By Jim Rossignol on October 8th, 2011 at 9:01 am.
Kotaku Australia are reporting this Ukrainian publication’s interview with GSC’s Studio Director Sergey Grigorovich. In it it he answers a huge number of questions, revealing little about the sequel apart from question one about “security” for the forthcoming game:
“Software piracy is an issue for us, we try to fight it, but within reason… Protection from piracy? Part of the content will be located on the server and downloaded as the game progresses. Permanent internet access is required. Text information, code and quests will be loaded through that connection.”
I’ve contacted GSC for a statement.
08/10/2011 at 09:04 Meat Circus says:
The stupid fuckers have just killed their own game. :(
I was vaguely looking forward to playing it too. What a shame.
Jim: I assume RPS will be denying them any further breathless expectation until they (inevitably) reverse this inexplicably fuckwitted decision?
08/10/2011 at 09:49 Pod42 says:
They killed it for me when they announced it for consoles, but this has just put the nail in the coffin.
08/10/2011 at 10:35 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
“They killed it for me when they announced it for consoles.”
Get over yourself.
Games can be aimed at both PC and consoles and still be great. The technical advantages of high-end PCs are no guarantee of game quality, even less of accessibility. And the technical limits of consoles do not prevent games taking full advantage of the PC.
Look at Valve, a champion of PC gaming if ever there was one. Team Fortress 2, Portal, Portal 2, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2—none of these were compromised on the PC despite being released simultaneously for Xbox and/or PS3.
Or closer to GSC: Metro 2033 was released simultaneously for PC and Xbox, and it is so very much at home on a high-end PC.
I deride games that are poorly ported from consoles to PC as much as anyone. But judge a game on its merits, and not just because it’s being released on multiple platforms.
08/10/2011 at 10:47 Bull0 says:
Metro 2033 was a new property, and Stalker is a PC property. The original Stalker would not translate at all well to consoles without sweeping changes because of the fiddliness and idiosyncrasies, but all of that made it a cult hit on PC. Hearing that for Stalker 2 they’re simultaneously developing it for consoles is pretty alarming.
In a nutshell: context is everything, you missed it.
@Meat Circus Ordinarily I react badly to people who scream “You’ve killed your game because you’ve got DRM”, but in the case of Stalker, I think the game’s footprint is a bit narrower and it’s got that cult feel and in those circumstances this announcement really could be quite damaging, so I’m with you.
08/10/2011 at 10:51 Pod42 says:
I’m not talking about technical limits, nor bad ports, but the term “dumbed down” accounts for gameplay, level design, UI, the whole bleedin lot. The game needs to be catered for console or PC, never pulls it off with both.
BF3 is trying to pull off both and look at the uproar for that. You use Portal 2 as an example of not being compromised but I use it as a prime example that it was (Grey walls with answers, no twitch portaling etc).
I might need to get over myself but it’s a firm belief from the result of many let downs.
08/10/2011 at 11:03 Octaeder says:
@Pod42
Your Portal 2 example conveniently misses the point that Portal was also a multiplatform release. If you really feel that Portal 2 was dumbed down, being on a console was not the reason for it.
08/10/2011 at 11:21 Bull0 says:
Except Portal came before Portal 2, and it’s perfectly likely that feedback about Portal’s twitchier shots being difficult on consoles was taken into account when developing Portal 2. If we’re conveniently missing points
08/10/2011 at 11:40 DrGonzo says:
I agree that stalker will likely suffer. But your portal 2 comment is rubbish. Both my girlfriend and my dad both gave up on portal 1 due to the twitchy bits and they ate both pc gamers, yet none of my console friends had a problem with it. The reason twitch bits were removed is because they aren’t fun and are completely out of place in a puzzle game.
08/10/2011 at 11:51 skinlo says:
The twitch mechanic added no benefit in Portal 1 except to those who like to do glitch out the game and do speed runs. I haven’t missed it at all.
08/10/2011 at 12:25 Bull0 says:
I don’t exactly mourn its’ passing either but there’s no denying it made the game easier, and there’s also no denying it’s more difficult to pull off the twitchy shots on a console than it is with the accuracy of a mouse. That is the full extent of my meaning – I’m no game designer
08/10/2011 at 12:46 Jumwa says:
DrGonzo is absolutely right. PC gamer only here (we own a Wii but haven’t hardly touched it in a couple years). The only parts of the first Portal I didn’t enjoy, were the parts where you had to be a quick draw with your portal gun, with those gun turrents or while flying around at super speed. It was tense and unpleasant for a puzzle game. When Portal 2 was on its way, my biggest fear was that they would do more of that. I was more than pleasantly surprised to see they got rid of it altogether.
As for this STALKER 2 news? Well, they just lost themselves one sale here. I bought the last game the moment it came out, and I’ve been a huge fan of the series. But no way am I going to buy any single player game from a company that does this sort of garbage to its customers.
08/10/2011 at 13:04 Mattressi says:
Bah, morons. They’ve lost a sale from me too. I’ve bought SoC, CS and CoP and I’ve been hanging out for this for ages – but there’s no way in hell I’m going to buy it unless they remove their crappy DRM. With any luck they’re only talking about the DRM for the Russian version; I remember something about how the Russian versions of one of the Stalker games had Starforce and Westerner’s flipped out about it, so GSC dropped it. Hopefully that happens this time too – for their sake and mine.
08/10/2011 at 15:24 vodka and cookies says:
@Pod42 you do need to get over yourself, as that is complete and utter nonsense I seriously doubt your even familiar with game consoles.
There are lots of deeply complex games on game consoles, Dark Souls is one of the the most popular current titles as an example. The reason some games get dumbed down is to have mass appeal and that happens regardless of platform.
If more PC gamers had actually bought Stalker instead of pirating it then they probably would never had developed a console version so you only got the PC fanboys who treat PC gaming as a free buffet to blame.
08/10/2011 at 15:25 Heisenberg says:
@Pod42
They killed it for me when they announced it for consoles, but this has just put the nail in the coffin.
If you are suggesting all console games have to be dumbed down,I strongly suggest you give ‘Dark Souls’ a go.
edit.
btw, the level design and complexity in it is incredible, and better then anything i have seen all year on PC.
08/10/2011 at 16:03 Nic Clapper says:
These games have enough rough edges as it is being pc only with content stored locally. Developing multiplatform with streaming content? I can only imagine this being quite a messy release.
Guess have to hope they somehow pull this craziness off…as stalker is one of my favorite series.
08/10/2011 at 17:20 MichaelPalin says:
Speaking of PC and consoles, I wonder if they are doing this because they want to switch their market to consoles. I mean, this is going to destroy PC sales, but not console ones. This all is so stupid that it can only be on purpose.
08/10/2011 at 18:47 alundra says:
@vodka and cookies
“If more PC gamers had actually bought Stalker instead of pirating…”
How come all drm apologist always spew the same crap? Piracy is the reason for all the evils in the world, I purchased all three soc games through steam because they were drm free PC games, now they pull this crap??
Got a better explanation for you, they got rich off the backs of they loyal PC followers, they got ambitious, now they want to pull an UBI or an EA, including the total disregard for their customers.
Seeing how UBI states that their PC sales are 90% down, these backstabbers called GSC are going to need good luck with that.
08/10/2011 at 19:42 Necroscope says:
I couldn’t give a monkeys about DRM and have never had a problem with a game or service using it, even for Settlers 7! No frikking way would I put having a good time with potentially a few rough edges over principles when it comes to PC gaming. The only thing that could prevent me from playing is if the game has completely sold out its roots of the previous installments at times phenomenal atmospheric PC-centric gameplay.
Tell me what happens to your game collection if Steam goes belly up ? Your game collection perishes. I typed into google Steam is DRM and was fascinated! :)
08/10/2011 at 20:08 Bughunter says:
“Get over yourself” is right!
Try having kids to feed and a mortgage to pay while working in an industry that relies on income from digital content. You do realize that all gaming studios are not made equal right? That just maybe some of them can’t weather piracy, don’t have “piracy in the budget”, that piracy and file sharing CAN AND DOES tank honest, small businesses. Its not just videogames, its any and all digital content.
This privileged bull attitude only comes from kids who don’t work in any related industry and expect everything for FREE. I’m right there with you when DRM or related protection cripple a game BUT when it doesn’t then I say GO FOR IT. I want the companies I respect to actually earn a dime from their efforts and to be able to feed their families.
08/10/2011 at 20:11 Pod42 says:
@vodka and cookies @Heisenberg
Clearly I’m talking about multi-plat, and know consoles have great games.
08/10/2011 at 21:05 Nielk1 says:
@vodka
DRM just makes it easier to play the Pirated version than the paid release. I know, I have tested both in numerous cases.
It is not like Stalker 2 can’t be pirated either, all it would probably involve is someone playing the game, capturing all the data, and then throwing it all on a fake server program and forcing the computer to loop back when it tries to access the external server. And in the end, using that after someone else did it would be easier than playing the game after buying it.
I can recall actually pirating games I owned just so that I could play them because of DRM garbage.
08/10/2011 at 21:31 Bughunter says:
@Nielk1: Your attitude is EXACTLY WHY there is DRM in the first place. That casual, thoughtless “meh, piracy is just a means to an end” bullcrap is putting a lot of small businesses in the dumps. And I don’t buy it either, you’re just getting into memetic arguing for arguments sake.
At a certain level, file sharing and piracy destroy honest, real people relying on the income. You don’t steal bread from the baker and go “Meh, he was probably making a ton of money anyway. Doesn’t deserve mine.” do you?
08/10/2011 at 23:47 Squiddity says:
@VelvetFistIronGlove, Left 4 Dead 2 was compromised on the PC. Its menus, FOV, and weapon size were all adjusted for console play, and if I could boot it up right now (Steam’s downloading actively on my laptop, which doesn’t have Left 4 Dead 2 on it), I’m fairly certain I would be unable to find a way to alter the FOV to fit a PC monitor.
Portal 2 was the same way.
09/10/2011 at 00:27 Randomgerbil says:
@Pod42 “They killed it for me when they announced it for consoles”
What? to add to a list of good arguements, The Witcher 2 is coming to consoles and it’s one of the best games I’ve played this year, and certainly feels like a PC RPG. Deus Ex: Human revolution got special love on the PC, so we have DX11 and stuff like the ability to change the FOV. And before you start shouting about radial menus in The Witcher, they designed it so it’d work well with a controller regardless of platfrom because that kind of combat is often better with one.
In regards to S.T.A.L.K.E.R, that’s something I’m not buying, if this nonsense isn’t stopped. There are plenty of other titles, old and new that I can get stuck into.
My line on piracy is NO. It gets murky when you own the game and pirate it as well because of horrible DRM, but I normaly go with the approach that if the goods are damaged, I dont buy them, and that’s what I view the harder forms of DRM as.
09/10/2011 at 01:41 D3xter says:
Those twitch-shots were actually (aside of the writing and general characters) one of my favourite parts of Portal, but then I usually love games that give you a lot of possibilities to do stuff (Jedi Knight 2 still being my fav multiplayer shooter with all those force-powers and glitches and stuff like wall-gliding, strafing, immense jumps and whatnot e.g.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlMCmmWRt-g or say Left4Dead with all them Hunter-jumps etc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XjIPnF5v8A (spent a lot of time on that map to at least get a somewhat respectable time myself)) and demand at least a somewhat moderate amount of “skill” to do something. I don’t exactly want Battletoads kind of hard and memorization back, but games like Super Meat Boy seem like a good compromise and I wished that they could abstract that to some other genres again too…
But hell, even here in the comments we see that several people were unhappy that they couldn’t just press a “Play” button and watch the game play itself all the way through like a movie and most developers pander to that crowd wanting games to almost run by themselves without any or much player input.
09/10/2011 at 04:11 Nielk1 says:
Bughunter:
Except that is not what I said or how I think. You are making assumptions. First of all, from the game developers I know, the biggest danger to their livelihoods are the publishers and not the pirates. I don’t see how I making the point that I have had to pirate games that I own (yes, AFTER I buy them) to get them to work gives me some sort of horrible job killing mentality. The only jobs hurt by that thought are the ones of those who make these archaic DRM solutions. It is a shame that most ppl on the side of DRM make such comments without bothering to read what they are replying to, or at least understand it.
I have no issue with sensical DRM. I don’t mind regenerating install limits, I don’t mind the majority of Steam’s DRM system which mostly amounts to ‘DRM at Installation’ and not ‘DRM at breathing’. What I do mind is DRM that destroys the playability of games and ruins it for everyone except for those who pirate. The truth is that DRM causes a rise in piracy. The only thing DRM stops is used game sales, which is probably its real purpose.
The only part of your statement that is realistic are the words “at a certain level”. At a certain level of anything, it becomes poisonous. As I said, I know people in the industry, I myself am a programmer hoping to break into the industry starting at the Indy level, and first and for most, I am a realist, something many people seem not to be.
And I support the game companies, I don’t support the publishers that force in this anti-customer DRM. I am just sad that of all my 100s of game purchases the money doesn’t go to the developers but to the publishers that just try to screw us customers over more.
DRM, in this form, is NOT about protecting the product, it is about controlling the consumer.
09/10/2011 at 07:03 lurkalisk says:
@VelvetFistIronGlove
Sorry, this isn’t too much about the meat of your post, but, I recommend you never start an argument with “get over yourself”. I don’t know how long you’ve been alive, but if the number’s past a modest threshold, you should know how people react to remarks like that. Intelligent or not, it’s rare for people to take you seriously after reading something like that. I know I certainly don’t. Why? Your only possible intent is to antagonize. No decent argument should.
On topic: While any existing game should be considered on its own merit, the likelihood of a problematic release for stalker 2 as a result of its platform availability is high. I don’t believe this to be a certainty of any kind, this is just guesswork based on observation of trends.
09/10/2011 at 07:34 Grey_Ghost says:
My only problem with games made for both platforms is usually the console version gets the focus, with the PC port being an afterthought. It’s very easy not to expect much from them. Pre-ordering itself is a thing of the past for me. I do not buy any games until they’ve been well reviewed or demonstrated.
By the way, I don’t have anything against well done PC port’s whatsoever. For example… I thought Batman: Arkham Asylum was an exceptional port (worked great with mouse/keyboard!), and to a slightly lesser extent Dead Space 2.
Honestly, my largest problem (more of a giant annoyance really) with PC ports are the jackasses who inevitably post “you need to play it with a gamepad” as the answer to all human interface issues.
10/10/2011 at 14:14 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
@lurkalisk Your point is well taken. When making that post I re-read it several times, deleted that line, then ultimately put it back in. I still think it’s an appropriate reaction to the stupid sentiment “if it’s on consoles it can’t be any good on PCs” that the comment I was replying to espoused. The only better response is silence, but I’ve seen that same thought expressed so often on RPS that I wanted to say something this time.
08/10/2011 at 09:05 Eukatheude says:
What a shame.
08/10/2011 at 09:08 Meat Circus says:
What a shame.
08/10/2011 at 09:08 The Army of None says:
What a shame.
08/10/2011 at 09:11 Wildcard says:
Shame a what.
08/10/2011 at 09:12 Meat Circus says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc6PommZKWQ
08/10/2011 at 09:12 bear912 says:
Wot a shames!
08/10/2011 at 09:15 mundox says:
Water Shane.
08/10/2011 at 09:16 Eukatheude says:
Shat a whame.
08/10/2011 at 09:19 Icarus says:
Shit a whale.
08/10/2011 at 09:25 Dreamhacker says:
What a meme.
08/10/2011 at 09:46 neolith says:
What’s her name?
08/10/2011 at 09:57 JiminyJickers says:
I didn’t ask for this?
08/10/2011 at 10:21 Dozer says:
>analyse Stalker 2
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
How about a nice game of Peggle Extreme?
08/10/2011 at 10:23 MaxNormal says:
wait a sec …
permanent internet connection just is not going to work with mods. This is a developer that has pretty much thrived due to the interest and endless tweaking that modders have brought to the game. There is no way this is a good idea, and there is no way I’m gonna buy it – or pirate it for that matter when they do the suicide by DRM trick. Idiots.
08/10/2011 at 10:36 royaltyinexile says:
to get this back OT…
WATER SHAME.
(flashback to school swimming lessons)
08/10/2011 at 11:00 RegisteredUser says:
What a shame.
08/10/2011 at 11:49 Syra says:
What’s my name?
08/10/2011 at 12:32 Alexander Norris says:
Oh my God, JC! A bomb!
08/10/2011 at 12:48 Nick says:
get out of here, stalker.
08/10/2011 at 12:52 Joshua says:
How pointlessly tragic.
08/10/2011 at 12:55 westyfield says:
I said come in, don’t stand there!
08/10/2011 at 13:01 apocraphyn says:
A bomb!
08/10/2011 at 15:47 Nic Clapper says:
Such a shame! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbZ9uCQW1Hk&feature=fvst
08/10/2011 at 18:49 alundra says:
Shameful Display!
08/10/2011 at 19:30 eclipse mattaru says:
Stick with the prod. Prod with the prod. Just in case, we’re the police.
08/10/2011 at 22:27 Johnny Lizard says:
Get the hell out of here, Denton.
