Rock, Paper, Shotgun

09/09/2008 at 09:31 MasterBoo says:

The problem is that Spore really deserves one star as its rating. One of the worst game I’ve played in years.

09/09/2008 at 09:33 toni says:

I cry for the poor, poor, poor amazon customers getting mislead. omg, you can’t prevent ppl from buying spore, it’s a act against GOD. how can it be that ppl judge a game and give it a rating based on the DRM it comes bundled with. who would have thought ? outrage.

09/09/2008 at 09:38 nabeel says:

I wonder how much actual impact this’ll make on Spore’s overall sales. Sure, Amazon is a huge distributor, but the power of the hype machine and the brand of EA and Will Wright will surely drive sales into the millions as planned.

nabeel

09/09/2008 at 09:40 itsallcrap says:

Does anybody actually go by Amazon ratings anyway? I mean, apart from in cases like these, almost everything is rated as excellent because it only gets rated by the people who bought it, and they like to think they bought something excellent.

I don’t think this is going to make much difference to anything, really.

09/09/2008 at 09:42 Jonas says:

I’m not sure, I mean I can see the points for or against. Amazon only has one rating, so if you think the DRM is bad enough to overrule any quality in the game itself, your only option is to give the game a bad overall rating. Similar to how, if the game came packaged in razorsharp metal spikes coated with poison (note: may be hyperbole), you’d be in your good right to rate it 1 star even if it’s a really good game.

09/09/2008 at 09:43 Lu-Tze says:

The angry internet men are here, and they’ve got a truck full of angry.

09/09/2008 at 09:45 skillian says:

Lots of people won’t know about the DRM issues, so those reviewers are doing less informed (potential) buyers a favour.

And yes, they’re trying to make a point too – good on them, the internet gives these people a voice. Except of course for Amazon UK, who have just been deleting all the user reviews.

09/09/2008 at 09:46 KindredPhantom says:

I just hope that they put in the reviews that the rating is in no effect a reflection of the quality of the game and it is just a protest again the “evil” DRM installed by the “evil” corporations.
Also i hope my copy of spore that i ordered from play.com on Thursday arrives today, it would make a good birthday present since today is my birthday.

09/09/2008 at 09:47 Bobsy says:

Agreed. It’s a spiteful and destructive attitude, but they do actually have a point. I’m stuck at the moment unable to play Spore because of the DRM.

09/09/2008 at 09:51 Jonas says:

Happy birthday, KindredPhantom :)

I would like to politely inform you that I find your extensive use of quotation marks uncalled for. I certainly don’t like EA’s fascistic and distrustful DRM scheme, as all it achieves is to inconvenience honest consumers such as myself (I have in fact bought and paid for Spore) while the pirates are the only ones who don’t have to put up with its crap.

Meanwhile, I do not believe EA are evil, simply that they are woefully wrong about how best to prevent people from acquiring their game without paying.

09/09/2008 at 09:53 no says:

First, how can you say it’s a small but vocal group . . . of 1,200 reviewers? That doesn’t sound very small to me. Especially when you consider that every person that bothered to place a review represents many more people who feel the same way and did not bother to review.

As to being hateful? Screw you. I’ve been an Amazon customer for almost eight years and I spend a LOT of money there. I easily spend more money at Amazon than any other place in the world, except my apartment leasing office to whom I pay rent every month. I spend thousands and thousands of dollars at Amazon every year.

I’m also a very avid gamer. I’ll be being at least a dozen games in September alone and when I go to the game store, it’s hard for me to find a game that doesn’t totally suck *and* that I don’t already own.

Finally, DRM is part of Spore. It is part of the product my money is buying. I have EVERY RIGHT to leave a review. I paid for the Creature Creator and played it. I pre-ordered Spore months in advance. I was even going to buy a second copy (because Spore only lets ONE person have an account per purchased copy).

THEN, I found out that Spore used SecuROM and that it would limit the number of installations (and we know how hardware-based activation has worked in the past, right?). And I decided that I no longer wanted the product. It will arrive by UPS from Amazon later today (Tuesday the 9th) and I will be returning it immediately, because I don’t want to deal with or support this kind of drastic DRM.

How can you say I’m being hateful or that I somehow don’t deserve to share my viewpoint? I am an active, valuable, paying customer of EA and Amazon and a fan of Will Wright. But I refuse to contribute to or support over the top DRM schemes. I have ever right to leave a review regarding my reasons for disliking the product and returning it. And I don’t need to play the actual game (though I played the Creature Creator) to leave a comment about the DRM aspect of the game. It’s not like I’m commenting on the game play without having played it or having any knowledge of it. I’m commenting on another aspect of the same product that I *DO* have knowledge of and experience wth.

Get off your damned high horse, already.

09/09/2008 at 09:58 Mang says:

No one cares about DRM.
If you have problems with it, have you tried getting a better computer?

09/09/2008 at 10:01 Jonas says:

And also it would be far easier for me not to purchase FIFA and Need for Speed out of protest as I have no interest in those games anyway. Spore, on the other hand, is a must-play for me.

09/09/2008 at 10:08 Howard says:

Lots of angry internet men on both sides it seems…
While I agree with the hatred towards over zealous DRM I do gotta ask: Why not just use a crack? Now steady there folks! I am not saying pirate the thing, just use a crack, one of the many that came out a few days before launch, that let you play Spore but minus the DRM. Seems like an obvious solution to me…
As to those who state that this kind of protest does more harm than good in the fight against DRM I would be interested to hear what you think is a GOOD way of making our voices heard? Complaining to EA is obviously pointless as they have made it very clear what they think of their customers in the past. Complaining to the studio/designers who made the game is also a waste as they just raise their hands and declare their innocence naming the publisher as the one who chose the DRM.
What exactly can we do in protest other than not by the game (and that answer is somewhat more childish than posting bad scores on Amazon)?

09/09/2008 at 10:10 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Ragnar

You don’t only buy the gameplay, you buy a package which contains gameplay, manual, DRM, bonus material, etc. If the DRM causes so much problems for you that you can’t enjoy the game, then why is it a problem to rate it a 1?

How many of those reviews are based on enjoyment rather than the herd mentality of boycotting something based on the sole grounds it has DRM? If people believe such anti-piracy methods are distasteful and presumably damaging to one’s computer, then by all means vent against it. I don’t support them either, and see merit in making public outcries.

But therein lies the problem of rating a game based on the problems it caused for “you”. When you explicitly downgrade a videogame’s rating because of DRM then you’re missing the point. Because it’s not about the game, it’s about the backwards anti-piracy software the company decided to use. And Amazon commentaries are not analogous to a digital coup d’etat, no matter what these kids think.

Worst of all is how these reviews are both perceived and constructed – many Amazon costumers gloss over the reviews and go straight for the ratings and thus have no idea of their context, but those willing to read a review will not find any explanation that this may be a group effort to boycott the game on specific grounds. In short, they not only fail to properly explain the why, they also don’t seem to care about doing so. All they get is “OMG DRM IS EVIL” from everyone, without being told that DRM may not even have a negative impact on their experience.

I’d call them a ravenous pack except packs work together – this is just a disinformation campaign perpetuated by ignorants.

09/09/2008 at 10:13 The Hammer says:

By all means campaign against DRM sensibly, but this is not it. Spore is a big budget PC game, thats original IP, and pretty bug free from what I can see. It’s also quite good fun. Great job in persuading EA that “it’s not worth doing any more PC games, the PC gamers just try to sabotage any game we release for the platform”.

Indeed. The most important PC game release of the year not relating to MMOs, and cheap tricks like rating the game by a totally unfair marks to overwhelm the fair ones happens. This is not a good case from the anti-DRM lobby.

Additionally, SPORE BACKLASH HAS STARTED!

09/09/2008 at 10:15 Jonas says:

Diogo, it seems to me that what you’re criticising is a failing in the concept of user reviews as such, rather than this particular event. Users will always rate the game based on their own experiences. Even professional reviewers will mostly be writing about their own experiences with the game, I don’t know any sites or publications that use focus groups to review games.

09/09/2008 at 10:19 Zuhtu says:

That’s why I pirate my games.

09/09/2008 at 10:23 n3utr0n says:

Never realised Spore had restrictive DRM. Cheers angry internets men, think I’ll save my money for Galciv instead.

09/09/2008 at 10:25 YggradsilHugger says:

I have good games that don’t work because of the DRM. I have good games that I don’t install because the DRM messes up my system. Not buying good games with aggressive DRM seems like a sensible next step.

BTW: I’m not angry, just disappointed.

09/09/2008 at 10:29 Jonas says:

Yeah but that’s still terrible. That is a massive bother, and by that point you’re frankly better off just using a crack. And when it’s easier to crack a game than reinstall it, there is a problem, in my humble opinion.

EDIT: Ignore my paranoia, EA does indeed have a department – and a support line – in Denmark. Sorry.

09/09/2008 at 10:31 Koldun(as) says:

The funny thing is those DRM nonsenses didn’t stop pirates much at all. I don’t know how much it was from release until a crack appeared but I suspect it’s really small amount of time

09/09/2008 at 10:32 Mark Stephenson says:

Apropos of nothing, I was gearing up to be an Internet Angry Man over Spore. The first 3 sections made me feel like I had abused gamer syndrome and had been violently “black and whited” again. Section 4 made me feel like GTA4 had lurched back into my life again leaving a big steaming poo in my 360. I had succumed to the marketing of shit games again I thought. The self loathing was rising. What was it about me that made me look forward to shit games?

I even thought about reactivating my LiveJournal to write some poetry.

Then I got my spangly spaceship!

ZOMFG! WTF! Like …. totally! Woot Vroom Vroom! I’m sterilizing the cosmos from high altitude. Run Run Little Wabbit type things! EAT PLUTONIUM DEATH YOU DISGUSTING ALIEN WEIRDOS!

Sorry about that. Just fancied discussing the game for a second.

09/09/2008 at 10:34 cullnean says:

must not comment…..

09/09/2008 at 10:36 Mort says:

As this game is apparantly so ‘progressive’ and ‘excellent’ and as such ZOMGAWESOME, the hordes will descend on Amazon and correct the score then?
Or do only angry internet men review games on Amazon now?

09/09/2008 at 10:38 Shadout says:

In a perfect world Amazon might be the wrong place to rant about the DRM. Instead people would go somewhere else to discuss the issues of DRM, and potential buyers would read it and take a decision based on it.
But lets be honest, mot buyers wont even know about the DRM on spore, and as such, a place like Amazon is much better to inform people about it, than any random webpage would be.
Wrong or even childish? Maybe, but surely more effective than most other ways to show the hate against such DRM systems.

Companies should learn that crappy DRM implementations are indeed crappy!

Sadly I doubt EA will get the point, I expect them to throw out a press release stating how much the game got pirated in a few months (which might or might not be true, the DRM issue isnt really about pirates (who should all burn in hell etc etc), but more about annoying those people who actually bought the product. People who steal will find a way to get it no matter the DRM).

09/09/2008 at 10:41 Seniath says:

@The Hammer: I for one welcome our backlash overlords.

09/09/2008 at 10:45 Mang says:

I heard it was just one guy posting them all.

09/09/2008 at 10:47 Duncan says:

BTW – apparently EA got Amazon UK to delete *ALL* of Spore’s user reviews… maybe under the guise of “these reviews were posted before the game was available to buy, so must be falsified” :-/

Ho hum.

09/09/2008 at 10:48 The Poisoned Sponge says:

I haven’t read every single comment so if this has been mentioned before then sorry for repeating it. This DRM is quite obviously not to stop pirates; the game was pirated before release day. What it is is to stop you reselling the game in used game stores.

Spore pretty much has piracy protection built in with the sharing of user content. Without it the game is rather dull and unimaginative, but with other people’s stuff gracing your universe it can be very entertaining. Without that the game is somewhat crippled. So why bother with DRM? Because EA doesn’t want you making money off something you’ve paid them for. They want everyone to buy a new copy of the game. Thus the install limit.

09/09/2008 at 10:49 Tom says:

“And I, for one, wont be buying spore if I don’t have a mean of removing the drm.”

Same here…Plain simple.

Spore is ‘defective by design’, people should know about that, especially those who don’t know anything about drm or piracy or morals.

09/09/2008 at 10:54 DiGi says:

OffTopic: Where/how can I rate this story with one star? :D

09/09/2008 at 10:55 SwiftRanger says:

Alec is absolutely right, this kind of DRM is not good but a boycot won’t help at all. Complaining in a sensible manner will. All EA PC games seem to include this protection, even the upcoming Red Alert 3.

Also, Spore is a good game for what it tries to do, people who expected five full games are obviously in for a disappointment.

