By John Walker on March 28th, 2012 at 9:15 am.
According to an interview with Gamespy, Assassin Creed 3′s creative director, Alex Hutchinson, has declared that Ubisoft won’t be “investing hugely in a mouse and keyboard setup”, instead suggesting that PC gamers use a controller to play the game. Which at first may look like another reason for us to hitch up our skirts and stomp angrily to the protesting grounds, but I’d argue that perhaps he’s right.
“We’re definitely supporting PC,” he told the green IGN offshoot. “We love PC, but I think it’ll be PC with a controller. I don’t see us investing hugely in a mouse and keyboard setup. I think if you want to play on PC and you want to play Assassin’s Creed, you have a controller.”
At a certain point, I think it’s reasonable for PC gamers to accept the necessity of investing in a decent game controller. In the days of the Spectrum I fully understood the requirement of adding a Kempston joystick (even if I did blow up my dad’s 128K by wobbling the Kempston port while it was switched on), and I think in our world of cross-platform shared games, which were built from the ground up designed for a controller, it’s fair to assume some games will not work optimally with a typing interface.
Oh, and here’s another thing to bear in mind: this isn’t new. None of the AssCreed series have been specially catered for in this department, and people have gotten by with mouse/keyboard. To the best of my knowledge, he’s not saying, “The game will ignore your peripherals,” but rather that the game will be optimally played on a controller.
Edit: Yup, Ubisoft confirm that it will of course have mouse/keyboard support, as with previous games in the series. But still won’t tell us a release date for the PC version.
So, if the game comes out and can’t be bothered to have implemented a mouse cursor for the menu options, I’m down with kicking off a fuss. That’s just rude. But if the developers believe their game is designed from the ground up to be played on a controller, that seems entirely fair to me. Would I prefer there to be investment in superb mouse/keyboard controls too? Yes I would. Do I hate it when writers pose questions to themselves to offer balance? Absolutely. And while I realise that many can’t afford to just add a 360 PC controller to their arsenal, I’d say it’s becoming an essential piece of equipment for the modern, well-groomed PC gamer.
If you’d prefer to read an angry version of this news story, check out Dark Side Of Gaming, who call it “horseshit“. Naturally there’s a petition to sign. And thanks to neon_25 for alerting us.
28/03/2012 at 09:19 Valvarexart says:
It has always been this way with the AC games, this is nothing new. However, a gaming mouse should do the job pretty well (you can use the side buttons for running/freerunning).
28/03/2012 at 10:02 Bob says:
Interesting. After a work mishap my 5 button Razer has been a blessing while a couple of fingers on my right hand mend. I’m left handed and would love a seven button mouse for a leftie. I’d rather spend money on that than a controller if it (mouse) gets the job done.
28/03/2012 at 10:05 LennyLeonardo says:
You have seven fingers on your left hand?? By “work mishap” do you mean “lab accident”?.
28/03/2012 at 14:20 Kroakie says:
You have only 10 keys on your keyboard?!! How did you manage to type that reply then?
28/03/2012 at 18:45 kastanok says:
Kroakie – Lenny’s comment is a joke, intentional comic absurdity. No need to get angry. :-)
29/03/2012 at 01:14 hemmer says:
The new SteelSeries mice are all perfectly symmetrical, and as such usable by leftys as well. Zowie too. In fact I’ve seen quite a few universal mice by several manufacturers.
28/03/2012 at 11:54 Stevostin says:
I played AC with mouse and keyboard no problem (and probably better than I could with a pad). I dropped the game out of it being boring, nothing else. Controls were just fine.
So
1- Ubi, you’re ridiculous. A gamepad over a keyboard is largely cultural. Some learned to play with a Sega or a Nintendo console, while some other learned with a C64, an Amiga or a PC. All those had joystick whose on the long run were often replaced by just the keyboard as it was more accurate (and less fragile). Now modern gamepad have, years after we had the addition of mouses, analogic stick. OK, that’s nice and in some case, when both are used, and as they’re is only one mouse, I can see how it could, in theory, be the better option. Fact is it nearly never happens. I did all my GTAIV without a pad (that and all Rockstar games). It works well enough. Why spend and get an ugly extra item on my desk ?
2- That being said I won’t play AC3 so to be honnest you’re not loosing a customer with me. I won’t play it because it’s third person view and uninspiring background. Look at me giving my money to Dishonored when it’s out !
28/03/2012 at 14:35 paterah says:
3- Look at Ubisoft not giving a fuck.
28/03/2012 at 15:06 KenTWOu says:
I played AC with mouse and keyboard no problem…
Just press Q-button and you will notice that AC:Brotherhood has better mouse/keyboard support than latter AC:Revelations. Also bomb making menu in Revelations is awful from mouse/keyboard point of view.
28/03/2012 at 19:14 MonolithicTentacledAbomination says:
It was awful from a controller point of view, too.
28/03/2012 at 16:07 Metonymy says:
Puff all you want about elitism, if your game should be played with a controller, it is made for children, not for adults.
Since we already knew this about AC, why is this a news story at all?
28/03/2012 at 16:57 gwathdring says:
Oh. Damn. I should probably stop playing Skyrim on my friend’s Xbox and start playing My Little Pony: The Runaway Rainbow on PC, then. Close call there, I almost judged whether or not a game was appropriate for me based on the content rather than the peripheral.
28/03/2012 at 18:47 kastanok says:
Nicely put.
28/03/2012 at 19:22 Metonymy says:
But Skyrim (not a good example for you, its pretty simple) shouldn’t be played with a controller. The UI never should have been designed for a controller. Refute the actual comment please.
28/03/2012 at 22:40 hamburger_cheesedoodle says:
An excellent point- My Little Pony touches on lots of sensitive real-world issues in a complex fashion that Skyrim just totally ignores in favor of chopping things with swords. The ESRB clearly have the ratings backwards.
28/03/2012 at 15:35 stupid_mcgee says:
Spot on with the gaming mouse. My MX-518 works great with Res Evil 5, Ass Creeds 1 & 2, Arkham Asylum, GTA4, and Deus Ex: HR, I’ve had zero problems with console-oriented ports nor poorly optimized PC layouts. As long as I can rebind my keys, I’ve been fine. The one caveat to that last piece would be Dead Rising 2, which has no key binding options, but I thought their PC control scheme was actually pretty good for that game.
If one doesn’t mind a controller, then go for it. That’s one of the things that’s so great about PC. You can use KB/M, controller, racing wheel, hell you could probably even rig up a midi controller if you really wanted to.
Ever since I severely gimped my left hand not too long ago, I haven’t been able to reliably use the XBox 360 controller. I prefer, instead, to use my gaming mouse. It feels a lot more natural and doesn’t cause anywhere near as much stress on my wrist. Before, the left trigger and top-buttons would always cause my grip to slip and/or mild discomfort. I’ll still tolerate it for a game of Pro Evo with friends, but I’m not gonna be playing a tournament. Actually, even before I shattered my hand and wrist, I didn’t like the 360 controller, nor the PS3 one. IMO, the PS2 controller is still the best designed and most comfortable controller ever made.
28/03/2012 at 17:01 gwathdring says:
Isn’t the standard PS3 controller the Dual Shock 3? Whenever I’ve tried out a friend’s PS3 or demoed one in stores, I’ve used a Dual Shock 3. Its basically the same casing, but with new gadgetry under the hood and admittedly rather different shoulder triggers. I found it just as comfortable, and agree that no controller I’ve tried really matches the Dual Shock line for comfort and usability.
28/03/2012 at 18:10 Mericet says:
You know, I always feel like I’ve managed some fantastic achievement in ignorance whenever people say “Assassin’s Creed plays better with a gamepad.” Somehow I’ve gone from Masyaf to Rome and back again on a mouse and keyboard, without even touching the keybinds and it played just fine.
28/03/2012 at 18:49 kastanok says:
+1 / Like / Retweet / Hear, hear, what, what!
28/03/2012 at 21:52 Robert says:
I’m not sure why go on the defensive regarding this. Sure you can play it fine with mouse/keyboard, but it being better suited for gamepad doesn’t make that any less true.
You can play badminton with a tennis racket, and will beat lesser skilled people with it too, but that doesn’t mean it’s insulting if I say that badminton is meant to be played with a badminton racket.
29/03/2012 at 01:21 Mericet says:
Probably should have mentioned that when I tried a gamepad, the only noticeable difference was that Ezio was marginally better at interacting with things not visible to the camera. Huge gains.
29/03/2012 at 02:06 Hidden_7 says:
I may be a freak on this one, but I’ve tried both and prefer M+KB. I played through the original AC on my Playstation when it came out, as it wasn’t out on PC at the time. I then rebought it when it came out on PC, and really wouldn’t want to go back to playing it on a controller. All subsequent AC’s I’ve waited for the PC version. I hardly touch my PS3 anymore because it requires the use of a controller. I can get through games just fine with one, it just always feels like I’ve got one hand tied behind my back.
It’s the looking around that really gets me. I usually can’t be bothered to do it on a controller because it’s such a hassle, so I always feel like I’m playing with blinders on. If your game has anything worth looking at at all, or any kind of cohesive environment I’ll be playing it on a Mouse + KB, thank you.
30/03/2012 at 18:39 UberMonkey says:
I actually really tried to play AC with a gamepad; it just seemed like a game that actually was designed with the gamepad in mind. I just couldn’t get over not having proper freelook. I’ll admit that it might have been slightly better for some aspects of navigation (there are places in the game where the camera locks and you have to jump at a funny angle, which is kind of hard with just WASD) but I just couldn’t enjoy the game without being able to use the mouse to look around quickly. I still find it more comfortable to move the camera myself and just go “forward” than to move the player at an angle and let the camera catch up. And really, my only complaint about the KB/M setup in the game was that there was no way to disable the terrible mouse accel/smoothing, but it wasn’t that bad.
29/03/2012 at 22:02 Boothie says:
I gave in to my insctinctive distaste for peripherals aside from mouse and keyboard a long time ago, instead of whining over every game that turns up on pc with focus on controllers i now just whine about every console exclusive that doesnt show up at all, id give a leg to play the god of war series on my PC
28/03/2012 at 09:21 Kleppy says:
Yep it’s made to be played with a controller. A wired 360 controller is cheap and works far better for a lot of current games than the keyboard.
28/03/2012 at 09:27 Clash says:
I went and bought a USB receiver for wireless Xbox controllers a few months back. It’s especially great for having your computer plugged into the TV across the room. :D
28/03/2012 at 10:02 Amun says:
But what if you don’t want to give microsoft any money? =p
28/03/2012 at 11:38 mrosenki says:
Razor Onza TE tis quite a sweet alternative then (if you do like the 360 pad layout that is)
28/03/2012 at 14:38 paterah says:
I think Madcatz and razer have some xbox style controllers. Logitech also has Sony-layout controllers and they have Xinput as well and also the buttons of the xbox controller, works perfect on PC.
28/03/2012 at 15:02 dr.castle says:
if you have an old ps2 controller lying around (or can grab one from a friend who does), justpick up one of these cheap adapters. Between XPadder and Xbox360 controller emulation files, I’ve never had a problem getting it to work with a game. I also prefer the smaller form of the ps2 controller, personally.
28/03/2012 at 15:39 stupid_mcgee says:
I agree. The PS2 controller, IMO, is the best ever made. They made the PS3 one a bit fatter and heavier, and it just doesn’t seem to settle in one’s hands quite as easily.
29/03/2012 at 00:13 zakihashi says:
Then you use MotionJoy DualShock 3 tool and just plug your PS3 controller in(or buy a bluetooth reciver) and use a USB cable to emulate the Xbox 360 controller.
28/03/2012 at 10:17 stahlwerk says:
Edit: Reply to ^^^
You’ve already paid for using Windows, ain’t cha?
Logitech will gladly take your moneys as well.
28/03/2012 at 11:05 lurkalisk says:
How in the world does it work any better for any situation? A KBM setup provides for all the needs I have with greater function and similar comfort to a game pad. I’ll never understand why people think a 3rd person view makes a game pad better.
A flight stick or a wheel (and respective periphery) makes sense, but a game pad is just a shoddy substitute for something that can simply do more with higher quality, save pressure sensitive buttons, but I can’t think of a single good use of such a feature so far.
28/03/2012 at 11:34 TotalBiscuit says:
This is BS I’m afraid. A KB/M is not better for every game because a keyboard has no analogue function what-so-ever, giving you extremely imprecise control over movement. Mice are great for aiming, the best in fact, they are not good for movement. Examples of games that more often than not work better with a controller
Fighting games
Third person action (especially if it involves platforming)
Some platformers
Racing games
28/03/2012 at 11:53 Frosty840 says:
It’s surprising how little analogue control many games give you, to be honest. Many implement footstep-by-footstep movement, so you can only move in single steps of “walk” or “run” anyway. Many also only implement a small number of movement types, so you can be walking, or running, or sneaking, but there’s none of the actual fine control which is implied by the analogue control stick.
At very, very slow speeds, I know the AC series has allowed you to move ludicrously “standing-on-one-leg-for-seconds-at-a-time” slowly, but I wonder how much real analogue control you have at high movement speeds and how much is essentially imaginary…
28/03/2012 at 14:42 paterah says:
AC would not be a good example because it has modifiers for different movement types and as such the analogue sensitivity won’t make a terrible difference. Most action games don’t though and have different movement types depending on how much you push the stick.
28/03/2012 at 18:08 Reefpirate says:
It’s not just about walking vs. running… With WASD you only have 8 potential directions to input, whereas an analog stick would have more (I don’t think it would be as high as 360 degrees, but higher than WASD).
28/03/2012 at 18:51 kastanok says:
To be fair to Mouse&Keyboard, the mouse has unparalleled analogue control.
28/03/2012 at 11:58 Bremze says:
While controllers with good d-pads, fightsticks and hitboxes are arguably better than a keyboard for fighting games, trying to play fighting games with the usual xbox 360/ps3 controller is far more painful than with the numpad.
28/03/2012 at 12:24 Khemm says:
You should have said “some third person action games”, because it really depends on the game.
Max Payne, Mafia 1-2, Warhammer 40k Space Marine and Batman Arkham Asylum/City are fine examples of games which work MUCH better with mouse and keyboard – imo, of course.
28/03/2012 at 19:18 MonolithicTentacledAbomination says:
While I began Batman: AA and Space Marine both on m/kb, I was eventually made to swap over to the 360 pad for want of better movement. In Batman it was the awful running-toward-the-camera moment while escaping Killer Croc’s lair in particular that did it.