08/10/2011 at 23:48 DigitalSignalX says:
I drink my spill.
10/10/2011 at 15:00 Groove says:
What a shame.
08/10/2011 at 09:06 Serge says:
I wonder if the protection system will be as broken as STALKER itself permanently banning legit customers and instead allowing pirates to play.
08/10/2011 at 10:57 simoroth says:
Indeed. One of the reasons I picked up COP for £5 instead of £24.99 was that I waited a whole year for them to patch most of the game breaking bugs.
The game will just be made more unstable by any DRM system hashed in.
08/10/2011 at 13:55 enobayram says:
When will they stop thinking pirates will switch to legit when they’re forced to. They’ll just switch to other games, just like the legit gamers.
08/10/2011 at 16:34 Urthman says:
Exactly. I buy all my games and I’ve still got a crazy backlog of things to play. I can’t imagine being one of those pirates who downloads every game just because he can.
“Can’t pirate Stalker 2? Gee should I buy it? Or play one of the 3000 other games on my RAID?”
08/10/2011 at 19:02 Mistabashi says:
“Indeed. One of the reasons I picked up COP for £5 instead of £24.99 was that I waited a whole year for them to patch most of the game breaking bugs.”
That wasn’t very sensible, since CoP was already patched-up to the final (1.6.02) version when it was released world-wide.
08/10/2011 at 09:07 Wooly Wugga Wugga says:
Pity. I was looking foward to this. Another legitimate sale lost.
08/10/2011 at 09:32 Westcreek says:
Indeed, this is becoming an alarming trend. I’m also putting my foot down and not getting single-player games that require online access, my internet simply isn’t reliable enough to deal with this.
08/10/2011 at 09:49 MrKay says:
Ay, too bad. I was looking forward to this title. Luckily I’m sure there’ll be other titles that’ll to spend my money on without being punished for it.
08/10/2011 at 09:58 JiminyJickers says:
Same here, I won’t give someone money to treat me like a criminal.
08/10/2011 at 11:07 dadioflex says:
They’ve lost my money. I bought the previous three games at launch. Screw’em.
08/10/2011 at 14:41 Kismet says:
Same. Loved the franchise and I generally don’t enjoy too much single-player FPSs.
Looks like I’ll skip this one, or pick it when it will cost less than a pint of beer or so.
09/10/2011 at 09:59 P7uen says:
Me too. I’ll give you my money a 4th time if you treat me like the good customer I am.
08/10/2011 at 09:07 sueyed says:
S.T.A.L.K.E.R has a massive cult following the large majority of which started out with pirated versions of the game.
You’re fighting yourself.
08/10/2011 at 12:52 Jumwa says:
Funnily enough, thinking back on it, that applies to me.
A friend sent me a copy of the game when I was broke and suffering health problems that lost me my scholarships. I couldn’t afford crap at the time, but my friend thought I’d like the game. He was darn right.
I bought the game legitimately as one of my first legit game purchase after I got my finances in some semblance of order, and bought the next two games at launch. In fact, I bought two copies (one digital, one hard) of the first two games in the series.
This one? Will never buy it as is. My internet connection is terribly unreliable, so aside from detesting being treated like a criminal, it’s just not an option for me.
08/10/2011 at 13:06 dryg says:
Pirated SoC at first. Bought every STALKER at retail and then again on Steam. Also a lot of overpriced merch from their store.
If this is legit I won’t buy a GSC game again.
08/10/2011 at 14:30 aerozol says:
Pirated it, didn’t like it, didn’t buy it. Played a few hours.
The friends I gave it to though… There’s at least three paying customers/ fans out there because of that one dl’ed copy. I don’t want to pretend that’s a super argument for piracy, but an interesting little tale anyway ( :
08/10/2011 at 17:53 Amun says:
This applies to me as well. I pirated SoC to see what it was like and fell in love with the game. I didn’t have any money to spend on gaming at the time, so I put it on the “must buy” list. I got a job last month and bought CoP as soon as I got my first paycheck. I’m looking forward to buying clear sky and SoC, and I was excited about Stalker 2, but now not so much.
08/10/2011 at 09:07 hjarg says:
Nothing spreads better then a stupid idea, it seems.
No, really. Ukraine doesn’t have some kind of special April Fools day today?
08/10/2011 at 17:49 codename_bloodfist says:
Now that you mention it, it is the Lawyer’s Day in Ukraine today (or so said Wikipedia).
08/10/2011 at 09:07 FCA says:
What a shame….
Any connection problem (their side or my side), and the game goes down. And forget about playing the game 4 years after release, which is precisely what I’m doing with their first offering.
Not to mention all the mods, which really made a difference for my perception ofthe Stalker series.
08/10/2011 at 09:07 skyturnedred says:
So… fans modding/fixing the game will be impossible now?
08/10/2011 at 09:08 Wildcard says:
At least there’s always mods for the other stalker games
08/10/2011 at 09:08 The Army of None says:
Noooo… The first STALKER game I won’t be buying :(
08/10/2011 at 10:58 MadTinkerer says:
Yep. That’s pretty much all I have to say on the matter as well.
The UbiRot is spreading…
08/10/2011 at 11:48 Capt. Eduardo del Mango says:
Yep. I’ve bought the three STALKER games, and GSC have guaranteed that they won’t be getting my money this time.
08/10/2011 at 16:18 OJ287 says:
I’ve also bought all 3 at full price and persuaded friends and family to buy them. I downloaded dozens of mods and played hundreds of hours but there’s not a shadow of a chance I will buy STALKER 2 as it stands.
08/10/2011 at 09:10 Dreamhacker says:
“Text information, code and quests will be loaded through that connection.”
As a software developer, let me go on record to say that most of the time and unless you can solve it in another way (ie local storage) this is a Bad Idea(TM).
08/10/2011 at 09:12 Nemrod says:
+ 1google times agreed
08/10/2011 at 11:16 MrNice says:
Local storage would defeat the purpose of the anti piracy then again they did say download the data.
08/10/2011 at 09:10 archcorenth says:
they were a huge unexpected success, why do they think piracy is hurting them?
08/10/2011 at 15:20 Javier-de-Ass says:
because this guy counted the amount of times people have connected or downloaded the torrent files of their game around the internet and then calculated what amount of money that would equal if those were sales of the game instead. it’s the kind of thing management do to kill time during downtime while the team is building a game.
08/10/2011 at 09:11 Nemrod says:
NoooooooooooOOooOOooOOOOooooOOO!
I remember pirating the first game 2 weeks before launch and then buying that fancy metal box edition on launch day… and then evry game of the series on pre-order.
WHY U DO THAT TO ME? WHY?
08/10/2011 at 09:12 StingingVelvet says:
I will not support this kind of thing ever. I will not pirate it either, but I will tell you I would feel no guilt in doing so. Disrespect me, I disrespect you.
08/10/2011 at 09:13 jti says:
Those idiots! Their attempts at fighting piracy just made sure I won’t buy their games! I am not one of those people who go back with their words when the games come out, I just seriously won’t buy a game with this sort of DRM on it. No chance, no matter how good the game is.
The thing is, there’ll probably be a pirated version of it around very soon after it coming out and if the game is very good…… You see what I mean.
This is so sad.
08/10/2011 at 09:14 Mirqy says:
I think it may be time to ditch my blacklist of big devs and publishers to avoid because of ridiculous anti piracy measures – it’s getting too long. I’ll make a whitelist of those who I won’t be ignoring instead.
08/10/2011 at 09:16 Kollega says:
As an impartial observer (never cared much for STALKER, so wouldn’t have bought it either way), the only justification i can see here is the idiotically high rate of piracy in Russia and other post-Soviet countries. But, seeing how our internet connections aren’t the most stable either, that may well backfire in a major way.
08/10/2011 at 09:17 Shinan says:
What a shame :(
Though on the other hand I still haven’t finished Pripyat, so maybe they’ll remove this restriction before I’m able to get it.
And on an unrelated note, whatever happened to that TV-series they were going to make about STALKER?
08/10/2011 at 09:19 Sepulchrave76 says:
Let’s hope GSC have a change of heart about this
08/10/2011 at 09:20 rustybroomhandle says:
You youngsters have it so easy with your always-on DRM. Why I remember back in the day when I was your age, I must have lost 10% of my eyesight from having to calibrate my Lenslok so I could go space-pirating in Elite.
Good times, good times.
08/10/2011 at 09:48 GreatUncleBaal says:
Lenslok… (shudder). I remember getting so indignant about that bloody piece of plastic when the game I owned refused to let me in – it was like it was accusing me of a crime I hadn’t committed.
08/10/2011 at 12:58 westyfield says:
I just looked up Lenslok. Holy shit, I thought always-on was a pain in the arse.
09/10/2011 at 13:12 dogsolitude_uk says:
Lenslok! God that brings back memories! I used to spend ages just trying to get the ‘OK’ lined up on this old, goldfish-bowl black-and-white portable TV in my bedroom…
08/10/2011 at 09:21 inertia says:
I MAD
08/10/2011 at 09:27 hello_mr.Trout says:
*pain cry*
08/10/2011 at 09:29 Offa says:
In principle I’m fine with games requiring permanent Internet connection, but GSC has a track record of technical incompetence. I predict they won’t be able to make it work properly and will drop the requirement shortly after launch.
08/10/2011 at 09:31 CaspianRoach says:
This is weird coming from ukranian developer, since not much of rus/ukr playerbase has a stable good internet connection.
08/10/2011 at 09:59 bear912 says:
At this point, my hunch is that something got a bit muddled in translation or along the grape vine. A quick application of Google Translate yielded surprisingly little mention of piracy or copy-protection in the comments of the article in question. Granted, it’s Google Translate I was using, so there’s quite a bit of room for error there, but given Gawker’s click-baiting tendencies, I wouldn’t be too surprised if they jumped at a controversial headline without cross-checking their findings very thoroughly.
08/10/2011 at 10:06 Moni says:
On the other hand, isn’t there an insane level of piracy in Russia?
08/10/2011 at 10:45 CaspianRoach says:
I checked the article and it indeed is saying about the permanent internet connection. They want to “create a game which after trying pirated version the player will want to buy licensed one”. Some part of the game will be kept server-side and will be downloaded as you move through the game.
(- Защита от пиратского копирования? Часть контента будет находится на сервере и скачивается по мере прохождения игры. Нужен постоянный доступ к интернету. Будет докачиваться текстовая информация, максимум код и игра. Пиратство больно по нам бьет, мы боремся с ним, но в меру. Если человек не может купить лицензионную версию, то нам выгодно, чтобы он купил пиратку, а затем захотел купить лицензию. В Украине есть разные продукты, которые человеку нравятся на столько, что он покупает лицензию принципиально. Мы хотим создать именно такой продукт.)
And yeah, piracy here is massive, pirated copies sell for 3-4$ USD in lots of shady stores and nobody really cares.
08/10/2011 at 23:27 Muzman says:
This is interesting. I wouldn’t have thought the internet would be good enough there for enough people to do online DRM as it is generally understood (and before anyone says anything, I don’t think Australian internet is good enough either. Indeed I wonder if there’s 20 places in the world where it is)
So this is kinda halfway between DRM and shareware in a weird way.
09/10/2011 at 07:38 bear912 says:
Thanks for checking that out. I don’t speak Russian, as you can obviously tell by my use of Google translate, but I’m glad someone checked out the facts, even if they are disappointing. I hope perhaps they will change their minds (or convince THQ to change their minds?)…
08/10/2011 at 09:31 absolofdoom says:
This is some of the most depressing news I’ve ever received.
08/10/2011 at 09:33 Persus-9 says:
This is bad news and I won’t be buying it as long as it has this level of DRM. However to my mind it’s just like them notifying us that there will be a huge bug in the game at launch and in response we should wait until it’s patched out. I general wait for games to be patched a few times before buying them anyway so in some ways I feel like this doesn’t affect me at all. I’ll just wait until they produce a version that isn’t broken in this way and then buy it in a sale. Same old, same old.
08/10/2011 at 09:33 tanith says:
Oh Sergey, you son of a bitch…
Another game I can cross off my list. Well, I was already wary when it was announced that it’s going to be released for consoles.
At least I can look forward to X Rebirth and PRAY that they don’t pull a stunt like that because it’s also the last PC exclusive title I’m interested in right now.
08/10/2011 at 09:35 sparna says:
I don’t pirate. I have 250+ games in my Steam library. I was going to buy this. I will now pirate it. Simple.
I seriously do not understand how people can be this thick though. HOW do they not see that this will hurt them more than help? Especially with a “cult” fanbase like STALKERs.
08/10/2011 at 09:41 Jim Rossignol says:
“Simple.”
It would actually be simpler, and 100% less of a dick move, to not play it at all.
08/10/2011 at 09:43 coldvvvave says:
People who go apeshit over news like this are irrelevant vocal minority. Simple.
08/10/2011 at 09:55 Metonymy says:
And to be fair, fans of this game are a minority as well.
As someone who hasn’t purchased a video game since 16-bit consoles, I can safely say that better DRM doesn’t affect me in any way, it just means I might not be playing it at all. Since it’s not negatively affecting pirates, or somehow ‘winning’ our nonexistent money, it just harms buyers.
08/10/2011 at 10:01 JiminyJickers says:
Yeah dude, pirating just confirms to them that they did the right thing. They can’t seem to get it that DRM affects the legitimate customer far more.
The best thing to to is let them know you are not going to buy or play their game and then following through with that decision. There are too many good games out there to have to put up with such nonsense.
08/10/2011 at 10:14 Nemrod says:
I’d say that in fact pirating is the ONLY message you can send them. You DO love the game, but you don’t want to be tied to some shitty code streaming technology.
If you’d not buy it then you leave the customer zone, which is the one they’re trying to reach. If they don’t manage to get their customer zone with their product then they will change their ways… hopefully.
Then of course for a fan it is unimaginable not to play another Stalker release, so pirating IS the only message we fans can send.
08/10/2011 at 10:26 Emeraude says:
I’m amazed that you have problem with this, but still accept STEAM.
Not saying I cannot understand, but it really surprises me every time.
08/10/2011 at 10:41 Wisq says:
Or, you know … you could suck it up, decide not to play the game, and send them an email to that effect. “I’m a die-hard fan who will not be playing your latest game until the DRM is gone” carries a lot more weight than either -1 sale or +1 to the number of pirates does.
08/10/2011 at 10:49 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
“I’d say that in fact pirating is the ONLY message you can send them. You DO love the game, but you don’t want to be tied to some shitty code streaming technology.”
That’s not the message they see. There’s already a huge amount of piracy of the game (as for basically any game). They see piracy, they think the answer is DRM. If you add to the piracy, their answer is going to be more DRM.
On the other hand, if piracy rates remain much the same but sales go down after the introduction of DRM, that’s going to send a clearer message: pirates were unaffected, customers were lost. But of course, neither are as clear as actually telling GSC what you think of this.
“I’m amazed that you have problem with this, but still accept STEAM.”
For me, my comment elsewhere contains my answer to this: “I will continue to buy games from publishers with more respect for the player, and more consideration for the circumstances of how and where they want to play it.”
With Steam, Valve do this, despite the DRM. They add features to Steam far beyond DRM that can enhance the overall experience: download your games anytime. Install them anywhere. Chat with friends from within any game, over text or voice (even in games you didn’t buy from Steam). Access your savegames from anywhere. And they continue to show consideration for circumstances: offline mode, backups of games (if your internet connection is slow, DVD-Rs are cheap after that first download).
Steam’s DRM is still bad, and I don’t much care for it. But for me, the overall benefits of Steam outweigh my dislike of their activate-on-launch (or first launch, with offline mode) DRM.
In contrast, neither the always-on DRM that Ubisoft pushes, nor the different system described here offer any benefits for the paying customer: it’s just bad.
08/10/2011 at 11:03 StingingVelvet says:
Though I doubt I will ever pirate a new game I understand the motivation here. The only reason to buy games when they’re free all across the internet is to support the developers, to send a message of “more please” and support. When a publisher or developer disrespects the consumer, of COURSE the consumer cares less about supporting them.
Taken to extremes we have people who say “no quicksave? Console port? I’ll just torrent it,” and that sucks. This kind of DRM though? I think there’s a legitimate argument to be made that it crosses a line where I don’t want to give you money anymore and don’t care about playing your game anyway. Like Gabe always talks about, when the pirated copy is better than the purchased one a lot of people are going to take the better version.
08/10/2011 at 11:10 MadTinkerer says:
Emeraude, I have 625 games on Steam, though it’s actually around 800+ if you count all of the classic game compilations (Mega Drive Classics, etc.). I already have literally thousands of physical copies of other games. It would be unmanageable to have those 800+ discs, cartridges, and systems (Mega Drive, Atari 2600, etc.) physically in my apartment on top of the rest of my collection.
Steam’s “DRM” is less of a hassle than physical copies, and comes with tons of nice features. THAT is why I “accept” Steam and several other download services while drawing the line at UbiDRM, etc.
08/10/2011 at 11:18 Emeraude says:
@MadTinkerer:
I always tend to forget that STEAM is also – foremost- a d2d platform.