09/09/2008 at 10:58 Zeewolf says:

“A progressive, excellent game could get sunk because of it, and we’ll end up with more licensed tripe instead.”

Agreed, and I’ve been concerned about this for ages now. Another example is all the people who insist on turning every discussion about games such as Trackmania or Space Rangers 2 into a discussion of Starforce, and actively trying to prevent people from buying these genuinely brilliant games because of their copy protection (TM doesn’t use SF anymore, but still).

It’s very sad. These are the kind of games that should be celebrated, and instead some very angry people on the internet keep trying to destroy them.

09/09/2008 at 11:00 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@NegativeZero:

Protesting outside retailers and official (or fan-based) forums has a higher chance of raising awareness than in Amazon.

09/09/2008 at 11:01 weegosan says:

or perhaps EA will just do the normal thing of asking for a bit of corporate solidarity and get their:

delete from ratings where date > “start of flash mob rating storm” and < “end of flash mob rating storm”

and it will all be for nothing.

09/09/2008 at 11:08 Jonas says:

Kelder, I’m pretty sure that is exactly what I said. So uh… yes.

Zeewolf, Spore is not going to “get sunk” no matter what. It’s apparently already #1 on several sales lists.

09/09/2008 at 11:10 rocketman71 says:

I agree with giving 1 star to Spore because of the DRM, same as I agreed with the guy that gave 0/10 to TrackMania ¿Sunrise? because of StarForce (despite the fact that the TrackMania games are some of the best games *ever*). DRM has gone too far.

Not that it will have any effect in its sales, though.

09/09/2008 at 11:10 Larington says:

Its comical in a way, I seem to be one of the few people around who has decided hes not actually interested in Spore, and not even because of the DRM… But yeah, its ridiculous, commerce is supposed to be about letting people buy things and do whatever the hell they want with them and DRM like this is contrary to that in a big way.

The Poisoned Sponge makes a very good point by the way, this seems to be more of an anti-resale trick than it is an anti-piracy trick, especially considering that its made absolutely **** all difference to the pirate community, to them its nothing more than another hurdle to overcome and they inevitably do.

What concerns me is that folks who aren’t technically minded and bought the game will be very upset when they get such surprises as ‘letting their child/children play the game only to find that the install is user/account specific and you’d have to buy multiple copies just to play the game in the same family’ – Now that is over the top.

09/09/2008 at 11:13 cliffski says:

All this will achieve is Spore 2 on XBox only. You *DO* realise that every console has hard-wired DRM yes?
This is just more proof to the suits that the PC market is more trouble than it’s worth. This saddens me massively, as I love PC games and don’t like consoles at all. I’ll always make PC games, but will EA? Activision? I want Sim City 5!

On the plus side, it makes my games look better because they are happily DRM-free :D.

09/09/2008 at 11:14 cliffski says:

“yeh i men’t the people that are acting like ea will only let you install this game 3 time in your life and then take it away.Its a terrable drm solution certenly but most people seem to be confused as to how it works”

so are you. you can uninstall the game and get that install back. And even then, you can phone them up and request more as I understand it.

09/09/2008 at 11:15 Mr Pink says:

Is it me or does spore have the best anti piracy measure in that you have to be logged in to access other peoples creations, and i see that as the whole point of the game. Playing it without that feature is worthless.

crozon: I think you have a point there. Obviously the ultimate anti-piracy measure is games like WoW, where you have to be logged in to play. While it isn’t as strong as that with Spore, anyone who pirates it is going to have a really sub-standard experience without other people’s creations.

Had they released without DRM, wouldn’t this have put them in a similar situation to Stardock and Valve, who discourage piracy by rewarding their customers rather than using DRM? Obviously we’ll never know the answer, but I wonder whether that would have prevented a lot of piracy anyway?

09/09/2008 at 11:19 lukasz says:

In past three months I reinstalled windows twice.
first was because of new hdd
second was because i f*cked up registry beyond repair
so if spore was released three months ago I would already used up all my quota. and I’ll be formatting my system in December/January.

I have no problems with steam. I reinstalled hl2 dozens of times on many different computers (on three mine and I also lend my account to few friends). I also didn’t bother with using my discs, last time so I just downloaded it. much more convenient (3.5 years after I purchased the game)

EA’s drm is shit.

09/09/2008 at 11:20 skillian says:

yeh i men’t the people that are acting like ea will only let you install this game 3 times in your life and then take it away.Its a terrable drm solution certenly but most people seem to be confused as to how it works

Well, that is EA’s fault. They don’t mention the limitations in the ads, on the Amazon product details page or apparently even on the back of the box.

The reason why is obvious – EA are ashamed of the DRM on the game, and would rather people didn’t know about it.

09/09/2008 at 11:21 Colthor says:

Write to Trading Standards? That’s a good idea, can somebody less lazy than me do that? They might not care, but you don’t know unless you try. Maybe something about reducing the use of second-hand copies.

I haven’t rated the game on Amazon, but I can’t get angry at the people who rated it one. Sorry. The copy protection has put me off buying it (as with Mass Effect and the forthcoming Red Alert 3), as much as I might want the game. That sounds like grounds for a low rating to me.

09/09/2008 at 11:26 framstick says:

People need also to accept- that a lot of us just think spore is quite a poor game- feels like the sort of wii game i avoid to me….
hope it fails as they have well and truly talked to much shit about it that a lot of uk and us journos seem to have swallowed hook line and sinker. i have half a hope that edge or someone main stream -like one of the papers- has a proper gander before reviewing

09/09/2008 at 11:26 Bjørn Stærk says:

1200 is a large number when they’re random people who felt like leaving some feedback at Amazon, a small number when they’re (clearly) organized.

I understand both sides here, but I lean in the direction of “calm down, please”. This DRM thing is not going to ruin the gaming experience of a lot of people, just a few unlucky ones. If that seems too much, think of how many won’t be able to enjoy the game for other, “normal” reasons, such as poor hardware or bugs. You don’t see 1500 people leaving 1′s on Amazon just because of a few bugs, people _expect_ that, even though it’s objectively a far larger problem.

Anyway, it’s interesting that they chose Spore to use as a battleground. My guess is that this is because it’s a well-hyped game with casual appeal and “serious” ambitions. This rubs a lot of gamers the wrong way, they’re predisposed to “sacrifice” it for ideology. I don’t think this would happen with a more normal game aimed at the gaming mainstream.

09/09/2008 at 11:31 Acosta says:

Angry internet men attacks again. I have a message for you:

a) EA don’t give a toss.
b) 99% of the people who are going to buy Spore don’t give a toss.
c) Will Wright don’t give a toss about one, 1000 or 10000 persons not buying the game because the DRM.

EA is offering a service with three licenses (probably more in some months I guess). You can shout that is actually a product, that is yours, that you put your hard earned money on it and that you have the right given by god himself to do whatever you want with it. Fine, but EA is not offering you that and they want to try to make you following their terms. Now is up to you following them, rejecting, or if you feel all revolutionary, agreeing to broke them after (there is a fourth opinion, that is called being a hypocrite, but I’m not going to bother with that one).

Big deal indeed.

09/09/2008 at 11:36 Meat Circus says:

@Acosta:

I hear you brother. Of course, we all know that it’s irrelevant to the angries too, who WOULD HAVE PIRATED IT ANYWAY.

They just use the foolish DRM as an excuse to try to convince us that piracy is acceptable.

09/09/2008 at 11:44 Meat Circus says:

@Dinger:

“Oh wait, you mean I don’t own it, I just license it on your terms? So, if I copy it illegally, I’m not really stealing it, am I?”

No, you don’t. And no, you’re not. Copyright is not property, and cannot be stolen.

Does anybody expect Amazon to allow the reviews to stand if EA puts on a little pressure? Cos I don’t.

Still, EA will be rubbing their hands with glee at all the free publicity. I expect an Amazon sales spike shortly.

09/09/2008 at 11:47 Meat Circus says:

@Mungrul:

No, it’s not. It’s an 0844 number in the UK, which is a number translation service charged at standard local rate. No revenue sharing.

09/09/2008 at 11:52 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Shadowmancer:

“should DRM have a negative impact” you can only install the game x amount of times plus internet needs to be on constantly to authenticate your game all the time, if thats not a negative impact then what is?

You can install the game as many times as you want. After the installs “run out”, you need to call someone. Yes, not particularly convenient and certainly not free, but certainly better than most costumer support situations I’ve had to deal with in my life. Besides, just how many times do people plan on uninstalling and installing Spore? Seriously.

And this still dodges the issue somewhat. Does DRM have any ill effect on Spore’s celular stage? Does it mess around with the space stage? Do you need to be online to get by in the tribal phase? That is what I’m trying to get at. DRM is ridiculous and needs to be stamped on. But once you’ve gone through installation and you fire up the game… How does the game play? Most people won’t know, because all they’re reading is FUCK DRM RWAAAR.

That’s a disservice to both tthe game, the readers and to anyone willing to genuinely solve the DRM problems.

09/09/2008 at 11:56 Zeewolf says:

Jonas: No, Spore is not going to get sunk by this, though that is what many people are hoping.

But other games, from smaller companies, are getting hurt by the same kind of tactics from the same kind of people. Just look at those nasty “boycot starforce”-sites, most of the games listed there are from smaller developers. And a lot of them are very good, and a heck of a lot more interesting than what’s being published by the big guys.

When people decide to go bananas over copy protection, it’s games like Space Rangers 2 and TrackMania that suffer the most.

09/09/2008 at 12:06 mrmud says:

Frankly not enough people really care about freedom (of being able to install your game as often as you like) for it to have a big enough impact on EA by just not buying the game.

Loosing cash is the only way that EA is going to change their mind and this is one of the best ways to attain this goal. As such I wholeheartedly agree with it.

09/09/2008 at 12:12 Guido says:

@Jim Rossignol: “Are you saying you missed out on these games because of the way their DRM worked?”

Yes, I did. What a pity, right? I’m not really consequent in places though because I’m actively using Steam meanwhile (for TF2 among other things)…

Playing the things anyway would mean that I’d have to pirate them, and while I might maybe have done such things in the past I don’t anymore, out of principle.

09/09/2008 at 12:15 Seniath says:

@Po0py: You sure? I installed it fine with Daemon running.

09/09/2008 at 12:18 Ragnar says:

@Diogo Ribeiro

I’ve had to deal with in my life. Besides, just how many times do people plan on uninstalling and installing Spore? Seriously.

A lot of times. If this is a good game, I might want to play it in 10, 15 years. If I reinstall it once a year (due to reinstalls of windows or hard drive crashes or computer upgrades). I frequently play old games and it would be too big of a hassle to do this if I were to call some support line every time I want to install my games.

09/09/2008 at 12:26 grumpy says:

I don’t think it’s a problem. Spore is doing fine. And if it doesn’t? Perhaps EA will get the message, at least. ;)

Anyway, you don’t have to look very closely at the Amazon reviews page to see *why* people are giving it 1 star. It’s not like people are writing reviews saying “The game sucks”. They’re saying pretty clearly “You’re not buying a game, you’re renting it. Install it 3 times, and it’s useless”
I think that’s the important thing. Simply rating the game down, making it look like a bad game, would be the wrong way to attack this problem. But taking a highly visible website, and writing *why* it is being rated down. That’s excellent.

Besides, just how many times do people plan on uninstalling and installing Spore? Seriously.

Let’s see. A Windows reinstall a year. Perhaps a computer upgrade every two years. Three years then, and I’ve run out. Maybe a lot less. I hadn’t planned on my mobo dying last month, but that forced me to upgrade and reinstall everything.

Of course, we all know that it’s irrelevant to the angries too, who WOULD HAVE PIRATED IT ANYWAY.

They just use the foolish DRM as an excuse to try to convince us that piracy is acceptable.

[I think shouting abuse is the same thing as debate]

No, I don’t want to pirate it. If that was what I wanted, I’d have pirated Spore on *release day* Because, you know, there was a crack out by then despite the DRM. I’d certainly have pirated Mass Effect, since it’s been out for months. DRM doesn’t hurt those who want to pirate. It hurts me, because I’m dumb enough to a) pay for my games, and b) expect them to work two years from now.

And honestly, Spore is the *perfect* game to complain about DRM in.
1: It’s not a small indie project. It’s not like Wright will be in financial trouble if they lose 2000 sales. (Both because it’s EA, rather than Wright, who’s paying the bill, and, because it’s going to sell like wildfire anyway, and unlike AwesomeIndieGame, a few thousand copies less means *nothing* for Spore.
2: DRM isn’t even *necessary* for Spore.
2a: It’s targeted at casual gamers, who don’t pirate games much.
2b: It has a major online component, which means they could just tie your account to your cd key, and you’d be forced to play offline if you pirated it.
2c: the DRM employed here is truly crippling. It’s not just “we install hidden drivers you never notice”, or “you need to activate the software online”. It’s “you probably won’t be able to play the game two years from now, unless you call us and beg for a reactivation”

No, I don’t think the Amazon thing is out of proportion. I think it’s pretty much perfect. I can’t imagine a better game to target with it, and I can’t think of a better way to draw attention to the problem.

