By Alec Meer on April 17th, 2012 at 7:00 pm.
VG247 has just run a slightly dispiriting dev interview/feature on the subject of brutal RPG Dark Souls’ community-demanded PC version and… well, while we remain the lightest of souls about the fact it’s happening at all, the news isn’t quite what we’d hoped for. As well as the exasperating, bewildering matter of it including Microsoft e’er-temperamental Games For Windows Live matchmaking/copy-protection, it sounds as if this will be a straight source without many, if any, PC-standard bells and whistles applied. Details, plus screens’n'vid, are below IF YOU DARE.
The interface won’t be redone, keyboard and mouse support will be minimal so gamepads are heavily recommended, and there won’t be new graphics settings. From Software producer Hidetaka Miyazaki is paraphrased as saying the game being “a straight port” was publisher Namco’s decision. There will be new content – enemies and areas and stuff like that – but while welcome I think we’d all agree we’d much prefer a well-optimised PC version rather than extra stuff. Here’s a peek at some of the new bosses:
Specifically, the new things are these:
New Bosses – Including Chimera of Tomb, and more
PVP Online Matchmaking System – Quick matching for co‐op or PVP
New Areas – Including Oolacile Tomb, Old Ruins and more
New Enemies – Including Abyss Guard, Chained Prisoner and more
New NPCs – Including Hawkeye Gough and more
New Weapons and Armor – Equip some from the new bosses, enemies, and NPCs
The smart money would bet the new content is due for the console versions down the line, which might be why it was made at all, but no official statement on that as yet.
So, mixed feelings in Castle Shotgun really. It’s fantastic to see a publisher sit up and take note of PC gamers’ requests and interest, but now there’s this great fear that the results won’t be quite what we meant.
More positively, it sounds like there might be some modding support. If that happens, I’m anticipating mods to make it easier and mods to make it even harder in equal measure. Plus a few ponies.
On the matter of GFWL, just shy of 20,000 people have now signed a new petition asking for the bloated horror’s removal from the PC version. Namco told VG247 that GFWL’s inclusion was “still to be decided”, so perhaps there is yet hope they’ll opt for something else.
The game’s out on August 24.
17/04/2012 at 19:02 Monkeh says:
Why aren’t those screens click-able (aka enlargeable)?
17/04/2012 at 19:06 stahlwerk says:
Press Y
17/04/2012 at 19:48 Wildeheart says:
Pressed Y nothing happened. Advice fail.
17/04/2012 at 19:49 Freud says:
Y on your gamepad.
17/04/2012 at 20:15 squareking says:
Actually, you only press Y to not die. To embiggen, you need Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A.
17/04/2012 at 20:27 Antar Bolaeisk says:
That’s the max resolution supported by the game :-p
17/04/2012 at 20:43 mr.ioes says:
Wasn’t the right term “enbiggering”?
17/04/2012 at 23:18 JB says:
No, “embiggen” is perfectly cromulent.
17/04/2012 at 19:05 Brun says:
Nacom told VG247 that GFWL’s inclusion was “still to be decided”
So I guess there is some hope.
17/04/2012 at 20:17 Navagon says:
This is the company that sued CD Projekt for removing Witcher 2 DRM even though it completely broke the game. They also sued them for not enforcing regional pricing. Hope? Really?
17/04/2012 at 20:20 Brun says:
Who, Namco? Was Namco even involved in The Witcher 2?
If you mean GFWL (Microsoft), they can’t sue Namco for using someone else’s DRM product instead of theirs, especially if the issue of its inclusion is still TBD (implying that Namco has not signed a contract for its use).
17/04/2012 at 20:54 Delusibeta says:
Yes: they published the vanilla version worldwide, and are the western European publishers of the Enhanced Edition. So yes, Namco has quite a lot to do with The Witcher 2.
17/04/2012 at 21:55 Phantoon says:
There’s a reason we call them Scamco, brother.
17/04/2012 at 22:10 alundra says:
Yeah, it’s a good sign, let’s not get PC gamer bitchy, a publisher release a game upon request, and if to that they hear another request in a row and change the drm method, upon request, we all should purchase massively, make a precedent for other publishers to see that were we are heard there’s money to be made.
17/04/2012 at 23:13 jwoozy says:
The publisher isn’t “giving the fans what they want” or some bullshit like that. They smell money just like everyone else in the industry. The problem is that Namco is another in an endless parade of arrogant, bureaucratic, risk-averse publishers who are well out of their depth in the choppy, pirate-infested waters of PC gaming.
This is a niche game with a Japanese publisher, shitty DRM, no kb/m support, no graphical overhaul and a controversial multiplayer. Dark Souls PC will sink like a stone.
18/04/2012 at 05:27 Pointless Puppies says:
Great, then you have nothing to worry about with your amazing powers of perception.
While you’re at it, let me know next week’s lottery numbers since you seem to know for certain how everything will play out in the future.
18/04/2012 at 09:25 f1x says:
Even tho you are right,
still supporting the game its important
of course there should’ve been a PC version right from the start, but Namco is quite focused on console market sadly, and quite close minded, plus they have not had the best time regarding sales lately
The problem is the message the PC community sends, sometimes its coherent about petitions and such and sometimes it just looks like its impossible to please it
19/04/2012 at 01:00 alundra says:
Yeah, you missed the big *IF*.
If they can comply to the two requests, porting *and* non (or not shitty) drm, I will buy, I don’t care if they include a software console emulator to run the game.
17/04/2012 at 19:07 mouton says:
What a surprise.
The thing that is slightly annoying is, they already know this will sell. They know there is a huge demand. And yet they refuse to make any reasonable porting effort. Does proper PC porting require workstations made of gold, perhaps?
17/04/2012 at 19:30 mckertis says:
“And yet they refuse to make any reasonable porting effort.”
Name ONE Japanese developer who properly ported their product on PC. It just doesnt happen.
17/04/2012 at 19:50 Alexander Norris says:
Capcom with its MTFramework games!
(That was a trick answer, as MTFramework is a PC engine which is then ported to consoles, so technically none of the MTFramework PC games are ports.)
17/04/2012 at 21:05 Fiatil says:
Devil May Cry 4 was a pretty awesome port. Tons of graphics settings and a benchmarking tool for DX9 and 10, very well optimized for the time too. I’m sure it even supported keyboard and mouse if you were crazy enough to try that.
17/04/2012 at 22:06 Feriluce says:
I bought DMC4 before I owned a gamepad, and that was quite the mistake. Apparantly whoever ported this game have not heard of this fancy thing called a “mouse”, so the controls was 100% keyboard based, that is including the camera. Basically 100% waste of money to buy on the pc if you dont happen to own a controller.
18/04/2012 at 08:02 Wedge says:
Trying to play a DMC game with a mouse is a waste of time anyways. You want to play Street Fighter IV with your mouse next too?
18/04/2012 at 17:30 DrGonzo says:
Not a mouse no, but SF is better with a keyboard than with a standard 360 or ps3 pad. The nature of the game requires precise and reliable digital inputs which those pads just can’t provide. Of course the ideal controller is an arcade stick or a decent pad.
17/04/2012 at 19:48 Palehorse says:
This response to minimal PC porting smacks of wanting your cake and eating it too.
17/04/2012 at 19:58 Jimbo says:
I don’t think you understand that saying.
17/04/2012 at 21:25 Palehorse says:
Wiki equates the saying with ‘having the best of both worlds’. In this case having a PC release and having it ported well too.
Do you have a better proverb for this situation? Something pithier? :P
17/04/2012 at 21:57 Phantoon says:
Well, it came across as a bit flippant.
And really, we should be able to demand ports that aren’t terrible!
17/04/2012 at 23:09 Memphis-Ahn says:
I believe the word thrown around these days is “entitlement”
18/04/2012 at 05:29 Gira says:
Haha, how is it “entitlement” to expect a product you have to pay for to work properly? If you bought a kettle made in Japan (but sold at your local), would you be okay with it breaking down or behaving erratically because, hey, it was made in a DIFFERENT COUNTRY with a DIFFERENT CLIMATE and A DIFFERENT USER EXPERIENCE IN MIND? No, you’d get a refund.
17/04/2012 at 22:22 fish99 says:
Seriously, you think it’s unreasonable to ask for the game to be brought to PC and for them to put in the effort to make it work well on PC? Isn’t it self defeating to bring a game to PC if you’re admitting before you even start that you’re making a sloppy port? That just gives people an excuse to avoid or even pirate it.
As a minimum standard, every game released should work well on the platforms it’s sold on.
18/04/2012 at 02:32 Palehorse says:
Namco would be paying for any PC improvements which will cut into their sales. I’m not in the know on the numbers involved for this kind of work, but it would cut into the roughly $500k in sales they can expect to safely generate. ($50 x 100,000 signatures on the petition) (500K seems like a lot, no wonder that petition worked)
From Software has only done one PC port, Ninja Blade. Reports suggest it wasn’t that great. (I can’t say first hand) So it looks like they don’t have the talent on hand to even do a PC port justice. That means that they either do another crappy port and piss the fans off even more, OR they farm it out to a third party to do it. (or they port it straight, save money, and avoid the whole porting issue, while slightly annoying PC buyers)
The more work they do on the PC port means the game gets pushed back, potentially reducing their sales as PC buyers crumble and get it on console AND the price point drops as it becomes an ‘aged’ title. (My suggested $50 a copy may already be too high)
I would think this is what went through the minds of the suits at Namco. I really think the fact it’s coming at all is pure gravy for PC users.
Let me know if you have figures on what a proper PC port would cost and/or you think I’m out to lunch.
18/04/2012 at 03:54 GTRichey says:
I don’t have any numbers for you but your suggestion that taking time to port properly would hurt the sales is the opposite of what would happen. This news greatly reduces the odds of me bothering with this for PC. They’re basically telling us that we have nothing to gain by doing so, so people like myself will end up buying this for a console since that allows us the comfort of our couch and allows us to obtain the game sooner. The sad thing is Namco will then blame poor PC sales on lack of interest and it will severely hurt any impact petitions like the one that brought this about in the first place may have on bringing awesome games to PC at all. Yes it makes business sense to save the money, but you’ve got to give people a reason to see your product as valuable (especially so far removed from it’s initial release). Sloppy ports are bad for everyone.
18/04/2012 at 08:32 Jimbo says:
I don’t think you understand multiplication either ;)
18/04/2012 at 13:29 fish99 says:
You know what IS going to cut into their sales? Doing a sloppy port, and even worse telling people months in advance it’s going to be a sloppy port.
The stuff we’re talking about here – decent mouse/keyboard support, some graphics options – does not take a lot of time or cost a lot of money.
18/04/2012 at 05:32 Pointless Puppies says:
It’s pretty damn presumptuous to just assume that not being an excellent PC port automatically means there’s no effort being put into this.
I really don’t know what you’re expecting from a developer who hasn’t done a PC game in well over a decade porting a game they didn’t design for the PC in a few months. You’re essentially bitching at them that they’re not achieving the impossible, which is really quite silly.
Next time Namco just won’t listen to 93,000+ signature petitions, then you won’t feel personally offended that the port isn’t pristine, and all will be well in PC land of games that didn’t get ported because it wouldn’t have lived up to people’s ridiculous expectations. Hooray.
18/04/2012 at 10:29 Unaco says:
Making a decent PC Port is not the impossible. We’re not asking them to do the impossible. Our expectations are not ridiculous. You act as if we’re asking for a completely new and redesigned game… we’re not. Give us graphics options (PCs are not homogeneous, many different hardware configurations, being able to tweak graphics to improve performance is part of PC gaming)… Give us proper M/KB support with the ability to rebind keys… give us an interface that makes use of the Mouse.
Hardly the impossible. Hardly asking for them to move mountains.
18/04/2012 at 13:45 fish99 says:
Firstly I can tell how much effort is being put into it by the fact that it’s announced this week and it’s launching in August, in *4 months time*, and by the fact that Namco keep saying over and over that they’re doing it as quick and cheap as they possibly can.
Secondly as I’ve already said they’re shooting themselves in the foot by making the game on PC but then seemingly going out of their way to make a bad version, by using GFWL, by not supporting the default PC controls properly, and by not providing decent graphics options. It’s like releasing a game on 360 that doesn’t properly support the gamepad.
Finally, why is making a decent PC port somehow ‘impossible’? Are you claiming these guys are incompetent or something? It doesn’t take a lot of time or expertise to properly support a mouse, or to add some graphics settings. Little indie games made by 1 guy can do it, so surely From can manage it.
17/04/2012 at 19:52 TsunamiWombat says:
They don’t know it will sell, which is the problem. Because 1. This is a Japanese publisher, and the Japanese industry has proven itself time and again to be completly out of touch with consoles, let alone PC’s which even most of the American developers are out of touch with. Keiji Inafune (Megaman Creator and former Capcom Guru Designer) has been talking alot about this lately:
-
“Right now, Japan believes that other Asian games, and American games, aren’t as good as theirs,” he continued. “But across the world, American games are the best-selling and considered the most fun. But Japan’s gamers and game creators still won’t accept this. This is why Japan can’t win.”
-
Namco is, in it’s mind, taking a huge gamble with their money even porting it. And since this is a porting matter, how it gets done is entirely up to publisher Namco and is out of the Dev’s hands.
And 2 the PC gaming market as we know it is almost non-existant in Japan, which feeds into #1
17/04/2012 at 23:34 jwoozy says:
The thing is, Japanese games still are pretty great and still enjoy a number of advantages over their Western counterparts. There’s no shortage of technological understanding, aesthetic sensibility or artistic mastery in Japanese gaming and I get a little queasy at the level of nationalism that sometimes creeps into these debates about East vs. West.
What happened to Japanese gaming is that one of the largest and toughest multinationals in software made a deliberate effort to destroy the industry and rebuild it in their image, and largely succeeded. That Japanese developers have failed to adapt is their own fault, but this idea that there’s some kind of cultural defect at the center of this failure just reeks of white supremacy.
Besides which, the fact that Gears of War and Call of Duty are mainstream hits while Dark Souls and Monster Hunter are considered “niche” says absolutely nothing good about Western developers or their audiences.
17/04/2012 at 19:07 faillord_adam says:
Le sigh
17/04/2012 at 21:17 Eddy9000 says:
Ah oui, le sigh…
17/04/2012 at 23:21 Duffin says:
Chateauneuf du Pape
17/04/2012 at 23:58 RakeShark says:
Omelet du fromage…
18/04/2012 at 00:18 jaheira says:
Quel dommage!
18/04/2012 at 02:01 Mut says:
Quelle honte.
18/04/2012 at 04:13 Srethron says:
That’s all you can sayyyy. That’s all you can sayyyy.
18/04/2012 at 09:37 chackosan says:
Le chat est sur la chaise.
18/04/2012 at 18:43 Froh says:
Fichtre, Diantre, Zut, Flute.
