By John Walker on July 2nd, 2009 at 9:14 pm.
Eurogamer conducted a live interview with Mr Tim Schafer this afternoon. You can read the results over here, but a couple of points more pertinent to our fields are highlighted below. The major headline would be: Brutal Legend definitely isn’t coming to PC, despite all our mewling and whining. There’s also some interesting comments about his thoughts on the potential for a Grim Fandango sequel.
So this will probably be the last time we’ll crowbar a reference to Brutal Legend onto the site. Our plan at first was to just assume it would be annouced for PC so nonchalantly that Double Fine would assume they’d made this decision at some point and get on with it. Then it turned to pleading. But when directly asked during the EG live chat, he confirmed it would not:
Gurrah asks: I’ll keep it short: No PC version, why? I’m sad.
Tim Schafer: Well it’s really an action game, that when you play it you’ll see that it was meant to be on a console.
My question is, ‘Why all the hate for consoles?’ If you hate consoles, that means you hate Katamari Damacy, Okami, ICO, and you are in fact a bad person. A bad person who should send all their hate mail to Eurogamer and not to me.
Super Moderating Hero: Cheeky! Will there ever be a PC version? Is there hope?
Tim Schafer: We are really focused on the Xbox 360 and PS3 version right now.
It’s perhaps not the most fortunate reply. While we recognise that some games just are built around a gamepad, and don’t map to mouse/keyboard in a way the developer can support, it would have been perhaps more tactful to explain it like that. There’s no question that PC fanboys have made a loud and unpleasant sound around the subject, and reading through such vitriol and hate can’t have endeared anyone at the developer to considering a port. But such loud-mouthed morons are by far in the minority amongst those who hoped the game would be coming to their chosen platform. I’m sure those who simply don’t own 360s or PS3s would prefer not to be lumped in with the haters. We entirely agree with Schafer’s remarks – people who hate glorious console games are rubbish-faces. They’re just not representative of most PC gamers.
However, let’s not get worked up. The reality is, Brutal Legend is not for PC, which is a shame. The lessons here are: If you believe something enough in your heart it isn’t any more likely to happen, and wanting something enough isn’t enough. And fairies aren’t real.
Later Eurogamer asked how Tim would feel if someone were to remake something like Grim Fandango. It’s awesome to see the passion he still has for the game in his reply.
Super Moderating Hero: Would you like Telltale to remake any other of the games you had a hand in? What about Grim Fandago? Is that a decision you have a say in?
Tim Schafer: I don’t have any say in that, really, since I don’t own that properly. Even though I like those guys, anybody but me making a Grim Fandango game would really make me very sad. Whenever I hear a rumor about someone making Grim 2, I literally can’t sleep that night.
Hard to explain. I feel a very personal connection with those games. That’s one of the main reasons I started Double Fine. So I could have a say in what was done with the characters and worlds we make up. And so with Psychonauts or Brutal Legend, if anything happens with those stories, you know it will come from us!
You can read the rest of the interview here.
02/07/2009 at 21:19 Wazzle says:
Well that’s sort of cold of Mr. Schafer, don’t you think? I mean, unless I’m mistaken, the adventure games he used to make were exclusively for the PC, and now he’s turned his back on it… humph. Well, I never thought the game looked very good to begin with, so there.
02/07/2009 at 21:20 LewieP says:
LewieP confirms “fuck you” to Tim Schafer.
( <3 )
02/07/2009 at 21:22 Dominic White says:
“My question is, ‘Why all the hate for consoles?’ If you hate consoles, that means you hate Katamari Damacy, Okami, ICO, and you are in fact a bad person.”
Amen to that. The PC has its strengths, but if you’re a true gamer, then you’ll cast aside petty bias and enjoy it all.
02/07/2009 at 21:23 Dominic White says:
Seriously, anyone who hates Katamari is a bad person. No arguing with it. It’s a sign that you’ve had your inner child surgically removed by fun-hating robots.
02/07/2009 at 21:24 qrter says:
What if you don’t have the means to cast aside petty bias and enjoy it all?
02/07/2009 at 21:24 Dead Fish says:
sadface… :(
They should just add “Official Xbox 360 Controller” to the minimum requirements and port it over, if that makes em feel better.
I almost want to buy a cheap 360 just for this game. :/
02/07/2009 at 21:25 Serondal says:
This is sad. When I first saw the preview for this game I was very excited (though it didn’t say it would be on the PC at that time) I love Jack Black related humor in small doses and this looked like it would have been really fun and funny.
02/07/2009 at 21:27 bitkari says:
The PC really has become the first wife of gaming.
So many studios have created games with the support and encouragement of PC gamers. They’ve built up their tools, and studios to become world leaders in their field.
But no sooner do they hit the big time when all of a sudden they run off with a pretty 20 year old called Nadine, and leave poor PC alone in the cold.
PC will again have it’s day again, though.
When Xbox contracts a horrible red ring infection, or PS3 really starts to sag in the performance department, the venerable PC and all its virtues will look all the more attractive due to its constant surgery regimen, easy-going nature and
cracking titssorry the metaphor broke down three paragraphs ago, but you get the idea.02/07/2009 at 21:31 Serondal says:
Yah this idea that you can’t port a game over to PC because the controls wouldn’t be right is BS! Mouse and keyboard give you way more freedom than a joypad can AND there are like 900 diffrent joypads you can buy and plug into your PC to play the game with if someone can’t go on with just Mouse and keyboard.
That’s like saying “Well, we didn’t make the Flight Sim for PC because it is hard to fly with a mouse and keyboard” and just totally ignore the fact that there are joysticks out there O.o
02/07/2009 at 21:33 Marty Dodge says:
Ah well, a game that looks interesting that I won’t be bothering with for sure. What a dumb decision.
02/07/2009 at 21:35 pkt-zer0 says:
Bah. Not getting a console just for a single game, even if it’s Brütal Legend.
02/07/2009 at 21:35 ShineDog says:
Serondal, while you are right on the availabilty of pads for the PC, the mouse and keyboard doesnt have more freedom than a joypad, particularly for a brawler like this, for which is almost patently unsuitable.
Can you imagine playing god of war with mouse and keys?
02/07/2009 at 21:35 Sagan says:
Well I’m still hoping that maybe EA will make someone port it to PC.
I don’t have anything against consoles, I just don’t have one. Nothing personal really, but I don’t even have the time to play all the PC games I want to play. Why would I make that problem worse by buying a console?
02/07/2009 at 21:37 pkt-zer0 says:
BTW, Katamari Damacy, Okami, ICO are all PS2 games, so one could still be hating current-gen consoles and be a decent person.
02/07/2009 at 21:38 goodgimp says:
I’d rather pay $50 to take a nap than play this game, so no real loss for me. Sorry for those who were looking forward to it, though.
02/07/2009 at 21:38 Serondal says:
I’ve played every game that comes out on the PC with mouse and keys which includes GTA:SA and Prince of Persia Sands of Time . I obviously have to admit that the keyboard and mouse don’t give you as fine controls when it comes to games where they are required (like games that involve driving where you need exact control of your speed and turns) But a game like this would do just fine with keyboard and mouse. Mindless violence does not require exact controls. I’m guesing the vehicles in the game (if you can actually play driving them) Only have 2 speeds Stop and Go.
02/07/2009 at 21:41 Serondal says:
@tapanister – LMAO, you paint a horrible picture indeed with the situation you describe and I hope it befalls him as well. If not that I hope Lucas Arts sells it to Cartoon Network and redoes the entire game with Grim from Billy & Mandy.
02/07/2009 at 21:41 skizelo says:
I don’t hate games on consoles: they’re just lost, the poor dears. And I’m choosing to interpret “We are really focused on the Xbox 360 and PS3 version right now” as a declaration that it will eventually find it’s way home.
02/07/2009 at 21:42 Lack_26 says:
@bitkari,
I think it’s time PC gaming started sleeping with that lovely Doctor next door.
02/07/2009 at 21:43 DMJ says:
Because action games never work on PC.
Hmph.
Is this a new marketing thing? Like the opposite of a platform exclusive? A platform exclusion? Coming soon, to all platforms EXCEPT PC.
02/07/2009 at 21:45 LewieP says:
wanting a game to be available on your preferred platform, and “hating” other platform(s) are completely different things.
02/07/2009 at 21:45 Bremze says:
Well the game seemed nice until I found out Jack Black is involved with it, so this doesn’t bother me.
02/07/2009 at 21:46 subedii says:
I realise he’s not a diplomat or anything, but with an answer like that I’m not surprised that nerdrage soon followed.
Ah well, Guess I’ll have to console myself (unintentional pun, I promise ) with the fact that despite it was DEFINITELY not made with the PC in mind, SFIV is en-route.
I just think it would have been better all round if he had given the honest answer of “We don’t believe it would be financially viable to port, we just don’t think it’d make the money back, it’s not that kind of game that typically does well on the platform”. Rather than the troll bait response of how you must be a console hater instead. Yes I realise it was meant to be a joke response, but it’s not as if the guy asking the question was particularly impolite, it would have been fair to give him a decent answer.
02/07/2009 at 21:46 Serondal says:
BTW Tim Shafter (lmao) Psychonauts sucks and deserved to fail.
02/07/2009 at 21:46 DMJ says:
Simultaneous launch for the PS3, Xbox360, and Wii are planned, along with a ‘stripped down’ version for the PSP and DS. Rumours that the game will also be adapted for the iPod, home DVD players and Samsung microwaves are unconfirmed.
02/07/2009 at 21:46 Nimdok says:
It’s less about bias and more about MONEY. I have a PC. I don’t have a PS3 or Xbox360. I am not going to shell out 300-400 dollars, or even 200, just to pay another 50-60 for a game I want to play; I’ll go without rather than wasting the money.
02/07/2009 at 21:48 Vinraith says:
“Brutal Legend is not coming to PC”
Then why do I give a shit about it?
02/07/2009 at 21:50 Eli Just says:
Sucks for him, cus I wanted to buy it, and now I wont. And if it’s released 6 months late on pc, I’ll probably pirate it. I hate devs treating the PC like a second string platform. I don’t own a console and I don’t want to, because they’re worse than PC. I can plug a controller into my PC, I can’t really use a keyboard and mouse on a console (except UT3 on PS3). His excuse is total BS, so fuck paying for his shit.
02/07/2009 at 21:50 MrBejeebus says:
I’m dissapointed its not on PC, its my preferred platform, seems like “I’ll have to break my I’m not going to buy any more console games” vow…
02/07/2009 at 21:53 John Walker says:
Well, with comments as erudite as Serondal’s, and indeed those I’ve deleted for being filled with sweary awfulness, whatever could Schafer have been thinking?!
02/07/2009 at 21:55 Serondal says:
I saw a “making of” show on G4 that showed this team making Pyschonauts from start to finish (shipping it off to be pressed or something) Based on that I can tell you, in my opinion the company as a whole is totally unprofessional. The honest reason that they’re not going to do a PC port is probably that they lack the skill/man power/ and money to attempt it. It takes a lot more testing and optimization to make a PC game.
02/07/2009 at 21:58 Vinraith says:
@John Walker
Personally, I blame the poster that accused non-console gamers of being bad people for starting the flame war. You should delete that guy’s comments.
02/07/2009 at 21:58 Dead Fish says:
If Capcom can release Street Fighter IV next week, then how does Schafer’s argument hold up at all? Both games “were meant to be on a console” and yet SF4 is going to have an audience on the PC while BL doesn’t get that chance. EA just hasn’t figured it out yet.
02/07/2009 at 21:58 Serondal says:
I was being sarcastic Walker, to a certain point. I honesly didn’t like the game though, and it did sell poorly even though it was reviewed well and got awards ect.
02/07/2009 at 22:00 Heliocentric says:
Eat a poo Schafer, i don’t hate consoles, the ds lite is a fucking masterpiece and the n64 and snes have some of the all time best games ever. Its just the 360 has all its best titles ported+extra fee’s for multi and the ps3 is a mess, neither have a control method which suits the precision i’ve come to expect from controllers(but the ds does) and the games are over priced and dependant on physical media, not to mention the dependency of playing on a television which is a poor mans monitor.
But no, instead i’ll just tell you to eat a shit and confirm that i’m just a hater because i play on a pc, bravo.
02/07/2009 at 22:00 Vinraith says:
@Serondal
Yup, and if he’d said “we don’t have the resources” instead of trolling PC gamers, there’d be less flaming and more people interested in his next project.
02/07/2009 at 22:00 Nighthood says:
I was semi interested in this game, now I’m not. One little observation is that Schafer seems to WANT to be a wanker by basically saying the PC can’t handle action games, which is an obvious lie, as it has for years. It sounds like they couldn’t afford to put it on PC, and just won’t back down and admit it. Either that or he’s trying to woo the console fans by insulting the PC like they do. A shame really.
02/07/2009 at 22:01 distended says:
Honestly, I don’t really see the big story is. There are loads of console-only games out there, including some good ones, so why the debate about this particular game (which, if I’m honest, does sound quite console-y)?
02/07/2009 at 22:02 Serondal says:
That’s the first time I’ve ever been called erudite sarcastically and I must say it stings. If I weren’t at work I’d be crying more than I already am.
02/07/2009 at 22:08 Tei says:
The consoles can have all the dumbified games. Third Person Shotters with Quick Time Events. Movie tie-ins. And games that are just bad. I laught at trash like Gears of War.
Is the God of War 2 and Mario Galaxy that we are losing, and are good games. But he!.. If you really miss these titles, you can always buy a WII or a PS2. Or play these games in the house of a friend.
I hate the consoles because I love freedom.
You can’t have freedom in the console market. The creator of the console rules over what you can run and what you can’t run. This is deal-break to me. But is worst than that. These creators don’t let people modify the games thenselves. The console is much like a “black-box” where only approved games can run. I don’t understand how other people approve such scheme, but to me is intolerable.. and something that sould be illegal.
Ok, I do understand why other people can tolerate something like that. People withouth creative feelings can use a consoles in a act of “consumism”. Microsoft/dice or other company create a experience, and the guy “consume” it. That’s is. With no control over the experience. If you want to change the FOV of the game, you are f****, If you want to change the resolution, remove the gloom, or replace the models of the women NPC’s, so all are naked, you can’t. But people don’t seems to need that.
02/07/2009 at 22:08 Dante says:
@ Wazzer
“I mean, unless I’m mistaken, the adventure games he used to make were exclusively for the PC, and now he’s turned his back on it… humph. Well, I never thought the game looked very good to begin with, so there”
I think that’s the point, those games belonged on the PC and were PC only, this game belongs on a console and is console only.
Personally I would rather play a third person action game on a console, just like I’d rather play an RTS on a PC, it just makes sense that way.
02/07/2009 at 22:10 Heliocentric says:
Its an issue because the man used to be a bedrock source of excellent design (if not implementation) on the pc. Now he’s following his money masters to rrp $60 land, i hope the game crashes and burns. Not out of bitterness, just so we can have him back, or he can develop for the ds, thats good too.
02/07/2009 at 22:11 Archonsod says:
Meh. Looks like a generic third person actioner with that annoying fat American I’d like to punch in the face. Repeatedly.
As for a metal game, they’ve yet to beat Ed Hunter …
02/07/2009 at 22:12 Bulstrode says:
Awww, it’s not that I hate PS3 and 360, I just don’t have a PS3 or 360. Curses, Tim Shafer!