28/03/2012 at 12:52 Deano2099 says:
Yep, racing games work best on a controller, and essentially Assassin’s Creed is half racing-game. You hold the buttons down, point the direction you want to go and steer….
28/03/2012 at 14:10 InternetBatman says:
I think there’s still a fundamental problem.
In two of the examples you list, the best method of control is something else entirely. Racing games are both better with a wheel and accelerator and fighting games are arguably better with an arcade style joystick. On consoles when the method of input is not best for a game developers use adaptive technologies. On the PC they release a poorly designed port with bad keybindings, and expect everyone to use a dual-analog pad to make it easier for them rather than simply playtesting and slightly altering games for a couple of months.
28/03/2012 at 14:23 Wreckdum says:
lol no they don’t… They do the same thing they do on console. They already said you can use your keyboard. The game will control better on a controller… Stop being defiant just for the sake of being defiant. 3rd person and platform games are better with a controller. It’s not a debate. I find PC gamers hilarious lately. Yes I’ve been PC gaming since the early 90′s playing every Sierra adventure game ever made. I will say they were my addiction. But I was also raised in the 80′s on the NES. Just because you hate where consoles have gone doesn’t mean you have to forget where they came from. There is nothing inferior about a controller in a platform game. The only keyboard vs controller argument that holds water is aiming in an FPS type game. Yes mouse + keyboard is superior in that regard. Everything else is just a bunch of arguing just to hear yourself argue.
28/03/2012 at 14:10 Wut The Melon says:
No surprise there, I guess we should be honoured that Ubisoft still ports to PC. But to those that say controller beats KB/M I have to disagree. Obviously a mouse is more accurate than a controller, but a keyboard offers so many more keys than a controller, allowing me to do so much more than with a controller. The analogue stick is really the only advantage a controller has (over WASD), but as long as the camera’s decent I use the mouse (and camera) to aim. Of course, console ports sometimes give limited control over the camera, pissing me and my WASD off, but if a company does proper PC development I wouldn’t miss the analogue stick.
In short: obviously the controller is preferable if you refuse to develop half-decently for KB/M. But that’s Ubisoft’s fault, not the keyboard’s.
28/03/2012 at 14:55 CptPlanet says:
Developing good for KB/M won’t transform your keyboard in a gamepad which is what arguably works best with most games today.
28/03/2012 at 15:47 DrGonzo says:
You’re not an idiot TotalBiscuit. So why are you making such foolish comments? You must be aware of subjectivity. Control schemes are exactly that. Subjective. My dad won’t play anything without a mouse and keyboard. It is irrelevant if I prefer to play with one or the other, many people only like using one or the other so they must both be supported.
I’m also looking at Mass Effect on this one.
28/03/2012 at 16:43 Kuraudo says:
As someone who plays more than their fair shair of fighting games, unless you want to bring 150 dollar fightsticks into the equation, I’d rather use a keyboard than a terrible 360 controller.
29/03/2012 at 00:45 Ashnal says:
I totally agree here. There are certain functions that are much better with analogue control. Arguably the best analogue control device is a mouse, but it just doesn’t make sense for any analogue control aside from aiming. Game pads have the benefit of having multiple analogue inputs that can be used for varying purposes.
Examples of things that benefit greatly from analogue input but don’t fit well on a mouse:
Analogue character movement, steering a vehicle, an accelerator in driving games, anything involving balance.
I’ve played the AC games on PC with a pad myself, mostly because I get mouse lag in them, and because I feel analogue character movement really makes the game easier to play.
29/03/2012 at 02:13 Hidden_7 says:
The only eight directions thing only comes up when the game does silly things like lock your camera at weird rackish angles. It happened once in Brotherhood where the camera was set such that I couldn’t run straight along the platform I was running just by using WASD. While I’d agree that there it would have been nice to have access to analog movement directions, it would have been FAR nicer for them not to take control of the camera away from me to give me a useless cinematic camera focused on something off in the distance while I’m trying to do platforming in the foreground.
Basically a properly designed game you will be able to easily accomidate for only being able to move in 8 directions relative to the camera by adjusting the camera. Which is how I move anyway, even if I do have a gamepad. I tend to look where I’m going.
30/03/2012 at 18:46 UberMonkey says:
Yeah, that’s the thing right there. The mouse allows you to aim the camera and then go forward in whatever direction you want, which makes a lot more sense to me than trying to move the player at a funny angle and waiting for the camera to catch up (at which point I have to use the stick to just move forward anyway). Maybe some people prefer the stick controls, but for me even in AC it made more sense to control the camera and always just run straight forward (or side to side sometimes, I suppose). If it hadn’t been for those odd camera control stealing sequences I’d say the KB/M controls were perfect.
28/03/2012 at 11:36 jezcentral says:
I’ve found the Batman games and Space Marine (and Just Cause’s aeroplanes) play better with a controller, and that’s from someone who has been KB+M gaming for 20 years.
Hell, I used to play Doom with just a keyboard.
A controller is just another weapon in the PC’s armoury, alongside keyboards, mice, joysticks, steering wheels, haptic contollers, flightsticks, pedals, Kinnect….
28/03/2012 at 23:58 Stephen Roberts says:
And here, we arrive at the truth of the matter. I’ve played three Assassins creed titles and found that I could pretty much switch from Keyboard and mouse to Xbox Controller mid session without it troubling me in the slightest. It’s one of the more intuitively designed games for controller usage anyway. As for Super Meat Boy, that game becomes better, the game itself becomes better when you play it with a controller.
But I wouldn’t play the excellent Dead Space with a controller for money. It’s aiming. It’s a mouse.
And I’d go and buy a very good joystick before I bought Take on Helicopters. There’s no space in a PC gamers lexicon for petty rivalries. We just get the best of it all, controllers included.
28/03/2012 at 11:36 suibhne says:
That’s simply not true. At best, keyboards offer eight degrees of movement; with an analog controller, you essentially get infinite granularity. With a first-person or over-the-shoulder camera, mouse control is clearly superior, but a fixed camera always advantages the “analog” movement control of a gamepad.
The best of both worlds would be a peripheral offering analog movement control and a group of keys for your keyboard hand, allowing you to mouse at the same time. Probably niche enough it’ll never be developed, tho.
28/03/2012 at 11:42 Apples says:
The Belkin n52te has a group of keyboard keys (wasd and the surrounding keys, and space) and a little joystick that can be thumb-controlled. Unfortunately the joystick is rubbish and I’m not at all sure it’s properly analogue, but that sort of thing does exist.
28/03/2012 at 12:10 iniudan says:
The joystick is analog, I own one (so a joypad in other word =p). The joypad was fine if you deactivated in between direction and just stick to using the 4 cardinal one. The trouble with the N52te is that the software (developed by razer) is crap. Never properly saved profile other then the one saved in the n52te memory. Also software kind of a pain the in ass to make work properly with windows 7. But other then the joypad, the hardware was good stuff.
Not sure it Razer upgraded the software (the driver at kept up to date at least, so will not have the windows 7 trouble of the n52te) when the production went from Belkin to them and his now called the Razer Nostromo, so would check review of the Nostromo before buying one, cause I got no idea if the software is still shit.
28/03/2012 at 11:37 Blaaaaaaag says:
I’ll never understand why some folks insist that a device based on a typewriter is somehow perfect for every gaming situation. Sometimes you need an analog move switch, WASD is not precise enough for all purposes.
28/03/2012 at 11:42 Dominic White says:
This needs repeating: No matter how fancy your gaming keyboard, it probably has approximately the same range of inputs as an antique typewriter. Modern gamepads offer 5+ axes of analogue control, often analogue buttons on top of that, and in the case of the PS3, six axes of motion-sensing as well, albeit not very accurate, on top of 14 or so digital inputs.
The mouse is a great pointing device, but its usefulness ends there.
28/03/2012 at 12:29 RakeShark says:
Could not have said it better myself, good sir.
28/03/2012 at 15:49 DrGonzo says:
I’ve never played a game where WASD wasn’t sufficient. For example, GTA4 you have a ever so slight advantage with a controller while driving, though I still prefer the keyboard. But on foot you have an absolutely mahusive advantage.
There are racing games. But they suck with a pad compared to a wheel. So by your logic game pads suck at everything. Oh I guess there are fighting games, oh no an arcade stick is better.
28/03/2012 at 16:55 CptPlanet says:
So despite the fact that you have an advantage on GTA on both foot and driving it still “sucks” at everything…you contradict yourself in the same comment.
28/03/2012 at 19:38 Falcon says:
I can name two real world examples off of the top of my head, games I’ve played both on controller and KB/M. (I prefer KB/M for most of the games I play.)
Batman: Arkham Asylum: The game controlled very well with KB/M except for not having analog control during fights. If there were 2 or 3 enemies in the same area (say down + back, or A + S) it was anybody’s guess which one I’d go for. I had multiple times where I had combos end prematurely because I couldn’t pick exactly which direction I wanted to attack next. The combat system felt great and analog really is better in that case.
Mirror’s Edge: This is a game where it’s very nice to have analog movement both in the direction you’re going and exactly how fast you’re going. Some routes become nigh impossible with a KB/M, so for the best flow or for going for best times in trials, KB/M is pretty much out.
I’m happy that there are some companies experimenting with motion controls and analog + mouse control type devices. Hopefully someone will come up with something fantastic and I’ll get the best of both worlds.
And again, to make it clear, there are many, many games I wouldn’t want to play on anything other than KB/M. Any RTS, MOBA, MMO (although Tera does feel pretty slick with a controller for melee classes, admittedly), etc. However, in anything which has movement as a primary concern or gaming mechanic, digital input fails hard. Can you more than likely scrape by with a keyboard in those situations? Sure, but it won’t be nearly as good of an experience.
28/03/2012 at 11:55 frightlever says:
I fought against using a controller for years but as I get older I find it a LOT easier on my wrists and hands than using M+K. There’s also the lean forward/lean back argument. Good luck using a M+K slouched back on an easy chair in front of your big screen TV – although I do wish there was a neat way to M+K while reclining for older games with less than optimal controller support.
X51 under the telly – you know it makes sense…
28/03/2012 at 12:56 ThinkAndGrowWitcher says:
Dear lurkalisk,
I do hope you get to read the replies above before departing for your Easter holiday (possibly via bi-plane, and a moustache-jigglingly bracing penny-farthing ride).
Do note that you yourself mention one (of several) extremely useful advantages of gamepads: “pressure sensitive buttons”…
However, I do understand that you may be one of the few who prefer the binary acceleration method afforded by certain types of electric wheelchair or colourful toddler vehicle.
29/03/2012 at 01:03 lurkalisk says:
How exactly are pressure sensitive buttons useful? Like I said, I’ve never seen an even vaguely useful application of such a feature.
That’s the point I was making, while there are unique features of game pad, a few of which have some degree of potential, I have never encountered a game that requires or plays better with anything that a keyboard and mouse doesn’t provide, whatever potential game pads have is completely wasted. Yes, game pads usually have analog sticks, but what good does that do? It’s rare that movement is somehow helped by anything greater than an 8-way input, and on those rare occasions, said analog control is just used for silly little things like lock picking minigames (which can just be done with a mouse).
It’s fine if a game pad suits someone else better, but to say that one simply works better is ridiculous, at least until someone makes a game that actually makes good use of something pressure sensitive buttons, or makes analog movement at all beneficial
28/03/2012 at 15:06 dr.castle says:
Oh come on. A lot of games are designed around analog control, where pressing the stick to a different degree=a different input to the game. The AC games are definitely like this–there’s a lot of running along rooftops/narrow areas (well there was in AC2 at least) and being able to finely control the character with an analog stick is almost essential. In addition to third person platforming like this, I’d also never play a racing/driving type game with a mouse and keyboard…the analog input it too essential there as well.
28/03/2012 at 15:50 DrGonzo says:
There aren’t any points in the AC games where analogue movement has mattered though. You always just need to be going as fast as possible.
28/03/2012 at 15:27 fish99 says:
Stop making excuses for them, there’s no reason why any game can’t work well on both a gamepad and mouse/keyboard. Not putting in mouse/keyboard controls is pure laziness and just shows how little of a damn UBI give about the PC.
28/03/2012 at 16:01 jezcentral says:
Come on, Fish. You posted this way ages after the article was updated.
28/03/2012 at 15:45 DrGonzo says:
In your opinion. Remember that.
29/03/2012 at 11:58 Beva says:
Gamepads work better with FPS and RTS games, at least.
28/03/2012 at 09:21 thestage says:
I was about to post “I don’t see any split infinitives!” but then you changed the post and got rid of that part, foiling my reverse grammar police fun :(
28/03/2012 at 09:24 galen says:
I was about to do the same, except point out that the only split infinitive I could see was John himself writing “to angrily stomp”! How embarrassing.
28/03/2012 at 10:13 LennyLeonardo says:
Ah, the classic example from Neil Armstrong’s famous “To angrily stomp” speech.
28/03/2012 at 11:09 Oof says:
I spit on split infinitives.
28/03/2012 at 11:14 The Tupper says:
I boldly spit on split infinitives.
28/03/2012 at 15:53 Milos says:
I bloodily split on spit infinitives.
28/03/2012 at 09:21 kikito says:
What PC gamers really need is crappy and intrusive DRM.
28/03/2012 at 09:42 Simon Hawthorne says:
Amen.
Nobody buys the Assassin’s Creed games to play them on their PC. They buy them to test the reliability of their internet connection and their own patience.
Ubisoft basically sell Buddhist meditation tools.
28/03/2012 at 09:21 rei says:
If the previous games have been fine being played with MKB, there’s no excuse for the same not being true for this one.
28/03/2012 at 10:20 Unaco says:
People will complain anyway.
28/03/2012 at 14:00 MarcusCardiff says:
@Unaco
Anyone who thinks complaining is wrong deserve to get ripped off by being sold crappy half working rubbish for inflated prices.
28/03/2012 at 14:05 Unaco says:
I don’t think complaining is wrong, if it’s justified. Rei said that the previous games were fine for M/KB. So, there shouldn’t be any excuse for people not finding AC3 fine for M/KB… if it’s the same in AC3 as previous games, there should be no new excuses or reasons for complaining about it. But, now that there’s a post/news story about it, people will complain.
28/03/2012 at 11:39 suibhne says:
The previous games have mostly played well with KB/M setups…but the fixed-camera sections in the temples was sheer torture. Those could have been designed to work with KB/M, by not placing the camera at off angles, but Ubi chose not to do that. I assume this means they’ll make the same choice again – hardly a surprise, considering that this problem cropped up consistently (tho rarely) in the last three AC games.
