Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Augmented With First Patch

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided [official site] has received its first patch-me-do, now ready to be added via Steam. It’s not a biggun by any means, but should stop some of the more immediately annoying crashes people have experienced. They’ve also made some suggestions about improving performance by, well, telling you to switch off MSAA altogether.

So according to the patch notes, this update is primarily about preventing crashing, presumably with some sort of Icarus Landing. Deus Ex: Mankind Divided appropriate joke for you there. The fixes are:

• Fixed crashes caused by third-party programs interfering with the game.
• Fixed crash that occurred after viewing the intro videos.
• Fixed issue that could cause a crash at the end of the Prague intro scene.
• Fixed mouse invert setting not being displayed correctly in the options menu.

If that was what was bothering you, rejoice. If not, grumble for a little longer.

In an attempt to stem other grumbling, Eidos Montreal have taken the odd measure of suggesting that people seeing performance issues with recommended specs or higher make sure to entirely switch off MSAA anti-aliasing – the thing that makes diagonal lines look like diagonal lines and not staircases.

They say,

“We are seeing people reporting performance issues when playing the game on Very High/Ultra settings with MSAA set to 2x, 4x, or 8x. We would like to emphasize again that these options are very demanding. We recommend everyone that is running at recommended spec or higher to start with the High Preset and MSAA turned off, and then tweak the options to optimize your experience.”

This rather sort of doesn’t really seem good enough to me. MSAA is certainly system intensive, but I’m pretty sure most games don’t include it with the suggestion that no one ever use it. (Also, “High” is two steps below the top setting, “Ultra”, so I would really love to know what the hell system is required for Ultra?) Much better at this point would be a statement that clarifies what precisely would be necessary to use regular graphical features like MSAA they’ve included in their game, rather than suggesting those with machines above their recommended spec should never have expected to be able to take advantage of them in the first place.

Alec went into a lot more detail about performance issues this morning, and I can’t see Eidos’s response doing much to quell the fuming hordes. A little more honesty and clarity seems absolutely vital at this point. Also, let us sodding bloody well close the Tab menu with Tab in the next patch, you MONSTERS.

From this site

68 Comments

  1. Rodman1_r2 says:

    back in my day, “recommended spec” meant that a game would run well on normal settings, not on “high” or “ultra high.” While a system below “min spec” wouldn’t run at all.

    • Rodman1_r2 says:

      wouldn’t run at all, or would be unplayable on a system below “min spec”

      • lurkalisk says:

        The recommended specs are absolutely ridiculous if that’s what we’re talking about. I suppose it’s appropriate though, as top of the line hardware can’t even max this game with a decent framerate.

        • chiablo says:

          It’s unplayable on my 770 at 2560×1080 resolution. Even on low settings, I only max around 25 fps.

      • -Spooky- says:

        “min spec” is just a term. the game starts up, that´s it. and don´t expect much here ;)

  2. DanMan says:

    So, still no skippable intros/cutscenes? Blasphemy.

    • ScottTFrazer says:

      You can skip/interrupt any of the cutscenes that aren’t loading things in the background. You can tell if this is the case by looking for a progress bar in the lower right corner of the screen.

      It’s an interesting choice that some scenes can be skipped with the space bar while others require you to hit Escape and select “skip” from the menu.

      • Baron Bacon V says:

        The spacebar is used to skip CG cuts cents, and the pause menu is used to skip in engine cutscenes.

  3. TheMightyEthan says:

    I’m running it on a GTX 1080 and I can put everything on Ultra (actually a few things higher since Ultra doesn’t actually max everything out) except MSAA, which I have to turn down to 2x to get 60 fps, with 4x I can maintain 30 fps.

    • TheMightyEthan says:

      This is at 1080p, I’m going to try downsampling from 4k with no MSAA and see what that gets me, and will report back if I remember to.

      • Asbad says:

        The audacity you had to think that you could run this with a mere GTX 1080 using 4x or 8x MSAA settings and think that you could get the game above 30fps on 1080p. The sheer audacity! Better come back with a series of Titan Xs running in SLI or a series of Teslas and then run it at 720p, upscaled to 1080p. Then we’ll talk, as then you’re truly shown that you’re cyberpunk enough for the game.