Are you saying you missed out on these games because of the way their DRM worked?

I did. Well, I missed out on Mass Effect, and if I’d known in advance, I’d have chosen to miss out on Bioshock as well.
HL2? Nope, I don’t mind the DRM there. It doesn’t prevent me from reinstalling the game. Sure, I’m screwed if Steam’s servers go down, so it’s far from perfect, but at least until then I can play the game just fine. Unlike with Mass Effect and Spore. That’s where I draw the line. I can live with DRM, as long as it doesn’t prevent me from playing a game I bought. It mustn’t prevent me from playing today, tomorrow, next year or a decade from now. Not even if I reinstall the game every single day. (Of course, wear and tear on the DVD might cause a problem then, but the DRM itself should not be a further limitation)
Or at least, if I’m only leasing the game for a couple of years, I want a reduced price.

And I know several others who have missed out on one or more games because of the restrictive DRM. You sound like this surprises you?

And one thing I think a lot of you are missing is this: Not everyone speaks english. And not everyone speaks english as their first language. Not everyone relishes the thought of calling a callcenter in India, to speak to speak english to a guy whose accent is even worse than yours, just to be able to play the game you *bought*. Do they have supporters speaking every language, covering every country? I doubt it.

Hell, given the quality of the Danish translation in Spore’s creature creator, it’s pretty clear that any non-english support you’re going to get is half-assed at best.
I don’t even know who I’m going to get the pleasure of talking to if I phone them. Do I get redirected to a callcenter in India, speaking (mostly) english? Do they have one in Sweden, covering all of Scandinavia? Norway, perhaps? IBM insists on giving me german support, for some reason. Or I *could* lucky, and they have a support center in Denmark, and they’ll still have it when I need it.
(Ok, so it’s not a huge problem for me, assuming that whoever they are, they can speak english in addition to danish, but not everyone are confident in their english skills)

09/09/2008 at 12:35 Colthor says:

I hear you brother. Of course, we all know that it’s irrelevant to the angries too, who WOULD HAVE PIRATED IT ANYWAY.

They just use the foolish DRM as an excuse to try to convince us that piracy is acceptable.

So, are you going to back up your assertions with some kind of evidence, or just be all angry?

09/09/2008 at 12:36 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Ragnar:

Yes, although in the large spectrum of videogamer tendencies, how many people find themselves in the same position as you? Enough to warrant a change? I’m not one to use anecdotal evidence – just the anecdotes themselves, mind – but I’m terrified of the way some of my peers handle their PCs. Hard drive formats once a month? Periodical operating system and software reinstalls? To me, that’s unbelievable. And has been unnecessary, no matter how pundits have tried to spun it my way – even with the random crash. The only major crash I’ve had actually happened this last week, where my gaming PC all but died, to the point where it won’t even let me format my HD. But before it, I can only remember one time where it had severe problems, and that was because of a virus – which, incidentally, was also fairly quick and painless to deal with.

And in terms of hard drive installation life, I’ve always had a tendency to keep games installed for years (since my HDs don’t seem to fail as much as they do other people). It’s certainly not an excuse – as this would make me no better than the very viewpoints I’m somewhat criticizing – but in general terms, most gamers don’t have as many tech problems as the rest. Difficulties? Yes, but not rampant, head on crashes. And their interest in games probably does not go for long as ours do. You or me would reinstall a game we loved in the next 10 or 15 years – they most certainly would not, as the memory had been replaced by some other flavor of the month. Unfortunately (or not, depending on where one comes from), part of Spore’s audience is casual like that.

So, your reasons are good. They’re as good reasons as any, really, and Bioshock certainly seems to be an object lesson; but how many games use this medieval protection schemes? Again, enough to warrant a change?

09/09/2008 at 12:43 NikRichards says:

To be honest I think the DRM issue is a moot point with this game.

It’s a fun toy, but due to a lack of gameplay meatyness I certainly wont need 3 Installs. Doubt I’ll need 2.

09/09/2008 at 12:44 araczynski says:

meh, i personally have nothing against these types of tactics. if people detest the drm they should have the right to say so.

personally i think the game is weak, with or without any drm, and i’m not going to bother with it.

although i do wish him luck with good sales/milkings, as they made the effort to create something unique, which is a rarity in today’s age of EA crap sports titles and general copy/paste games.

09/09/2008 at 12:54 Colthor says:

@Meat Circus:
The assertion I don’t like is that the AIMs wouldn’t've bought the game anyway. I doubt there’s any way of actually measuring it, but as Nallen said it seems the pirates are the people who don’t have anything to worry or complain about, they still get theirs fine. Which makes it worse, I suppose; EA get some negative publicity, have to pay SecuROM, lose a few sales, but all for naught.

@Diogo Ribeiro:
You never replay games a few years later?

09/09/2008 at 12:59 CitizenErazed says:

Can’t believe I read all that. Okay, a few points.

One: If you’re reformatting your system every few months, you need to look at how you manage your system. For comparison’s sake, I run a dual-boot system, and I’ve /never/ had to reinstall windows due to data failure. It just takes a little maintenance.

Two: If you do have a system failing every few months, look at your hardware. PSU? Dodgy mobo? In the meantime, at least do what any sensible user should be doing, and keep windows and your data on seperate partitions.

Three: Those two aside, Windows XP has (as has been pointed out) exactly the same DRM, and I’ve never seen anyone boycott that. It’s very easy to boycott something that wouldn’t affect your life – let’s see some of those do it when it’s something that makes your gaming possible.

Four: Okay, let’s move on from there. If you seriously hate the DRM, and aren’t going to buy the game because of it, fair enough. But, instead of an unfocused DRM WILL KILL YOUR MOTHER AND RAPE YOUR FATHER rant on Amazon, how about focused complaints to EA? Okay, all well and good they might not listen, but a thousand emails appearing within the space of two or three days will give them pause. If they hear about a thousand potential customers who will not buy their product due to the restrictions, that’s £30,000 they’ve potentially lost. Small beans maybe, but there’s probably someone somewhere within EA who recognises the potential future revenue there.

I do have one other point, but it escapes me.

09/09/2008 at 13:03 Tom says:

This has been posted before here, but I think it kinda makes clear why drm needs to be stopped before it conquers the Europe/World like fascism did. I mean I can live without playing spore, but RA3?!?

- You will be able to install and play on up to five computers.

And then:

- Life happens. I know it’s unlikely, but for those unlucky few who install the game and have their machines nuked (virus, OS reinstall, major hardware upgrade, etc.) five times, EA Customer Service will be on hand to supply any additional authorizations that are warranted. This will be done on a case-by-case basis by contacting customer support.

Yeahh, thats sooo unlikely(Both that windows pcs break, and that ea support will help). And guess what, I have 6 pcs, and I want to play my perfectly legal copy of insert game tile on all six of them. Cause I kind of own them, like my shoes, which I wear on all 4 of my feet.

09/09/2008 at 13:03 Dinger says:

By definition, Windows is a hard drive memory leak pretending to be an OS. To run it well, you need to reinstall the OS regularly. Sure, we don’t do it, but we should.

So Diogo, by your last post (“If between one to three years, you believe you may not have finished, that’s not a problem with the game” ), you’re admitting that EA’s DRM amounts to a long-term rental.

Those little “fact boxes” in reviews should specify not only publisher, developer and genre, but MSRP, online prices, and DRM scheme. That way, reviews will do their part in indicating not only who made the game, but just what exactly it is they’re selling. They can use the space freed up by removing the number score if they like.
Heck, as many other aspects have their own symbology, how about some for DRM:
Smiley Face: No DRM.
Marijuana Cigarette: ShareWare
Peace Symbol: FreeWare
Briefcase with Radioactive symbol on the side: Activation code
Red Telephone: Online Activation
Van with antennae and “Flowers By Irene” painted on the side: monitors your computer use and conflicts with some programs. (Alternatively: Mother-in-Law)
Hitler Face: repeated, mandatory online verification
Game Box in Toilet: Limited Installs.

09/09/2008 at 13:04 Nallen says:

Why bother, then. Seriously. Spore is a lot more casual and friendly than some of the stuff that gets pumped into the PC, and quite agreeably shorter in a way, too. If between one to three years, you believe you may not have finished it, I’d suggest that it is not a problem with the game or its DRM.

What a farce of a response. If you buy a game it is none of anyone’s concern how you decide to play it!

Saying that DRM having an impact on how you choose to use a licensed piece of software is your own fault really is a ball crunchingly bad argument.

09/09/2008 at 13:10 The Sombrero Kid says:

it’s EA’s fault for taking part in a capitalist democracy, the main way consumers get what they want is by voicing their opinion and voting with their wallets, EA is susceptible to this is because of a system they helped create, and consumers only right of expression is to convince people not to spend money, in capitalism you need to compete for the the consumers, therefore EA needs to compete with these people to get their rating up or find a way to appease them.

09/09/2008 at 13:10 grumpy says:

One: If you’re reformatting your system every few months, you need to look at how you manage your system. For comparison’s sake, I run a dual-boot system, and I’ve /never/ had to reinstall windows due to data failure. It just takes a little maintenance.

Data failure is more like bad luck. If a harddrive fails, you’re screwed. (Unless you’re running RAID, which few people are). I don’t see what that has to do with maintenance. Sometimes, hardware fails. Not often, but it happens, and the problem with it is that it’s unpredictable.

at least do what any sensible user should be doing, and keep windows and your data on seperate partitions.

And that helps me how? Sure, I can recover my savegames. But I can’t recover the installation. It’s still used up an “activation slot”, and I’ve no way of uninstalling it, because the Windows it was installed on is gone. You seem to be missing the point here.

Those two aside, Windows XP has (as has been pointed out) exactly the same DRM, and I’ve never seen anyone boycott that. It’s very easy to boycott something that wouldn’t affect your life

Two things. First, it’s not exactly the same. XP “regenerates” activations over time. If you run out, you can leave it for a few months, and then you can magically install again. That makes it a non-issue in most cases (since few people are reinstalling multiple times in a few days). And second, the fact that we don’t have a *choice* about Windows doesn’t mean we should accept the same thing in cases where we *can* choose, does it?

But, instead of an unfocused DRM WILL KILL YOUR MOTHER AND RAPE YOUR FATHER rant on Amazon, how about focused complaints to EA?

Because they pay more attention to things that can hurt their bottom line. If they make a decision that causes users to give their product bad reviews, it’s something they *have* to react to, at least if it grows big enough.
If I send them an angry email, why would they care? A protest only has a chance of working if it’s visible. If people just send mails to EA in private (where to, anyway? Do you have a suitable email address we should send it to?), no one else notices. EA might, but they *know* that it won’t get any further. If they keep quiet about it, no one even *hears* about these protest emails. So what do they do? They keep quiet about it.
Something like the Amazon thing? Well, if they don’t react, *everyone* hears about it. So they have to act. Which is most effective then?

09/09/2008 at 13:11 Shadowmancer says:

@ Diogo Ribeiro If you read the terms and conditions of the drm it says an install also counts as changing hardware in a computer, so at christmas when you put in new ram a new processor and graphics card you have already expired all the installs.

09/09/2008 at 13:14 M.P. says:

I disagree with the review. Dissatisfaction with DRM has raged for decades and the industry consistently ignores all complaints, making it more and more draconian instead of less. Complaints to EA would fall down the gaping black hole of its customer support, the relevant industry regulator would be powerless, the store you bought the game from would be unsympathetic, and raging in places like this (where you’re only preaching to the flock) is pointless.

The only way to make publishers take notice is to complain in a prominent public place where our complaints will also be viewed by the wider public – because, let’s face it, for games like Spore, “hardcore” gamers would constitute perhaps 1% of its sales.

As long as you accompany your rating with a comment justifying it (“I found the copy protection on this game so restrictive that it curtailed my enjoyment of it”) then why is that not legitimate?