02/07/2009 at 22:14 Gap Gen says:
I would be tempted to buy a 360 for this. Like I’m so, so tempted to buy a DS so I can play Scribblenauts.
02/07/2009 at 22:14 Citizen Parker says:
Despite explaining himself somewhat poorly, I think they are making the right business decision. Given the commercial success of previous Double Fine projects, I would put all of my eggs in one basket and focus on making it great, rather than expend development time on a smaller market or sub-contracting the PC port.
The former reduces your overall likelihood of success, and the latter runs the risk of tarnishing their carefully-crafted image. Once they become very successful on consoles, that might be the time to consider expanding into the PC sphere. (see also: Valve)
Just because I agree with him doesn’t make me like the end result any more, however. `Tis a shame.
02/07/2009 at 22:15 Serondal says:
@Archonsod – I’m in the game?!?! WTF mate
02/07/2009 at 22:15 MS says:
“The consoles can have all the dumbified games.”
You know, I see this brought up in many of the odd “console vs. pc” flame wars. I’m curious: what exactly qualifies as being a “dumbified” game for consoles?
02/07/2009 at 22:17 elmuerte says:
I don’t hate consoles. I hate paying a shit load of money for games just because the console makers need a return on the hardware. Also, I don’t see why I would spend money to buy a console just to play games. I have a perfectly working computer on which I can play games. I would also need to buy a TV to hook up the console to.
Not saying I won’t buy a console ever, just saying I’m not planning to buy one in at least the next 4 months.
02/07/2009 at 22:17 Nick says:
Eh, the only games that “belong” on a console are multi person in the same room games.. sofa gaming. Action game requiring gamepad should work exactly the same on a PC or console.. shirley?
02/07/2009 at 22:18 pilouuuu says:
Am I a bad person? I don’t think so, because I feel really sorry for having to day this words: “Damn you, Tim!”
02/07/2009 at 22:21 DK says:
“My question is, ‘Why all the hate for consoles?’ If you hate consoles, that means you hate Katamari Damacy, Okami, ICO, and you are in fact a bad person. A bad person who should send all their hate mail to Eurogamer and not to me.”
That’s all well and good Shaefer, but it’s NOT AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.
There is no such thing as a “console” game – PC’s have had gamepads for ages. “Why do you hate consoles” is not an answer to the question of “why not release it on PC”.
02/07/2009 at 22:21 Serondal says:
I don’t understand that idea either Nick as most PC’s can accept more than one controller infact they could have more controllers than any console if you had a USB hub. There is no reason for a game on Consoles to not appear on PC other than the cost of development for a PC game being hired do to the wider range of hardware specs on PCS compared to consoles.
02/07/2009 at 22:21 Nick says:
Also if it were digitally distributed on PC there wouldn’t have been these publisher issues.
So there,
02/07/2009 at 22:22 The_B says:
I’m still filled with the blind and baseless hope that he still didn’t say it would never come to PC. Even if it’s next October.
02/07/2009 at 22:27 Jazmeister says:
I don’t think /any/ game just wouldn’t work on a PC. PCs are, you know, really powerful. You plug gamepads into them. I mean, is it just a headache, is it the piracy, is it some kind of exclusivity? Surely it’s not just “pfffft this game wouldn’t work on your strange little digital typewriters”, right?
02/07/2009 at 22:28 tapanister says:
“Well, with comments as erudite as Serondal’s, and indeed those I’ve deleted for being filled with sweary awfulness, whatever could Schafer have been thinking?!”
Oh come on John. Yes, comments like the one I posted which got deleted are crass, but seriously, Tim Shafter is who he is because people like most of us pc guys were buying all his games back in the early 90s, when the only console alternative was the Snes and Megadrive and those guys wouldn’t even touch his games but all of a sudden the PC’s not good enough for him?
That’s bullshit, let us rage.
02/07/2009 at 22:28 Gurrah says:
It’s funny how I actually started a console vs. PC discussion again by asking the very simple and honest question why his newest game is not being published for PC, which I just found a bit weird given his background. Furthermore I felt his first answer wasn’t really a proper answer, saying action games don’t belong to the PC is a bit narrow minded in my humble opinion. And the second answer I took a bit personal because I didn’t give Mr. Schafer any reason to assume that I’m one of the people who bugged him with e-mails stating that consoles are sh*t. I for one would have loved to play all the games he mentioned, but I don’t really have the cash to operate two or more systems simultaneously. All in all I just wanted an honest answer as to why it’s not being developed for the PC apart from the clichéd piracy and the PC is dying arguments.
But I am quite happy to have made into an RPS post, yay me! ;)
02/07/2009 at 22:31 pilouuuu says:
Is this really the same guy that gave us Grim Fandango?
And I don’t hate console games. I hate consoles! I admit there are some lovely games like God of War III and Little Big Planet which I would like on the PC and I would like more accesible fun action game on the PC.
What I don’t like is all the dumbing down, the checkpoints and the fact that some dumb developers (oh, really sorry, Tim!) don’t make PC versions of good games which whatever stupid argument they give.
Didn’t I heard before that the Force Unleashed couldn’t be on the PC because the PC wasn’t powerful enough? That takes me to another complain.
In fact console owner are elitist themselves. With all that BS that their machines are “next-gen” and though the PC can already have much better graphics.
I would be really sad about this, but I’m not, because to be honest I’m much more interested in Tales of Monkey Island than in this game.
02/07/2009 at 22:32 Steve says:
Well, that sucks. Nice to know you care about people who bought Psychonauts, Tim. I am disappoint.
02/07/2009 at 22:32 tapanister says:
Man and aren’t the excuses getting weaker by the year. Like when Lucasarts was like “oh we can’t release The Force Unleashed on the pc because it would require a mainframe to get good graphics at it”. LMAO.
Actually, no, that’s still the worst excuse for not porting to the PC I’ve heard, but the game sucked so nobody cared.
02/07/2009 at 22:33 DSX says:
“an action game [...] was meant to be on a console.”
What a moron.
Here’s the real answer: “Our developers are contractually bound by their respective marketing and publishing departments to produce content only for Xbox and PS3. The PC doesn’t represent a corporate entity who can provide solid sales and distribution metrics and pressure us into gambling on breaking even or even potentially profiting. Oh and because I have no penis.”
02/07/2009 at 22:35 Theoban says:
I find his argument to be a bit strawman-esque. I think a lot of PC gamers are PC gamers because of that’s what they grew up with. It’s certainly the case for me. And usually you can enjoy most games on your PC that you can on any console.
Also it’s a cost thing. If you’re going to shell out €1000 for a decent PC, you’re not really going to be running around shelling out another €1000 for an XBOX 360 and a PS3.
He’s right that PC gamers shouldn’t hate console owners, it’s just a different medium after all. Just the way he’s expressed this is ill conceived.
And his reasoning about action games ‘belonging’ on a console is a very, very odd statement.
Some PR person is probably shouting at him as we speak.
02/07/2009 at 22:36 Urthman says:
I don’t hate Ico and Katamari Damacy and Okami. I play them (as well as God of War and Shadow of the Colossus) on my PC with the emulator PCSX2.
Katamari in particular plays much better on a PC because you can map the keys so you can control the entire katamari with just the arrow keys (instead of having to use the original two-handed tank controls). That and being able to use quicksave allows you to complete some of the harder tasks (like rolling up the giant flaming cowbear) even if you don’t have the free time of a teenager.
Shame on you, Mr. Shafer. If I can play Prince of Persia and Assassin’s Creed and Psychonauts and Spider-Man on PC with my keyboard, there is no way your precious Brutal Legend can’t be played with that way. That’s just ignorant, lazy, nonsense.
Oh well. I’ve got plenty of great games to play. You’re the one losing a sale.
02/07/2009 at 22:36 Steve says:
I think you made a little typo there.
02/07/2009 at 22:37 Theoban says:
Although having read the comments above I might reconsider my point of view. Computer game elitism is never a pretty sight.
02/07/2009 at 22:38 nihohit says:
People, we are talking about Tim “OMG it’s tim schafer!” Schafer here.
Give the guy some slack. Yeah, it sucks that we won’t get the game (at least at from the get-go. here’s hoping for a late port), but if there’s one developer out there that is “the good guys”, it’s Double Fine.
The people who did Psychonauts cannot be wrong. It’s the law. If they have solid reasons to believe that porting the game to a PC will not be worth it, let them. I’d prefer them to continue making excellent games for any console rather than losing money on making them for every console.
02/07/2009 at 22:39 pilouuuu says:
This have been some crazy days…
I actually think Lucasarts redeemed theselves after the Force Unleashed fiasco by releasing both Tales of Monkey Island and Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition and now Tim Schaffer makes an action game and thinks PC is not good enough for him.
Lucasarts apparently came back to the Light Side and Tim Schaffer goes to the Dark Side. Does that bring balance to the Force?
02/07/2009 at 22:42 pkt-zer0 says:
“I think that’s the point, those games belonged on the PC and were PC only, this game belongs on a console and is console only.”
Isn’t The Secret of Monkey Island one of “those games”? The same Monkey Island that’s getting a remake released on XBLA in the near future?
02/07/2009 at 22:43 Serondal says:
I’m still concerned over the idea that Starwars is actually a story about the Jedi being the bad guys and the Sith being the good guys and people just don’t realize it. When they say Anakin is the one who will bring balance to the force it is actaully true, it’s not Luke at all! On a 1 to 1 ratio Anakin with the Emperors help killed all but 2 JEdi (Obi-wan and Yoda) bringing the force to balance. Then when Luke came about he killed Obi-Wan (bringing the force to balance AGAIN) then when Yoda died of natural causes he killed the Emepror bringing the force to balance ONCE MORE! Then he died :( WTF? He should have stayed around with Luke and ruled the galaxy with a totally balanced force making choices together that were neither Light or Dark, but some where in between which is what reality demands!
ANY HOW!
02/07/2009 at 22:43 GibletHead2000 says:
I don’t hate Katamari. I’m sad because there isn’t a PC version of that too. *sadface* — Also Wipeout.
I’d love to play Katamri, ICO, Wipeout, et al., but I only have room in my life for one gaming device, and that’s my PC.
Admittedly I don’t hate consoles… I just don’t want one.
02/07/2009 at 22:44 Moorkh says:
Don’t hate the games. Hate the consoles.
Oh, and every single person who ever made a decision that strenghtened consoles as a gaming platform over pcs, too.
02/07/2009 at 22:45 James G says:
Well that’s a bit of a shame.
Unfortunately I can’t really justify a console, as the number of games I wish to play on them, which don’t also appear on PC, are vanishingly small. Furthermore, although I did pick up a Wii, it doesn’t get a whole lot of use, even for games which are genuinely decent. (The DS however gets a bit more use. I think its a convenience thing.)
That said, I have been vaguely tempted to pick up a cheap PS2.
02/07/2009 at 22:48 Jockie says:
I’m not angry, i’m just disappointed. – My history teacher used to say that to me when i didn’t do homework. It applies here, though I suspect deep down I’m very angry.
02/07/2009 at 22:51 kevlar says:
I’m sure if Schafer was reading these comments his heart would be breaking. Oh, if only they were spending all the resources to make a PC version for all you PC-exclusive players. Then it would sell 12 copies, and pirated a couple hundred thousand times while you all say it’s a crappy port or there was no demo or whatever nonsense. But at least your feelings wouldn’t be hurt and that’s the important thing.
02/07/2009 at 22:51 D says:
I’ll just break the news early. Grim Fandango 2 coming out on all platforms, except PC which it is not suited for as it is a “game” and not a “sim.”
02/07/2009 at 22:53 Okami says:
Some (most) of the comments here make me want to turn in my pc for a mac book and swear to only ever play games on consoles again for the rest of my life. I might even get Nintendo tattooed on my forehead.
02/07/2009 at 22:56 pilouuuu says:
@ Serondal: I also agree that Anakin is the one that brought balance to the Force. I don’t think he could be alongside Luke after killing the Emperor anyway, because even if he redeemed himself, he made some horrible decisions in his life and killed a lot of good people, so he could only be completely free from all tha evil by becoming an spiritual being.
@ James G: yes, just look at this example if you had a console, again about Monkey Island. If I want to play Tales of Monkey Island I need a Wii, which I found is the most worthwhile console, because it complements the PC, not tries to compete with it. It’s almost like a toy.
But if I want to play TSOMI Special Edition I need and XBOX 360! So I need two consoles to play both Monkey Island games! And a PC too because I can’t type my writings, make my work, surf (appropiately) the web and make lots of other useful stuff that the PC does.
Really, consoles (maybe except the Wii which is different) are stupid. Why would I buy a machine just to play when I can have a PC in which I can play and do other useful stuff, have my media and information stored on it with much more storage stuff, etc, etc, etc.
Really, Tim. Try to run Office Word on your XBOX 360. You don’t deserve to use a PC!
02/07/2009 at 22:57 bhlaab says:
Calm down, he didn’t confirm no brutal legend for PC ever. Just not right now. Same as every other game that’s cross platform, the consoles get it first and then the people who aren’t idiots get it later, at a lower framerate, with showstopping crashes, and DRM (but a further draw distance to smooth over those bumps).
What I’m getting at is I’m sure it’s going to happen sooner or later, especially if the game sells well, which it probably would if it was on Steam and not laying underneath a used copy of Perfect Dark Zero in a large plastic bin in Gamestop
02/07/2009 at 23:01 Urthman says:
I’d love to play Katamri, ICO, Wipeout, et al., but I only have room in my life for one gaming device, and that’s my PC.
If you’ve got a newish PC, you could give PCSX2 a try.
02/07/2009 at 23:01 bhlaab says:
I’m sure if Schafer was reading these comments his heart would be breaking. Oh, if only they were spending all the resources to make a PC version for all you PC-exclusive players. Then it would sell 12 copies,
As opposed to all those console gamers who are looking for unique indie gems, and who made Psychonauts the game that held Xbox afloat.
BUHHHHHHHHHHH
Yeah, anybody who’s played the port of GTA4 knows that PC gamers are spoiled ROTTEN.
02/07/2009 at 23:01 TCM says:
The PC gets the same respect as a console from me. PC tends to have way more shovelware on it than consoles, and way more bits of tripe, but the gems are far better then their console counterparts.
02/07/2009 at 23:02 rocketman71 says:
It’s an action game?. So what?. Don’t we have action games on the PC?. Does any bullshit excuse cut it these days?. Say EA won’t let you do a PC version (yet, at least) and that’s it.
Tim, Tim, Tim. Dammit.
02/07/2009 at 23:03 Serondal says:
I honestly think the game will probably do well since it is console only. Those people just buy games without even looking at what they’re buying and if they just put Jack Black on the cover slightly disguise as a cartoon they will buy it.
@Pilouuuuuuuuuuu – True, he did kill children after all.
02/07/2009 at 23:06 Tei says:
Re: “If you hate consoles, that means you hate Katamari Damacy, Okami, ICO, and you are in fact a bad person.”
I like Katamari, and hate consoles consoles. The reason is that consoles destroy your freedom to change the games. But I guest a designer will never understand or like the idea of players changing the games.
AND I HAVE NEVER PLAYED RISK WITH THE OFFICIAL RULES, BECAUSE THESE SUCK!