        • TheMightyEthan says:

          Hey, I /can/ get 30 fps with 4x MSAA, just not with 8x. I get ~24 with 8x.

          Maybe 8x is for people who want a cinematic experience…

      • TheMightyEthan says:

        Nope, downsampled from 4k is slower than (as expected, but hey you never know) and doesn’t look as good as 4x MSAA + temporal AA in most situations. Though in a couple of scenes temporal AA has introduced weird ghosting on people’s faces, which the downsampling doesn’t do.

  4. Banks says:

    I’m having a lot of issues here. Very bad IQ, low framerate, FOV readjusting itself, crashes and HORRIBLE mouse input and general controls. I hope that get’s patched soon.

    Lovely game overall, Deus Ex is always great.

  5. Deano2099 says:

    “Also, “High” is two steps below the top setting, “Ultra”, which rather demands the question: what the hell system is required for Ultra?”

    Probably something that doesn’t exist yet or something out of the price range of normal people. Is that really such a bad thing? To make a game that’ll continue to improve graphically as technology improves and PCs get better? What’s the harm in it?

    If Medium or High look just as good as Ultra in other games, what’s the problem? That we can’t tell people our PC runs the game on the best settings at 60FPS?

    They explained it in the post Alec linked to earlier:
    “We also offer a Very High and Ultra preset aimed at users well above recommended spec or those who wish to trade framerate for image quality. When above recommended spec, even if you cannot use the Very High preset entirely, please experiment with individual settings at a higher quality, and see what settings work best for you!”

    They could easily have called High “Ultra”, dropped the other two higher graphic modes entirely and people would be talking about how well it runs and how pretty it is.

    C’mon guys, this is PC-master-race bullshit of the highest order and you’re normally above all that. You’re right in that they’d have been better off not doing it this way to avoid all the complaining, but that doesn’t mean the complaints are in any way valid. By that logic you’re also better off not including gay characters as people will kick up a fuss about that too.

    • John Walker says:

      I disagree – this isn’t about every single aspect being maxed out – this is about just switching MSAA on at all! That’s a whole different thing.

      • Zenicetus says:

        Yep, it’s an unusual requirement and definitely worth highlighting.

      • Deano2099 says:

        That’s a fair point: it is a bit weird that that one feature is a lot more intensive on this game than in others. Does it just have more diagonals? Or it’s optimised for the temporal AA setting?

        I’d certainly be intrigued to know the answer from a computer nerd perspective, but it does look fine with temporal AA to me anyway.

        It was more the bit in brackets which I quoted that I was taking issue with – though I guess it was in brackets…

        • Person of Interest says:

          Confused and barely-informed comments about MSAA:

          Most game engines these days use “deferred” rendering, which means the frame is rendered as many different layers which are then blended together. ( example: link to adriancourreges.com ) MSAA used to be cheap in older engines because there was only one step of the render process where those multiple samples (“MS” of MSAA) needed to be averaged together. Now it may need to be applied to multiple layers, or to more pixels (pixels that are identified as “possibly aliased” during rendering). DX:MD’s engine may be particularly unsuited for MSAA.

      • laiwm says:

        It’s definitely a bother, but I’m finding that temporal AA + “sharpen” eliminate almost all jaggies, apart from the odd time a chainlink fence comes into view.

      • MultiVaC says:

        Yeah, but to be fair it’s been pretty common for games to not even have any MSAA at all (including DX:HR, iirc). I wouldn’t be surprised if many dev teams don’t even bother implementing it simply because these are the results they get, performance-wise.

      • Anti-Skub says:

        MSAA is something only very high end machines should be using, it’s quality increase versus performance impact just is not worth it and it should be the first thing you sacrifice if your machine is struggling.

        So no, it’s not about that…it’s about exactly what Deano2099 said. Providing settings that take advantage of future hardware. All this complaining does is ensure that they wont provide us with those settings in the future…please stop it.

      • gpown says:

        Have you tried playing GTA 5 with MSAA? it halves the framerate in best cases. As explained in a below post, MSAA is a really expensive technique in current engines and you really shouldn’t be using it unless you have a lot of power to spare.

      • aircool says:

        Skyrim was a game that needed a super computer to run with everything on max when it came out.

