Rock, Paper, Shotgun

27/01/2009 at 14:35 Saul says:

Hasn’t anyone executed Microsoft for crimes against humanity yet? Throw the whole lot of them into a deep blue pool (of death), I say.

27/01/2009 at 14:49 Jp1138 says:

“You don’t get any achievements from your old saves. You have to manually unlock them once you’ve signed in.”

What do you mean with “manually unlock them”? Nor that they are worth a lot, but I would like to unlock all the things I did before moving my saves to the Live acount.

27/01/2009 at 14:54 Garg says:

The guy who ran GFWL was sacked recently http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22009 , so should partially satiate the bloodlust people (rightly) have over the balls up it is.

My anger at GFWL is due to having to spend about half an hour creating mutliple accounts for the Dawn of War 2 beta, and trying to coax it into linking them all together, or linking them to my PC, or some-such.

27/01/2009 at 14:57 unclelou says:

Now isn’t that terrific, I’ve just read that Games for Windows will only let me buy the German version of Operation Anchorage. Not because of legal/censorship issues, mind, but because I have a German account. It will allegedly work with my English version of the game, but it’ll be a language mix-up.

Just let me buy it for *real money* in the version I prefer, eh? Fools.

Oh, and have you ever tried to find a Games for Windows support number? It’s a wasteland – as opposed to the Xbox Live website (where you at least find a number).

27/01/2009 at 14:59 Flappybat says:

John this is exactly the kind of thing we need to see more attention paid to by journalists. Far too often difficulties are swept under the rug.

27/01/2009 at 15:19 pauleyc says:

Thanks for the explanation. Apparently I’m firmly stuck in the old DOS days then. Those were simpler times, one had only to battle the config.sys, EMM and IRQ dragons instead of this GfWL abomination.

27/01/2009 at 15:27 pepper says:

This sounds horribly familiar, now replace it all with Windows Vista and Visual C++ 2008…

27/01/2009 at 15:40 Optimaximal says:

UAC? That’s this hilarious Vista feature that asks your for permission if you as much as look at your files in a funny way, right? I’m one of those users that prefer XP, antique as it may be.

It’s how an operating system should be written – The only reason 90% of the viruses written for XP & its predecessors work is because they can write to core system files because they do it as the user, who is often an administrator because they have to be to do anything. Linux distros and Mac OS X have had process elevation from the beginning, requiring permission to change any critical OS subsystem. UAC is so much bearable in Windows 7 because you can tell it to stop prompting unless altering major ‘i’ll crash if you all this’ system files

Apparently I’m firmly stuck in the old DOS days then. Those were simpler times, one had only to battle the config.sys, EMM and IRQ dragons instead of this GfWL abomination.

So wait, you found working out how EMS worked EASIER than getting GFW running? Having to micromanage everything over 640k is one part of DOS I don’t miss :)

27/01/2009 at 15:45 Theory says:

This sounds horribly familiar, now replace it all with Windows Vista and Visual C++ 2008…

*Remembers installing Vista*
*Remembers installing VC2008*
*Squints a lot*
*Gives up*

VC2005 though, now that was a pain. Dependencies everywhere.

Those were simpler times, one had only to battle the config.sys, EMM and IRQ dragons

On the other hand, malware didn’t really exist and your little sister couldn’t work out how to install things. :-p

27/01/2009 at 15:55 A Delicate Balance says:

Although I was frustrated to find that the DoW II beta wouldn’t just work with Steam and that I’d have to add a whole new bunch of friends just to play a beta for a week, I must say I seem to have avoided most of the proplems people have experienced with GfWL. I don’t know if this is down to running the Windows 7 beta (which is, incidentally, rather good) or just co-incidence, but I’m not complaining on that front.

I do think it’s bloody stupid to charge for DLC like this though, double stupid to pay for it via MS points, quadruple stupid to force you to get it through GfWL and octuple stupid that there are all these problems when you finally succomb to the temptation.

I got Fallout 3 on PS3 though, so my wife could try it. Oh well!