02/07/2009 at 23:06 runcrash says:
This is sad but not entirely unexpected news.
Of course there have been several recent games were an unannounced PC port comes out six months down the line.
02/07/2009 at 23:06 Gnarl says:
See how not enjoyijng into Psychonauts was the smart move for non-console owners? Long-term thinker, that’s what I am. Also, I don’t think that he’s betraying his heritage or anything. It’s a product, not a child.
02/07/2009 at 23:10 TCM says:
@rocketman
“Don’t we have action games on the PC?.”
Yes, and they invariably have horrible controls for those without access to gamepads. And horrible glitches and crashes not present in the console games. And no functionality whatsoever that makes them better than console games.
02/07/2009 at 23:11 runcrash says:
Also from Double Fine’s website:
“What? No PC version? I’ve always hated you, Double Fine! Now I know why.
Please, no hate. No one ever said there WASN’T going to be a PC version.”
Enjoy.
02/07/2009 at 23:11 Ashurbanipal says:
Tim Schafer doesn’t belong to me. He can do as he wishes.
I am disappointed though in that I only have room in my life for a PC, and would like to play his game. And yes, sometimes rather enviously consider the titles Schafer mentions.
02/07/2009 at 23:11 Sinnerman says:
I like Tim Schafer and I think that his games are excellent. There, I’ve said it now and I don’t care who knows!
02/07/2009 at 23:12 WarFalci says:
Great decision, Tim. Here’s hoping that this game will achieve exactly everything that Psychonauts achieved.
And remember: 10 to 15 years from now I’ll be playing your game, emulated on my PC.
With a keyboard. And a mouse.
(And I do hope I can get a legal copy of it by then)
02/07/2009 at 23:12 Vinraith says:
@TCM
“without access to game pads” ?
Let me get this straight, you can afford a $500 console but not a $20 USB controller?
02/07/2009 at 23:14 Aftershock says:
WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE STARVING UNI STUDENTS WITH NO MONEY FOR A CONSOLE.
Dangnammit.
02/07/2009 at 23:15 Mad Doc MacRae says:
I’m confused why the question was “why the hate for consoles”? Why the hate for PC? I mean, there’s plenty of love for consoles if you’re making games for them…
02/07/2009 at 23:15 SteveHatesYou says:
I’m sure that if the publisher was keen enough on doing a PC port, they’d be doing one.
02/07/2009 at 23:16 jalf says:
Because that’s such a measured and sensible comment compared to the ones you’re responding to. At least the PC gamers have a reason to act up. What’s yours? Just trolling?
Seems a bit childish, all this “I’m a better gamer than you, and my platform could beat up your platform, and because I play games on more platforms than you, I’m even more superior”.
Come on, get a grip, people. He doesn’t want people who don’t have a console to play his game. Fine, big deal. I’m not convinced it’s a good business decision (delaying the PC port is probably justifiable), but it’s just a game.
And I’m amazed I have to point this out, but just because some of us only play games on PC doesn’t make us “lesser gamers”. Perhaps it’s not fanboyism but economy. Perhaps we can’t afford to spend $700 buying 3 consoles on top of our PC. Or perhaps we have a DS. Perhaps we have a Wii, which isn’t getting the game either.
Lay off the elitism, please. Whether or not you’re saying “PC is awesome”, or “”Real gamers have consoles as well as PCs”.
It doesn’t make you look cool. It is childish.
02/07/2009 at 23:18 Bhazor says:
Reading the comments of that petition post (linked in the article) is painful. Boo to elitism!
02/07/2009 at 23:21 Quests says:
Wonderful!!! Thank you Mr. Schafer.
PC with adventures, Consoles with action-games. That’s the message. Got it potential pc buyers? You are not going to play action games! Go buy the console, instead, leave us with our RTS and old adventures.
02/07/2009 at 23:23 Jahkaivah says:
One of these days I will syphon the “no such thing as meant for consoles” gene out of my veins and forcefeed it to every living being on the planet. So that whatever the hell causes people to be unable to operate a game on a platform designed to operate whatever become incomprehensionable.
What about Psychonauts? Some would say that was “meant for consoles”, because you did this thing called jumping that’s somehow considered a console thing for some reason, and us PC gamers still loved the ever-living crap out of it.
02/07/2009 at 23:28 Nighthood says:
Thing is, some people aren’t elitist, they just don’t own a console. I am one of those people, and I don’t feel I suffer because of it.
02/07/2009 at 23:28 mirautaj says:
@Dominic
Comments like these are always targeted at PC gamers. You don’t hear game devs saying that every gamer should have gaming pc.
Hell, this is what Capcom PR guy said, when they announced RE5 PC
“Although I personally am no longer a PC gamer (turns out that 7-year-old Alienware rigs don’t run 2009 games that well) there are still lots and lots of you console haterz out there. Good news, Windows nerds, Capcom is finally gonna give you some love for those dual $700 3D cards you shelled out for. Starting in July, we’re going to roll out Street Fighter IV and Bionic Commando on PC, followed in the fall by… wait for it… Resident Evil 5!”
02/07/2009 at 23:30 Quests says:
For all those who wanted this game for PC too only because they don’t wanna spend their money for videogames they’d rather buy the new cellphone… shame on you, forever.
02/07/2009 at 23:31 Geoff says:
Wow, this is pretty sad. After Walker went to all that trouble of putting in a nice disclaimer saying “there’s some people who don’t own consoles, but also aren’t bile-spewing haters”… It seems like the forum attempts to prove him wrong.
Add me to the list of those who love PC gaming, but also buy consoles and console games.
02/07/2009 at 23:33 Dexton says:
“it was meant to be on a console.”
What a load of rubbish, the only thing a console has going for it is the controller and since the xbox 360 controller also plugs straight into a PC it doesn’t even have that anymore. I believe that applies to all games, not just the new Jack Black vehicle or whatever it is.
Flimsy excuse for a developer not to develope on the PC, if he had said “too hard” and “not enough money in it” then I would have accepted that as it’s probably true. “meant to be on a console” is just rubbish.
02/07/2009 at 23:36 Quests says:
The message is that in such times of flat games made for a MASS of homogeneous-headed robot players, the 2 platforms must instead hold on to their healthy differencies… different attitudes, different commitment… and both good, for different reasons.
Wonderful, a lesson to live by.
02/07/2009 at 23:37 Sithinious says:
Damn. I really wanted this to be on the PC too.
“Well it’s really an action game, that when you play it you’ll see that it was meant to be on a console.”
Hello?!? Ever play Prototype on the PC?? Absolutely ROCKS.
02/07/2009 at 23:37 Asshat says:
Perhaps Grim Fandango was on the PC because it was the best platform for it and this is being published for the consoles because they’re better suited for it?
02/07/2009 at 23:38 FuKuy says:
So action games are only for consoles?
Then…. adventures, rpg, mmorpgs, simulators, shooters and rts are only for PCs, right?
02/07/2009 at 23:40 Stabby says:
Oh well. I’m not really sure what the action game reference is all about, seems like a really weak excuse. I would ask him, “Why all the PC hate?” I’m not against this on console, but I see no reason not to make a PC version other than somebody is paying them a truckload of money to make it exclusive.
If it is released for PC, I’ll get it. Otherwise, not so much (because I don’t have any consoles).
02/07/2009 at 23:41 invisiblejesus says:
While I’m definitely not advocating jumping on the console hate bandwagon, let’s have a little reality check here. There are a metric fuckton of console gamers out there with the exact same attitude toward PCs and PC gamers, and they seem to be getting their way (games released on consoles but not PC) more often than the console bashing crowd does. Juvenile behavior is not a platform-exclusive release. :P
Also, you can easily pick up a used third party 360 controller in fine working condition for $15 these days. I have one connected to my PC and it works beautifully for games where it is appropriate. So yeah, whatever else you might think, saying that somehow gaming PCs can’t handle an action game or that PC gamers are unable to get ahold of the proper controller at a reasonable price is just flat-out factually incorrect. It is not a matter of opinion, it’s just wrong.
02/07/2009 at 23:41 Dys says:
There are some games which feel better on a console. I’ll never feel comfortable playing Final Fantasy on a PC, it’s just not right on some level. In the same way, the only decent FPS I can recall on any console was Timesplitters, though it’s been a long time since I had any console, the PS3 being expensive and useless, and the Xbox being… well, evil.
But if Devil May Cry 4 can be made into a playable, indeed excellent, game on PC, so can damn near anything. All it takes is work. And money. And time.
In many cases it makes more sense financially to ignore a PC release. That’s true, no matter what you might like to think. The extra dev time needed for a pc port may well just not be worth it.
Nonetheless this feels like a body blow. I’ve been looking forward to Brutal Legend from the moment I first heard of it, and now… just… damn. :<
02/07/2009 at 23:44 LionsPhil says:
I thought it was established by this point that Mr Schafer had, in fact, lost it?
I mean, dodgy platformers? Beat-’em-ups? Way to hide a knack for writing behind completely the wrong genres, dude. The Psychonauts demo was most amusing, but the actual game part was a massive turn-off.
02/07/2009 at 23:45 Noc says:
In other news, “Teacup Shitstorm” is a fantastic band name.
02/07/2009 at 23:45 Serondal says:
What is this idea that Action games don’t exist on PCs? You do realize that FPS games fall under that heading as well and with the likes of Arm A 2 , Crysis, Farcry 2 , Halflife 2 ect there are TONS of action games on the PC. Over Lord 2, Ghost Busters, all the Battlefield games, call of duty games so on and so forth (some of which are 3rd person some of which aren’t, being 3rd person has nothing to do with action)
02/07/2009 at 23:49 Flappybat says:
I don’t understand why it’s cast as a “hating consoles” issue. I have all systems, PC, 360, Wii and PS3 but I buy 90% of my games on the PC as it’s my preferred platform. Much better graphics (compare PC Mirrors Edge to PS3, massive difference), easier to keep in touch with everyone through things like Xfire or Steam overlay more flexible save games and best of all, it’s £10-20 cheaper than console releases.
Dys is right too. Capcom are putting their games properly on the PC now, Capcom! You can’t get much more console hardecore than that and they manage to treat the PC properly as a platform.
02/07/2009 at 23:53 Fat says:
I’ve never understood the ”this was made to be on a console” lines. You have hundreds of choices when you’re picking a controller/arcade stick, etc, for PC… the consoles have just the ‘regular’ stock ones and some (mostly rubbish) 3rd party ones.
Whereas some games like RTS/FPS are much better on the PC due to mouse/keyboard.
So honestly, in actuality, every game ‘fits’ the PC… and some don’t fit consoles.
(No fanboy, i have a PC/360/Wii/DS)
03/07/2009 at 00:02 Urthman says:
I’ll never feel comfortable playing Final Fantasy on a PC
This is a perfectly good opinion which I respect. The only problem is when people (you didn’t say this) turn around and make the ridiculous statement, “Therefore no one should ever play Final Fantasy on a PC.”
What a utopia the internet would be if people realized “I don’t like it.” =/= “It is bad.”
03/07/2009 at 00:04 pilouuuu says:
I will be really annoyed if the next special edition Lucasarts releases is Grim Fandango and that they make an XBox360 version. It is not supposed to be on console.
Really, aren’t games, games? Does it matter what platform they are on? Why can’t action games be on the PC? Wasn’t Doom 2 an action game? I can’t undertand that a guy that I consider so smart is saying that crap.
I don’t think Tim is dumbing down the game so much that he thinks that us PC gamers won’t like it, contrary to less selective console owners. No, Tim always cares about the quality of his games. Doesn’t he?
03/07/2009 at 00:15 Pidesco says:
I have a PC connected to an LCD TV, and a PC gamepad. What exactly about Brutal Legend makes it unsuitable for PC, again?
03/07/2009 at 00:17 manintheshack says:
Well, I don’t usually join in on discussions that are likely to turn into a 3,000 comment bitch-fest, but I have to say, despite owning a 360, I was extremely saddened by this news. I’ll still play it, but there will surely be some horrid anger brewing in the back of my mind the whole time. I love Tim Shafer’s games, but he hasn’t endeared me with those remarks and I’m certain many others – besides the aggravating lunatics – will feel the same.
03/07/2009 at 00:18 Serondal says:
Jack Black Pidesco, Jack Black just doesn’t feel right on a PC . Or any where.
03/07/2009 at 00:23 Kadayi says:
TBH if the game doesn’t do as well as they hope I’m sure a port will knocked out down the line. Personally I have deep reservatiions as to whether the game is quite the money spinner they think it will be on the 360. Jack Black and Heavy Metal aren’t to everyone’s tastes after all.
03/07/2009 at 00:24 Ginger Yellow says:
Seems like I’m the only person on here who does agree that “action games” are for consoles. There’s something about them that is just more amenable to playing from a distance on a TV with a pad. Same with sports games and fighters. Everything else – PC every time. But if I could have played, say, Beyond Good and Evil on a console at the time, I’d have bought it on console. As it is, I picked it up for PC because the Gamecube version was impossible to find. I’m almost certainly going to get the console version of Overlord II for similar reasons.
03/07/2009 at 00:26 Ginger Yellow says:
“I will be really annoyed if the next special edition Lucasarts releases is Grim Fandango and that they make an XBox360 version. It is not supposed to be on console.”
I’d say if any adventure game is supposed to be on console, it’s Grim Fandango. No point and click, a fairly cumbersome movement system that would be much improved by analogue turning control, and a simple inventory. What about it is unsuitable for console?
03/07/2009 at 00:28 Serondal says:
Ginger – So your argument is that action games are better for consoles because of the distance you sit from the screen and the pad? You DO know that there are pads for the PC and you actaully have direct control over how far away you are from the screen O.o right?
03/07/2009 at 00:32 Stu says:
From a UK perspective at least, multiplatform titles generally sell like shit on the PC (or at least, those without a strong online multiplayer component do). The PC version of Prototype, for example, didn’t even scratch the individual formats top 40, whereas the 360 and PS3 versions debuted at 2 and 6 respectively. If Schafer’s jokey comments are actually masking the fact that Double Fine and/or EA don’t feel that the return they’d get from a PC version is worth the investment then who can blame them?
03/07/2009 at 00:33 invisiblejesus says:
Not to jump on ya, Ginger, but I do have to say, I owned the Gamecube version of Beyond Good and Evil and when it showed up on a weekend deal on Steam I snagged it there. I much prefer the PC version. It’s cool that you think otherwise, don’t get me wrong, but there’s a difference between preferring action games on a console and making the blanket “factual” statement that action games belong on consoles only and not the PC.
03/07/2009 at 00:36 Quests says:
“What is this idea that Action games don’t exist on PCs? You do realize that FPS games fall under that heading as well and with the likes of Arm A 2 , Crysis, Farcry 2 , Halflife 2 ect there are TONS of action games on the PC”
Yeah and they should get the fuck off of PC’s.
I only want Europa Universalis(wargames) and Age of Decadence(old school turn-based rpgs), plz send everything else the fuck off of me.
03/07/2009 at 00:39 Skooma says:
Well fuck you too Tim.
I wish Katamari Damacy was on PC. :(
03/07/2009 at 00:41 James T says:
Now I’m kinda glad it looked so bafflingly shite in the trailer, that way I’m not missing much.