17/04/2012 at 19:09 CaLe says:
The controller thing isn’t an issue. Too bad about the other stuff.
18/04/2012 at 01:31 Memphis-Ahn says:
Pretty much, no-one has the right to call themselves a gamer if they don’t own a controller anyways.
I really don’t see any other issues apart from GfWL though, it’s not as though “straight port” means “unoptimised piece of crap”.
18/04/2012 at 07:48 jrodman says:
Well good thing the word ‘gamer’ is so poisoned already that heaping more on it isn’t so painful.
18/04/2012 at 17:35 DrGonzo says:
What does that even mean? My dad doesn’t own a controller and he was gaming decades before I was even born, he’s a proper hardcore gamer mostly playing Hearts of Iron or some other ultra boring turn based game. He’s a gamer if I ever saw one.
‘It’s better with a pad’ isn’t an excuse. It may be true, although in this case I very much doubt it having played the 360 version, but it’s on pc and you have no excuse not to port the controls over for those who want it.
Some people simply cannot use or get used to pads no matter how hard they try, and this is a 3rd person action game, much like 1st person games they are far better with a mouse.
Having tried the 360 version though this game also needs a massive UI overhaul as that was hideous on the Xbox. Also needs controls sorted as they felt very loose, unreliable and I kept clipping through walls and seeing the same awkward animations over and over.
18/04/2012 at 11:44 MikoSquiz says:
The controller thing isn’t really an issue for me since it’s a game designed for a gamepad anyway. Complaining that it doesn’t work so good with keyboard and mouse seems like complaining that a racing game doesn’t work so good with a keyboard and mouse, or Starcraft 2 is tricky with a gamepad.
I also could not for the life of me manage to give two shits about graphics settings, unless it won’t run on my hoary old card. (I like to buy a new one roughly every 4-5 years.) Mouse support for menus would be preferred, but I can live without it.
And while GFWL does make me unhappyface, it doesn’t by itself constitute a dealbreaker. This is still an on-the-day buy for me.
18/04/2012 at 17:37 DrGonzo says:
No it’s not at all. It’s more like saying that Arkham Asylum works badly with a mouse and keyboard. Which is doesn’t by the way, it’s arguably better with a mouse and keyboard. Similar genres, and it shows that there is no reason this game wouldn’t play nicely with mouse and keyboard controls. Stop defending their laziness for gods sake.
17/04/2012 at 19:09 Shooop says:
The only thing people should be worried about is the GFWL bit. It’s understandable what started as a console game and later jumped to PC doesn’t have all the bells and whistles, but GFWL is downright radioactive for too many people.
Mod support would be just brilliant though.
17/04/2012 at 19:27 e82 says:
I dunno, I don’t think Dark Souls needs mod support, and that it could possibly be even detrimental. A large part of the enjoyment of the online portions requires there to be some integrity to the characters. Hacking of save files is rampant enough on the 360 – it would become even harder to control on the PC.
How can you tell if some phantom has hacked their save file, or simply using a mod that added sword of uber-asswhopping? Mod ability where appropriate is great and all – I just find it questionable in games that have competitive PvP environments.
17/04/2012 at 23:52 Baresark says:
You are confused…. modding a game and cheating with a hacked save file are two completely different things. Modding does not typically involved improving the player character. It would include things like new areas to play in, new enemies, maybe a few new items, a boss here and there… not hacking the save file. Please, don’t make assumptions that because people cheat, everyone cheats. What most people who are against this don’t understand is that it can enhance the longevity of a game by potentially infinite percent. It’s why ridiculous numbers of people still play Diablo 2. It’s why Skyrim is constantly in the news, months after release.
18/04/2012 at 03:23 aDemandingPersona says:
If you can add “new areas to play in, new enemies, maybe a few new items, a boss here and there” then I can guarantee unbalancing.. Some kid adding the awesome sword of badassery to his custom made area. maybe even a cleverly planned out area for grinding xp.
18/04/2012 at 05:35 Pointless Puppies says:
You’re completely ignoring the large aspect of the game that is online. How exactly do you expect the game’s online to work if people can make mods about anything they want Skyrim-style? And keep in mind the online wasn’t at all designed to handle mods in the first place.
17/04/2012 at 19:29 Smarag says:
No that’s not acceptable. Tolerable for a game as good as Dark Souls, but it’s not fucking acceptable. Especially if you don’t make proper mod support possible.
17/04/2012 at 19:42 Khemm says:
There’s a shitload of PC only games which have ZERO mod support, so let’s stop acting as if it’s a standard feature.
17/04/2012 at 19:54 TsunamiWombat says:
I don’t really see Dark Souls as a mod friendly game anyway, it’s like a big dumb playground like Skyrim, it has a much tighter focus and balance doesn’t it?
PS: Not dissing Skyrim or mods, I got 100+, both in hours logged and active mods THANKS STEAM WORKSHOP. Just saying you really shouldn’t expect mod support for certain games, especially considering how complex games have gotten in the past decade.
17/04/2012 at 20:07 Smarag says:
Which is why people say that consoles and the console audience is ruining gaming.
18/04/2012 at 05:36 Pointless Puppies says:
And you’re not incorrect in that statement, Smarag, but why the hell take it out on a project like this? Take it out on someone like Bioware who definitely DO have the time and resources to give extensive mod support to their games (*coughMassEffectcough*) but choose not to simply because fuck it.
17/04/2012 at 21:14 theleif says:
Very few PC games are released with any mod support at all. Do not confuse mod support (Skyrim, NWN, Minecraft, Source engine games) with modable. Most games are modable, very few has mod support.
17/04/2012 at 19:12 Xzi says:
While it’s (almost) understandable for them not to include a lot of new graphics options, the decision to not re-do the interface and bindings to fully support mouse/keyboard is dumb as hell. I played a bit of Dark Souls on the 360, and it seems to me that a mouse/keyboard version of the control scheme should have been done FIRST. It hardly functions on a gamepad as-is. Memorizing the button combinations for certain things is overly-convoluted and completely unnatural in regards to what we’ve come to expect from other console RPGs.
They had the chance to make Dark Souls PC the definitive version and prove that they still care about their customers enough to make the wait worth it, but I suppose going the completely opposite direction and screwing PC gamers over just to later blame poor sales on piracy and subsequently never release another game on the PC again makes sense too…
With the initial news of Dark Souls arriving on the PC, I immediately thought that it would be a day one purchase for me. Now there’s no way I’m touching this thing until it falls into the bargain bin. Or if they price it new at $20, then maybe. However, I doubt Namco/Bandai is going to be that reasonable, considering their conduct up to this point.
17/04/2012 at 19:14 Brun says:
It was my understanding that some of the mechanics basically required the analog sticks whose function can’t really be simulated elegantly with KBM.
17/04/2012 at 19:17 Lobotomist says:
I hate playing 3D games with controller.
But if that is price for playing the game on PC, ill bite.
17/04/2012 at 19:22 Xzi says:
It’s been done in every other port up to this point. The simple solution is to let people customize their own bindings.
17/04/2012 at 23:56 Baresark says:
This is untrue. The necessity for analog movement is a hugel fallacy that is all over this thread. It’s just a red herring trying to detract from the subject at hand.
18/04/2012 at 00:43 LennyLeonardo says:
Actually, I found analogue movement pretty essential. But then I do have a huge phallus.
Pardon me? Oh, sorry.
17/04/2012 at 19:59 gnodab says:
To be fair it is not like Namco/Bandai is some traditionally EPIC PC-Dev, who betrayed us late on for the toy boxes. I mean it a Japanese console/toy company! They don’t even have a PC market over there!
I remember many of their classic, but from my NES/SNES days…
So I don’t get the whole betrayal thing. And what long wait? The game was never intended for PC. The only reason it is coming out is because they were nice enough to listen to PC-Gamers (which are not, by any stretch of the imagination, their target audience) and now we get it in a matter of months.
And what baffles my mind are you seriously suggesting that a game developed solely for consoles should have been developed with keyboard and mouse FIRST? wtf?!? I feel like I am missing something.
To stop flaming, of course I would also prefer a version of the game optimized for the PC. But this is basically a present to us. Well, ok it is a test trial. Still we should take it as it is and realize that Namco/Bandai are taking a big step towards us and they really didn’t need to. And this has nothing to do with the PC being a dead platform, but with it not being their platform. and there really is no way of them to assure that this will be an economically sound endeavor.
TL;DR
shut up be happy
17/04/2012 at 22:53 Xzi says:
I would prefer if you would shut up and be angry with me instead. It’s basically like one of the later comments said: if you’re going to do something, you might as well do it right.
If the only significant change in the PC version of the game is higher framerates, then there really isn’t any point in porting it at all. Which might as well be the case for all the difference it makes, because given their handling of the situation, Dark Souls WILL crash and fail on the PC. After which, we’ll never see another Namco Bandai game on the PC again. Which, to reiterate another point, is absolutely fine with me if this is the quality of release we can expect from them. Never-ending cycle of disappointment in a way, you see.
18/04/2012 at 00:03 catmorbid says:
Yep. Even though their engine (whatever is used) does not have native mouse support, it will not be that hard to code it in for a Professional Fucking Programmer (basically any guy with a few years’ experience could do it in a week at MOST) and some more time for keymapping (come on this is so basic even QBasic is crying!) and… um… wait what’s left. Some graphical stuff, well that takes time if your engine is shit to begin with, but shouldn’t really be that big of a problem for Professional Fucking Coders with a few months in their hands. I’ll stop now.
18/04/2012 at 02:24 Gira says:
this is basically a present to us
Oh, man, you really are clueless.
17/04/2012 at 19:59 Max.I.Candy says:
“It hardly functions on a gamepad as-is”
wtf are you going on about?
18/04/2012 at 02:32 derbefrier says:
you guys need to quit acting like bad console ports are a new thing. bad console pots have been around as long as there have been consoles and pcs.this isnt some new phenomenon. i played many a bad console port back in the day nothings really changed except your perceptions. i’ll just be happy if it runs well i have a controller because i am a gamer and all gamers should already have a controller so there really should be no issue here. this stupid ass trend of hating everything that doesn’t come with every single PC specific feature ever made needs to stop. you sound like a bunch of spoiled ass children. the game will be perfectly enjoyable and playable as it is. its your fault if you purposely gimp yourself by not using the control method the game was designed around. Its a console port plain and simple but their are plenty of console ports that are perfectly fine and a blast to play.
18/04/2012 at 16:26 Max.I.Candy says:
your preaching to the wrong guy mate.
19/04/2012 at 14:17 Lowbrow says:
God, I hate gamers. Leave your culture out of my videogames please.
18/04/2012 at 04:56 thebigJ_A says:
Dark Souls doesn’t have button combos.
Or is “hit button to swing sword” too convoluted for you?
DS has nearly perfect controls on a gamepad, idk what game you played.
17/04/2012 at 19:13 Freud says:
I used to get annoyed by these things, but even though I’m not a big fan of GFWL and more or less lazy ports I have gotten through GTA4, Arkham Asylum, Bulletstorm and other games without it robbing too much of my enjoyment.
I’d rather them make a flawless port to PC but if that’s not happening, I’m sure I’ll get value for my money if the gameplay is as good as reported.
17/04/2012 at 19:14 Baresark says:
I just don’t understand. The should have left out the new bosses and simply made the game a proper port. They just want this to fail.
17/04/2012 at 19:24 pkt-zer0 says:
The extra content is going to consoles as DLC anyway, so they’re not going to leave that out.
As for a lazy port, it seems it’s more like the publisher wanting to spend as little as possible on this, not the devs. So, maybe we’ll have better luck with Dark Souls 2 PC, eventually.
17/04/2012 at 19:24 vatara says:
Nothing beats the self-fulfilling prophecy of doing a lazy port that leads to poor sales that leads to justifying doing lazy ports (or no ports).
17/04/2012 at 19:16 Lobotomist says:
This is horrible news.
Not only that i dont want GWFL on my computer, but many GWFL games simply exclude the region i am in (an many more) basically locking us from any kind of purchase.
So its big NO , i hope they change their mind.
If they have to, they can always use steam instead of GWFL
17/04/2012 at 19:16 Angry Engy says:
To be honest, I think I’d rather have extra content than a slightly shinier game.
17/04/2012 at 21:28 Baresark says:
extra shiny has nothing to do with it. They are releasing the game in such a way that it’s not actually worth purchasing it on the PC. They are forcing controller use, they are having zero graphic options. They aren’t adapting the UI to the PC. This was an instant buy, but now it’s a wait and see. It hurts them the most.
18/04/2012 at 05:42 Pointless Puppies says:
Absolutely none of which are new or an aberration at this point.
You need to think of the extremely likely possibility that the issues you’re discussing is a matter of time, effort, and PC development of experience. Those issues aren’t present just because they’re lazy fucks, they’re present because this is a port of a game that wasn’t intended for PC in a small time frame. You can’t expect the game to be a perfect PC port given the circumstances.
17/04/2012 at 19:21 Unaco says:
Sigh.
17/04/2012 at 19:22 Stevostin says:
Gamepad ? Yeah sure. K thx bye.
17/04/2012 at 19:37 Khemm says:
Are you one of those folks who play flying sims with keyboard and mouse and refuse to plug in a joystick?
Don’t be ridiculous.
17/04/2012 at 19:55 Mordsung says:
Khemm,
For a moment, think about this situation in another light. Imagine a game got ported from PC to consoles with no proper controller support and a UI built for mouse and keyboard.
They’d be pretty pissed about it.
It’s no different when it’s done to us.
We gain nothing from being quiet and graciously accepting that they ported the game to our platform.
We gain everything from being vocal about our complaints.
Nothing bad is going to come from voicing discontent.
17/04/2012 at 20:35 Khemm says:
Good point, but we don’t know ANYTHING about keyboard and mouse controls at this point. They might as well be fine.
17/04/2012 at 19:56 MarcusCardiff says:
The only thing ridiculous (apart from expecting PC gamers to use a gamepad for an RPG) is you comparing a flying game to an RPG like they’re even the tiniest bit similar.
Console fanboys, they even infest PC forums.
17/04/2012 at 20:08 Mordsung says:
Not even to mention that some people do prefer a keyboard for flightsims.
I’m fairly confident I could outfly most people using a joystick in a BF2 blackhawk, and I use only the keyboard.
Analogue control, while technically superior in many cases, is not massively superior to good ol’ “tapping”.
Once you get good enough you even start remembering turns in a racing sim as “4 left taps” or “3 right taps, two break taps”
Of course, I also use a thumb-trackball mouse for gaming, so I am an oddity.
17/04/2012 at 22:25 Sheng-ji says:
Say what you like about how great mouse and keyboard is, it is inferior for games which need analogue controls. Like Dark Souls. PC gamers since the 70′s have matched specialist controls to the games and modern day games are no different. Sure, the simplistic need to “always run” works just fine in FPS’s etc but games with slightly more nuance to them, well tapping just doesn’t cut the mustard.