28/03/2012 at 14:15 InternetBatman says:
This right here. An analog stick is probably better for the parkour stuff. But it takes only slight adjustments to make the game much more playable on keyboard and mouse and a lot of developers don’t even think about that let alone take the effort.
28/03/2012 at 09:22 RedViv says:
I still find peculiar that, within such a short span of my PC gaming life, players “in general” have completely turned around their stance on gaming peripherals. Mid-90s, having a lot of them was the sign of the hardcore PC gamer, and ten years later, it was the repulsion at the sign of any game being more playable with a gamepad. Because, you know, consoles.
28/03/2012 at 09:24 CMaster says:
Indeed, a Gravis Gamepad was recommended by id Software for the Keen games.
PC mags used to be packed with peripheral reviews when I was a child.
The “mouse and keyboard or nothing” attitude seems to fail to recognise that well, M&K are crap for some things.
28/03/2012 at 09:35 SanguineAngel says:
I don’t think it’s mouse & keyboard or nothing but more mouse & keyboard at least
28/03/2012 at 09:36 catmorbid says:
I’ve always found mouse and keyboard perfectly suitable for any type of game, and have never bought or used or wanted to use any type of controller WITH THE EXCEPTION of driving games and flight simulators, both of which I recognize the idea of a dedicated controller, simply because of the simulation aspects. I play neither games, so there’s never been a need to have such a controller, though.
28/03/2012 at 10:11 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
Clearly you have never played QWOP.
28/03/2012 at 10:40 Crainey says:
Very much the same, I am used to using my M&K and as such I do so, always. Anyway, my brother either lost or broke all the controllers so I guess my arguement is invalid then.
Not to mention I’ve invested heavily in said peripherals in both time and money (time being amount of hours spend gaming with them).
28/03/2012 at 09:54 Cinek says:
Game that requires specific controller != game that has too lazy developer to make proper PC controls
28/03/2012 at 10:37 Llewyn says:
Yeah, all those lazy flight and racing sim developers, eh?
28/03/2012 at 12:41 Cinek says:
Flight sim is exactly the example of game that requires dedicated controller. You know: planes have joysticks inside too.
Same with racing games.
Random action/killing game doesn’t belong to this category. Not with the level of simplification AC has.
28/03/2012 at 15:31 InternetBatman says:
Two things. One is they’re putting keyboard & mouse in anyways. They’re pretty much just saying it won’t be good.
The other is that this is a game with four antecedents that had keyboard and mouse controls, not DDR, Wii Fit, or Red Steel 2. It doesn’t require a specific type of input.
Think I might have read the tone of your post wrong though.
28/03/2012 at 12:02 frightlever says:
I played Doom with a joypad, which was logical after a youth spent playing on the Atari 2600 (oddly I took to the callous inducing joystick like a duck to water, despite being introduced to telly gaming with the Binatone Pong roller thingy). I was HIGHLY sceptical about playing ANYTHING with a MOUSE. Then Quake came out and I 180′d. Obviously M+K was the ONLY way to play game, with LMB for fire and RMB for run. It was YEARS before I accepted WASD.
But good luck playing Mavis Beacon Typing with your fancy controllers! Unless it’s one of the ones with a keyboard clipped on.
28/03/2012 at 15:36 fish99 says:
I think you’re wrong, a lot of PC gamers own a 360 pad and don’t mind using it on PC on the games where it works better, stuff like Super Meat Boy, Limbo etc. The specific objection PC gamers have to pads is when people claim they’re as good as mouse/keyboard for FPS which they clearly are not.
The bottom line here though is that a game not supporting keyboard/mouse at all is just plain unforgiveable laziness and/or greed, especially for a game with a huge budget. If tiny indie companies can find the time to program pad and m/k support, there really is no excuse for UBI. And as others have said, the other AC games work fine on m/k, so there is no excuse.
28/03/2012 at 09:22 Yachmenev says:
He´s right to say so, and Team Meat says the same about Super Meat Boy every time you start that game. People who game on PC should invest in a gamepad. I have no problems with Ubisoft saying this.
28/03/2012 at 10:14 VelvetFistIronGlove says:
I foolishly followed Team Meat’s advice and used the controller to play Super Meat Boy at first. After a while I switched to using the keyboard and found it much, much easier, especially to pull off tricky jumps.
Maybe that’s because I grew up playing platformers with a keyboard, and not a controller (never had a console (or a gamepad) until recently). But at least Team Meat put excellent keyboard controls in their game.
28/03/2012 at 12:14 bsplines says:
I actually have the exact opposite story. I finished World 1 with the keyboard and didn’t have many problems or deaths (apart from the boss at the end – first part in ages that made me rage). Going to World 2 I would usually die 50 or more times in every stage, slowing the game to a snail’s pace as I would need up to 15 minutes for a single stage and sometimes even more.
When I reached stage 2-7 (or something like that) I started using a gamepad and within an hour I had reached the boss getting A+ scores in half of the new levels as well as succeeding in two of them in the very first try. Using it on the previous levels also improved my timing.
So I guess is more to preference than anything.
As for the AssCreed games I played II using both options (not at the same time) and found them to be perfectly workable. The game was easily playable with a KB+M.
28/03/2012 at 12:43 Cinek says:
+1 @ VelvetFistIronGlove
28/03/2012 at 10:28 HilariousCow says:
Yep. You design games based on the interface. I have found that trying to design for multiple interfaces for the same game results in a venn diagram: one circle represents “what interface A is good for”, the other represents interface B’s strengths. The game has to fit somewhere in the intersection. This intersection is not always as large as people would like to believe. As a result, the design/interface/mechanic/kinaesthetic possibilities available to you where both interfaces really work become more limited than if you’re just working with one target. Although… I guess it has fuzzy edges, too: it’s POSSIBLE to port a game onto an ill suited interface, but it’s also probably a waste of consumers’ time? Or occasionally has hilariously cool results? Typing of the Dead springs to mind.
Heck, I’ve cut (or recommended cutting) really lovely touch screen features because there was not a perfect analogue for the interface when using a mouse. Touch and Mouse might seem similar enough to assume you can do the same thing, but there are enough subtleties there that if you try to conflate the two, either version of your game is going to come off as a lazy port of the other.
The benefit of multiplatform engines like unity or unreal can actually become a bit of an albatross for a developer: “your engine works on every platform! porting is a cinch!”… well, technically, yeah, but interface wise, to do a game justice, you kind of have to start thinking about the game from scratch. Re-use assets, sure, but the gameplay has to arise out of the affordances of controls rather than the controls doing backflips to accomodate ill-fitting gameplay.
28/03/2012 at 11:49 MD says:
I never understood the Super Meat Boy gamepad thing. Everyone and their uncle insisted that a gamepad was essential. But I’m pretty sure there was no analogue control, at all. What can you do on a gamepad in SMB that you can’t do with two hands on a keyboard?
28/03/2012 at 12:03 frightlever says:
Avoid carpal tunnel syndrome?
28/03/2012 at 13:50 mouton says:
Well, I look at it differently: how many games that I want to play require a pad? The answer is, very few – a lot of gamepad oriented games are poor console conversions that I have no interest in playing anyway. There are some special titles like SMB, but they alone do not mandate the purchase.
So no, PC gamers in general “shouldn’t” invest in a pad. Still, it is advisable if they like pad oriented games.
28/03/2012 at 09:22 CMaster says:
He’s stood on the ridge of that roof John. He’s probably a lot safer W ing (at least for a short distance) than he would be S ing. Calm down!
28/03/2012 at 09:22 DanPryce says:
“Absolutely. And while I realise that many can’t afford to just add a 360 PC controller to their arsenal, I’d say it’s becoming an essential piece of equipment for the modern, well-groomed PC gamer.”
That’s assuming a 360 controller will work with AC3. My experience with 1 and 2 is that 360 controllers don’t work, which is a shame because mouse/keyboard is kind of fiddly for AC. The number of times I’ve activated StickyKeys in combat…
28/03/2012 at 09:25 Kdansky says:
Don’t have sticky keys activated, ever? You are complaining that an optional functionality that helps disabled people write letters is bothering you when playing games.
28/03/2012 at 09:26 MaXimillion says:
You can, and should, deactivate the shortcut for sticky keys as one of the first things you do with a new windows installation.
28/03/2012 at 09:30 BwenGun says:
IIRC they actually fixed the Xbox controller thing for Revelations. (Only took them two games to put into the game what fans had already modded in.)
28/03/2012 at 09:30 SanguineAngel says:
Also, by what definition is essential? I have a lot of games across a lot of genres and I can’t think of many where a controller would be really beneficial. In almost all cases, the mouse and keyboard control scheme is totally preferable. Especially for action games such as these. Mostly sports games are what comes to mind when I think controller.
28/03/2012 at 12:25 iniudan says:
Platformer tend to be easier with gamepad also. (especially if you don’t have an n-key roll over keyboard)
28/03/2012 at 12:30 Mattressi says:
Yeah, about the only games I can think of that would benefit from inputs other than a mouse and keyboard are shmups, racing games and flight simulators. And, really, of those only shmups would have controllers as their optimal input method. Oh, and I guess sports games, but they aren’t real games anyway – go join a bloody sports team :D (half kidding…but seriously, it’s like making a game about cooking a regular dinner – just go do it if that’s what you want to do)
For something like Assassin’s Creed, surely mouse and keyboard would be the optimal input method if it was implemented properly? Anything that involves vaguely aiming at something, for me, requires a mouse and keyboard, but maybe I’m just bad at using gamepads?
28/03/2012 at 09:23 wodin says:
COntrols for AC have always been a massive pain for me, jumping off walls when I didn’t wnat to etc. My biggest gripe of the game. I remember when using controllrs was OK for a PC, I had botheJoystick and controller at one point.
Infact aren’t controllers pre console controller?
28/03/2012 at 09:28 SanguineAngel says:
Yes but there has been a history of supporting both control methods, accepting that not everyone would have a controller of joystick. Even space sims and hardcore flight sims who favoured joystick controls when they were big and practically everyone had one still had to support mouse and keyboard
28/03/2012 at 09:24 Torticoli says:
“I don’t see us investing hugely in a mouse and keyboard setup”
Allow me to quote TotalBiscuit’s response to that :
“Well I don’t see me investing full price for your game”
Honestly, when did it become acceptable for gamers when you develop a PC game (be it a port or not, who cares) without tight, PC-specific controls ? Is this a joke I’m not getting ? If I want to play AC with a controller, I can, in fact, play it on my console. Do developers require me to plug a mouse and keyboard in my console in order to properly play FPS games ?
Seriously, guys, come on…
28/03/2012 at 09:30 Alexander Norris says:
Mouse and keyboard are not the better control option for everything. Third-person action games have always been better played with a pad than mouse and keyboard. Really, it makes as much sense to claim you should play AC with m+kb as it does to claim you should play an FPS with a controller.
28/03/2012 at 09:41 Torticoli says:
You’re right, m+k is superior to a controller in some instances, and the other way around in others. However, in this case, it’s debatable which method is the best, and what I’m saying is that developing a PC game without PC-specific controls (or at least, without focusing on them) sounds preposterous to me.
I’ll also quote what’s been posted here by Cinek : “It’s BS like that which made Skyrim PC interface come to life”. I tend to agree. I’m not a fan of the slippery slope argument, but in this context, I can’t help but think we’re actually seeing a slippery slope unfold. Developers are already… well, developing, a tendency to not care about the PC platform, providing poor control schemes, poor ports, poor options (terrible FoV comes to mind) and bad consolified interfaces ; we shouldn’t let them get away with crap like this.
If they want to develop PC games, is it really that ridiculous that we demand they include PC-specific controls in their game ?
28/03/2012 at 09:36 mondomau says:
What about flight sims? Driving games? They’ve been around on PC for years and a lot of them have minimal keyboard support, because it isn’t the optimum configuration for the game and is often a nightmare to implement.
28/03/2012 at 09:49 Derppy says:
Keyboard lacks analog control, so it’s inferior for moving your character in games. I totally understand developers not wanting to invest much time in keyboard controls for a game like Assassins Creed, where the game is all about movement precision and you don’t need a ton of buttons.
PC isn’t a fixed platform, it’s not one system you buy that comes with one controlling method. It’s a pile of components you use with the peripherals you want. Keyboard and mouse are naturally a popular choice, because they are very effective in browsing and managing a ton of data. They are also great in certain kind of games, but that doesn’t mean it’s the preferred control method for all games.
They didn’t say there won’t be keyboard/mouse support, but they said they won’t put so much effort to it, because it’s not a very good controlling method for their game and I totally support it. Not only for saving resources for the actual game, but also for getting PC gamers to buy gamepads so they might realize PC isn’t something that has to sit on your desk, plugged to a monitor and used with only mouse and keyboard.
Try building a beefy HTPC to plug into your TV and equip it with a gamepad, you’ll notice some games play much better that way and your gaming console becomes obsolete (except for exclusive titles, but exclusivity to inferior system sucks anyway)
28/03/2012 at 14:32 InternetBatman says:
Developers should invest the amount of time in proportion to the amount of money they’ll get out of a platform. If it takes $100k to make good keyboard controls (that’s three testers and two programmers working six months which seems like waaaay too much staff and time), that’s 2400 steam buys of the new product. So, if they have just 5000 customers (a tiny amount) that use the keyboard and mouse and buy it at $60, there’s no reason why they shouldn’t properly port it to keyboard. Instead it’ll probably be a lazy port.
28/03/2012 at 09:55 c-Row says:
Did TB reply that to this particular issue or to something completely different and you are just paraphrasing? I remember that he supported the idea of having a controller to fully enjoy some games of late in one of his mailboxes, and I can fully support this opinion for games like Skydrift or Sonic Generations. Not being arsed to try and implement a good KB&M control scheme with the excuse of a proposed controller setup is rather weak indeed, though.
28/03/2012 at 10:08 Screwie says:
That line is from TB’s twitter account, verbatim.
28/03/2012 at 10:10 c-Row says:
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
28/03/2012 at 10:57 Prime says:
Well that just makes TotalBiscuit sound like a TotalBerk. Overreacting, much?
28/03/2012 at 13:01 MasterDex says:
Well his point was that if Ubisoft are unwilling to put in the effort to deliver a decent port, why should he be willing to spend money on the port?
It’s one thing to say “This game is better played with a controller” and another to say “We don’t care about those who want to/can only use kb+m”
28/03/2012 at 09:25 SanguineAngel says:
I love the PS3, absolutely, and any games I may produce in the future will definitely support it. But I don’t see myself investing heavily in control pad support. If you want to play my games on the PS3 you will want to use a mouse and keyboard.