For the record, though I won’t use their service, I have nothing against Valve, I think they’re a good thing for the gaming community, as long as they only remain an option.
My beef is actually with STEAM used by publishers as an online activation DRM for boxed games.
08/10/2011 at 11:24 mpk says:
@ StingingVelvet
The only reason to buy games when they’re free all across the internet is to support the developers,
Not wanting to commit an act of theft isn’t a reason?
08/10/2011 at 11:29 Emeraude says:
Copyright infringement, not theft.
Some people seem to believe it is nitpicking, I tend to find correct framing is necessary for the debate to be fruitful.
08/10/2011 at 11:38 Asuron says:
@JiminyJickers
They’ll just contribute it to piracy either way.
People high up in these companies have been convinced piracy is a problem to their profits, regardless of the truth and they’ll put these things in to control people as much as possible.
So honestly why not pirate? They’ll just attribute low sales to piracy anyway, so what more damage can possibly be done by actually pirating it.
08/10/2011 at 11:54 Chris D says:
@Emeraude
If we’re concerned about correct terminology then I don’t think calling itcopyright infringement should be allowed either. That has too many connotations of “I’m just skipping some red tape” or “It’s only technically wrong.” That lets people off the hook too easily.
Piracy is more akin to sneaking into a theatre without paying, eating a meal and then refusing to split the bill or refusing to tip someone who makes their living that way. Argue it’s not technically theft if you want, but it’s still very definitely a dick move.
08/10/2011 at 11:59 jalf says:
Except that legally speaking, it is copyright infringement, and none of those other things. So calling it copyright infringement has the advantage that it’s factually correct.
I know not everyone considers these fancy “facts” to count for much, but it may be worth pointing out at least.
08/10/2011 at 12:11 Chris D says:
@Jalf
Legally speaking, they’re both equally illegal so saying it’s copyright infringement not theft is no justification, but we both know the implied point behind it is almost always “It’s only copyright infringement so it’s not like I’m actually doing anything wrong” and this just isn’t true.
08/10/2011 at 12:30 Emeraude says:
@Chris D
Following your logic to it’s extreme one would argue that piracy should be described as murder. They’re both equally crimes after all.
Copyright infringement is not theft. It obeys a different set of laws, and risks altogether different punishments. It has vastly different socio-economical consequences – and technical necessities.
As such, it should discussed at the kind of crime it is. Not the one people misunderstand it to be.
08/10/2011 at 12:40 Chris D says:
@Emeraude
That’s not my logic. Really I have nothing much to say about the legal status of piracy, I only brought it up at all in response to Jalf.
What I am objecting to is the sleight-of-hand that almost always accompanies this type of dicussion which implies piracy does not equal theft therefore does not equal wrong. What it’s legal status should be is a matter for legislators. Ethically it’s still a dick move*
*Exceptions if, as a commenter last week, you live in a third world company and genuinely have no chance of being able to afford games thanks to the exchange rate. Does not apply if you just want to spend the money on a new set of trainers instead.
I have some sympathy for the piracy as tech-demo argument provided that’s genuinely what you’re doing and not just a flimsy excuse. Playing the whole game then deciding it wasn’t that good so you won’t pay doesn’t count.
Everyone else who pirates=dicks.
Not allowing piracy as protest either. If you want to protest then don’t buy it and write a letter or something if you feel strongly enough. Piracy just say “I still wanted to play it, I just didn’t want to pay for it.”
08/10/2011 at 12:52 Emeraude says:
“What I am objecting to is the sleight-of-hand that almost always accompanies this type of discussion which implies piracy does not equal theft therefore does not equal wrong. ”
And what I am objecting to is the fact that the constant linking of piracy to theft – with its clear agenda of vilifying the criminal, is detrimental to the discussion because it muddles it.
It is a crime. Said crime isn’t theft.
Understanding that is important if we want to address the problem correctly. Not to mention it reveals, when looked up closer, weird paradoxes about laws that were created to protect creators from publishers, and are now used to protect publishers from the public.
08/10/2011 at 12:59 Chris D says:
@Emeraude
Fair enough then. Looks like we’re talking at cross purposes which was my fault. I stand by what I said but it probably shouldn’t have been framed as a response to you. My apologies.
08/10/2011 at 13:04 Emeraude says:
@Chris D
While I do understand your concern, I think that way of dealing with it is harmful in the long run.
Too bad I couldn’t convince you of the validity of my point. Thank you for your civility.
08/10/2011 at 13:17 Chris D says:
@Emeraude
Actually I think your point about needing to frame the debate correctly is a valid one, which is why I backed off, so don’t feel bad about that. It’s just that you’re talking about the legal dimensions of the issue which is not something I feel I have very much to say about, I’m more interested in the ethical dimensions of it. But I did assume you were going somewhere with it that you weren’t, which I shouldn’t have done.
08/10/2011 at 13:41 Wisq says:
Inappropriate analogy. You’re taking up a seat a legitimate customer could use. On the internet, there are an infinite number of seats.
In this case, piracy would be watching a video of the movie, as taken from within the theatre. Which is already a form of piracy, so it’s a bit redundant. :)
Ditto. You’re sticking the other guy(s) with covering the cost of your meal. This is closer, since you could argue that piracy drives up the cost of games and therefore you’re costing your follow gamers more by not paying your share. But that’s a tenuous analogy based on an unproven argument, since you could just as easily argue that most companies would continue to charge the “industry average”, i.e. what they can get away with, even if piracy stopped tomorrow. Plus new-release console games and PC games tend to cost roughly the same, but console games don’t have much piracy to deal with.
In this case, piracy would be eating the leftovers that were going to be thrown away anyway. That’s about the best you can get before you get into “magical item duplication” territory, which completely throws a wrench in all forms of modern economics.
This is getting very close. Voluntary payment, where it’s a custom to pay, and a dick move to not pay.
Obviously, there are still some flaws here — for example, if we all stopped tipping, we’d have a lot of angry waiters and delivery guys, but they’d still get paid their base salary and theoretically make some sort of (angry) living. Whereas games companies would go out of business entirely.
Also, although there’s a customary amount, around here, tips are still technically a variable amount that you pay based on the perceived quality of service you’ve received. Applying this analogy implies that all games are sold on a “pay what you want” basis — ideal but not particularly realistic.
Finally, this is the analogy that actually undermines your whole argument against piracy. What prompts a $0 tip? The same thing that prompts otherwise legitimate customers to commit piracy: Extremely poor service. Especially when the poor service is announced to begin with, as with DRM.
…
Now, I’m not promoting piracy here. But I think that breaking down these analogies helps describe why piracy is a complex issue that can’t be boiled down into a black-and-white issue like both sides would want us to believe.
The truth is, some percentage of piracy is going to happen no matter what (very limited cash or very loose morals), some percentage based on what price you set for your game (lower = less), and some percentage can be attributed to how you treat your customers. And the sad reality is, “AAA” game prices have been going up and customer satisfaction has been going down — and at least some of that is due to piracy, which means it’s something of a vicious cycle.
I’m hoping it’s the brave indie companies who are going to show us the way, by giving us titles focused more on gameplay and less on big-budget cutscenes, more on customer satisfaction and less on protection schemes. More pay-what-you-want, less $60 for a few hours of singleplayer and multiplayer that will last a few months at most.
Heck, maybe the tipping thing is a possibility here. You pay a certain base cost for the game. You play through it, and once you finish, or at any point (since not all games are the “play to the end” sort), you pay extra as a tip. There would be a customary amount expected — maybe the price of the game, making it 50-50. Your friends can see what you’ve paid, so there’s social pressure to pay it, and you can see the average of what people have paid, so it also functions as an aggregate user satisfaction metric. Maybe if you pay little or nothing, they ask you why — I wonder if having to say “because I don’t have to” or “because I’m a cheap bastard” would turn more no-tips into tips. And maybe your game service (Steam etc.) limits the number of untipped games you can be playing at a time, meaning you can’t just put the decision off indefinitely.
… No, it would never really work, I don’t think. (Especially gifts — that would get messy fast.) But it’s a fun idea.
08/10/2011 at 14:00 Jimbo says:
The first two analogies work fine.
08/10/2011 at 15:52 Tyshalle says:
Can someone explain to me exactly how they’d have any fucking idea at all whether or not you pirate the game? Couldn’t you very easily “just send them an email” telling them you won’t be purchasing the game, and it will have the exact same effect as you pirating or not pirating it in addition to not buying it (the effect of course being, practically none)?
This is ultimately a question of morality: Either you do the “right” thing by only playing the game if you purchase it, or you do the “wrong” thing by being pissed off about their DRM to the point that you won’t give them your money for an inferior product, but you still want to play it, and so you pirate it.
One thing is for certain though, asserting that if you do pirate the game you’re “only confirming to them that they did the right thing” with their idiotic DRM is a slave mentality. “Oh, I did my master wrong by running away, so I deserved to get whipped!” That’s what’s truly idiotic. DRM is a stupid fucking idea, no matter how many people pirate your game.
Let’s be clear: If there is some magickal way for them to track every pirated copy (which seems absurd to me) of their game, then pirating their game when they implement this stupid DRM sends them a clear message: “You’re not hurting the pirates, dumbass. You’re only hurting your paying customers.” And hopefully their number of paying customers takes a hit after instituting this stupid DRM.
I’ve never pirated a videogame in my life, and there are numerous games I have flat out boycotted due to their DRM. I also am not saying that it is morally right (or wrong) to pirate games with insidious DRM. I’m simply saying, don’t paint this as something it’s not. Pirating games with shitty DRM does not in ANY WAY confirm to a company that their DRM is a great fucking idea.
‘Nuff said.
08/10/2011 at 16:05 TillEulenspiegel says:
World of Goo actually did this; the pirate version still checked in on their servers, for scoreboards or something.
They found 90% piracy. And you could run around screaming about that, because those pirates are bad naughty men and OMG lots. Or you could, as they did, enjoy the large success they had and keep porting the game to more platforms to get even more sales (and there’s a ton of piracy on iOS and Android, by the way).
The music industry grew up and accepted that convenient, DRM-free products are what customers want. The games industry is going to have to do the same.
09/10/2011 at 00:27 aerozol says:
“pirating just confirms to them that they did the right thing”
No, it confirms that it isn’t working. If their sales went down, and piracy went down, management would probably pat themselves on the back for doing the right thing. Pirating it and then not playing it would probably be a ‘moral’ way to do it, while getting a strong point across.
09/10/2011 at 02:15 Deano2099 says:
Yeah you guys are right, let’s all not pirate it.
I’m sure that if no-one pirates their game the publishers and developers won’t at all take that as an indication that the DRM actually worked, and I’m sure other developers won’t look at the success and start adopting similar processes.
Seriously, if you give a shit about gaming you owe it to yourself to pirate this game. Even if you also buy a legit copy. Or download it and then delete it right away and never play it. Because the last thing we want these people thinking is that this silly DRM actually helped reduce piracy.
08/10/2011 at 09:41 Jimbo says:
Haha. Good luck with that.
08/10/2011 at 09:43 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
This is unexpected, especially for STALKER. I adore all the STALKER games (Pripyat most), and STALKER 2 was pretty much a guaranteed purchase for me.
Until now. GSC, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face. You may hinder the pirates for a while—maybe a long while—but you’re spitting on all your customers at the same time. I will not buy STALKER 2 if this promised DRM is indeed in the product—not even in a massively discounted Steam sale a couple of years from now, not until and unless the DRM is patched out.
I will continue to buy games from publishers with more respect for the player, and more consideration for the circumstances of how and where they want to play it.
08/10/2011 at 12:29 Ringwraith says:
Hear hear.
I still refuse to buy Assassin’s Creed 2 over this same problem, even though I’ve seen a copy go for like £1.50, as it’s just simply unacceptable in my mind, and no amount of discounts is going to change that.
Well, let’s hope they backpedal real fast out of this one, otherwise they’re going to be digging their own grave.
08/10/2011 at 09:43 chokoladenudlen says:
Oh no.
They dun goofed up now :(
08/10/2011 at 09:44 Aemony says:
Well, that made my decision easy. I’ll ignore this until it hits the bargain bucket on Steam. What a shame.
08/10/2011 at 09:46 phenom_x8 says:
Less piracy and more than 90% decline on PC sales!
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-30-how-bad-is-pc-piracy-really-article
Thats whay you learn from Ubisoft, Sergey!
08/10/2011 at 09:48 neolith says:
Et tu, Brute?
08/10/2011 at 09:51 noom says:
I am seriously upset by this.
Had a nose around but can only find business/PR related email addresses for GSC. Don’t think sending anti-DRM pleas to those will do much good. Anybody find anything better?
Edit: Forums might be a better idea actually. Refusing to buy is all well and good, but it’s ten times better if you let them know precisely why you’re not doing so.
Thread here on the GSC forums regarding DRM. Might be worth throwing your two cents in.
08/10/2011 at 09:53 Arclight says:
… no one? Alright:
Get out of here STALKER!
08/10/2011 at 11:40 MD says:
:D
08/10/2011 at 09:56 caddyB says:
Buy it, throw the box somewhere in the room and play a pirated version if you want to play it that much. If you want to teach the devs a lesson, don’t buy it and don’t play it.
Easy.
08/10/2011 at 09:58 NathaI3 says:
You guys are like King Canute trying to stop the tide. This IS a trend that will continue in PC gaming, no matter how vocal the legitimate few are. This is one of the smarter DRMs I’ve heard about. For those worried about having an unstable or slow connection, text information and quests shouldn’t trouble your connection too badly. Depends on how much code they want to keep outside the local installation really.
I’m going to wait for more info on this (and the game itself) before making my mind up but I really don’t think outright condemnation of EVERY online-related DRM feature is the way to go. Pick your battles, guys.
08/10/2011 at 10:10 drewski says:
Sod that. If I can’t play it when my internet freaks out and spends half an hour offline for no reason other than that Australia has the telecommunications infrastructure of sub-Saharan Africa, I won’t buy it.
I choose my battles, sure. Always on DRM is the battle I choose. Every. Single. Time.
Playable offline or no sale. No exceptions.
08/10/2011 at 10:13 Thants says:
I’d rather try to stop the tide then be as defeatist as you. If always-online-DRM isn’t a battle worth picking I don’t know what is. There’s plenty of companies that don’t damage their products just to treat me like a criminal.
08/10/2011 at 10:14 AlwaysRight says:
Nathal3 is right, unfortunately.
In the future this will be the norm no matter how purple with anger you go now.
Edit: I am aware this is a massive oversimplification though.
…oh and not buying a game is not ‘sticking it to the man’. This is business, if it doesnt sell well on PC they will simply dissregard a PC release in the future.
08/10/2011 at 10:41 noom says:
Thants said it best I think. Rather than add anything I’ll just +1.
08/10/2011 at 13:36 V. Profane says:
Except who are all the console gamers that are going to buy STALKER? Good luck to them if they really think they can successfully compete against $100m ad campaigns and Hollywood production values.
08/10/2011 at 10:00 WastedJoker says:
All the crying over something that won’t matter much *facepalms*
08/10/2011 at 10:02 Walter Heisenberg says:
*reads your post*
*facepalms*
08/10/2011 at 11:43 Asuron says:
Didn’t AC2 have major issues with this?
What about those in Australia, whose internet services crap out all the time or other foreign countries where it isn’t stable.
What happens if someone manages to screw up the connection to the service just for kicks.
What then?
It does matter, thinking otherwise is nonsense
08/10/2011 at 10:00 Echo Black says:
I have the three STALKER titles on Steam but might just skip this. Vote with your wallet, they say. Also, I wouldn’t trust GSC on having a stable content stream backend, considering the coding “prowess” they’ve shown in the past. Expect a lot of bugs and headaches.
08/10/2011 at 10:00 Walter Heisenberg says:
N/T
08/10/2011 at 10:00 Walter Heisenberg says:
Day one every bit of data will be mined out of their servers by The Scene and once again pirates will have the better experience. Your move draconian fools!
08/10/2011 at 11:04 Pod42 says:
Exactly what they did with Assasins Creed, this method of sending data through only stopped the crackers for a day.
08/10/2011 at 16:13 meatshit says:
If you’re talking Assassin’s Creed 2, it was actually 1-2 months before a working crack that let you play the entire game came out, and even then it was temperamental and difficult to use.
08/10/2011 at 19:33 chackosan says:
I don’t know about ‘temperamental and difficult to use’. I got a single cracked executable to replace the default launcher, and immediately I was able to play without having to connect to Ubisoft servers. Pretty painless overall.
08/10/2011 at 22:25 Starky says:
Yeah about 3-4 weeks after launch I was able to painlessly crack my legitimately purchased version for mobile gaming (if you can call a 4.5 Kg laptop “mobile”).
08/10/2011 at 10:01 DOs says:
So Sergey thinks piracy is hurting his games. It’s a niche game franchise already, and he thinks it’s financially valid to paint his game into a corner, making it exclusive to just those with perfect internet connections that never drop.
There’s a lot of people out there who can’t play multiplayer games because of bad connections, and have no way to do anything about it due to regional monopolies, and now they will have to deal with it with singleplayer, too?
