By Jim Rossignol on February 18th, 2009 at 8:51 am.
[EDIT: Actual price for this is $14.95.] Exquisitely clever time-bending platformer Braid will finally see a PC release on March 31st, and the $15 pre-orders are up on Stardock’s DRM-free digi-delivery system, Impulse. Blow says: “”I’ve signed the game with 3 different online distributors. One of them, Impulse, has already announced. The other two haven’t put out their press releases yet, so I don’t want to jump the gun saying who it is.” (Thanks, Paul.)
The IGF winner is one of the most heavily praised indie games of the past few years, and has caused many people to say “beeeeoooowwwoop!” in earnest. Creator Jonathan Blow gave a memorable keynote at FreePlay in 2007, in which he both talked up Braid and described the reward scheme of World Of Warcraft as “unethical”. Braid trailer after the click.
18/02/2009 at 09:05 Heliocentric says:
Any hints of a demo? Did 360s get one? Hmm, I’ll likely get it, but i can’t trust 360 reviewers(see any hyped game review ever), guess i need a review or a demo to drop $20. Thats like four hundred english (god saves the) queens pounds.
18/02/2009 at 09:06 Feet says:
Having played and completed it on that there three hundred and wotsit machine, I can exclusively reveal to the RPS readers, this:
It is great. And quite hard. But great as well.
18/02/2009 at 09:10 Cedge says:
If I could somehow go back in time and prevent myself from ever reading anything Blow has ever said, then I might want to buy it. As it stands though, I can’t bring myself to throw any money in the direction of someone of his level of pretentiousness.
Game does look pretty neat, though.
18/02/2009 at 09:12 Heliocentric says:
You’ve played on a 360 so you’ll have 360 radiation on you. It makes you incapable of giving quite good games less than 9/10. I’m sorry i’ll need someone who wont light up a bulb held between their teeth!
18/02/2009 at 09:14 Feet says:
Also: what took some damned long? It’s been out on XBLA for over 6 months, it was supposed to be a game for 2008 on PC! Tsk.
Furthermore it’s good to see Impulse getting the digital distribution rights for such a high profile game, if it makes more people create and install Impulse then that’s awesome, I don’t really like the seeming monopoly that Valve seem to be getting with Steam. Competition is good, plus I love Stardock and all they do.
18/02/2009 at 09:14 Zombie Konky Dong says:
Braid is good, but not $20 good.
18/02/2009 at 09:17 Tei says:
What Heliocentric say is true. People that has played 360 has like radiation or something, are somewhat biased to think a game that is good on 360 is “good” itself, and will be fun on the PC. But Gears of War and Halo are deming the oposite, games that are practically “GODS” on the 360 are like anyon and generic boring garbage on the PC. This one may be fun, but there are zillions of platform games on the PC, *AND* emulators. I can play Ocarine of time on my PC. What is better use of my time of money, download Ocarine of Time, or buy Braid on impulse.
Another thing, I want my digital downloads to “consolidate”, so I want to buy this.. on Steam. There are news about that? will this game show in Steam?
18/02/2009 at 09:23 Feet says:
You’re a tool of Valve, Tei! Impulse is great! It works, it’s reliable, it’s safe and it doesn’t sap your machines resource like the Steam client, it’s more streamlined than Steam.
Why does everyone insist they’ll only buy something digitally if it appears on Steam? What logic are they following to make such statements. I love Steam, I buy many games from it, but I’m not loyal to the brand nor do I think it’s the only viable choice for downloads.
I agree I don’t want to have loads of different digital distribution clients running on my PC, but surely there’s room for more than one on your machine?
18/02/2009 at 09:23 Bobsy says:
Oh for cock’s sake. Of course it’s worth $20. Easily.
18/02/2009 at 09:26 Feet says:
If you don’t own it on the console already it’s definately worth $20.
18/02/2009 at 09:27 Seniath says:
My word, we are feisty today aren’t we?
18/02/2009 at 09:38 Tei says:
@Feet:
Very long reasons why I like Steam more:
[ too long to write here ]
TL;DR version:
Well.. I like having all my games on the same launcher.
As a “game launcher”, I like more Steam.
Short version:
And Steam feels like a solid application. The Impulse browser feels like a re-skined IE6 with fixed tabs. And is strangely poorly designed, that is strange for Stardock, the kings of UI Eyecandy. Maybe too much eyecandy and not enough good design. But ..hee!.. I like Windows 2000 more as a gamming platform than XP.
Another reason is that, to this date, Valve has never lied to me. Everything that that I need work as advertised and promised.
Of course, I have ready a helicopter to escape, in case Valve consolize or EA-ize or Ubisoft-ize or Microsoft-ize. But to this date are Ok-ish developpers.
I don’t know Stardock other than the byzarre re-skin tool, that has been there on the internet on some computers for ages. And I know Stardock for Sins, that is a good game (maybe not epic enough to me). But other than that, I don’t know Stardock. I have read lots of messages from Valve devs on the half-life sdk official list. I kind of think I undertand “Valve”. I have read some post from Stardock people on the Demigod official forum, and I think I may undertand “Stardock”, but somewhat I think what can be good for Stardock maybe is not what is good for me. Maybe If I learn more about Stardock, I will like then …less. I know If I know more about Valve, I will like then …more.
And steam work seamlessly on my computer. It may take 8MB of ram, maybe, or something. But my computer has 4096 MB of RAM (where only ~3000 is available, because the stupid windows design).
I have analize somewhat how Steam works, and it also interesting, because can be hacked, …this is like the console that some FPS games have. Theres a single interface, but another complex interface inside, and secret things. On comparation Impulse is dull, as work with a IE6 engine, and that is… It just browse some web server on stardock. Theres no hacking to be made. Not interesting one.. [this continue for hours ]
18/02/2009 at 09:38 teo says:
Steam ‘saps’ your resources? Have you ever even used it?
It barely uses any resources at all
This was 15$ on consoles I’m not paying 20$
18/02/2009 at 09:41 teo says:
If you only have 3 out of 4 GB of RAM available it’s not because of ‘stupid’ windows design it’s you not understanding computers
18/02/2009 at 09:44 Heliocentric says:
I have like 50 items in my steam list (a few demos i means to try, and xcom is like 6 titles the ship is 3)
Steam is getting mega fucking slow, so much so if i set it to run at startup on my low end pc it hyjacks my pc for 2 minutes. And its not much better if i boot it after launch.
My dual core pc is fine. But the advantage of not having to worry about physical media is steadily being melted away.
Maybe i need less titles on steam downloaded, but thats how i roll. All my games at my finger tips ready to play a 500gb drive 80% full of game installs. Stardock takes ages to authenticate my titles, but i don’t need to do that to play. I’m by no means a crazy boycotter though.
18/02/2009 at 09:48 Senethro says:
Heh, a long startup with 400GB of games might have something to do with it.
If I get Braid from impulse it’ll be the 4th DD service I’ve used.
18/02/2009 at 09:55 FunkyB says:
@Tei:
http://blogs.msdn.com/hiltonl/archive/2007/04/13/the-3gb-not-4gb-ram-problem.aspx
tl;dr version: live with it, it’s not windows’ fault.
18/02/2009 at 10:00 Ian says:
I’ll probably pre-order it because I feel I ought to play it, but it seems a bit rubbish that we’re paying more after having waited for ages to even get the damn thing.
18/02/2009 at 10:04 dbdkmezz says:
HURRRAAAAAHHH!
Played the first hour and a half on a friends Xbox and the whole experience was pure joy! Will be great to have a chance to finally sink my teeth into this game and see if Blow can make games as well as he can talk. I’m completely sold on his idea that the rules of games have meaning and games so far have pretty much been ignoring them, resulting in doing the equivalent of a film “playing clown music at a funeral” (Blow’s analogy). So will be great to see how he puts all his thought into practice.
But even if all he says is completely and utterly wrong this game will still be worth $20. The game is just so much fun to play, that first hour and a half was definitely my most joyous game experience of last year.