27/01/2009 at 16:10 Rich_P says:

I never thought I’d see the day when I would prefer playing and downloading stuff on a console to a PC.

The sad thing is that it doesn’t have to be like that. Maybe I’m looking too far into it, but paying $50 for Fallout 3 is telling Bethesda that buggy games, DLC!!!1, and GFWL are okay.

I’ll buy Fallout 3 once the platinum collection hits the bargain bin in three years. In the meantime, I’ll support devs who don’t piss all over PC gamers.

27/01/2009 at 16:20 Pags says:

Fallout 3 has proven to be an enormous headache for me too; so much so that I believe I might just leave the DLC well enough alone because I’ve already had my fill of Live issues, incompatibilities, driver issues and general buggerments. Did I tell everyone that the game flat out refused to work until they released the last patch? It just seems ludicrous that until January it was (literally) impossible for me to play a game that had been out since October.

27/01/2009 at 16:22 JonFitt says:

Perhaps the content download could replace the Fallout 3 hacking minigame!

GfWL is the most bizarrely confusing piece of abortware I’ve seen in some time ever. It’s just so unfathomable why they decided to ignore all of the things that have worked in the PC games online space, and produce something that PC gamers can’t use and don’t want.
All they had to do was copy Steam, but link into the XBL back end, and offer platform support for matchmaking. (Which is something L4D could use, Quick Match is not real matchmaking)

I just don’t get it.

27/01/2009 at 16:27 Smurfy says:

I’ll either wait for the “big ol’ pack of DLC” like they did with Oblivion, or bum some “lunch money” off my mum to spend on a Microsoft Points card. I ain’t paying for the privilege of using this GFWL bullcrap.

27/01/2009 at 16:32 HyperKUltra says:

Oh no, Why would Microsoft do ANYTHING competant? After the Vista fiasco and their quick covering of their arses, I thought they had outgrown this sort of bull. BUT NO! I WAS NOT DISSAPOINTED! Microsoft fails to succeed at failing to disapoint.

27/01/2009 at 16:34 James G says:

When the character profile system is already in place within the games, and when using it is much less hassle than the alternative, trying to force all save games into your own personal folder is annoying and unnescessary.

True, but with the security in Windows as it is you don’t have much choice. Games do not as a rule have write privileges in any shared folders, and so either end up using virtualisation (which goes in your documents and settings anyway), or need to run as administrator (which is disruptive, and destroys the whole point of application privileges.) Plus, sticking all documents, data, and settings within your documents and settings folder (or Users in vista) ultimately means that if all developers play ball, you should only have to back up a single directory.

What would be cool is if applications could switch user mid flow, so someone could log themselves on mid-game and it would begin using their settings. Alternatively, I don’t know if there is a way to allow developers to use the Shared folder instead of the individual user folder, this may be what Theory was alluding to.

Also, I can’t help thinking that for compatibility reasons, MS should have give applications write privileges in their own directories. This wouldn’t have been a significant drop in security, and would have removed a lot of confusion.

While the super naggy UAC in Vista was a bit of a mistake, it is a necessary step forward in OS security. From the sounds of it things are a lot better in Windows 7, but I’m afraid that the separation of programs and settings/docs/saves is here to stay.

27/01/2009 at 16:37 unclelou says:

I’ve just read that gamers with the Austrian version are particularly happy. Now the Austrian version is a rather special one, as it has the German voice-acting, but isn’t cut – which is why it also sold well in Germany. They can download Operation Anchorage, but it won’t work, because Betehsda hasn’t released the latest patch for the Austrian version. Oh dear.

27/01/2009 at 16:40 Don says:

One of the first things I did after installing Fallout 3 was to uninstall GFWL whose install I wasn’t allowed to skip. Since I didn’t have a live account all it did was waste time talking to some Microsoft server about nothing useful. Telling my firewall to block it didn’t help either, being a Microsoft special it wouldn’t take no for an answer and just held things up even longer.