I love the notion that my wanting to blow 300-500 bucks on something that has about, oooh, three games I’d want to play, when I have a perfectly good gaming PC with plenty of games to recommend it means I must be a mean petty haterrr!, rather than, y’know, just not willing to compulsively blow hundreds of dollars on a trifle. When you’re spruiking a game, I guess you do have to indulge in that sort of misleading rhetoric to put a happy face on your limitations (compare the Ubisoft guys saying that “Microsoft is Splinter Cell’s spiritual home!” when there’s no PS3 port; at least that one gets a PC port…), but seeing actual punters parrot that bullshit is… well, I wish the English language had a single word for “so sad it’s funny”. I’ll have to coin one…. “Funnysad!” On the other hand, it’s sad before it’s funny, so… “Sadfunny”. But then, really it’s sad, then it seems funny for awhile, then it goes back to sad and stays there, so… *rubs chin*
03/07/2009 at 00:41 catska says:
Oh Boo Hoo. It’s funny to see people here saying they’re going to pirate it if a PC version ever comes out as ‘payback’ for this. Ever wonder why developers don’t give a crap about the PC anymore? Look no further than your resident PC elitist blog comments.
Also amusing is people coming out of the woodwork now to claim Schafer doesn’t make good games, showing that PC gamer support is just as fickle as everyone expected it to be. The guy practically carried PC gaming on his back through the 90s and now because he dares making a console-centric action game for consoles he’s suddenly ‘washed up’. Get over yourselves.
I’m sure the real reasons for not bringing it out on the PC is they don’t want everyone pirating it and then not buying ANY versions (console or otherwise). And also because they’d have elitists on here whining about how the gameplay doesn’t work with a keyboard and mouse like they did devil may cry.
03/07/2009 at 00:44 squadman says:
squadman confirms no purchase of Brutal Legend for any console.
a bit sad they aren’t considering a port at this stage. i’d love a steam version to be considered at some time. don’t mind xbox 360 gamepad required to play – at all!
maybe they’ll release a wii version (my only current gen console, not counting psp and ds) in the future, so I at least get to play some version of the game. speaking as someone who has bought every single game he has ever developed on pc, it’s a really disappointing announcement… even if the decision has been made for purely business reasons.
money talks, but I don’t like what it’s saying!!!
03/07/2009 at 00:48 James T says:
Extra sadfunny points for people cheering about and encouraging lack of choice, by the way. “Fewer games, fewer games! Games with graphical interfaces are meant for consoles! FEWER I say!” Excellent trolling from ‘Quests’ here.
03/07/2009 at 00:49 pilouuuu says:
“I will be really annoyed if the next special edition Lucasarts releases is Grim Fandango and that they make an XBox360 version. It is not supposed to be on console.”
I’d say if any adventure game is supposed to be on console, it’s Grim Fandango. No point and click, a fairly cumbersome movement system that would be much improved by analogue turning control, and a simple inventory. What about it is unsuitable for console?
@Ginger It was a sarcastic comment about genres be solely intended for one kind of machine. And Grim Fandango is also a Schaffer game, so I guess it suited the sarcasm well.
Yes, I agree Grim would be perfect on console and it also would show that consoles can have intelligent games too, so it would be quite good to have a special edition with HD graphics on X360 (and PC too of course!).
It was just to show how absurd I think is the idea of PC=no action games.
03/07/2009 at 00:49 James T says:
Person.
03/07/2009 at 00:54 Doctor Doc says:
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
03/07/2009 at 00:54 The_B says:
@GibletHead2000 Try The Wonderful End of The World for Katamari-alike on the PC.
03/07/2009 at 00:57 Ripsteakjaw says:
They probably were hoping to make some money on this one.
03/07/2009 at 01:02 Serondal says:
To say that Tim Schafer carried PC gaming on his back through the 90s is insane. Maybe he carried Adventure gaming on his back, but that’s about it since he’s never done anything besides make adventure games for Lucasarts up until Physconauts O.o
To be totally honest don’t give a crap what he is or isn’t going to do. I haven’t played a single one of his adventure games. Nothing he has produced has impressed me what so ever and the only reason I wanted this game to begin with is that I like the art design and heavy metal.
I’m really angry at him or even offended in the least, but this false idea that he is some sort of PC gaming God is getting on my nerves. If you want to turn someone into an Idol why not pick someone who is actaully a PC Legend like say Sid Meier who made 23 games for the PC in the same time Tim made 7.
03/07/2009 at 01:02 Wulf says:
There are games I’d love to see ported from consoles to the PC, perhaps even with a touch-up on the graphics side of things, and Okami is actually one of them. Brutal Legend is not. The more I see of Brutal Legend, the more depressed I become, and the more ready I feel to turn to some sort of illegal chemical compound for comfort. Well, probably not, but still… what happened to you, Tim?
There seems to be a brain virus jumping from developer to developer. Who ws patient zero, I wonder? Was it, perhaps, Cliffy “Don’t call me CliffyB” B? And which of our few good developers will it leap to next? I have to say that this always gives me pause for thought, because I can’t see any logical reason to not do a PC port.
After all, look at the 360 hardware and what s it but a shitty, mid-range PC? (Sorry 360 fans.)
Are they just scared of having to put in the level of effort for support that they would with a PC release? That’s all I can think of, and the only logical reason, after all, there are only two logical reasons here, and it’s either that or money. That they believe the PC is so rife with pirates that games won’t make money for it.
Firmware hacks are becoming easier to do with the 360 all the time, and there’s far less risk involved because once you’ve got the firmware done, you have a Universe of free games without any kind of risk involved. I wonder when it becomes easy enough for any idiot to do whether developers will abandon the 360?
It’s all very depressing, really.
And the mere idea that it’s a “console designed game” is just pure bunk, complete and utter bull. I mean, if you look at the history of home computers, we’ve had plenty of console-like games. And today, if you hook up a computer to a HDTV television and plug in a Microsoft Games for Windows pad, then… oh look, you have pretty much an XBox 360 that does everything that’s able to, but better!
So that notion I find to be truly baffling, and as arse-pulled as any spindoctored tale is, whatever the true reason for not developing games for the PC is, that’s most certainly not it. And please let’s not entertain the notion that the PC isn’t capable of doing everything a console can, and even being as good at being a console as a console is. Because consoles these days are just Computers for Idiots, with firmware that feels very much like a dumbed down OS.
Hell, you can even install Linux on the PS3 and that works really well, so the PS3 can be a computer!
fffff
In case I’m not making my point clearly here, making a game solely for one platform has always been bullshit, for whatever reason. Exclusivity, laziness, whatever. But to do so because it’s “better on a console” or “better on a computer” both seem ludicrous these days because the lines of console and computer are so blurred that they don’t even matter.
A console can be a computer, and a computer can be a console.
So let’s not buy into that particular form of hyberbole, we’re not that undereducated, surely.
But anyway, I don’t really care about Schafer’s motivations because this isn’t really a game that interests me, I jus thope that no other developers will jump on this bandwagon of games being better suited to just one format or just one type of format.
03/07/2009 at 01:07 D says:
^ I’m liking this guy more and more with every megapost.
03/07/2009 at 01:13 drewski says:
I don’t hate consoles, I just don’t have one.
03/07/2009 at 01:16 James T says:
Wolf, that’s not hyperbole! And you spelled (or “spelt”) it wrong!
…And I think we are decidedly undereducated here… Oh well!
03/07/2009 at 01:16 Ripsteakjaw says:
Hey good thinking Serondal, 23 games, that’s a bigger number than 7. I guess that makes Ed Wood a better film director than Kubrick too huh?
03/07/2009 at 01:17 James T says:
…And I got your name wrong. Witcher on the brain!
03/07/2009 at 01:18 James T says:
So “Ripsteakjaw”, you’d compare Meier’s work to Schafer’s as you would Wood’s work to Kubrick’s?
03/07/2009 at 01:34 Wedge says:
Yeeeeeeah, pretty sure my 360 controller (among a number of others I have) works OK on my PC. Bad excuse. I’m also pretty sure my computer can run any game the 360 can at much higher resolution and AA settings, so that’s where I prefer to play them =/
03/07/2009 at 01:35 Ripsteakjaw says:
Yeah that’s exactly what I said wasn’t it James T?
03/07/2009 at 01:42 Tom Davidson says:
To Tim Schafer:
I own a very powerful PC. It is hooked up to the HDTV in my living room. I have wireless keyboards, wireless gyroscopic mice, and wireless gamepads that work just fine with it. Some even have “rumble.” I have a wireless [i]guitar[/i] controller.
I do not want to pay three hundred dollars and an extra $20 per title to play slower, laggier, less easily modded versions of your games. I understand that you might be contractually obligated to provide your games only to fratboys and soccer moms, and understand that the primary vendor of my operating system has done precious little to encourage you to remain with my platform of choice, but I am nevertheless disappointed by your decision to limit my access to your content.
03/07/2009 at 01:43 teo says:
Personally I doooon’t care
I thought Psychonauts was funny at times and conceptually neat but gameplay wise it was rubbish. Nothing about this game had me excited, especially not the bad jokes Jack Black keeps doing
03/07/2009 at 01:45 James T says:
(Boy, it’d mean a lot fewer posts if the edit thing was behaving).
“Ripsteakjaw”: You misrepresent Serondai by assuming that he was basing what he said purely on numbers; does he have to spell it out for you that he considers Meier’s output to be as good or better than Schafer’s? (Plus he was talking about who did more for PC etc etc, that’s quantitative as well as qualitative).
03/07/2009 at 01:48 Stupoider says:
Why all the hate for PC, Tim? :(
03/07/2009 at 01:56 Serondal says:
Ripsteakjaw – I was responding directly to someone who claimed that Tim carried PC gaming on his back through the 90s. Number of games DOES matter here when you consider that Sid made and sold more games than Tim and hence kept PC gaming alive. When we talk about quality I don’t think you can even come close to comparing them since they make two totally different kinds of games. Sid mostly war games and Tim 100% adventure games. (Though they both made at least 2 games with pirates in them which I highly approve of)
03/07/2009 at 01:57 Jetsetlemming says:
But consoles are expensive and hard to justify due to the lack of real utility. :(
03/07/2009 at 02:05 Trithemius says:
My problem with consoles is that I probably need to own all of them in order to play all of the console games that I am interested in. Admittedly, there are not many that I am interested in, but they are scattered across the different platforms.
How can I obsessively pour money into my desktop and support a console and fancy tv habit? :(
03/07/2009 at 02:14 Filipe says:
Man, this comment thread is depressing.
03/07/2009 at 02:17 Serondal says:
Nice bit of Trolling and personal attack Ripsteakjaw, well done. But you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about since only 4 out of the 31 games he made where Civ games. I’ll actaully go so far as to throw you 2 more with colonization and Alpha Centauri. He also made some of the first flight Sims, Railroad Tycoon , SimGolf, and Pirates! (Pirates alone is better than all Tim’s games put together but that is a matter of opinion and not fact)
03/07/2009 at 02:22 Erlam says:
If he can give me a single way in which this game would suffer from a mouse+keyboard control system, I will buy it for 360.
Otherwise, fuck it.
03/07/2009 at 02:34 IvanHoeHo says:
:(
As 360 games are just generally not for me, I suppose I’ll just have to wait .till when the PC port inevitably comes out at some point.
03/07/2009 at 02:36 Robin says:
Translation: We’ve made a game about “rawk” which doesn’t ship with a plastic guitar and spent loads of EA’s money on voice talent. Whoops! Please buy our game at full price on console because there will never be the option to get it sans-console-licensing fees on PC. Ever ever ever (until the console version is knocked down to budget price).
03/07/2009 at 02:41 dreamhunk says:
if you want the game so bad just rent a console and the game or get an emulator and play the game.
It goes to show how much the game devs don’t care about their fanbase so why even supoort them. This one game that shoud be pirated to hell and back and I hope it does.
03/07/2009 at 02:43 dreamhunk says:
by the way it really looks like a dum game
03/07/2009 at 02:45 The Hammer says:
I suppose it’d be a bit more bitter sweet if Tim had said something nice about the PC, but no. It seemed he was both criticising the perceived limitations of genre, and a group of PC players who’d prefer to only play on their PCs. Like a few others, I found it surprising that he reacted quite coldly to a question which seemed, and was, perfectly innocent. Someone wanted to play his game on their platform of choice.
I’ve got no chance of getting the game now, and it did appeal to me quite a bit. Tim has garnered a lot of love from his PC gaming fans over the years, and I doubt he’ll be able to replicate that with a console public more interested in the Kojimas and Bungies of the world. I understand that Double Fine is a company first and foremost, and as such needs to make as much money as possible, but hells, even Epic still make games for the PC.
03/07/2009 at 03:15 edosan says:
Ignoring potential markets = smart.
Seriously though, what is this game going to do that can’t be done on PC?
03/07/2009 at 03:16 lumpi says:
I honestly have no problem with that. I’ve seen too man crappy ports to “demand” a PC version at this point, it would probably be lame.
Developers: Decide whether you want to make an awesome PC game or an awesome console game, then stick to it. Few things are as frustrating as half-assed “cross-platform” releases.
03/07/2009 at 03:17 MD says:
Perhaps Schafer sees himself as the ‘Brutal Legend’ of the title…
03/07/2009 at 03:18 Xhumar says:
The only thing I can say is: F U T.S
03/07/2009 at 03:29 Nahual says:
Well, there’s a first for everything, i guess this is the first time I’m not going to be counting the days to go buy the newest Tim Schafer game.
I don’t hate consoles, in fact i play a lot on my pals’ consoles, and that’s nice and all, but my genres of choice are FPS, RTS, Sims and (at up until Grim Fandango) Adventure, the only thing consoles do remotely well is FPS, and i will admit i despise gamepads on FPS (or anything that requires heavy aiming). I literally feel as awkward as playing basketball on a wheelchair. So with that the main draw the consoles have for me it’s lost.
Also, i’m just not about to spend 300-400 + 60-70 dollars even if it’s for the latest Schafer (which is one the only 2 console exclusives that i really want to play), only to have the console sitting there collecting dust afterwards. Man, with that money i could totally pimp my PC. New graphics card, proc and memory, and still have enough left for 2 or 3 games. (Or like the entire GoG library!)
03/07/2009 at 03:35 Isocheim says:
So sick of people, especially devs, deciding what’s meant and not meant to be played on what. Get a controller, an HD-TV, and a sofa, and you can easily emulate the console experience on a PC. Sort of doubting that’s even the real reason. Probably decided the sales revenue would be outweighed by the cost of a port.
03/07/2009 at 03:56 Mo says:
I love all the incredibly immature comments coming from so-called “sophisticated” PC gamers.
Also, I love all the personal hate for Tim Schafer. Just to reiterate, this man is a fucking legend. He played a pretty big role in defining PC gaming in the 90s. And this is the respect PC gamers have for him? For shame.
03/07/2009 at 04:04 MD says:
Eh, of course some people have gone over the top, but he was clearly baiting his fans a bit. He deliberately avoided answering the question in a meaningful way, and twisted ‘I am sad that this game will not come to PC’ into ‘I hate consoles’. Sure, that’s not a hanging offense, but it was deliberately provocative and rather disrespectful.
03/07/2009 at 04:13 pilouuuu says:
Well, Tim… Now I want Grim Fandango 2. I hope they make it and don’t ask for your participation.