BUY! BUY! BUY!
18/02/2009 at 10:12 bansama says:
If it turns up on Steam or GamesGate, I’ll give it a look at. But I’m not touching Impulse. Everything about their site just screams “Ugh!” at me, so there’s no way I could make it to the purchase button or see myself ever installing their client.
Game does look mildly interesting though.
18/02/2009 at 10:22 Dr_demento says:
Braid is an incredible, amazing computer game which everyone should play. Genius art style, exceptional music, and phenomenal gameplay – with only a very rare few problems (2doors1key being a particular failure) and a depressingly postmodernist epilogue which ought to have been cut.
That said, it was £12 on the 360 which was perhaps a little on the high side, so given the current exchange rates $20=£14.13 which is more slightly high. Still worth it. Hey, and it doesn’t have DRM!
Of course, it doesn’t have a hi-res texture pack, expanded new levels, a new multiplayer mode and new mission types, so clearly it’s been DUMMED DOWN FOR CONSOL TARDS LOL and doesn’t deserve a place on the PC.
18/02/2009 at 10:25 Tei says:
(offtopic: yes, I was wrong. Is not windows to be blamed here.
Anyway, here is the bit about it:
– - –
In the 32-bit Windows world, each application has its own “virtual” 4GB memory space. (This means that each application functions as if it has a flat 4GB of memory, and the system’s memory manager keeps track of memory mapping, which applications are using which memory, page file management, and so on.)
This 4GB space is evenly divided into two parts, with 2GB dedicated for kernel usage, and 2GB left for application usage. Each application gets its own 2GB, but all applications have to share the same 2GB kernel space.
– - –
With this limits:
a) aplications are limited to 2 GB or memory
b) servers are limited to 2 GB of kernel memory for all processes )
I have 4GB of RAM, and my games are limited to 2 GB.
Anyway all this is moot point, because there are good 64 bits versions of Windows. [info])
18/02/2009 at 10:35 dbdkmezz says:
By the way, it isn’t an Impulse exclusive, there are two other (unannounced) digital distributors. And it may be here even earlier than the end of March. :)
http://braid-game.com/news/?p=392#comment-4558
18/02/2009 at 10:43 qrter says:
Steam checks for ‘new content’ for installed games when it starts up, doesn’t it? If you have 50+ games installed, that’ll take a little while, yes.
Personally I only have a few games at a time installed because to me that’s the great thing about a platform like Steam – if I get the urge to want to play another (uninstalled) game from my list I can quite easily reinstall/redownload it. It took away the worry about whether to leave something installed or not, is what I’m saying.
18/02/2009 at 10:56 QuantumGravitas says:
Personally I only have a few games at a time installed because to me that’s the great thing about owning the CDs – if I get the urge to want to play another (uninstalled) game from my list I can quite easily reach back to my shiny CD/reinstall it. It takes away the worry about whether to have another client running just to play games, is all I’m saying.
18/02/2009 at 11:09 subedii says:
Is Impulse actually DRM free? I thought it wasn’t, even if you restore the game from backup, you still need to verify with Stardock’s servers before you can play don’t you? It’s not too much different from Steam except that Steam checks every time you use the program, not just the first time.
I mean it’s not a huge thing or anything (don’t want to turn this into a DRM debate), but I just wanted to clarify that this is something different compared to say, what GOG or 2D Boy does.
Unless I’m mistaken, in which case someone please correct me.
18/02/2009 at 11:14 drewski says:
Impulse may be DRM free (lulz) but I still need to be online to “authenticate” and update my software, don’t I? Oh wow I can play unupdated single player without phoning home! Gosh you’re so generous!
Wooo DRM wooo!
Fail.
Which is a shame, because if they release this at a decent price on a decent distribution platform, I’ll be all over it like a rash.
18/02/2009 at 11:42 Wedge says:
Why would anyone have a problem with having to be online and authenticated to update their game? Wouldn’t you have to be online to get an update anyways? That’s the dumbest complaint I have ever heard.
And this took forever to come to PC because Blow is a giant fucking blowhard. The game was made for PC originally, and that’s what the first reviewers actually played the game on. However he was hyper paranoid about piracy and believed the game would only sell 5k copies tops on PC, so he delayed it, then delayed it some more, then delayed it again. And now he’s finally coming out and releasing it half a year later for MORE than it costs on the 360? GTFO.
18/02/2009 at 11:46 Colthor says:
Impulse seems to install an unencrypted, unfiddled-with copy of the game to your machine, so I imagine with most games you can just move that around or whatever as you like, as you would with an installed-from-disk copy.
But the best thing is not having to load the client to play games. Steam’s pretty quick on my desktop, but on my laptop, even with only a few games downloaded, it takes such a long time to start that you’ve lost interest by the time the game’s running.
Not that Impulse doesn’t have its niggles – the funny CD-key entering thing, say – but overall, I think I like GoG more than Impulse more than Steam.
If Steam didn’t need to be launched to play Steam games, and Steam(works) games on disk would work (single-player, unpatched, that’s fine) without Steam or an internet connection I’d probably like it a bit more than Impulse.
18/02/2009 at 11:47 drewski says:
The dumbest comment you ever heard? Take it you didn’t notice the TARP bill, then…
It may surprise you to learn this, but there are things called “self executable files” in which games companies can include “patches” that don’t require you to be online to install! You can patch a game without being online! You don’t need to rely on a third party service a) being solvent b) being up to date c) being competant to have games which run!
It’s amazing technology!
18/02/2009 at 11:56 Still annoyed says:
I’m glad I don’t have to pay €20 for this on Steam, then.
18/02/2009 at 12:01 Thiefsie says:
Great game, but a little expensive on PC. I’m happy to have won it for free on the xbox.
Well worth $10 – but I don’t know about double.
18/02/2009 at 12:16 Neut says:
Game of the year last year for me, enjoyed it more than anything on the PC or the 360, so much so that I’ve added it to The List. It now sits proudly in my mind alongside Torment, System Shock, Deus Ex and Shadow of the Colossus, among others, as great moments in gaming and quick name drops when I’m trying to sound pretentious about Games As Art :O
Glad its finally coming to the PC, everyone should definitely give it a try if they haven’t yet. There was a demo on the 360 and it’s actually what convinced me to spend money on those ridiculous microsoft points so I could get the full game.
18/02/2009 at 12:16 nabeel says:
Really happy to hear this news finally, though I wonder if I will wait for it to come on Steam, if Blow is true to his promise.
18/02/2009 at 12:17 Dracko says:
Oh boy! 360 hate! Awesome!
18/02/2009 at 12:32 Oak says:
Is that a chocolate dinosaur?
18/02/2009 at 12:42 cyrenic says:
Anyone have any idea why the price was upped $5? Surely Steam (I’m assuming we’ll see it on there) and Impulse take less of a cut than Microsoft.
18/02/2009 at 12:43 Caiman says:
Braid is not just a classic of the genre, but a brilliant deconstruction of it. If you don’t want to buy it because you think its author is pretentious, or because it was released on a console first, then you’re a bit daft. Have fun living in daft land!
18/02/2009 at 12:56 Okami says:
Stupid Impulse fanboys with their dumbed down Impulse games! Errr.. I mean.. Valve are evil..
No… wait.. it’s the consoles… they’re guilty of everything!
Your stupid Amiga is just a gaming machine, no real computer, I can make music on my Atari ST!
Sorry, what was this article about?
18/02/2009 at 12:59 PHeMoX says:
“Of course, it doesn’t have a hi-res texture pack, expanded new levels, a new multiplayer mode and new mission types, so clearly it’s been DUMMED DOWN FOR CONSOL TARDS LOL and doesn’t deserve a place on the PC.”
I am pretty sure you’ve never played Braid then. It’s certainly not ‘dumbed’ down at all.