So, I’ll take you up on your offer of tapping vs analogue, only I get to choose the game. Codemasters F1 2011 please.
18/04/2012 at 03:01 suibhne says:
@Sheng-ji: trad PC controls actually offer far superior analog controls. It’s called a “mouse,” and it’s a fantastically more precise analog controller than any gamepad ever made. The problem is that it’s only one, not two analog controllers as on a gamepad. For first-person perspective or an over-the-shoulder camera, mouse/keyboard is always superior. I guess the problem in this case is that Dark Souls uses a lot of off-angle cameras?
17/04/2012 at 20:09 Khemm says:
A console fanboy? OK, you’re officially nuts or a troll.
Don’t play Gothic, you’ll immediately call it a console port because of a very unique keyboard&mouse control scheme unlike anything used in other action-RPGs.
Have you even played Dark Souls for a second? Do you realize why they recommend a gamepad? By the way, why are you assuming that k&m controls will be broken?
17/04/2012 at 20:36 Reapy says:
Agreed. The whole game is designed around using a controller, I honestly can’t think of a smooth way to make a keyboard and mouse feel right. Pretty much any game that has ‘direct movement’, (you push left and the char rotates immediately to that facing and goes left), won’t feel right with a keyboard, mostly because you will need headings between A and W that aren’t 45 degrees…especially with dark souls.. you need to target your rolls and such to get around behind things.
I think as long as the framerate is steady, and the networking is improved for speedier matches, and GFWL heads another direction, it is still going to be worth checking out.
18/04/2012 at 02:40 Runs With Foxes says:
There is no reason why Dark Souls wouldn’t work fine with a mouse and keyboard. You run around and hit things. There are many hack and slash games on PC that work fine with mouse and keyboard.
Do you own a mouse? This is exactly what mouse look is for, and it gives much finer, faster and more responsive control than analog sticks do. What’s wrong with you?
18/04/2012 at 05:06 thebigJ_A says:
No, no, see, in Dark Souls it is extremely important to move in very precise directions OTHER THAN the one your camera is looking in. That’s why the second analogue stick is so important.
A mouse is superior at aiming, no one denies that. It’s just that, in this game, aiming isn’t that important, but what direction, and how fast, your character moves is life and death. Only being able to choose between walk and run will get you killed over and over. Only being able to move in the cardinal directions relative to where your camera is locked onto will get you killed over and over.
In a game in which it’s hard enough to not get killed over and over already, this is a handicap.
Then there’s the way the controls were designed. The controller is essentially mapped to your character’s body. Things you put in your left arm (shields, but also anything else) are mapped to the left trigger and left bumper, the same for the right. The positional and physical nature of the combat is tied around this system very tightly.
18/04/2012 at 06:56 Runs With Foxes says:
I own Dark Souls so I know how it plays. There’s no reason why it couldn’t work fine with mouse and keyboard if they put the effort in.
17/04/2012 at 21:09 Nihilexistentialist says:
I’m Sorry From Software. You deserve better than Namco-Bandai.
19/04/2012 at 22:53 TwelveShots says:
actually they had a better but smaller publisher originally for demon souls this games predecessor ATLUS i guess they switched for monetary reasons.
17/04/2012 at 21:23 Fiatil says:
Some games just control better with controllers, that doesn’t make you a console fanboy. I think people are crazy for trying to play an FPS or RTS with a controller just like you’re kind of crazy for trying to play a fighting game or an action RPG of this type with a keyboard and mouse. Most RPGs can and do work better with a keyboard and mouse, but Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls just wouldn’t.
Graphics customization support is another thing, way to suck Namco.
17/04/2012 at 20:35 Johnny Lizard says:
I agree with Khemm.
18/04/2012 at 00:55 LennyLeonardo says:
And my axe. Although Filatil’s post is probably the most rational in this whole discussion.
17/04/2012 at 21:21 Eddy9000 says:
I also agree with Khemm, (and also with Mordsung, I’ll be the first person to say that people should say so if they aren’t happy)
What is the strange fetish PC gamers have for mouse & keyboard? I can understand if the game benefits from it a la TF2, but why shoehorn a control system in where it doesn’t suit the gameplay? I plugged in a gamepad for Skyrim and haven’t looked back. And comparing it to console users being sold a game that requires a mouse and keyboard is just silly.
Not supporting higher resolutions is the kick in the bojangles fo me.
17/04/2012 at 21:33 trjp says:
It’s an RPG, arguably they had to cram the controls into the pad in the first place (not having any other choice on PS3 or XBOX) – but having done that, it’s not like a keyboard gains you much (they won’t put in new stuff just for keyboard users).
That said there are people who don’t own a pad – they are idiots and have no right reading a gaming forum but they’re out there and I imagine they’ll whine a LOT when they discover the game can’t have complex mappable controls and customisation.
Hey ho – 360 version just pissed-me-off anyway so it’s no loss here :)
17/04/2012 at 21:34 Baresark says:
The thing is this, why limit the controls to one thing. They are shoehorning the controls, not people who like Mouse+KB. I don’t honestly understand why you would play Skyrim like that, but that is your thing. That comparison is very apt. The majority of PC gamers prefer M+KB. Why release a game that doesn’t support them most common control type of a platform I’ll compare it this way, it’s like releasing a game on PS3 but you’re supposed to use a Nintendo controller for it. Which is ridiculous.
17/04/2012 at 22:04 UncleLou says:
I also agree with Khemm. One of the reasons why DS is such a great game are the melee controls. And one of the reasons the controls are so good is because the game has blatantly been designed with game pads in mind from the start. The triggers/shoulder buttons basically simulate your sword and shield arms. First problem with the mouse will be that they either have to make the characters all left-handed (which might have effects on the level design – it’s no coincidence that staircases in medieval castles all circle up clockwise), make you use the RMB for your weapon (nasty), or let you use the LMB for your right arm and the RMB for your left arm.
And that’s just the beginning, before we even talk about different attacks/blocks you can do with your left and right arms in the game.
One of the greatest things about PC gaming has always been its versatility. I can hardly think of a more anti-PC attitude within PC gaming than insisting on m/kb controls when you can simply plug in a pad.
18/04/2012 at 07:39 KenTWOu says:
You can’t simply plug in a pad if you don’t have it.
17/04/2012 at 19:22 Gundato says:
To be fair, I recall a lot of people saying “We would even be happy with a simple port!”
Obviously “port” can have multiple meanings, but still.
That being said, does kind of suck that the PC version looks like it will be rather weak. Fortunately, I already have my PS3 version, so this is more of a “that sucks” than a “HULK SMASH” for me.
17/04/2012 at 20:43 FunkyBadger3 says:
No, you can’t mean “PC Gamers” are a bunch of massively over-entitled cry-babies?
18/04/2012 at 02:44 Runs With Foxes says:
Maybe they just want a good quality product instead of a half-assed one? I guess they do feel entitled to that, yeah.
18/04/2012 at 03:24 Gundato says:
Wasn’t aware I was implying that.
But on that subject: We ALL suck. Everyone wants equality, but only so much as they are the most equal.
Pricing/Sales/Deals: Every time there is a US-only sale (or Steam bones ~Americans), the rest of the world complains (but most of us Americans don’t mind too much). But, by that same token, one of the best sites for PC-gaming related deals regularly posts Europe (or even England) exclusive deals, and I mutter a “drat” every time Google Reader pulls the RSS feed. Europe has consistently gotten the best collector’s editions. And the rest of the world doesn’t mind (outside of the usual hate for collectors editions) while the Americans (myself included) whine.
And the same with this. When I heard there was a PC port that was going to have new content, my very first thought was “Damn it, now they are boning me for buying the PS3 version”. And, by and large, no PC gamers (who didn’t already own the game :p) were complaining. Now it looks like us PC gamers are getting boned again, but those of us who were wearing PS3 Hats for Dark Souls are unaffected and not bothered anymore.
Same with TW2:EE, actually. My first thought was “The PC Version better get those new cutscenes and what nots”.
There is a LOT of hate in this comments thread, but one thing worth noting, even if you don’t want to acknowledge that we all suck: Think back to how Bethesda “screwed us” on Fallout 3 or any other time when a primarily PC-oriented studio made a console game. We complained that we were being abandoned. Well, I don’t see Armored Core or whatever else From Software made getting much love from the PC community (ever).
So while they obviously blame Namco endlessly (hell, did Namco ever get much PC love?), do you really see them wanting to screw over the people who gave them the opportunity to shine? They can give us all the exclusive stuff we want, and that will just piss off the fanbase that has actually supported them.
I know, I know “If they would just release games for my platform of choice, I would support them”. And that is exactly what happened to all of the “consolified” serieses.
17/04/2012 at 19:22 MythArcana says:
Once a console game, always a console game.
17/04/2012 at 19:27 Sonblade says:
Whatever the case is with this release, I feel this is a game we’d have to bite our tongue on. If people go on a hoity-toity rampage over this, we’ll likely never see a port like this ever again. It is in the best interest of people who wanted this game to be ported to PC to buy it, even if it means dealing with lackluster controls and the bells and whistles you expect from a PC game. Buy the game, but express your displeasure to Bamco and From Software. Let them know you want the games, but also want PC-specific changes in future releases. This is a huge undertaking for them, so sucking it up one time to show them the PC Master Race isn’t a bunch of whiny girls will help in the future.
17/04/2012 at 19:51 Blackcompany says:
Agreed. Taking the high road here and purchasing the game. Taking it on the chin, just a little, this time, for the sake of games like this on the PC.
Now, if they do it again in future…not making any promises about that.
17/04/2012 at 20:03 Sonblade says:
Yes, on posts from the Namco Bandai forums, they are already saying that they see all the complaints about GFWL and are talking to the devs about it. They are clearly listening, but in this scenario, there is a short time frame to work on all of this so what they can do is limited. With future releases, one should definitely expect a fallout if they do a straight-port again, but in this scenario it is acceptable.
17/04/2012 at 20:25 Xzi says:
Nope, fuck ‘em. Namco Bandai doesn’t release enough good games for me to give a shit. And if this is the quality of work we can expect to see put in on any other game they might release on the PC, with no standard graphics options and little KB/M support, then I don’t want to see another PC release from them. Period.
I’m not typically a gung-ho capitalist, but here I’ll make an exception. Let the good PC developers fill in the many areas which Namco Bandai has failed miserably. One game is not worth letting a developer disregard basic quality standards for PC gamers, no matter what that game is. The reason being that it sets a very dangerous precedent. If EA and Activision see Dark Souls sell well on the PC despite being a stripped down, glorified emulation of a console game, then that’s all we’ll be seeing on the PC for the next ten years.
I hope this game fails to even recoup the costs it takes to port it.
17/04/2012 at 21:29 Sonblade says:
Bamco has released a whopping one PC game so far (Ridge Racer Unbounded), so obviously they aren’t going to be the greatest people at making PC games currently, so, give them a damn break. You also haven’t even tried out the M/KB controls for the game, so how are you even able to judge them? The game was specifically built around a gamepad, hence why they recommend a gamepad.
As for your comment about Dark Souls possibly setting a precedent for future PC releases from EA/Activision: After the incredibly successful release & post-release of Skyrim, EA and Activision truly did step up their game with PC releases. They released so many crowd pleasing games that had excellent mod support, open gameplay, tons of content, constant updates, and the like. Oh wait, that never happened because one game never changes an industry. And besides, the current EA/Activision/Ubisoft ports to the PC aren’t any more stellar than what Dark Souls is offering. They may have graphical options, but they are still clearly built around gamepads. Graphics shouldn’t even be a deal breaker in this scenario since graphics aren’t what makes a game.
As stated in the article you likely didn’t read, this port is an experiment to test the PC Market’s viability; if it fails, we will likely never see a requested PC release from Bamco, or any other publisher, ever again. Instead of being an entitled twat, accept this for what it is.
17/04/2012 at 22:06 Xzi says:
That’s exactly it. They’ve only ever released one game on the PC, and they’ve only released two games within the past ten years that I could give half a fuck about. So if they want to continue that trend and have no desire to put in the work necessary to make a decent experience on the PC, why should I care about the effect that Dark Souls’ PC sales have on their choice to port future titles? They’re setting themselves up for failure, so I’m just going to sit back and watch them progress through this self-fulfilling prophecy.
And then you go on to contradict yourself here:
“Oh wait, that never happened because one game never changes an industry.”
“As stated in the article you likely didn’t read, this port is an experiment to test the PC Market’s viability; if it fails, we will likely never see a requested PC release from Bamco, or any other publisher, ever again.”
So which is it? Is Dark Souls some grand test for the potential survival of the entire PC market, or does it only really affect Namco Bandai and their BS?
Whatever your answer, I have a hard time caring. The truth of the matter is that the PC as a gaming platform has been on an upswing for the last couple years because of the current overextended console cycle. But there have always been people saying that PC gaming is “dying” since roughly 1992. That statement never has and never will scare me away from being a discerning customer.
“Bamco” can blow me. If I wanted to play an emulated game with no KB+M support, that’s exactly what I’d do. The difference there being that I would still be able to avoid dealing with malware like GFWL, and I’d have a full suite of graphics options to play with.
17/04/2012 at 22:16 Brun says:
And then you go on to contradict yourself here:
No he doesn’t. The “experiment” is internal to Bamco, and is necessary for them only because they have such limited experience in developing and publishing for PC. They’re doing it because they don’t know how viable the PC market is for their games, and how viable PC development is for them as a company. It’s not intended to be a litmus test for PC for the entire industry – other publishers already know that PC is a viable market because they’re making PC games (and if DS PC fails due to bad porting/GFWL issues, the other publishers will likely use it as a foil for their own games in their marketing efforts).
It’s Bamco’s experiment. Not the industry’s.
17/04/2012 at 22:27 Xzi says:
Well he did say: “if it fails, we will likely never see a requested PC release from Bamco, or any other publisher, ever again.”
That would seem to have implications well beyond Namco Bandai alone, yes? Certainly could have used some clarification if he meant it as you say he did.
17/04/2012 at 22:29 Brun says:
True enough and in that regard he is somewhat self-contradictory. However, I think the point of that sentence was to indicate that were DS to fail, Namco Bandai probably wouldn’t produce any more PC games (while whining that they were “betrayed” by the PC audience).
17/04/2012 at 20:44 Beelzebud says:
Battered Wife Syndrome.
17/04/2012 at 19:31 Buemba says:
They should have hired a western studio to do the port as I bet most Japanese companies don’t have a clue about what makes PC gaming special.
I’ll be shocked if the game offers anything other than resolution tweaks, and even that only in 16:9. Which is a bummer, as the Dirt series shows just how good the Phyre Engine can look on a PC.
18/04/2012 at 05:45 Pointless Puppies says:
Hiring 3rd party studios to handle PC ports has zero guarantee of resulting in a better product.