Whoever do it will destroy the franchise undobtly, but you have Brutal Legend on your console, don’t you?
Yeah, I know. That’s cruel. It’s exactly how I felt after reading your PC bashing.
03/07/2009 at 04:25 bhlaab says:
You’re all silly billies if you think this was actually his decision (he’d probably release the thing on the damn Game.com if he could get away with it)
03/07/2009 at 04:26 Mo says:
Wait, so everyone thinks Tim is bashing PCs and not just joking around like he always does?
03/07/2009 at 04:27 FernandoDANTE says:
Well, then, it is true: Tim Schafer is a dickless pedophile bastard who eats baby panda hearts for breakfast.
In all seriousness, his excuse is ultra-lame. Psychonauts was an action game too, but it came out for the PC. Also…
USB CONTROLLERS, DUMBASS!!!!!!!!!!!! This “not adequate for PC” bullshit is ridiculous. With a controller, you can play anything on the PC. I don’t hate consoles, BUT I ALSO DON’T HAVE A 360 OR A WII!!!
03/07/2009 at 04:28 FernandoDANTE says:
…or a PS3
03/07/2009 at 04:49 MD says:
Mo says:
“Wait, so everyone thinks Tim is bashing PCs and not just joking around like he always does?”
He was obviously joking around, but personally I can see why he rubbed people up the wrong way. There seemed to be a derisive edge there, if only in the fact of giving such a flippant and empty response to a question that is important to a lot of his biggest fans. Having a joke is one thing, but doing so while also dodging the question is bound to piss off the people who genuinely care about his creations and are disappointed to be missing out on this one. Again, I don’t see this as some terrible insult, and personally the whole situation doesn’t worry me in the slightest, but I don’t think it’s fair to be quite so harsh on those who were offended.
03/07/2009 at 04:53 Phil White says:
I think Citizen Parker and Stu are right: consoles are the better home for adventures nowadays, and I don’t believe that’s due to piracy.
World of Warcraft changed the PC landscape; it led to feelings of detachment in some of the older PC veterans. I drifted away from the PC earlier this decade because I felt left behind, but that’s another debate.
Tim is primarily a writer – an excellent one, and the consoles offer by far the best shot at gaining recognition for his latest project. He’s going where he hopes to be the most appreciated. Recall the old story about Grim Fandango bidding farewell to the classic adventure genre.
03/07/2009 at 05:03 MD says:
It’s like if my favourite musician was doing a world tour, but I’d just found out that he wasn’t coming to Australia. Disappointed, I politely ask him why. He tells me that “there aren’t any suitable venues in Australia, this tour is really more of a European and American thing” before jokingly accusing me of being racist for refusing to travel internationally to see his show. It’s not that the latter comment is a problem in itself, but it’s a bit of a kick in the guts after the ‘serious’ answer he gave appeared to be nonsensical and evasive. It would have gone down much better if he’d either taken the time to clarify his original answer and explain why it actually made sense, or alternatively shown some honesty and admitted it was a financial decision.
03/07/2009 at 05:19 Mo says:
But do we really need clarification? I think people forget how tiring it is to answer the same *obvious* question over and over again. It’s like Kojima being asked, “Will MGS4 come to X360?” every single interview.
Here’s clarification:
Publishers dictate what platform the game comes out on. EA, having done the math, have determined that the cost it’ll take to port, QA and support Brutal Legend exceeds their estimated revenue for the sales on the PC platform.
Tim doesn’t hate PC, this isn’t a big conspiracy. It’s just business.
03/07/2009 at 05:29 MD says:
Of course, but nobody likes being lied to, and claiming that “it’s really an action game, that when you play it you’ll see that it was meant to be on a console” seems more like a deliberate attempt to avoid admitting that it’s just business than a tired response to an obvious question.
03/07/2009 at 05:35 Pijama says:
No hate here too.
But yeah, I wonder how does that say for “PC Elitism” when they simply cannot afford consoles and would enjoy a work of one of the greatest of that platform.
03/07/2009 at 05:39 Frosty840 says:
It’s fine. Someone (possibly Tim, probably not) thinks that because I have a 360 and because I want the game, I’ll buy the 360 version.
That someone is wrong.
I want the PC version and am not interested in this game on consoles in the slightest. If there’s no PC version, then there’s simply not a game here that I want to/intend to buy.
03/07/2009 at 05:40 cw8 says:
“Well it’s really an action game, that when you play it you’ll see that it was meant to be on a console.”
Why Tim why?
I just got boxed set Streetfighter IV for PC yesterday and it worked like a charm, lag free, bug free, controls are easy and is really cheap too and a fighting game is definitely as intense or more so on the controls than an action game. Capcom is primarily a arcade/console game developer and yet they release PC versions all the time even after complaining about the lack of sales on DMC4. So why give this excuse. I’m sad, I played all the adventure games since Day of The Tentacle. And I consider Monkey Island and Grim Fandango to be some of the best games of all time, then why leave us loyal PC gamers in the dark, Tim? I’m not angry, just heavily disappointed.
03/07/2009 at 05:43 MD says:
Also — and I’ll drop the whole thing after this post rather than banging on indefinitely — when I mentioned ‘clarifying’ I wasn’t referring to a detailed explanation of how business decisions are made. I was suggesting that for the answer that WAS given, clarification is required to make it seem like anything other than a misleading copout — the alternative being a simple, straight and not-very-tiring answer of ‘unfortunately it’s not financially viable’.
03/07/2009 at 06:28 Mo says:
Yay, reasonable answers! :) Okay, I can work with these.
Yeah, but that’s just not Tim. He’s just incapable of uttering those words. In the near-decade of reading the Double Fine ACTION NEWS! I can recall maybe two or three serious posts. Given the amount of drama Double Fine has been through, that says something about Tim’s character. It would’ve been nice to get a straightforward answer, but it’s just not Tim’s style.
And besides, let’s be honest here, the AIM rage would be just as high if he gave the straightforward answer.
03/07/2009 at 06:29 Z says:
I love our hate orgies.
03/07/2009 at 06:34 tmp says:
Hmm Psychonauts seemed to work just fine on a PC and it was quite certainly an “action game” so if action games are something that’s meant to be only on consoles… well, it seems PC can do just fine things it’s supposedly not meant for.
Oh and there’s quite a large gap between “hate for consoles” and willingness to shell out few hundred bucks on extra piece of hardware that one could do perfectly well without, but then i think Mr.Schafer does know it. And given that the flippant response… well, not sure what’s supposed to accomplish really.
03/07/2009 at 06:48 Thiefsie says:
I blame QTE’s for this haha
03/07/2009 at 07:03 Pavel says:
“We are really focused on the Xbox 360 and PS3 version right now.”
Yeah, right now.Six months later, we will have PC version, better than the console one.
03/07/2009 at 07:18 Captain Haplo says:
Warning: this comment contains REFERENCES!, ümlaüts and sympathy.
First of all, it’s a shame that the PC isn’t getting Brütal Legend. I was kind of looking forward to playing it on my nine year old antiquated rig. I really need to upgrade this baby.
Second of all, I can sympathise with Tim Schafer here and the design team. I can honestly see the reasoning behind wanting to design the game for the console. Presumably the game was designed for console with a port to PC later on. Currently of course the PC port has been cut. Why? Well, not everyone owns a gamepad or wants to buy one, even if they would just for Brütal Legend. Also, it takes a lot of work to port a game. PCs, XBoxes, PSes, all use different libraries which can be hell to code, resulting in some infamously poor ports over the years. PCs are also, at the end of the day, a hell of a lot more customisable than consoles, and that also means they’re a lot more finnicky. Soren Johnson, the lead designer/director/or something of Civilization 4 was reported as expressing his frustration in designing a game flawlessly for the PC, especially after the horde of bug reports came in, and considered migrating to consoles in the future. Later that year, Civ Revolutions for the consoles came out. That’s from Firaxis (or whoever they are), a big strong company.
So, am I disappointed? Yes. But I can sympathise with them here. I don’t hate you, Tim. Rock on, my man. Rock on.
03/07/2009 at 07:25 Jack says:
“Why all the hate for consoles?”
I can say the same thing about PC
why all the hate for PC?
03/07/2009 at 08:14 Kadayi says:
@MO
So you believe that TS is somehow beyond criticism? I hate to break it to you, but the man eats and shits the same as everyone else and is just as fallible.
03/07/2009 at 08:20 SwiftRanger says:
A pity. Several PC magazines had it covered before the switch to EA and the latter almost always tries to make a PC version as well so I think this really is Double Fine’s own decision. Talk about forgetting where you came from idd. Not gonna buy a console for this as well, tsk, silly people.
Well, at least RPS still is on PC. It’s an exclusive even. Consoles can’t even touch that.
03/07/2009 at 08:34 Lambchops says:
Ah well, this will be lumped with Ico, Shadows of the Collosus and so on in the (rather short) list of games that almost tempted me to buy a console. however one or two games (no matter how good they look) aren’t enough to justify spending the money. I guess I’ll just soldier on with the PC and Wii combination and try to persuade a friend to buy the potentail awesomeness that is Brutal Legend (shouldn’t be too difficult!).
03/07/2009 at 08:50 unclelou says:
I wonder how big the interest of console gamers in this game really is. Eurogamer is a very console-centric site, and yet articles about Brütal Legend hardly generate any comments, and half of them are people asking for a PC version.
03/07/2009 at 09:01 Roberto says:
I am primarily a console gamer, my pc is rather old and cannot play a lot of high end games. But to be honest I don’t think most console gamers are excited about Brutal Legend and the game will probably suffer for not having a PC Version, and a proper PC Version not a lazy port. The people that excitedly cover it in console magazines and websites keep harking back to the PC adventure games that Schafer is known for. So sort it out Schafer and don’t end up with another Pschonauts i.e okay game but sold bugger all except on PC.
03/07/2009 at 09:02 Roberto says:
Yes I realised my spelling in the last line is terrible. Me hates the lack of edit button!
03/07/2009 at 09:20 Dominic White says:
The amount of screeching denial in this thread is hilarious. It seems that half the comments are “Tim Schaefer is shit anyway”. Or “Nobody will buy the game. It’s terrible.” or “I never wanted it anyhow.”
I’ve probably been a playing games on PCs longer than most of you. In fact, I started back in the days of CGA displays. Rogue (that which spawned the entire Roguelike genre) taught me to read. But y’know what? I’m glad that I’m not a ‘PC gamer’ anymore, just someone who likes videogames.
Because those who label themselves as specificially PC Gamers are among the worst fanboys on the net. Sure, the Nintendo crowd can get a bit obnoxious at times, and the PS3 fans will try waaay too hard to defend whatever title Sony are marketing heavily, but it’s only occasional bursts of retardation there.
With PC geeks, it’s all the goddamn time.
And again, I’d like to remind people that Devil May Cry 4, despite being a more-than-perfect port, and an improvement on an already excellent fighting game, got shat on by the PC gaming press because it was a console port, because it wasn’t completely redesigned to work with the (completely unsuitable) mouse and keyboard configuration.
03/07/2009 at 09:21 Rinox says:
Wow. Thread explosion!
I’d say to everyone to chill out. Yes, I am disappointed that the game won’t be on the PC, and no, I never owned a console (other than an Atari 2600 back in the days).
But Schafer is clearly just kidding with his remarks. It’s very much his style of humor.
03/07/2009 at 09:22 Lars Westergren says:
“My question is, ‘Why all the hate for consoles?’”
Yeah, PC gamers? Why do you hate America?
03/07/2009 at 09:23 mihor_fego says:
I’m pretty disappointed by Tim’s answer to EG… Grim Fandango is my absolute favorite game ever and I’ve been playing MI in my Amiga500 when they first came out.
The thing is, I have never owned a console, going from Amstrad6128 to my current MacPro, and don’t intend to. It’s just a wrong investment hardware-wise imho, while my closest mate owns every console ever being produced. I’ve spent many hours playing beat em ups and footballl games there, but I prefer other game types really.
When I first saw the game’s trailer, I loved it for the theme, as I was a metalhead in my teens (15 years ago) and we were even playing Motorhead at Amiga back then (anyone remember that awful game?). The thing is, I also thought “damn, I’ll really have to play this button-mashing thing for the humor and the story?”.
I’ve shown the trailer to two buddies, with both having the same response, being raving mad about it and loving it. One is the aforementioned console owner, who’d go buy it the day it got released. I’d buy it as support for the Tim, as I can’t forget all the hours of gaming excellence he gave us. The other pc-gaming friend though, even if more excited about it than me, would definitely pirate it.
And that can be a publisher’s problem. Hell, up to a few years back, I’ve never bought a game myself. It obviously was financial reasons and now that I can afford it, I spend a lot on games. Consider EA’s target audience for such a metal-themed Jack Black-starring action game, though; it’s teenage gamers. Those that mostly own consoles and would pirate the game if they had access to a PC…
Remember how close Tim’s studio was to losing their hard work when their previous publisher dumped the game, even if they had already invested a pretty hefty sum on it. Perhaps EA was the one responsible for pushing the release on the PC platform months back, to avoid losing the sales for the first months when the game would be hot.
Tim’s response is still puzzling me, though. I can’t really swallow he believes action games are for consoles only. As many who posted here mention, what are FPS then? (And they’re a lot more heavy on action than any Devil May Cry). A joypad (as we called the back then) is available for PCs since the day of Genesis (the Sega one) and in the late 80′s PC joysticks were a lot better for action games than the NES pads…
So, even if he says so, it’s only an excuse. Which I though pre-programmed PR only threw at us, undermining our intellect. I’d never see it coming from Tim, but I’m not one who likes the I idea of martyrdom. It’s his job making games, he has to live by it and gives work to a whole bunch of people in his studio. Since I enjoyed all his games, he’s also good at what he does. If saying that bs is forced on him by his publisher for them to keep on making their games, I don’t expect him to cry out he’s “legally bound” or “there’s no fundiing for PC dev” and lose it all.
It’s up to us PC gamers to support our own platform. Most here on the RPS community are buying their games but that’s not the staple for PC gamers at all. I honestly believe that 90% of PC gamers pirate their games. And even with Pirate Bay closing down, piracy won’t stop for it was there years before peer-to-peer technology, and now will move on to VPN.
I guess this will turn out to be a post irrelevant to the article, so I’m gonna stop here…
03/07/2009 at 09:23 Dominic White says:
Oh, and no – I haven’t abandoned the PC. It’s still my primary platform of choice if a game is multiplatform, and I was up way too late last night playing Sword of The Stars, which is very much PC-exclusive and probably the best 4x I’ve played since Master Of Orion 2.
03/07/2009 at 09:25 Larington says:
Oh well. Every game that is denied a PC version, is one more game I no longer need be concerned about. And yeah, maybe action games are a little bit more suited to gamepad control systems, but really not by that much, especially considering that it’s not that hard to buy a gamepad for your PC.
So at the base of it all I still think this is an economic decision rather than anything else.
But like I said, theres plenty other games heading for PC, that, and if I want to play a really good game, I go back to the games made a few years ago because frankly, somewhere along the last few years I think the games industry has lost something. It now seems to suffer from the obsession with action and glamour that the film industry does, and suffers for it.
Maybe I should go back and replay Baldur’s Gate, for example, or Deus Ex, or Anachronox, or any other of a large number of games that weren’t afraid to be slow and contemplative for even a second. Now those were good games.