18/02/2009 at 13:04 PHeMoX says:
Not as long as the pricing continues to be on par with retail stores;
“I agree I don’t want to have loads of different digital distribution clients running on my PC, but surely there’s room for more than one on your machine?”
I mean come on, why pay 50$ for GTA IV on Steam when buying it retail is 45$ and you’ll get a neat DVD + manual etc. For some strange reason Valve decided to not calculate exchange rates into their pricing anymore, so we folks from Europe actually pay about 20% more on average. That s ucks and there’s really no way I am going to pay >30$ for a game anymore.
18/02/2009 at 13:11 Steve says:
Probably to protect against us PC gamers, all of whom are obviously filthy pirates.
18/02/2009 at 13:12 Naurgul says:
I agree with Okami. >.>
But seriously now, I’ll probably get it if it gets released on Steam. I’ll also possibly get it if it doesn’t gets released on Steam, although having to install yet another such digital distribution platform would be annoying.
18/02/2009 at 13:14 Tei says:
About the anti-anti-console comments I can make a comment like this one:
“”HOW THIS WORK NOW:
You have a good game for the PC?
DONT RELEASE YET!.. release on the console, more units sell. ( [reference] Braid, Dragon Age, etc..)
Do you have a patch for your multisystem game?
Delay it on the PC, so Microsoft/Sony validate it for the consoles. And make ‘simultaneous’ release. ([reference] L4D DLC )
Do you have a poor boring generic game for the console?
Delay the production of a PC port, and make the port as poorly ported as posible. Adds tons of DRM (like GFW). Add more DRM ( like Social Club), and on top of that, add more DRM ( Steam ). ( [reference] GTAIV, Fallout 3 DLC, etc..)”"
…but I will not make it.
18/02/2009 at 13:23 Ginger Yellow says:
This one may be fun, but there are zillions of platform games on the PC, *AND* emulators
Braid is not a platform game. Really it’s not. The first world may seem a bit like one, because it’s simple and a fairly overt homage to the Mario games, but Braid is a puzzle game through and through. It’s as much of a platformer as Portal is an FPS.
And seriously, if you haven’t got a 360, buy this game on PC. It’s wonderful. The puzzles are ingenious, the level design sometimes makes you jump for joy, and the basic time mechanic takes out so much of the potential frustration. It’s not perfect, but it’s utterly, utterly brilliant.
18/02/2009 at 13:25 Paul Moloney says:
“I mean come on, why pay 50$ for GTA IV on Steam when buying it retail is 45$”
In Euro, the difference is even more extreme: €50 on Steam vs €27 online retail (from Asda).
Steam is great for the occasional weekend offers and indie games, but ludicrous for full-price new releases.
P.
18/02/2009 at 13:27 Senethro says:
Valve doesn’t set prices for games not their own. Each regions has different prices. If you’re seeing dollar amounts but don’t live in the US something is wrong.
18/02/2009 at 13:34 Tworak says:
$5 more? fuuuuck youuuu
That’s also why it’s not going to be on steam. Because it’s more expensive than xbl. same deal with that other game, ehh some shitty HD remake.
I hope it get pirated to fuck, lols.
18/02/2009 at 13:49 Feet says:
I forgot how awesome the music was for this game…
18/02/2009 at 13:58 UncleLou says:
“If I could somehow go back in time and prevent myself from ever reading anything Blow has ever said, then I might want to buy it. As it stands though, I can’t bring myself to throw any money in the direction of someone of his level of pretentiousness.”
Does this really matter to you?What do I know how many writers, directors, actors and musicians whose works I love are or aren’t complete tossers. For me it’s the work that counts, not the person behind it. I would admittedly make an exception if I knew someone used the money he earns with his works for something I fundamentally disagree with, but silly personal opinions and nonsense don’t really bother me.
What I find more irksome is a higher price after months of delays (and the website bullshitting me about a “2008″ release till the end of December).
18/02/2009 at 14:06 Pags says:
Soulja Boy’s review was pretty good wasn’t it?
18/02/2009 at 14:27 obo says:
@Tei: About Steam, from Blow himself in December:
He also confirms there that GFW:Live is not getting Braid.
If Derek Yu puts out Spelunky v1.0 for free before Jonathan Blow can release a $20 game that was practically finished for PC back in 2006, I’m giving Derek Yu at least $20 and pirating Braid. God knows Derek deserves it for his work, and Blow already has plenty of money from pulling a Bungie and giving Microsoft a console exclusive out of a game designed for the PC from the start.
Hell, at least I can play Spelunky on my Media Center. A GeForce 6800 is apparently an insufficient GPU for Braid, so there’s no way I’m getting by with anything I own but my main gaming rig.
The only hope Braid had of having an serious impact on PC was if it shipped with a level editor in 3Q 2008. Blow’s already gone on the record saying Braid doesn’t need more levels and won’t ever have an official level editor. I can’t wait for the postmortem that explains what happened between his level-, plot- and feature-complete PC demos in 2006 and the final PC release in 2009.
18/02/2009 at 14:38 UncleLou says:
“God knows Derek deserves it for his work, and Blow already has plenty of money from pulling a Bungie and giving Microsoft a console exclusive out of a game designed for the PC from the start.”
Bit too much hubris for my liking. If I see reasons not to buy it, I won’t, but I’ll man up enough to not play it, either. That you think you can decide if he has already made enough money strikes me as quite odd.
18/02/2009 at 14:55 Okami says:
You really shouldn’t run around stating that you’re going to pirate a game in the RPS comments section. It’s not going to make you very popular around here…
18/02/2009 at 15:00 Pags says:
@Okami: Well, not if the game in question is an indie game anyway. Fallout 3, Far Cry 2 or GTA 4 on the other hand…
18/02/2009 at 15:04 AndrewC says:
Is it just me or is the ‘If it so much as looked at a console it is evil’ attitude getting stronger round here?
18/02/2009 at 15:46 Joseph says:
Hurray. I get to see what all the fuss is about. I’ll be getting it, to investigate aforementioned fuss, but I’m very poor. I might have to download it for free. If I want to eat AND play, anyway. Interesting keynote speech indeed… what a guy.
P.S.
You saw how far I rewinded that shit?!
And there ain’t no point to the game.
18/02/2009 at 15:48 dhex says:
platform tribalism.
also those motherfucking consoles stole my motherfucking lean! motherfuckers!
18/02/2009 at 15:52 obo says:
My only interest in Braid on PC is in level editing, which Blow won’t support. I already own it for 360, and I’m not buying it again, especially since it’s inexplicably more expensive on PC while lacking any new content, with system requirements that put it over either of my laptops.
Perhaps a better thing to say is that Blow already has enough of my money – though considering the relative quality of the PC product he’s dead set on producing, I’m happy to stand by my statement that he has earned enough from the work he put into the 360 version to warrant not getting much for the lack thereof into making the PC version worth the same amount.
And considering his views on level editing and Braid, I don’t think he’d even consider that I’d be playing his game if I modify it from his vision.
This isn’t about the console being evil. It’s about Blow sitting on a finished game, still manipulating the hype engines to get people all frothy to throw money at him.
18/02/2009 at 15:56 Arnulf says:
I can disagree with Blow.
But I can still like his game.
And buy it.
The art (by David Hellman) alone is worth $20.
Considering buying it again for my PC… but probably won’t.
My Xb360 copy is enough for me.
For now.
Still need to get this blasted full speed run achievement.
18/02/2009 at 16:05 unique_identifier says:
if you’re so stubborn as to let complaints about game delivery systems get in the way of playing this gem of a game, it’s a pity.
i borrowed a friend’s xbo, transformed my hard earned cash into imaginary microsoft currency, and then spent some of that to buy braid, which i finished in five hours. no regrets.
@ obo: i think they made the game beautiful, amongst other things: href=”http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3753/the_art_of_braid_creating_a_.php
18/02/2009 at 16:17 Candid_Man says:
Many months later and a 20$ price tag? No thanks.