Do remember that our beloved CDProjekt is responsible for the Saints Row 2 port.
17/04/2012 at 19:35 Desmolas says:
My dad always told me:
“Son, If something is worth doing, its worth doing right.”
I supposed Namco’s dad never taught them this valuable lesson.
17/04/2012 at 20:33 ffordesoon says:
No, their dad told them, “If it’s worth doing, it’s worth monetizing.”
17/04/2012 at 21:25 Unaco says:
Hey, my dad told me the same thing. Spooky. If they know much about the PC market, they know that poorly done ports are not tolerated. Show the PC some love though, and people will throw their money at you. There’s a huge audience and market for them to embrace, but if they try to exploit it, it won’t go down well.
17/04/2012 at 19:35 Khemm says:
I’m usually vocal about such things, but in this case – sorry for my French – I don’t give a flying fuck.
I stated a while ago that I’d be happy with smooth framerates and resolution options – I never expected DX11, higher res textures or improved assets, they don’t affect gameplay and Dark Souls already looks fine.
Besides, I’m sure the keyboard and mouse controls will be OK and I plan on using my gamepad anyway.
I’m super excited we’re getting the PC version AT ALL.
17/04/2012 at 20:03 Max.I.Candy says:
just what i was going to say but i’ll reply with a +1 instead!
this is excactly what i was expecting.and i’m happy.
i’ll just add that ppl who are complaining about gamepads, you need to suck it up and play it how its intended.
17/04/2012 at 21:51 Baresark says:
Those are the words of a non-PC gamer. Imagine if you bought it for the PS3 and then told it only supports an NES controller.
17/04/2012 at 22:35 Khemm says:
There will be keyboard and mouse support, we just don’t know anything else beyond that.
18/04/2012 at 01:07 LennyLeonardo says:
I agree with Khemm, and can you stop sneeringly calling people “non-PC gamers”, because it makes you look like a prick, and it also makes me throw up a little bit?
18/04/2012 at 04:53 Pointless Puppies says:
You’re terribly misinformed if you think there is no game on the PC that can ever be better with a gamepad. There are plenty. Namely, 3rd person platformers, racing games (though wheels are better) and flight sims (though joysticks are better).
Plenty of console games are designed with gamepads in mind. You really have no grasp on the nuances of gaming inputs if you think you can take any game from any genre, slap KB+M and get an objectively better experience.
18/04/2012 at 05:26 Gira says:
Why is that “terribly misinformed”? Cast aside pointless observations like “IT WAS MADE WITH A GAMEPAD IN MIND!!” and think for a minute.
There is no game control system known to man which is more precise than the mouse. In third-person games the character moves in discrete directions anyway, so if you need more nuance to your movement you just use the mouse, which is how it’s been for, I don’t know, over 15 years now. And if you need to separate mouse movement from character movement, you can hold down the right mouse button! Hey presto!
Accepting it when developers say “it just works better with a gamepad” is not fine – not because of PC Elitism, but because it is a logical fallacy.
If a PC game doesn’t work well on a mouse and keyboard, it’s because it’s a bad port, not because it’s a bloody design choice.
18/04/2012 at 05:48 Pointless Puppies says:
You simply don’t understand the fundamental difference between a gamepad and a mouse. You seem to equate the superiority of the accuracy from the mouse as a means to trump every other inherent difference that the gamepad possesses.
What would be more appropriate in this discussion is that you cast aside your “MOUSE IS BETTER FOR EVERYTHING EVER” notion and think for a second that the two are very different. It’s not nearly as simple as saying that one aspect of one is accurate than that the other and therefore that one is better. There’s a lot more to KB+M than just the mouse, just as there is a lot more to a gamepad than a joystick.
18/04/2012 at 07:44 ffordesoon says:
@Gira:
I believe you, Gira. After all, you are the leading expert on elitism.
19/04/2012 at 14:39 Lowbrow says:
Self fulfilling prophecy. It works better on the gamepad, and no one will take the development time to figure out a good kb/m scheme, so it will alway work better on a gamepad.
17/04/2012 at 21:27 Unaco says:
I’m super excited we’re getting the PC version AT ALL.
But, we’re not getting a PC version. We’re getting the game on PC… but it doesn’t appear to be a PC version.
17/04/2012 at 22:29 Khemm says:
I’m OK with this. I still play many old games in a window (DosBox, ScummVM) and those game have hardly any graphics options and other stuff.. but they’re fun. That’s all that matters.
17/04/2012 at 23:42 mouton says:
Of course, it is all a mater of opinion. But old games were made long time ago using old technology. I find it a bit annoying when makers of a new game can put a little effort into a port but choose not to.
17/04/2012 at 19:36 Tokjos says:
You will die (because of terrible controls).
17/04/2012 at 19:37 RegisteredUser says:
Cue “It didn’t sell because PIRATES!!111″ in 3..2..1..
17/04/2012 at 19:37 Paul says:
As long as:
1) I can play it at 60fps contant with controller on my TV
2) at 1080p
3) without bugs, glitches and crashes
4) with its multiplayer element working well
I will be supper happy. I am buying it day 1 no matter what though.
17/04/2012 at 19:44 jacobvandy says:
THIS.
All it needs is to support an LCD monitor’s native res (which will be like 2-3x the resolution it ran on consoles) and actually scale in performance to the power of your rig. Being able to play Blight-town at more than 10 FPS will be worth it alone…
17/04/2012 at 19:50 Khemm says:
THIS x2.
17/04/2012 at 20:04 db1331 says:
Yup. Just being able to run it at 1980×1200 with 60fps is enough to get me to buy it. All the added bosses and gear are just icing on an already-better cake. People crying about mouse and keyboard support need to just get over it. They aren’t putting in the time for keyboard customization because nobody in their right mind would want to play this game with M+KB. Just like nobody in their right mind would want to play an FPS with a gamepad. You can do it, but you’re a fucking idiot.
17/04/2012 at 20:19 Tokamak says:
There have been some supposed reports that the game will be running at 30fps and 720p. Whether that actually means they didn’t bother optimizing it so that it runs 60fps or it’s actually locked to 30 fps and native resolution is 720p, with resolution options only resulting in up/downscaling from it or that your chosen resolution will not exceed that, has yet to be clarified.
17/04/2012 at 20:26 Bhazor says:
If it managed to stay at 30fps it would be a big improvement.
17/04/2012 at 22:28 Kaira- says:
But that would ruin all the atmosphere of 5FPSTown. /sarcasm
17/04/2012 at 20:19 Demiath says:
This, a thousand times this! It could – and should – always be argued that the PC deserves better than a straight port, but at least in this particular case a straight port of a game as single-minded and refined (from a design perspective) as Dark Souls is good enough. Not ideal, mind you, but good enough.
17/04/2012 at 19:38 thepavementview says:
From my understanding, the fact that they’re porting it to GFWL means they’ll be able to spend more time on new content for the PC. They’re porting the game from the X-Box version, meaning a lot of code can be recycled. More importantly, I really, really can’t stand all the hand-wringing this has prompted. Because they’re using an X-Box port, they can spend more time working on new content. We’re lucky that Namco is even porting the damn game in the first place, they aren’t going to change the platform, and it’s probably going to show up on Steam anyway (though you’ll have to launch Games for Windows Live, nonetheless) so petitioning to have GFWL removed is not only nitpicking but pointless as well. This situation is an excellent illustration of the entitlement many gamers feel. Just look at the Dark Souls Facebook page, and you’ll see many people who are claiming they refuse to buy the game on account of GFWL. The “if I can’t get the game MY WAY, I don’t want it at all” attitude is a bit bewildering (I know people are worried about things like graphics options and control mapping, I am concerned about these things as well, but the hand wringing I’ve seen is a bit much). It’s like a child who’s just been given some ice cream complaining that there are no sprinkles. Just shut up and eat your damn ice cream.
17/04/2012 at 19:39 Deepo says:
I can live with this stuff, just PLEASE don’t lock it at 30FPS.
17/04/2012 at 21:53 Baresark says:
That is honestly my biggest concern. That there will be framerate cap. I don’t buy games that don’t run smooth. And at 30 FPS, it will not do that.
17/04/2012 at 19:41 Robert says:
I think people underestimate the amount of work that would go in a port+graphic overhaul+mouse support+mod support. They would need to sell a lot of pc games to pay for that, as it’s not coming out of the console budget.
17/04/2012 at 19:42 Dominic White says:
I hate being right. The complaining about it not being a pure PC game has already started, and it’s not even out yet!
I shouldn’t be surprised – I saw people on this forum angry that Devil May Cry 4 wasn’t completely designed to fit mouse/keyboard play. News flash, people: Some games are just designed to be played with a gamepad.
17/04/2012 at 19:47 Khemm says:
Yep. It’s fucking ridiculous, what a bunch of whiny drama queens. What the hell did everyone expect? DX11? Tesselation? New control schemes designed from scratch? Unrealistic expectations much?
Just be happy we’re getting a PC version and use a gamepad. Sheesh.
17/04/2012 at 22:06 Prime says:
Agreed, Gents. Getting a bit tired of the ‘heaven-or-hell’ nature of many people’s thinking on this website. There never seems to be a realistic, balanced medium, just madly fizzy bubbles of runaway joy or the deepest blackest rage imaginable.
To all Dark Souls fans: It’s coming to PC. You got what you wanted. Now can we please just sit back and await the game?
17/04/2012 at 20:08 Max.I.Candy says:
it makes me laugh when ppl just WILL NOT use gamepads even though its the obvious and best solution
17/04/2012 at 20:12 Walter Heisenberg says:
The way Devil May Cry 4 and the Souls games control and handle are worlds apart. There’s nothing about Dark Souls controls that would feel unnatural when mapped to M&KB so if game suffers from poor key binding options that would be a damn shame.
17/04/2012 at 20:23 Demiath says:
Well, I disagree completely. Most things about Demon’s Souls/Dark Souls’ controls would feel very “unnatural” with mouse & keyboard. Which, of course, isn’t to say that M&K couldn’t work in a purely technical sense or that there shouldn’t be any M&K support at all; just that it’s never the ideal solution for this and many other games which were specifically designed with a gamepad in mind.
17/04/2012 at 20:34 Bhazor says:
Movement in particular is very important in Dark Souls, being able to fully control movement speed is crucial for large areas of the game. So if the k+b version is limited to a digital walk/run setting it would be losing a lot.
17/04/2012 at 22:01 Baresark says:
This is a false statement. M+KB tend to be about a million times more accurate and precise. It would be easy. They only need a walk, a run, and a sprint (common PC fair). The mouse could control the camera (which is what it does in a lot of games), mouse 1 does light attack, mouse 2 does hard attack. F uses your selected item. Q and E cycle your left and right hand weapons. Space can be your dodge button (which can be separate from sprint because there is no limitation what so ever with a KB…. I could go on and lay out exactly what a decent setup would be, but it’s not really worth. My point is that there is no way a controller could be a better option than M+KB. This whole, “how it’s meant to be” rhetoric just blows my mind. It’s as stupid as when Nintendo locked you into using the Wiimote for Twilight Princess, despite the Gamecube controller be a lot better for it.
17/04/2012 at 22:30 Kaira- says:
If anything, KB+M would be the inferior choice of control in DaS. Binary controls don’t work very well when the game is designed to heavily use analogue movement. With KB you simply can’t get that kind of precision and smoothness.
17/04/2012 at 23:03 Baresark says:
It certainly is not true. It doesn’t make heavy use of the analog. it has 3 movement speeds, handled just fine on a KB. That is not a very well thought out statement good sir and/or madam.
17/04/2012 at 23:43 jwoozy says:
Analogue-style movement in 3rd-person has been perfectly functional and precise on Kb/M ever since the mouse wheel was invented. You use the wheel to control speed and mouselook to control direction with shift as sprint/full speed, and then just move inventory management to the tab or q key for quick switching.
18/04/2012 at 00:33 delialli says:
I can tell from the way you’re talking about this that you haven’t played the game. Three different speeds CAN be handled easily by keyboard, but not quickly, and you’re going to want to be quick. That also leaves the problem of direction. You can’t mouselook, the game is designed for dual analogue and you’re going to want to look in one direction and run in another when I am about to kick you off a ledge in the crystal caves. I’m not saying it’ll be impossible with keyboard, but it’ll be a significant handicap because this game is so well designed for controller.
Dark Souls is like a David Lynch game. It’s hard to get into and at times you doubt if the creators even knew how to work their equipment, then a bit later it blows your mind.
17/04/2012 at 19:43 Johnny Lizard says:
If this game doesn’t come out in a big cardboard box, with a cloth map drawn by John Howe, and a novella of 86 pages MINIMUM, I’m boycotting Namco forever. Fuck you, Namco.
17/04/2012 at 19:45 Text_Fish says:
I wish someone would start a petition to stop people using change.org for their petitions. It’s buggier than a tuppeny console port.
17/04/2012 at 19:47 ScubaMonster says:
So let’s take a look at this; people were bitching they weren’t even going to get the game at all, and now that they ARE getting it, they’re going to bitch about GFWL and whatnot?
I’m all for demanding the most out of a product, but geez, some people will never be happy. Just be glad you’re getting it on PC at all.
17/04/2012 at 20:02 Donjo says:
I think it’s understandable that people don’t want a shit version of what they want.
18/04/2012 at 09:14 Prime says:
But how can a game be madly anticipated/universally praised one moment when it’s on consoles then not desired quite as much/at all when the exact same product (excluding the GFWL) is brought to PC?
I know we have higher standards than lowest-common denominator but this is an insane amount of bitching over a product we haven’t even seen yet that, thanks to the new content, sounds better than the version currently on consoles. “Oh no, despite them being gracious enough to give us what we asked for they’ve not read our 30-40 point checklist of things WE DEMAND in a ‘proper’ PC game – OH NOES!!!”
17/04/2012 at 21:50 Vinraith says:
A version of the game which randomly deletes/corrupts your save game is not a version of the game worth having.
18/04/2012 at 05:52 Pointless Puppies says:
Are people psychics today or something? Where in the world do you just happen to know that’ll be an issue with Dark Souls? Because, as you probably already know but choose to ignore, those issues aren’t present in every GFWL game.
17/04/2012 at 22:08 Baresark says:
You are looking at it all wrong. People weren’t bitching about not getting the game at all. They wanted it and let Namco Bandai know that if they put it out, it would sell. This also came with the understanding that if they were going to release it on the PC, they would probably want to do it right. Well, they don’t want to do it right. They want to shoehorn people into playing it the way some people who have zero experience with PC games believe it is best played.
Also, remember, people are making a ruckus because they actually give a shit about this game. While I agree that many PC gamers are self entitled twits, we are not all that way. I just want the game to be as good as it can be so there is incentive to release future iteration of it. But, they are self sabotaging. And people who defend the position are enablers. Namco Bandai is an alcoholic who will keep hitting his hand with a hammer, and enablers let them keep doing it without even trying to stop them.