Also, Jim. It may be a dick move to pirate the game, but if you are a dick to your customers you should expect nothing less back. I’ve been a loyal STALKER fan since game one, but if faced with having to choose between a future with DRM like this, and GSC and the franchise disappearing due to customer reactions to this, I would easily pick the latter.
08/10/2011 at 10:20 coldvvvave says:
5 millions boxes sold is niche, huh?
08/10/2011 at 10:24 Jimbo says:
Inventing sales figures doesn’t make them true.
08/10/2011 at 11:37 coldvvvave says:
Well, I didn’t invent that, guy who is being quoted in the post did, he is also a CEO of GSC so I don’t see any reason to be in disbelief.
08/10/2011 at 12:02 Emeraude says:
“he is also a CEO of GSC so I don’t see any reason to be in disbelief.”
Actually, that is reason enough to disbelieve. One could argue he might have a vested interest in manipulating the numbers.
Sad we lack a proper third party that could produce reliable data really. It would help tremendously with the debate.
08/10/2011 at 13:38 coldvvvave says:
It wasn’t some kind of official statement, just an answer to a comminity questions. So, ok, not five millions. Let it be threee. I still don’t see STALKER as a niche game just because it has hardcore modding community. It was widely advertised( remember E3 sarcophagus?) and it sold fine. How is it a niche game when it’s ‘niche’ is like everyone in Post-Soviet Union and a considerable number of people outside?
08/10/2011 at 14:16 Emeraude says:
Nothing against your original point (I do think Stalker is out of the niche crowd by this point), just pointing the problem I saw in the argument you presented to back it up; sorry if it read otherwise.
08/10/2011 at 22:28 Starky says:
0.5 (maybe even 1) million copies sold at a price over £20.
4 million copies sold at £2-3 in steam/other DD sales.
Is probably much, much closer to the truth.
08/10/2011 at 10:01 Emeraude says:
What is it with this industry’s desire to deny access to its audience/clients (the later more fitting their alleged desire to provide a “service” rather than a product) ?
08/10/2011 at 10:03 Robin says:
Ridiculous. Very bad move.
08/10/2011 at 10:04 Robin says:
edit: double because I thought my reply failed.
08/10/2011 at 10:06 NathaI3 says:
I just wrote a comment full of phrases like “fighting the tide” and “pick your battles” but it seems to have been lost in the nether regions of the interspace so I’ll summarize as I’m quite lazy:
This is a trend that will continue. Declaiming against every game that has online DRM will just make us look like Luddites who cannot accept change in the way our games are delivered. Picking our battles is the only way to make any ground against particularly tyrannical publishers (ie Ubisoft). STALKER is a series that has suffered massively from piracy, and from this statement this DRM does not seem particularly intrusive. So why the condemnation?
EDIT: oh, it wasn’t lost, just misplaced. never mind then
08/10/2011 at 10:14 Emeraude says:
We picked up our battle. For some the line that cannot be crossed to avoid war is: no online activation.
I don’t see why one trespasser should be allowed more leeway once this has been defined.
“DRM will just make us look like Luddites ”
I just love how Neoclassical economic propaganda has made being described a Luddite inherently bad, as if there was *no* value to resisting change. As with Luddites, it is not the technology we refuse, it is the underlying societal model it enforces (in the case tat hand hat the redefining of property) .
08/10/2011 at 10:19 Walter Heisenberg says:
It’s pretty much exactly the same as the UbiDRM and should be reacted to in the same way I don’t think we should care about saving face to look better to the mindless robots that chant “you’re afraid of change blah blah blah”
08/10/2011 at 10:34 DOs says:
It doesn’t matter if it’s a battle fought against massive Ubisoft or smaller GSC. The results are the same, and it’s easier to influence a small developer than a massive one.
Besides, you argue that STALKER “has suffered massively from piracy”, which just sounds like you parrot GSC statements. I’ve never seen any of this proven. I can just as easily argue that GSC make niche games that are very difficult to make a profit from, unless you manage your studio and development costs accordingly.
08/10/2011 at 11:08 StingingVelvet says:
I love people who say “there’s nothing we can do so just roll over!” They are the exact people who cause the “nothing we can do” in the first place.
I will not support singleplayer games going online completely. I just won’t. If it means I run out of games to play then fine, so be it. I have 20+ years of games I loved to replay as well as literally hundreds of good games I never got around to playing. There will also be indies and small publishers who cater to me and my ilk, and chances are the future online games from big publishers will not be games I want to play anyway.
I will not roll over.
09/10/2011 at 00:33 aerozol says:
“STALKER is a series that has suffered massively from piracy”
…NO. I can’t impress that harshly enough. NO IT HASN’T. You can pull as many ‘this many were pirated so this much money was ‘lost” figures as you want, and you’ll still be on the stupidly retarded side of wrong.
09/10/2011 at 01:10 MD says:
Man, of all the sides of wrong you can be on, that one’s the worst.
08/10/2011 at 10:07 Moni says:
I’ve been thinking that games streaming code and data will be the way forward for copy protection. From a technical standpoint, it’s fairly cheap to do.
I’m really interested to see how this works out and if there really will be a cracked version out on Day One.
08/10/2011 at 11:09 StingingVelvet says:
Not on day one probably, but it will come. The Ubisoft DRM does the same thing, it streams quest triggers and such. Pirates figured it out in about a month the first time, then much quicker every time after.
08/10/2011 at 11:44 Hanban says:
Some fellow with Russian reading skills commented that they had said basically that you would be able to pirate the game, but there would be content later in the game that could only be accessed from the always online component. Thus you would be able to pirate the first part of the game and then if it whet your appetite you would feel inclined to buy it to play the rest.
I honestly think that is okay. Or at least honest. Blizzard just said that their always online service was to improve the provided service for customers, which feels like a really dishonest statement. Here they are at least being honest about what they are doing which to me counts for something at least.
08/10/2011 at 10:08 drewski says:
Fine, don’t have my money then.
08/10/2011 at 10:15 Vexing Vision says:
“Within reason” = “permanent internet connection”… I really, really dislike this world. Could our local ISPs please catch up with what game developers now consider “within reason”?
08/10/2011 at 10:15 Gunrun says:
You know this is probably just for the Eastern European version right? RU releases of games even now still require an always on internet connection, and have different copy protection from the rest of the worlds versions.
08/10/2011 at 10:15 Asskicker says:
Hahaha. Very funny GSC!
Now tell us what you are reallig doing
08/10/2011 at 10:23 phenom_x8 says:
Just to add more pain in our @$$
http://kotaku.com/5847761/why-was-the-pc-launch-of-rage-such-a-cluster
quote :
“We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games,” Carmack added. “That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version.”
SAD! Carmack never expect us to be id fans anymore and we still try to defends RAGE by fixing it all this time and give it a 2nd chance (your WiT included, Alec!)
08/10/2011 at 10:45 Dozer says:
Get off. Alec’s WiT was not following any hidden agenda to ‘defend RAGE’ or support iD or Carmack. Alec’s WiT reflects his independent take on the game. AAA titles don’t need defending by anyone – besides, RPS made it very clear that RAGE is a buggy mess at launch.
08/10/2011 at 11:42 phenom_x8 says:
@dozer
Sorry, never accused alec about hidden agenda behind his WiT (I’m sure its never exist) .
But as much as I read, despite many technical flaws it contains, Alex WiT’s indicating that these games are still worth of our money. In contradiction, Carmack itself never expecting us to be their main supporter anymore and relied solely towards console sales (despite a few console reviewer,like ars or joystiq, accused it has repetitive gameplay mechanic meanwhile some PC site impression ,like Pc Gamer, HardOcp, bittech or Toms Hardware towards it merely positive ).
Personally, I never blamed Carmack or feel enrage for his statement (like he was worried about it before). It just make me sad, really sad when someone just unable to see whose their real supporter is all this time (their Pc fans in this case) and blinded by some hype around it !
08/10/2011 at 14:35 paterah says:
“Real supporters” doesn’t matter. The game is still gonna sell better on consoles even if it was reviewed better on PC. Just goes to show the power of console gaming. And Carmack needs that, he has been working over 4 years on the game.
08/10/2011 at 22:34 Starky says:
Maybe if those 250-300k “real supporters” all paid say… £500 each for the game, Carmack (and his bosses) might focus more on PC, as much as it sucks the flat reality is PC versions of AAA games require the most platforms specific work, testing, debugging and time (by a large chunk), for the least pay-off (maybe 15-20% of overall income, low as 10% for some titles).
09/10/2011 at 04:17 phenom_x8 says:
@patera
Then who was give him money so that Carmack (and the rest of Id’s crew) can live a life all this time (before acquisition)? Carmack was also being able to set up its own company before Id was bought by Zenimax (I wonder, do the money drop from the sky for itself)!
Remember, they (publisher/developer) work hard for their game, but we also work hard to buy their game (and give them a live) so we deserve publisher/developer that cares more about us than its resentments
(quoting PC Gamer.com)
08/10/2011 at 10:24 herschel says:
Gentlemen, they will step back from this anyways.
08/10/2011 at 10:26 Zulthar says:
What the hell? I’m pretty sure most of the people who bought a game in the STALKER series pirated it at least once.
This and the fact that they’ve announced it for consoles makes me worried.
09/10/2011 at 06:08 Bonedwarf says:
I pirated the first one, purely to see if it worked okay on my system. It didn’t. It ran like absolute garbage, so I dumped it.
When I got a new computer, first think I did was buy Clear Skies. A game which was so unstable I gave up.
Then I picked up the first Stalker finally, when on sale after reading about the various mods on here. Then I picked up COP at Christmas I think it was.
So GSC have had sales of all 3 games to me.
And it ends now. Though the argument further up about pirating the game was oddly convincing, but I can’t be arsed. I’ve still got all three games and lots to go in them. I don’t NEED Stalker 2 anyway. And clearly GSC don’t want my money, so that works out all round.
And I’m a console gamer too. I love my Xbox… But Stalker? On a console? It’s either going to stick to its principles and sell about 3 copies to the mainstream console morons, or it’ll compromise everything that made the first 3 great and not be a STALKER game anyway, and no sad loss.
Either way it’s a sad ridiculous day, but like several have said, if this is the wave of the future, then fine, I just don’t buy new PC games anymore. I’ll support the indie guys, and play the quite gargantuan backlog of games I have sitting here. (200+ in Steam alone)
08/10/2011 at 10:34 Teronfel says:
Whatever,i’ll buy the game and pretend it’s an MMO.
So when you play WOW or BF and you always need to be online it’s not a problem?
My only concern is this,will we still be able to use mods?
08/10/2011 at 10:37 Emeraude says:
Logical fallacy.
MMOs, by their very nature, demand that connectivity to exist to provide the experience they promise.
I don’t see why we should accept it of any other game where it is not needed.
08/10/2011 at 10:48 Teronfel says:
We’ll have to accept it eventually. Diablo III will also use always online drm,i don’t see many people complain about it.
08/10/2011 at 10:55 Emeraude says:
You don’t see many people complaining about Diablo 3′s DRM ?
Where the hell have you been ? I need to schedule next wintering there.
And we’ll only have to accept it we cannot grow enough of a movement against it. Maybe we will, but I’d rather know I tried.
08/10/2011 at 11:04 RegisteredUser says:
You are the reason why we can’t have playable things.
08/10/2011 at 11:29 Stevostin says:
Logical fallacy ? Only if you assume there is no service provided in Stalker 2 that requires internet connection apart from copy protection. Which we don’t know.
08/10/2011 at 11:31 Emeraude says:
“i’ll buy the game and pretend it’s an MMO.”
The original statement I addressed assumed no necessity. I treated it as such.
08/10/2011 at 12:59 Psychopomp says:
“We’ll have to accept it eventually.”
Yes, when we aren’t prone to having internet go down for exactly zero reasons. When reliable internet access is as ubiquitous as a good TV signal.
This time is also known as “not fucking now.”
08/10/2011 at 10:38 BurningPet says:
This will do nothing but lose sales and enable bragging rights for pirates.
they will be all over the challenge. and they will succeed. maybe not in the first day, maybe not in the first week, but by the end of month since launch some cracker gonna get lots of thumbs up and praise for mining every single line of code from their server and enabling the pirates a better product than legit buyers, one that works offline, every time, all the time.
08/10/2011 at 10:40 vogre says:
The original article says something along the lines of:
08/10/2011 at 10:49 Toshley says:
Guess I won’t be buying STALKER 2. What a shame.
08/10/2011 at 10:57 Corrupt_Tiki says:
Just moved to the ‘Will not buy’ catergory, sorry guys, I loved SoC, but enough is enough, I am tired of being treated like a fucking criminal. I will not buy your game, I will not even pirate it. sorry.
On the plus side, this frees up some cash and time for other great games I suppose.
09/10/2011 at 06:13 Bonedwarf says:
Basically GSC have said “Hey, Indie Devs, which of you would like the money we’re not going to get now for treating our customers like criminals?”
So nice of GSC to think of those indie devs.
08/10/2011 at 10:57 plavski says:
Damn, and I was looking forward to this too. Oh well.
08/10/2011 at 11:04 RegisteredUser says:
What I want to write: “What these stupid turds don’t realize is that..”
But that’s a bit rude.
So I will say: What these shortsighted people don’t realize is that thanks to people who added content, new textures, etc pp to their game(talking SoC now), because it was open enough to do so, it kept selling, it kept getting bigger as a cult tip and it kept getting improved by the community bugfix and textures/content wise.
Going the polar opposite and closing the thing down with DRM etc is just going to hurt themselves.
I find this a pretty retarded move, as do most people.
08/10/2011 at 11:10 pusheax says:
Stalker 1 was in production for very long time.
Now they decided to go for consoles, make server. It costs time and money. I hope they have enough to complete this project.
08/10/2011 at 11:15 Nameless1 says:
Ahahah fuck them, I’m not going to buy it.
08/10/2011 at 11:27 Stevostin says:
I would not rush in to any conclusion based on an out of context quote. I suspect that actually there’s a whole philoshophy about hosting evolutive content online. I say that because that’s something I’d love to see in a Stalker game. Launching the game, be in the zone, and live a new day in the zone. That’s what you expect in a way from a MMO, except that I am not asking for the multiplayer part. Just a kind of constant DLC feeding, based on the calendar, miss it and it won’t come back. A real second world.
Of course it’s a big leap to assume, because I had this idea they had to. But so is assuming they’re doing the online content, with the ocean of tech issues it’s bringing, just for the sake of piracy. Let’s wait for their answer.
08/10/2011 at 12:18 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
The context is that this is being done solely for the sake of piracy. It’s in answer to a question about what protection the game will have, and the full answer is very clear that GSC see this as a solution to piracy. They don’t mention using it to provide varying content at all.
08/10/2011 at 12:22 Teronfel says:
Yeah,it would be really cool but i doubt that’s what they’re gonna do.
08/10/2011 at 11:29 The Sombrero Kid says:
This will not end well for GSC.
08/10/2011 at 11:35 Dr I am a Doctor says:
Who cares? I don’t know a single person who doesn’t have permanent internet access.
08/10/2011 at 12:25 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
Yes you do, and you’re one of them. Patrick Garratt is someone who used to share your view, until he—unexpectedly, and outside his control—found himself a victim to always-on DRM. “I have to be honest; I always roll my eyes when people kick up a stink about this stuff, mainly because, until this week, I had a reliable internet connection.” Read why he changed his mind.
08/10/2011 at 11:37 Bweahns says:
Stalker SOC was on of my top three favourite games of the past decade and I feel Call of Pripyat honed the series perfectly although the plot was pretty meh. When I heard it was going to consoles I lost a lot of interest, this latest news is pretty runk.
Just because it is on console doesn’t mean it’s bad (I loved Batman Arkham Asylum) but being on a console means graphics will be runk and aspects of the game will have to be functional with a controller rather than a mouse/keyboard. Valve are often touted as PC game champions but they never make any games that actually push the envelope hardware wise for PC games, same goes for companies like Blizzard and such.
Having said all that, gamers these days aren’t all power nerds like they were 10 years ago, thus companies can make these stupid decisions without it affecting their bottom line to any significant degree.
08/10/2011 at 11:40 Vanderdecken says:
FOR FUCK’S SAKE.
08/10/2011 at 11:53 skinlo says:
I love how everyone acts as though they are personally offended. I also love how everyone was going to buy this game beforehand, but are suddenly not.
Its time to take a step back and get some perspective I feel.
08/10/2011 at 11:58 Emeraude says:
To be fair, chances that a comment from someone who do not care and did not intend to buy the game will be sent are fairly low, are they not ?
“I love how everyone acts as though they are personally offended. ”
In a way, if they invested even a little bit of themselves hoping for that game, they are.
Oh, and if you have a better strategy than boycott, I’m all ears for your perspective.
08/10/2011 at 13:42 Mattressi says:
I love that you see us irrational and tell us to take a step back: apparently it’s irrational for someone to not buy a game. I have an unreliable (at best) internet connection, so there’s no way I’ll be playing this. Even if I had a reliable connection, I like to own what I purchase and be able to use it whenever is physically possible for me to. If I have electricity, a working computer and have paid for the singleplayer game, I want to be able to play it. If I can’t, I won’t buy it, because I’m not in the market for a singleplayer game with the downsides of a multiplayer game.