Money is scarce and Blow is [] for having delayed and overpriced his piece on PC – to no avail as far as I’m concerned, since I won’t be playing it.
Happy to hear that many here won’t be indulging Blow’s bungieness. Sorry for those that actually defend Braid, but there’s more to a game product than artistic content as of late: there’s the technical context, that is, port quality, release date, pricing and protection scheme. If PC gamers want to see their preferred platform regain some of its earlier shine and preeminence, they have to start making demands, and start taking into account the technical aspect of the so-called “ports” they so obligingly spend their money on. Maybe Blow’s piece is a real gem of game design (and not even a port, as it’s being said), but the actual details of its release on PC mark it as another console-afterthought, some late-night humping of the PC crowd for their remaining good will. I don’t know about you, but it smells all the more so like a 2008 release.
In short, no game company will take our interest into account if we don’t get more *gasp* political about the games we buy.
Edited
18/02/2009 at 16:24 AndrewC says:
There’s a line where political demands turn into entitled whining, and it’s probably where Blow gets called a cunt.
18/02/2009 at 16:25 obo says:
Arnulf, UI: Yes, David’s art is great. It’s a shame the Lesson is Learned shop hasn’t come back yet, as I’d like some posters. The music is wonderful and the artists are easy to find, as well.
Candid_Man: Don’t you mean it looks like a “sometime in the first quarter of 2007” release?
18/02/2009 at 16:37 MrDeVil_909 says:
Honestly. 6 months ago I cared about Braid. 3 months ago I cared about Braid.
Now? Forget about it. If it appears on Steam, on one of their 75% off sales I may get it. But paying $20 for an old platform game doesn’t appeal.
18/02/2009 at 16:40 Candid_Man says:
So I guess he’s Not [] for having delayed and overpriced his piece on PC, that it?
For having surfed the earlier wave of indie gaming on PC’s actual Inter-net to get his name out and then bailing out on a more strictly controlled and profitable platform? For announcing here and there plausible plans of release on the platform he made his game on, then reneging on them and ending up arguing some great line of self-fulfilling prophesying bullshit about piracy when his actual release would have all the necessary details to warrant any really “entitled” PC brat to pirate the damn thing?
Because this thing will get pirated, believe you me. And you can be sure the stated rationale will be two times out of three: “he delayed and overpriced it compared to the consoles.” And PC will once again suffer the finger-waggling of being a rotten, piracy-riddled market. And Blow will delay – or maybe forsake entirely – the PC release of his next game. And so it goes. No [] hereabout.
Edited
18/02/2009 at 16:42 Ian says:
I’m trying not to allow the release delay diminish my giving-a-shit about Braid because I thought at the time it looked plenty splendid. But if this is indeed true that we’re paying the extra for it (even if it’s not much) it seems a bit off, and I’m not putting another content delivery thingmajig on my PC. I think I’ll just sit and hope Steam gets it.
18/02/2009 at 17:00 Tei says:
I think I am going to buy this “2008 award winning XBOX 360 exclusive” based on the comments of tons of people is a great game.
18/02/2009 at 17:01 shinygerbil says:
Holy crap, looks like this perfectly ordinary RPS comments thread got somehow mixed in with a YouTube comments thread.
18/02/2009 at 17:01 Rich_P says:
Candid, that still doesn’t justify pirating the game.
My guess is that the people who’re interested in Braid have already played it on the Xbox. Those who were holding out for a comparatively-priced PC release might instead buy the cheaper Live version. Sloppy seconds + game whose hype has died down = fewer sales.
But I understand why PC gamers are frustrated these days: delayed releases, shoddy ports, accusations of being thieving bastards. Personally, I refuse to pay full price for obvious console ports (not referring to Braid here). I only spend that kind of money on games made for the PC. I also find it odd that so many people bitch about console ports, but still pay $40-50 for them anyway.
18/02/2009 at 17:07 Ginger Yellow says:
And if we refuse to buy great, risk taking games for political reasons, we won’t get great, risk taking games. I’ve got no interest in defending or attacking Blow’s actions, and I certainly think the differential pricing is wrong, but you’re only hurting yourself if you refuse to play the game at all (by all means don’t buy it again if you have a 360).
First of all, it’s not a goddamn platform game. Second, it’s only old in the sense that it came out on another platform game first, like, say, Mass Effect or a large number of other games. Yes it sucks, but it’s not like the world of puzzle games has moved on in the last 6 months and Braid’s gameplay/art/music/narrative feel irredeemably stale. In fact they’re still far ahead of pretty much the entire competition on any platform. Portal’s about the only game in its genre that can hold a candle to it, and that’s pretty high praise.
18/02/2009 at 17:17 Ian says:
Partial quote from the official Braid website front page:
“Braid is a platform game”
Another partial quote from the official Braid website front page:
“Braid is a puzzle platformer”
18/02/2009 at 17:22 Smurfy says:
I’ll buy it if it’s on Steam.
18/02/2009 at 17:35 James Tao says:
“Is it just me or is the ‘If it so much as looked at a console it is evil’ attitude getting stronger round here?”
Definitely not just you.
18/02/2009 at 17:45 Candid_Man says:
@Rich_P
Wasn’t justifying anything, only laying out possible rationale. Otherwise, with you on the port-jobs.
@Ginger Yellow
I disagree that all great, risk taking games should be supported with equal zeal (and money). As I said earlier, the state of the gaming industry forces us into taking account of stuff that common sense would dictate are outside the experience of gaming proper, but are now sadly all-too-present (and sore) elements for PC gamers: asymmetrical release dates and pricing, invasive protection schemes, frankly insulting port-jobs, etc.
To make do as if nothing of these was relevant ensures that travesties like the reviewer’s community reaction to GTA IV become the norm, while the industry as a whole sinks further and further into a complete disregard of the PC gaming market (except as peripheral testing ground for ad-based formats, DRMs and console-promoting bloatwares).
A great, risk taking game is now also a technical matter. In this regard, Braid fails hard. I’ll pass.
18/02/2009 at 17:52 Francis L says:
Impulse is ok, but the whole back-end system is pretty clunky. When you buy a game, they ask for an email address, which gets sent a serial key (and also gets signed up for a newsletter, without so much as a pre-checked box you can uncheck, also I have been unable to get them to unsubscribe me from it, so far). When you then download and install Impulse, you have to create an(other) account for Impulse. If you use the same email address, it automatically knows your serial numbers, otherwise I believe you have to type them in. The UI is pretty clunky and half-devoted to pushing lite versions of Stardock’s “business” software. It also wraps IE (like Steam), so I have to click away internet zone permissions warnings everytime a tab opens with web content.
It isn’t a GOG-style, DRM-free store; games must be installed through Impulse, and Impulse does an authorization check when installing the game. Like Steam, there’s no way of making a backup which doesn’t require an internet connection and it also requires Stardock to still be operating Impulse when you reinstall.
The install process is pretty clunky, with the interface locking up for extended periods, and requiring 2-3x the final installed size available on your hard drive, to allow for a downloaded copy, an extracted copy, and an installed copy, before it (sometimes) cleans it all up. It’s also somewhat buggy; it took some registry hacking before the copy of GalCiv 2 it installed would run, because it was creating a key listing my language as “” which confused GalCiv 2; I believe this bug is now fixed in Impulse.
Like some 3rd party Steam games, it doesn’t add any Impulse-specific DRM to the game’s executables unless you use Impulse to launch the game (in which case you have to wait several seconds for it to login, like Steam, before your games are listed). An advantage is that it doesn’t create shortcuts pointing to Impulse for each game, but rather straight to the game’s executable, which would be a nice improvement to Steam, as many of those games can run without having to load up Steam.
Of course, an Impulse-installed game may have DRM of it’s own, but there’s nothing like Steamworks for integrating an Impulse authorization check into the game. Stardock doesn’t seem to have integrated even their own games’ activation with Impulse’s authorization checking system yet, instead running two separate authorization infrastructures side-by-side (the Stardock games I’ve tried through Impulse have required online activation only before running the first time, like Bioshock, Spore, or GTA IV’s activation).