17/04/2012 at 23:44 jwoozy says:
As a prize for your thoughtful input on this matter, I reward you with a cookie.
(The cookie is covered in shit)
17/04/2012 at 19:49 Ultra-Humanite says:
I’m excited to see piracy get the blame for poor sales when this is released.
17/04/2012 at 19:49 magnus says:
There was probably going to be a port anyway and the petition was there to draw attention to it. At least that’s ‘my’ angle on it.
17/04/2012 at 20:10 Max.I.Candy says:
your angle is incorrect.
17/04/2012 at 20:19 Walter Heisenberg says:
Care to explain why?
17/04/2012 at 23:19 Max.I.Candy says:
i asked before and after release if it was coming to PC and it was only after the petition gained momentum that execs took it seriously.
they wouldnt have deliberately hidden it because they didnt think there was a market for the game on PC in the first place.
if you needed more proof then surely todays news of it being a straightforward port is enough?
17/04/2012 at 19:52 MarcusCardiff says:
They just lost me as a customer.
17/04/2012 at 22:21 Prime says:
For giving you what you wanted? A version of the game you could play on PC? Sounds to me like they’re not losing much.
17/04/2012 at 22:23 Brun says:
People wanted a proper PC game, not just a “version playable on PC.” I fully understand why Namco isn’t providing that, but I can also understand why people are disappointed and upset.
17/04/2012 at 22:40 Prime says:
People should have specified in the petition they signed, then. It’s great to dream but everyone knew this was a possibility. They knew and yet they still whooped, cheered and patted each other on the back like they suddenly had a direct line to Santa. Now it’s “they’ve lost me as a customer” and bitter tears of disappointment even though they’re still getting what they asked for. It’s ludicrous.
18/04/2012 at 00:27 RobF says:
“I know you put I want a pony for Xmas on your list, hon but you should have specified you wanted a live one with all its legs and not with its guts splayed out everywhere and its intestines wrapped around the doorknob on your Christmas list. How was I to know!”
18/04/2012 at 08:48 Prime says:
“A pony? But I got you a pony! What do you mean you wanted an Arabian racing stallion, exactly 16 hands high, with a pure black coat except for that one white patch on its nose? What do you mean you wanted it to be able to count to nineteen with its hooves? Oh, you wanted it to prance like a Lippinzaner as well? You asked for “a pony” and that’s what you’re getting, you ungrateful brat!”
While I completely understand the desire to have the PC treated with as much respect for its capabilities as possible – I boycott Ubisoft games currently for this very reason – in this case there was absolutely no guarantee we were going to get a slick, polished, respectful, PC-adapted port. None. Nada. Zilch. Yes, it’s disappointing but we’re still miraculously getting the game we asked for. No wonder PC gamers have a reputation for being moaning bitches! We’re apparently, judging by the noise, never happy unless our internal wishlists of conditions (the ones we failed to put in the original request) have been catered to!
19/04/2012 at 01:14 RobF says:
Next time we ask a company for a game to be ported we’ll make sure we put “ps: – must work too” in your honour.
17/04/2012 at 19:52 kyrieee says:
Welp
Might make me buy a controller
17/04/2012 at 19:55 Dr I am a Doctor says:
There are people playing without a controller? Whoa
17/04/2012 at 20:30 Bhazor says:
Crazy, right?
It’s like wanting to play Street Fighter with the mouse.
17/04/2012 at 19:58 Sirico says:
All that seems reasonable tbh when the next game comes along I’m sure all these issues will be addressed. The binary controls of a keyboard would be terrible for certain bits of Darksouls. Sounds like they’re at least giving the option but no matter how good they support the mouse and keyboard this is one domain the controller is better suited.
17/04/2012 at 19:59 Donjo says:
Can’t wait for PRESS START TO PLAY
17/04/2012 at 22:40 Khemm says:
Portal 2 told you “NOT TO TURN OFF YOUR CONSOLE”, but hey, it was Valve, so they can get away with everything.
18/04/2012 at 00:03 Donjo says:
I didn’t see that when I played it.. I believe you though. They did a terrible console port of it, I was still seething the third time I played through. Terrible optimisation for mouse and keyboard, no graphics options AND I had to play it through GFWL. Valve really don’t give a shit about PC gamers.
17/04/2012 at 20:02 ZIGS says:
I refuse to buy a gamepad just to play a single game. I’ve been playing on PC since 1999 and never used/needed one so fuck you if you think otherwise
17/04/2012 at 20:07 Freud says:
Fighting windmills is much more efficient with analogue controls.
17/04/2012 at 20:22 Bhazor says:
“Grrrr I can’t believe they’re making me buy a joystick to play a flight sim”
“Grrrr I can’t believe they’re making me buy a plastic guitar to play guitar hero”
Some games don’t play well on a keyboard and mouse. Try Street Fighter 2 for example.
Really if you are serious enough about gaming to come here then you should be serious enough to spend £15 on a half way decent game controller.
17/04/2012 at 20:45 ZIGS says:
I played Street Fighter 4 with keyboard just fine, thank you. Like I said, I never needed to use a gamepad so far
17/04/2012 at 21:00 Khemm says:
So who says you won’t be a able to play DS with K&M “just fine”, too?
Mind you, keyboard also was sort of an afterthought for Street Fighter and a less preferable way to play the game than with an arcade stick.
17/04/2012 at 21:20 Bhazor says:
Now if you’re playing Street Fighter on a keyboard you will never in a trillion years experience the game. You will think you have. But you will be cheated. It is such a sadness to think you’ve played Street Fighter 4 on your FUCKING keyboard.
Get real.
17/04/2012 at 21:38 ZIGS says:
I tried playing Street Fighter with a gamepad once (not to mention back when I had a Sega Saturn), still prefer the keyboard. Where’s your god now?
18/04/2012 at 00:09 Beva says:
I tried playing HL2 with M/KB once, it was awful, so I switched to my Tac 2, now THAT, was playing HL2.
17/04/2012 at 20:04 mikmanner says:
Come on! They have limited budget and time to complete this port, it’s coming out on PC, it’s being made by people not used to developing PC games. They’re adding new content… quit complaining. Beyond Good and Evil for example, I’m glad I got to play that, at no point did I think, well…I wish this had HDR and mod tools.
The entire core combat has been created from day one to be used with a controller, they want you to play it with a controller. You should play it with a controller, I’m almost certain it would be a lesser experience if played with a keyboard and mouse, no matter how hard you think of the best key bindings.
17/04/2012 at 20:07 FieldOfTheBattle says:
You people are fucking pathetic, you BEGGED for this game to be on PC and now all you do is bitch and moan because the game is not ported the way you like it. Well be grateful you are getting ANYTHING at all, show Namco there is demand for their games not by begging and bitching but by buying and maybe Namco will have so much trust in the PC market that the next game will be tailored to your needs.
17/04/2012 at 21:01 Khemm says:
Totally agree. I mean holy hell, I can’t believe some bullshit people are writing here.
17/04/2012 at 21:55 theleif says:
I don’t see anyone asking for something outlandish here. It’s not like people are up in arms for lack of physx, tesselation or DX11. I can see that there can be difficulties to make the game playable on M+KB, but on the other hand, my experience with the control scheme for Demons Souls (I haven’t played DS) on the PS3 was pretty frustrating, so mouselook would be a great boon for me. But I’m generally pretty sucky with a controller, so it could be that.
What I want is the game to not be locked at 30 (or any other) fps, I want it to run at the resolution my screen supports, I want to be able to change AA, AF and vsync. I would really like if I had a choice of texture quality and view distance and such, but it’s not a make or brake deal if I don’t.
I am going to pay (I assume) 50€ for this game, so I expect them to make the game fit for the device I buy it for. Is that such an outrageous demand?
17/04/2012 at 22:11 Baresark says:
That is horribly failed circular logic. If everyone buys a game that sucks (not saying it will, I will still be buying this on the PC), then that tells the number guys that what they did was ok. And it makes it look like fringe gamers are bitching. It does not look like the majority of people who play the game are discontented with the controls or options.
17/04/2012 at 22:31 Prime says:
Do we always have to go for the most cynical way to look at everything? Why can’t we just accept that we got what we flaming well asked for – the game on PC – and smile and say thank you and look forward to playing it without working ourselves into lathers humming and hawing between which horrible outcome we’re going to get shafted with?
I didn’t even want the fucking game but, after months and months and MONTHS of people on this website going on and on and on and on and on and on an…about how wonderful it is and how it’s the ‘best game of 2011′ I’m now rather intrigued to sit and play it without having to fork out hundreds for a console I don’t want. Frankly, if it’s as good as everyone’s been saying then the minor inconvenience of having to use a gamepad (which, if you truly value the PC as a platform that can adapt to any game you throw at it then you’ll have one anyway) or the vague stigma of having to use GFWL should be minor hurdles for you. Or, as I have begun to suspect, have people been talking rather a lot of hot gas, as per usual?
17/04/2012 at 22:36 Brun says:
There’s nothing vague about the stigma against GFWL.
Also, the implication behind the request for DS PC was that it would be a solid port. Maybe the petition didn’t say that explicitly, or maybe it did and Namco has chosen to ignore it.
I think a lot of the reason for the cynical view, though, is that Namco-Bandai are setting themselves up for failure. The concern is that if DS PC fails, Namco-Bandai won’t understand WHY, and write off the PC as a bunch of pirates and thieves who didn’t put their money where their mouth was. Viewed from this perspective I’d almost rather them not make the port if they aren’t going to do it right, precisely to avoid the above scenario.
18/04/2012 at 06:00 Pointless Puppies says:
The issue here is people’s definitions with what they consider a “solid port”. Given the circumstances, that is the reason for the port (an internet petition), From’s lack of PC dev experience, their short timeframe, the fact they’re adding more content, for me a “solid port” would mean a game that isn’t riddled with bugs, works well with a gamepad, doesn’t have horrible issues like deleting gamesaves, and runs fairly decently (as in, mostly 60FPS, maybe a couple of dips here and there) with a midrange graphics card.
And here’s the thing: the definition of “solid port” changes depending on the developer. My definition of a “solid port” for a Valve game is one that doesn’t even have the word “port” in it. I fully expect the game to be designed from the ground up for the PC, mostly because that’s the standard they’ve set for themselves. Begrudgingly, my expectations for most EA ports tend to be very low, mostly because they’ve communicated pretty well they don’t give a fuck.
What I find funny is that several people here (not saying you specifically) are randomly pulling out of their ass arbitrary definitions of “solid port” for From Software/Bamco and crying foul when these random definitions aren’t met. Like, for instance, people are crying foul that the game may not have mod support, even though Bioware gets a free pass on that for the Mass Effect series for no good reason. Where the hell are these standards coming from?
17/04/2012 at 22:37 kud13 says:
erm, since when is “showing interest in a product” equivalent to “begging”?
just about everyone who keeps mentioning “entitlement” and acting like it’s a miracle that DS is coming to PC is forgetting something. The game is coming to PC because Namco wants our money.
If it wants my money, it has to convince me its product has a value that equal or greater to the asking price. I’ve already said several times why GaFWL is a major no-no in terms of value for me.
RE: controllers. every PC uses M+KB as primary method of input. Gamepads are an unnecessary peripheral. Making your product require an unnecessary peripheral by offering a sub-par experience on the system’s primary input method is not a sound decision.
18/04/2012 at 09:05 Prime says:
Sorry you feel that way about Gamepads. The handheld ergonomics of a pad are better for many things. You can’t play Street Fighter with m+kb. Not to any kind of winning standard, and certainly not easily. I prefer using pads for platform games and complex 3rd person action titles (Dark Souls, Legacy of Kain, Tomb Raider, etc) Analogue sticks are great for driving games. Joysticks are better for flight sims. This m+kb fetishism just doesn’t reflect the reality of owning a PC. The game is the most important thing, not the hardware you use to play it with.
17/04/2012 at 20:08 WrongThinker says:
While slightly disappointing, I think “Dark Souls at a Smooth Frame Rate” is bonus enough.
I truly hope that not supporting some PC bells and whistles doesn’t keep people from this game, which is truly beautiful and incredible.
17/04/2012 at 22:33 Prime says:
Two words for you: FPS Limiter. It could happen.
17/04/2012 at 22:56 ZIGS says:
Yeah, just wait until they say it’s capped at 30 FPS. I mean, it IS a direct port right? That’s their excuse for the lack of customizable controls so don’t be surprised
17/04/2012 at 20:15 puzl says:
If anyone genuinely expected Bamco to do anything more than a straight-up port of this game, then they were living in cuckoo land. Japanese developers/publishers have never understood the idiosyncrasies of the PC market, or simply don’t consider it worthwhile enough to the extra effort. Frankly i’m amazed that we’re getting new bosses/areas/gear etc BUT, I also remember seeing some of the boss designs in the PS3 version’s artbook that came with the limited edition, so it’s more likely that this was cut content (due to time constraints) that has been revisited. It’s pretty much a given that it’ll come out as DLC for the console versions too.
I’ve put in well over 500 hours of this game on the PS3 (mainly for PVP… lol lagstabs, etc..) and I can tell you one thing I know as a PC gamer: this game will be AWFUL with a keyboard/mouse, especially now that they’re not bothering to change the interface. There are 3 movement speeds for example: slow walk, fast walk, and run, all of which need to be used fast and often to succeed in this game. Analogue control is pretty much essential in my opinion, much in the same way that I could never play a competitive FPS on a gamepad. I’m sure many here will argue that they’ll get used to it, but coming from a PC and console gamers perspective, it’s just not going to be as much fun using the KB/mouse.
As for the graphics and such, it is generally a very pretty game anyway, plus i’m sure it’ll be quite easy to use FXAA-injector or other similar tools to get the necessary AA/AF etc.. just in case they don’t program it in. As the owner of a fast i7/gtx580 equipped machine, i’m sure this will run Blightown & Anor Londo with a nice framerate, regardless of how lazy the port is!
One thing most people probably overlook (but is absolutely crucial imo) is that the PS3 version of Dark Souls was not region locked. Anyone around the world could play with anybody else, which combined with the P2P matchmaking system has left the PVP game a cess pit of phantom backstabs, random crystal soulmass’ in your face and general shittiness that it is today. The userbase on PS3 is about 90% Japanese in my experience and as a UK gamer, 500+ latency in a game that demands such split-milesecond reflexes is just a joke really. If GFWL will do one thing right, it’ll at least match us up with players who actually feel like they’re on this planet, heh.
Anyway TL;DR: This is an amazing game and even a straight-up port is probably better than most other PC games you’ll play this year or indeed any other year. Just buy a control pad for the love of god.
17/04/2012 at 20:23 Pointless Puppies says:
It amazes me that people are whining and bitching about having to get a gamepad at this day and age. I abhor playing FPS’s on a gamepad, but a whole bunch of other games that were clearly designed with consoles in mind actually control better with one. Do these people never play flight sims or racing games? Do they really play games like Devil May Cry 4 with a KB+M?