03/07/2009 at 09:31 Tei says:
I have to admit that I don’t know who is this guy. This is the creator of monkey island or something? I was never much into monkey island. The day of the tentacle whas more my thing.
I tried installing the demo of psychonauts in a few different computers, because I have read good things about the game. But It failed to run, so I have not buy the game.
Making games for consoles seems a good business decision. Theres probably a bigger market, and you can make the games more expensive, and theres probably less piracy.
Making games for consoles withouth a PC version seems a good tecnical decision. Making a engine run on different architectures may mean sacrifice speed here, quality here, etc. Mostly because the consoles hardware don’t have much RAM, and have to load almost everything from a mechanical / optical device. On the PC you have a harddisk, where things can load faster and you can prepare things in a optimal way… If you wish. A engine designed for one architecture, will probably run poorly on the other. I have ear that a XBox have only 512 MB of RAM. I have more ram in 6 years old pendrives here. My PC have only 4 GB, because I don’t want to use a 64 bits OS yet. But 8 GB seems more like with the time (and I have usb pendrives with more RAM). Xbox 360 is running on peanuts, cocos and bananas put togueter with duct-tape. But I digress.
What I mean is that seems a logical tecnical and bussines decision.
I don’t see what is the fuss about it.
Good designers move to consoles? others will demoed his quality. There are, probably, enough talented people out here. Let other people show us how good are.
The dumbplane of consoleizombification can have our oldes designers. Much like a elephant graveyard.
03/07/2009 at 09:39 zombiehunter says:
Wow… i really wanted to play this game… All those rockin dudes and the hell and the music… darn. another game that passes on by without me buyin or playin it.
03/07/2009 at 09:39 mihor_fego says:
Sorry for the bunch of typos and other mistakes, but I can’t edit my post.
(wordpress is what you use RPS? just to know what to avoid…)
03/07/2009 at 09:40 Guernican says:
“And fairies aren’t real”
You’ve never been clubbing in Brighton, eh?
03/07/2009 at 09:52 Jochen Scheisse says:
Tai, he also made Day of the Tentacle.
03/07/2009 at 10:04 Man Raised By Puffins says:
What a shame (about both this news and the astonishing level of ill-directed vitriol in these comments, I’d be with Okami on this one if console fanboys weren’t as bad).
03/07/2009 at 10:18 Richard says:
This thread is WAY too long to read so I’m not sure if this has been said BUT…
I like Tim Schafer. He’s done some great things. DOTT and Grim Fandango are two of my favourite games and titles I continually return to.
Anyone who kept up with the development diaries of Psychonauts knows how much pressure they were under to deliver a commercially viable product and get it out. For every month you spend tinkering with another platform port you are not accruing any income. This is an extremely expensive business and the studios that really care and produce a finished title (as not all do on release) should be supported.
With the added pressure of losing their initial publisher, getting a new one and being sued by the first surely doesn;t help matters.
I /am/ disappointed. It didn’t look like my kind of game but I’m interested in supporting Tim Schafer and probably would have bought it down the line if there was a PC version. I don’t have a console and don’t intend on buying one anytime soon.
But just let the guy get his game out. We won’t be holding our breath for a PC port and maybe he’s right. Maybe it just isn’t cost effective to produce a PC game that won’t sell in the right numbers.
Having said all this he should have known better to brush the PC audience off like that. Lack of resources and marketability would have been a tough answer but a more honest one.
03/07/2009 at 10:18 Rinox says:
I am reminded of the (sarcastic) comments made by Yahtzee in one of his rants on pc gamers vs. console gamers
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7664/45617314zi1mu6copypp8.jpg
03/07/2009 at 10:22 tapanister says:
@Larington:
Man, Baldur’s Gate was slow and contemplative? I must have missed that while playing it for 27 hours straight once, heh.
But although you make a good point, even as an action title Brutal Legend has the potential to be different than all the cookie cutter action games, so that’s the worst part for not porting it.
03/07/2009 at 10:31 Larington says:
Yeah, it’s a shame.
Comparatively, they are, a lot of earlier games weren’t high pressure scenarios, games where you could pause them or simply weren’t time intensive. It seems like the never ending search for fun in game design, in making sure that the player is having the most fun and excitement possibly at any given moment has pushed that to the wayside.
As for the economic reasons, I’d say it’s just safer to make games for a console, never mind piracy or installed user-bases, it’s easier to be sure that your game will actually work on the system. Big business is all about risk mitigation afterall and
03/07/2009 at 10:32 Larington says:
And I ended the last sentence badly… Proof reading ftw.
03/07/2009 at 10:48 gulag says:
Right, I’m off to buy an xbox.
03/07/2009 at 11:04 Tei says:
@gulag. If you do that, I will stop to be your friend.
Also look at that (I stolen this image to Rinox)
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7664/45617314zi1mu6copypp8.jpg
We are the master race!, we play with computers, not puny toys. :-)
03/07/2009 at 11:06 SinOk says:
So gamers who play only on consoles are GOOD gamers (why they need a PC?)
BUT gamers who only play on PC are “elitist” (consoles are the only true way to play videogames).
¬¬
What a piece of crap!!
03/07/2009 at 11:09 Quests says:
I hope many more producers follow this example and they keep their action stuff away from PC.
More room for simulations and wargames.
03/07/2009 at 11:11 Quests says:
And i hope proto-bullshit doesn’t sell.
03/07/2009 at 11:14 sigma83 says:
Here’s my opinion: Why can’t they just unify the freaking development architecture and program for everything at once? I’m sure there’s a legitimate reason, I’d just like to know what it is so I can stop thinking that Microsoft and Sony are stoopid.
03/07/2009 at 11:17 Tei says:
@SinOk: I don’t think he mean that. I think he mean something like “If you like good battles. You must like Megatron vs Optimus, even If you are not into big robots. Your distaste for big robots sould not make you hate what is itself a good fight”.
Katamari damacy is a original gameplay, and lots of fun. It also a very creative “world”. Is probably universal fun. Is on the history book of gamming. ( note: theres a PC clone called “The Wonderful End of the World” but is not as brilliant as katamari).
03/07/2009 at 11:21 Mattress says:
It’s a smart business decision.
Whilst I do think that piracy for the most part is a zero-sum game, where the vast majority of those who pirated the game would have never had the intention of buying the game in the first place and thus don’t actually cost the company any lost sales, is true for the most – I think certain titles are more vulnerable to piracy than other ones.
Par example; a mostly single player driven game with a well cultivated, somewhat obsessive and techsavy fanbase.
This core audience will generally want to play the game as soon as it comes out and piracy can be prevented mostly by releasing it on consoles and encouraging most fans to purchase there.
Schafer is one of the best designers and story tellers in the medium and for pundits and web-dwellers to be lamblasting him for a legitimate and (I would argue) sensible business decision is highly unfair.
That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was just being closed lipped on the pc version, to further encourage the borderline fans to buy it on the consoles and prevent them holding out for a possible PC release if they expect it to come. Clever PR? Maybe.
Eitherway, I wouldn’t be wholly surprised to see Brutal Legend on Steam or something within 12 months.
03/07/2009 at 11:27 Gap Gen says:
I thought Tim Schafer was immune to sequelitis that has ravaged the industry like an aging whore with many STDs. Part of the reason why I love his games is that he comes up with amazing new ideas every time, rather than cashing in on Grim 17: Return to Bonecity or whatever.
Reading what he said, I suspect he simply wants to control his own creations, rather than explicitly looking to make sequels. This is what I hope, anyway.
03/07/2009 at 11:30 Carra says:
Ugh, naming all pc gamers console haters? I don’t own a console nor do I have the intention of buying one. Why would I, I still have tons of games to play on my PC.
It’s sad to see the old masters of PC gaming turn into console only developers. Nothing wrong with developing for the console but at least make a PC port for your old fans.
03/07/2009 at 11:33 Quests says:
sigma83
Microsoft is trying to do just that, they’re trying to turn us into the flat-brained zombies you’d love to be… games that are equally good for ALL, players treated like a single herd of sheep.
But I hold on to my unique tastes, my niche genres, so i want more wargames, adventures, rpg’s and all those other games that a console gamer will never enjoy, and the invasion of action-games on PC would weaken the niches for your beloved massified flat-headed gaming fascism.
03/07/2009 at 11:34 sigma83 says:
There isn’t anything inherently wrong with sequels. They build upon the milieu of the prior work and can thus deliver a deeper experience. THe problem is that most sequels tend to be crap because they are developed for the sake of creating a sequel rather than a burning need by the creators to continue the story.
03/07/2009 at 11:40 sigma83 says:
In my opinion the concept of a console as a whole is going to die in the next decade or so as devices continue to unify. The lines between media centers and consoles and computers will blur until they all fuse together.
03/07/2009 at 11:44 Heliocentric says:
Sigma@
the Wii says hi.
PC is the unified platform, the corporations cant monetise that, consoles will be dragged into the future I’m afraid, exclusives with them.
03/07/2009 at 11:51 sigma83 says:
Here’s something for them to monetise: Awesomeness.
03/07/2009 at 11:55 Paul Moloney says:
It’s a shame to see this; publishers seem to have this idea that if people like a particular game, they will go out and buy a console to play it.
“I hate the consoles because I love freedom.”
“Hate” is too strong a word, but “freedom” is precisely why I prefer PC games. I’m certainly not a console hater – I have 2 of them – but I’ll buy a title on PC rather than console as I know I can play the game anywhere (on my desktop or on my laptop travelling), the game itself will look better as technology progresses and of course it can be modded or tweaked to your needs. This is probably why I have only 2 full-price games(*) on XBox (one of which I bought 2nd-hand) while I’ve bought 13 games on PC in the past 3 months alone. And if a game is console-only, I’m probably more likely to not buy it at all than buy it just because it’s not on PC.
P.
(*)Mainly use the Xbox for streaming media from the PC and playing XBLA games such as Carcassonne and Gauntlet. 2 full-prices games are Halo 3 (shit) and Crackdown (still haven’t managed to getting around to playing it).
03/07/2009 at 12:13 Sunjammer says:
Holy retardedness. There is mad, mad things going on in this thread. People need cold showers and furious bitchslaps in equal measure. Apparently some need hugs also.
Tim Schafer can do wtf he wants. And i’m glad he does. What i’m confused about is why people, as gamers, don’t own both a PC and a console of their choosing if they are so god damn hard core about it. A 360 costs less than a decent graphics board these days. If you want the option to play a game, get the platform for it. You’d upgrade your system for a game you want to play, this is no different.
He doesn’t owe you shit, and you don’t owe him this kind of badmouthery. Some of the things people are saying here is HARROWING reading.
03/07/2009 at 12:18 Valentin Galea says:
For a small company like Double Fine it is only reasonable to target first and foremost the consoles. PC is harder to manufacture for and sell on. Even tiny ol’ Briad was first released on XBox.
BUT if they have gone to the trouble of supporting both XBox and PS3 why didn’t they do an extra leap and do a general purpose engine so they can put it on PC and maybe Wii too?
I really want the id tech 5 to deliver what it promised: compilation to all major platforms from the same code base, so that all devs use it and they throw all this console-vs-pc nonsense away!:)
03/07/2009 at 12:28 Quests says:
Sunjammer:
Agreed. Why is it so wrong to buy a platform to play THAT kind of games? Unification harms the niches.
03/07/2009 at 12:47 SwiftRanger says:
“What i’m confused about is why people, as gamers, don’t own both a PC and a console of their choosing if they are so god damn hard core about it. A 360 costs less than a decent graphics board these days. If you want the option to play a game, get the platform for it. You’d upgrade your system for a game you want to play, this is no different.”
Euh, I’d say buying a console is more of a downgrade. ;) Again, I am not buying it for one game and yeah, excuse me for not seeing many other interesting console-exclusive titles on the horizon (or in a console’s back catalogue), especially not on the Xbox360.
There is no way Brutal Legend is as finicky as a Devil May Cry 4 or any another Capcom title that according to its console fanbase is supposedly not fit to play with keyboard+mouse controls (leaving that option out is the easy way out of course for the devs and a great way to make sure your console port won’t sell on PC). Action games are not a taboo on PC, some folks don’t want to understand that apparently.
03/07/2009 at 12:49 Tei says:
The bad thing about living a dystopia where corporations rule about what you can do, and what you can’t do (consoles) is that some people don’t even miss freedom.
It seems, If all your life has been a slave, freedom is a alien thing to you, and you don’t miss it.
But I am mostly like a bushman, I need the open sky, and the freedom to go anywhere and do anything I want.
Also consoles are gameplay from 1986. I have already played all the games of that year. I don’t like that tired and obsolete gamming style, with savepoints, and a poor control scheme. Life is much better with a hard disk to make infinite quicksaves, a keyboard (any keys you want, withouth complicated ‘combos’) and a mouse (exact precission control). Is 2009 gameplay. And you can’t have it on the consoles.
Most console games still play like freakin “arcade saloon” machines, penny arcade machines.
The next generation of consoles will be different, as hard disk will be mandatory. But this one is horrible.
03/07/2009 at 12:50 Chaz says:
Oh here we go again, the same old tiresome consoles vs PC arguments, yawn.
Yes there are some great console games of which there is no reason why there shouldn’t be a good PC port of them. At the same time there are also plenty of great PC games that could but don’t make the trip over to the consoles.
There is no one format that has all the games, and it’s always been like this. If you want to play a decent variety of games, then you have to invest in more than one gaming platform. Fact of life right now, sorry.
03/07/2009 at 12:53 Rinox says:
@ Sunjammer:
While I agree with Schafer not owing any of us anything, I would like to reply to your question why ‘hardcore’ gamers (dreadful as the term may be, most of us here fall under it I guess) don’t own both a PC and a console of our choosing.
The answer is: because I don’t have the money to reasonably spend on both a PC and consoles. PC being my primary platform, I’d have to buy an Xbox 360 for games like Mass Effect (on release), a PS3 for a game like Heavy Rain, etc etc. I can’t afford a PC and one console, let alone 2 or 3. :(
03/07/2009 at 13:03 Bongo says:
Have a 360, but it’s rarely used now a days. I found that I really like sitting by my PC and playing. Much more so than in my couch by my TV. It’s my preferred way and it would’ve been swell to play Brütal Legend like that too. Well it’s probably not his decision anyway, so I don’t think people should be so hard on him, even though his answer could’ve been worded better (I thought ArmA 2 was an action game) :)
03/07/2009 at 13:03 Butler` says:
The only thing that could make this more controvertial is saying it’s because of RAMPANT PIRACY ON THE PC PLATFORM!
03/07/2009 at 13:04 Nick says:
I’m a “hardcore” PC gamer with a wii and a DS as well.. (and xbox, gamecube, n64, gameboy advance sp, snes, nes, gameboy/colour if we are counting..).
So, yeah.
03/07/2009 at 13:05 Bongo says:
The DS is great when you are waiting to respawn in your chosen PC game :)
03/07/2009 at 13:19 The_B says:
I love games.
I don’t think there’s any need to qualify that statement by tying it to platforms. If a game was awesome for a fucking Casio digital watch, I’d want to play it. I just happen to have the most experience and knowledge on the PC and use it as my primary gaming platform.