18/02/2009 at 18:04 elle says:
It will very likely be on Steam. Jonathan Blow unofficially hinted to it back in December.
So it’ll be on Impluse, Steam and one other provider that’s probably not Games for Windows because Microsoft wants system sellers, and probably not GameFly or Big Fish because their money sucks. That leans toward Greenhouse or Direct2Drive, among others, for the third.
No Linux support. He also seems a little more amicable about a WiiWare port now than he was in December, but Wii and Mac ports would be farmed out to 3rd parties. Still nothing new on potential PS3 or portable ports; even farmed-out portable ports probably won’t get made because of his preferences for high-res art at 60 FPS.
Jonathan insists on keeping the high-res art, background details and solid 60 FPS, because “the more random and un-cared-for your player experience is, the less it’s the case that what you’re playing is really Braid.”
Yes, the system requirements are admittedly steeper than you’d expect from a 2D platformer, and yes, especially when talking about system requirements, it’s a 2D platformer with puzzle elements. Please don’t launch another war over that horribly minor detail.
I do hope the PC version is hackable, as there’s just not enough levels to warrant $20 and neither is the overall “experience”. $15 on the 360 was hard to stomach. Don’t be surprised if March 31 isn’t a fixed date, either: “that could change in either direction!”
18/02/2009 at 18:05 Rich_P says:
Yeah, installing SupCom from Impulse was a PITA. Impulse was installed on my 250 GB game partition, but the temporary SupCom install files were downloaded to my 15 GB C partition. After the download finished, the client told me there wasn’t enough HD space to perform the extraction and install. Turns out you have to click on that huge blue button to open the options menu and change some install paths. The entire process was clunky.
To be sure, I adore Stardock and prefer Impulse’s offline mode to Steam’s, but I’m not in a rush to use Impulse again.
Given that, I think the only practical way to compete with Steam is by ditching the client completely. Just admit that Steam won the client “war” and PC gamers are reluctant to deal with multiple clients on their machine. I’m interested in Gamersgate and GOG precisely because they’re client-free. As it stands, Impulse is dangerously close to being too annoying for me to bother with it.
18/02/2009 at 18:40 Dr_demento says:
@ PHeMoX
I am pretty sure you’ve never played Braid then. It’s certainly not ‘dumbed’ down at all.
I’ve finished it twice. The last level is the best one, but the epilogue is definately a mistake. And no, it’s not dumbed down at all, much like any number of multiplatform games that come out on console and PC and have all their deficiencies blamed on those of us who prefer consoles for one reason or another.
I was being sarcastic, before… you thought I was seriously asking for a hi-res texture pack or a multiplayer mode? A multiplayer mode? In Braid?
18/02/2009 at 18:49 Markoff Chaney says:
I strive to support innovative as well as risk taking games when I can. I played the demo of Braid at a friend’s house on his 360 and it was very enjoyable, a nice mix of platforming and puzzling and it makes one think, something I love in games. As soon as my time with the demo was up, I put the controller down and looked forward to being able to play this game soon on my PC. Soon turned into Later turned into Next Year. That’s ok, I thought, I’ll still get to enjoy it on the PC and it will be more open with a great community used to tweaking and changing things, have a level editor and be cheaper, since it was the primary dev system too. Boy was I wrong…
The fact that the game is coming out on the system he was developing for at a price point higher than it came out on a console for a significant amount of time later without offering any stated improvements or changes from the cheaper version as well really irks me, and it seems I’m not alone. I, honestly, can’t justify to myself paying more for the same. I, also, can’t believe that Stardock (or either of the other 2 publishers) will take a bigger slice of the pie than Microsoft did.
I’d love to pick this game up, but it will have to wait until it is, at a bare minimum, competitively priced with the other IDENTICAL (other than the hardware on which it runs) product on the market. That’s just basic economics. The real issue is that there will be one other competitor for the platform that will offer it at a 0 dollar price point. After it sells more for free than it did for 20 dollars, we’ll have another media darling who already was given good will start railing against the evil PC and the evil Pirates that infest our waters. /sigh
18/02/2009 at 18:57 PHeMoX says:
I just thought you were saying the game was somehow too easy or something, perhaps even too casual for it to be taken serious by more hardcore gamers. The kiddie look is a tad deceiving (it’s definitely not an impossible game, but you’ll understand what I mean).
I should have caught your sarcasm but I must admit that I simply missed it. It happens. ;)
Ah, and nope, I do not expect or even want Braid to get a hi-res texture pack or multiplayer mode just for the PC version.
Creating that kind of exclusiveness just for the sake of exclusiveness itself never got me excited, regardless of which game. I don’t buy games on a specific platform just to get the ‘extra’ content. :P
18/02/2009 at 19:55 Ginger Yellow says:
“Yes, the system requirements are admittedly steeper than you’d expect from a 2D platformer, and yes, especially when talking about system requirements, it’s a 2D platformer with puzzle elements. Please don’t launch another war over that horribly minor detail.”
Sure, from a system requirements perspective, you can consider it a (remarkably beautiful) platformer. I’m just saying that gameplay-wise, apart from the first world, it’s completely wrong to think of it as a platformer, rather than a puzzle game playing with the idioms of platforming.
And I have to agree with Francis L that Impulse is bizarrely clunky. There’s no good reason why the key input couldn’t be done automatically. I love Stardock, but given an equivalently priced choice between buying a game on Steam and on Impulse, it’s Steam every time.
18/02/2009 at 20:02 Jonathan Blow says:
btw http://braid-game.com/news/?p=519
18/02/2009 at 20:09 AndrewC says:
So aren’t most Indie games $20 on release? Is that not simply industry standard that the game is following? Wasn’t one of the reasons given for the failure of Space Giraffe on the 360 that it was actually too cheap?
And why is mod support so important? It’s kind of the whole point of this game that all of its pieces – art, story, level design – fit together very deliberately to make a mutli-layered statement. It is very self-consciously being Games-As-Art, for better or ill, so changing it simply breaks it. It isn’t modular.
Level editors and all that are very good fun, but why do you think all games would benefit from them? Why should all games be the same?
And why does it’s length come into it? Is that argument based on the idea that more=better?
And this idea of the delay is based on six month’s wait from the 360. You are calling this game dead because of a six month delay?
Further, you are calling that delay proof positive of a deliberate and well organised campaign against the PC in an attempt to undermine it as a gaming platform, painting Blow as a moustache twirling villain.
This need for a vast conspiracy against the pc, coupled with using Bungie as a self-evident pejorative, the idea of sloppy-seconds and phrases like ‘console afterthought’ all suggest an extreme fanboyism, based on an irrational identification with one platform. Any percieved advantage to another platform is seen as a direct attack upon your own.
Perhaps you laughed at the reactions of the PS3 fanboys to the Killzone 2 reviews last week. This demonisation of Blow is an example of exactly the same behaviour.
18/02/2009 at 20:11 AndrewC says:
@ Johnathan Blow
Coward!
btw. your game is awesome.
18/02/2009 at 20:13 Candid_Man says:
Okay the “cunt” thing was uncalled for. Sorry about that. I am humbled.
Edit: AndrewC, I’ll get back to your misreadings of my (?) posts in a bit. I hate that conspiracy charge leveled at anything and everything the least bit critical and engaged.
18/02/2009 at 20:21 Pags says:
I’m just waiting for someone to twist Mr. Blow’s recent post into evidence of him trying to get as much out of the PC release as possible even though he doesn’t need it because the ‘XBLA version was nicely profitable’. Not that I’m going to be that guy, because that guy is an asshole. But I’m waiting nonetheless.