        Now I can run it at max setting WITH 8xMSAA and framerates so high that I use adaptive vsync on half settings to cap the framerate at 72fps.

        So I guess that having options that will only be realistically viable a few years down the line has always been a thing. Didn’t the recent DOOM do something similar?

      • emotionengine says:

        To be fair though, the studio that handled the PC port, Nixxes, posted an announcement on the Steam forums before the game went live warning against the use of MSAA along with other performance tuning tips: link to steamcommunity.com

        These patch notes only repeat what the devs have previously stated. They encourage using TAA instead, which I personally think yields more than acceptable results, rather than the known highly inefficient resource hog that is MSAA. As others have stated, it’s actually a surprise that the option for MSAA is there at all in a modern graphics engine, especially if it employs deferred shading.

        • emotionengine says:

          If you want to know what exactly it is about MSAA that makes it a less than ideal AA technique and why postprocessing AA is the way forward, I recommend this excellent analysis and explanation by RPS reader FriendlyFire in their detailed comment here: link to rockpapershotgun.com

      • mukuste says:

        Which are these recent games which a) support MSAA (quite rare) and b) have small performance impact when you enable MSAA?

      • Simplex says:

        It’s not “just” MSAA. MSAA is extremely taxing on modern deferred rendering engines (and offers underwhelming payoff to boot), which is why it’s hardly every used in modern games these days.
        Nixxes made a mistake – they should have just never include MSAA support in the game and there would be no outcry an no ignorance-based dissapointment that enabling MSAA tanks the framerate.

        • Premium User Badge

          modzero says:

          there would be no outcry

          You’re new to the gaming community, aren’t you? I’m surprised there’s nobody here complaining about the lack of HOTAS support.

          • Simplex says:

            So please point me to “WHY IS THERE NO MSAA???????” posts for recently released games without MSAA support.

  6. Zanchito says:

    There’s definitely something strange going on. There’s literally no difference in NY rig turning high to low. Also, the effect is that framerate is sorta choppy-stuttery, but not in the same way as we you get 25 fps. Very weird indeed.

  7. geldonyetich says:

    Better to disable the MSAA anyway so the jaggies will enhance the edginess presented.

  8. ResonanceCascade says:

    I’m an optimization freak, so I spent a good 20 minutes changing settings around during the tutorial until the game hit the looks/performance sweet spot. Game hasn’t so much as hiccuped so far.

    Mouse felt fine after I turned Vsync off — always turn Vsync off (and limit the FPS in your graphics card options if you have screen tearing issues). Always.

    I guess there’s a discussion to be had over whether including a super-intensive feature like MSAA is a good idea or not, but I really feel like if you want to game on the PC, you should have a basic understanding of how to tweak the options to get the game running the way it should be on your personal system. It’s OK if some features are beyond the reach of your PC. Feature, not bug.

    Then again, everyone complained about how Crysis was “poorly optimized,” despite the fact that it was really just future-proofed with awesome tech. So I’m sure this is a losing battle.

    • Simplex says:

      “Mouse felt fine after I turned Vsync off — always turn Vsync off (and limit the FPS in your graphics card options if you have screen tearing issues). Always.”

      But if you completely disable vsync (both in game and in video card control panel), then the tearing will be visible, even if you limit fps.

  9. nimbulan says:

    The problem with MSAA is that the performance impact scales with the graphical complexity of the game and has only gotten more demanding with more recent advances in computer graphics. People still treat it like a medium-impact setting like it was 10 years ago which certainly isn’t the case anymore. I’m honestly rather surprised that any games still include it as an option. With as much performance as it saps these days, SSAA is looking like a better option.

    • Laurentius says:

      10 years ago ? MSAA also back then was the most demanding graphical option for graphics card. Read the tweak guides for like I don’t know, GTA:SA, MSAAx8 did to framerates exactly what MSAAx8 is doing for GTA5 now.

  10. Anti-Skub says:

    Hey John, can you please not jump on this bandwagon of “The game should run on ultra at 120FPS regardless of my specs!”. It is entirely reasonable to sacrifice 8xMSAA when you are running a brand new game on ultra at 2k resolution when you don’t have a bleeding edge computer.