How about you keep living in your consumer-drone world and keep out of the affairs of people who choose to have a will of their own and vote with their wallets.
08/10/2011 at 12:01 fitzroy_doll says:
Dislike. If anything, this will increase piracy, as people seek to avoid this issue.
Many long term STALKER fans/modders commenting on the issue on the GSC forums: http://www.gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr3&thm_page=1&thm_id=4993&sec_id=16#90162
08/10/2011 at 12:05 TooNu says:
Well STALKER was good, COP was allright. I assume it’s still a downhill trend for the next game in the series aswell. I can miss this one.
08/10/2011 at 12:07 standardman says:
‘GET OUT OF HERE, STALKER’
08/10/2011 at 12:27 fitzroy_doll says:
+1
08/10/2011 at 12:10 Kaira- says:
“Within reason” and always online-DRM don’t really go together, do they? For shame, now I feel bad for having bought Shadow of Chernobyl.
08/10/2011 at 12:13 Davee says:
Uh oh. This does not bode well. Awaiting more info…
08/10/2011 at 12:15 Unaco says:
This is just silly. Piracy is a problem, and devs/publishers should do something to fight it, but not this. We’ve seen… this sort of thing doesn’t prevent piracy… it just punishes legitimate customers. The Pirate Product becomes better than the Legitimate Product, both give the player the game, the Legit one asks them to be permanently online to keep the game, while the Pirated one doesn’t.
DRM isn’t necessarily bad… there is and can be Good DRM. That’s the solution. I think it was GabeN who said something along the lines of “Provide a better service than the pirates, and people will buy the product”. Always online connections are not Good DRM, unless there is going to be oodles and oodles of content and interactivity between you and the servers and other players… that is, unless there is an incentive to be connected.
This is a shame. STALKER is one of the best series to have graced the PC… an uncompromising, atmospheric, beautiful pair of games (SoC & CoP). This game is dead to me (or at least off my radar), until GSC claim this was a misunderstanding, or they show/tell me the things that always being connected will give me over and above the game.
08/10/2011 at 13:54 cliffski says:
“This is just silly. Piracy is a problem, and devs/publishers should do something to fight it, but not this”
Then what?
I don’t mean fior little niche indie titles like mine (I don’t need DRM), but for guys making 10 million dollar games that need to sell 2 million copies to break even.
What should they do?
Everyone I know in the industry, indie or mainstream HATES DRM with a vengeance, but some of them use it because nothing else is available. They tried suing pirates, got flamed to death for it, tried taking down thepiratebay, got flamed to death for it. Tried getting ISPs to police it… same story.
Thepiratebay is still online and PC game piracy is still rampant.
As head of Ubisoft/Activision/EA/GSC what would you do?
If it was me, I’d cancel all marginal-profitability offline game and purely make MMOs. Just look at the money zynga makes to see why. I’d fuckign hate to do that, but as a business move, it probably adds up..
08/10/2011 at 14:02 Jimbo says:
If your 10 million dollar game needs to sell 2 million copies to break even then you’re doing something very wrong.
08/10/2011 at 14:08 LionsPhil says:
Release them on consoles, where the DRM is taken for granted and seems to work (I think?), and delay the PC version so that 0-day piracy can’t undercut sales there. Since the PC is a heterogenous platform and thus more involved to test for, some clever scheduling could probably use this time as a development buffer.
I wouldn’t pay for PC DRM middleware (or pay my own development teams to spend time on such) without better evidence that it more than pays for itself, though. At present, the success of pirates would seem to indicate that it is not a worthwhile investment—it does not work as advertised.
08/10/2011 at 15:09 Mattressi says:
@Cliffski: So, since people (likely almost all of whom are pirates) complained about games companies trying to sue pirates, games companies should instead ruin the game for their customers in order to slightly slow piracy so that cracked versions appear after 2 days instead of 1 (or, as often happens, appear 4 days before release instead of 5)?
If games companies really can’t turn a profit due to piracy, how exactly are they around? Also, why would an AAA company be selling games for $5 each?
Perhaps AAA games companies should simply look at making their games better quality, rather than assuming that their lost sales are due to piracy. Piracy numbers always have been high – it’s just that 10 years ago it was mostly just burnt disks and untraceable. Now people can see the figures, freak out about it and ignore that their sales are dropping because of their DRM and/or horrible, no quality game.
You don’t train a dog by beating the crap out of it when it doesn’t do what you want and you don’t attract customers by ruining buyer’s gaming experiences with DRM and/or a crap game. Instead, you make it more appealing to buy the game than pirate it – or at the very least make it as appealing as pirating (ignoring cost) by not screwing buyers over while pirates play the game without insane restrictions.
08/10/2011 at 15:32 cliffski says:
Mattressi
Do you really think when you pay $40 for a game the developer or even the publisher gets $40? if so, you need to read up on how the industry works.
Plus, you’re solution is to make ‘better games’. I see. And here we were, as developers deliberately making shit games until now. if only we had known.
If the game are so shit, why do people break the law to get them? And what games do you consider so good they don’t get pirated? I’d love to see one.
Also if you think games companies always make a profit and never lose money, you are flat wrong. There are tons of ex games industry people who work in banking and database development and vereything else because one day they found the office door locked and were told it was all over.
DRM is a disastrous and irritating system.
But show me a better one. One that actually works and prevents piracy for big budget games.
08/10/2011 at 15:37 iucounu says:
Agree with most of that Cliffski but show me a DRM system that works and prevents piracy for big-budget games?
Nothing seems to work, and you just end up pissing off the paying customers.
08/10/2011 at 15:52 TillEulenspiegel says:
Darkspore. Diablo 3. Any MMO.
The only effective DRM is hosting game logic on your servers. Not just static files, complex game logic that’s not easy to reverse engineer. Turning your game at least partially into an MMO.
The other scenario where DRM works is simple encryption to prevent pre-release piracy. Only really relevant if you’re distributing physical media.
Everything else is snake oil, a feeble attempt to marginally delay piracy that does far more harm than good.
08/10/2011 at 16:07 Jimbo says:
Do YOU really think they’re only seeing $5 from a $60 shelf price with 2M copies sold? If so then either YOU need to read up on how the industry works, they need to go back to business school, or you need to make your point without the ridiculous hyperbole.
If you wanna talk figures then let’s talk figures, but let’s not just invent nonsense.
08/10/2011 at 16:16 cliffski says:
Jimbo, ok, I’ll go start up my own games company, and run it for fourteen years as research ok?
08/10/2011 at 16:33 Unaco says:
@Cliffski…
I’m not a game developer, or publisher, so it isn’t really my job to come up with these things… It’s their jobs to figure it out.
Saying that though, ideal sort of DRM for me is something like SpaceChem (as an example, I’m not too sure if it does actually work as DRM or count as DRM). With a legit version, through Steam, when I’m playing and connected, I’m hooked up to the central servers, and get things like Leaderboards, comparisons of my solutions, ability to upload my solutions, ResearchNet as well as tying in all my Steam friends and their performance, achievements etc. These are things on top of the game, added bonuses, incentives to be connected. The Pirate version (if it exists) wouldn’t be able to connect to the central servers (or shouldn’t) and so, those who pirate just get the game and not the added incentives.
It should be like this, or so I think…
Legitimate Game gives you the game, but also…
- Always connected (should be optional, you lose the bonuses when not connected, but still have the game).
+ Bonuses for being connected.
Pirated Game gives you the game, that’s all.
No connection required.
No access to the bonuses.
What we actually tend to have just now is…
Legitimate Game
- Always connected, not optional.
No bonus, no incentive.
And so, the Pirated product is a better product.
This goes to what GabeN said… “Provide a better product/service than pirates, and people will use your service”. Games on Steam, with Steamworks, are, for me, a better product/service than the pirated versions. And this is probably why Valve don’t give a thought to piracy… it doesn’t affect them.
08/10/2011 at 19:22 Jimbo says:
Why, Cliffski? If you can’t see how ridiculous those numbers are after the first 14 years of ‘research’ then I doubt another 14 are going to help you.
08/10/2011 at 19:35 cliffski says:
Ok jimbo, clearly I know fuck all about the games industry. I’ll go back to my paper round now shall I?
For fucks sake…
08/10/2011 at 20:31 MichaelPalin says:
@Cliffski The solution is to give customers reasons to pay for the games (which, by the way is not the contrary to “not pirate the games”). Making good games is a given obviously, but it is not the only way. It comes also in the form of not looking like a big corporation that only sees customers as an obstacle to reach their wallet and only see games as commodities that have to look half-decent for the marketing/PR guy (that right now absorb half of the budget if not more) to make it look a must-have.
The ultimate fact that many developers don’t see is that gamers do like giving money to them when they think it’s deserved. Just go for a walk on gog.com and you’ll see plenty of people that buy the same game various times or gift it and still thanks the people from the company for being given the opportunity to do so. The problem is that the industry is completely disconnected from its customers and they know it (I think it is inherent to it, by the way, but this is still a useful advice for people who believe that good practices are possible inside an industry).
08/10/2011 at 22:13 Pointless Puppies says:
@cliffski:
Then what?
I don’t mean fior little niche indie titles like mine (I don’t need DRM), but for guys making 10 million dollar games that need to sell 2 million copies to break even.
What should they do?
The fact that you honestly believe that draconian, intrusive DRM is the only way to prevent piracy speaks volumes for the sad state of the industry today. We have a reached a point where consumers have been brainwashed into thinking the only way for a company to properly secure its property is to handcuff every consumer and fuck ‘em in the rear. It is truly, truly sad.
The PROPER way of doing DRM is to give reason for people to buy it. You want examples of good DRM? Steam is one. Voluntary DRM that people actually WANT to have, all because it comes packed with a gigantic variety of convenient features, dirt cheap sales, and a huge community. Steam by itself has transformed a lot of people from pirates to paying customers, because Valve went and gave a REASON for people to pay other than “lulz you’re legal”.
09/10/2011 at 00:33 Jimbo says:
@cliffski You could do that if you like, or you could just stop acting like a bit of experience in the industry gives you carte blanche to make up anything you like in order to support your point of view, before promptly getting ultra defensive about it when you’re called on it.
Nobody should be out there making $10m games which require 2 million sales just to break even in the first place, piracy or no piracy. The publisher should be seeing around 50% of the shelf price, not <10%.
09/10/2011 at 03:08 Mattressi says:
Cliffski, the point of my post was that piracy of games has always been high and will always be high (unless games are just streamed through video like OnLive). Games companies shouldn’t be focusing on stopping pirates – they should be focusing on pleasing customers. If a game manages to never be pirated, but no one buys it because it has a horrible mess of rootkit always-on kill-your-dog DRM, is that really a win?
Apparently Ubisoft’s PC sales are down 90% despite them claiming that their DRM is a success (source: http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/07/opinion-ubisoft-piracy-and-the-death-of-reason/). So, if their DRM is successfully stopping piracy (surely I don’t have to link to that article…), why have their sales dropped? I’d say the most likely causes are: customers being scared off by DRM; customers getting sick of the terrible porting (or even just completely crap games) that Ubisoft keep churning out; or the games market has suddenly died and pick-up sticks will now become the new entertainment.
I’m willing to bet that it’s one of the first two reasons (or both). So, the solution isn’t to stop piracy; it’s to bring back the customers. Pirates will always pirate. Perhaps if they couldn’t, some might buy it – but will games companies actually get back their lost 90% of customers in pirates who can’t pirate the game? Extremely unlikely.
09/10/2011 at 03:21 Jason Moyer says:
If companies are spending more on developing games than they can reasonably expect to get back through sales, the problem to me seems to be with the companies and not with piracy or whatever other excuse they want to make for making poor business decisions.
When a film loses money you don’t hear the MPAA spouting off about how it’s because people are bootlegging their films. They acknowledge that it sucks and try to crack down on it but ultimately the responsibility for a film’s success or failure lies with the people who funded and produced it. I think the videogame industry would benefit significantly from that sort of philosophy.
09/10/2011 at 06:50 Bonedwarf says:
Cliff’s petulance invalidates any of his opinions as he never argues fair and just acts like a spoilt child. He’s also voided on the grounds of never-ending DLC for GSB highlighting greed, so go sit in the corner quietly, there’s a good boy. Adults are talking now.
Just a curious note… Publishers make all these claims about piracy. How many lost sales etc… Four pirated versions per one sale seems to be the claim on an article posted further back in the comments, and from comments Sega made recently. Which leads me to this…
Starforce when it came out was uncrackable. It took two YEARS for a working crack for GT Legends to appear. I know because I got the game free with GTR2 when I bought it here and refused to install it after Starforce on an earlier title damaged my system. (Yes, it did. Feel free to argue otherwise. You will be ignored as I have no reason to lie. There’s also the ties to Russian mafia which are quite interesting. Seriously. Researched this for a piece I was writing for a former employer). Instead, once the pirated version appeared a couple of years later I used that and my legitimate serial number.
Anyhoo, taking GTL, and any other Starforce protected titles, if piracy really was as widespread and every pirated copy was the lost sale publishers claim, those titles should have been the highest grossing PC titles of all time, or at least very high on that list.
Of course the reality is they sold about what you’d expect.
Never believe for a second that piracy is the big issue here. This is about control. It’s much easier to push you into buying a publishers new title if the old one is rendered inoperative by the server being shut down. EA do it now with online stuff for their games. Only a matter of time before it starts happening for offline play to leverage titles. It’ll be smaller, less popular titles first, but mark my words, the day is coming. This is an industry that can teach the MPAA and RIAA a thing or two about greed.
The perfect case for this is the DVD of Terminator 2 from 2003 that came with a digital copy of the movie, loaded with DRM. Good luck playing the file now. The server is long dead, has been since at least 2008. An entire disk turned into a coaster by your access to the contents being controlled by other parties.
Build a decent product and people will buy it. People will defeat your DRM. Treating people like criminals is only going to lower your sales.
Honestly, this is not fucking rocket science. Witcher 2, DRM free on GOG, sold over a million.
Incidentally people crying over Steam being harsh DRM need to change their meds. I’ve seen lots of whining in the wake of the FM2012 announcement, most of it wrong. “Offline mode DOESN’T WORK IN STEAM!” Funny, works fine for me on multiple systems.
I’m a writer myself. I’ve had my stuff copies and used by other people. You know what? I don’t care. Leave me attribution intact and don’t claim you made it yourself, I’m ecstatic to see people sharing it.
Perhaps if piracy keeps people like Cliff awake at night, they should consider a career change. Society teaches us all to share as kids, and that sharing is good. Then tries to reverse that lesson as adults. If people not paying for every copy of your creation upsets you that much… Well you really chose the wrong field to go into. And the wrong society to do it in.
09/10/2011 at 12:01 Mattressi says:
Bonedwarf, I agree with you on almost everything you said; except that I don’t think Cliff is a horrible person for making DLC. His games are reasonably niche, so I can’t imagine that he’s made much more money than he needs to pay for food and rent (I could be wrong though – I really am just guessing). Because it’s niche, with more dedicated fans than other games (like AAA titles) they’re happy to pay a little extra for a little extra. Plus, as a one man team (except the people he hires/contracts/whatever) I imagine that it’s not very economical for him to make free DLC when it would probably take him a while. I bought the base game for $20 way back when and had a lot of fun with it, but I’ve always really wanted a campaign to go with it (especially 4x; that would be awesome!), so I’ve considered buying the DLC with a campaign (can’t remember which one it is), but I just don’t have all that much money currently to be spending it on every game that I desire. I’m sure that once I get back to the money levels I had a few years ago when I bought GSB I’ll happily buy some of the DLC. Some of the new races/factions don’t particularly interest me, but it’s not like I’m forced to buy them.
Anyway, apart from that, I agree with what you’ve said. Especially the whole ‘control’ angle – I’ve always wondered why publishers would force DRM on their customers when they know it doesn’t work, but if they were working towards having everything online-only so that they could pull the plug when their new title comes out, that would make sense. Not saying that’s their reasoning, but it’s a possibility.
Also, I really agree with the “if you’re going to flip out when your game is pirated, don’t become a games designer/maker/publisher” sentiment. Hopefully capitalism will pull through and customers might grow some balls and stop buying games with horrible DRM. Then the publishers will have to decide whether they want to simply make a good profit on their good games or if they want to find work elsewhere – I doubt many will drop out of the games industry, because only the crappiest of games seem to not turn a profit these days.
09/10/2011 at 15:21 Jim Rossignol says:
“Cliff’s petulance invalidates any of his opinions as he never argues fair and just acts like a spoilt child. He’s also voided on the grounds of never-ending DLC for GSB highlighting greed, so go sit in the corner quietly, there’s a good boy. Adults are talking now.”
And you invalidate your opinion by confusing “making money” with “greed”. Like everyone who sells DLC, he does *because people buy it*.
Also: Not convinced your comments count as “adults talking” when you think lessons you learn as a child necessarily translate to adult life.