17/04/2012 at 20:31 puzl says:
Exactly. PC gamers are the first to laugh at console players using gamepads to play FPS’, but it’s the exact same issue with third-person action games when using a KB/mouse. It just doesn’t work as good as a controller. Combine that with the fact that DkS requires pin-precise movement/timing and you’re just doing yourself an injustice by not playing it on a gamepad. Still don’t believe me? Then you’re gonna have fun finding out the hard way with the archers and painting guardians in Anor Londo, heh.
17/04/2012 at 23:26 Max.I.Candy says:
yeah have fun walking along those 60ft high beams with kb/m.
18/04/2012 at 02:52 Runs With Foxes says:
I can’t believe people on a PC games site are saying things like this. You are familiar with the concept of ‘mouse look’, aren’t you? That is, you can use the mouse to point your character exactly where you want to go, with finer and more responsive controls than analog sticks give. Crossing the beams should be a hell of a lot easier with mouse and keyboard — if it was ported properly.
18/04/2012 at 06:03 Pointless Puppies says:
By the same token, I can’t believe people are judging an entire form of control input simply by the mouse/joystick portion. You probably ought to realize that there’s a lot more to these form of inputs than just a mouse/joystick.
17/04/2012 at 22:26 Soon says:
“Do these people never play flight sims or racing games? Do they really play games like Devil May Cry 4 with a KB+M?”
I think it’s just a coincidence that games that need controllers have never really appealed to me. I’m curious about Dark Souls, though.
17/04/2012 at 23:28 Max.I.Candy says:
never played racing games?
18/04/2012 at 00:46 identiti_crisis says:
I grew up playing racing games on keyboard. I consider it a sign of the game’s quality if I’m able to “adequately” (= fun) and consistently play the thing off the keyboard. The Flatout games are a great example of this.
The same applies to simulators, believe it or not; I’ve played both Richard Burns Rally and Grand Prix Legends on my keyboard, and they were fine. Sure, it’s more involving and possibly easier to go faster (depending on the game) with a wheel, but a keyboard is still the most common interface, so it should at least be enjoyable, even if it’s (arguably) not “ideal”.
18/04/2012 at 03:05 Max.I.Candy says:
i grew up playing racing games on kb/m too mate, but my gaming habits evolved as gaming hardware evolved.join us!
18/04/2012 at 03:37 identiti_crisis says:
I still think good (fully functional, and engaging) keyboard controls are a minimum requirement.
If nothing else it’ll hook your players in, and maybe then they’ll consider “extra” hardware worth the expense and desk clutter. That’s exactly why I have a wheel; permanently attached to my desk, no less.
17/04/2012 at 22:18 Baresark says:
All of the arguments about the necessity of analogue movement with this game are wrong. Three movements speeds and high reaction time are part of a huge amount of PC games. I will still buy this game, and if the M+KB support sucks, I’ll use a gamepad. That is fine by me, a lot of games are just better with that, while others are horrible with it. That is a fact of life. I just can’t stand how poorly thought out this argument is. As an example, The Witcher 2 was able to be played from day one with a gamepad. I played it that way a little bit myself. But the game was a billion times more reactive with a M+KB. The mouse alone will almost completely eliminate the occasional fight you have with camera.
I’m ultimately fine with using a controller, but cut the BS about the necessity of analog movement.
17/04/2012 at 20:18 Pointless Puppies says:
Are people really THAT surprised, or is it just le sighing for the sake of le sighing?
Let’s look at the facts that we knew since before this interview came along. We knew the port was going to be done in a few months and that it was going to get extra content, meaning less time for making an extra polished PC version with all the bells and whistles. We knew the developer is small and they have little experience with developing on the PC. We knew that Namco Bandai is a weird publisher that seems to decide on localization/port decisions purely by throwing darts at a dart board. And we knew that this is a console game through and through that only got a PC port greenlight because of an internet petition, of all things.
To know all of the above and yet still somehow expect a fully-polished PC version with pristine KB+M controls and full mod support is willingly feigning ignorance and setting yourself up for disappointment. The fact that Miyazaki is even considering mod support is surprising to me, I would’ve bet he was going to say “lolno. We’re barely getting this up and running on the PC as it is with this budget+timeframe+dev experience”.
Beggars can’t be choosers. The fact that it’s coming at all is still something that I never would’ve guessed beyond my wildest imagination but it’s coming, and all because of an internet petition that nobody else would’ve bothered to listen to.
17/04/2012 at 22:04 Ysellian says:
Beggers can’t be choosers and nothing else needs to be said :)
17/04/2012 at 22:45 kud13 says:
Except we aren’t beggars. We are consumers, and Namco wants our money.
God, for every person moaning about “entitlement”, there’s at least one person saying “we should just do what the publisher tells us and give them our money no matter what kind of product they decide to make”.
17/04/2012 at 23:19 Baresark says:
This statement is all over this thread and it’s completely out place.
It seems torn between just being thankful we got anything at all and not even giving the game a chance before we declare it’s a no sale. Both extremes are nonconstructive.
As they are out to get our money, we have every right to not be happy with how a product is coming out, and every right to not buy a product because we don’t like the controls or don’t like GFWL. And if we don’t let them know we are unhappy then nothing will ever change. And they will fail as a publisher who has a vested interest in PC games by not doing a good job when they release games. It’s not rocket science. Yeah sure, they don’t “need” to release things on the PC, but we are talking about a market with potentially millions of customers for them. If they are too stupid to see that, then they deserve to fail.
At the same time, we shouldn’t declare it a no buy based on what one guy said in an interview. There is probably one thing that will make me not buy this game and that is a frame rate cap. But barring that (or a workaround by the very devoted PC community), I will be buying this game. I would prefer a good KB+M setup, but I have played for hundreds of hours on my PS3, so a controller wouldn’t be that big of a deal. PC gamers are supposed to be versatile after all.
18/04/2012 at 09:26 Ysellian says:
Indeed people have a right to say they don’t like the product they are getting and I do regret my statement about beggars. On the other hand in this particular instance it concerns a game that had a snowball’s chance in hell of getting ported, especially with Namco as their publishers.
17/04/2012 at 20:18 Bhazor says:
To be fair this would play badly on a keyboard and mouse. Not because of the buttons or camera or what have you but because Dark Soul’s requires precision movement speed which is something that analog controllers have and keyboards don’t. If the PC version is limited to a walk/run system on keyboard it could actually become unplayable.
17/04/2012 at 20:46 Xzi says:
The mouse wheel comes to mind here…
Honestly, all I could think every second while playing the Xbox 360 version was, “this game would be so much better on a mouse and keyboard.” And it really would be if they were to just put a little effort into it. This isn’t Devil May Cry or Assassin’s Creed. The Souls games are more about precision and timing with button presses than they are about wildly wailing on your controller in order to do things quickly.
And if it really was designed with the gamepad as the only primary control method, then they REALLY fucked up, because the vast majority of the control scheme is completely unintuitive as-is. Not only could it have been done MUCH better on a keyboard and mouse, but there is room for improvement on the gamepad controls, too.
17/04/2012 at 23:27 Baresark says:
The analog movement argument is a fallacy. That fact that you think there is only two movement options available to the typical KB+M setup shows you don’t do much in the way of PC gaming. There are only 3 relevant movement speeds in Dark Souls. Walk, run and sprint. There are a whole lot of PC games that use that particular setup. Also, it will be easier to be more precise with a mouse controlling the camera.
This type of statement is a red herring. So please stop using it. It’s not constructive at all.
18/04/2012 at 00:23 Beva says:
Except when you actually lock onto things, which is something you will NEED to do, you’ll be able to move in all kinds of directions, like, WAY more then eight. On the other hand, maybe they should remove the combat system, and the lock on, and the speed of movement and maybe switch to first person and turn it into that great Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind combat that is ever so exciting and fun and works so well.
I can understand some of the things people are upset about, but blindly claimng KB/M would work better is rediculous, as is complaining about the original controls for Dark/Demon Souls. I’m not even sure if the people are hating on the port or the actual core of the game.
And, frankly, if you hate the idea of this game/port/whatever don’t buy it, surely?
18/04/2012 at 01:04 identiti_crisis says:
It worked alright in Severance: Blade of Darkness, a game which clearly influenced both Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls. (Or maybe there’s some other common ancestry, I’m not sure – it was still perfectly fine.)
They should at least make the keyboard controls workable and fun. It doesn’t matter if they’re (arguably) not “ideal”, most PC owners have keyboards, and it would be a shame for them to have a negative experience with the game because the controls simply don’t “work”. Making the game playable only on “a” gamepad is a very bad move, in my opinion. Of course, we don’t know yet.
Besides, we should be encouraging more “non-gamers” to realise their true calling…
18/04/2012 at 07:35 pkt-zer0 says:
Why would you NEED the lock-on when you have the precision of KB+M? I see it as a crutch for gamepads, you can get by without it just fine otherwise.
18/04/2012 at 09:41 JackShandy says:
A lot of spells and things home towards whatever you’re locked on to. If you’re a mage you can’t do without it.
18/04/2012 at 09:31 Beva says:
It worked “alright” in Severance yeah, once you figured out which button was switch lock to the far left enemy and which one was the close right etc. But once you got used to it it was fine, I guess. But personally I think Severance is the prime example of why Dark Souls works better on a pad.
@pkt-zer0
Because maybe it offers a great variation to the combat system that you otherwise wouldn’t have, maybe? Maybe in stead of it being a crutch it’s a part of the actual gameplay? In what game can I get by without it just fine, Skyrim? Because Skyrim has GREAT combat, right? The closest you get to a decent melee combat system with mouse look is M&B, and still I personally find that not as good as DS (or Darksiders for that matter).
18/04/2012 at 13:25 identiti_crisis says:
Yeah, it might be “better” for some on a pad, but that’s not the issue at hand, is it? I’m repeating myself now, but there is no excuse for the game being “unplayable” on the keyboard; harder, yes, fine, maybe, (arguably: we’ll have to see), but not unplayable. Controllers are controllers, they need to be tuned in exactly the same way.
And this idea of “getting used” to Severance’s controls is amusing, considering that’s exactly what I had to do to play Demon’s Souls! Every game takes some “getting used to”, and the more similar a control scheme is to that which you’ve experienced before, the less time it takes to get used to.
With that in mind, are we to take it that this argument really only involves people saying the game should cater (in a fundamental sense) to their “preferred” control method? Why is that such a bad thing?
18/04/2012 at 16:59 Beva says:
I would never want a game to be unplayable on a keyboard and I very much doubt this one will be, what I mean is that some games just lend themselves better to different control options(DS being one of those games). And quite a large number of people here will not, or can not accept that.
18/04/2012 at 20:53 identiti_crisis says:
Actually, I suspect the objection is to being told they should be using a certain controller in the first place. I’m sure it works both ways.
17/04/2012 at 20:27 CommanderZx2 says:
What did you expect of course it was going to be a cheap straight port. If people still buy it and like it they may make a proper PC version for the game’s sequel.
17/04/2012 at 20:54 Maniacal says:
Oh well, I probably wasn’t going to buy it anyway (mostly for reasons not directly related to the game itself though). There is no way I am going to pay full price for a half-assed port, nor am I going to spend over $100 CAD on the game (full price + gamepade + taxes).
17/04/2012 at 21:20 Metalhead9806 says:
Why Sigh?
I wasn’t expecting the game to be remade for the PC.
I knew I would be using a gamepad and the only graphical enhancements over the PS3 version would be higher resolution, Graphics card Forced AA and 60+ fps and GFWL makes sense since it makes if easily ported over from xbox.
I’m so happy that I get to buy this on PC with new content!
17/04/2012 at 21:21 TaroYamada says:
I don’t care about extra graphical settings, I don’t mind straight console ports. We can force AA if it isn’t in the menu’s, and we get higher resolutions and frame rates. That’s still a PC bump. Also don’t care about the controller issue, this looks like a game that would play better on the 360 pad. I don’t want GFWL though, hopefully it is steamworks.
17/04/2012 at 21:24 ossia says:
I can’t stand the arrogance of asking for a port of a console game, and then moaning that you’re getting a port of a console game. I thought all this “entitlement” talking points from publishers was garbage but this kind of stuff makes me re-think it.
17/04/2012 at 21:24 TwwIX says:
I smell a half assed port afoot.
17/04/2012 at 21:34 Fox89 says:
It is important we remember why this is happening at all. The very fact that there is going to be a PC port at all is a favour to us. Or rather, it is a gamble on the publisher’s part. I would love to see loads of good PC support, I would love to see GFWL removed, but at the end of the day this is Namco’s toe-in-the-water of a market they were not expecting to put their game on.
Because of that I expect From have an extremely limited budget to get it done, to minimize the publisher’s risk if PC gamers like us don’t put our money where our mouth is come release. Yes, we should keep making it known that we don’t want GFWL, what we expect a PC port to have, and so on. But at the same time we need to buy the game and show Namco Bandai that there is a valid PC market, so that when they make the next game they have a reason to provide us better support.
It’s a give and take relationship between publishers and consumers. We give money, we take game. But in this case we need to give more that just money, we need to give them a viable reason to invest in the PC platform. So that in the future we can take more games and better ports. I’ll be buying this as long as the port isn’t totally unacceptable, and I hope we can all step up to the plate.
17/04/2012 at 21:42 pkt-zer0 says:
“Or rather, it is a gamble on the publisher’s part.”
Half-assing the port and slapping on GfWL isn’t helping with the risk, there.
17/04/2012 at 21:48 Fox89 says:
It’s a hell of a lot cheaper. If you’re going to risk losing a lot of money on an unknown market, it makes sense to keep that number as low as possible.
I can’t make myself hold a grudge against Namco Bandai for having that attitude. If it were my money I might well do the same thing. Besides, it’s not ‘slapping on’ GFWL, the netcode is extremely similar to what they already have for Xbox Live.
17/04/2012 at 21:57 ossia says:
Half-assing the port by….porting the Xbox360 version? What do you expect, to be catered to with special treatment? This whole demographic that’s complaining so loudly about something that was practically begged for just seems really spoiled and hard to please and if this is how the community acts when it gets the same game as everyone else then I can understand why more developers don’t pay attention to it.
17/04/2012 at 23:04 Tams80 says:
This sense of entitlement isn’t going to help anyone.
17/04/2012 at 23:37 Baresark says:
Entitlement has literally nothing to do with it. People are making statements that are relevant for the absolute success of this product. Why are people so dense about this. They aren’t having a PC release just to placate to the PC users. They aren’t doing this just so us PC gamers can get hold of their best product. They want people to pay them for this product. I’m buying it, but I get so completely tired of seeing this line of thought. Entitlement means that people feel they have a right to this product. While I get tired of seeing the whining as much as anyone, entitlement doesn’t begin to be the right word. No one is acting like they have a right to the exact product they want, they are saying, “hey, just so you know, if you do X,Y, and Z, I can’t support your product”. My only requirement is that there is no frame rate cap. That is it. I want to have a smooth experience with this, and if I can’t I’ll stick to the PS3 edition. Which comes with shitty frame rates included as well.