Either way, I think $20 is a small price to pay for this kind of enjoyment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nebKYFxXrLY
18/02/2009 at 20:24 Markoff Chaney says:
The main thing I enjoy about level editors, in both platformers and puzzlers (see what I did there?) is that they allow people to use the mechanics of the fundamental game to create more puzzles (whether cerebral or twitch based) to share and enjoy the experience. Do all games benefit from level editors? I can’t think of many that wouldn’t, honestly. I know user created content may not fit the artistic vision of the original game as a whole, and I respect that. I also don’t feel that level editors would detract from that same vision, and, in fact, would provide greater value and longevity of the game after the original game is completed.
Mr. Blow, thank you for sharing your comments, even in linked form. I’ll read them as soon as I get to a non-proxy environment that will allow me to do so.
18/02/2009 at 20:25 Pags says:
Bugger! Soulja Boy removed the video.
18/02/2009 at 20:28 Pags says:
All is not lost!
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/21446
This is my favourite video on the internet.
18/02/2009 at 20:29 A-Scale says:
I’d consider buying at $5. At 20 dollars, Blow can do just that.
18/02/2009 at 20:30 jsutcliffe says:
I really like Ginger_Yellow’s Braid/Portal comparison. I’d not come across it before, and it’s spot on.
I do think $20 is a little too steep for Braid though, and I dare say they’ll lose sales to piracy because of it. $15 would fare better.
18/02/2009 at 20:31 Ian says:
As one of the people who was being (unfairly, perhaps) whiney about the extra $5, I for one would like to thank Mr Blow given he’d probably have still got plentymuch sales by keeping it at $20.
Now I just await the Steam announcement. (b ^_^)b
18/02/2009 at 20:35 Tworak says:
+1 sale
18/02/2009 at 20:36 Pags says:
http://braid-game.com/news/?p=519
Still not $5, but there’s less room for complaint anyway.
http://braid-game.com/news/?p=519
He’ll see your $15, and raise you another 5 cents. Or something.
18/02/2009 at 20:43 unclelou says:
If PC gamers want to see their preferred platform regain some of its earlier shine and preeminence, they have to start making demands, and start taking into account the technical aspect of the so-called “ports” they so obligingly spend their money on
My impressions recently go in the opposite direction. The PC community seems to be particularly whiney, fickle, and makes mountains out of molehills more than anyone else. That’s not an attack on anyone particularly here, but rather a general observation from visiting gaming sites and forums.
This won’t lead to shine and preeminence, but further disregard of the platform.
Small example: Game not on Steam? People flat out refuse to even consider buying it. Another: Absolutely everything gets called a “bad port” these days. Everything. I am not excusing bugs here, but people sometimes forget that the PC’s biggest strength is also one of its weaknesses. It won’t always be as smooh sailing as it is with console games.
“Political”, reasonable demands are one thing, but they seem to get lost in a lot of nonsense.
On a sidenote, I see from Mr. Blow’s link in this thread that he’s already made clear that he doesn’t depend on us.
18/02/2009 at 20:58 Anthony Damiani says:
“Why does everyone insist they’ll only buy something digitally if it appears on Steam?”
Because I want one– ONE– of these resource-hogging all-in-one shopping/download/matchmaking/messaging/achievement/grouping things.
At this point I don’t care much. It can be Steam, or Impulse, or even GfW:L. Just freaking pick one so I don’t have to be using them all, piecemail. They all do basically the same thing, having three+ of them gives me little added value.
18/02/2009 at 21:07 Hybrid says:
If its on steam ill probably check it out. Plus the $15 is pretty good.
18/02/2009 at 21:13 Markoff Chaney says:
Mr. Blow, I would like to extend my gratitude.
Not only do you recognize the true nature of our currency, but you listen to those that propelled you to your current position in certain areas of the Internets. Thank You for listening. We have read your words for months and are grateful you have read and understood ours. I feel at this price point you now have a much greater possibility of receiving your optimal amount of money from this release because this follows precedent. Mind you, this is regardless of the statement that you wanted to only charge 10 dollars for Braid on the 360 but Microsoft wouldn’t let you.
I look forward to enjoying your game on my platform of choice. Thank You.
18/02/2009 at 22:31 Mr Popov says:
generic question here but why aren’t we, the consumers, seeing any price reductions in games due to digital distribution?
18/02/2009 at 22:37 Sunjammer says:
How the hell can you be a “Cunt” for delaying a game? That notion practically makes me furious. Devs don’t owe you shit candid
18/02/2009 at 22:45 jay says:
Some of the stuff in this topic makes me feel a little embarrassed to play games on pc.
It will be nice to play Braid soon though, hopefully with more positive vibes by then.
18/02/2009 at 23:06 Funky Badger says:
Hmmm, the sense of entitlement is strong here….
18/02/2009 at 23:09 A-Scale says:
I still can’t justify paying that much for a platformer. I’ve seen the demo on a friend’s 360 and I know the story, but I don’t get what the big deal is. The story is intriguing, and the time manipulation seems fun, but it’s still a simple platformer. People who are excited, why are you so excited? I want to be excited too!
18/02/2009 at 23:13 Hybrid says:
@Mr Popov
There’s no price reduction for digital distribution because it wouldn’t be fair to those who buy them at retail.
18/02/2009 at 23:16 Kestrel says:
“generic question here but why aren’t we, the consumers, seeing any price reductions in games due to digital distribution?”
Because retailers will immediately pull any game that is selling for less online than in a brick and mortar store.
The real question is why this isn’t illegal…
18/02/2009 at 23:20 Kestrel says:
edit: somehow, Hybrid, I think it has less to do with fairness to the consumer and alot more to do with larger retail operations seeing very clearly that their hour rapidly approaches. They are using the power they still have to shore up their business model, with ridiculous measures like insisting that pricing for DLL be the same or higher (never mind that it costs less to produce and distribute) but it is only a matter of time.
18/02/2009 at 23:29 Paul Moloney says:
It’s weird stumbling across this thread having heard of Braid, but not following the saga of its development and XBLA release, and encountering a 1984esque three-minute hate. I’ve no idea why some people seem to believe that Mr. Blow owes them an exclusive release on their favourite platform to the extent of calling him such names. Where did this sense of entitlement come from?
While I feel all indied-out lately what with Crayon Physics Deluxe, World of Goo, etc, for $15 I may give this a punt.
P.
18/02/2009 at 23:32 Dr_demento says:
@ PHeMoX: We all misread stuff on the internet. No worries.
@ A-Scale:
Braid‘s time-travel puzzles are really, really clever, much cleverer than I’ve seen in almost any other games. They’re just the right difficulty to be an Achiev- sorry, an achievement to get but not so hard that you end up thinking “what the frack?” and going to a walkthrough.
Braid‘s music is phenomenal alone, and that it gets affected by the time manipulation (running backwards, slowing down etc.) and still works is nothing short of incredible.
Braid‘s art style is superlative-defying and beautiful. I love it.
Braid‘s plot, except for in that damn epilogue, is an awe-inspiring twist on the rescue-the-princess archetype which almost beat out Simon Parkin’s.
The only thing I don’t like about it is the 2doors1key trap. Bastard. Oh well…
18/02/2009 at 23:48 A-Scale says:
Ok Dr. I’m intrigued. But I wonder if it will be as good on PC as it was using a controller. That and the 15 dollar price tag are my two main concerns now. How long is this game? I’m going to find it hard shelling out 15 bucks for 2 hours of entertainment.
19/02/2009 at 00:16 Dr_demento says:
$15 is definately worth it, its controls should work as well on a PC as they did on the 360, and I’d say it has about five or six hours of gameplay in it – more if you get particularly stuck. One puzzle near the end had a friend of mine thinking for a couple of days before he shouted “of course” (in a queue at Spar) and ran home to do it. It’s not particularly long or especially replayable, it’s true, but it is worth the price.
19/02/2009 at 00:54 pkt-zer0 says:
I’ll say this: I do not think World of Goo is worth 20$, nor does it seem like Braid will be worth 15$. I still pre-ordered the former, and will do the same with the latter. Why? Because even though the content alone might not justify the price, it’s an investment into the future of gaming, a future where more games dare to do something different. And for that, I’m perfectly willing to part with my money.