I realise it’s not new but it is not good. I enjoy assassin’s creed but I don’t particularly enjoy using a control pad – I suck at using them for one. The fact is that the mouse and keyboard is the native control for the PC. Controllers cannot and should not be taken for granted. It wouldn’t be acceptable the other way round would it?
28/03/2012 at 19:47 SkittleDiddler says:
No, it wouldn’t be acceptable, yet here you are considering it:
“If you want to play my games on the PS3 you will want to use a mouse and keyboard.”
28/03/2012 at 09:25 Kadayi says:
Played all the others using a controller tbh (similarly FO3). No biggie.
28/03/2012 at 09:25 MerseyMal says:
I much preferred a joystick for games on my ZX Spectrum because most games were in 2D or basic isometric 3D.
One of the main reasons I play PC games is that I’ve never got the hang of operating controllers for 3D first/third person games. Personally, as long as it’s still playable via keyboard & mouse I’ll be sticking to it.
28/03/2012 at 09:52 Prime says:
Q, A, O, P and M! Joysticks were for flight sims and for making Daley Thompson run. For everything else, QAOP and M was king.
28/03/2012 at 12:26 terry says:
Ehhh, my O and P keys were busted for so many years, I ended up using 6789 and 0 :P
28/03/2012 at 09:26 Khalan says:
Never understood why some people refuse to use anything other than mouse & kb (if they have a choice). Sure, mouse control is superior for FPS and RTS genres and I’d hate to use anything else, but I also use a joystick for sims and a gamepad for action adventure type games (and I used to use a wheel for driving). Some games like AC and Batman just suit a gamepad much better.
One other point – a 360 controller is much better quality than most other gamepads I’ve had through the years, both in durability and ingame support. YMMV of course.
28/03/2012 at 09:26 Tusque D'Ivoire says:
Actually, there are very few PC games that are not just fine with Keyboard and Mouse. I know I’m the minority and unnessessarily hostile, but I have never and just can’t work with controllers. To my mind, the mouse still has significant advantages, even in 3rd person action games (Batman, Assassins Creed, GTA)
28/03/2012 at 14:23 ThinkAndGrowWitcher says:
“…but I have never and just can’t work with controllers”
And that my good sir is bullsh!t of the highest order: there’s nothing intrinsically more difficult in learning to use a twin-stick controller than learning to coordinate a mouse and keyboard together.
What you should have written is:
“…but I have never and just won’t work with controllers”
To my mind, your mind is playing silly games with itself (possibly using dual-analogs), and short-changing its ability to quickly adapt to a control method that is superior under certain gaming circumstances (though, of course, certainly not all).
Note: this is from a once mousing-only gamer who used to be called “grandad hands” due to their wonky 360-gamepad control. Give yourself a single solid hour and you’ll easily get to grips (literally) with using a decent gamepad on PC for games that it most definitely suits best.
28/03/2012 at 09:28 BwenGun says:
To be honest if I can play a game on my PC with a controller, within reason, I will. In the past couple of years I’ve played Batman: Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, AC1, AC2, ACB, ACR, Skyrim, GTA IV (And all DLC), Red Faction Guerilla, Just Cause 2, Bastion, The Witcher 2, and currently Kingdoms of Amalur. Though admittedly with Skyrim I played it with a controller only when not going with my archer character as archery is a pain with a controller.
The thing is unless I’m playing an FPS or Strategy game using a controller allows me to lean back in my seat, or hook my computer up to my TV and play in a much more chilled out fashion. Not to mention that many games just play better, imho, with a controller. Asssassin’s Creed and Grand Theft Auto being prime examples.
28/03/2012 at 09:28 Alexander Norris says:
The problem is that the previous games haven’t been fine with a controller either. Altair and Ezio had a nasty habit of ignoring your controls and jumping off rooftops to their deaths for no reason. :(
If they’ve fixed that for AC3 though, it ought to be good.
28/03/2012 at 09:29 Antlia says:
Flight simulators work best when played with a joystick, too.
28/03/2012 at 09:30 Zeliard says:
Whoever doesn’t have a controller at this point may as well invest in one for Dark Souls. :)
28/03/2012 at 09:30 catmorbid says:
Yes, of course, mouse is the most inaccurate pointing device in existence and a standard keyboard with it’s ~104 keys is completely inferior input device for anything except slow typing of things called words, known in ancient times to be used to compose verses of information that could be even spoken aloud by the wise. Versatility and remapability of the ancient keyboard is of course vastly inferior to the ~10(?) button 360-controller, which if wanted to use to input letters and words takes mere 1000% longer than a simple keyboard.
28/03/2012 at 10:34 mendel says:
Mouse control is analog, but has no center. Hence, driving with a mouse doesn’t usually work well.
If you need analog controls that have a fixed neutral position (e.g. for controlled movement), controllers are good.
Mouse is good for looking (any look direction is stable) and aiming.
Keyboard is good for one-handed digital control.
So these controllers are suitably *different* to make any of them worse than the others in certain situations. Citing situations where mouse and keyboard excel does not change the fact that there are situations where they don’t.
28/03/2012 at 09:30 Cinek says:
I disagree with making excuses for the guy and supporting idea of “PC gamers should get Xbox controllers”.
It’s BS like that which made Skyrim PC interface come to the life.
28/03/2012 at 09:39 RedViv says:
No, that’s just Beth’s laziness due to their “Eh, PC modders will fix it anyway and the game will still be bought” attitude.
28/03/2012 at 12:13 Runs With Foxes says:
Sorta like Ubi’s laziness due to their ‘eh we’ll sell most copies on console anyway’ attitude? Kind of like that?
28/03/2012 at 09:30 PitfireX says:
Every day is another middle finger to hardcore gamers.
P.S. What ARE they going to invest in? Obviously not new ideas.
28/03/2012 at 09:33 DOs says:
I’d argue that if you’re a hardcore gamer you have a gamepad for your PC and you use it for the right games. Hardcore is often misinterpreted as clinging on to something “just because”.
28/03/2012 at 11:46 Sheng-ji says:
I couldn’t agree more!
28/03/2012 at 15:37 InternetBatman says:
I generally just interpret hardcore gamer as idiot anyways. No one says they’re a hardcore gardener, hardcore philatelist, or hardcore moviegoer. It’s just a term that has its roots in xenophobia and elitism.
28/03/2012 at 09:34 Yachmenev says:
Mouse and keyboard is not what defines hardcore gaming. It´s the game in themselves. And Assassins Creed are light action adventures that have been designed for gamepad controls from the beginning. Games that really should be played with gamepads or joysticks is not a new thing on the PC.
28/03/2012 at 10:28 bfandreas says:
I don’t consider anybody who isn’t knee-deep into the init files and owns at least two drawers full of different control mehtods a hardcore PC gamer. So please turn in your “hardcore PC gamer” badge in on your way out.
When Wing Commander 1 was released, we bought a Sound Blaster.
We bought the full shebang for our various flight sims. I never even dreamed of playing X-Wing without a proper analogue joystick. Thrust, flightstick and pedals were a given when we played Jane’s F15.
We bought 3DFX VoDoo cards for our 3d games.
We bought Gravis Joypads for various id games.
We upgraded our 386 for Doom.
This is PC gaming where you can choose the right tool for the job. We are not locked in like console gamers are. Indeed I welcome when games support controllers when it makes sense. Bastion is a blast when played with one.
…and in this day and age when you don’t have to calibrate the axis of any analogue stick anymore, complaining is just lazy.
I propose the term “limp-wristed PC gamer” instead.
28/03/2012 at 10:35 AndrewC says:
I would suggest ‘fundamentalist’. The modern rage against controllers is entirely tribalistic, and based on fear.
Obvs. a better word for ‘hardcore’ might well be ‘obsessive’, but we all have our problems.
28/03/2012 at 11:31 SanguineAngel says:
But all of those things were optional. Sountracks were made available in MIDI and Sound Blaster for years. Flight and space sims included often in depth keyboard & mouse controls. Heck I remember when mouse controls for games started being used – all games seemed enable keyboard only controls too. Early 3D games usually had a 2D option. Even Thief & Half Life didn’t require a 3d card.
Regardless, Ubi ARE integrating KB&M – just pretty badly/half heartedly.
28/03/2012 at 09:31 MiniMatt says:
Bloody whippersnappers whinging about kempston wobble. Till you’ve suffered the TERRORS of ZX81 ram pack wobble you’ve had it easy :o)
28/03/2012 at 09:31 NathanH says:
I’ll accept this as soon as someone makes a cross-platform game and says “we’re not really investing in controller support, just plug a mouse and keyboard into your XBox”. Of course, nobody is going to say this, because “cross-platform” is code for “made for consoles; PC gamers can have some crumbs”. I have no intention of waving the white flag to controller bullying.
Fortunately, it gives me a good way of filtering out games I have no interest in playing.
28/03/2012 at 09:32 Cytrom says:
There is a difference between a game being designed around a certain control mechaism (flightsims are better with joystick, platformers and fighting games are better with controllers, racing games better with a wheel, etc) and being too lazy to develope a PC user interface for a game that would work perfectly with keyboard & mouse.
This is just Ubisoft taking a dump on PC gamers like usually, there is no Controller specific gameplay in AC.
28/03/2012 at 09:33 Syra says:
Well he’s right you know, most ubi games, pretty much all third person adventure games that don’t need a fine aim of a gun and ESPECIALLY the assasins creed series are fucking awful with mouse and keyboard. You can get by but really why would you want to. That’s why I stick to ps3 for those titles..
28/03/2012 at 09:47 SanguineAngel says:
But that’s surely because Ubi have never properly supported M&KB controls. Because I can tell you for sure that M&KB works just fine for 3rd Person Action games and that I actively prefer them over a controller – given some care and thought, Assassin’s Creed would play perfectly with M&KB – native control support really ought to be the minimum for bringing a game to any format.
28/03/2012 at 10:52 Beva says:
Surely it’s because gamepads have analogue sticks, which makes movement of a character in a third person game analogue. It doesn’t matter how much effort you put into controls (it matters in general, ofc). At the same time, regardless of how much effort you put into FPS gamepad controls they will always be better with M/KBm simply because a mouse is vastly better for aiming.
28/03/2012 at 11:42 SanguineAngel says:
But if you play an FPS game on a console, you would still expect the developer to have produced a coherent control scheme using the controller, adjusting to it’s limitations and perhaps ideally capitalising on it’s advantages as well.
I concede your point regarding analogue sticks but they are going to have to cope with that limitation REGARDLESS because they will still be integrating M&KB controls. Instead of doing a half hearted job and saying “It’s your fault for not owning a control pad” they could spend a little more time and effort and adjust the controls to cope with being on a different system.
Time was that developers often created a whole new game for a different format. That’s not necessary anymore but it certainly gave the impression that they cared.
28/03/2012 at 15:21 Beva says:
Ok…
But they ARE giving you KB/M controls that most people here seemed to be saying were/are fine, no? The point is that AC is better suited to a gamepad just like any number of games are better suited to the KB/M combo. It’s just the way it is. So, if someone is interested in playing games that work better with a gamepad, there is really no reason for them not to own one.
28/03/2012 at 10:27 DodgyG33za says:
I avoid third person shooters like the plague. I thought it was just because of the lack of immersion, but now I come to think of it they do play bloody awful. You can get the same experience with FPS if you don’t use the strafe key.
I have nothing against using other controllers if they work for the game – after all I remember a time of analogue joystick ports which from memory predated the serial mouse (at least for me), but if it is just because they can’t be bothered to port properly it is a bit sad. Not that I will be buying this one either way, but it has put me off buying any sequel to Skyrim for much the same reason.
28/03/2012 at 09:34 Ian says:
I don’t think not bothering so much with mouse/keyboard is as bad if they WARN you that it’s the case.
28/03/2012 at 09:37 Grimsterise says:
won’t be “investing hugely in a mouse and keyboard setup”
Proper response: “You better or I won’t buy your game.”
28/03/2012 at 09:37 HisMastersVoice says:
For God’s sake, Ubi, you have very good m/k controls in all four of your previous games in the series. If you’re going to tell me something has changed, you better tell me why, and not try to sell a clunky control tool on me “just because”.
I’ve played AC with m/k from the beginning and I can change running directions in full sprint with split millimeter accuracy, thank you very much.
28/03/2012 at 09:38 WebFusion says:
It’s interesting to me how many “hardcore” pc gaming sites are simply giving a pass and/or going along with these not-so-subtle pushes to shoehorn PC gaming onto the console model. As the person above said, if I wanted to play games using a game pad, I would play them on a console.
I wish PC Gamer, and RPS would start being strong advocates for the platform they’re supposed to represent, as opposed to just accepting the drivel that these companies are feeding them.
Meh – what’s the point. At this rate, the only games left that are being produced for the PC are MMO’s. BF3 has convinced me there’s not a “hardcore PC” publisher of AAA titles left. PC gaming isn’t dead, its games have just been dumbed-down, homogenized, and trivialized to fit the IQ/attention spans of console gamers.
28/03/2012 at 09:42 Yachmenev says:
You´re so off, if´s not even funny. Do you actually read the articles on RPS? PC gaming is thriving.
28/03/2012 at 09:42 Zeliard says:
Good grief, just buy a controller and plug it in. This notion that PC gaming = keyboard and mouse at all times is lunacy. The platform actually supports a variety of controller inputs, unlike consoles. Make use of that fact.
It’s pretty silly for Ubisoft not to support kb/m but to act like using a controller is teeth-gnashingly awful console idiocy is fairly ridiculous. You aren’t debasing yourself by using one.
28/03/2012 at 09:46 Khalan says:
Agree completely but bear in mind that KB/M is actually fully supported for the game.
28/03/2012 at 09:49 Torticoli says:
When I buy a very expensive gaming PC, with very expensive peripherals, I expect to be able to play PC games with them. I don’t expect to be required to buy a damn console controller in order to play them.
I’m sorry, but while your argument is valid (a PC has the advantage over a console to be able to plug in a variety of control methods), I just can’t accept this ridiculous situation of being required (not just having the option, being required) to buy a console controller in order to play PC games. It’s ridiculous. Options are fine, but coming out and openly saying “we’re developing a PC game, and we expect you to not play it with PC-specific controls” is ridiculous to me.
28/03/2012 at 09:52 Zeliard says:
Thanks Khalan, didn’t see that edit in the article. And Torticoli, the game supports kb/m. It’s just optimised for gamepad, which as a third-person action game isn’t too surprising. It should still be perfectly playable with kb/m.