19/04/2012 at 15:10 Lowbrow says:
“Entitlement” has lost all meaning these days. It’s just a negative pejorative now, much like “liberal” in the Fox news era.
17/04/2012 at 21:37 clumsyandshy says:
Was really looking forward to be playing Dark Souls again, now with mouse and keyboard. Not having to constantly rely on the lock-on system would change the gameplay in a very interesting way.
I don’t dislike playing games with a 360 pad at all, but was just hoping for a different and possibly way better way of playing. Surely it could be done.
17/04/2012 at 21:47 Vinraith says:
I’d sign that petition if it wasn’t simultaneously proposing the inclusion of Steamworks. I suspect I’m not alone.
17/04/2012 at 21:57 TillEulenspiegel says:
I struggle to give enough of a crap about a single upcoming videogame to sign a petition in any case. But yes, the “do Steamworks instead” angle makes me uneasy, and I think I’m much more positive about Steam than you are. That’s just exchanging one unnecessary dependency (that prevents resale, etc) for another, somewhat less shitty one.
17/04/2012 at 23:17 Vinraith says:
@Till
Well, I’d certainly agree that GfWL is the worse of the two (simply because I’ve never had Steam corrupt/delete my save games), but yeah, both are unnecessary and problematic.
Actually, the only thing to recommend GfWL is the existence of xliveless and the like. “Easier to remove” really is a worthwhile feature in the case of systems like these.
17/04/2012 at 22:45 Khemm says:
You’re not.
17/04/2012 at 21:55 Cryo says:
There goes my mild interest.
17/04/2012 at 22:01 sephiroth says:
played the 360 version and wasn’t massivly impressed. I think its the poor graphics and horrid controls that made me put it down, even telling myself the controls were that messed up to increase the dificulty didn’t help as it just made me say to myslef BS lazy design if thats the case. (right or wrong its how I felt).
kinda interested in the pc version to really see what the fuss is about.
BUT
That was asuming improved grapics (no crysis but better) and remappable controls seems this game has neither. shame
GFWL is the reason I will not buy it anyway however. id rather not have eyes than have to use GFWL and Im a big fan of vision esspecialy looking at lady parts
17/04/2012 at 23:35 Max.I.Candy says:
what you really mean is that you kept dying,gave up and put the game down before you had a chance to get better and realise that actually the controls where precise and perfect for the game.
17/04/2012 at 23:46 Baresark says:
I played that game for hundreds of hours, but it did have one very faulty control element. If you accidentally double tapped a motion (such as jumping back away from the opponent), it would complete one, then immediately do the second one. Resulted in a lot of unnecessary deaths. There is also the occasion where I would accidentally hit an attack button while I was dodging around and after my dodge was over it would attack.
It was really annoying. It’s simple, the game should not be accepting inputs while it is in the middle of doing something else. I still loved the game, but it was problematic sometimes.
17/04/2012 at 22:15 Daryl says:
Disappointing to hear that it will be a straight console port. I’m not that worried that the game will most likely require a controller to play. What I am worried about is that it will probably only support the XBox 360 controller. Seeing as how I have a Logitech Dual Action, if that’s the case, then I will definitely be skipping this. I am aware that there are programs that can emulate the 360 controller, but they don’t always work. I have actually never been able to get it to work.
I do not believe this game will sell well, and it will end up getting blamed on piracy, rather than bad decisions from the publisher.
17/04/2012 at 22:37 DickSocrates says:
I am always amazing and baffled when GFWL is used for anything, or that it exists at all. The only reason quite a few million people have PCs at all is for gaming and yet MS is consistentingly trying to sabotage or neglect the gaming side of Windows, all while Apple are standing right their, ready to topple perhaps the last pillar of Windows.
17/04/2012 at 22:38 Tams80 says:
Do we even know how good or bad the GfWL implementation for this will be? No, so please stop making it an issue unless it actually becomes one.
As for being a straight port; that’s a shame, but I’m still glad we are getting it. Hopefully some modders will be able to change the control scheme (if not using gamepad will suffice) and give us for resolutions. That’s at least more likely than some good extra levels being made by the community (and thus extras levels over an optimised port can be seen as better)*.
*This assumes it will be moddable.
Could we just enjoy games as games for once? Enough of ‘us’ PC gamers and ‘those’ console gamers; there are many of us who don’t fit into either anyway. If the game is fun, then surely it has done it’s main job? Better optimization would be great, but do we really need to make such a fuss?
17/04/2012 at 22:39 Brun says:
Until I see a good GFWL implementation I will continue to assume they’re all bad.
17/04/2012 at 23:07 Tams80 says:
Well, if you could provide at least a list of games you’ve had problems with and the problems you’ve had it would be enlightening.
So far the only problem I’ve had is with Section 8: Prejudice and that was because the ‘create offline profile’ option wasn’t very clear (and even that is partly my fault as well as bad UI design).
18/04/2012 at 02:54 kud13 says:
Bioshock 2: Games for Windows-Liive! requires an update do you wish to proceed now. Clicking “no” will close the game. –>”yes”–> 20 failed update attempts later–>re-download GaFWL installer–> watch it fail to install properly–>try several sources on the internet(excluding xbox.com, which is unavailable at the moment”–2.5 hours later successfully re-install, update, select “offline mode”–> never touch it again.
Batman: Arkham Asylum–all of the above, including re-download and re-install of the game.
Batman: Arkham City (most recent one)–all of the above, including having to manually update re-installed GaFWL through Windows Update. When attempted to play on a different PC (the game is installed, along with Steam, on an external hard drive. no issues installing Steam on new machine, my entire library is recognized. Try to continue playing Batman–>encounter infinite update loop where the client crashes mid-way through update.
each time I start up an GaWFL game, it costs me several hours of my life. The only exception is Dawn of War 2, which nonetheless was apparently so terrible for multiplayer (I’ve only ever used it for offline mode single player, so no comment) that Relic went with Steam for the second expansion.
17/04/2012 at 23:20 rareh says:
I had no problems with Flatout ultimate carnage which used GFWL.
That was the only game i played there, so for me , so far my experience with GFWL has been perfect.
17/04/2012 at 22:44 Xzi says:
“Don’t question your shit sandwich. Just eat it, so that we may receive more shit sandwiches in the future.”
I’m sorry, it’s just not in my nature to think this way. Even if it were, I would make every attempt to reject that logic. I just have a very hard time seeing how I’m supposed to feel honored by the opportunity to spend money on a title with 1/4th of the features that we’ve come to expect as standard in PC games.
And no, I was not out petitioning for Dark Souls to come to the PC previously, although I was excited when I heard the petition worked. Up until the news about GFWL and this, anyway.
18/04/2012 at 00:29 Beva says:
Great, you didn’t want it, then you slightly wanted it, now you don’t want it again? I think your point was made seventeen posts ago. Nobody is forcing you to buy a product you do not want/aren’t happy with.
For you it’s win/win, you both get to not play a horrible dumbed down console game with shit controls AND you get to see it fail due to it being a bad port. Awesome?
Heaven forbid there can be more to a game then tweaking the fucking settings and modsupport.
18/04/2012 at 01:12 Xzi says:
Ooh, testy are we? I never said I found the game at its core to be bad. And I never said that I didn’t want to buy it originally. That’s part of the reason I’m so worked up about this. It could have been done so much better. Or rather, it could have just been given an average port and it still would have been a day one purchase for me. Average meaning custom keymapping, resolution, AA/AF options, texture quality options (low/med/high), and no GFWL. That’s it. Does anyone really believe this is asking too much? Hell, I’d be happy to forfeit the other “new” stuff for these things instead.
18/04/2012 at 01:13 kud13 says:
we want the product that’s worth it, since we are expected to pay money for it. And a whole bunch of people are acting that since it’s a Japanese console game, from a Japanese console-only developer/publisher, that came on PCs due to petition, we have to abandon our standards, and buy product we feel is inferior, otherwise we’ll hurt the publisher’s feelings.
18/04/2012 at 02:58 Runs With Foxes says:
That’s exactly what numerous people here are saying: that even if you aren’t happy with the quality, you should buy it anyway. You should reward weak ports … so we can get more weak ports.
18/04/2012 at 09:19 Beva says:
No, I think what they are saying is that you are getting a great, unique, fresh game and that you need to figure out if playing this great (I mean truly, really, fantastically great) game is worth enduring not having the best port ever. (Or at least I hope they do, I doubt any of the posters will be knocking on your door with pitchforks and credit card readers.)
So, basically this comes down to: great game vs pc port ideology.
Personally I can enjoy a game that works “well” without having all the bells and whistles, in fact I would take a great game with a rudimentary port over an average game that has the best port ever any day of the week. (I can also enjoy many older PC games that simply don’t have the benefit of the current tech because they are GREAT games).
So, yeah, from what I know the game will have settings to fiddle with (not many) which I think is fine, you WILL be able to play with Kb/M (which I wont be using since it’s clearly the worse option for Dark Souls, but it will be there), it wont have modsupport which I don’t think DS would benefit from hugely anyway and finally it will use GFWL which I find unfortunate (I’ve personally never had problems with it but I don’t doubt in those that have and losing your save etc. is unforgivable) , but can live with.
18/04/2012 at 05:13 Pointless Puppies says:
Then you really just speak for yourself.
The tone in the petition and the general community when it was going strong was “PLEASE PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP”. And lo and behold, against all reason, Namco actually LISTENED to an internet petition and is making/letting From Software make a PC port of a game they never designed to be on PC, working on a platform that they haven’t worked with in well over a decade.
Then people like you come in and whine and bitch because the game isn’t the paragon of pristine PC development. I hate being complacent about shitty PC ports as much as the next guy, but your fatal mistake is in assuming that just because it lacks extra PC care that it’s automatically “shit”. Did it ever occur to you that’s really the best From can do given the time and resources? Or is it just bitching for the sake of bitching? Given your fleeting interest in the game I’d wager it’s the latter
17/04/2012 at 22:47 Alextended says:
I see nothing wrong with a port like this outside the GFWL implementation (which to me has been much less of an issue than for most people in the past, I guess, as I’ve had no bad experiences with the likes of Super Street Fighter AE and Lost Planet 2 for example, single or multi player – granted LP2 could have had some better Steam-like online options but the game itself was kinda shit and there are other non GFWL games with lacking features too, so it’s not necessarily the cause, even if some emotional people blame it for everything). All they really need is stability and resolution options.
Not having anything more is more than understandable.
The game was made for a particular spec and a particular control scheme so they wouldn’t have made it scalable to different setups in order to have extensive graphics options that don’t screw up the visuals nor would they have changed the core gameplay into a mouse based Diablo clone when it’s anything but.
Just be glad you can play it in higher, stabler frame rate without tearing as well as after forcing whatever AA (and maybe AO) you want through your graphics card settings (if you have a beefy PC).
This is still a great thing, and maybe if it does well, which it deserves to on its own merits regardless of what emotional investment some people have put into loathing a bunch of 0s and 1s that happen to come as GFWL, the next From game will be made with PC (too) in mind to begin with and offer more.
Modding is also not a requirement, plenty PC only games don’t offer it and there are plenty games that allow mods so you can have your mods and your Dark Souls, just not your Dark Souls mods. Big deal.
As for the controls, get a grip, this game works best with a gamepad. It’s not Diablo II and it’s not Mount & Blade. Christ. Just as you use a joystick for your sims and a mouse for your FPS and an arcade stick for your fighting games, and a wheel for racing games, and so on, and so forth, a gamepad works best for some games, including this. Wanting a game retooled into being a wholly different game isn’t a standard, it’s proof you never wanted this game to begin with, and weren’t going to buy it no matter what. Pretending anything else is the issue is, well, pretentious. Much like those of you that will use any of these so called issues as an excuse to pirate and in turn enjoy a great product.
Bring it on. Dragon’s Dogma too, maybe Bethesda and other incompetent ARPG developers (that somehow manage to convince PC gamers on the basis of having mods or some options, despite the actual games being shit) will finally get their act together facing such competition and make that A part actually worthwhile with varied, deep, involving, challenging and above all fun systems for once.
18/04/2012 at 07:12 animlboogy says:
You’re so right on that last point. Barring Mount & Blade, it’s really Japan showing the world how to do competent ARPG combat right now. For all the grief Japanese games get lately (paging Phil Fish…), the stuff people pay less attention to in the West like Monster Hunter have been doing very cool things with combat that we just aren’t seeing in a lot of Western games at the moment.
18/04/2012 at 10:37 Alextended says:
Monster Hunter Tri was amazing.
Almost want to get a 3DS thingie just for the expandalone 3G and sequel 4.
17/04/2012 at 22:48 Elmokki says:
The controller thing I don’t really mind at all. Actually I by far prefer having the ability to use controller instead of using mouse and keyboard when the game suits for it. If I need precise mouse control like shooting (auto aim is pretty lame) or obviously any sorts of strategy games for UI then it’s keyboard and mouse.
If the game, however, doesn’t require me to target to very specific locations quick and often I by far prefer playing from a sofa watching the game on my 42″ television over sitting on a chair and watching the game on my 24″ monitor.
This depends on the game too, though. I doubt I could have been arsed to play Mass Effect 3 with a controller even if the pc port had supported it (and it by the way is absolutely ridiculous it doesn’t). Similiarly Skyrim was a game which felt better with a mouse for targeting, though if I had played a character with a two handed sword or maybe even a melee sneaker it might’ve been fun I suppose.
One game I wasn’t particularily happy with first was Kingdoms of Amalur. It felt just plain bad. Then I got myself a controller and the game felt fairly decent actually. Sure, it’s still very grindy. LA Noire’s action scenes are a bit horrible with gamepad and the aim helper is pretty much required (well, maybe not for someone who plays shooters often with a gamepad), but since the game is mostly not about shooting, it was quite enjoyable when played on a sofa watching tv too. Witcher 2 is also very decent played with a controller.
Honestly, keyboard and mouse is probably my favourite controller for many, but not all games (platformers at the very least and some games clearly intended for consoles in terms of controls like Amalur) if I had to play from a monitor. For many games controller however isn’t much worse or is equal to keyboard and mouse in terms of usability and being able to sit on a sofa and watching a big screen is seriously worth it.
That said if it runs crap on my pc because of being a console port, blah.
17/04/2012 at 22:53 kud13 says:
I signed the petition. I’ve never played a Souls game, since I don’t own a console, but I singned, since I believe that variety is good for the PC. I was happy to hear that it worked. I was considering purchasing.
Nonetheless, I’m still aware of the fact that I am the consumer in the situation, and I have a choice on whether to buy. And Namco still needs to show me sufficient value of their product. to convince me to spend my cash.