So, with quite a few others it seems, I’ll be taking a pass on this. Steam is by no means perfect but Valve seem to have found out that giving away additional content extends the life of a game and encourages new buyers. After all what would rather buy, something like TF2/L4D where there’s a good prospect of new maps etc. appearing at regular intervals for no extra cost or F3 and its ilk where you’ll be gouged for a few extra quid until the law of diminishing returns means the publisher to turn off the tap?

27/01/2009 at 16:45 Theory says:

While we’re talking about writing to the user folder, could developers please start using Vista’s Saved Games folder?

27/01/2009 at 16:55 Briosafreak says:

At least John was able to download the thing, if you are using GfWL instead of the XBox360 LIVE thing then it’s still not available in Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Holland and Japan. Maybe in more territories, I’m trying to find out.

Epic fail for Microsoft.

27/01/2009 at 16:57 phuzz says:

(sorry for double post, no edit to day it seems)
I suspect a lot of the decisions behind gfwl (like compulsory sign in, live points etc.) is because m$ looked at how well Live had worked on the XBox (at least as well as Steam on PC I’d say) and just decided to try and port the whole thing over (then proceeded to do it badly natch).

Also, for everyone moaning about UAC, you realise you can just turn it off right? First thing I did when I installed vista.

27/01/2009 at 17:03 Dan Harris says:

That’s astoundingly poor.

Oddly, I’ve only had one experience with GFWL, and that’s the DoW2 beta. Being an English speaker who uses Vista, getting that going was smoother than a greased piglet. I had to log onto the Xbox website to agree to the new Ts and Cs as I’d not used my GFW account for so long, but that was it.

27/01/2009 at 17:14 Buckermann says:

(Disclaimer: I haven’t read all comments, and I’m probably not the first to say this, but anyway…)

Huzzah for easy downloadable content! That sure will get the pirates to reform their ways. And when you add the 2 hours for installing/downloading all the required software, you easily get FOUR hours of fun for your money.
Well done. I salute you GFWL and Bethesda.

Or maybe not…

27/01/2009 at 17:35 phil says:

Suddenly I wish I’d picked the Nerd Rage perk to properly enjoy this discussion, but no, I had to go for stupid ‘animal friend’ even though I love shooting mole rats.

27/01/2009 at 17:48 SuperNashwan says:

I would’ve given up long before success I think, if there were that many obstacles to getting it I’d just assume they didn’t actually want my cash. I bet you can download it from a naughty site with less hassle…

27/01/2009 at 17:52 ChampionHyena says:

I’m not planning on extolling the craptacularities of GFWL to people who already know far better than I how blowful it is.

I just have a need to insert myself into any discussion where GWAR arises, relevant or no.

27/01/2009 at 18:05 FaceOmeter says:

Have so far managed to avoid owning any GfW titles – am starting to consider turning this happy accident into a deliberate policy. The thing looks positively cancerous! RPS readers: are there no upsides?

27/01/2009 at 18:15 Colthor says:

GfW is only mildly irritating with a few of its criteria, like having to use Vista’s game explorer. Mostly it’s just a pointless label on the box.

GfWL seems to be the main problem, but I happily played Fallout 3 for ~60h without using it once, so that’s OK.

27/01/2009 at 18:24 Shamanic Miner says:

I first ran into GFWL with Viva Pinata whilst recovering from a compound fracture and subsequent metal pin surgery. At the time I couldn’t decide which was more painful.

The arm is fine now.

27/01/2009 at 18:55 Jante says:

Someone asked what modders have accomplished in Fallout 3.

Stuff like this is why I play games on the PC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbyhpsv-6sM

27/01/2009 at 19:13 Korgan says:

SHIT GAME
SHIT DLC
SHIT BETH
SHIT MS
SHIT GFWL
SHIT COMMENTS
Walker, I feel your pain.