Anyway: FEEEED THE WORRRRLLLD, MAKE IT A BETTER PLAAACCCE! FOR YOU AND FOR MEE AND THE ENTIIIREEEE HUMAN RAAAACCCEE!
03/07/2009 at 13:21 Kris says:
Oh hell, I’ll throw my two penneth in, even though it’s a mere echo of virtually all that’s been said.
Far too many posts seem to confirm Tim’s view of blind fanboy hate. The lack of creativity in console games really grates as its patently false. Creativity is employed across all formats under varying constraints. Any ‘best of’ list whether judged on creativity, quality or any mix of criteria will include all formats.
I’ll admit that pad support alone allows the PC to host Brutal Legend, though the old arguments about pads vs keyboard is rubbish. Pad is better when you want 2 or more analogue inputs for your game and mouse and keyboard dont cut it. Keyboard is good when you need high speed screen navigation i.e. pointer and a large number of discrete digital inputs available at any given moment i.e. better than pads need for sub menu’s to provide alt functions for limited amont of buttons. It just depends on the game’s design as to what is needed / what is best.
Tim only says they are focused on consoles at the moment, as many have noted, this doesnt rule out a PC conversion (possibly with improvements) later.
Surely live and let live is the best policy.
03/07/2009 at 13:34 Gap Gen says:
“There isn’t anything inherently wrong with sequels. They build upon the milieu of the prior work and can thus deliver a deeper experience. THe problem is that most sequels tend to be crap because they are developed for the sake of creating a sequel rather than a burning need by the creators to continue the story.”
I agree that many games do well with sequels – Empire is a far richer game than Shogun, for example (it’s also based around a different time). But yeah, I don’t see much need for, say, Raz, to continue his story. It seems like Schafer’s desire is to prevent other people doing this, rather than so that he can do it himself.
03/07/2009 at 13:36 Gap Gen says:
I don’t think a console-only release is necessarily a bad thing. I’d rather have a good game on a format I don’t own than a broken mess of cross-platform development on one I do. Plus, a 360 is under £200, with the cheapest one being close to £100, so I may well splash out if this turns out to be good.
I don’t think the cry of “release on PC!” is a platform fanboyism thing. People want to play good games without having to buy new machines, is all.
03/07/2009 at 13:41 cullnean says:
wee_____@@___woo!
____/_____||___\_____
/o——-CARE-POLICE—-@\
\—-(0)====+====(0)—–/
03/07/2009 at 13:42 Larington says:
@Gap Gen: Agree very much. :-)
03/07/2009 at 13:42 cullnean says:
meh that went wrong, any hoo calm down fellas its only a game
03/07/2009 at 13:48 cullnean says:
plus it has jack black in it and i doubt even schafer can make him funny.
03/07/2009 at 14:19 Mort says:
“My question is, ‘Why all the hate for consoles?’ ”
I don´t hate them, I just don´t own them, I don´t want to own them just for the few games that really matter, I already have a PC and I want(ed) to play your game… Simple as that.
There´s like 3 or 4 of them you know, currently active consoles I mean, they all have games worth playing and neither the platform nor the games come exactly for free in a mcdonalds happy meal.
03/07/2009 at 14:20 tacitus says:
I always felt guilty for not liking Psychonauts, since all the critics “in the know” seem to think he is the greatest . I no longer feel guilty. I don’t own a console and have plenty of PC Games – including ACTION titles. Saying this I hope he reconsiders since I suspect it wouldn’t do as well as people think; and snubbing an historical part of your audience is a bad thing.
03/07/2009 at 14:32 Sunjammer says:
Well guys, the thing is, there are so many good games on consoles (downloadable or hard retail) that the purchase of one, in my case a 360, is just perfectly logical.
I’ve spent a shit ton of money on my PC gaming rig, way more on individual components than i’ve invested in a console. They simply aren’t that expensive versus what you get for that money. Put another way (a hateful way), there is a reason people buy consoles.
This is kind of a mirror argument to the “why is game X only on the 360 and not the PS3″ hullabaloo, and i think it’s even more moot. The 360 and PS3 are at least analogous. The PC is, imho, different enough a beast in terms of the market and userbase that it doesn’t warrant a port if the port will er.. feel like a port.
I’m GLAD Prototype is on the PC, but it has no business being on there. It feels completely abberrant. On the other hand, i fear the day ARMA2 makes its console debut.
Consoles are good at console games. PCs are good at PC games. There is a difference, and i don’t think it’s justifiable to call Tim Schafer a dick for being conscious of that.
03/07/2009 at 15:09 Dominic White says:
@Sunjammer – you do know that the original Operation Flashpoint got ported to the Xbox, and successfully, too? Almost no changes beyond the editor getting simplified a bit. If that can make it to consoles unharmed, then anything is possible, with a good enough team doing the porting.
03/07/2009 at 15:17 gulag says:
Who am I kidding? I can’t afford to buy a machine that does only one thing, no matter how good the games are/might be.
03/07/2009 at 15:22 Tom says:
I’d love to hear what the core differences are between console and PC games from a professional, well adjusted persons point of view.
I’m not really seeing it myself.
And if anyone chips in with gamepads just aren’t made for FPS’s I’ll go nuts. I play L4D, TF2 etc with my 360 pad and still whoop arse.
Personally feel that the analogue (as apposed to digital) input for movement gives me an advantage when playing with classes such as the scout, sniper and spy.
03/07/2009 at 15:28 Shadout says:
Why I “hate” consoles?
Because of jerk answers like that. Oh, and exclusives.
Hell, Ive considered to buy a console for ages (but again, one console isnt enough either because of their fucking (sorry) exclusives), just havent done it, and to be realistic, Im probably not going to.
Burtal Legend seems like a game I would have bought (although I would wait for reviews) but its not a game that would make me get a console on its own.
03/07/2009 at 15:34 Tom says:
Also, surely building a game that’s so tightly based around a specific control scheme is madness from a developer/profit point of view.
03/07/2009 at 15:38 Bhazor says:
The reason I don’t have a console is that I don’t have a TV so buying a console would also include a TV and a liscence. Which combined cost more than my upper-mid range computer.
But oh my, these comments are painful to read.
Reply to Quests
You do realise the DS is the reason for the adventure and turn based strategy renaissance right?
03/07/2009 at 15:52 int says:
To quote Kanye West: Tim Schaefer doesn’t care about PC GAMERS!
03/07/2009 at 15:59 Paul Moloney says:
“And if anyone chips in with gamepads just aren’t made for FPS’s I’ll go nuts.”
Ummm, gamepads aren’t made for FPSs?
*ducks*
When you say you whoop ass, can you whoop ass against someone with a mouse? In that case, ass is still being whooped, but not optimal whooping.
I’ve honestly tried to play FPSs with a gamepad, but have given up. The sniper rifle in Halo 3 is perhaps the most useless weapon I have, and I drunkensly sway up,down left and right trying to centre on someone’s head. Perhaps I am just too old.
P.
03/07/2009 at 16:02 Smurfy says:
What a dick.
03/07/2009 at 16:04 Vinraith says:
@Paul Moloney
“When you say you whoop ass, can you whoop ass against someone with a mouse? In that case, ass is still being whooped, but not optimal whooping.”
You forgot an important qualifier: “with the auto-aim turned off.” Most console gamers don’t realize how imprecise controllers are as a result of the default auto-aim in every console FPS game.
03/07/2009 at 16:09 Psychopomp says:
WHY YOU DO THAT TIM? ;_;
Also
“They should just add “Official Xbox 360 Controller” to the minimum requirements and port it over, if that makes em feel better. ”
People would bitch about *that.*
03/07/2009 at 16:18 Paul Moloney says:
” I drunkensly sway”
That was a typo, but now that I read it again, I think “drunkensly” is an even better word.
P.
03/07/2009 at 16:23 Sunjammer says:
Tom, a control scheme is as intrinsic to a game design as anything else. On consoles, 100% reconfigurable schemes are an extreme rarity, and that has been the accepted standard for over a decade. PC gamers are about the only demographic that consistently demand completely reconfigurable controls.
Gamepads since the Dreamcast have been roughly analogous (barring the Wii insanity, and even that has the classic controller), so a console control scheme rarely if ever needs rethinking when a game is ported to another console. Only for the PC, and honestly, if i have to take my console centric game design and jury rig it to play tight on a PC as well (possibly having to rebalance it because of the lack of analog movement controls and single “analog stick”), and all that for a market where piracy is rampant and distribution is anarchy, methinks it’s time to say fuck you PCs.
It’s not madness. It’s sensibility.
03/07/2009 at 16:26 Tworak says:
Who cares? Tim Schafer turned to shit long ago.
03/07/2009 at 16:27 TCM says:
IMO, there are two genres that control better on PCs than consoles: FPS games, and Strategy games.
Anything outside of those genres is better off on a console.
03/07/2009 at 16:28 Paul Moloney says:
“Most console gamers don’t realize how imprecise controllers are as a result of the default auto-aim in every console FPS game.”
Indeed, and that – the fact that the game is playing itself for you – is another reason I just don’t understand FPSs on console. The main reason I enjoy GTA IV on PC far more over the originals is that you can finally shoot as you like without having to use that awful targetting system. (I just wish I could finish that last damn mission.)
P.
03/07/2009 at 16:45 Tom says:
“but not optimal whooping.” LOL!
“You forgot an important qualifier: “with the auto-aim turned off.””
There is no auto aim option in the PC versions of L4D or TF2.
I’m a PC gamer mate. No consoles in my house. Apart from an old XBox modded with XMBC (which is freakin’ awesome by the by – http://xbmc.org/)
03/07/2009 at 16:48 Tom says:
“Most console gamers don’t realize how imprecise controllers are as a result of the default auto-aim in every console FPS game.”
They’re highly precise, and movement is considerable more precise. The difference is imo when using K+M you rely on the mouse for aiming. With a controller you reply on a combination of movement and aiming – which I swear to god can work to your advantage.
03/07/2009 at 16:59 Falling Down says:
Meh
03/07/2009 at 17:06 Tworak says:
Is Tom being serious? Well I laughed at least. Ty m8.
03/07/2009 at 17:06 That Guy says:
Ah, quick yer bitching.
You KNOW full well once the game’s been released they’re gonna work on a PC version for Steam. :/
03/07/2009 at 17:50 DethDonald says:
I just bought SFIV for PC I’m pretty sure it wasn’t designed to run on a mouse and keyboard. BUT IT WORKS!
03/07/2009 at 18:45 Guhndahb says:
Wow this is depressing. I really had hoped it would find its way to PC. I adore Tim, not just from his games but I love reading his blog, but those are pitiful arguments. (a) This isn’t about hating consoles, it’s about loving the PC. (b) A gamepad works great on a PC. (c) Psychonauts was in no way “for a PC” – it was a console game through and through – and yet it was great. (d) And even if hating consoles is part of it, that doesn’t mean hate for some of the great games for consoles. It’s equally regretful that those never made it to the PC!
Seriously, I know we all say stupid things sometimes when we are put on the spot but I’m really disappointed with Tim’s response. I’d rather him just say it was a business decision and those are the breaks than make up utterly absurd excuses.
03/07/2009 at 18:49 tmp says:
That’s circular reasoning, i think — using it some dozen years back we could argue that FPS games are “completely aberrant” on consoles because at that time there wasn’t any, and the gamepads of the era offered inferior input scheme compared to mouse/keyboard.
As it is now a gamepad is something easily available and supported from the get-go on a PC, and so there’s very little technical reasons against releasing action games built around such control scheme on the PC. It is also a much cheaper purchase than a console — so it is rather funny to see arguments how making certain games for console only is “fine, people just need to buy a console, they only cost few hundreds” but at the same time making these very games on PCs can’t possibly work “because not everyone has a gamepad”…
03/07/2009 at 19:23 Nahual says:
“I’ve spent a shit ton of money on my PC gaming rig, way more on individual components than i’ve invested in a console.”
Ok, i know you’re not a PC gamer now cause a real PC gamer knows the most expensive part is the graphics card, and a graphics card that can run even crysis on max details (GF260gtx) can be had for $180, which is about half what a 360 with hd goes for.
03/07/2009 at 19:26 Nahual says:
Also, what the hell is this about Prototype?
It plays excellent with M&K, the only thing it could use is not being stupid about letting you map keys on additional mouse buttons.
03/07/2009 at 21:56 Mercurial says:
Got my subscribers edition of PC Zone today;
Page 23 reads as follows, when asked the question “Why no Brutal Legend for PC?”
He replies that if it were up to him then it would be available “for all formats”. The interviewer then goes on to put the blame on EA directly.
So maybe Mr. Schafer’s lighthearted “hater” remark has been blown out of all proportion by angry internet men.
03/07/2009 at 22:04 Toby says:
“The reason I don’t have a console is that I don’t have a TV so buying a console would also include a TV and a liscence. Which combined cost more than my upper-mid range computer.”
Well, my Xbox 360 can easily be hooked up to my computer monitor. Sound is no problem either, just plug the S/PDIF into my audio card, and woila, 5.1 Dolby Digital sound though my PC speakers. In fact, I don’t even own a telly, and still game on most current gen platforms. So I would hardly say that a TV + license is required.
“Ok, i know you’re not a PC gamer now cause a real PC gamer knows the most expensive part is the graphics card, and a graphics card that can run even crysis on max details (GF260gtx) can be had for $180, which is about half what a 360 with hd goes for.”
In the US perhaps. A GF260gtx as you mentioned, can be had for around £130 and a 60GB 360 sets you back around £160. Hardly double the price.
But regarding TS comment, I can’t really get mad about it. Yes, I would have liked it to get a PC release too, but I have long since realised that in order to play the games that I want to, I need to invest in more than one platform. However, I usually wait a while after launch before I get a new console. That way I can get it at a reduced price, and the games I am interested in are usually also cheap (yes, console games can get price reductions too).
Perhaps I am just more patient than the average gamer. ;)
03/07/2009 at 22:50 Anthony Damiani says:
Pity; it looks kinda cool, I would have bought a copy.
Oh, well. I’ll have to go play something else, instead.
03/07/2009 at 23:00 Mr. Brand says:
RPS comment threads: The bastion of tolerance :)
There’s a third genre that belongs on PCs: MMOs. Don’t even TRY to make a console MMO. You need lots of buttons, text chat and precise mouse controls.
Although I like some console FPSes. It’s possible to play some of them and actually enjoy it!
It’s amazing how many haters there are here. I like being able to buy a cheap game off XBLA now and then. Some games have PC ports, but they tend to cost more. Consoles have just as many fun little (exclusive) indie game releases as the PC nowadays, so I feel they’re required :)
03/07/2009 at 23:53 Nick says:
They are a fuck load more tolerant than most other gaming site comment threads, to be fair.
04/07/2009 at 02:09 Nahual says:
@Toby:
Can’t say i know about the prices in Europe, but here:
GF260gtx $184.99 with a $30 mail in rebate for a total of 154.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130434
Cheapest Xbox with a HD: $299:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16868105009
$399 for the pro version.
The point being, it’s really obvious when someone who’s doesn’t know crap about PC gaming tries to ninja slam the PC with lame arguments like “i’m a PC gamer too and it sucks i spend more money on one component than on a console!, see i’m one of you!”.
04/07/2009 at 08:39 The Apologist says:
Agree with GapGen, I just don’t want to pay console prices and I’d rather play on PC.