09/09/2008 at 13:17 Tom says:

taking your ass out of the chair and going to retail stores in organized campaigns, for instance, is

Ok, lets head over to insert retail store name here kick the sales guy in the stomach , smash his shop windows and of course burn some copys of spore. I guess that would sway public opinion ;)

09/09/2008 at 13:27 Hypocee says:

I think they’re entirely in the right. You’re not buying the game, you’re buying a product which includes the game and EA’s bullshit means there’s a very good chance – a certainty in the long run, if you’re lawful – that the product you’re buying won’t work. It was tough choosing whether to buy Spore or not; eventually I decided that the mere attempt to make a game this big based on wonder and creativity meant I had a moral obligation to throw money at the team, regardless of what their stupid bosses were up to. I can definitely see the other side, though, and it’s sort of an all-or-nothing decision; if I’d tipped the other way, I think I’d have had to rate it a 1 or maybe 2 to indicate a product that demonstrably fails to work by design.

09/09/2008 at 13:30 NeoTheo says:

not fond of DRM, but “using all your system resources” , for gods sake talk about over statement.

id rather it was without the DRM, but really, i loose Cd’s after a few weeks let alone years, so i doubt its THAT much of a issue for me.

what about mmo’s ? you pay for them, the day the servers get turned off your screwed, nobody wants there 30Quid back after that happens.

big fuss by internet warriors over something that whilst isnt good, is hardly stopping something from being fun to play.

09/09/2008 at 13:37 SwiftRanger says:

“How do you propose sending a message to publishers that their DRM is unnecessary and we don’t like being treated like criminals, then? Start an online petition? If the publisher can just ignore the problem then it’s not worth wasting time to protest.”

How did the Mass Effect 10-day activation thingie got removed? Bioware boards were flooded. Send in the e-mails, harass the official forums, keep this thing in the attention, don’t take it as normal but also, don’t say “Do not buy this game because it has DRM!” because that’s not gonna have any effect on EA or any other publisher and some people might be missing out on great games that way.

09/09/2008 at 13:39 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Nallen says:

What a farce of a response. If you buy a game it is none of anyone’s concern how you decide to play it!

Funny, the same could be said of people willing to buy Spore but who get stringed up by others who do not want them to play it. It’s their choice, isn’t it?

Saying that DRM having an impact on how you choose to use a licensed piece of software is your own fault really is a ball crunchingly bad argument.

You failed at that comprehension skill check, mate. I never stated it’s one’s fault that the DRM affects your game; but citing DRM as a reason as to why you may not be able to play a game in between one to three years is somewhat pushing it, no? Yes, you’re “free” to play the game as you want. But if you want to take between one to three years, then you’d better be ready to deal with the consequences of the DRM. It’s no different than having to, say, deal with outdated drivers or unsupported operating systems – if you want to play a PC game nowadays, you’d better be ready to engage in some technical juggling no matter how you look at it. You can argue DRM is a particularly daft technicism to deal with – no argument there – but, seriously, you know how it works and what to do with it. Yet, instead of choosing to deal with it or foregoing it entirely, yoru argument is… What? DRM is bad because my computer might need to be messed around with? Ok, fair enough. Now replace “DRM” and “computer” with, say, “Vista” and “Deus Ex”, respectively. You have a choice, then – don’t buy Vista. No complaints. But if you do, and you know of its intrincancies and how they don’t exactly jibe with your PC maintenance… Adapt.

09/09/2008 at 13:47 ADamnFox says:

Long comment thread, and this happened quite early on, but it deserves notice–it’s the best Angry Internet slogan ever:

“As to being hateful? Screw you.”

09/09/2008 at 13:54 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Tom:

Well, the guy behind the counter selling the game isn’t exactly at fautl :) Although it would be if we were discussing obscene prices.

The point of doing this in front of a store is to raise awareness in a more efficient way, as you can certainly raise more eyebrows with a well thought out campaign that addresses the meat of the issue. As opposed to bleating on a website and hoping that people who look at ratings will somehow divine that “1 star = Draconian DRM methods”.

Also, official forums are by far one of the better ways, as you are addressing not the only the developers but also the kind of gamer that gets his information from said forums.

09/09/2008 at 14:13 Downloads_Plz says:

A couple points I’d like to make.

1. Anyone that looks JUST at the number of stars without scrolling down to see WHY so many people voted they way they did is not a very smart person. Even just going down to the first three default comments shows that all of them blame DRM in their title. I don’t at all agree with rating it so low just because of that, but I still don’t think it will actually end up affecting sales much, if at all.

2. I think that maybe a lot of problems with DRM would be avoided if companies were just a lot more honest about their DRM. For example, every game comes with the Minimum Specifications listed somewhere on the box. What exactly is stopping companies from putting their DRM information on the box, aside from being afraid of backlash, which only ends up getting amplified anyway when customers take their new game home and find out they can only install it 2 or 3 times?

And of course this isn’t even touching the fact that the game is already pirated anyway, so all their DRM is really doing is annoying their paying customers.

09/09/2008 at 14:17 Bobsy says:

BBC weighs in.

“The DRM on this thing is less friendly than my recent colonoscopy – you get three installs. That’s it. No install returned for uninstallation, or anything else,” wrote one reviewer.

09/09/2008 at 14:23 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Downloads_Plz:

Very much agree on the second point, and it would be a much more sensible approach to some of the issues of DRM.

As for the first… They may not be smart, but that is the nature of ratings (as opposed to reviews). They are not meant for people willing to spend time reading up multiple sources of info; instead, they’re meant to be “reviews in a glance”. True, DRM is listed as a reason throughout. But the very first three default comments you’ve mentioned say absolutely NOTHING about the game itself, other than “great game”. That’s not even criticism, it’s more akin to a blanket statement. And out of those 1200 reviews, how many do the exact same?

09/09/2008 at 14:32 Andrew F says:

I think a point in Alec’s original post, which people have gone to some contortions to avoid, is it would be better if people who are rating the game at 1 star had ever actually come in contact with it.

09/09/2008 at 14:40 Chaz says:

I must say that I’m also against this kind of protesting by purposely giving lower scores. This kind of protesting is generally aimed at a grievance with the publisher, and yet those that get affected by it most are the folks that made the game, who often have very little control over how its published. When a group of game designers spend a few long years of their lives creating a game, then I think they deserve a fair crack of the whip when it comes to its criticisms. If you have a problem with the publishers, then take it up with them, but score the game on its merits.

A similar thing happened on Gamespot over the Jeff Gerstmann debacle with the Kane and Lynch review, and in protest lots of folks gave it a 1 point score. The whole thing was the fault of Gamespot and the publishers and yet ultimately it was the devs, who had nothing to do with, that got punished by the low scores. OK it wasn’t a great game, but it received an unfair drubbing due to the Gerstmann incident.

09/09/2008 at 14:43 Shadout says:

Diogo Ribeiro says:
Yes, you’re “free” to play the game as you want. But if you want to take between one to three years, then you’d better be ready to deal with the consequences of the DRM.

Sorry, but that is bullshit. Its not exactly exceptional to play games which are more than 2-3 years old, hell, its only a few weeks ago I played a 9 year old game. The whole point here is that DRM shouldnt affect your ability to play the game in any way, and it shouldnt make it an annoyance to be able to play it (like calling EA… Just imagine having to call EA in 10 yara about new activations. I wouldnt be surprised if they will be like “wtf, which game are you talking about? Sorry, we cant help you”.

Im not against all sorts of DRM, but they should try to use it as a positive thing. Like Steam, where you can play your games from any PC you can log into. Give people benefits rather than things to be annoyed about, and they will be less pissed.
(Not requiring CD is another benefit, at least EA gives that one, but its a damn high price to pay for that)

09/09/2008 at 14:50 Merc says:

How dare that Rosa Parks not sit at the back of the bus? She was taking up a seat that some legit bus user wanted to use! Had that guy ever done anything to her, personally? Surely there were better ways to protest segregation, like writing to bus companies and asking for seats at the front.

The fact is, DRM bothers everyone except people who infringe copyrights. It really bothers some people, and it just irratates others, but there’s almost nobody who doesn’t notice it at all. Many of the people it bothers aren’t sophisticated enough to know what the source of their annoyance is, and definitely wouldn’t have known before buying the game that that kind of annoyance was going to be part of the user experience.

Since every publisher is doing it, end users slowly get desensitized to it, and just start accepting that buying a game means a constant level of annoyance with installing, upgrading, running, etc. People writing in to say “I don’t like DRM” won’t do much because the companies will just look at sales figures and say “hrm, well I don’t see an impact on our bottom line” and keep up the DRM.

A protest like this, on the other hand, will at least bring the issue into the light. Sure, there’s a somewhat innocent victim — Spore’s DRM is not orders of magnitude worse than most other games, and as bad as the DRM may be, it probably doesn’t mean the game rates 1 star. On the other hand, this kind of a protest will probably get some attention from the media and maybe even from game publishers. A future publisher may decide to try to tap into the anti-DRM sentiment by using a lack of DRM as a selling point, and may see that DRM has little or no effect on serious copyright infringement. I already know of some game publishers who have heard that message and have cut back on DRM.

In the end, inconveniencing the designers and producers of spore by being so vocal about its DRM may not be fair to them, in the end it may result in a little pushback against DRM for a change.

09/09/2008 at 14:55 Man Raised By Puffins says:

Heh, I like how the Angry Internet Men have their own TLA now.

I’m loathe to weigh into long DRM threads, but here’s my tuppence nonetheless: I find it a bit disappointing that so few of the user reviews mention the actual, rather spiffy, game in question, but the Amazon user review system has always been open to such abuse so it’s not that suprising. That said there has been naff all mention of the three installs soft limit in the mainstream reviews of Spore, where it certainly warranted at least a few sentences to explain what it entailed to let people judge for themselves whether it was worth it or not. Heck, if I wasn’t aware of the limit from the Mass Effect debacle I probably would have been in the dark about it until now too. As it is I’m very grudgingly accepting the limit, as I’m unlikely to hit it (bar any major system hiccups) for a fair old while yet.

09/09/2008 at 15:03 Rob says:

DRM has been compared to segregation, apparently as equal ‘annoyances’. I can’t think of any good place this thread can go from that point.

09/09/2008 at 15:08 Cooper says:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7604405.stm

Has made that worthwhile. Sorry, but bugger the Amazon customers. Boo hoo. Wah wah. Yes, this is a great game. A great game dogged by excessive DRM.

There are other targets, sure, but Spore has the potential to be an across-the-board hit with a wide variety of consumers, thus it is prime for this sort of action.

Don’t feel sorry for those people who now won’t play the game and get angry at active consumers, exercising one of the few ways we have to express our concerns in a direct action manner. Blame EA for hitching up the bar so high that such a back lash happened.

This is not a minority of greedy pirates who were gonna nab the game anyway – they had the game prior to release and are pretty content. This is consumers like me, who would have bought the game, were it not for authentication (I can’t behind this firewall) and three installs (I’m getting a new computer soon, that’s two gone there. God help me if I uninstall and decide, at a later date, to reinstall…)

09/09/2008 at 15:20 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Shadout:

Sorry, but that is bullshit. Its not exactly exceptional to play games which are more than 2-3 years old, hell, its only a few weeks ago I played a 9 year old game.

Good for you.

Now let’s assume that Spore came with no DRM whatsoever. You bought it, unwrapped it, and it made you so giddy and full of love it made you feel like a dog rolling on something stinky. Let’s also assume that 9 years into the future, you’d want to replay Spore. What’s your guarantee that you’d be able to play it even without DRM? Or even that you’d want to?

The DRM is a pointless blight on games’ publishing. Fact. But people are looking at DRM as something that will technically forbid them of playing the game. Ok. While not far from the truth, can we seriously claim that non-DRM games have no such techincal issues? You managed to play a 9 year old game. Great. I can’t boot up Deus Ex or Planescape: Torment in Vista even with compatability modes, and can’t play some classics I adored on WinXP. My scanner didn’t get recognized in Vista as well, although it had no problems in XP before it fizzled away. Several old games don’t even parse through DosBox, for instance; games I’ve spent years trying to find and when I do, kaput.

None of which, by the way, had DRM.

So, what’s the best course of action here – to openly attack every single new piece of hardware, software and operating systems that is released, because their specifics may not allow me to use them 9 years from now?

People keep saying how much they want to replay the game in the future. That’s fine, even if I’d hazard the guess most are saying this based on the assumption they’ll like the game enough to do that and aren’t speaking from firsthand experience, but that’s now what I’m getting at. What I’m getting at is, just how many times do you honestly envision reinstalling a game? Even if you throw a number like “15″ into the air – because, you know, you like a game so much you’ll be playing the damn thing with one hand in your pants – you have three chances of installation with Spore. Three. And then those are only based on the DVD – later on, you’ll be able to reinstall it by other means of activation; presumably, for how many times as you like. But even if it did not had DRM, and considering how technical changes tend to muck up compatability, what’s your guarantee you’d be able to play it in the future for as many times as you’d like?