27/01/2009 at 20:07 Him says:

*looks up*
Looks like I’ll be part of the crowd waiting to buy it when it comes out on a retail disk, then.
I suppose I could always pirate it in the meantime… I’ll probably just wait until it goes retail, buy it, *then* pirate it. No messing around with silly GfWL schema or DRM systems for me, and Bethesda still get their money.
*sighs*

27/01/2009 at 21:51 Nick says:

Did you try to loadhigh your mouse.exe?

27/01/2009 at 23:28 greengenes54 says:

man I feel for you. I just went through the same bs process to get it as well. now I’ve been waiting 40 minutes to download and only at 18% (yeah slow internet!) I also like how the dlc costs 800 points but you only have the option to add 500 or 1000 points, so now I have 200 useless points that will most likely never be used.
Also, is anyone here having trouble with the GFW browser in the game. it seems to have trouble recognizing which button my mouse is over and i have to press a to actually activate the button rather than recognizing a left mouse click.

28/01/2009 at 01:12 Eamo says:

In other news, Scott Jones of Crispy Gamer admits to secretly liking the Operation Anchorage content but felt compelled to write negatively about it due to peer pressure from other games reviewers.

28/01/2009 at 01:45 Rich_P says:

I’m going to be annoyed if I had to miss out on the next two DLCs because of this, mind.

Fuck ‘em.

Do we know why Bethesda went with GFWL? Did MS hand them a bag of money? Was Steam simply too convenient and widely-used? Or is this part of a wide-ranging conspiracy to make playing PC games needlessly difficult?

28/01/2009 at 02:03 lanster says:

haha this article is rofl material. microsoft, fail.

28/01/2009 at 03:23 Buemba says:

I actually don’t mind being force-fed the GFW overlay on my Steam bought copy of the game. I also don’t mind having to download the GFWL client just to access the store (And nothing else, since it serves no other purpose at all). Hell, I don’t even mind having to pay for this extra mission.

But there’s no way in hell I’m gonna buy 1000 Microsoft funbucks in order to get something that costs 800. Let me pay the exact amount required to get the DLC, charge me in dollars instead of “points” and give me the option to do it either through Steam or Bethesda’s site like the Oblivion DLC did or no deal.

28/01/2009 at 04:50 Grendel says:

GFWL touched me in a bad place, when all I wanted to do was DL Dawn of War II.

I miss the old days when you went through the arcane process of clicking on a link and hitting “OK” to save.

28/01/2009 at 07:07 pepper says:

[i]*Remembers installing Vista*
*Remembers installing VC2008*
*Squints a lot*
*Gives up*[/]

Well, i baught a laptop, all clean without any bulllshit installed(well, a trial of office, first thing i got rid off). And then i tried to install Visual studio 2008 series with the SP1. Turned out this installation is bugged as hell, for what reason i dont know, it has something to do with the .net 3.5 distro which is embedded into VISTA, thus solving this problem is nighly impossible, since any attempt at removing it requires a lot of patience and trying to trick VISTA to believe you can remove it. the MS dev team also knows about the problem only they have no way of solving it, i tried every possible solution found on google and on the MSDN forum.

28/01/2009 at 11:55 Ben says:

I have chosen to comment on this simply because it’s nice to know you’re not alone staring frustratedly at your computer with your head seconds away from exploding after having been forced at knife point to install GFWL for a game that in no way needs, benefits or in any conceivable way is enhanced by its awfulness… and then proceeds not to work because of the very software that they’ve made it mandatory for you to install. Ahhhh…. that feels better already.

28/01/2009 at 12:45 JohnDoe says:

Get this story published on gaming sites, like kotaku for example.

28/01/2009 at 19:55 jalf says:

Theory:

This sounds horribly familiar, now replace it all with Windows Vista and Visual C++ 2008…

*Remembers installing Vista*
*Remembers installing VC2008*
*Squints a lot*
*Gives up*

Ah, you haven’t tried installing MS SQL Server then?
That made me long for the VS2k8 installer.

By the way, fun fact: Running out of diskspace while installing VS *hangs* the process. It doesn’t report an error, it doesn’t terminate or roll back. It just hangs. Have to kill it through Task Manager.