28/03/2012 at 10:04 Prime says:
In the context of Assassin’s Creed, which is not a “PC game” as you’ve claimed but a multiplatform title, leaning towards pads for their control scheme is justifiable. It’s an option they’ve taken. It’s a choice that they feel fits the game they’re making. They aren’t suggesting you use one for Anno 2070 or The Settlers, are they? No.
The beauty of the PC platform is that it can be whatever developers want it to be. It’s criminal that beat-em-ups left the platform for a while. That never should have happened. We should have been buying pads to support this genre but while the PC was associated so heavily with M+KB these games weren’t being made for us. Some games are just better with a pad. Microsoft – or someone of note on the PC platform – should have been promoting them so that PC owners would naturally come to regard them as essential parts of their controller toolbox.
Finally, if you can spend a fortune on a PC then surely less than £20 on a pad isn’t going to break the bank?
28/03/2012 at 10:24 Yachmenev says:
Gamepads have not been exclusive to consoles since the early 80´s. It´s wrong to call them console controllers.
28/03/2012 at 10:46 mendel says:
$600 PC – must-have.
$60 game – good value for the money.
$30 controller – what an outrage!
28/03/2012 at 11:45 SanguineAngel says:
I was pretty wealthy when I built my computer. I am not anymore. Value is based partly on circumstance.
Edit: Also, the computer can be viewed as an essential item (if you are going to play pc games), the games can also be viewed as essential expenses so that you can actually play them. A game seems more like an unnecessary purchase. I already HAVE the computer, I already have the game. Now they want me to go out and buy another third party product.
28/03/2012 at 09:53 LennyLeonardo says:
Yeah, nothing says “I’m a strong advocate of PC gaming” like implying that the only thing that differentiates your PC from consoles is the controller. Good work.
28/03/2012 at 12:20 Runs With Foxes says:
And the real problem is that previously proud PC players, like those who have replied to this above, simply can’t see it. Or they prefer it. In which case there’s not much hope left.
28/03/2012 at 13:35 LennyLeonardo says:
Or they disagree.
28/03/2012 at 09:40 rb2610 says:
It’d be like playing an RTS on a console and expecting it to work well on a gamepad, or trying to play Guitar Hero with a gamepad, sure you can shoehorn it in, but it’ll be poorly implemented and difficult to use. The AC series just doesn’t suit a kb/m very well, at least they’re actually releasing the game on PC and hopefully on time.
It seems similar to people who refuse to make the change from XP to Win7, stop being a technophobe and holding back gaming technology.
Not that gamepads should be supported over kb/m, but where appropriate people should expect to have to use hardware that gives the optimal experience in a particular game. Any gamer worth his salt who plays a variety of genres should have a gamepad of some description. (Although fair enough if all you play is FPS, RPG and RTS games)
Why are people saying a keyboard’s multitude of buttons is an advantage? AC only uses a few buttons, is not an MMO that requires seventy-billion shortcuts, anything more than around 12 buttons is superfluous in this case.
Also, Assassin’s Creed is a movement based game, not an aim based game, so what matters most is what your left hand is doing, on a gamepad, it’s pretty much dedicated to movement on an analogue input, on a keyboard it’s divided between movement and additional controls and is restricted to digital input, it’d be like using the d-pad over an analogue stick.
28/03/2012 at 10:48 mendel says:
Well said, especially your last paragraph.
28/03/2012 at 09:45 LuNatic says:
If they mean “We recommend a controller because it better suits this style of action game”, then that’s fine by me. If they mean “We recommend a controller because we can’t be arsed properly implementing mouse and keyboard support”, then I have a problem with that. It’s kind of hard tell which is the case from the wording of the article.
28/03/2012 at 09:57 LennyLeonardo says:
I might be reading it wrong, but it seems to me that rather than “we can’t be bothered to implement proper mouse and keyboard support”, they’re saying “we think this game is better suited to pads and are designing the control system accordingly”. Which is fair enough, if that is what they’re saying.
Edit: it appears that rather than reply I have chosen to repeat exactly what you said using different words. Still, worth repeating, maybe.
28/03/2012 at 12:21 Runs With Foxes says:
You’re handling Ubisoft’s PR very well for them.
28/03/2012 at 13:35 LennyLeonardo says:
Fuck off you condescending prick. That good enough PR for you?
28/03/2012 at 09:46 SurprisedMan says:
I don’t get it. What happened, PC gamers? Back in my day having a controller in your PC gaming set up, and a joystick was pretty much business as usual. Have PC gamers got so grumpy about anything vaguely console-y that nobody has a controller anymore?
28/03/2012 at 10:25 Yachmenev says:
The internet happened. Having a strong opinion is more important than what the opinion really means.
28/03/2012 at 12:39 iniudan says:
Just wish it was easy to still find cheap reliable joystick in store. Not feeling safe to order the cheaper joystick on the net, since it the kind of hardware I want to see the build quality before buying, but if I had the money order a quality joystick like a X-65F I would order in an heart beat.
28/03/2012 at 09:49 Innovacious says:
I just wish 360 controllers were not THE standard. I really prefer the layout on PlayStation controllers and a lot of generic PC controllers that sort of follow the same design. At the moment I’m actually using a 3rd party ps2 controller with a USB adapter for my controller needs.
I guess its because the PlayStation controller was the most used controller in my life and i just got used to that. When i was younger we had a Commodore 64 and Amiga PCs so i used mouse+keyboard or joysticks. Of the actual consoles with controllers I’ve had over the years (mega drive, ps,ps2,xbox 360,ps3) the ps and ps2 were the most used by a long way.
I STILL much prefer the feel of using a mouse for view movement (and menus n whatnot of course), but understand the use of analogue sticks for player movement, its more fluid and allows for varying speeds. Is there any sort of keyboard out there with a analogue stick in place of wasd? Thats the ONLY thing i feel i really need from a controller over a keyboard.
28/03/2012 at 09:50 Zeliard says:
Just use MotioninJoy. It emulates a 360 controller perfectly. That’s what I do with my Dualshock 3.
28/03/2012 at 10:39 Beva says:
I second Motioninjoy, once you set it up it works wonders, only thing is that you will have to adapt to the 360 pad button prompts. (X is A, O is B etc.)
28/03/2012 at 10:42 Zeliard says:
Sure but the button placements are basically identical. :P
28/03/2012 at 10:46 mickygor says:
Which is all well and good if you know where they lie on an XBox controller.
28/03/2012 at 13:36 Zeliard says:
Well yeah, but it’s four whole button placements you need to become accustomed to. A B X Y. The rest are identical. Should be a quick study for most, I would think.
28/03/2012 at 10:58 Beva says:
Yeah, it is.
I rather meant that sometimes, if you have no idea which x-box button is which, it might make it slightly hard to know what you are meant to do when a game says: “press Y now”. It’s not a HUGE issue.
28/03/2012 at 19:41 paterah says:
You can get a Logitech F710, it’s almost like a PS controller but with Xinput and Xbox buttons. it’s very recommended if you don’t like the xbox one. It’s the only PS style controller I’d recommend for PC.
28/03/2012 at 09:52 mondomau says:
I must say, I’m quite surprised at how many members of the ‘screeching irrational entitlement’ club and the ‘not actually reading the article or doing any background research’ society there are present today. I’m all for lambasting Ubisoft for the many (many) genuine dick moves they pull, but this seems like a.) not that unreasonable an attitude and b.) not actually news, since it’s really just a rationale for the approach they’ve used on all the other AC games.
28/03/2012 at 09:57 kud13 says:
I have terrible coordination, and I absolutely suck at using gamepads, Probably because i’ve never owned a console in my life.
The fact that Ubi recommends a controller for AssCreed is one of the main reasons I never played any games in that series.
If you’re making a game for PC, you should ensure that it works well with the primary method of input used by a PC,
Otherwise, not only do you lose sales, you also hurt your own reputation. Oh wait, this is Ubisoft……
28/03/2012 at 09:58 Doubler says:
The previous games were perfectly playable with mouse and keyboard, I don’t see AC3 being so radically different that it’s impossible now.
The strength of the pc platform is diversity, and this counts in peripherals as well. By twisting this to mean that everyone is expected to have the proper peripheral ready for particular games you’re doing the platform a massive disservice. It won’t exactly help the accessibility of PC gaming either.
And ultimately M&K is the only thing you can expect every PC gamer to have. Anything else is targeting a niche.
Personally, I simply find controllers uncomfortable to use, so being able to use something else is a must for me.
28/03/2012 at 09:59 Ceyoda says:
I guess I’ll pirate the game now because the money I had that was to be used for buying the game, had to go towards a controller to optimally play the game. The universe has balance.
28/03/2012 at 09:59 Sivart13 says:
I have played the previous four games in the series with a wired Xbox 360 controller and have enjoyed it.
HOWEVER, something about my particular wired 360 controller makes AssCreed mad, and I generally have to rebind all the buttons when I start playing a game.
WHAT IS EVEN WORSE is that in Multiplayer it doesn’t seem to allow all the same binding opportunities, so I’ve never been able to puff around in assassin’s creed multiplayer.
So yeah… get it together, eh, yobi soft. Or I’ll just buy a different controller, some day? I don’t know what’s wrong with this one.
28/03/2012 at 10:00 Dowson says:
I imagine this means they’ll continue with what they did previously, you can play it with a keyboard, but that is not the best idea because a pad is better.
Seriously, its 2012, you can’t tell me you’re a PC gamer and don’t own at least one gamepad.
28/03/2012 at 10:01 SanguineAngel says:
I can. I am. I don’t.
28/03/2012 at 10:05 Dowson says:
Must be awful intentionally handicapping your choice in games.
28/03/2012 at 10:13 SanguineAngel says:
Well that’s ridiculous. Even here, AC3 will still be playable using a M&KB setup. I think people are mainly up in arms at the idea that major devs are dismissing the idea that they should put the effort into accommodating for a system’s native control input. Which is fair enough in my view and I happen to agree.
I have yet to come across a game I have been unable to play simply because I didn’t spend out for a controller.
28/03/2012 at 10:17 NathanH says:
There actually aren’t very many games that are easier to play with a controller you aren’t used to using than with a mouse and keyboard that you are proficient with.
I’d be up for learning to use a controller when they start making games for Mouse & Controller, since mouse is just the best tool for controlling view.
28/03/2012 at 15:41 InternetBatman says:
Same here. I liked the wii nunchuck for controlling movement, and I think a button mouse would do fine for the rest.
28/03/2012 at 11:53 Apples says:
I haven’t owned a PC gamepad since about 1996 and I’ve never been unable to play a PC game because of lack of controller. I even played SR2 without one and it was fine! I guess for those who are super into difficult gameplay that requires infinitesimally small movements it will be a problem but it’s not exactly at the level of ‘handicap’ for most people.
28/03/2012 at 10:14 Kadayi says:
Indeed. There’s a lot of stuff that works a lot better on a controller than on M&K.
28/03/2012 at 10:56 RakeShark says:
I’d say for example: Sports games. Especially baseball, hockey, and foot-to-ball FIFA games. I used to use a damn joystick for NHL99. With the MLB2K series, I finally broke down and bought a gamepad, made the game much more enjoyable to play.
I sure as hell wouldn’t play a FPS without a M&K, mostly because that’s been refined to an exact science. But I make no apologies for dishing out a few dozen bucks for a racing wheel, foot pedals, joystick, and gamepad to enjoy my games.
28/03/2012 at 10:00 SanguineAngel says:
Allowing my rage to calm down, I suspect this simply means not much will change. It won’t have amazing PC specific controls (which is a shame) and will play better on a controller. I would like to see some more effort made to integrate PC controls into all games on the PC. I don’t mind if it controls BETTER with a controller but this just highlights a general attitude to PC porting which is a bit slap dash.
28/03/2012 at 10:06 sophof says:
One of the nice things of PC gaming is that you can plug in any controller. These days I also think a lot of gamers will have the xbox controller for their PC. I don’t think mouse/keyboard is so normal because PC-gamers are so adamount about it, I think it is that way because not properly supporting mouse-keyboard unnecessarily reduces the amount of potential customers. The lack of effort it takes to support it hardly ever makes it worth to ignore it, so I don’t really get this statement from them.
If you really think the experience is better with a gamepad, you can always take the super meatboy approach or something similar, informing the player.
I’m pretty sure the reason why fligt sims and space sims didn’t survive was because of the distinct lack of affordable flightsticks, that kind of shows the danger. Throwing up another barrier for your game is bad PR, no matter how much sense it makes.
28/03/2012 at 10:16 Etherealsteel says:
I don’t see the big deal really, unless they totally take out KB/Mouse controls, which they aren’t. We all know a Race wheel or flight stick is better than using a KB/Mouse in racing or flight games. Don’t get to ruffed up on this, but do fight any heavy DRM restrictions.
28/03/2012 at 10:24 Jimbo says:
PC wins because you can play everything in the best way possible, not because you can stubbornly insist on playing everything with M&K, no matter how inappropriate it is for the game at hand. Now, if they were doing a half-assed job of supporting M&K in a FPS, that would be a different story.
28/03/2012 at 10:26 MrStones says:
Why can’t we just find the better for everyone (well me at least) middle ground offered by controller AND mouse. I when possible will use half a DS3 controller in my left hand and a 5 button mouse for in my right. This gives me 14 buttons (16 if you don’t mind stretching for start and remapping the Ps button) which is more than enough for most games.
Unfortunately a lot of games seem to realise this is how I like to play and now disable either the controller or K&M when the other is selected forcing me to chose between one or the other.
/dreams of a day when we say “nav and mouse” and keyboards are for typing only.
28/03/2012 at 10:28 DK says:
I wouldn’t have a problem with that statement if what he said was actually true. It’s not though. What he MEANS is “PC Players need an Xbox 360 Controller”, because devs are too fucking lazy to code any other gamepad support but the microsoft gamepad. All the other gamepad implementations are always absent or halfassed to the point of uselessness.
28/03/2012 at 10:37 Zeliard says:
Again, you can emulate other controllers into a 360 controller easily. Games that support 360 controllers will think you are using one, including giving you the proper button prompts. The Assassin’s Creed games in fact do just that.
28/03/2012 at 11:00 mendel says:
I found it easy as long as all you want are digital controls. I tried getting my Thrustmaster gamepad to work with Need For Speed World, which only supports Xbox gamepads, and failed to get the analog sticks working. If all I can get are digital controls, I might as well keep using the keyboard.
Maybe you’re using a tool I haven’t heard of?