19/02/2009 at 01:08 yutt says:
@Candid_Man
Oh, goodness, what a bunch of self-entitled claptrap. Blow is trying to earn a living and support the development of future games, not satiate the every fanciful whim of pretentious whiners.
You’re just looking for an bullshit excuse to pirate the game. Apparently you need that for yourself, because there is certainly no one here that buys it.
19/02/2009 at 01:30 MetalCircus says:
Jonathon Blowjob.
19/02/2009 at 02:28 catska says:
Piracy tax.
Anyone who doesn’t play this game because it was on a console first or because they don’t like the developer is an idiot. This game is incredible.
The sense of entitlement here is ridiculous. Look no further than the comments in this thread to see exactly whats wrong with PC gaming. Developers have to practically suck you off to get you to pay for the product that they created instead of downloading it for free.
Seems like it was a smart move to delay the PC release, most of the people interested from the get-go probably bought it on console instead of pirating it on the pc.
19/02/2009 at 02:44 MetalCircus says:
I was just making a crap pun about Jonathon Blow’s name. I’ve played the trial on xbox live and loved it. (Just incase your post was aimed at me)
Can’t wait for this personally. and come on guys, pay the man, the game is great.
19/02/2009 at 02:52 Rich_P says:
Look no further than the comments in this thread to see exactly whats wrong with PC gaming.
There’s a distinction between entitlement and reasonable expectations, this thread tilting toward the former to be sure. I’m not trying to defend the people who hurl insults at Blow for what’s a trivial matter (my above comment was pretty much about games other than Braid), but rather argue that PC gamers have plenty of legitimate things to be grumpy about (none of which are the fault of the indie community).
19/02/2009 at 02:55 Angel Dust says:
What the hell is people’s problem with paying $20 bucks for this? Most of you certainly pay $50 for polished turds that quite often have the same hour to dollar ratio and if they don’t are padded out with superfluous ‘content’. “World of Goo” didn’t take me 20 hours to finish but I enjoyed those hours far more than the 20 I sunk into Fallout 3, which I never finished. Too many people have a content value = quantity rather than quality. Sure nobody wants to play a 1 hour game but $20 for 3-4 hours of superb entertainment is preferable than $50 for 20-30 hours of bloated tedium in my book.
I also often find the the short games have very high replay value since it doesn’t require a big investment to have a quick blat.
19/02/2009 at 03:04 Candid_Man says:
About the insult I throwed mindlessly. I would really like to take it back as it had no place in this thread. I’m serious.
It seems that my usually correct grasp of English registers failed me here. Not a native speaker, please do excuse me.
Sorry again, to Jonathan Blow and anybody I offended.
19/02/2009 at 03:04 elle says:
Some more goodness in the comments to that newest post: Jonathan confirms talks for aPS3 port, confirms a Mac port and softens his stance on Linux.
He also says the art makes it hard to do resolutions other than 1280×720, so 16:10 and 4:3 resolutions will have letterboxing.
19/02/2009 at 03:17 elle says:
Some people are having their morning or afternoon cry over the price, timing of release and distribution method of a video game. This too shall pass. In fact, it practically already has.
I don’t want to defend anyone here, but PC gaming had the entitlement troll problem when it was in its infancy, had it all through whatever you consider as its golden age, has it now and will have it forever. The consoles have had the same problem for the same length of time, and they probably do it with more venom and less intelligence than anyone’s presented in this thread.
Whatever the problems are, I doubt this thread holds any answers, much less the answer. I always thought it was because consoles had a lower point-of-entry price and greater degree of convenience, and not because a micro-minority bashes their faces into keyboards on forums over pricing and distribution issues.
19/02/2009 at 03:41 redrain85 says:
There was no good reason to charge an extra $5. Well, other than greed, that is. The piracy tax has already been paid, by delaying the release of the PC version for this long.
Besides, if Braid had been released on the PC first at $15 and later for $20 on the 360 . . . the same damn outcry would have happened, and don’t anyone try to pretend otherwise.
19/02/2009 at 07:45 MultiVaC says:
Exactly, redrain. It was perfectly reasonable not to want to pay an extra $5 for no apparent reason. That’s the problem with a lot of people’s mindset. “Oh, it’s only $5 more!”, even though it could easily be released for $15. And now it is, problem solved. I don’t understand why people are pointing fingers and calling people whiners. We’re all paying less money for a great game. Everyone wins here. If Jonathan Blow absolutely felt need to charge $20 that would be fine. But obviously that’s not the case, because he lowered the price. If it was a totally unreasonable demand, he wouldn’t have done it.
19/02/2009 at 08:50 Feet says:
@Pags Thank you for linking to Soulja Boy. That was amazing.
@JBlow Thanks for the price reduction, that was the “right thing”. I might even buy your wonderful game again for that price.
BUT ONLY IF IT COMES OUT ON STEAM BECAUSE I HAVE POINTLESSLY DECIDED TO BE VALVES BITCH.
¬_¬
19/02/2009 at 09:36 SofS says:
I’ve been surprised at the negative reaction to Braid’s pricing since it was first released. I’m as poor as the next guy whose new job doesn’t start for a week, and I definitely understand feeling stingy about money, but answer me this: how often can you pick up a game for less than $20 before discount or resale? $15-20 is about as cheap as you’re going to get for a well-made game on release. I can only think of a few I’ve wanted that have started out lower than that, and they were generally arcadey things that are more about having lots of replay than presenting a big initial experience.
(Like others, I also wonder at the supposedly dealbreaking $5 difference between the initially-announced price and the current price. I suspect that if it had started at $15, many would have said that it was only worth $10. If it had started at $10, there would have been people (not necessarily the same people, mind) saying they’d pay nothing to play it.)
I’d also just like to vouch for the game to those who are unsure about purchase. I played the main story through on my friend’s 360 and loved every minute. Not sure why being a platformer seems to put people off of it, but bear in mind that it’s really all about the puzzles.
P.S.
For those who haven’t seen it yet, check the link in my name for the way things should be between the PC and the other major formats.
19/02/2009 at 10:31 Markoff Chaney says:
Entitlement? Do I feel I am entitled to having the exact same product on a competing platform for the exact same price? I do have that expectation, yes. It came from studying math and economics. How dare I care about marketplace equality and pricing fairness on my platform of choice? How dare I try to voice my opinion on something I care about?
It’s got nothing to do with similar products, or non indie polished turds costs 2.5 times as much products. The issue this deals with has to do with comparing apples to apples and wanting to have person A pay the same thing as person B for the exact same product.
19/02/2009 at 11:30 drewski says:
It’s funny that PC gamers think they’re entitled to the same pricing as consoles for indie games, yet I don’t see big long comments threads on RPS complaining about consoles getting games $10 higher than PC because of licensing.
If a game’s worth $15, I think it’s almost certainly worth $20. Even if it’s delayed. Nice of Blow to wind back the price anyway, of course, but really, you’re telling me a game’s great at $15 but the price of a McMeal turns it into pirate bait?
FFS.
As for anyone thinking that $15 is too much for a genuinely classy, interesting and original game – Portal. Now shut up.
19/02/2009 at 11:46 Ginger Yellow says:
“Do I feel I am entitled to having the exact same product on a competing platform for the exact same price? I do have that expectation, yes. It came from studying math and economics. ”
Um, I’m not sure where in economics it says that everything costs the same everywhere. Costcutter sells bottles of Orangina for 79p. WH Smith sells them for £1.50. That doesn’t generate 100 comment rant threads.
“The story is intriguing, and the time manipulation seems fun, but it’s still a simple platformer. People who are excited, why are you so excited?”
Because it’s not a simple platformer! It has the most ingenious, rewarding puzzles of pretty much any game I’ve played. And everything Dr Demento said. The production values and artistry are outstanding.