08/10/2011 at 12:21 Emeraude says:
@Chris D
Following your logic to it’s extreme one would argue that piracy should be described as murder. They’re both equally crimes after all.
Copyright infringement is not theft. It obeys a different set of laws, and risks altogether different punishments. It has vastly different socio-economical consequences – and technical necessities.
As such, it should discussed at the kind of crime it is. Not the one people misunderstand it to be.
08/10/2011 at 12:35 greenbananas says:
I can’t be the only one thinking kickbacks, can I? Why else would these companies continuously deliberately sabotage the PC version of their multiplat games?
08/10/2011 at 12:35 Cael says:
Shadow of Chernobyl is one of my top 5 favorite games of all time, a real masterpiece. I’ve put more hours than is healthy into those three games, but I will not buy stalker 2 if they keep this DRM in. What a shame.
08/10/2011 at 12:41 Psychopomp says:
There is nothing worse than knowing the solution to a puzzle, but not having the twitch skill to pull it off. Lack of twitch shots had nothing to do with consoles, and everything to do with Portal being a fucking puzzle game.
08/10/2011 at 12:47 applecup says:
On the up side, at least this means I can spend the money I’d set aside for it on something more constructive. Like food.
08/10/2011 at 12:50 jakonovski says:
Dear developers: why not create something positive with the constant internet connection, instead of inflicting it as punishment on legitimate customers? People generally don’t want to pay money for punishment.
08/10/2011 at 13:24 greenbananas says:
Never heard of EVE: Online, have you?
08/10/2011 at 12:50 Navagon says:
I was a huge fan of the first and third games and quite liked the second one too. But there’s no way in hell I’m touching this one with with 50bargepoles all doing some kind of bargepole conga.
08/10/2011 at 12:54 Zarunil says:
I’ll pick it up on Steam sale in a year once it’s €9,99 and they’ve patched out the DRM.
Thanks.
08/10/2011 at 15:16 Shortwave says:
Indubitably!
08/10/2011 at 12:58 Sigvatr says:
I know there are a billion comments already and no one will read this, but whatever. Stalker is one of the few series in the past decade I actually thoroughly enjoyed, despite its rough spots. I actually bought all three of them, which is a fucking miracle because I have terrabytes of pirated games.
A requirement for permanent internet access makes me extremely sad because I do not have that. The area in which I live has extremely bad reliability problems and I have not been able to avoid them for over a year. My internet connection will reset roughly every twenty minutes.
After dishing out the cash to GSC three times, I have no choice but to pirate it this time. They think they have found a viable solution to piracy. The fact of the matter is that shortly after launch, someone is going to have obtained all of that data on their server required for single play and crack it open like a fortune cookie. I’m going to torrent that shit so fast that my computer will get shit burn.
08/10/2011 at 20:36 MichaelPalin says:
Just a thought, since you are going to pirate STALKER2, are you going to use the money not spent on buying another game? I don’t think piracy is bad, but I think you have to still give something back if you have the money.
08/10/2011 at 13:00 Hoaxfish says:
I’d just like to say… right now, since earlier this week, my internet connection is yo-yoing up & down like a hyperactive child.
I live in a very high connectivity area, 1st world country, isps everywhere, big city, etc… and yet, here I am with a connection which would prevent me from playing this.
08/10/2011 at 13:16 Advanced Assault Hippo says:
+1 to the list of Stalker aficionados who will now not be buying Stalker 2.
Farewell, sweet Stalker. Farewell.
08/10/2011 at 13:16 mr.ioes says:
It feels like most people who commentated on this article didn’t read the news. Either that, or I misinterpreted what that guy said.
It reads like a new way of fighting piracy -> unlocking needed files as the player progresses. It actually could prevent early pirated copies.
Could. We will see. If it doesn’t and pirates effectively get a better version of the game yet again, I’ll be pissed. Likely outcome.
If they support mods though, I’ll still buy it with eyes closed. Stalker has a huge (and I mean HUUUUGE) russian community which does an excellent job.
08/10/2011 at 20:37 MichaelPalin says:
This is how the Ubisoft always online DRM works, it’s nothing new.
08/10/2011 at 13:26 Chickenfeed says:
And now the people who don’t want the DRM issues will get the pirate version which won’t suffer from the always-on problems – Everybody’s happy!
08/10/2011 at 13:29 feda says:
Thank god, now I don’t have to buy it. I’ll just get the free download version.
08/10/2011 at 13:31 rocketman71 says:
Well, GSC: I’ve bought ALL THREE STALKERs, plus two or three Cossacks.
If STALKER 2 comes with always on DRM shit, have no doubt that your last sale to me ever has already been done.
08/10/2011 at 13:35 Njordsk says:
You lost a customer GSC.
And me a follow up for one of my favorite game ever. But I will not buy it, you can be sure.
08/10/2011 at 13:54 Shortwave says:
Sorry GSC. I can’t buy a game with crappy always online DRM.
Please smarten up.
08/10/2011 at 14:00 Olddan says:
Boohoo. Yet again a load of people with internet connections moaning on the internet about having to have an internet connection.
As long as it works I couldn’t care less.
08/10/2011 at 15:21 Shortwave says:
That’s not actually the issue at hand.
I have a reliable enough connection but what if I want to play the game on my laptop on a road trip?
Or go sit outside and play.. Which I love doing BTW sometimes.
Or what if the net/power just goes out? What if I decide to cut my net off to save money for school?
Now I can’t even play games I own! WTF?
Now picture that with all games…
No thank you.
That is the issue at hand.
08/10/2011 at 16:16 dogsolitude_uk says:
My net connection went down last week, for 24 hours. Still, at least I could play The Witcher 2.
One significant issue is that it relies not just on the user’s internet connection, but also their speed, and also whether or not GSC’s servers are available as well.
GSC may not even exist in ten year’s time. This may not bother you, but gaming has been a hobby of mine for fifteen years now, and I’m currently playing through Morrowind again.
Even Steam has an offline mode, and Valve has unofficially said they’d ‘patch out’ any online requirements if they go t1t$ up.
08/10/2011 at 17:02 Olddan says:
If you want to play in your garden, or when your internet connection is out, you can’t; It’s as simple as that.
When did we become so entitled that we have to be able to do everything we want in every way we want?
I have sympathy for people who really don’t have a reliable enough connection to play at all, but this is a business decision; the publisher obviously feels that they will gain more sales from stopped pirates than they’ll lose from people with bad connections.
They might not be right, but it’s their product and their choice to make.
08/10/2011 at 19:54 ShrikeMalakim says:
The problem is that DRM goes fundamentally against the very root of commerce: if I buy something, I own it. This just enforces that software is never bought, only rented, so legitimate purchasers are now paying for the privilege of getting treated like thieves.
08/10/2011 at 22:18 Pointless Puppies says:
When did we become so entitled that we have to be able to do everything we want in every way we want?
Is this some kind of a joke or troll post? I know that the whole “lulz sense of entitlementz” BS non-argument is spewed constantly by people as a way of saying “I disagree with your complaints but I have no real arguments”, but are you seriously suggesting it’s inappropriate to expect to play a single-player video game anytime the consumer wants after having paid for it? Are you really that dense, or is this some masterfully hidden sarcasm I’m not detecting?
Yes, the NERVE of these people! Expecting silly things like ACCESS to their game after they have paid for it! What a laughable assertion these dim-wits have!
08/10/2011 at 14:07 googoogjoob says:
man and stalker is one of my favorite game series too
08/10/2011 at 14:13 B0GiE-uk- says:
Being in the military and away from a internet connection Its a no buy from me too!
GSC you can ram your DRM up your arse!
08/10/2011 at 15:29 Vinraith says:
I really don’t understand why the narrative every time this happens isn’t “Publisher X hates our troops!”
08/10/2011 at 14:27 Megadyptes says:
This will be cracked a week before it’s released.
08/10/2011 at 15:22 Shortwave says:
Bahaha, yea’ it totally will.
Theres just no winning sometimes.
08/10/2011 at 14:35 Vinraith says:
I would have been a first day sale (as I was with SoC and CoP). Now, I’ll either be no sale at all, or a $5 sale once I hear they’ve patched this crap off. Either way, I hope momentarily inconveniencing the pirates was worth all the lost legitimate sales, and lost customer good will.
Wait, no I don’t. I hope this bites them in the ass. Hard. The industry needs to learn that this shit is not acceptable, and maybe a few production houses need to die to make the point.
08/10/2011 at 16:09 DiamondDog says:
The ignorant, detached insensitivity of some gamers is what really makes me love being involved in this hobby. Warms my heart.
Come on. Maybe a few devs need to close? I have no love for this kind of DRM but just think about what you’re saying.
08/10/2011 at 16:26 TillEulenspiegel says:
Yeah, that’s right. Moronic business decisions should always be rewarded with success. That’s a sure sign of a healthy industry. God forbid something as irreplaceable as a game developer should fail.
It’s not like the employees could go and start their own companies or anything. That’s totally impossible. It’s never happened. They’ll just go straight on the dole, never to work again. Poor sods.
08/10/2011 at 17:02 Vinraith says:
What Till said. If consumer-hostile business decisions have no negative consequences, they’ll never go away.
Again, I hope GSC reconsiders, and the game is wildly profitable. But if they don’t, I hope that decision hits them hard, right in the wallet.
08/10/2011 at 17:11 DiamondDog says:
Nice use of sarcasm but nope, I’m still not OK with people losing their jobs because of their companies DRM policies.
But of course you’re right. Redundancy is a trifle thing.
08/10/2011 at 17:18 Vinraith says:
The money I would have spent on STALKER 2 will go to keep some other developers employed, developers who either publish for themselves or whose publishers aren’t bastards. They’ll get my money because they’re providing a better product, and that’s all there is to it. Businesses that provide inferior products should not be allowed to flourish out of some bizarre sense of misplaced guilt, better to spend that money to keep the good ones afloat.
08/10/2011 at 17:34 DiamondDog says:
Where does guilt come into it? What are talking about?
I don’t disagree with any of those points you make. Of course you want to support companies that do the right thing. There are plenty of reasons why a company would go out of business, some of them deserved and some of them not. All I’m saying is I don’t think this is one.
To me, thinking an entire company should go out of business because of a bad decision about DRM is idiotically short sighted. And I think you’re overstating how bad this is for customers. It’s not good certainly (did I mention I agree they’re wrong about this decision?) but ‘hostile’? Come on. They aren’t villains twirling their moustache. They don’t suddenly hate you. They’re trying to protect their product and going the wrong way about it.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just naive. I’m just not OK with being so flippant about peoples lives.
08/10/2011 at 20:01 ShrikeMalakim says:
@DiamondDog: How can you consider a figurative “We consider you all thieves” to be non-hostile?
DRM is blatantly hostile to legitimate customers, and always-on DRM is the worst kind of it.
08/10/2011 at 14:50 Frankie The Patrician[PF] says:
There is a possibility it is only for the ex-CCCP countries like Russia or Ukraine as the piracy rate is much higher there (90 – 95 percent maybe?) and the lower prices just don´t work anymore…
08/10/2011 at 14:58 Oritxupolite says:
One year ago , Sergei Grigorovich
http://focus.ua/society/114970
“The same applies to piracy. On the one hand piracy – it’s stealing, on the other – piracy promotes product. A person who is unable to purchase the product license for the price, still buy it at a cheaper price and piracy becomes a client of the future. For example, he buys the continuation of the game or related products”
Another interview
http://gsc-fan.com/?option=com_content&view=article&id=388
“I believe that software piracy – it’s not really bad, it’s not entirely negative, not entirely a bad effect on product quality. I think that buying pirated copies is for those people who can’t afford the license.”
Really this new of the DRM is old, of 2009 . Grigorovich mencionet it in a interview in russian lenguage .
http://focus.ua/society/77591/
And by the way … this new of the DRM is old, Grigorovich in a interview in russian 2009 year … http://focus.ua/society/77591/ . Very interesting part and a bit funny the topic of the Auchan of Samara
“- Today it is easy to download the “Stalker” on the Internet. How much did you lose due to piracy and how to fight with him?
- Pirated copies sold five times more than the license. Buyers rely on consciousness is not necessary. Especially that “pirates” are sometimes hard to recognize – I recently bought in Samara, in the supermarket “Auchan”, a pirate disc is practically no different from the license. Developers need to adjust to these realities. In general we are interested people to download games on the internet (for a fee. – Focus), but did not buy the box – this would allow us to save half the cost of retail. We will change the approach in the future games will be “tied” to the official online server. Downloaded to the network “pirates” can not be a full game. ”
Is interesting that Grigorovich speak about the piracy of the falsifications – physical pirate copies on sale – and the pirate sales when speak of piracy , something unknow in the West
08/10/2011 at 15:02 Oritxupolite says:
this new of the DRM is old, is mencionet by Grigorovich in some interview in Russia or Ucrania of 2009 … http://focus.ua/society/77591/
- Today it is easy to download the “Stalker” on the Internet. How much did you lose due to piracy and how to fight with him?
- Pirated copies sold five times more than the license. Buyers rely on consciousness is not necessary. Especially that “pirates” are sometimes hard to recognize – I recently bought in Samara, in the supermarket “Auchan”, a pirate disc is practically no different from the license. Developers need to adjust to these realities. In general we are interested people to download games on the internet (for a fee. – Focus), but did not buy the box – this would allow us to save half the cost of retail. We will change the approach in the future games will be “tied” to the official online server. Downloaded to the network “pirates” can not be a full game.
Is interesting that Grigorovich speak about the piracy of the falsifications , and the pirate sales when speak of piracy , something unknow in the West
08/10/2011 at 15:02 Jharakn says:
Playing devils advocate here they say “text information, code and quests will be loaded through that connection” what if that means that there’s an enormous bank of quests, text and audio that couldn’t be held on a local machine due to size constraints and will ensure that each play through is completely unique.
Isn’t that more of the so called “value added DRM” that people use to describe services like steam than appears to be immune to all bad-mouthing on forums?
08/10/2011 at 15:16 Kaira- says:
One could always hope, but the chances for that are abysmaly small. Non-existent, even.
08/10/2011 at 15:06 Teddy Leach says:
Oh for fuck’s sake.
08/10/2011 at 15:13 SquareWheel says:
I bought all three so far, but like hell I’m buying this one.
08/10/2011 at 15:16 Skaxz says:
It constantly amazes me that the publishers are taking absolutely NO collective action to improve PC gaming as a whole. I mean, come on, it’s not rocket science.
PlayStation and Xbox both have an online service – the online service enables developers to give the players certain things that are expected of today’s games, and are, for the most part, taken for granted. These things would be the option for seamless multiplayer sessions, friend finding online, voice chat between players, achivements and the list goes on…
The PC has Steamworks… And Origin… And whatever service Direct2drive is peddling… Etc, etc. And when another publisher gets a “bright idea” to offer yet another online service that will be integrated into just their games, the PC will have that one too.
Sigh.
Doesn’t anyone see how ridiculous that is? Publishers or the digital download game stores are NOT platforms unto themselves. Xbox, PlayStation and PC are the platforms. Publishers work through PSN and Xbox live because they have to, but also because it is simpler for them – I don’t see why they couldn’t come to an agreement to create a joint PC online service that would be integrated into the games they publish. I don’t mean an online store, just an online service that would take care of the DRM, online matchmaking, achievements, patch updates, voice chat, and be like a kind of a social network for PC gamers, regardless of where you bought your game – be it online via digital download or a boxed version from a brick and mortar store.
08/10/2011 at 15:21 Sidorovich says:
This is a mulit-platform release yes? Will Xbox 360 users be forced to have a permanent online connection to play this game. PS3 owners? PC users get screwed again.
For gods sake GSC wise up. People like me bought all 3 of your Stalker titles on Day 1. I even stuck by you after the debacle of Clear Sky’s initial bug ridden release. And this is how you repay your loyal fanbase? Re-think this ‘strategy’ now or your’e fucking doomed.
08/10/2011 at 15:23 mmorpg games says:
tbh i dont mind, since i have most of my games of steam, which i rarely play offline. But yeah it sucks when my internet connection drops, and sometimes i cant play.
08/10/2011 at 15:25 sneetch says:
Well, I bought the stalker steelbook at launch, I bought stalker again in a steam sale, bought pripyat and clear skies and that’s it. I don’t want to be at the mercy of the internet and a relatively minor player when playing my games. These guys may not be around in 5 years.
I’m hoping for more info that explains how this isn’t just ubisofts drm again.
08/10/2011 at 15:29 Lim-Dul says:
So this is how it will go:
Pirates will download and store all the data streamed from GSC’s servers, crack the game to spoof their content server address to localhost (or even use the hosts file to simply redirect the packets to localhost – saw it many times) and create a neat little package like for any other game ever released with DRM.
Pirates: Free game, no connection required
Customers: Fucked
Good job!
08/10/2011 at 15:31 Dominic White says:
GSC are 3 for 3 on games that practically REQUIRED significant fan-patches (see the STALKER Complete series) to feel like finished products. Now they’ve gone for an always-on, partially-streaming system that effectively locks out mods (and fixes) forever.
What on earth are they smoking?