28/03/2012 at 10:32 mickygor says:
Alex Hutchinson says I don’t want to play Assassin’s Creed. Incidentally correct, but who is he to assert my stance? It sounds like post rationalisation to say that 100% of your market already has a controller peripheral.
28/03/2012 at 10:32 ain says:
Not like I’d buy a console port anyways.
28/03/2012 at 10:45 Azhrarn says:
Personally, I prefer to use Keyboard and Mouse, but there are certainly instances where a controller allows for greater enjoyment.
My personal favorites would be games that behave similarly to say, Darksiders or The Saboteur on PC, both have “adaptive” control schemes, that switch seamlessly between controller and keyboard and mouse as dictated by the player.
For instance running and gunning in the Saboteur is much easier with mouse and keyboard, but driving works much better with a controller, and the game will switch all button prompts, in-game control references, between mouse and keyboard and controller, depending on which you touched last.
Unfortunately, games that do that are fairly rare.
28/03/2012 at 10:46 airtekh says:
The point to this is not whether any one control scheme is better than another, it’s that PC gamers should be given the choice of which control scheme to use. Whether one is better than another is a matter of personal preference.
I’ve used KB+M for the entire Assassin’s Creed series, and I love it. I could quite easily play the game using the 360 pad on my desk, but I don’t because I prefer playing these sorts of games with mouse and keyboard.
28/03/2012 at 11:08 Llewyn says:
Then you should be fine, and it’s probably a non-issue for you. This doesn’t appear to be any different from their stance on the previous AC games – the mouse works but they believe it’s better with a controller, and that’s the interface they’ve designed it for.
28/03/2012 at 10:47 RegisteredUser says:
Of all the things, this oddly enough is something I can’t get worked up about.
Not only is this a non-news item(we’be been getting fed “press start to begin playing” and “don’t turn your machine off while you see this” and button mapped tutorials for YEARS, this is hardly any news at all), its neither something new nor something ultra-sensible to begin with.
The sad fact is that pressing 3 or 4 keys at once leads to a beeping error on a keyboard, but not any issue with a controller.
Things like checkpointing vs anytime saves are a much bigger console vs PC issue, or not being allowed to customize settings, mappings, FOV, mod the game, etc. Not with which device it plays best.
We used to have steering wheels for driving sims and Thrustmasters for flight sims!
I agree though that while playing with gamepad the mouse and kb shouldn’t be disabled. If you are going to have guns or anything at all to aim with, having a mouse(like e.g. in GTA or saints row) to quickly flip to for shooting is near indispensable, because controllers just plain suck for quick precision aiming.
TL;DR: A controller doesn’t have to be a console thing; its just another HID.
28/03/2012 at 10:50 CaspianRoach says:
>The sad fact is that pressing 3 or 4 keys at once leads to a beeping error on a keyboard, but not any issue with a controller.
Buy a better keyboard. 3dollar keyboards save on button logic by not allowing lot of keys to be pressed at once. You can press up to 10 and more keys at the same time on a gaming keyboard.
28/03/2012 at 10:48 CaspianRoach says:
Controllers are SLOW. I can’t stand the camera slowly panning around when you need to do a 180 degree turn. To suddenly change the movement/camera direction I need to shift the stick from one position through the center to the mirror position. It just takes loads of time. It takes zero effort to start moving your mouse in a different direction and the movement is recorded instantly and precisely. Gamepads are shit for camera movement. Playing with controller is akin to playing 3D game with arrow keys on a keyboard. It’s just inferior.
28/03/2012 at 10:50 mendel says:
You ought to get a stick that is not operated by a crank.
28/03/2012 at 10:56 CaspianRoach says:
Even if it is easy to shift around, you can’t argue that it isn’t instantenous. All the camera movement on gamepads is also acceleration-based as opposed to velocity-based mice. I don’t want to have to wait or guess when will the camera reach the spot I need especially since when it speeds up it’s impossible to stop it in the spot you want. There’s no such issue with a mouse, it’s a constant smooth direct velocity copy multiplied by a specific not changing sensitivity factor.
It takes more time to turn precisely on a gamepad and it sucks.
28/03/2012 at 11:03 Beva says:
Ok sure, but it’s not like instant camera movement actually matters in a game like AC, or for that matter Batman, DMC or any other 3d person game that isn’t based on looking straight forward (like Skyrim).
This means that analogue movement is the important bit, which regardless how you look at it, is better on a gamepad.
28/03/2012 at 11:08 CaspianRoach says:
I’ve played through Batman, AC and DMC and never have I found the urge for analogue movement. Okay, sure, fine, there was one time and one time only in AC2, there was a rooftop race that handled horribly, Ezio was always sticking to the walls I didn’t want him to stick to and I think analogue directionality would help there but NEVER have I ever found the reason to “move slower” to be an option. 8-direction movement choice COUPLED with great and precise camera to compensate for lesser degree direction worked really great. I have an analogue movement thanks to my mouse.
And yeah, you can’t do that kind of thing in DMC but you don’t really need to since 95% of the times Dante just sticks to the closest enemy in his vague general direction and that’s all you really need.
28/03/2012 at 11:24 Beva says:
Fine, it works for you, I on the other hand find that it works as well as gamepads work for FPS games, ie. not as good at all. You are WILDLY off on DMC (and now that I think about it Darksiders as well, seeing as both those games have you lock onto enemies rendering the camera movement practically useless, also if they do port Dark Souls, and you have any interest in it you WILL care about movement speed as well), you don’t need Dante to just vaguely attack the enemy closest to him, seeing as that would kill you on anything resembling a fun difficulty setting, and even more importantly suck all the combat engine nuance out of the game.
28/03/2012 at 11:35 CaspianRoach says:
Well I guess that’s because I find the DMC camera mode not to be very effective. It feels wrong for me to have the direction keys to change their direction based off camera when you depress a button. I guess I’m just not a console fan.
28/03/2012 at 11:15 mendel says:
You lament that you cannot turn your avatar as smoothly and accurately with a gamepad/joystick as you can with a mouse. That is not caused by the gamepad being “slow”, but by the way the game interprets your inputs – moving my thumb from left to right is pretty much instantaneous, as fast driving games would suggest, and noticably bad camera controls are mostly due to digital inputs. Analog sticks allow my to intuitively control the rate of turn if they’re well-implemented; it may be slower to do a 180° turn, but it doesn’t feel “arrow keys” clunky.
Your talk about velocity and acceleration is off, though.
28/03/2012 at 11:25 CaspianRoach says:
Well I guess different games implement it differently but the thing is gamepads are where mouse acceleration came from as in the longer you move the mouse the faster your movement on screen is. That is bull. Even if the camera is implemented in a smart non-accelerating way it’s still limited by the amount of how far you can shift your stick to. There’s a lot more choice of camera speed with a mouse. I can turn it a few pixels a second or do a 720 degree spin in a moment if I want. That just feels liberating.
And as I said you can achieve the same directional variety if you use your mouse to correct the camera while you move. Granted you can only move in 8 directions based off your camera view but it still can be precise if you shift your camera say 10 degrees and just walk straight from there. How many times you honestly needed that ability to look 0-45 degrees to the side? I’m okay with trading that off for better targeting.
It would be really awesome if there could be some middle ground, as in analogue movement controls plus mouse targeting. I would buy such a controller if it was widely supported.
28/03/2012 at 10:57 MrStones says:
Eh is playing with the arrow keys that much different from WASD? Not counting other surrounding buttons?
28/03/2012 at 11:00 CaspianRoach says:
Left and Right are usually bound to “Turn Left/Right” as opposed to “Strafe Left/Right”. I’ve seen people playing Doom and DN3D with these and it was just pathetic. And I’m not talking about using arrow keys + “,” and “.” or Alt+direction to strafe, I’m talking about just not using strafe at all.
28/03/2012 at 10:50 skinlo says:
Because I’ve never owned a console and hate controllers with a passion, I’ve learnt how to do most things on a keyboard and mouse. I found Assassins Creed 3 quite easy on a keyboard, as long as its like the previous ones I’ll be fine.
28/03/2012 at 11:01 poisonborz says:
I think most of us PC gamers realized it a long time that a controller is more or less a must. And honestly, I really couldn’t play a platformer or a racing game with mouse/keyboard anymore. If this is the price of PC ports (and I think implementing a new interface/control scheme is no small feat) then everyone should invest in one.
28/03/2012 at 11:27 Vorphalack says:
If, like me, you play predominantly FPS / RPG / RTS then the 360 controller is very much still optional. In the vast majority of titles that I own, I would consider a controller to be a hinderance.
28/03/2012 at 13:11 InternetBatman says:
I think your just mapping your own beliefs to larger market of PC gamers. I for one hate dual-analogs and its one of the large reasons I never liked consoles, but that doesn’t reflect PC gamers in one way or another.
28/03/2012 at 11:11 Harzel174 says:
I think it’s a pretty fair compromise in the larger view of things: more console ports to the PC, but PC owners are expected to have a gamepad (or at least not expect a polished keyboard interface). Especially since the original game was designed with a controller in mind. And when PC users use that modular design and versatility (re: ability to even have the easy option of a gamepad) as basis for why their platform is awesome.
Just don’t go all Darksiders on us.
28/03/2012 at 11:22 Jarol says:
Am I the only one who actually loved playing AssCreed with a keyboard and mouse? As more things got added, things started to become a little finicky (selecting weapons out of a huge radial menu), but it never hindered my enjoyment or play through.
When I go ahead and switch to my 360 controller, it feels unnatural and slow. The idea here is that I love having the camera move where I want it to go and precisely at that. Movement, combat, and menus all seem pretty damn well done even after all these renditions. The only thing I fail at with these controls is the ability to walk at a given speed, but that never seems to be a problem, just a minor blip.
As long as they retain the same old controls from the very first game I’ll be fine. Having a dev tell me how to play the game outside of my comfort zone isn’t going to make me change it.
28/03/2012 at 11:26 Carra says:
I’ve played Ass Creed: Brotherhood a few months ago with my X360 controller. I was pleasantly surprised at how good this game runs on my 4 year old PC. Definitely a good port.
28/03/2012 at 11:37 Symbul says:
It’s crap. Not because it’s new, because anyone who’s ever played an AC game knows that it’s a pretty basic port and has never worked ideally with KB/M, but because there’s no reason it shouldn’t work well with a keyboard and mouse. I’m so fucking tired of games that still only offer analog controller-style targeting when you have a completely functional mouse. AC isn’t the worst offender, this is a classic port issue (Darksiders, Prototype were worse for example) but it’s not the symptom of a superior peripheral. They’re just lazy/cheap devs/publishers.
I have a 360-style controller. It’s not that. I’m just really tired of sloppy and lazy port jobs that under-utilize the platform’s advantages and I am voting with my wallet.
28/03/2012 at 11:43 CaLe says:
Some games are just better with a controller. This makes sense.
28/03/2012 at 12:05 CaspianRoach says:
Racing games and platformers. Not Third Person “Shooters” (Stabbers?).
28/03/2012 at 12:15 mondomau says:
Bullshit. Plenty of third person action games are as good, if not better with a controller.
28/03/2012 at 12:22 RakeShark says:
Are you suggesting that Third Person games such as Sly Cooper or Metal Gear are hindered without Mouse and Keyboard?
I’ll admit in a perfect world every game coming to PC would have had full and comprehensive M&K control schemes that have been tested and tweaked over and over again to make the best use of them, but let’s be a little practical here. I can’t fathom fighting against a badly implemented control scheme when a much smoother and tailored control option is available.
28/03/2012 at 13:13 InternetBatman says:
Assassin’s Creed is a platformer at heart.
28/03/2012 at 13:31 InternetBatman says:
Some games are, but not Assassin’s Creed. If PC people wanted a port of something where the input method is a huge deal, like Red Steel 2 or DDR or Once Upon a Monster, it would be safe to say that the input would not translate. But this is a platformer, a platformer with guns, and platformers are at about the same disadvantage on a PC that shooters are on a console.
Instead, we’re getting a shit port by a group of people that don’t understand or want to take the effort on it, and they’re saying that midway through development.
28/03/2012 at 11:46 Dominic White says:
I’d just like to point out that a USB-cabled 360 controller (the most natively supported gamepad in existence, with almost all modern PC games even changing the button prompts to match the color-coded buttons) is £18 at Play.com – http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/19278992/Microsoft-Xbox-360-Wired-Controller-for-Windows-Black/Product.html?searchstring=360+windows&searchsource=0&searchtype=allproducts&urlrefer=search&cur=257
If you’re playing something like Assassins Creed 3 at anything other than minimum detail, chances are you have a £500+ gaming PC, not counting monitor and peripherals. If you’re too cheap/grumpy to spend £18 to vastly increase the range of games you can comfortably play, then you deserve every frustration you find.
28/03/2012 at 13:22 Moorkh says:
Of course a game designed for/around a specific (even if inferior in precision, ergonomics and fidelity) input device will work best on that. (They would, however, work a lot better yet if they supported a more precise, ergonomic device.)
But you’ll have to see that justifying this development highlighted by Ubisoft is a slippery slope.
The joypad is, for various reasons, the least common denominator among gaming input devices.
Next, someone could argue that:
- you’d best use a TV for a game designed to play on a TV
- you’d best sit on a couch for a game produced for couch sitters
- and of course that it’s best to be a clueless consumer to optimally enjoy games designed for clueless consumers.
28/03/2012 at 11:50 RagingLion says:
Just to say I really want to play this game and almostly certainly would want to play with a mouse and keyboard since I don’t own a controller.
This does make me wonder if I should buy one, but maybe I’m put off by 10 years of perfecting using this interface compared to be quite amateur with a controller – nowhere near as deft. But should I force myself to learn?
28/03/2012 at 11:52 MD says:
At least they’re being up-front about it. Better than pretending to have KB+M support, but somehow fucking up the mouse input completely, as with a lot of console/PC games.
28/03/2012 at 11:53 Suits says:
So.. basically the same as the other AssCreed titles
28/03/2012 at 12:11 Oritxupolite says:
I hope someone invents a keyboard and mouse that is comfortable to play from a couch. I solved this problem with a custom table …. . I put my PC in my living room with a 720p projector 9 years ago and a custom table to play with mouse and keyboard . I played games in HD from the time of the XBOX – Doom 3, Far Cry, Half Life 2, Splinter Cell, Chronicles of Riddick Mafia or GTA3 …. in a 100-inch screen . After Crysis , Stalker , Arma 2 in 1080p with mouse and keyboard
With my table you can even lie down in the couch and use the keyboard and mouse , I used the PC in the projector to surf online, write in forums like in this moment , edit text, video, photos, watching video, TV …. . I do not need a IPAD, I’m more comfortable with my table in my chair and large 100 “screen.