    This complaining wont make games any more likely to release with better optimisation, what it will do is convince developers that they should strip out the high end options to stop people selecting them and then whining that they can’t run them, because hey, if they don’t provide us with settings that can utilise GTX1080s, then we can’t complain that they don’t work on our 560Tis.

  11. MultiVaC says:

    Sort of annoyed that they did nothing about the mouse acceleration. After already having made and then fixed the same stupid mistake in the last game I sort of hoped it would be a no-brainer.

    • MercurialJack says:

      That’s what I was hoping for from a patch, too. Why on earth isn’t this a simple on/off option?!

  12. The Sombrero Kid says:

    MSAA is a pretty crappy solution to the problem and if you’re running at 4K you’re putting unreasonable demands on you GPU. Clearly DXMD is bandwidth constrained and offers a far more efficient TXAA solution, if you think you know better and want to use MSAA, the option’s there but you obviously have to make sacrifices for those read/write multipliers.

    There are things to get annoyed about with this game but MSAA being taxing isn’t one of them.

    • aircool says:

      Why on earth would you want to run MSAA at 4K unless you’re looking to clog up your VRAM?

      I tried MSAA to see what it looked like, and to be honest, the poor people AA provided in the options, along with sharpening looks better.

  13. aircool says:

    Running on High with GTX970 @ 1080p and am having a great time. I turned off the three main culprits of slow framerates (MSAA, Volumetric stuff and Hardon Shadows) and getting great framerates.

    The benchmark runs at about 57fps average, but the in game framerate is much higher.

    Someone posted somewhere that you can get rid of mouse acceleration by setting the mouse sensitivity slider to zero ‘cos it’s actually the mouse acceleration slider but mislabelled. I can confirm that it does indeed remove mouse acceleration.

    I did a lot of farting about with the settings whilst running the benchmark, and most of the options (apart from the big three) only made a few fps difference here and there. You get a massive boost by turning down the resolution (eg, from 1920×1080 to 1600×900) as you’d expect so it’s no surprise that whacking everything on Ultra and playing in 4K is giving GTX1080 users crappy framerates and stutters (because you ain’t got enough VRAM for ultra settings and 4K).

    So yeah… I’m tooling about having lots of fun on my four year old PC and GTX970. In fact, my PC is so old that there isn’t a BIOS update new enough to recognise my GTX970. I have to wait 90 seconds for it to give up looking for a video card before it boots to windows.

    • MercurialJack says:

      “Someone posted somewhere that you can get rid of mouse acceleration by setting the mouse sensitivity slider to zero ‘cos it’s actually the mouse acceleration slider but mislabelled. I can confirm that it does indeed remove mouse acceleration.”

      Ahh, that makes sense! I was messing about with the ‘mouse sensitivity’ because it was way too high, and I had to knock it down to 6% before it felt reasonable, but it didn’t feel much less sensitive. Makes so much more sense that it’s an acceleration slider!

      • Menthalion says:

        Good to know it’s an acceleration slider, now they just have to rename that. Oh, and have an X and Y sensitivity slider so we can actually adjust that and set them to 1:1 ratio, so it will actually be playable. Bonus points for sensitivity setting for scopes as well.

    • mukuste says:

      Hardon Shadows

      *snigger*

    • Premium User Badge

      Qazinsky says:

      I read the same thing about the mouse sensitivity slider, but it very clearly lowers sensitivity when tested, I’d need to toss my mouse sideways across the room to make a decent 45 degree turn.

  14. aircool says:

    Also, anyone remember how much MSAA killed XCOM 2 (I think it was XCOM 2) as the auto detect in the game whacked it up to 8xMSAA.

    No one seemed particularly bothered about not being able to use MSAA.

  15. Sunjammer says:

    I don’t get this, John. MSAA, out of all the AA methods, is highly taxing. Unless things have wildly changed over the years, MSAA basically just means jittering the camera position and re-rendering N times to get more frame information to clean up edges. That’s multiple re-renders per frame in addition to all passes already being made, at whatever resolution you’re running at. I’m baffled MSAA is even a common option anymore given how much it clashes with rendering pipelines nowadays. Possibly cards like the 1070/1080 with their magical VR rendering shit I have no real understanding of can make MSAA more viable again but certainly not for Joe Regular Card.