Reading most of the comments written on RPS over time, you get people stating numerous reasons as to why they may not even be able to play X or Y games when they come out – work, family, PCs that need to be upgraded and so on. It’s not uncommon to read comments of people who wait to play games before they upgrade their computers. Before they upgrade. Meaning, they will actively refrain from buying or playing a game before their computer is up to spec to play it. But when Spore presents a similar conodrum, it’s not accepted. Because – while other games may be shafted in our priority lists as we may not have the means to play them, or play them in the best of conditions, or the right amount of time to play them – Spore somehow needs to concede to every single one of our gaming demands?

09/09/2008 at 15:25 aldo says:

Stupidly, I wasn’t aware of this insiduous piece of DRM. Had I been, I’d have cancelled my pre-order. 3 installations is a ridiculous, almost maliciously low, amount; I don’t think I have any game over a year old which hasn’t been uninstalled at some point.

09/09/2008 at 15:36 cliffski says:

I’d rather buy a securom game than a CD-required game. I love not needing the CD’s, and securom is on my machine from 3 games right now. I’d never notice it.
Securom means I don’t need a CD check, which I think rules.
I think DRM is a bad idea in general, but lets be honest, it’s being blown out of all proportion here. Why don’t people get this annoyed about corrupt politicians, the police shooting civilians or illegal wars FFS?

09/09/2008 at 15:41 Ketch says:

You know, it really is a huge shame because the people’s reputation these amazon protestors are destroying are those of maxis and not EA as a whole.

Even without this game EA would still be the giant evil corporation it is now. Maxis will lose money and EA will just get on with it barely scathed.

We should be protesting directly at EA.

09/09/2008 at 15:43 JonFitt says:

@cliffski: “I think DRM is a bad idea in general, but lets be honest, it’s being blown out of all proportion here. Why don’t people get this annoyed about corrupt politicians, the police shooting civilians or illegal wars FFS?”

I get very annoyed; show me where you want me to write a 1-star comment and I’ll do it! :)

PS I think it’s just your skewed information feed, have you ever been to a political forum, or even a soccer forum? Wooo lordy, DRM isn’t even close.

09/09/2008 at 15:45 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@zeh:

Do you seriously think it’s admissable that 1200 people only criticize one aspect and even fail to properly mention everything else about the product?

09/09/2008 at 15:51 sana says:

Umm – the BBC article states the Spore DRM system isn’t limited to 3 installs but instead allows 3 computers to install the same copy of Spore – isn’t that absolutely reasonable?

09/09/2008 at 15:53 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@JonFitt:

That analogy would imply people can’t get to – or play – Spore, when that’s not true. A proper analogy would be more in the lines of asking if it was worth entering the pub with such a price of admission.

And, indeed – the pub and the bouncer are part of the same thing. Pointless to just mention one at the expense of the other.

09/09/2008 at 15:55 Shadout says:

While not far from the truth, can we seriously claim that non-DRM games have no such techincal issues? You managed to play a 9 year old game. Great. I can’t boot up Deus Ex or Planescape: Torment in Vista even with compatibility modes, and can’t play some classics I adored on WinXP. My scanner didn’t get recognized in Vista as well, although it had no problems in XP before it fizzled away. Several old games don’t even parse through DosBox, for instance; games I’ve spent years trying to find and when I do, kaput.
You are surely right, lots of games wont run on new computers/Windows. But thats not really the fault of anyone in particular and you cant change it (beside stopping the technological progress I guess…). DRM can be changed!
I’m not against all types of DRM (although its nice without them, but they are a necessary evil given the pirates), but there is quite a difference between a “3 times install and we might give you more if you beg us”, or “installing random malware which might screw your PC, or just annoy the hell out of you, if you are lucky…” and the DRM others have used (Steam being the best example where the DRM gives the user clear benefits).
One way to make the DRM less crappy would be to place a time-limit on it. Like 1 year after the release, a patch is out which removes the 3 installs limit. Just like how some companies release no-CDs for their old games. After 1 year or so, the sales of the game is likely so low, and the piracy certainly is, that it wouldnt hurt anymore. The only point of DRM is pretty much to slow down the pirates for a few days/weeks where the potential for selling the game is highest.

09/09/2008 at 15:59 catracertangorose says:

Bought this game and am enjoying it. Stayed away from the hype, also I think its a great casual game for casual people. I don’t plan to call anyone ever. I have this on two pc’s and two people playing in my house. I’m a pirate and cause DRM? I will pirate this game if it ever asks me to call someone or do anything other then insert cd then install. DRM can be good this is just poor implementation. Also the creatures online are amazing I wish maxis creatures wouldn’t keep over running the place, that needs to be fixed.

09/09/2008 at 16:01 Ragnar says:

@Diogo Ribeiro

What’s your guarantee that you’d be able to play it even without DRM?

If it works now, it will work in 10 years with the same hardware/software setup.

Also I have a few games that I run in emulators (e.g. wine under linux) or virtual machines (e.g. scummvm) which works fine, so I can even run it with nonsupported software/hardware.

And it is highly probable that windows is sufficiently backwards-compatible to allow for playing older games (heck until I bought Vista 64-bit I were able to play 10-15 year old DOS games without a problem).

The point is that playing the game in a non-supported environment is my own headache, but if I want to play a game that I have bought, in a supported environment (to the point that it has already been tested to work in said environment), I see no reason why I should need to contact any support just to *be allowed* to play the game.

09/09/2008 at 16:03 Erlam says:

“… this concerted group effort (most of whom, I imagine, haven’t actually played the game or experienced its usage restrictions first-hand) is giving innocent Amazon customers entirely the wrong impression of a game they might well love: that star rating is all that a lot of people look at.”

Then they deserve to ‘fall’ for this. Anyone who makes little to no effort to look at what they’re purchasing have no right to complain. Are you actually saying that people who go to Amazon.com, see the one star, and then avoid the game, are somehow wronged? Maybe if they woke up and looked at what was going on this wouldn’t be a problem.

If a game has this kind of moronic ‘security’ measure, it deserves this kind of attention. What other message could you possibly send to EA that would have an effect this? EA is about money (and I don’t blame them for that, but they also don’t really care about customer reaction, unless it affects sales), so they only message you can send them that they’ll understand is one that makes them lose money.

For those about to one-star, we salute you.

09/09/2008 at 16:04 gradius says:

1) It’s awesome that consumers actually have some organised power for a change. That’s more important than the fate of Spore, all of EA, and probably all of gaming.

2) Amazon just needs to make a more granular rating system. Spore (presumably, haven’t played it) deserves 5 stars for Gameplay, 3 stars for Graphics and 0 stars for Other.

09/09/2008 at 16:07 Robin says:

I think it’s a pretty valid way to raise awareness of the issue, considering that the specialist press (especially in the US) seem to be terrified of upsetting the big publishers. It’s the lack of any legitimately aired dissent that has allowed EA to get away with the DRM schemes used on Spore and Mass Effect in the first place.

I would object to a review site or magazine docking points for DRM (because inevitably changes to the distribution method would eventually make the criticisms invalid), but Amazon reviews aren’t supposed to be expert appraisals of the game, but aggregated opinion of likely customer satisfaction. The typical audience for Spore (casual gamers or whatever term you want to use – families with multiple machines) are the least likely to know that they can circumvent the DRM, and are the most likely to have their experience adversely affected by it.

It’s not going to significantly affect the game’s sales (which is why I have to respectfully disagree with Cliffski on this one, sorry), but it will generate bad press.

It’s worth bearing in mind that EA are no longer where they were five years ago – the company that dwarfed their competitors and had a tight grip on all the important markets. The market has changed and EA are struggling to stay relevant, and things like Spore’s DRM are products of desperation rather than strategy. I don’t think you could get someone from EA (least of all Will Wright) to sit down and explain why limiting the number of installs has any beneficial effect. Valve, Take2 and Activision/Blizzard don’t do it, and by golly if they’re not all making money on PC games hand over fist.

If the net effect for them is negative (as we saw with Starforce) they might back down.

@The Poisoned Sponge: “What it is is to stop you reselling the game in used game stores.”

Extremely few retailers take second hand PC games.

@Rob Lang: “wish I could phone up Toyota and get them to switch my car back on when it breaks (or, rather, I drive it into something) – oh, hang on, I can.”

What a horrible analogy. You don’t have to phone up Toyota for permission to use your car as intended.

@Diogo Ribeiro:

“If between one to three years, you believe you may not have finished it, I’d suggest that it is not a problem with the game or its DRM.”

Is the idea of people wanting to enjoy a game in perpetuity such an alien concept these days? I blame MTV.

09/09/2008 at 16:07 Erlam says:

“I can’t boot up Deus Ex or Planescape: Torment in Vista even with compatability modes, and can’t play some classics I adored on WinXP.”

Really? Deus Ex? I play it every week or so – I have XP Pro. I’m using my old, first week release, CD too. Well, I had to fix the scratches on it, but it does work. What error are you getting?

09/09/2008 at 16:08 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Erlam:

That may have become muddled, so a correction is in order – I can boot it up in XP, not on Vista :)

09/09/2008 at 16:11 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Robin:

Is the idea of people wanting to enjoy a game in perpetuity such an alien concept these days?

No. But the idea that we will be able to do so without a hitch might be.

09/09/2008 at 16:17 JonFitt says:

I want to play it – 1 install
I’m going to install Vista at some point in the near-ish fututre – 2 installs
My wife wants to play it – 3 installs
She is due a new laptop shortly – 4 installs.

and that’s just for starters.

People are saying 10 years from now, but what about 2 years from now? After the up-teen expansion packs that are due out. I’ve lost track of the number of times my wife re-installed The Sims.
Are you going to have any installs left for “Spore: Vacation”?

Someone also mentioned here that you’re only allowed one account as well, so how are my wife and I supposed to play without having to use each other’s spawn?

We don’t have to play at the same time, but we do want to both play one copy.

09/09/2008 at 16:20 Mr Lunch says:

It just goes to show that it’s mostly the clueless that pay for software. Poor, invested ranters. No-one with any nous could possibly have a problem, even if they stoop as far as handing over life-tokens for the thing. Who cares how bad the system gets if you can exist outside of it? Hell, it keeps the fuckheads contained and occupied imo… moar DRM!!

09/09/2008 at 16:22 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@cuk:

Thanks for telling me :) I don’t think I have the x64 version of Vista, though. Might be related? I’ll have to check this out when my gaming PC gets fixed.

09/09/2008 at 16:24 Alex says:

Who decides whether to buy something or not by just looking at a star rating?

Surely that would just mean two slightly different flavours of stupid meeting eachother in the middle.

09/09/2008 at 16:29 cullnean says:

any one got a link to the eula any where?

09/09/2008 at 16:37 Delduwath says:

@Diogo Ribeiro:
The thing is, you can guarantee that you’ll be able to play a game in the future by keeping a machine from every “era”. For example, a Win98 machine with a 3dfx card, a WinXP machine with an Geforce4, and so on. Obviously, this requires significant physical storage space and financial commitment, but it only depends on what YOU do. If you take certain precautions, you’ll be able to play a 20-year-old game even if the current generation of computers has no concept of “CD-drive” or “motherboard”.

Remotely-activated games like Spore and so on rely on SOMEONE ELSE, specifically EA and their SecuRom activation servers. There’s no way YOU can ensure that 20 years from now, EA will still be an entity, that their activation servers will be running, and that they will still be responding to queries from Spore.

DRM and hardware/software changes both stand in the way of playing current games in the future. One of these obstacles is in your power to circumvent, one of them you cannot do a thing about. This is why no one is mentioning the hardware/software when talking about playing games in the future, and is focusing only on the DRM.

09/09/2008 at 16:48 The Sombrero Kid says:

emulation always guarantees computability in the long run without drm, but then combine emulation with stripped exes and you’ve still got the same guarantee, this isn’t about whether or not you will be able to play it in 10 years it’s about surrendering basic freedoms now AND in 10 years.

no one would tolerate a government this intrusive and their interests are closer aligned with yours than EA’s ever will be.

09/09/2008 at 16:50 cliffski says:

“no one would tolerate a government this intrusive and their interests are closer aligned with yours than EA’s ever will be.”

gimme a break. the USA has the patriot act, and the UK prevented us demonstrating within a mile radius of the hq of our parliamentary democracy. What did you do to protest these actions?
anything?

09/09/2008 at 16:54 Velt says:

DRM and you.

If you purchase a copy of and MMORPG, how many accounts are you permitted? One. The CD Key you were given can only be tied to one username and password.

Why should it work any differently for any other game? You can’t load up WoW and log in twice, unless you own two separate copies of the game. Nobody has a problem with this, yet it’s a problem with Spore?

DRM is just a method of ensuring that the artists who create content, are able to keep creating without fear that their work will be stolen from them.