As for gfwl, thanks for the warning. I thought I had low expectations for it after playing DoW2 (my first gfwl experience), but I didn’t realize how much worse it could get.

29/01/2009 at 02:42 Tim says:

I was extremely disappointed to find that GfWL was a necessary part of playing the DoW 2 beta. True, I had no real ‘issues’ installing it (on Windows 7 64-bit and Vista 64-bit), other than the irritation at having to go through a registration process for a piece of software I didn’t especially want, on an incredibly annoying website.

My main issue with it is that it’s simply.. pointless? What is it bringing to the table? How is it enhancing my gaming experience other than adding another overlay to my game? Even for non-Steam users, why must it be compulsory?

29/01/2009 at 03:05 Wintrmute says:

Jaysus.
I read all this, then hopped onto a BT site, and about 10 minutes later had the raw data files on my hard drive, with a text file including instructions to copy them into a subdirectory of Fallout 3, and then launch the game.

If the genuine purchase method is hilariously bad, why would we ever bother with it? Poor Bethesda, I hope they realise this, and don’t just think all PC users simply hate paying for stuff..

29/01/2009 at 12:52 Fuzzypig says:

I ripped F3 off, enjoyed it so much and despite the curse of DRM I went out and bought a retail copy. Played it non-stop for 5 weeks solid now, I am in desperate need of sleep. MS hear this now! I’m buggered if I am going to pay in “funny-money” for you to dick about with my carefully crafted set up. The F3 standalone crashes enough on me, without having you balls up my system32 dir with all your crap DRM gear.

I will wait for the DLCs to be hacked loaded onto my local torrent server. I will then wait for Bethesda to see some f**king sense and release the trio on hard media. Then I can at least still play it in a few years time in VM if necessary, without MS shafting me for 30 quid!

29/01/2009 at 16:17 Paul Moloney says:

I got your story mentioned on Slashdot:

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F01%2F29%2F0840207&from=rss

Hope it did hit your server too hard,

P.

29/01/2009 at 19:35 Ganon255 says:

You sound like a mega-noob. From start to finish I had no troubles at all. Maybe you should go back to console gaming, probably the Wii would be best for you.

29/01/2009 at 22:48 TreeFrog says:

Bought it, played it, finished it. Playing the expansion was no more fun than trying to buy it. It’s riddled with bugs, from trivial up to CTD severity. It’s also not much fun. I can’t even recommend pirating it, it’s that bad.

30/01/2009 at 20:48 Optimaximal says:

Funnily enough, I just installed my review copy of the DLC and it all went rosy… Downloaded it through the pretty poor (but better than EADM) GFW:Live program after putting in my review code, patched F3 and it was sitting there, ready and waiting…

Strange really.

31/01/2009 at 10:40 Funkysandwich says:

What does GFWL stand for?

Someone told me it was Get Fucked Windows Live…

31/01/2009 at 16:45 SmallGods says:

I have to say, I’m a big fan of Betheseda, and I picked up most of the Oblivion offerings when they were released, but that was a gloriously painless process.. (And yes, I payed for the horse armour. And you know what? My horse looked FLY bitches! *gives the world the finger*) But all this malarky? The temptation to just go grab one tiny easy little .esp file is rising rapidly, and this is for a game from one of my favourite developers!

I’m ashamed to admit it, but were it a developer I had less love for, I would have pirating this quicker than you can say “GFWL sucks balls, burn it, BUUUUUUURN IT!!!!!”

03/02/2009 at 17:17 xYz says:

My confession:

I bought F3 over Steam. Caused me quite a grief because it took a while to figure out which version I really get in my country (you know, those english/german translation woes). Anyway. Happy that I bought it, has it quirks, but I’m fine how I spent my money.