08/10/2011 at 19:01 RobF says:
Yup, of all the companies to be so fucking idiotic as to think “oh yeah, we’ll keep all our data server side” it’s the one who haven’t managed to put out a game that hasn’t required significant work from the community to make it work. CoP being “less broken” than the rest doesn’t really hold out much hope.
I love what GSC do with STALKER, I love the world they’ve created but I really don’t trust them to put out a game that doesn’t fall over on its arse every 5 seconds and for that, I love the community more. Take the stuff they need to work with away? You’ve just got a company that releases broken games.
Well done GSC. You idiots.
08/10/2011 at 15:37 dogsolitude_uk says:
Nice one. As a loyal fan of the game who bought all three, you can count me out too.
Oh, in the infinitesimally small chance the publisher reads this: look at Ubisoft’s PC games sales, and the way they tanked after introducing allways-on DRM. This measure has utterly alienated the PC gaming market. Implementing this kind of thing is the kind of thick-headed, shallow-thinking typical of upper-echelon management who haven’t a damned clue about their market or audience.
Farewell then, STALKER. I’ll still be playing SoC, CS and CoP for years, the same way I do Thief and Morrowind, but if you’re going to force me to jump through hoops, beg your online permission to play a game I paid for and potentially scupper my chances of playing it in 2022 once your servers have been shut down, I’ll just spend the money on the Collector’s Edition of The Witcher 3 when it comes out thanks.
08/10/2011 at 15:41 dogsolitude_uk says:
Apologies if duplicate post, having probs commenting!
Yup, I had accidentally duplicated my post. Anyhoo, just to let you know, for what it’s worth I’ve emailed GSC to let them know that my ‘lost sale’ won’t be due to piracy, but the fact that they’re asking for always-on DRM.
Dunno if I’ll get a response, but hey. I always figure that a simple refusal to buy will just translate to lost sales, and they may, like Ubi, blame it on piracy rather than their DRM!
08/10/2011 at 21:09 MichaelPalin says:
To what mail have you sent your complaint?
08/10/2011 at 21:37 dogsolitude_uk says:
Probably the wrong person to be perfectly honest… I sent it to (both of) the email addresses on the ‘Contact Information’ page of GSC’s website. No idea if it will get to anyone ‘important’ there or not though.
I did this on the basis that in any company I’ve ever worked for complaints/comments/feedback usually find their way to the desk of whoever’s responsible for whatever’s going on, and also any one email/letter is usually taken to be representative of the views of anywhere between 50-1000 people, depending on the market they’re operating in (the idea being that the other 49-999 couldn’t be ar$3d to write and just sat there sulking and b1tching online).
09/10/2011 at 00:09 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
I did the same, sent an email explaining that I will not buy the game with this DRM (nor pirate it), but instead spend my money and time with developers & publishers with more respect for their customers.
08/10/2011 at 15:56 timespike says:
This is one of those things where if there’s more reasons than JUST security, they might be okay. There’s a reason why client/server is such a popular architecture. If they use it as a way to roll out continuous new content, etc. They might be all right – after all, every MMO in the world requires pretty much constant connection. If they’re ONLY doing it for security, though, yeah, there goes my interest.
08/10/2011 at 16:14 Outright Villainy says:
Hmm, I really find this extremely hard to believe. It’s the most bone headed move I’ve seen a company make since, well, ever. It’s the most intrusive DRM system ever designed, for a game built on a niche pc community that thrived due to modding. If this goes ahead this will tank beyond all belief. There isn’t even a question of it. Terrible DRM goes unchecked for big console releases that are also on pc, because they sell like hotcakes on consoles, and if its ignored on pc, not biggie. But this is a game whose entire community is from pc. No one will buy it.
08/10/2011 at 16:20 Necron99 says:
People should get paid for what they do. If we could take all of the pirates out back and shoot them, we wouldn’t have DRMs, or constant connection required games at all. Titan Quest and Iron Lore was destroyed because at one point in time there were more people logged into their multiplayer server, than they had copies sold. The pirates killed them, and the fact that they were such a small company, they couldn’t afford any type of piracy protection. I think its great what Blizzard, Steam, Stalker, Etc. is doing to make sure they get paid. If everyone did it for a few years, maybe the pirates would go get a JOB and the folks who busted their ass for 6 years on a game can get paid for it by everyone who plays it.
08/10/2011 at 18:15 Dominic White says:
Titan Quest sold a huge amount – THQ have it high in their regular games-on-sale rotation, especially on Steam. It might have gotten pirated a lot, but the publisher killed Iron Lore, not the game underperforming.
08/10/2011 at 19:02 alundra says:
your speech is borderline fascist propaganda.
09/10/2011 at 01:53 Saldek says:
@Necron99: If people like you had a say in things, we’d no longer have lives worth living.
09/10/2011 at 06:22 wyrmsine says:
@Necron99: People should get paid for what they do. I’m going to focus on that, instead of calling attention to the rest of what I’d charitably define as “crazy-talk”*.
I’d happily pay GSC for their next three single-player games, so long as I can play them without an internet connection. The first STALKER game was so good, I’ll pay them for that retroactively. I intend to pay their asking price several times over, in other words. Unfortunately, I’m not going to pay for a game with a restriction that’s going to impede my ability to play those next games, whether in my current home with a great connection, or at the cottage, or at my parents, or in my other home, where the capricious whim of British Telecom and Virgin randomly ditch my ‘net connection for five minutes at a time.
*Hint: The bit about shooting people as a solution really sets your tone as either “laughable” or “call-the-police” depending on how seriously you want to be taken.
08/10/2011 at 16:29 Iskariot says:
“Part of the content will be located on the server and downloaded as the game progresses. ”
-
So when I buy a hardcopy of the game I will not be buying a complete game on disc? What happens when in 5 years I want to replay the game and the servers are no more?
I have bought all Stalker games to date. I will NOT be buying this one.
And what is more I won’t be buying anything from GSC if this is true.
-
This is such a stupid move. Look at what these kind of DRM antics brought UBI. Their sales plummeted with 90%. PC gamers do not tend to accept this kind of nonsense. And I assure you the pirates will find a way to release the complete game anyway.
-
GSC you just destroyed the goodwill of the PC community. And just like the idiots of Ubisoft you will regret this, because it will destroy your sales.
-
Goodbye GSC
08/10/2011 at 16:30 Kefren says:
Noooooooooooooooo!
So silly.
If a game has DRM then the amount I’ll pay drops by about 90%, depending on how severe it is. Whereas I pre-ordered and paid for Witcher 2 at full price despite not having even played the first game yet (which I owned twice, once in a lovely boxed version, once on GOG). Like many indie games I buy, I am happy to pay prices because I feel goodwill towards the publisher.
Slap in DRM, especially such silly restrictive ones, and they’ll maybe get a sale to me when it gets to a bargain bin price of about £2 many years later.
I’m ineffably grumpy now, my dear sirs.
08/10/2011 at 16:32 MrGreen72 says:
Damn! Does this mean I won’t be able to unplug my ethernet cable while playing? Nazis!
08/10/2011 at 16:34 lijenstina says:
It will be probably moded out Stalker is huge in Russia and former USSR.
They did use Starforce protection for the Russian versions of CoP maybe they’ll use different ones in different markets.
08/10/2011 at 16:46 malkav11 says:
I really hope they reconsider. I’ve purchased every Stalker game to date, and I was really looking forward to this one, but I simply will not buy any game with that sort of DRM.
08/10/2011 at 16:54 MichaelPalin says:
It’s true what they say, love is not forever. Especially when they show you a middle finger the size of the Eiffel Tower (yeah!, I have just seen that MW3 trailer).
08/10/2011 at 16:56 jaheira says:
If you keep enough of the code server-side it’s not gonna get pirated, right? Someone tell me if I’m wrong. It’ll be every interesting to see how this and Diablo 3 sells. If it works (ie. sells well without being piratable) we will probably see a huge change in PC gaming. Personally, I’m glad these studios have got the balls to try it out first.
08/10/2011 at 19:07 alundra says:
” If it works (ie. sells well without being piratable) we will probably see a huge change in PC gaming.”
Yeah, it will change alright, we all will be forced to pay premium for bugged releases of unfinished products while received only part of it as the other part will sit on their servers.
That’s it, if we want to keep gaming, or quit it altogether, which is shaping to be a good idea, as it’s turning out to be, each passing day, with this kind of crap, it’s becoming more of a burden than an enjoyment.
08/10/2011 at 17:07 Roshin says:
How quickly we forget.
Being an old PC gamer, I remember how Stalker was nothing but rumours and vaporware for a very long time. Finally, they managed to boot a passable game out the door and then the mod community took over and turned it into the cult hit it is today.
I really hope this DRM nonsense is just a rumour or a wonky translation and that they’re not getting too big for their boots.
08/10/2011 at 18:28 Delusibeta says:
I asked for confirmation from the GOG forums, and I got it: http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/stalker_2_to_require_permanant_internet_connection/post3
Sorry folks, accurate translation it seems.
09/10/2011 at 06:16 coldvvvave says:
Mods gave STALKER a longer lifespan but it was a cult game even without them.
08/10/2011 at 17:19 studenteternal says:
hrmm I am confused I thought they wanted me to buy this game. Oh well.
08/10/2011 at 17:22 rei says:
I’ve been feverishly refreshing this story in the hopes that I’ll see a “turns out this was a misunderstanding” sort of thing. Please? :\
08/10/2011 at 17:32 smallfry says:
Huge fan of the stalker series, but this kills it for me. Sorry GSC, unless you remove this “feature” I will not buy your product.
08/10/2011 at 17:38 vodkarn says:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
08/10/2011 at 18:06 Guhndahb says:
Well I’m livid. I’ve bought SoC and CS twice (retail and Steam) and CoP once. Once I was sure they didn’t butcher it for cross-platform, I was certain and excited to buy 2 as well. I adore the series. But no longer. (And yes, when I say I won’t buy, I actually don’t. If consumers don’t stick to their principles, we deserve what we get.)
08/10/2011 at 19:09 Shooop says:
Welcome to the future kids! Where you don’t buy games anymore and own them, you pay to have someone let you play them, kind of like a rental!
08/10/2011 at 22:22 Heisenberg says:
if you want physical copy too…buy digital copy, download cracked copy and burn to disc,find cover art and download,print cover art and slide into dvd case.
09/10/2011 at 00:49 Shooop says:
You totally misunderstood me Heisenberg.
I’m referring to the “must be online at all times” thing because digital copies still count as ownership. You can mess around with the files on your HD, back them up to a external drive, etc.
When you’re required to be online any time you play the game that’s not what I call owning the game because if their server’s down… Can’t play it.
08/10/2011 at 19:26 lith says:
It’s nothing to do with graphics capabilities, or differences in game depth, in regards to the PC vs. console debate.
But do you know what consoles suck at? Having a keyboard and mouse. Say goodbye to in-depth interfaces.
08/10/2011 at 19:26 Pod42 says:
.
08/10/2011 at 19:38 sebmojo says:
Same reaction as from many in this thread. Not angry, but I won’t be buying it under those conditions until it’s essentially free.
08/10/2011 at 19:59 Zeewolf says:
Absolutely not acceptable.
08/10/2011 at 20:09 Zenicetus says:
What a terrific way to kill off any interest in pre-orders, or any desire to buy the game on release day.
Even if we ignore the always-on DRM thing — even assuming there are people who would still buy the game with that in place — how many people are going to pre-order or make it a Day 1 purchase without seeing whether this new content-streaming tech works smoothly or not? Especially from a company with a less than steller rep for programming competence?
Are they nuts? Yeah, I guess they’re nuts. This just became a “wait for a year and see what shape it’s in” game for me.
08/10/2011 at 20:58 Saleck says:
what a shame
08/10/2011 at 21:22 RogB says:
7th page, might as well chime in, in the hope someone is reading this
Bought Stalker 1, and call of Pripyat – no interest in buying this now. gratz!
08/10/2011 at 21:34 MellowKrogoth says:
This really sucks, as I’m a big fan of the STALKER series. I guess they don’t want my money, then.
Looks like game devs are learning the wrong lesson from Ubisofts’ experiments…
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/07/opinion-ubisoft-piracy-and-the-death-of-reason/
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110727/16233815292/another-day-another-study-that-says-pirates-are-best-customers-this-time-hadopi.shtml
08/10/2011 at 21:39 skurmedel says:
Well, if they put reasonable DRM on their game us hard-working honest customers with principles could buy their game, but they’ve taken another route. I’m not a fucking charity shop, I’ll buy some other game instead.
08/10/2011 at 21:51 Synesthesia says:
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o22/niqua230/GiFS/ok3lf7.gif
08/10/2011 at 22:23 hitnrun says:
This has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with control. Publishers want to switch from selling products to selling services, because those are more profitable and it’s easier to kick players on to the next $50 thing instead of having to compete with discounted games. Basically, the moment you install the game, the publisher wants you to stop playing and buy the next thing at full price, which is why these Always-On schemes are so often unstable. Because, really, once you’ve paid them, what do they care?
My evidence for this conclusion is simple: Control must be the goal because DRM has no effect on piracy whatsoever. At most, this particularly extreme example will result in a few weeks delay from the normal day-and-date release of pirated Always-On titles. For this, they will sacrifice …a quarter of their sales? Half? Three quarters? It will be hard to overestimate, given that STALKER has (I imagine) a much more tech savvy audience (as a proportion) than, say, Call of Duty.
It always comes back to this. If I want your game, I can take it. Why you pokin me in the eye?
08/10/2011 at 22:25 Pointless Puppies says:
The only thing funnier/sadder than the announcement of this DRM is the amount of people in the comments defending them.
Constantly bending over and saying “thank you sir, may I have another?” is only reflective of one’s inability to draw a line as to when the seller is doing a disservice to the buyer. Blindly accusing that people are “overreacting” to hostile anti-consumer practices is easy and convenient, but not even remotely accurate or perceptive of the real issue at hand.
09/10/2011 at 00:20 jaheira says:
I don’t think it’s possible for a seller to do a “disservice” to a buyer. They are offering you a product you do not want. Say “No thanks” and walk off. That’s it. It’s not a matter of DRM being an “insult” and nobody is disrespecting you.
09/10/2011 at 02:19 Saldek says:
@jaheira: I wonder what your reaction would be if you were to go to the cinema or wanted to buy a work of art and the vendor should require of you to let him slap your bare buttocks with a dead fish (in addition to the usual price, of course). Would you think:
a) “Nah, this dead fish-thing is a taste I never quite aquired, I’ll pass.”
b) “How excentric, but his prerogative, of course.”
c) “You ****, I wanna see this movie, so just take my money, already – and don’t you dare touch me with that ******* fish” (Approximately my personal favourite reaction to intrusive DRM)
I know, the analogy to DRM is a bit wonky. Why would the vendor want to use the punitive fish when you’ve obviously already paid?
09/10/2011 at 02:33 jaheira says:
@ Saldek
I would choose option “a)” unless it was Friday which is fish buttock slapping night at jaheira headquarters.
08/10/2011 at 22:46 fupjack says:
Text information, code, and quests… hmm. Sounds like a way to update the game after the fact, for post-release expansion of the game.
I’d happily pay money for later expansions of the game world. I’ve already paid in blood, sweat, and tears to get some of the more esoteric mods working.
08/10/2011 at 23:13 zakihashi says:
It’ll probably be a good game, some DRM won’t stand in my way to buy it, I never have any issues with DRM, but I guess that’s becasue I don’t have D-tools installed, as that’s what cause most of the issues.
If you can’t afford to buy the games, don’t buy a high end pc and pirate every game you see. Buy a less good one and play the games on another quality setting. I don’t mind them trying this, as piracy only hurt the gaming scene in general.
08/10/2011 at 23:15 DOLBYdigital says:
Interesting…. I could see this work if it only has to connect to the internet when loading a new mission or something. So it wouldn’t require a ‘constant’ internet connection but one while loading the next mission. That would be fine with me since it wouldn’t quit the game if my connection dropped, just slow down loading the next mission. I’m sure others won’t like this since you can’t play it in areas of no internet connection and makes the game dependent upon these servers staying up ‘forever’…
08/10/2011 at 23:37 wazups2x says:
I don’t get why not just make it a Steamworks game? That seems to be the best option for both the consumer and the dev/publisher.
Requires one time registration to the internet and the you can play in offline mode. Plus, all of the great Steamworks features (steamcloud, achievements, etc..).
08/10/2011 at 23:39 fucker says:
from gsc’s twitter: “Stalkers I will confirm the legitimacy of the drm “news” next week. Suffice it to say this is the first I’ve heard about it. So relax :)”
08/10/2011 at 23:45 aizvara says:
I live in Rural England. I’d love a proper internet connection, but much of the ADSL signal between my house and the exchange is running over a combination of rust and the more electrically conductive parts of the water table, so no such luck. This means that multi player games have pretty much been off-limits to me since I moved here, and now it seems that single player games are going that way too.
Actually, now I think about it; I already have loads of games to play and not enough time, this is a perfect solution! Publishers/Devs, please add spurious always on-line requirements to all your new releases, particularly those that I am interested in buying. Perhaps then I’ll get something useful done.