It’s an inconvenience, but due to the amount of software that has been stolen in the past, It’s a required evil at this point. If you have ever pirated software in your life, it’s your fault that DRM exists. We’re pretty much all guilty.

If there is no DRM, there is no protection for the artists that create games, and in the end they are the ones punished when companies can’t afford to continue paying them for their services. I’m not saying that the method is flawless, but DRM is necessary. Otherwise 30% of the PC market is lost, which means they have more difficulties breaking even after the release of the game. Games aren’t cheap to make like the old days, it costs millions to make a video game. They spend insane amounts of money just for advertising alone. Why release a game for PC if you aren’t going to break even? or Profit? Welcome to Capitalism.

09/09/2008 at 16:56 Shadowmancer says:

@ The Sombrero Kid “no one would tolerate a government this intrusive and their interests are closer aligned with yours than EA’s ever will be.”

The governments far more intrusive than u think they recently alowed isps to become internet police and ban ppl for downloading too big files, e.g. one of my friends was banned from virgin media for downloading the orange box and the id super pack at the weekend, and he got them legally of steam.

09/09/2008 at 17:00 Frosty840 says:

Spore’s a pile of pretty graphics and intelligent, procedural animation-generation on top of a set of crap minigames.
Even the Space section is a crap minigame, it’s just a big minigame.
There’s no depth anywhere.

There’s no choosing speed over strength in the creature creator.
There’s no fashioning tools from stone and development of technologies in the tribal stage.
There’s no tech tree at all in the civilization stage.
There’s hardly any challenge in the space stage, and it’s just so indescribably dull anyway that what little challenge there is is soon becomes a monotonous chore.

You can’t even reconfigure the controls for fuck’s sake! Who makes games where you can’t reconfigure the controls?

Yes, the creature creator is very, very pretty, but Spore is hardly a game, and is barely even a toy.

I keep hearing that Spore is original and innovative and all that bollocks.

How?

It’s a set of dull minigames, connected by a common theme. So are the Big Brother games. Sure, Spore is less broken than those, but so what? “Not broken and bugged all to fuck” is the game industry’s stand-in for original and innovative now?

Heck, just look at the achievements-bandwagonning “badges” from the space stage. Every single solitary one of them is grind-based. All of ‘em! “Travel 500 times”. “Visit 100 star systems”. “Use the planet-sculpting tools 50 times”.

Where the hell is the high-end stuff? The badge for digging up every tree on a planet and using them to spell out your name so that it can be seen from orbit? Where’s the ability to play as a race so violent and warlike that you don’t end up having to drag your sorry arse back to every backwoods world in your empire every six minutes to defend it from THREE FUCKING PIRATE SHIPS. Fuck’s sake, I had enough firepower to defend against that sort of force in the civilization stage, and the other empires can certainly muster enough force to see my spaceship off, so why do my colonies continually freak out at a “threat” that took me all of thirty seconds to deal with at the start of the space stage, let alone at the end of it.

Aside from any of the complaints I have about the game itself, the parts of the game that are blatantly missing and will be available in the expansion pack are simply insulting.
There’s an editor for nearly everything in the game, but no ability to edit turrets, no way to create plants, no way to create new city layouts, no scope to hilariously over-power your creature in the cell and creature stages.

Selling me a game that’s not all that good is one thing, but selling me three quarters of a game that’s not all that good and making me wait six months or so on the promise that if I wait quietly like a good little boy they might eventually allow me to spend more money to get the finished version of the game which by that stage might actually be worth playing? That’s a different matter. That’s insulting.

Okay, rant done. Gonna go play some CivIV. You know, a game that shipped complete and had expansions that added to its completeness by making it better?

09/09/2008 at 17:07 Ian says:

Cliffski clearly doesn’t realise how many babies get stomped on as a direct result of DRM.

Shame on you! Shaaaaaaaaaame!

09/09/2008 at 17:11 Noc says:

Goddamnit, Cliffski! We are the internet! We do not deal in “facts.” What we deal with is much more important.

09/09/2008 at 17:13 Boojum says:

@Robin “Extremely few retailers take second hand PC games.”

Obviously you’ve never been to GAME, Gamestation, Amazon or Ebay.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B0000DG2T3/ref=dp_olp_1/203-3750482-3032745

Notice the section that says “used”, for example. I guess I could go out and take photos of the second hand games in Gamestation but I can’t be bothered

Oh yeah. DRM.

Don’t care. Not in the slightest. If it gives me problems, I’ll just crack the sonnovabitch.

Wow, DRM really does lead to thoughts of piracy.

Bad Boojum, Bad!

09/09/2008 at 17:19 grumpy says:

Velt: Do you seriously believe that stuff?

Let’s take a closer look:

If you purchase a copy of and MMORPG, how many accounts are you permitted? One. The CD Key you were given can only be tied to one username and password.

Why should it work any differently for any other game? You can’t load up WoW and log in twice, unless you own two separate copies of the game. Nobody has a problem with this, yet it’s a problem with Spore?

Seriously? These are two entirely different systems. I can log in to WoW on *any* computer, no matter how many times the game has been reinstalled there, and no matter whose copy of the game has been installed. If someone has WoW, I can log in. If someone does not have WoW, I can install it just like that.
With Spore… I can’t. If I try to install the game on a new computer, *bang*, I use up a precious installation slot.

DRM is just a method of ensuring that the artists who create content, are able to keep creating without fear that their work will be stolen from them.

No it isn’t. In an ideal world, that’s what it would be, but….. Spore was cracked on release. The pirates have been able to play the game from day 1. So ti does *not* protect anyone.

It’s an inconvenience, but due to the amount of software that has been stolen in the past, It’s a required evil at this point.

Is it? Then how come so many games sell very well *without* extreme DRM? Stardock don’t use *any* DRM. Sins of a Solar Empire has sold 500k copies so far.
Steam is a huge success, and while that *is* DRM, it doesn’t limit how often I can install or download the game.
Civ4 only required the CD to be in the drive during startup. It doesn’t care how many computers you install it on. And that game too, sold shedloads of copies.
The facts contradict you.

If there is no DRM, there is no protection for the artists that create games

There is no protection for them WITH DRM either. That’s kinda the point. The game still got cracked on day 1.

Otherwise 30% of the PC market is lost, which means they have more difficulties breaking even after the release of the game.

That doesn’t matter, because the remaining 70% is worth 80 gajillion megadollars.
See, I can make up numbers too.

Why release a game for PC if you aren’t going to break even? or Profit? Welcome to Capitalism.

Why buy a game that gives you less value for your money? Welcome to capitalism. The point about capitalism is that consumers buy what they want, and so corporations have to *give* them what they want in order to make money.
Saying “We decide what you get to buy” is *not* capitalism, it’s fascism.

And now tell me, how does EA make more money by doing something that makes a lot of people *cancel* their orders?

Perhaps, just perhaps, it’s not as black and white as you like to pretend. Perhaps, the facts actually tell a different story. Simple, easily verified facts. Not random made-up numbers like “30%”, but actual fact.

Any idiot can verify that Spore was cracked on day 1. And you only have to read a few posts in this thread to see that there are people who have chosen not to buy a game because of its DRM.

09/09/2008 at 17:23 cullnean says:

i saw DRM punch a baby

09/09/2008 at 17:31 JonFitt says:

I saw DRM spoil a good game.

It’s punishing customers (not pirates) because pirates exist. There is no logic there.

I guess we’re arguing if it’s punishing them enough to be annoyed enough to protest on Amazon or if their not sufficiently punished?
Perhaps no punishment would solve this?

09/09/2008 at 17:44 Paul Moloney says:

Part of me feels guilty at not being inconvenienced by DRM. I’ve honestly never had a problem with it, and never found I couldn’t install or play a game that has it, over the course 2 desktops and 2 laptops. I feel like someone in Paris 1968 who missed the whole revolution. Am I just incredibly lucky? Or is it possibly these “DRM stole my dog’s homework” people just, well, have crap machines?

P.

09/09/2008 at 17:50 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Jim:

Probably not, but you can have Charles Darwin dance and lay eggs.

09/09/2008 at 17:56 Maximum Fish says:

I haven’t played spore, so i can’t say whether or not it is the sort of game that deserves attention or if it failed to live up to whatever. I do think DRM is draconian police state bullshit, and though this didn’t stop me from playing Bioshock and Mass Effect, it still irritated me. (Interesting note, in both cases i downloaded a < 1 meg file from gamecopyworld as a quicker alternative to calling up some dude and begging to be allowed to use what i already bought, thus proving DRM to be useless draconian police state bullshit).

Part of me says DRM will continue to be employed by an industry currently caught up in the only half-rational fear of piracy until it’s benefit/cost ratio falls below zero, ie the market responds en masse by not buying games with DRM.

Although most game-purchasers are internet-atuned enough to pay more attention to actual reviews than a five star system on Amazon, if that means the written customer reviews (DRM is teh suck0rz!!!11 Peace!) or the professional reviews (Kane and Lynch is awesome, brought to you by Carl’s Jr.), and will make up their minds based on content rather than arbitrary scales. So maybe not such a huge deal either way…

The other part of me says, it’s super easy to subvert, a minor irritance at best for 80-90% of customers, and certainly not worth missing out on great games to “protest” over or whatever. Especially if you’ve never even played them at the time of organizing La Resistance.

Perhaps a better solution to the problem, rather than organizing mass critical slammings on Amazon, would be to stop pirating games. I know not everyone with a complaint, legitimate or otherwise, pirates games, but those who do are a bit like street corner kingpins bitching about frequent police raids. Cause and effect, and all that.

Finally, you guys need to update your “milliseconds until the Spore backlash” to ‘zero’, because it’s apparently already happened. You should also spell “milliseconds” correctly…

09/09/2008 at 17:58 TwistyMcNoggins says:

Spore is a piece of software, not just a game. Reviewers need to account for that in their writing. DRM (etc) that interferes with the gaming experience should be shunned in the same way that a low frame rate or constant crashes are.

I have never played Spore and probably never will (Personal preference, it just doesn’t appeal to me). But I do know that if I ever am tempted to give it a whirl, I will do so on a pirate copy.

Spore’s install protection may stop a few kids at high school passing the game around between friends, but it does nothing to stop the internet piracy game publishers seem so willing to blame.

I have yet to see this new EA that was promised a few months ago.

09/09/2008 at 18:07 Paul Moloney says:

“Paul Moloney, a web challenge for you. Install Spore 4 times”

Um, to be honest, I’ve gone off the idea of buying it, if only because of the faint whiff of Black & White-ness about it (my wife bought me that after me raving about it pre-release, and I tried really hard to like it in order to not look ungrateful, but…). Plus I’m into GalCiv2 at the moment, and Crysis:Warhead & Fallout 3 are out pretty soon. Too many games.

I have a big enough hard-drive that I tend to install games and then leave ‘em. And fortunately since I start running a secure anti-virus and spyware regime, I’ve never been forced to reinstall, so the multiple-install problem has never affected me. And anyway, hopefully at some stage they either release a patch that removes the DRM (like the Bioshock people did), or, worst case, nice Mr. Pirate does it. Either way, the whole Bioshock and Mass Effect kerfuffle didn’t actually affect me materially.

I feel awfully unradical not getting worked up about it, but I can’t, especially as PC games _are_ being pirated.

P.

09/09/2008 at 18:17 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Ragnar:

No, of course not. That’s why I’ve mentioned Bioshock earlier as a case study for the subject matter – it’s a testament of protest done right. With the right kind of protest, things like DRM can be handled in a much better way from publishers for gamers – if there ever is a need for it, which I don’t think there is. But how many times have this kind of activations backfired? Probably less than what we think since the outcry against them when they fail is far superior to a positive outlook when it does work.

09/09/2008 at 18:22 Velt says:

Those are valid points, I’m not saying that this method of DRM is good. I’m just saying that DRM in general is not the issue.

Not all DRM is a bad thing. The method of requiring an online registration is a form of DRM.

Using the term DRM to channel your frustration is misleading. It’s like saying “This Car mechanic ripped me off, All car mechanics are awful”

Not all DRM is this extreme. I agree that the method of limiting the number of systems you can install software on is horseshit. However it is not fair to garble one method with all forms of DRM. Nor is it fair to ignore the reasoning behind why it is set up like that.

Regarding cracking Spore. All Games can be cracked.

With that said, Lets look at other games for a moment.

Wow. WoW can be cracked, and you can play on private servers.

But really, Are you getting even 1/10th of the value of the game? The answer is no. You are getting a Minorly Multiplayer Online rpg. So yes, technically you can play the game, but are you really getting what you want out of the game? That’s up to the player to decide, but if you compare the number of people playing on private servers to the 10 Million subscribers, the couple thousand players is a tiny tiny tiny %.

