scrutinized for being a horrible person. And when he caught wind that, wait a minute, people actually do mind a chairman being a complete monster, he did his best to play damage control. “Sorry, I was drunk.” The drink doesn’t turn people into their polar opposites, it just loosens the tongue to reveal their true nature. Hello Mel Gibson.

    Further “sincerity” was met with a nice apology (he said “I’m REALLY sorry” in an articulate way–everything is okay now!) and then him donating money he can make again in no time. All of this was done because he believed this would exempt him from rules he agreed to when he decided to pay for a subscription to Eve. And when the rules were enforced, what happened? He threw a tissy. The best part? He can’t decide whether he cares. He says it doesn’t bother him–that he can still run things without even being in the game, but he wants to lead a troll effort once his ban is uplifted. Because people who don’t care usually make a joined and concentrated effort to retaliate on the things they don’t care about!

    Truthfully he’s just not happy that the limlight is shining so brightly in his dastardly-bastardly eyes. That’s all the more prevelent when he’s calling out media organizations for running the same story across the board. “Waaah wah, one site already wrote about how I’m a terrible person, no need to further expose how much of a monster I really am!” Yep, that’s how you win the crowd over.

    Not that it really matters in the long run. He’ll still be a bastard long after this little stint dies down. Rest assured, he slept well that night he told folks to go and convince a player to commit suicide. The whole point about not having a conscience is that you don’t let little things like morality get in your way of having a good night’s sleep.

  50. techpops says:

    I’m left feeling really confused about this story and the comments. I’m missing something fundamental I think because I thought this Eve game was just an MMO with spaceships. I’m not really sure how this guy plays the game without even logging in and how he’s so important to a game where he’s just one subscriber. I would have thought that developers were the important ones and if this story had been centred around the lead programmer, I could understand it then.

    I won’t comment on what this guy did as I’m not really sure of the full story. Plenty of opinion already here in the comments from people who know far more about it than me. I just hope the person that was suicidal is getting on better now and that this hasn’t added even more pressure in their lives.

    • dsi1 says:

      He went from having no abnormal issues at all (people always got gripes ofc) with the Eve community to having a swirling shitstorm around him thanks to Goon’s enemies using him as a pawn to advance their own goals. Also the media.

      • 1stGear says:

        Mittani is the head of the Goonswarm Alliance, one of the largest and most powerful corporations in EVE. He was also the chairman of the Council of Stellar Management, a body of players elected by other players to speak directly to the developers about concerns and suggestions players have. Mittani is credited with turning the CSM from a pretty toothless organization into something much more unified and capable of dealing with the developers which showed during the recent “Monoclegate” when CCP made a series of pretty serious design and PR blunders. The CSM, and Mittani, were instrumental in rationally confronting the devs. Consequently, CCP apologized and has refocused their development efforts away from the factors that produced Monoclegate and towards the core gameplay of EVE. Prior to his comments at Fanfest, Mittani had been re-elected leader of the CSM by a landslide. Those two reasons are why, in the world of EVE, Mittani is a pretty important guy.

        He can “play” the game without logging in because more than any other MMO, EVE has an incredibly developed political metagame. Deals and negotiations made in chatrooms or over Skype can be every bit as important as massive fleets blowing each other up. Battles of words waged in public forums can decide wars while the contents of a corporation’s private forums can reveal delicious secrets. In Goonswarm, its a running joke that Mittani never actually logs in. This is because, frankly, he can do his job better if he’s not having to worry about the logistics of his own personal EVE character (This is why the 30-day ban is purely symbolic).

        There’s a lot of eagerness to drag Mittani down both because his comments were reprehensible and because Goonswarm has a LOT of enemies in EVE. The alliance, and its core corporation Goonwaffe, have a bad reputation developed by years of spying, ganking, griefing, and generally being really good at EVE Online while simultaneously not having very many weaknesses to exploit. I don’t know enough about high-level EVE politics to argue whether or CCP is actually being influenced by rival corps, but I’m willing to bet that most of the people jumping on this event have more interest in ruining Goonswarm than they do in the guy Mittani mentioned (Who hasn’t much commentary on the situation).

        Mittani’s anger at the gaming media arises from the extraordinary amount of fabrications that this case has produced, several of which could be seen in the original version of this very newspost. One of the principal ones is that Mittani gave out the player’s real name. This is false and could have been resolved by actually looking up the YouTube of the panel where Mittani made the comments. Part of it also comes from his detractors not being satisfied with anything he does at this point. He apologized, offered to resign as chairman, and spoke to and donated all his money to the victim. There are still a lot of people calling for blood. The comments about CCP throwing him under the bus likely come from his being banned and removed from the CSM entirely while CCP turns a blind eye to other incidents, like a Neo-Nazi running for the CSM.

        • Paxeh says:

          This. All of this.

          It’s also preposterous to see how much of this story has been reported without proper research by various gaming sites.

          • BluElement says:

            It’s also preposterous how many stupid people are trying to defend him.

      • pantognost says:

        No!
        In order to be truthful you should have wrote that he went and gained a person’s confidence in a very grind based game. He then proceeded to destroy virtual property that the aforementioned player had amassed over several months. And then proceeded to encourage the crowd of this game to intensify this kind of attempts against the same person in order to convince that player to commit suicide.