    Howling and moaning about MSAA like this seems a bit silly to me. I’d rather ask why there just aren’t more AA method options.

  16. mitthrawnuruodo says:

    Eidos’ excuses are nonsensical. Even the dumbest gamer would know that lowering graphic options will increase performance. But the fact remains, this game runs much worse, looks much worse, AND requires a lot more system resources then most big budget games in the past few years.

    Where is all the extra horsepower going?

    • fish99 says:

      Not sure I agree, I can think of quite a few AAA game over recent years where there’s been complaints about performance – Rise of the Tomb Raider, Arkham Knight, Dead Rising 3, Dying Light, Fallout 4, Far Cry Primal, The Division, Dark Souls 3 etc.

      Also while I don’t own MD, the screenshots on Steam show very detailed environments.

  17. Laurentius says:

    MSAA was ALWAYS most taxing graphical option since I bought my first dedicated graphics card. Like what the hell is going on? Witcher 2 and Ubersampling in 2011 ? Hello ? Was there a gfx card back then that could run it at 1920 x 1200at 60 FPS ? I don’t think so.

  18. BobbyDylan says:

    Yeah, the same way I feel bad for Car Junkies talking about engines. Or Celebrity nuts talking about Kanye Kardashian.

  19. catmorbid says:

    MSAA, supersampling and other very taxing methods of anti-aliasing are there because they are an easy way to “future-proof” your game. In 10 years, you can run DX:MD with 8x MSAA on your 8k display and laugh at the awkward animations (they are really awkward), but at the moment of release? Nope. Don’t be stupid.

    Now that said, the game runs for me at 2560×1440 with GTX 1080 at a steady 60 fps. I started with all to ultra, then reduced shadows and the other shadows thingy and volumetric lights all by one step. And it looks gorgeus. The only thing that really bothers me is the awkward looking animations, especially the facial animations and out-of-sync lip-sync. Otherwise the game looks beautiful and runs smooth.

    • Zenicetus says:

      The lip sync is dreadful. My theory is that the sync was done for the French language version (Montreal studio, eh?), and that’s why it looks so bad in the English localization.

      • grrrz says:

        so you’re saying all the original writing of the game was done in french? I’m really not sure, Montreal is a completely bilingual city and most french speaking Quebeckers there speak english also (and not the other way around). but that would be interesting to know, I could play it in french.

        • Zenicetus says:

          I dunno, it’s just a theory. It’s also cutting the devs some slack if that’s what happened… i.e. the French version having better sync, and I don’t know if it does. Because otherwise, it just means that they can’t deliver an English localized version that looks anywhere near as good as other recent games with lip-sync-to-dialogue.

  20. SinnerNL says:

    My main gripe is not even the fact that with my GTX1080 Gigabyte EXTREME (all caps suggest that it should run like a racehorse on cystal meth) I have to turn down MSAA…

    But the fact that even with everything on Ultra (and yes the fps is horrendous), I’m not impressed by the graphics in any form… it looks like DE:HR with a minor HD remake slapped on. THAT combined with the awful FPS pisses me off.

    • Simplex says:

      “it looks like DE:HR with a minor HD remake slapped on”

      I think you forgot how DE:HR really looks and are comparing it with idealized version in your memory from when you played it.
      Kind of like this: link to i888.photobucket.com

      I am playing DE:HR DC right now with everything maxed out and it’s graphical fidelity is nowhere near Mankind Divided.
      Fire it up, you’ll see.

    • laiwm says:

      I started enjoying PC games more after I learned to start on medium/high settings and turn things up if there was room to, instead of starting on ultra and turning things down. The ultra setting in DXMD is not worth the trouble.

      And you’re definitely misremembering how DXHR looked – I’d say its ultra setting was equivalent to MD’s medium.

  21. grrrz says:

    well no hope for my geforce HD 5700 then. I don’t know on what kind of resolution people play these days but maybe those big fancy antialiasing options shouldn’t be turned on above 1080p resolution, and are suited for hardware that doesn’t exist yet? My 23″ monitor is still below HD though (1680*1050). I remember human revolution to be not that much taxing though comparing to the games of the time.