This is an example of a successful DRM, however going back to the software installation limit. Stop looking at how inconvenient it is, and look at why it’s done. If they don’t limit it, what’s to stop the average joe from letting all of his friends borrow his Spore CD, install spore, then running a crack? For many people it’s more convenient to install a program and run a crack, rather than download an entire torrent of the game, especially with ISP’s like Comcast throttling traffic, and instituting bandwidth caps.

It’s unfortunate that in order to inconvenience people who try to crack software, that they are inconveniencing honest customers. I completely agree with this, and there are probably 100′s of better ways to reduce piracy. But it can’t be denied that these are the results of years of unrestricted piracy.

What else are they to do to keep people from burning copies of the game? What are they to do to make it more difficult to crack games? More difficult to illegally obtain their software?

How would you lock it down? What form of DRM would you use to keep your work from being stolen?

09/09/2008 at 18:25 leo says:

I can’t say I have a problem with this. I myself went to Amamzon about 2 months ago to buy a copy of Mass Effect for PC. The low ratings on Amazon made me read some of the reviews as I thought it was a well regarded game when it was released. I didnt know about the DRM until I read those Amazon reviews. And thaks to them, I didnt buy the game. I’m wating till the DRM is removed.

See, its the principle of the thing. I don’t like being messed about by these people [game publishers]. When I buy something, I should be able to install it, sell it, heck, give it away. This limited activiations nonsense has simply got to end.

09/09/2008 at 18:26 Ragnar says:

@Diogo Ribeiro
I think we will see more outcries in about three or four weeks, when more people have had to reinstall it.

And, yes the protest could probably be done better, but I don’t blame people who take whatever avenue they can to protest. One way to make EA think about this is to make them actually lose money, so buy the game, then make sure to reinstall it on as many computers as you can and call EA tech support every time things fail. EA won’t bother about a few lost sales, but support is expensive and if their support costs sky-rocket, due to this activation scheme, then they will change things around. And I think that is what happened to Bioshock, they realised how much the support costs and how little they gain from the DRM.

09/09/2008 at 18:30 rob says:

RPS has probably made enough ad revenue off this post to retire :)

09/09/2008 at 18:36 Maximum Fish says:

I just went over to Amazon out of curiosity, and noticed that not only Spore, but every piece of Spore-related merchandise (of which there apparently is a lot) has a one star rating. They even got the strategy guide. Funny stuff.

09/09/2008 at 18:43 Frymaster says:

@Guido:

Given that you play tf2, and thus have an internet connection (and a broadband one at that), what, exactly, is your objection to the “DRM” in HL2?

Given that the behaviour of steam is…
- No hardware drivers
- Must have internet access at time of install only
- Must have a username / password (which you do and use)
- Among all currently internet-connected computers you own, only one can play the game at any one time
- No disc required in drive
- Your username and password will let you re-download the game at any time, even if you originally purchased the disc version

… I struggle to see how, assuming you have an internet connection available at least some time, this qualifies as “rigid” DRM. Especially if you use steam as a store / content downloader as well, the only actual possible annoyance (needing internet connection during install) is removed.

I am genuinely curious ever since I became aware of some people’s objection to Steam a few months back. Maybe it’s because I’m a Londoner I was introduced to steam via TFC (online-only) before HL2 was even released… I dunno.

09/09/2008 at 18:46 Chris Charabaruk says:

I’m not too sure it’s really a “concerted group effort,” really. I can understand if at first a few people put their heads together to do this, but like practically everything on the internet these days, it snowballed when others realized what was going on.

I’d say the first 20-50 might have been an attack, but the rest are lemmings, hangers-on, and a few of those crazies who are always ready to put on a riot.

09/09/2008 at 18:47 Shadowmancer says:

@ Diogo Ribeiro

agreed 10char, but remember this is a game also aimed at kids and she played the creature creator and wants to play the game, so is it possible to play the game on a pc without the internets and play it in singleplayer?

09/09/2008 at 18:59 a1ex says:

I think this Amazon mass rating is the best thing people could do. And it works, in contrast to blogging about it or whining in some nerdy forum.
By this the topic even made it on major news sites and is more widely noticed than before. (especially since the game made it into serious papers even before and it has a wide audience of adults who probably want to buy it for their kids).

09/09/2008 at 19:18 Ragnar says:

@Diogo Ribeiro

(hey, we agree :) )

Well, it’s good with a little bit of variation. :)

Oh, and I don’t actually write this in so much of a Spore perspective (because I’m not that excited about it), but rather from having bought Mass Effect PC. After my first play through my harddrive broke down and I want to reinstall ME, but I am a little hesitant because I don’t want to use up activation slots. I want to play my games without having to worry about the DRM.

09/09/2008 at 19:31 Zeno says:

The only way to make EA listen is to hit them where it hurts: their pocketbooks.

Angry letters won’t do anything. Blog about it? Are you kidding me?

These people want results, and this is one of the most effective ways of trying to get them.

09/09/2008 at 20:16 Po0py says:

@Seniath: Definatly sure. I have the latest version of Daemon Tools Pro. You might have an older version? Anyways. I went to the Spore technical difficulties forum and was tipped off about it there. Uninstallled it and immediatly Spore started installing. Seems it’s only certain versions of Daemon Tools that apply. It shows the lengths to which EA will go to. They patch any old shit on to restrict anything that might be seen to help piracy. I actually used Daemon Tools for very legit reasons. :(

09/09/2008 at 20:36 Keith says:

Late to the party, but grumpy pretty much hit the nail on the head a long way back: Spore is probably the “best” game to do this sort of protest on, because it’s high profile, and Maxis aren’t going to go under if they lose a few thousand sales.

But EA could well be embarrassed if the mainstream news starts to pick up the “restrictive DRM” angle and run with it.

The main downside I see is this: if it’s got uber-evil DRM, the story gets picked up by mainstream news outlets and it *still* sells 9billion copies … well, EA can officially say “so what? you still bought it. suckers” and carry on.

09/09/2008 at 20:44 Seniath says:

@Po0py yeah, I wager my version is waaay old. Haven’t touched it in moons.

09/09/2008 at 20:56 Diogo Ribeiro says:

@Shadowmancer:

I suppose verification requires you to be online, but effectively, you always play offline. The difference is that Spore will populate your world with Maxis creatures if you play offline, as opposed to player-created creatures if you log in to their server and have it download user content. So the fear of giant phallus wagging to the sound of hip-hop or something similar is pretty much off.

09/09/2008 at 21:14 Paul S says:

I remember when RPS was a nice neighbourhood, but now I’m afraid to leave the house.

09/09/2008 at 21:28 CitizenErazed says:

Protest action = public sphere. You know, marches, banners, all that shit. Protest action /= posting on Amazon.com.

09/09/2008 at 22:04 caesarbear says:

@JonFitt – The dongle example is to illustrate just how stupid it is to call the Spore DRM “draconian.” The paranoia over having to reactivate the three install limit is absurd, and you too seem to be guilty of encouraging that paranoia. As someone that should be familiar with what is and isn’t a challenge to support, I can’t understand why you would fan the flames of this hysterical hyperbole over install limit reactivation.

Yeah, I’d love for PC gaming to have no DRM at all, but that’s rendered impossible by this monstrous attitude of entitlement that these whiny children have. I mean, where was the tremendous outcry against piracy when it crippled sales of DRM-less Company of Heroes? It’s a pathetic display to see so much effort and anger directed towards something nearly insignificant.

09/09/2008 at 22:20 Diogo Ribeiro says:

Does anyone miss those anti-piracy novellas that came with games?

09/09/2008 at 22:30 David Resden says:

@ Keith

I’d re-read the terms of the license if I were you. You’re allowed to INSTALL the package on two machines, but only if they’re not USED at the same time.

That’s exactly what I was doing. I’d work new elements up, close the apps, then move them over to the other computer, place them, edit them, and leave them rendering whilst I got on with other work such as web coding in Notepad++.

Fact is, I stuck to the exact terms of the licence, and I was penalised because of it. Which, in my opinion, is all that DRM is achieving, penalising legitimate users, whilst pirates still get their way, and play/work without the restrictions imposed upon us. So… No more of my money is going toward Adobe (investigating alternatives now), and no money shall be sent to the developers of Spore.

09/09/2008 at 22:38 Shawn says:

Proudly gave it one big f’ing star, because after 3 activations, you don’t own the game anymore. The content of the game is pointless to discuss when the delivery method is horribly executed. $49.99 is far too much to ask to RENT a game, which this absolutely is. I always like to install my PC Games on my Rig and my Laptop, since I travel a lot, and use my thumbdrive to carry my saves, it’s been working great, but that right there takes away 2 installations never to get back. Now I’m down to 1 for the rest of my $49.99 when I go to build a new PC or buy a new laptop, which I do with frequency.

PC Gamers that actually buy their games should have the right to OWN that game for it’s lifetime like we’ve been doing forever. Yes, the EULA has always had certain legal terms saying that you can’t resell this item and that you don’t own the IP to the game, and that’s all fine and good, but what isn’t acceptable is this arogant attitude in treating paying customers like Criminals by HEAVILY restricting the user’s rights on how to use the game and where to use the game and when to use the game. That’s absolutely crossing the line.

EA better change their policy as this just isn’t acceptable. This isn’t a minority, It’s the majority of hardcore PC Gamers that stand united on this front. SHAME ON EA, SHAME ON THEM FOR TAKING AN AMAZING CONCEPT FOR A POTENTIALLY AMAZING GAME AND RUINING IT WITH NEEDLESS DRM THAT WILL GET PIRATED REGARDLESS, AND US PAYING CUSTOMERS WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT, NOT THE PIRATES. HOW THE SUITS DON’T SEE THIS IS ASTONISHING. This just proves it kids, if these people are this f’ing stupid, you can go anywhere in life.

With this sort of DRM, I believe this drives people to piracy, even though it’s a lousy and terrible excuse, it’s killing the PC Gaming industry, especially when a gamer has the option to buy it for console and not ever have to deal with this BS.

I hope EA is paying attention, as what Bioware did with Mass Effect was just as inexcusable, and you know Dragon Age will meet the same fate, sad to say.

09/09/2008 at 23:22 Rob says:

@caesarbear

[...]crippled sales of DRM-less Company of Heroes

Cite?

09/09/2008 at 23:27 Cope says:

@caesarbear

“The paranoia over having to reactivate the three install limit is absurd, and you too seem to be guilty of encouraging that paranoia. ”

What’s absurd is that I’m expected to make an international phone call to EA after a whole 3 installations and beg them to let me install the game I bought again. What’s even more absurd is that by pirating the game I don’t have to deal with that at all.

Every time DRM is stepped up a notch people like you tell everyone “Hey, it’s not so bad, really. It could be a lot worse.”, and then it gets a lot worse. And the people like you come back again, “Hey look, it’s not so bad really…” Well guess what? The line has to be drawn somewhere, and I for one am drawing it here.

09/09/2008 at 23:38 Chris says:

I’m a little torn, but I think the 1-star crowd is justified. You’re buying a crippled product, with inherent limitations not present in other things you buy. If I buy a console game, I can give it to a friend, swap it back, loan it to someone to try for a weekend, etc. The same is true with a book, a DVD, any number of things.

You can’t do that with Spore. You’ve bought a product with an inherent time bomb on it’s lifespan.

09/09/2008 at 23:56 wyrmsine says:

Okay, I got about halfway through the posts. The only question I’ve got relates to the many suggestions of “complaining sensibly”. When has that worked to discourage DRM? Please don’t cite Mass Effect, that DRM was an insane proposal to start with. I bought Spore yesterday – I knew there were concerns with the DRM, but had no idea how ludicrous it would actually be. Seriously – I should have pirated it, given the DRM and my inability to share the many creatures I made in the Creature Creator. It’s absolutley ridiculous that I paid for this, and it’s a really good game.

10/09/2008 at 00:15 wyrmsine says:

@ caesarbear: as regards professional software having activation limits, come on. Spending up to an hour on the phone to have, say, CS3 “approved” is a giant waste of my time and productivity. I can’t de-activate CS3 before a BSOD. The Adobe reps also make it a point to remind me that I only have so many phone activations left before my firm loses the license, but won’t tell me how many. Very helpful, that. Is Adobe going to refuse to activate my software at some point? Will EA do the same to my game? Why do I even have to ask this about a videogame?