The DLC? Over “what”? GWFL? Yet Another account? Steam updates lately and suddenly silently installs me this *thing*? I uninstalled it and F3 didn’t start again? Didn’t auto install it again, had to seek and download from M$ site (first took the wrong version, how should I know?). Later discovered that the right installer files are inside the Steam application directory. How should I know? Read the frightening stories about DLC O:A only available in translated version in those German countries. Wtf? I took great length to assure I do not get such a @#$@& versoin, now this is it? Other issue: I need to buy “points”, but more I need to spend anyway? Ok, nice price probably. But, M$/Bethsoft “I AM NOT INTERESTED!” in yet another account/registration/whatthe%&&#soever.

I downloaded some torrent with the data files, copied them into the right place, voila. No hassle, quick, works and it’s not @#$@#% translated into a language I don’t want (even I’m speaking it native).

I would, but I could not pay. I’m not interesting in yet another account thing, especially not something connected to Microsoft. I made something illegal because there’s basically no other way to get it.

As soon as there’s a sane way I’m happy to spend my money for O:A, consider it paid already.

09/02/2009 at 18:16 fuck this says:

i atleast thought the DLC would be free because its on a fuckin PC (i bought this game for my PS3 no DLC means fuck you!) i pirated the game yesterday it works perfectly then im wonder oh wait isnt a DLC out for it i go and click on downloads oh shit windows live so im like okay ill download the shit downloaded it went onto add on’s what do you know its not there im like okay so i check on google and oh shit microsoft want me too pay for a 3 hour DLC the cost’s a retarded amount and i also cant pay for it up front oh no i have to buy some shitty micro fuckin soft points im going to and search on google for the DLC thank you microsoft for making me waste more of my shitty youth!

14/02/2009 at 12:14 Jack Torrance says:

Had it downloaded and running — relatively painlessly — in about 6 minutes.

…Now what the heck is this “Games for Windows Live” thing everyone is talking about? :P

25/03/2009 at 16:36 Wobbles303 says:

Get F**ked We’re Laughing :D

screw viva pinata, by that name i seriously doubt it has a:
ESRB: M (Mature) BLOOD AND GORE,INTENSE VIOLENCE,SEXUAL THEMES,STRONG LANGUAGE,USE OF DRUGS.
I just started playing Fallout 3 with tons of mods installed, and read on the tweakguides FO3 pages that GFWL actually causes lag and some crash issues on some peoples machines:
http://www.tweakguides.com/Fallout3_3.html

I dont even use it, i mean THIS IS AN OFFLINE GAME!!!!
wtf is the point. achievements? what are they? DLC? you DL it off PB!!
I mean Bethesda should take a leaf out of CDProjekt Reds book in regards to downloading game content (see what i did there :) they made a complete overhaul of the Witcher – which kicked ass to begin with – and put it out for free. Free mods in Oblivion like FCOM actually add more content than any of its DLC!!!
I paid something like 40 quid for the games collector edition box – just the box mind, the wee model broke and i cant find the manual – and now they want more money from me for DLC and putting up with Microshaft!!

I have just deleted the whole GFWL heap of steaming slag, from my puter bot. Now I have to find work arounds for games like dow 2 and gears….

25/03/2009 at 18:34 Wobbles303 says:

AHHAHAH
ok hmm, the from the gamespot review:

“If you’re lucky, you’ll be able to attract pairs of the same breed, who’ll take a shine to each other, as denoted by the universal sign of floating hearts above their heads, and head off into a habitat and…dance. Once their jig, which plays out in an in-game cinematic, is over, a stork will pop by and drop an egg that will contain the fruit of their boogying, a baby piñata.”

Thats the sexual themes i take it.
and:

“You can hire some help to ward them off or handle the job yourself. While you may be thinking your shovel would be the ideal way to deal with the malcontents–piñatas being made for a good bashing and all–you’ll have to be careful, as breaking a sour open in your garden leaves behind bits of corrupting material that could seriously mess up your population. These bad-seed piñatas are led by the antisocial Dastardos, who, with a name like that, is obviously looking to stir up trouble.”

So thats the Gore and intense violence. Great and I guess Rare where off their dial on drugs while making it too… I’ll have to buy it ;D

05/12/2010 at 12:46 uy says:

hey
games for windows live you like