08/10/2011 at 23:58 Juiceman says:
I’m not surprised they went with DRM. Piracy is truly crippling in eastern Europe and Russia, which I believe is there biggest market; certainly bigger than the West at least. As far as convenience on my end I don’t see it being a problem. It’s very rare when I lose connection to the internet. I imagine it’s that way for a lot of other people too, they just like to play up the potential catastrophe.
09/10/2011 at 00:19 MellowKrogoth says:
Meanwhile an obscure “witcher 2″ game also from Eastern Europe goes DRM-free and sells gobs. But don’t follow their example, do like Ubisoft and kill your PC business!
09/10/2011 at 00:22 jaheira says:
@ MellowKrogoth
How do you know that Witcher 2 wouldn’t have sold more with DRM than without? We lack data.
09/10/2011 at 00:33 alundra says:
@jaheira
Try to hide that shilling attitude of yours a little better, besides, it’s not like you are bringing data, valid claims, statistics, or anything similar, to the table.
did you read one of the links posted by MellowKrogoth??
“And they do have that right. But PC gamers work hard for their money, too, and they deserve full-featured games that let them have the best experiences possible on their chosen platform. They deserve a publisher that cares more about its customers than its resentments.”
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/07/opinion-ubisoft-piracy-and-the-death-of-reason
09/10/2011 at 00:51 jaheira says:
@ alundra
Firstly, chill out. Secondly, no I don’t have any info on sales, stats or anything similar. Neither does anyone else. I was just trying to point out that we don’t know whether DRM “works” in terms of sales or not. It would be incredibly hard to ascertain this because to test the theory that DRM helps sales you’d need to hold all other variables constant which is clearly not possible.
All we as consumers know about DRM is that is pisses us off having to deal with it. People whose job it is to know about this stuff have decided that pissing us off is worth it to increase sales. How do you know they are wrong?
09/10/2011 at 01:55 MellowKrogoth says:
“@ MellowKrogoth How do you know that Witcher 2 wouldn’t have sold more with DRM than without? We lack data.”
@jaheira That’s a weird way of putting things, to say the least. You seem to either say that we should put DRM “just in case it raises sales”, regardless of the consequences, or that game publishers have somehow made a reliable statistical link between adding DRM and increased sales.
When CD Projekt said they were gonna release their game drm-free there were all kind of doomsday predictions saying the game would be a commercial failure. Guess what, it’s a massive commercial success (CD Projekt didn’t give numbers but are pleased by the results). Yes, I know that shareholders always want more bang for their bucks, but beyond a certain degree greed is gonna give you the opposite of what you expect.
If drastic DRM such as online-only was a proven, measurable way to increase sales by a large margin, then it would *maybe* be worth the investment and inconvenience to customers. As it is though, it’s more and more obvious that large companies don’t have more reliable data on this than the rest of us, and evidence (as in the articles I linked earlier) rather suggests DRM doesn’t lead to measureable improvements and even probably lowers sales.
09/10/2011 at 00:08 MythArcana says:
These liberal morons still don’t get it. If you ship the game with ZERO DRM, they will sell more copies than with your DRACONION IDIOT SYSTEM. Yet another game I’ll pass on. I won’t even bother to download it off a Russian web site.
09/10/2011 at 02:30 Saldek says:
What do you mean by “liberal morons”?
09/10/2011 at 05:43 Mattressi says:
As a conservative, his statement confuses me too.
09/10/2011 at 11:51 dogsolitude_uk says:
The word ‘liberal’ means many different things to different people.
It can refer to those who believe in free markets that operate without regulation or government interference, and it can also refer to those who are happy for folks to smoke ganja, marry members of the same sex and have abortions (a real issue in the States as I understand it).
Weirdly, or at least I think it’s weird, in the UK we have folks who believe in complete freedom for markets, yet also support government measures to promote traditional family values at the expense of those who wish to enjoy a less conventional lifestyle. Always seemed a bit back-to-front to me. Anyway, drifted o/t there…
09/10/2011 at 00:55 povu says:
Mods are probably out of the question too with this kind of system.
09/10/2011 at 01:14 Laephis says:
Looks like I’ll have $50 to spend on something else.
09/10/2011 at 01:23 Wulf says:
Well then.
I worry that this will be known as some sort of era of idiocy to future historians and archivists.
“Unfortunately, we were only able to salvage part of these few hundred thousand games, and the rest is a simulation we built ourselves, believing to be accurate. When the servers went down for these games, it became impossible to archive them in their entirety, as considering the corporate atmosphere at the time, most software was destroyed rather than archived. This was lamented by many ‘gamers’ of the era who felt sad that their purchases died on them anywhere between 2 to 5 years after release. So as older men and women they couldn’t go back to these pieces of entertainment due to vital elements of them being… well, held hostage if you will, on servers elsewhere. With no way to play these games, they simply gave up on them. Thankfully, publishers eventually realised the error of their ways and got over this particular trend, but the damage was already done.“
09/10/2011 at 02:04 MellowKrogoth says:
You know what, the same thought crosses my mind from time to time. We’re in the era of the games that die. All those online-only games (and obviously, MMOs) will never end up on Gog.com or its future successor in 15 years. Your dad was able to show you the games of his youth, but forget doing the same for your son.
And even if by some miracle the source code was still around in 15 years to make an offline version and the legal situation allowed them to be put on future GOG, interest for them would likely have died, since people won’t be able to reinstall those games every two years (like you can do with Planescape Torment or Deus Ex) and keep singing their praises to the world.
09/10/2011 at 02:27 TillEulenspiegel says:
MMOs are ephemeral by nature, which is a bit sad. Even if you recreate the gameplay experience of Ultima Online circa 1997-1999 (some have tried, none have succeeded perfectly), you’ll never recreate the community. It’s gone forever.
Why am I reminded of Futurama’s “Past-O-Rama”…
Some games like this will probably have the DRM patched out before the servers are shut down. Others, like Diablo 3, have embraced the client/server model so completely that patching it would take serious work which may never be done. Maybe Blizzard eventually would, but most wouldn’t.
It sends a message, at least to me, that you’re not really creating anything of value. That you don’t expect anyone to remember or care in 10-20 years. You’re not pouring your soul into creating something beautiful that will be treasured. Just a few hours’ shallow, disposable entertainment.
09/10/2011 at 13:07 dogsolitude_uk says:
This is at the forefront of my mind in many of these DRM debacles.
You know, I still play old Spectrum games from time to time? I love games, old ones, new ones, middle-aged ones, and hate the idea that I’d be buying a game that only ‘lasts’ a few years thanks to hale the content being on a long-dead server.
Worse still is the effect on the second-hand market. Our local second-hand games/dvds/music guys have stopped selling old PC games because of this kind of thing (though I did manage to get an old, boxed-with-manual copy of Neverwinter Nights a couple of weeks back).
09/10/2011 at 19:19 Wulf says:
Yeah, precisely.
I mean, this has popped into my mind after recently going back to two different games. The first of which was Tex Murphy: The Pandora Directive, and the second of which was Albion. Both surprised me at their modernness in different ways. I didn’t think I’d be able to play old games these days due to the grind and/or difficulty. But those two in particular? I did just fine.
And this got me thinking, just like dogsolitude. If data is being held hostage on these servers, then at some point in the future the game is going to become unplayable. And like MMORPGs, do we realistically believe that they’re going to release the data we don’t have? The only MMORPG I’ve ever seen consider that is Uru. I still love you, Cyan Worlds. I never stopped. Anyway, that’s not the point right now. The point is is that many MMORPGs have gone dark, with no hope of ever bringing them up again without emulation. But the emulation is never, ever perfect.
It’s like playing Exult vs Ultima VII. Exult is a fantastic piece of software, don’t get me wrong. It truly is, but there are quirks and strangeness from the original Ultima VII that just don’t make it into Exult, they were emergent elements that helped make the game. So the best way to play the game is via DOSBox, because you can do that, and I love going back to play Ultima VII in DOSBox. Nothing is stopping me. And this proves what I’m saying: Emulation (Exult) compared to the original (Ultima VII) will always be hugely imperfect, and will lack a lot of the charm of the original game.
The thing is is that this isn’t like DLC or normal DRM. Let’s take Fallout: New Vegas as an example, that had DLC and DRM. With that game, I can burn the entire game to a disc with a selection of cracks which do work. What this means is that I can archive those games and ten, twenty years down the road? I can go back to them. I can pull out New Vegas and play it along with all of its DLC. Even if Steam is long dead, I can still do that. That’s the point of archivism. That’s why you have sites like Abandonia today. And I’m thankful for sites like Abandonia. I don’t know about you but a lot of my original diskettes and CDs from way back when aren’t so functional any more, so sometimes I do have use for that site. Not everything is up on GoG.
Albion wasn’t. :C
But Abandonia had it.
So. 10 years down the road? I can see me ‘donating’ copies of my discs to an abandonware site, just so that those games can be archived, so that they can be remembered by kids, and kids of kids. And you know? That’s awesome. That’s so damn awesome. It’s funny, I’ve actually been talking with Albion a lot recently, and… I was surprised at how many youngsters had played it.
I’m going to segue for a funny story here, forgive me.
Albion had a resurgence in 2010. Reason? Avatar. So here’s a funny thing… Avatar’s original script was written in 1994. 1994, you know. 1994 was the release year of Albion. Go figure. And Avatar reads like a bad napkin copy of Albion’s script. I wish I were kidding, but it’s the truth. So what happened was that people on various sites started saying just this to people, that this was just a cheery, cheap, shallow rip-off of Albion. I hadn’t discovered this until recently – I decided to do some searches to see whether there’s any concept art of the game. I wanted a desktop.
But yeah, what happened was that the youngsters, after having watched Avatar, went to grab Albion to learn about it. So with much surprise I had someone half of my age recanting the plot of Albion to me. This was a genuine delight. I hope this happens again, and again. With people a quarter of my age, telling me about my favourite games, games which I was passionate about, games which I loved. Telling me about how they discovered them and loved them.
There’s something amazing about that.
A game is different than a film due to reasons of exploration and discovery, discovery leading to various rewards. You can play a game multiple times and each time you can eke out little elements that you didn’t find before. And you can remember strange things which weren’t necessarily implied by the game. One example was how I remember being fond of this one old lady because she was so kind, and she always gave me things, and wanted to see me succeed. Part of this was true, she was kind, but part of it was that BlueByte had a bug where they set her random number for providing healing potions too high, so she did it more often than they expected she would.
It’s interesting relating things like this with young people who’ve played the game recently, perhaps even as recently as just a year ago. It’s incredible. There’s something indescribable about it that my love of games is rooted in. I love books, I love films, but it’s games that tend to turn me into the storyteller. Just like I am now.
That’s what I’m scared of losing.
I’ve never been the biggest fan of the STALKER games, it strikes too close to reality for me, and there’s something about that that sets off things in my mind and makes it tremendously difficult for me to play. If there’s violence, I prefer it being silly and as detached from reality as possible. The more detached something is, the more palatable I find it. So unlike a lot of people, I actually do prefer console approaches to some things. (HERETIC, I know.)
But still, I know that there are a lot of people who like STALKER. And a lot of people who’ll want to do this. Who’ll want to drag it out years from now, who’ll want to introduce it to young ones, who’ll want to compare and contrast notes with younger minds, who’ll want to compare the game as an older mind versus a younger one, when replaying the game themselves. But if these guys did do something like this with STALKER 2, then that becomes impossible.
And I think it sets a bothersome precedent.
I’m not going to talk slippery slope stuff here, because that’s idiot food, it’s a fallacy that I don’t like. But I can’t ignore the nagging feeling that other publishers will look at this and try to do it. This is why I’m for reasonable DRM. I really wish we could do things like pointing at stuff we can crack–like Steam–and saying that this is acceptable. We’ll accept this. But go no further. It seems the louder we scream for the removal of all DRM, the crazier publishers get.
I worry about where this will all end.
And I worry that, hey, there are going to be some real casualties here, games that I won’t be able to enjoy down the road, as I have with Albion. Will I be able to do that with a game that stores half of its content, its most important content, on a remote server? I don’t know. I accept the reality of that for a multiplayer game as just the way of things, because those games are often a little more shallow anyway, but with a single player game… I keep hoping I can archive those. For all of the aforementioned reasons.
09/10/2011 at 03:25 jizazmi says:
After pirating all the others Stalkers.. I guess I can buy one of them. Hope they remove this so I can easily download it on day one.
09/10/2011 at 19:36 MellowKrogoth says:
If you don’t pay for them… I guess you don’t want the game series to survive then? Consciously or not you’re pushing them towards consoles or online-only DRM. Not to mention that, the more money they get, the more beautiful and bug-free they can make the next game by hiring more/better artists and programmers.
Save up some money and put it where you heart is: there aren’t many great developers making AAA PC-exclusive games left. (Hint: if you can afford the graphics card necessary to play the game, you can afford the game.)
09/10/2011 at 03:40 LostViking says:
Nooooo!
I have taken an oath never to buy an always-on DRM game, but I just love the Stalker series too much.
Hopefully they fudge it up trying to adapt Stalker 2 for the console crowd, and I can keep my oath without having to sacrifice a great gaming experience.
09/10/2011 at 04:00 Stillquest says:
.
09/10/2011 at 04:43 JKjoker says:
maybe if they focused on making their paying customers happy instead of focusing on making their nonpaying customers angry they would actually get MORE sales… isnt that what they want in the end ? getting more mokey ? eh? eh?
09/10/2011 at 07:08 Juan Carlo says:
I hate this as much as anyone (and yes, I think it will be a technical nightmare and could very well backfire), but if there’s any developer who I can see might actually need to do this it’s the Stalker developers. Pirating is 100 times worse in former soviet union countries than it is in the USA, England, and most of Europe. So I can actually see why a Russian developer might want to take draconian measures.
That said, I personally hope this fails. Developers are taking baby steps with DRM–easing us into worse and worse situations.
If people don’t fight and refuse to buy games with DRM (and buy games without) in 10 years all games will be sold in the cloud model–where they are streamed to your computer and you can’t download any actual code.
09/10/2011 at 08:39 Sabre_Justice says:
I’ve had to have Steam in Offline Mode (after finally getting the damn thing to work) for weeks now because of my connection being crippled due to bandwitch caps that EVERY ISP in my country has.
I won’t buy this game, because I can’t guarantee that I’ll even be able to play it. And seriously, after all the uproar about Ubisoft’s DRM, what made them think this was a good idea?
09/10/2011 at 09:40 kud13 says:
ok, the way i read it, part of the content will be online. and as you progress through the game it’ll load from the server.
so, essentially the retail version will contain the engine,and a few levels. kinda like a demo. since they are saying that they are interested in having people buy a pirate copy,and then seeing how limited it is, spend money on the actual game.
hrrm, we’ll see how effective that’ll be.
09/10/2011 at 09:44 kud13 says:
i’m 95% sure this DRM business will end badly for my beloved GSC.
S.T.A.L.K.ER. became a cult classic in the CIS countries due to its mods. if you make part of your content on-line, this effectively means no mods.
they’ll lose a huge part of the community with that.
add tot hat that they are not sure if they’ll keep multiplayer int he game. and they don’t intend to run a beta test.
sigh, the dreaded “western marketing” virus has got them,
09/10/2011 at 11:54 Lulzbat says:
This is why i pirate everything the greedy fucks only think about money.
Every company is like this why give money to someone who in the end will backstab you ?
The last game i bought was crysis after that abomination called crysis 2 i wont be buying anymore games instead now i pirate everything i see.
And if they think they will get rid of me by releasing the games on consoles only they probably dont know that i also have a playstation 3 and a 360 which i also pirate everything on them infact im currently downloading dark souls.
Go take a look at rage glad i pirated that piece of shit.
An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth.
09/10/2011 at 12:52 dogsolitude_uk says:
Nice one mate. This is why we get that kind of treatment from companies, who hold chaps like you up as a shiny example of why we *need* always-online, ‘uncrackable’ DRM. You’re just giving them an excuse!
“An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth.”
That way the whole world will soon be blind and toothless.
09/10/2011 at 13:51 coldvvvave says:
You just got trolled, welcome to internet.
09/10/2011 at 15:47 dogsolitude_uk says:
Apologies, but I know a few people who do, genuinely, carry that attitude!
09/10/2011 at 12:16 fitzroy_doll says:
This entire story may not be correct:
http://twitter.com/#!/gscstalker/status/122743225600589824
“Stalkers I will confirm the legitimacy of the drm “news” next week. Suffice it to say this is the first I’ve heard about it. So relax :)”
09/10/2011 at 15:01 coldvvvave says:
So, their CEO had no idea what he was talking about? Well, that happens quite often. But we’ll see.
09/10/2011 at 13:20 MadMinstrel says:
I bought all three of the previous games. Is this what I get for my loyalty?
09/10/2011 at 15:12 Jim Rossignol says:
“Nobody should be out there making $10m games which require 2 million sales just to break even in the first place, piracy or no piracy”
Eh? Why not?
14/10/2011 at 04:03 oatmeal says:
Count me out. Let’s see, that means no Diablo III, no STALKER 2 and no Rage. I would be surprised if Skyrim doesn’t make the same list.