10/09/2008 at 00:20 Surlyben says:

@caesarbear

First sale is what lets you, for example, resell used books as many times as you want. If it only allows you to install it three times, then you can’t resell it… You might claim (and EA surely would) that this is all covered in their license agreement, but since the license agreement doesn’t get agreed to until after money has changed hands, a lot of people think that it isn’t valid. As for what a judge might think, I don’t really know. Last I checked, the validity of shrinkwrapped licenses hadn’t been settled, but that was years ago, and I’ve never been a lawyer. (obviously this doesn’t apply to downloads where you agree to the license at the time of purchase, and your country might have different laws)

What I’m saying is that something that stops you from reselling it might be challengable, and if it matters so much to people, it might be worth talking to a lawyer. The class of affected people is pretty large, after all…

10/09/2008 at 00:38 john t says:

If the game were awesome, nobody would care about the DRM.

By almost all accounts, the game is kind of shit, so I think this may really end up hurting them. I’m downloading the mac version now. Since the creature creator wouldn’t even start on my macbook, i imagine this won’t be any better.

10/09/2008 at 01:00 Zeus says:

While I don’t agree with giving a game 1-star if you haven’t even played it…

…I think we can all agree that Spore deserves a 1-star rating after you’ve installed it three times.

Once you’ve installed it “too many times”, it becomes a coaster, every bit as useless as a game that simply refuses to work out of the box. And any game that refuses to work deserves 1-star. Right?

10/09/2008 at 01:13 Zeus says:

Okay, not a coaster. More like it’s impounded by the EA secret police.

But I can’t help but think how much this reminds me of the Red Ring of Death fiasco. What’s the difference between “Spore” breaking down and an Xbox 360 breaking down? A longer wait to get your 360 working again? Only this is by design, not oversight.

They actually want this to happen.

It’s insane.

10/09/2008 at 01:40 Esha says:

I picked up Spore a few days ago almost on impulse after something Kieron said, and I’ve grown to love it and it’s become a new addiction (damn you, Kieron!). The ability to shape life into exactly the kinds of things I’d want to see is special, and half the problem I have with the majority of games out there is the lack of imagination and the terribly boring things I’m forced to play. In Spore, I chose to play a shamantic Dragon race and I fly around space in a retrofitted Galleon, that’s highly entertaining and something I’m sure I won’t see repeated elsewhere.

Plus, turnabout is fair play. “It is the evil of Man, they come for us with their mechanical machinations and their brainwashed beasts, we must drive them back!”

…where was I?

Oh yes.

The only problem I have with the DRM thing really is that I don’t trust SecuROM. I don’t trust any company who’d propose the things they tend to propose (and anyone who’s read up on the SecuROM specifications will know what I’m talking about here), and at the end of the day I’d much sooner trust a known cracking group like Reloaded (love those guys) rather than a system of supreme shadiness such as SecuROM.

Is that a problem? I don’t know. At least the cracks exist, that’s a good thing. I just wish I knew it was alright to crack a game that I’d legally bought, because from my point of view groups like Reloaded are heroes. Without their efforts I would never have let Spore touch my system, and EA wouldn’t have had my money (just as I avoided every Star-Force game back in the day, and I really wanted some of those!).

I definitely don’t agree with people being militant about this though, that’s just bloody stupid. It’s nerd rage, and I’ve seen enough nerd rage to last me a lifetime. I’m hoping that eventually I’ll come across a cache of calm nerds who’ll herald in the future of online communities, berobed in their Linux symbol laden smocks. But until then… nerd rage.

And the problem is that those who’re opposed to SecuROM on a more technical level–i.e., anyone who has even the most basic understanding of computers just shouldn’t trust them as far as they can throw them–is washed out in the din, and that’s a shame because the biggest problems with SecuROM are technical.

The only thing I take umbrage at is someone trying to achieve a foothold scenario on my computer, for whatever reason. This leaves SecuROM (much the same as Star-Force) in the same camp as script-kiddies, because really they all just want the same thing, but the motives are different. And why should anyone trust something that dishonestly wants to gain a foothold situation on a person’s computer?

So what I’m going to do is keep cracking my games and simply ignore games that cracks aren’t available for, and really I’ll leave it at that because as long as the cracks exist, that’s a viable solution for me. I just wish the big companies new how much the cracking teams were actually their friends, as opposed to their enemies. They’re removing a system that doesn’t work and opening the door to business they wouldn’t have otherwise had. That’s a great thing.

Eventually, I’m hoping for a system like Steam to become dominant, but one less restricted. I say this because I realise that when battling against corporations who’re entirely about the money (and I really hope that won’t get horribly misconstrued, even though it likely will), you can’t convince them to opt for a system that might mean less money for them. So it’s got to be something that will–at least for them–look like it’s assuring them more customers.

The ideal solution for me would be one that used a login server, but anyone on the same IP could login through the same address. This way, a household of networked computers could run on one game (like the days of yore). The only problem I have with Steam at the moment is that if I buy a game on Steam, my roomie can’t give it a spin. Whereas if I buy a game on disc which doesn’t have a system as insane as SecuROM, he could.

And I’m willing to put money down as a bet that that’ll be the eventual outcome that most people will settle on and become happy with as some kind of middle-ground. It won’t be soon, and given how stubborn companies can be it might even take a decade. But that’s what will likely happen.

Until then, there are cracks. If there aren’t cracks, don’t buy the game. Unfortunately, in this World, money speaks.

I prefer Draicki – where money is considered a pointless allusion to the wonder of life in general, and a trapping of lesser minds who aren’t able to embrace their fellow beings in a grand community who endeavour to press forward on every possible ground of knowledge and culture, for the greater good.

<3 Spore.

10/09/2008 at 01:52 Trousers says:

@esha

Thank you for making some sense out of this and then proceeding to blow my mind.

10/09/2008 at 02:06 Esha says:

@Trousers

You’re quite welcome.

All it really comes down to though is that DRM is today’s square wheel, and considering that I’m not a person of great business acumen I know I’m not the person who’ll show the World that the wheel can be circular, thus improving expedience, efficiency, and improving the state of happiness amongst The People (or at least those that have to pull the cart/carriage).

Every system has its own square wheel to start out with, and it needs to be recognised as just that. It’s not something that any moral practices should enter into, it’s just a square wheel. The only thing for one to do is bide their time and make sure that they aren’t one of those pulling the aforementioned cart, eh?

10/09/2008 at 03:29 perilisk says:

I don’t know about arguments that DRM is a bad idea — DRM doesn’t just fight piracy (if it fights it at all), it also enables companies to extract more money than would otherwise be legally possible from law-abiding customers.It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t stop a single pirate; if the money brought in from making customers buy more than one copy or buy new copies instead of used copies outweighs the money lost by customers avoiding such products or turning to piracy, it’s still worthwhile.

I’m not saying that DRM can’t be simple idiocy — just that there’s a difference between a motive (making money) and a rationalization (stopping piracy). Rationalizations are intended for an audience, or your conscience if you have one. Never attribute to stupidity what can plausibly attributed to a combination of malice and misdirection, especially where government or large businesses (or, particularly, both working together) are concerned.

PS: Unlike games that break due to technical obsolescence, trying to fix a game that broke due to DRM is against the law. The difference does matter.

10/09/2008 at 03:48 Steve says:

If people are so lazy that they base their decision to purchase a game solely on a star rating, they deserve whatever happens to them.

10/09/2008 at 10:02 elmo says:

DRM is needed. I am actually happy when a game has a draconic DRM or it takes the scene groups 2-3 weeks to get a working crack for it because this leaves the devs a window to sell their game without the availability of pirate copies on the net.
I don`t hate piracy, i don`t hate pirates and i don`t think they are thiefs but let the ppl that made it get some sales so they will make another one and put the PC industry in a good light.
As long as i buy the game i can live with any type of DRM. If that DRM really pisses me of than i`m off to torrents. So i am with Alec on this one: let EA get the money, don`t boycott the game just because they are trying to sell their 4 years and millions of $$ investments
EA is as greedy as Activion or Codemasters is. Activision buys a cash cow. Codemasters sue consumers after demanding $$ from them. EA just protect their games. Live with it. Did the DVD have protection ? It did, you could not copy it till someone cracked the prot. Do the PS3 games have protection? They do and nobody is complaining. It`s normal to try to protect your values. I don`t understand why the fuss.

10/09/2008 at 13:39 Shadout says:

elmo says:
DRM is needed. I am actually happy when a game has a draconic DRM or it takes the scene groups 2-3 weeks to get a working crack for it because this leaves the devs a window to sell their game without the availability of pirate copies on the net.

But the point is the draconic DRM doesnt stop the pirates for 2-3 weeks.

10/09/2008 at 18:53 Grant says:

Fine, don’t buy the game yourself or crack it if you’re not happy with the restrictions and privacy violations. Write to EA or trading standards, blog about it, demand there’s a big warning sticker on the box.

Ha ha ha. You don’t think they’d like those things? But EA is not going to give that to them. There is no negotiation between companies like EA and its critics, or at least not until EA thinks those critics have something to barter with.

The 1-star rating is a bartering chip. “We’ll vote your games down to 1 star on Amazon if they ship with DRM” is a pretty powerful message.

So while I kind of understand what your complaint is, you should realize that for a DRM CRUSADER, it doesn’t matter at all. They’re far more interested in promoting social change and protecting their rights online than they are in the sales of a single game.

10/09/2008 at 19:13 Shadowmancer says:

@ Jim Rosignol
that started with HL2 and has continued with Bioshock and Mass Effect

Are you saying you missed out on these games because of the way their DRM worked?

Half life 2 never had drm it had steam since you have to register the game to an account but it still got pirated allong with the orange box on release.

@ Oily “even bought the book”

which one the strat guide or the artbook, I got the both the galactic edition and the artbook today, games good but at the end of the creature stage 2 epic creatures both raided my nest and killed everyone it was funny seen no penis monsters do far but one ufo.

10/09/2008 at 20:59 Esha says:

Instead of not buying games you do like, rather. Oops.

Note to self: Get an account eventually, mgiht be able to edit typos.

10/09/2008 at 22:01 SixStringSamurai says:

seriously, who likes this game? maybe it’s just me not being impressed with the barebones mix of different genres into one game, but i suppose it’s good for a semi-educational childs game.

10/09/2008 at 23:58 mister k says:

Broadly speaking the issue here isn’t whether DRM is right or wrong, but whether it is correct to protest against a product you believe has something vile attached to it by reviewing it badly on amazon. My answer… well yes. If you truly believe that DRM is that awful I see no harm in leaving a one star review, because EA will keep using this set up if it thinks it is not damaging sales. I’ve been put off spore by DRM, which makes me sad, because I would really like to pick it up.

11/09/2008 at 10:07 Kevin says:

I for one stopped buying PC games a number of years ago when I learned about the corporate malware that comes bundled on most if not all of them these days. I don’t want hidden processes running on my computer in the background needlessly consuming resources and opening me up to exploits. I don’t want hidden device drivers being installed on MY computer without MY explicit permission. If they want to use CD-Keys to stop the copying of games, that’s fine with me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad EA is doing this to their customers. This is partly because I’m an evil person, but I also compare the deployment of increasingly invasive forms of shackleware like this to a rubber-band being stretched further and further. Eventually the band will snap and there will be a backlash from consumers against the shackleware. The storm of bad reviews is evidence to support my analogy. This is why I hope for more and MORE restrictions! The more these companies irritate their customers, the sooner the customers will irrupt with rage.

11/09/2008 at 15:09 ripclaw says:

First of all: woah, that’s one long comment thread.
Second: One thing I am missing in the discussion: the anti-one-star group is saying that not only is this behaviour unfair, but to use a “proper” way to voice your anger over DRM publicly. So far I have not seen where this public forum is supposed to be?
Gamesite forums? Nobody outside that particular community cares, neither EA nor the general public.
Newspapers? Don’t care.
Games magazines? Live off ads, are mostly read by “core” gamers who knew it all to begin with.
Quite honestly, as unfair as these reviews are to the developers, who are just pawns in the whole game, Amazon is one of the few sites that is public and general interest enough to actually have some sort of effect. I can see both points: from the developers view this is unfair. But why blame the protesting users? Blame the publisher! This is like people protesting on the street against e.g. layoffs and all you guys can see is that “those idiots are blocking a perfectly good road”.
Plus: just one account means that if I and for example my kids or wife want to play on our own account, we need to purchase a separate copy. How nice.

19/09/2008 at 05:38 Krupo says:

It’s interesting that amazon doesn’t use the vote re-weighing formula tools that imdb.com has deployed, eh?

19/09/2008 at 11:12 Paul Moloney says:

“Just to chime in with an additional, this has spilled over to the recently released Crysis Warhead Amazon page now.”

Oh well, Crytek have announced they’re heading for Console Land now, so PC zealots will have no fear that they are sullied in future by impure DRM restrictions. Of course, they won’t be sullied with any games eithers, but that’s what a scorched-earth policy will get you.

P.