I think that is impossible to bring the PC – a complete PC – to the HDTV without keyboard and mouse , will only be a bad substitute .
For some years I see many PC gamers use a 360 gamepad to use the PC on the HDTV to gaming . Is the reality , gamepad cannibalized PC gaming space in many genders , and will be very dificult change the trend .
This is the first big barrier to PC gaming and PC real use in the TV .
It is not fundamentalism or fear . Right now I’m writing lying on the couch with mouse and keyboard . I do not like wasting time with interfaces designed for defective imput , as the interface on the Xbox Live, Skyrim or The Witcher 2 and other games.
Not fear of the future, on the contrary, the industry needs to find a driver to use the PC on the TV . A gamepad, a TV remote control or even Kinect is not the solution. We’re wasting time if we do not use a mouse or a keyboard , at least one touch screen to interact on the web and PC, it is a substitute that never worked and will never work.
This does not mean that the keyboard is the best way to control movement in a game, an analog stick is better. But no one has created a keyboard with analog control or at least a pressure-sensitive keyboard for operation with a mouse.
But I know this is not the solution for everyone. People need something more simple than a table. So for years I follow the topic on the Internet. Unfortunately, nobody solved the problem correctly. Phantom keyboard was a bad solution. Logitech keyboard for Google TV is another poor solution, with a touch pad.
The best solution is often the simplest. Just a small keyboard with a mouse tray, with the bottom padding to be comfortable. The mouse can be connected to the keyboard, to not fall.
There are another options … like a small mouse in a finger combined with a small controler like the controler Wii 2 etc . Or the trackball in a gamepad . Or a touch screen with 1ms of latence …
I can not believe that anyone in the industry has addressed this need. Perhaps more interesting is to sell other input devices, to have a not complete experience of PC on HDTV and to inducing the people to have a laptop, a desktop PC, a tablet, a HTPC, a console, a handheld and a mobile phone , each with different accessories.
28/03/2012 at 12:13 Unaco says:
I agree with John, on this one, singular thing.
28/03/2012 at 12:17 terry says:
I own and use a 360 controller, but pretty much exclusively for games that have terrible keyboard bindings, and 2d games with momentum that favours analogue control. Something about having free control over your viewpoint in a 3d environment feels instinctively right to me, and thumbsticks are a poor substitute for that.
I think it probably makes sense in the context of the AC series where fluid control over freerunning is more important than aiming fidelity.
28/03/2012 at 12:26 Xiyng says:
Oh what nonsense. Personally I was just fine with PC controls in the first game, as well as in Revelations – maybe even more so than with a controller (II, Brotherhood). To put it short, there was nothing wrong with controls in the game and mouse look is just that much better to me.
28/03/2012 at 12:29 Khemm says:
AC creed games – at least 1, 2 and Brotherhood, because these are the ones I played – work perfectly fine with K&M, I never ever felt the need to hook up my 360 Controller for Windows – I did try to play with it for a while, but I could never rotate the camera fast enough.
Like I said, I already have a controller (and a joystick for sims), so it’s not an issue. PC gaming is about diversity and the possibility to use every peripheral under the sun.
28/03/2012 at 12:32 Ridnarhtim says:
“While I realise that many can’t afford to just add a 360 PC controller to their arsenal, I’d say it’s becoming an essential piece of equipment for the modern, well-groomed PC gamer.”
Why did you have to add the 360 there? Why should everyone have to have one of those cursed, wretched, low-quality things? After going through about 3 of them in a few months, I bought a Logitech Rumblepad 2, and it’s superior in every way.
That sentence would have been perfectly written as “many can’t afford to just add a PC gamepad to their arsenal…”
28/03/2012 at 13:36 Llewyn says:
I have to wonder what you were doing to them. My Xbox is a month shy of four years old and its original controller still works just fine.
28/03/2012 at 13:49 Ridnarhtim says:
Using them the same as every other controller I’ve ever owned. My PS2 controllers from 10 years ago still work fine. My xBox360 controller all break through use. Not dropping them, or throwning them, or excessively mashing them – bumpers stop working, sticks start squeaking, wireless connections keep dropping … They are dreadfully, horribly poorly built.
In all my years of gaming, which include a SNES, N64, PS2, Gamecube, xBox360, PS3, Wii and a few computers, the only controllers I have ever broken are one PS2 controller (by throwing it at a wall in a fit of GTAIII-induced rage) and about 5 xBox360 controllers through what I would consider normal use.
28/03/2012 at 12:34 Runs With Foxes says:
Seems like a lot of people are missing the point here. The issue is not whether everyone should own a gamepad nowadays or not.
I remember RPS being very critical of Skyrim’s poor PC optimisation. Yet here we have Ubisoft openly admitting they’ll do a half-assed job of the PC port, and everyone nods and approves? We’ve grown accustomed to settling for PC ports, and now we’re growing accustomed to sloppy PC ports.
Now when AssCreed3 comes out with a terrible PC interface and control scheme, all the reviewers will say, ‘Well, the controls aren’t great, but they said as much before release, so it’s totally fine, 10/10 great spectacle!’
Open your eyes and stop eating the shit Ubi’s feeding you. I have a 360 controller and use it quite a bit, but I can see this for the preemptive PR crap that it is.
28/03/2012 at 13:46 InternetBatman says:
Absolutely this. Keyboards are at a disadvantage when it comes to platforming, but the gap can be significantly closed with good playtesting.
Take Shank for instance, a terrible console port where they didn’t even bring your keybindings into the hint messages, and they bind to weird stuff like the j key. The game became fifty or sixty percent easier once I played with it a little bit, and remapped the settings to the number pad because that worked better. Or Ultimate Spiderman, where the QTE’s for one fight were impossible for me unless I rebound the controls.
They’re just saying that they won’t do that process of finding optimal controls because it takes time and they don’t care.
28/03/2012 at 13:55 John Walker says:
It’s not about being a bad port, it’s about the controls the game is designed to be played with.
If the game was poorly optimised for PC, or had no mouse for menus, or had no mouse/keyboard controls at all, then we’d loudly complain. If the menus were as atrocious as Skyrim’s, then we’d rightly kick off.
28/03/2012 at 14:07 Moorkh says:
And yet you support their decision to design a game around an input device that is clearly not as suited to navigate a 3D space as another, as widely available one by arguing that further interactions are more suited to the device the game was designed around? That’s called wagging the dog, you know?
28/03/2012 at 15:15 Runs With Foxes says:
But poor mouse and keyboard controls is part of that poor optimisation. This quote
“I don’t see us investing hugely in a mouse and keyboard setup.”
is an admission that they could put more effort into it, but they simply won’t invest in making their product better. That shouldn’t be acceptable. It might well be true that analogue sticks are a better control method for this game, but that’s also an excuse to half-ass the port.
It’s like Remedy’s old excuse that Alan Wake wasn’t suited to the intimacy of PCs so they weren’t going to release it at all. We didn’t buy that for a second.
28/03/2012 at 12:41 rocketman71 says:
I have no problem with the game being polished for controllers as long as keyboard + mouse support is decent. Controllers are not exclusive to consoles.
I DO have a problem with shitty DRM schemes and lack of LAN support for the multiplayer portion, which is why I very probably won’t buy this one either.
Oh, and I have zero trust in Ubi’s word, so whatever they do say today can be the contrary of what they say tomorrow.
28/03/2012 at 12:59 Iskariot says:
If I could get used to those ghastly linear console controllers I would have bought a Playstation and an xbox years ago. I have tried many times and each and every time I gave up in disgust and despair.
When you are used to non-linear ultra fast and precise pc controllers using console controllers feels like going back in time 20 years. I feel like a surgeon who is used to a scalpel, but is suddenly limited to the use of a sledgehammer. I simply can not do it.
28/03/2012 at 13:01 Moorkh says:
I won’t play this, but then I didn’t play any of its earlier instances, not least because of their clumsy controls.
That said, I absolutely agree with the logic to support innovative new input devices.
Unfortunately, joypads are not that.
Joypads had been Nintendo’s attempt to put proper arcade controls in the hands of tv gamers. Given the restriction that they had to work if you sat on a sofa, they worked just about ok. Several evolutive stages on, they have improved a bit and have become a lot more versatile.
Of course, you wouldn’t want to have to actually drive a car, fly a plane, shoot a gun or do some work with them, because they are simply not precision tools.
What joypads are is adequate crutches for couch players to interact in a broad variety of game enviroments. They are certainly not the best input device for any one type of interaction unless the game has been specifically designed (and thus, arguably, crippled) for their use.
I applaud real innovations like Project Natal and the Wii remote, but, again, they suffer from their “general purpose” requirement.
PC input devices, meanwhile, have suffered from an appaling lack of development. Joysticks and steering wheels have all but been abandoned. With the huge advantage of a fixed surface (your desk) available, the mouse has proven superior in controlling motion- and position-based inputs. The keyboard remains unchallenged in its sheer variety of digital input options. I daresay there has not been marketed a more precise means of freely navigating in a spatial enviroment than by their combination, and the mouse is still on par with the best at navigating on a 2d surface.
But there has hardly been enough evolution in these devices. Sure, we have the mouse wheel and extra buttons, increased precision, the switch from balls to lasers in mice, and, well, macro buttons for keyboards, but that is not a lot. At the very least, I would have expected analogue keys and rotational sensors for mice.
I’d be hardcore/obsessive enough to invest not just into those but in more specialised devices for individual game / interaction types that took advantage of the playing enviroment of a PC gamer. I already have a collection of gaming keyboards and strategy controlers at home, but they never quite succeeded in their aim. I’ll give any sensible new thing a chance.
But I’ll never buy a joypad again.
28/03/2012 at 13:24 Heliocentric says:
Not much to add beyond I played all 3 games so far with the pad, but while the implementation in ass creed 1 was lacking its been perfect in the later 2.
28/03/2012 at 13:26 Post-Internet Syndrome says:
Seems silly to make a statement about this at all. If it means that they will be doing exactly what they’ve been doing with the past AC games, then all’s well (apart from that damnable mouse acceleration). This will just ignite the internet for no reason.
The only weakness of M/K in the AC games is that the navigation is limited to 8 directions. I’ve long thought that the optimal gaming device would be a half-gamepad that is held in the left hand, for navigating with a stick, and a mouse in the other hand, for looking and aiming with high precision.
28/03/2012 at 13:27 Eldray says:
I never found a console game not using motion sensing that wasn’t easily playable with suitably bound keyboard and mouse on an emulator.
The only thing you lose is analog buttons/stick, but generally you want to press them fully most of the time and a brief press tends to work like a (longer) light press.
And of course you can bind modifiers or the mouse to manage the pressure amount if really necessary.
28/03/2012 at 13:27 chackosan says:
I guess it’s easy for me to be blasé about it, since I bought a gamepad for PES and have used it for most of my PC games since, including GTA IV, Alpha Protocol, Witcher 2, New Vegas, Arkham City and Skyrim.
Unless it’s heavily dependent on point and click (like Diablo, adventure games, or strategy games) or hinges on fast movement and quick aiming (Quake III, Serious Sam), I prefer the controller – easier on the hands, the buttons are much springier than on the keyboard, and aiming with the analogue stick somehow produces more tension for me than with the mouse.
Even FPS games that are multiplatform have to be designed to be playable with the controller. Sure, playing with the k/b + mouse is obviously more effective in those situations , but less challenging and usually less fun for me. I mean, if the ‘console kiddies’ can finish those games using a controller, there’s no reason an experienced PC gamer couldn’t master the peripheral in short order.
28/03/2012 at 13:29 MadTinkerer says:
You know guys, you can get a decent controller pretty much anywhere for ~$20 nowadays. You don’t have to shell out for Xbawks or PS3 controllers or any of the fancier PC ones. Just go over to Target, or whatever the nearest equivalent is, and pick up a cheap, serviceable PC controller. The console ports (other than VVVVVV, Cavanagh), emulated games*, and Japanese imports will thank you.
*Obviously I mean legitimate compilations of classic games such as the Taito Legends collection, the various Genesis/Mega Drive games on Steam, & et cetera.
28/03/2012 at 13:45 jjujubird says:
I wonder if they have a gaming keyboard that has an analog stick sticking up from where the space bar is (you could still have the rest of the space bar split off on either side of it). That would be a pretty natural spot for it (if your left hand is resting on asdf then that’s roughly where it would be on a controller) and give the best of both worlds.
/shrug
28/03/2012 at 13:53 InternetBatman says:
Personally I’d like a mouse and nunchuck. I think with a few more iterations the wii controller could have been the best ever made. Right now we have grumpy console players sticking to dual analogs because that’s what they know best (like I feel about my keyboard and mouse).
28/03/2012 at 14:05 jjujubird says:
lol. I think there’s a couple annoying things about “needing” a controller.
a) 99% of games can be more effectively played using mouse and keyboard. There just aren’t too many exceptions.
b) of the small amount of games where a controller is more effective, it’s only one part of the whole controller that makes it so, and that’s the little analog stick. It’s not due to the shape/design of the controller, or that it has little buttons all over it.
Just makes sense to me to take that one little tiny part of the controller that is superior (in rare cases) and slap it on a keyboard. Easy fix, now you have a device that is superior (or at least equal) 100% of the time.
28/03/2012 at 13:49 copernicus_phoenix says:
It’s nice that they’re being up front about it. It would be a hell of a lot easier to give us some of the soft soap ‘the PC is our number wun platform’ PR guff that we usually get.
28/03/2012 at 13:50 InternetBatman says:
It says something about the sheer incompetency of Ubisoft’s management that he says something like this within days of the Ubisoft DRM interview, where he’s clearly trying to change the perception of Ubisoft. The feudal hierarchy comment from the last thread really strikes me as accurate since the left hand doesn’t know what the right is doing.
28/03/2012 at 14:10 jjujubird says:
Agreed. It doesn’t make much sense to throw PC users a potential bone and then turn around and say something that a lot of them will hate. Unless he was trying to soften the blow or something, lol. Probably not going to buy another Ubi product until they completely banish the DRM nonsense, so I’m gonna need more than some philosophy from their PR about DRM – I’m gonna need an absolute “no” to it.
28/03/2012 at 14:18 Adekan says:
Ubi can continue not caring about PC players, and I’ll continue not caring about the games they put out.
28/03/2012 at 14:23 Zanchito says:
- “I think if you want to play on PC and you want to play Assassin’s Creed, you have a controller.”
- I think you are wrong.