And no, they can do what they like with their product.
What is irritating is the implication that because I like PC I am an unreasoning fanboy with only hate for the consoles that I paid (a lot) of money for, and trying to pretend to me that the PC can’t handle the game is patronising.
04/07/2009 at 08:43 The Apologist says:
Or rather, yes, they can do what they like with their product!
04/07/2009 at 11:03 Stupoider says:
I always knew this would come down to EA. :/
04/07/2009 at 15:48 free2game says:
I think the article creator has too much respect for Tim to actually be critical of what he says. You could do a PC port of a game like this with ease, all you’d really need to throw on it is another 4-5 people to balance controls/UI issues and recompile code to get it working on PC hardware. It’s not difficult at all or expensive and pretty embarrassing that it’s something that they couldn’t manage considering this is supposed to be a game that’s cost upwards of 15-20 million dollars to develop.
04/07/2009 at 16:19 Dominic White says:
And on a lighter note, here’s 17 minutes of gameplay footage, playing through the tutorial area of the game, narrated by Tim Schaefer.
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-brutal-legend/17-979/
After that video, the game apparently turns into an open-world Zeldalike, which is pretty neat.
04/07/2009 at 16:22 ToadSmokingDuckMonkey says:
(note: I refer to PCs as “personal computers” and not necessarily “IBM-compatibles”)
*Puts on crotchety old man pants and straw hat*
Whenever personal computing platforms and the PC roughly aligned in architecture and capability, two things happen:
1. Mainstream gaming press asks “Is this the end for games on PC?”
2. Lots of games get ported back and forth.
The 8-bit era: Turrican was a C64 game that got ported all over the 8-bit universe; lots of games for the weird panoply of Japanese 8/16-bit PCs made the leap to the Famicom and NES (Metal Gear was originally a game for the MSX), and some games made for the Famicom went back the other way. Many games that started on the Apple ][ made it to NES in some form or another; Ultima(s) for one(s).
Then, high end 386 machines and Amiga begin to exceed the consoles in some technical areas, and in the case of the PC, lag behind in others. Fewer games get ported in between, but some seminal arcade ports make the jump, like Street Fighter 2.
Ah, the Playstation era. Arguably a golden age of PC gaming. We PC types began to get everything- internet multiplayer, LAN parties, 3D graphics. Because PCs were so much more powerful in the 3D department than the PSX, PCs received a port of anything anyone cared about- Final Fantasy 7-9 (playing FF on PC is “wrong”? Hah! FF7 shipped with Glide support!), Metal Gear Solid, every awful 3D fighter, and the worst of the lot- up-ports of FPSes designed for the Playstation pre-analog stick.
The PS2 arrived, ushered in a brief era in which it was too much work to port a custom lump of code for the (then) more powerful PS2 to PC. PC had to wait awhile for GTA3, but once that crossed over, the ports started to trickle in. The Xbox was kept on life support by ports of PC shooters, and there never was much 3rd part stuff to migrate off the Wii.
Now, we again live in an age where the capabilities of PCs and consoles are on par. Lots of games go back and forth between platforms, though fewer PC games this generation seem to be making the leap.. Capcom is making an honest effort on their console->PC ports; while the UI in their games might scream console, they are stellar experiences nonetheless.
With Squeenix buying into the PC RTS market with Supreme Commander, Blizzard raking in zillions of dollars on PC gaming, I don’t think anyone can say PC gaming is dead. Developers do make lots of excuses though, and if we players read between the lines carefully, we arrive at the truth:
Publishers are colluding with console manufacturers to lock down the player’s experience as far as they can, in order to look for more cash. The PC, what with the freedom and all, doesn’t fit at all into their plans.
I feel that digital gaming in general was a far more diverse place in those times when games moved both directions.
04/07/2009 at 16:24 ToadSmokingDuckMonkey says:
Tim Shafer, I am buying Brutal Legend, used, for $15. No delicious Duck-Money for you.
04/07/2009 at 18:11 Deg says:
Instead of buying a $300 console, I bought a $30 gamepad for my PC. It’s a shame Brutal Legend won’t be coming to my platform, because that means I don’t get to play it. :(
04/07/2009 at 18:12 Deg says:
Instead of buying a $300 console, I bought a $30 gamepad for my PC. It’s a shame Brutal Legend won’t be coming to PC because that means I don’t get to play it. :(
04/07/2009 at 20:34 IanK says:
Some games are designed for consoles, some for PC. What’s the big deal? We don’t see console gamers pissing and moaning because they aren’t getting StarCraft 2, do we?
The last thing anyone wants is half-hearted ports on either platform. Let the consoles have great games, and the PC too. A small dev team like Doublefine can only tackle so many platforms at once. If the game does well we may yet see our PC port.
04/07/2009 at 21:30 Mercurial says:
ToadSmokingDuckMonkey said –
“Publishers are colluding with console manufacturers to lock down the player’s experience as far as they can, in order to look for more cash. The PC, what with the freedom and all, doesn’t fit at all into their plans.”
In that paragraph, I think is the truth of matter. I don’t think its some vast conspiracy, just the way the markets heading considering the large development costs these days for a AAA title.
04/07/2009 at 23:52 tmp says:
With Halo Wars selling a million units in a single month don’t get too attached to this particular argument.
05/07/2009 at 06:03 jackflash says:
Whatever. Bohemia seem to be making money hand over fist with hardcore PC titles like ArmA 2, so I will just support developers like them. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind the console kids sharing in the fun, but I agree with the “first wife” commenters. These developers made their names and fortunes on PC games and now they leave us in the cold. Not classy.
05/07/2009 at 11:04 Larington says:
Sparta!
(Sorry, couldn’t resist)
05/07/2009 at 12:21 Ben says:
I don’t HATE consoles, I don’t HAVE one, there’s a difference! D:
05/07/2009 at 16:49 Wulf says:
“Publishers are colluding with console manufacturers to lock down the player’s experience as far as they can, in order to look for more cash.”
That may be true, but it’s a damn shame because the PC is alwasy the first home of mods; it’s easy to create mods on a PC, it’s easy to test mods on a PC. Ask anyone who’s tinkered with the ability to run mods on the PS3, it’s a huge pain in the arse to develop a mod for the PS3 UT 3, the best thing to do is to ignore the PS3 until you’re done with the mod then wrap up a final version.
Fallout 3 is a great example of this; Bethesda first saying that there wouldn’t be an SDK was harrowing, it meant that their games were going the way of the consoles, and that’s bloody criminal because the right mods can make a Bethesda game better, invariably.
A fine example of this is the J3X bikes. Yes, you can now drive the nuclear-powered bikes in Fallout 3, it’s all very mad max, you can even attach dual-chainguns to ‘em, that not enough? How about duel lasers, duel flamers, and the likes? And they can be modified to an almost insane degree, and there’s really nothing like driving a bike through the wastes, try it and see!
The funny point of all this was that there were comments on the video along the lines of: “Bethesda better continue to support us console users and give us bikes, that’s all I can say.” And that’s being polite, there was much envy there, much, much envy, and user-created content will continue to make Fallout 3 great. Just like it’s made so many other PC games that can be modded great.
Imagine, if you will, a World in which Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines had been a console only release.
But thank goodness it wasn’t, that meant that we had community patches and custom content which greatly improves the game. The same will be true of ArmA II soon (I’m personally hoping some mad-hatter will introduce ridable Dragons to ArmA II just to screw with people, marines versus the out-heavings of a rift to a fantasy Universe, what could go wrong with that?), and will be true of any game at all, ever, for the PC that can be changed.
The reason I never really got into the consoles is because barring a few titles (like LittleBigPlanet, LBP was freaking awesome) they tend to completely lock out user creativity and content, and I won’t lie, there are games that were simply built for user-content and I couldn’t have had fun with them any other way. The first Neverwinter Nights is a great example of this, it had a shit campaign, and rather boring expansions, but the player created multiplayer campaigns (that required a DM) I have fond memories of, very fond memories.
Often, I’ll be playing a console game or a locked-down PC game and think to myself “Sigh, if only this were moddable, I could fix that or someone else could.”, I’ve done my fair share of modding too and eventually it becomes ingrained and when a game is broken it becomes a 100 times more jarring when it’s all locked up. Because you might be able to see how it’s broken, and you might know how to fix it, but at the same time you have this feeling of helplessness because you know you can’t mod it, you can’t fix that decent game and do your bit to make it a great game.
And some games are really broken, look at Return to Chernobyl, that’s another game that probably would’ve been left and forgotten if not for mods fixing up the parts that needed to be fixed.
And modding just opens so many doors. There was one module in Neverwinter Nights where I wanted to play it as a half-Dragon, and thanks to various modders (blessed modders) I could do just that, and I had an enviably higher-res model than any of my other party members too.
And there are mods for NWN2 too that add all sorts of things, new weapons, armour, and items (of all descriptions), new scenarios, even new races to play (I’m particularly fond of one mod that has fully fleshed out Lizardmen). And that just extends the life of the game by giving one the desire to go back and play some new content, or some old content in an entirely new way.
Every console game in my opinion is lost potential, because it’ll never be modded, it’ll never be remembered, there won’t be a community of people looking to shine up a decent game into a glowing gem, and that… that is a crying shame. And that’s why I really don’t care for consoles, and probably never will.
06/07/2009 at 15:47 Nalano says:
There are a couple things about this whole PC vs Console debate that I think need to be fleshed out a bit more:
a) This is a PC gamer website. Thus, all the comments are biased. Also, so am I.
b) Consoles are PCs. No, seriously. They’re just pre-packaged PCs with standardized hardware and exclusive cartridge systems, thus bringing us to point c:
c) As such, any exclusivity on a console is solely the product of the marketing efforts of that console’s home company. M$ bought and moved Bungie Studios from the PC market to console market exclusivity for the expressed purpose of selling xboxes. This brings two others points:
d) Don’t believe a damn word any gaming rag says about the relative worth of consoles vs PCs (see b&c), because journalistic integrity hardly exists in the real world, let alone the gaming industry, and ten times outta ten the rag in question is in the pocket of whatever company that needs products sold, and
e) the “division” between consoles and PCs in terms of culture, custom or gaming style are by definition solely the product of the marketing efforts of companies that want to slice off and control their corner of the market. If a company says that Katamari plays better on a console, that company isn’t saying that consoles are better at playing Katamari. That company is saying “we’ve bought the rights to this game in order to sell our consoles.”
In conclusion, I’m not buying a console for two reasons:
1) I already have a PC.
2) I don’t want to be beholden to a single company’s marketing engine. Imagine if GfWL was your only source of content…
06/07/2009 at 16:45 CarltonS says:
Dear lord, what an outburst for what essentially was a gentle Schaferesque jab. The latter part he’s messing with you, folks. Although, those console games he mentions are gems.
Well it’s really an action game, that when you play it you’ll see that it was meant to be on a console.
Mind you, he didn’t say action games don’t belong on the PC. He is just saying his action game was made for the consoles, not the PC. He probably means controls, which is a weak argument, but there’s a billion other reasons Double Fine is probably not doing it for PC out the box. Most of them have already been mentioned.
I have both a PC and 360, and I honestly tend to play very specific things on both. Action games that involve the need for quick reflexes and strung together combos I always get for 360. Things like Prototype is okay for PC, but it just feels better with a controller in my hand. Same with sports games and especially fighting games. Also, certainly, there is more robust an online community for these games on the consoles.
FPS, RTS, and RPG games all go on the PC for me. Hating either one for whatever reason other than their actual problems and limitations (hardware failure, cost, etc.) always seemed silly. They all bring benefits, and no one gaming crowd is more intelligent than the other.
I also have a hard time thinking Schafer will NEVER bring it to PC. And if he didn’t I wouldn’t be surprised if one of his next titles was something that was far more suited for PC, like an adventure game.
06/07/2009 at 16:55 Nalano says:
@ CarltonS
“but there’s a billion other reasons Double Fine is probably not doing it for PC out the box. Most of them have already been mentioned.”
Yes. Just not by Tim Schafer.
06/07/2009 at 17:08 CarltonS says:
The funny thing is that if Schafer admitted they weren’t going to do it because of time constraints or because they thought it wouldn’t sell as well, PC enthusiasts would still probably be just as angry at him.
People are already claiming he turned his back on his roots, which is hilarious, because it’s not like he said the PC is a terrible platform, he just doesn’t feel this game is right for it. What’s the problem with that? I don’t blame him for that, especially considering I’ve heard juggernaut companies such as Blizzard say the exact same thing about their PC products porting to consoles.
06/07/2009 at 17:10 Zyrxil says:
The idea is that consoles have inherent limitations, whereas PCs are only limited by what parts the owner has/hasn’t bought.
06/07/2009 at 17:27 CarltonS says:
@Zyrxil
Other than some online limitations, mostly focused in MMOs and active online platforms like Steam, I don’t see how this argument works. Many of Blizzard’s RTS games could be ported to the consoles without problems. Other people that have had bigger more dynamic RTS games have done it, and done it rather successfully.
I actually think the only strong excuse for not porting for either side is they just think one platform crowd will make them more money and appreciate it more than the other. Even though there have been RTS games gone to consoles, just like fighting games for PC, it never turns out well in sales.
06/07/2009 at 18:16 Zyrxil says:
Of course the argument works. Mouse/keyboard don’t work well when you’re on a couch without a desk. Complex GUIs don’t work well when you’re sitting 10 feet away from the screen.
07/07/2009 at 00:10 Nalano says:
@CarltonS
“The funny thing is that if Schafer admitted they weren’t going to do it because of time constraints or because they thought it wouldn’t sell as well, PC enthusiasts would still probably be just as angry at him.”
“I actually think the only strong excuse for not porting for either side is they just think one platform crowd will make them more money and appreciate it more than the other.”
You make a lot of grand assumptions about the nature of gamerdom. The demographics of PC and console gamers aren’t divided – indeed a large swath of gamers own not only multiple consoles but a computer as well. The division is created by the manufacturers of consoles, because if you could play every game on the PC, why would you fork over the dough for a console?
14/10/2009 at 23:06 Donald Task says:
1987 Maniac Mansion, tools programmer, SCUMM (LucasArts)
1990 The Secret of Monkey Island, co-writer (LucasArts)
1991 Monkey Island 2: LeChuck’s Revenge, co-designer, co-writer (LucasArts)
1993 Maniac Mansion: Day of the Tentacle, co-designer, co-producer, co-director, co-writer (LucasArts)
1995 Full Throttle, writer, designer, project leader (LucasArts)
1998 Grim Fandango, project leader, writer, designer (LucasArts)
2005 Psychonauts, creative director, co-writer, designer (Double Fine, Majesco)
Every other Schafer game was on PC, this is complete bullshit.
31/08/2010 at 01:26 Name!!! says:
Right its action so it shouldn’t be on PC … -_- Tim I’m sorry Brutal Legend is cool but you are an idiot I mean hell its got a bunch of RTS aspects in it and would run and play much better on PC and the controls would own on PC.
Also PC has all the action games stop falling into the Greedy mindset that is Console gaming all a console does is lock you down to a single company (microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc.) and force you to buy a whole new console instead of making a small $100-$200 upgrade every 5+ years that you don’t even need but can get if you want to stay ahead of the graphic curve.