19/02/2009 at 12:23 QuantumGravitas says:
Uncleloo said: “Small example: Game not on Steam? People flat out refuse to even consider buying it. Another: Absolutely everything gets called a “bad port” these days. Everything. I am not excusing bugs here, but people sometimes forget that the PC’s biggest strength is also one of its weaknesses. It won’t always be as smooh sailing as it is with console games.”
I agree with the first point. Steam fanatics are the same as any corporate fanboi. But then again it is not entirely unreasonable to want to support one of the PC’s premiere games developers or to want to have only one games/shopping client installed on their machine. However, I cannot diagree more with you on the second. The number of games that originate on, or have their development tailored to inferior console hardware, which are then ported across to Pc generally are poor efforts. How many games still direct you to console controls? Several spring to mind. (e.g: Star Trek: Legacy) How many take advantage of the PC control system without forcing you to either plug in a pad or stick with unweildy key commands shoe-horned in at the last minute? How many restrict their game worlds to console limitations which PCs transcended years ago – eg draw-distance? How many simplify the gaming experience for the console masses? It was not PC’s that invented quick-time, press-button now events.
There are many genuine reasons to call a game a ‘bad console port’ – PC’s are amazing pieces of kit and too often developers choose not to take full advantage of them because what they made for the consoles is deemed suitable enough. They – the developers – dumbed down the gaming experience for mass consumption (a prime example is to compare the first Deus Ex with it’s console-developed sequel, Invisible War) and when PC gamers raise voices of dissent we get stuck-up people on comment threads accusing us of ‘inflated senses of entitlement’. There ARE voluble morons in every faction who will ruin it for the rest but these people should not detract from what are real and geniune concerns.
19/02/2009 at 12:47 AdrianWerner says:
I like Stardock over Valve, so whenever a game is avaible on both Impulse and Steam I choose Impulse version to let Stardock get my money :)
And now with the whole Valve Euro pricing diseaster I won’t buy anything on STEAM ever again untill they fix the damn thing. At least Impulse doesn’t make me pay extra just because I live in diffrent country It’s getting ridiculous…I somehow swallowed paying the same for DD as I did in retail, but paying more? Dawn of War 2 on STEAM is twice as expensive as boxed copy in my country..yes…TWICE. What a joke
19/02/2009 at 12:55 Paul Moloney says:
“And now with the whole Valve Euro pricing diseaster I won’t buy anything on STEAM ever again untill they fix the damn thing. [...] Dawn of War 2 on STEAM is twice as expensive as boxed copy in my country..yes…TWICE.”
Erm, so, don’t buy it. And buy stuff that’s worth buying.
Sorry, people, but I see people getting so angry about this issue they lose all rationality. I use Steam purely out of self-interest; boycotting it totally is as silly as using it to buy everything:
* If something is cheap (weekend bargains, value packs), I’ll buy it.
* If something is not cheap (most new releases), I won’t buy it but get it online retail.
Simply, easy rules that mean that I get value for money from Steam and don’t spend my time frothing at the mouth on ‘net forums. If everyone follows this method, sooner or later, publishers will be forced to drop their direct download prices.
Try it sometime.
P.
19/02/2009 at 13:02 AndrewC says:
I would argue against the ‘simpler=dumbed down’ position. For one ‘dumbed down’ is a rhetorically loaded phrase that implies that console owners are all mouth breathing morons – implies without any of that pesky ‘proof’ business. It’s an easy pejorative used by the fanboys, so if you are using their language it is your own fault for being lumped in with them.
Secondly ‘simpler’ can be a design decision just as much as it can be a compromise. Is Serious Sam simply a dumbed down ArmA? Is Sega Rally a dumbed down Grand Prix Legends? This ‘dumbed down’ implies the nominally PC way of making games is the only true way of making games, and we’re back into fanboy territory.
And for the records, the smaller maps of Thief 3 and Deus Ex 2 wound me up no end, but perhaps we should let that pain go? It’s been a while now.
19/02/2009 at 13:31 Markoff Chaney says:
It could be 5$. It could be 1 red cent. It’s the principle of the thing, in my mind.
As I said before (albeit in other ranting comments), he is welcome to price the game at whatever price point he feels. He can charge 17 thousand dollarydoos for it. That is his right as a producer of content. As a consumer, I have the choice to purchase or not purchase his content at the price point he sets. (This is where many pirates get their justification from and one should realize it’s pointless attempting to argue with someone that would
stealreplicate penny candy if they could) I, personally, choose to gladly purchase it at the price point already set by his own precedent for the exact same game. Mind you this is a price point that he said was five dollars higher than the 10 dollars he wanted to charge, but Microsoft made him charge 15.I don’t want to discourage competition, but I do want to encourage fairness and equality, all things considered. Is the rent/average pay/whatever lower at Costcutter or WH Smith or is one just being a price gouging jerk? I can tell you where, all things being equal for me as a consumer, I would purchase my Orangina. Am I wrong for bringing in an advertisement to WH Smith and notifying them that they could possibly move more product (and make a higher net profits based on volume instead of markup) and have better good will toward and from their community? Idealistically stupid? Yeah, I’m that. Fair doesn’t enter into the real world. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is selling you something.
I am not in any way trying to defend higher pricing for console games because, honestly, they should cost higher for the simple reason that the cost of the hardware is subsidized by the manufacturer with the expectation that they receive additional licensing fees from software sales to make up for the loss leader of the console. Until publishers have to pay nVidia, Intel, ATI, Asus and every other hardware manufacturer a kick back for putting the game on the a PC (and thusly lowering my initial cost of purchase of the hardware) I think that’s only fair and has a basis in reality in economics.
Finally, I just want to say again I look forward to this game. It was rough not to pay for funny money on Microsoft’s console to buy it. I’m glad I get to enjoy it on my platform of choice for the same price. Seems fair to me. ;)
19/02/2009 at 14:46 redrain85 says:
@drewski:
Well, that kind of goes without saying, doesn’t it? RPS is a PC-centric site, so naturally most of the discussion will be about what we like or don’t like about what’s happening with the PC games market.
I see plenty of comments on other sites, with people moaning about having to pay more for console games than PCs. Or how about when Valve releases updates for their games on the PC first, for free? Watch the shit hit the fan, every time.
It happens on both sides of the fence. Don’t anyone try to make it somehow seem emblematic of the PC gamer set.
19/02/2009 at 14:54 drewski says:
It’s the sense of entitlement that is the problem, not whether or not there is moaning on other sites.
19/02/2009 at 15:09 UncleLou says:
It’s funny that PC gamers think they’re entitled to the same pricing as consoles for indie games, yet I don’t see big long comments threads on RPS complaining about consoles getting games $10 higher than PC because of licensing.
That’s because we pay for our hardware upfront, and don’t have to pay aubsidised hardware off game by game. Bit of a simplification, admittedly, but not far from the truth. :p
19/02/2009 at 16:45 AdrianWerner says:
@Paul Moloney:
with current pricing on STEAM even the weekend deals are msot of the times more expensive than retail here
@drewski – no. It’s simple fair play. We buy our hardware upfront, there’s no fee publishers have to pay to console companies etc. It’s not a sense of entitlement, it’s simple distate for paying more without any logical reason besides “I said so”
19/02/2009 at 17:10 redrain85 says:
@drewski:
I don’t really see a distinction. Moaning is a result of entitlement, and it happens plenty on both sides. It’s not unique to the old-school PC set.
I don’t believe the majority are asking for fair treatment “just because” we’ve been around the longest and we’re somehow special. We just couldn’t see any justification for charging $5 more.
At any rate, kudos to Jonathan for lowering the price.
20/02/2009 at 00:13 Paul Moloney says:
“with current pricing on STEAM even the weekend deals are msot of the times more expensive than retail here”
SO. BUY. RETAIL.
P.
25/02/2009 at 21:00 James G says:
Just to let folks know, Braid has been announced on Steam:
$14.99, €12.99, £9.99