I can’t stand camera control with controllers, it’s bad enough to make me quit playing altoghether. Character movement and buttons, I can get used to (sometimes), but camera rotation…. UGHHH!!!
28/03/2012 at 17:39 Shortwave says:
I totally agree, I was trying to use the controller for the last Creed game and kept finding myself going back to the mouse when free-running cause I could actually see what was going on around me. I’ve been trying to play a lot of third person single player games lately with a controller because I have really bad wrists from carpentry work. But, it simply just doesn’t do it in the end of the day. With a mouse you “feel” like you are naturally looking around because you can move as quickly as you think nearly, with a stick you are always waiting for that input, thus halted in thought and de-immersed from the game..
Yeaaa, just my two cents on that thought.. >.<
28/03/2012 at 14:40 phylum sinter says:
It’s total pants to think any third person game involving STEALTH and FREERUNNING would work better with a keyboard and mouse. running/walking on a shift-key toggle is hardly better than the degree of control you get with two analog sticks.
I think ultimately that the bulk of pc gamers are hopelessly devoted to their control apparatus of choice, and it’s sad that they won’t see outside the bubble even on factual grounds.
The larger issue, mentioned or hinted at by a lot of the commenters here is that they feel the PC is neglected if it doesn’t have a focus on this control scheme – well, in this game, it makes sense to optimize for controller from a design standpoint, and has nothing to do with “consolitis” or any other paranoid delusion that pc games are going down the drain because they don’t focus on what they hold holy.
Get over it, it’s a design choice and nothing more.
28/03/2012 at 14:58 Post-Internet Syndrome says:
Shift key toggle? All the AC games have used the right mouse button to enter high profile, and spacebar to freerun when in that. It struck me as an excellent solution right from the start.
28/03/2012 at 15:30 phylum sinter says:
Oh it has that? I wonder if Ubi will have that in place for this game too.
I just remember awkwardly trying to sneak through a crowd and look behind myself, bumping in a guard, and then plugging in my controller. That’s when it all clicked for me.
Personal preference ultimately though, right?
28/03/2012 at 17:48 Shortwave says:
I totally understand what you are saying, it’s not illogical by any means.
But what I think ultimately what it comes down to for many people, including myself is..
That if they start doing this, they will do it again. And then other companies will follow.
Setting the example it’s okay to remove support for keyboard and mouse for ports/PC games.
That everyone will just comply and play with a controller.
Which isn’t cool, it’s not hard to implement proper PC controls..
Just like games dropping support for FOV settings..
It’s all these small things that make PC gaming unique and so great.
And if we let them pluck them away one by one, it’s done!
28/03/2012 at 14:42 Xan says:
I’v bought a Logitech F310 for the sole purpose to play third person action games such as Assassin’s Creed or Darksiders.
It was cheap, works great and can use both x-input and direct input modes so it can be programed to work with games that don’t natively support a xbox controller.
There is nothing wrong with getting a gamepad for the PC, it’s no different then getting a joystick for flight simulation games.
Now let’s just hope Ubisoft wisens up and drops their retarded DRM, DRM dosen’t increase sales, a good product and service does, just look at GOG.
28/03/2012 at 14:48 phylum sinter says:
I agree – if there’s any reason to shake your fist at UBI, it’s for their DRM schemes… not their game design or controller optimization.
28/03/2012 at 15:01 Post-Internet Syndrome says:
GOG is not a fair comparison, they don’t make games, just sell games that already have an established fanbase.
28/03/2012 at 15:07 ShadowGamer says:
i always prefered keyboards/mouse than controllers..
28/03/2012 at 15:36 VoEC says:
I always found Assassin’s Creed to be best played with the mouse and keyboard (with the 5 keys setup). I have a pc controller but I still like it better with mouse controls.
The problem for me most often is that the pc version of the game doesn’t support controllers properly (at least the one I have) which forces me to play it with mouse and keyboard.
28/03/2012 at 16:24 Urthman says:
I understand most people like controllers best for these kinds of games, so I’m not going to cry about this kind of thing.
But personally, I don’t own a console and almost every game I want to play is fine with K+M, so I’ve never had the opportunity or desire to develop any proficiency with a gamepad. I’m just way more comfortable using my fingers than my thumbs. I managed AC1 & AC2 with M+K, I’m sure I can manage AC3 as well. I just hope the interface isn’t any less mouse friendly than the previous games.
28/03/2012 at 17:08 Frank says:
Meh. Since the days of Sands of Time and BG&E, Ubisoft have had a pretty good track record in porting for keyboard-mouse, so I’m not worried. He’s just the creative director; what does he know, eh?
28/03/2012 at 17:14 Robin_G says:
I played the second one with mouse and keyboard. Seemed fine. I’m sure a controller might have been slightly better. But at a certain point, not being aware of the standard input on a platform you make games for is just lazy. Like all those terrible games they cram onto handhelds and phones that clearly were made for another control scheme. Luckily, AC2 bored me to tears about half way through so I can hold off spending any more money or fiddling around with adapters to make my wireless controller connect properly.
28/03/2012 at 17:23 CelticPixel says:
If you drove around Liberty City or rescued Bandage Girl with a mouse and keyboard, you’re an absolute loony.
May all your key mappings be reset.
28/03/2012 at 17:24 Shortwave says:
They don’t have the time to effort to support and keyboard and mouse on PC, cool.
I don’t think I have the time and effort to pay for this game to be honest.
A PC game that doesn’t support keyboard and mouse, really?
The funny thing is, I have two xbox controllers just for PC.
But I just don’t feel right letting Dev’s think they can do that.
In one sense, they are forcing people to need a controller.
In another sense, they are cutting off their market for those who can’t afford one or want one.
In another sense, they are setting an example to other devs that keyboard and mouse support isn’t important anymore and they can get away with not caring about it.
I dunno’ no matter how I look at it, it’s not a good thing.
And yea’, a day of age when keyboard and mouse support isn’t standard on PC is a sad day.
28/03/2012 at 17:39 rapier17 says:
I’ve managed fine with the other Assassins Creed games up till now with a keyboard & mouse, AC3 will probably be fine.
However if it didn’t I’d be in a pickle. I can’t use controllers for periods of time as my finger joints start to lock up. When I helped a friend complete RE5 (for the umpteenth time – bloody trophies), there was one dreaded quick time event I couldn’t do because my joints had locked up. He spent several attempts doing it himself with both controllers whilst I tried to massage life back into my fingers which remained stiff for the rest of the day. I do realise I’m an oddball case in that respect but I do hate using controllers.
Actually this reminds me of MW2, in a way, where the back cover of the PC version, if I remember correctly, had Mouse & Keyboard support listed as a main feature of the game.
28/03/2012 at 18:13 Zenicetus says:
“But if the developers believe their game is designed from the ground up to be played on a controller, that seems entirely fair to me.”
Sure, it’s their game and they can do what they want with it. If they’re not going to support mouse and keyboard (i.e make it just as easily playable), then it’s also fair for me to pass on it.
What they’ve done here, is to guarantee that a certain percentage of their potential audience will now wait to read reviews on how it plays on M&K, instead of pre-ordering or buying on release day. Nice move, guys.
“Would I prefer there to be investment in superb mouse/keyboard controls too? Yes I would. Do I hate it when writers pose questions to themselves to offer balance? Absolutely. And while I realise that many can’t afford to just add a 360 PC controller to their arsenal, I’d say it’s becoming an essential piece of equipment for the modern, well-groomed PC gamer.”
Horseshit. It’s just lazy programming and an excuse to streamline console porting.
Some of us “well groomed PC gamers” still have a pile of other controllers attached to our USB bus, like a joystick, throttle, pedals, and TrackIR for flight sims. I have enough trouble as it is, keeping those things from fighting each other or loading in different order on bootup. I’m not going to add a gamepad just because one game company, or one RPS writer, thinks this is now an “essential piece of equipment” for PC gaming.
Signed, Grumpy PC Gamer.
28/03/2012 at 18:38 gwathdring says:
You bought a TrackIR for flight sims, but won’t buy a controller for games that are designed to be more streamlined for a controller (note: it will still have at least basic Keyboard/mouse support, apparently, which sounds like most other major multi-platform releases I’ve played).
You are welcome to your preferences and opinions, I just hope you understand why that is strange to me. PC gamers buy expensive computer parts, buy specialized peripherals for niche games and so forth but seem to have a rather large contingent of vocally anti-controller folks despite this. It baffles me. Is it that their are so few controller options for PC and that so few of them are of decent quality? Because I agree there; if your hand type is not really well matched by PS3 or Xbox controllers, you have few (if any) high quality options remaining. Logitech has a spotty record with controllers (their drivers have a lot of issues and I had to return a controller from their most recent line due to this really bizarre dead zone complication that as far as I could tell was not a purchase-specific manufacturing defect), and a lot of the other companies make with cheap knock-offs, short lived products, or products that don’t play nice with nearly as many games as Logitech and Xbox controllers.
So that’s a serious issue. But beyond that … what is so much more objectionable about using a controller than going out and purchasing a head-tracking device or a joystick? Specialized equipment for games designed to take advantage of different peripheral types. These games happen to be optimized for console controllers which work fairly well on most PCs even if PC gamers seem adverse to them.
28/03/2012 at 21:10 Zenicetus says:
“… what is so much more objectionable about using a controller than going out and purchasing a head-tracking device or a joystick?”
Well, the main objection relates to what I mentioned above, about already having to tap dance around USB controller assignments and conflicts for the 4 different flight sim gaming peripherals I’m already using. One more controller means more potential conflicts, and more headaches. I don’t want to go through that hassle for a single game that decides mouse and keyboard are no longer worth fully supporting.
If that tide turns, and more “PC game” developers take this route, then I might be forced into it. But we’re not there yet, by a long shot. Every non-flight sim game I’ve played in the last year has worked just fine on mouse and keyboard. This makes it very easy to pass up a single game that doesn’t work that way.
The other objection is more philosophical, I guess. Flight simulations are, duh, simulations, and they’re designed to support hardware that also simulates (very closely, in some cases) the real thing.
The Asscreed series is not a simulation, and it has no dedicated controller. Until the day that they start selling little Assassin puppets we can stealth around our computer desks, and make them climb up and down our monitors as control inputs to the game, there is no direct comparison to the way flight sim controllers work with flight sim software. Although those Assassin puppet controllers would be neat. The devs are probably missing out on some hardware tie-in promotions there.
Since there isn’t that type of dedicated controller for a virtual Assassin, a gamepad isn’t intrinsically any better than mouse and keyboard. So, support both equally..
28/03/2012 at 18:24 Radiant says:
If I’ve bought a 200 pound peripheral to play Steel Battalion I don’t really give a crap about using a 15 quid pad to play a game I don’t think I’ll even buy.
How is this even an issue.
28/03/2012 at 19:57 sinister agent says:
In the parallel world where PCs came with a controller instead of a mouse from the start, and consoles with a mouse, everyone who’s making a big deal out of how inferior controllers are here is saying the exact opposite there.
Yes.
Also in that world I a have a bacon sandwich and lovely cup of tea already, instead of having to wait for waffles to cook because some bastard stole my bread.
It is a marvellous world.
28/03/2012 at 21:11 Jahandar says:
I don’t mind using a controller for games that don’t require me to aim, I just hope it doesn’t eventually become a requirement.
28/03/2012 at 21:16 tkioz says:
I honestly don’t know what the fuss is here. Some games play better with a mouse and keyboard, some play better with a joystick, some play better with a controller. Use what suits for that game style in question.
A standard corded 360 controller like I use on my PC (purchased originally for my 360) is $20-30, doesn’t even need drivers and works perfectly on a lot of games without any configuration.
Don’t much mountains out of molehills, just use a what control interface suits the game.
28/03/2012 at 21:32 Xaromir says:
Playing AC with mouse+keyboard really sucks, there are few games that make no sense to tackle with something else than controller, and to be honest, in that context i wouldn’t mind if it would require a controller of sorts, that copy protection stuff is worse than this – far worse.
28/03/2012 at 22:03 Shooop says:
I personally can’t think of any other way to play a third-person action/platformer. You don’ t need the same level of precision as a FPS. I tried using the keyboard with Batman Arkham Asylum and it felt all wrong until I used a Xbox controller.
But of course there’s going to be a massive backlash against them for this, even though it’s not really that far-fetched. There aren’t a lot of actions to perform in AC games so having a 108-key plank is not going to mean easier interfaces because it’s not that complex. It’s just run, jump, stab, use special item.
28/03/2012 at 23:31 E_FD says:
So, what’s new? The godawful Assassin’s Creed control scheme already forced you through idiotic nonsense like needing to hold 2-3 buttons at a time for certain actions, because they were too lazy to notice that a keyboard has a heck of a lot more keys on it than a controller pad.
29/03/2012 at 00:29 zakihashi says:
What kind of discussion is this? No console have EVER even been close to having as many different controllers as use that use the the PC have, and always have had. We’re brought up with a gazillion amount of controllers.
Like Star Wars: X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter had 0 keyboard mouse support at all.
Let’s say this game was made to support controller only, we’d still have nothing to cry about.
I don’t see the Xbox boys cry over their jumping up and down game not being possible to use with a controller, and infact only support Kintect as a way to control, grow up and stop crying.
29/03/2012 at 01:02 Ajh says:
…Works for me. I’m an uncoordinated gamer who uses a controller for a lot of pc action games. While it’s not right to not offer the option at ALL…they’re not doing that.
And using a mouse and keyboard is a preference. It does not make you more pc gamer than me, or anyone else.
29/03/2012 at 07:16 urza4315 says:
No doubt you need a controller to play a game like say, Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden properly on PC, but this is Assassin’s Creed we’re talking about here, how precise do you have to be? Keyboard and Mouse worked just fine for me. The only thing that didn’t work particularly well was the quick menu, which I just rebinded to the middle mouse button, works fine.
29/03/2012 at 09:58 bill says:
I just don’t understand why it always has to be a bloody 360 pad.
Windows has been able to use multiple variations on USB gamepads (and other controllers) for decades, and suddenly I’m seeing games that only seem to support a 360 pad? WTF.
As a PC gamer, I’ve had multiple input devices since about 1995… and although my Joystick is new packed up in a box in the loft, I have a $4 dual analogue 10 button gamepad that i’ve been using for years on racers and 3rd person games.
Except those recent ones that refuse to accept it because it’s … something evil or something.
31/03/2012 at 17:27 krankyboy says:
I won’t be signing a petition as that is begging. This will be the first time I boycott a game – the setting is boring (for a none American) and poor keyboard/mouse support just puts a bullet in it for me. It’s a shame as I enjoyed the series up until now.