GaFWL is bad. I’ve had numerous bad experiences with it (the latest being with Batman: AC, so people can’t tell me that “it changed” or “they fixed it”), which serves to drive the value of the game down.
In addition, I’ve never had a need to use a gamepad, and I don’t own one. M+KB is the primary input mechanism for the PC, not making sure that control scheme for the primary input method is at least adequate, is a not a good way to suggest to me the product has value, either.
So, as such, I remain ambivalent. We will see when the game comes out, i suppose.
17/04/2012 at 23:03 Kleppy says:
God, gamers are possibly the whiniest people on earth. I honestly barely read any gaming websites or forums anymore because of this weird self important thing gamers tend to have going on. You begged for a port, got it, but oh no it’s not good enough because whatever.
There’s just this things lately of people putting down games for some esoteric reasons which have absolutely no effect on the actual game. Like, in 20+ years of gaming I never once played a game which suddenly became incredible because I could increase the resolution. If a game is good, it’s good. Also, get an Xbox 360 gamepad you weirdos ;)
17/04/2012 at 23:32 kud13 says:
nobody begged. By signing the petition we told Namco there’s a demand for their game on the PC.
just because I want a game on a PC, it doesn’t mean I magically lose all standards.
This isn’t a situation where I have nothing to play except for Dark Souls, and I’m desperate for Namco to give me a chance to buy the game. on the contrary, Namco is competing for my money with other developers/publishers. if they over me a more PC-centric experience, why should I pay for something that’s of a lower value to me, but has a higher asking price?
18/04/2012 at 00:04 Kleppy says:
But the game should still be just as good as it was on consoles, so I don’t see your point. It’s not like they’re giving you some crippled bare bones version of a successful game – you’re still getting the same experience people enjoyed on consoles (with more stuff added), so now you don’t have to buy an xbox or playstation to enjoy it.
18/04/2012 at 01:05 kud13 says:
given how 4 out of the 5 GaFWL games i’ve played each required 1-3 hours of my life to get them to work, when compared with the plug and play console experience, I’m already getting the inferior product, if they stick with GAFWL. We shall see how the control scheme works with M+KB.
18/04/2012 at 03:02 Kleppy says:
Yeah GFWL does suck.
17/04/2012 at 23:11 D3xter says:
Eh, I’ll buy it anyway… I signed a Petition (which kind of feels like making a Pledge on KickStarter and not coming through), but I still would heavily prefer no GFWL and at least basic pick of resolution and no FPS lock.
18/04/2012 at 00:08 reyke says:
as long as i can turn motion blurr and shadows off and it supports 1600×900 res im happy and buying
17/04/2012 at 23:15 catmorbid says:
“The interface won’t be redone, keyboard and mouse support will be minimal so gamepads are heavily recommended, and there won’t be new graphics settings.”
Fuck it. I’ve much better ways to spend my money than getting ass-raped. Just fuck it.
17/04/2012 at 23:57 pipman3000 says:
jesus christ just buy a windows xbox 360 gamepad you big baby
18/04/2012 at 00:15 catmorbid says:
Jesus christ buy yourself a pair.
I don’t want a 360 controller. Why would I want something inferior to what I have now? I don’t want a console. I don’t need to pay 70$ for a game, as I can get them very cheap from Steam. As I don’t need half-assed attempts to cash-in on my preferred platform. Namco-Bandai’s attempt on cash on a game that many PC users have found interested in is fucking pathetic and shows they’ve no respect for this platform. I have equal respect for them. NONE. NADA. ZILCH.
If you want to get fucked in the ass, go ahead i don’t mind; that’s what you’re going to get if they don’t change their act and you still buy it.
18/04/2012 at 00:31 Alextended says:
You’ve missed out on tons of great (also, PC only too) classics if all you ever use is a mouse and keyboard considering how many require alternative input devices to be truly enjoyed (and quite often to be played/playable at all), from joysticks to arcade sticks to wheels and, yes, gamepads. The mouse isn’t better for everything, it’s suited to certain control schemes just as those other devices are best for others, and as a gamepad is best for Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, and many other such games. You’re either ignorant or pretentious, both of which are just as bad in this case considering how fiercely you engaged in this convo.
18/04/2012 at 16:29 Max.I.Candy says:
catmorbid is doing the same over pretentious Elite PC gamer routine i used to do about 5 or 6 years ago, but then i grew up.
18/04/2012 at 00:05 Kleppy says:
Woah there, over react much?..
18/04/2012 at 05:16 Pointless Puppies says:
A game being designed for gamepads is ass rape. You heard it here first, folks.
18/04/2012 at 06:53 catmorbid says:
No, you all misunderstood: The ass rape is the part where the publisher wants to vomit out this half-assed port for a platform and pretend it’s “ok” and expect their customers to just smile and happily give them money. Had they just a little bit of respect for the platform and their potential customer, it’d be a whole different thing. I’m personally just fed up to my neck of this shit and wanted to voice it out, that’s all.
And no, I don’t think I’ve missed any good PC game because of lack of proper controller. I don’t much care for car games (agreed, better with an analog controller, preferably wheel), flight sims or side-scrolling fighting games (Steetfighter). Aside from those, everything can be played with mouse & keyboard. Dark Souls is just basically any 3rd person action game, so they should be controlled like one. Plenty of good examples of those in PC.
17/04/2012 at 23:32 Spacecraft says:
Well, will not buy. Good job.
17/04/2012 at 23:55 Zulthar says:
Considering that a petition started all of this, I’m willing to accept that it’s a fast port as long as it doesn’t cost too much. I hope enough sales will make them plan for a PC version earlier in future games.
And I don’t get all the whine about controls, I didn’t realize people WANTED to play Dark Souls without a gamepad.
17/04/2012 at 23:57 jwoozy says:
“Whatever you do, do it wrong. You get an A for effort.” – RPS commentators
18/04/2012 at 00:04 pipman3000 says:
“if you’re ot going to do it perfect in every way don’t do it at all” — the other rps commenters
“we’re just going to pirate it anyway” — the same commenters
18/04/2012 at 00:16 catmorbid says:
“Idiots get fucked in the ass anyway” -Also the same commenters
18/04/2012 at 00:26 LennyLeonardo says:
I really wish you’d stop saying “fucked in the ass”. God, now you made me say “fucked in the ass.”
… actually it’s kind of fun. But still inappropriate.
Edit: saying it, I mean. Doing it probably can be fun, and often not inappropriate. I’m not even sure what I’m talking about any more.
18/04/2012 at 00:32 catmorbid says:
:D
18/04/2012 at 00:30 Luciphear says:
I don’t mind the controller thing either. Hell, I wouldn’t want to play it without a gamepad in all honesty, much like Assassin’s Creed. It just doesn’t feel right without one. The graphical settings and such doesn’t bother me either. The game looks good, and I don’t really crave even better as for now. Maybe the next game they make but Dark Souls is fine as is. If there’s going to be modding support, well, let them handle it(textures and whatnot).
However, GFWL…now that’s an issue.
18/04/2012 at 00:52 ziusudra says:
Ill buy this right away, I played it yesterday at a friends house to see what it was all about, and severance memories came flooding in… and the ambiance were top notch, iam curious to try demon souls NOW.
18/04/2012 at 01:07 wuwul says:
As long as they add mouse look/turn support, keyboard/mouse buttons can be remapped with 3rd party tools, so not an issue.
Regarding GFWL, I just started a GFWL game, Batman: Arkham City, and it seems to work perfectly with a local profile without a license for the game and without a crack (just using a IDE mini image), so as long as they don’t somehow disallow local profiles it should be fine.
Maybe it’s worse for paying customers though, not sure.
18/04/2012 at 01:15 kud13 says:
it generally is. For paying customers, it requires a million updates to the client to work. and the updates are broken to hell and back
18/04/2012 at 02:36 soapgoat says:
namco rustled everyone’s jimmies, that said, all of these faggots need to quit bitching
18/04/2012 at 03:05 kud13 says:
because making a statement about our preferences in gaming (i.e, what we are willing to pay money for), to try to make publishers understand what the market wants is “bitching”.
Whereas, I suppose, listening to what the big publishers’ marketing departments tell us and saying “yes, that is exactly what we want! no options to customize how the game looks!! no options how to customize how the game plays!!! WE LOVE DRM!!!!, and we want it to be as intrusive as possible, because that’s the only way to make those EVIL PIRATES ™ recognize the error of their ways and see the light and learn the truth, as told to us by EA/ACTIVISION/UBISOFT/INSERTPUBLISHERHERE!!!!!” is what makes us “good customers”, who may even be so lucky as to get a port, (once in a while) that actually utilizes the PC’s primary input method, instead of an optional (and unnecessary) peripheral.
While we’re at it, why don’t we just all declare that PC gaming is no more and all buy consoles? I bet then the publishers will have total say opf what we can and can’t lay, and it will be even better, right?
18/04/2012 at 05:25 Pointless Puppies says:
So for you it’s really just about a developer giving a shit and all the intricacies of game development just materialize into game code in three seconds? Do you really think “caring” is how game development works?
From Software was given just a few months to do the port on short notice, they haven’t made a PC game in well over a decade, and they didn’t at all design this game to be played on anything but a console. Miyazaki knows full well (if you bothered to read the VG 24/7 article) all this and that the game won’t be a super polished port, but he’s trying to make the best of it anyway AND saddling more content on this version. Turning around and just assuming that it’s a “shitty” port because it doesn’t follow your unrealistic expectations of this project is a slap in the face to his team.
Context. You lack it. You need to look at the big picture and accept the fact that a less-than-stellar port doesn’t always mean a developer/publisher just didn’t “believe”. It’s not about upholding a persecution complex that “WAAAH NOBODY CARES ABOUT PC”. Yes, there’s plenty of lazy developers and publishers who half-ass ports, namely folks from EA and the like, but you need to look beyond the “what” and start looking at the “why”. Otherwise you’ll look like an irrational whiner.
18/04/2012 at 05:33 Gira says:
Why should anyone care about how hard a developer has to work for a port? Why is that relevant? You have no personal investment in this. From Software are not your friends. If they’re making a bad product, they’re making a bad product. Why do you people swallow this stuff? You are a paying, discerning customer. It is not your responsibility to come up with a bunch of excuses for the manufacturers of a product for which you have paid good money.
18/04/2012 at 06:09 Pointless Puppies says:
I’m not really saying that because I’m emotionally invested in From as a developer. I’m saying these are the reasons why you’re not getting the highest quality PC port ever.
You need to look beyond the “what” and see the “why”. Know that the game wasn’t designed at all for the PC. Know that the game has a small dev time for this port. Know that they’re adding extra content, so they’re directing resources to that as well. Know that From hasn’t done a PC game in a long time and Miyazaki is highly inexperienced with it. That will let you see what kind of product you expect to see, and you’ll be able to know the reasons as to why statements like “it’ll be a straight port” are made.
Or, you know, you could just throw your hands up and cry and whine and piss and moan because a port of a game made possible by a random internet petition doesn’t live up to your arbitrary standards. That way pesky facts aren’t getting in the way of those precious knee-jerk reactions.
18/04/2012 at 06:32 Doesn'tmeananything says:
That petition didn’t touch their hearts. They assessed the situation and came to the conclusion that it’d be profitable to make a PC port. They’re doing this purely for lucre, and the extra content is a clear indication of that.
As long as there are money in play, there can be no excuse for shoddiness.
18/04/2012 at 06:07 kud13 says:
funny how I never mentioned From Software in my post, ain’t it?
Reading Comprehension: you lack it. My post was about Namco/Bandai–i.e, the publisher. Who are in the exact same boat as EA/Activision/the rest. They are all competing for my money, by offering me various products, of various quality, for various price. From Software is irrelevant, since they are bound by the will of their publisher, in this particular case (if it were indie devs, that’s a different story. I’m usually also more lenient towards their mistakes, and they do tend (as a general rule, to try to cater to their audience more).
it’s not about “goodwill” or “thought”–it’s about business decisions. Namco is trying an allegedly new market for themselves, because the petition for Dark Souls showed them an existing demand. That doesn’t mean they should be excused from not doing their homework about the market they enter, and allow to get away with decisions about their product that are more cost-effective (use GaFWL, make a very “barebones-cosmetic” port), but make their products shoddier quality-wise, and expect to charge the same price that a well-polished, PC-adapted game would fetch. Does this seem harsh for Namco? possibly. however, letting them slide with a shoddy port and saying “well if we buy something that’s inferior, and show them that they can make money on PC with a cheaper, low-quality port, we should then hope that next time they’ll spend more money on porting other games!”. Newsflash: businesses don’t work like that. IF Namco sees Dark Souls do well with a cheaper port than they could’ve done to make more people happy, and they see that people still buy it, next time they port a game they will expect the exact same reception, for the exact same minimum amount of porting effort, because that’s the safer, more conservative estimate.
18/04/2012 at 06:15 Pointless Puppies says:
You seem to severely lack perspective, somehow expecting Bamco to take a financial risk on an internet petition and make a 100% perfect product right out of the gate on their first try. The phrase “Rome wasn’t built in a day” comes to mind.
Suffice to say that many other publishers that have been making PC versions of games for far longer than Bamco (that is, they’ve been doing them at all) have been doing for years exactly what Bamco is doing now: straight ports, GFWL, designed for gamepads. To demand absolute perfection their first time is to be idiotically unrealistic. Hell, they’re going already going above and beyond what many bigger publishers are doing by having From develop extra content for this version. Your application of “shoddy port” is also “shoddy” in itself. GFWL alone does not make a port “shoddy”. I know a lot of people love to paint GFWL as this curse forged by Lucifer himself, but in reality there isn’t any single thing that makes a shoddy port a shoddy port. Furthermore, there isn’t anything we know of Dark Souls that suggests that it’ll be one. You’re grabbing a few sentences and twisting them to mean “shoddy port” even though there really isn’t anything that was said that was that incriminating. You might’ve had a point if the interview included statements like “it WILL be hard capped at 30 FPS, will have worse textures than the console version, and will crash approximately 45 minutes”. THEN you can reasonably call it a shoddy port months before the game is actually released.
If this were From’s 5th PC port and Bamco’s 10th year in the PC platform business I’d agree with you. But it’s not, so no dice. Again, look at the “why”, not the “what”.
18/04/2012 at 06:45 kud13 says:
once again, you are assuming that i’m somehow slamming From. I don’t know how good the port will be. I never said I did. My position on this is currently “wait and see the reviews”, though if they stick with GaFWL, I WILL wait for a discount, because of consistently poor personal experience with the client.
My point was a response to a perception that somehow stating unwillingness to stop being an aware consumer is now interpreted as “baseless whining”.
As to your point about Bamco: they are a AAA console publisher. IF they are releasing a AAA game for PC, why is it so outlandish to expect the game to be of comparable quality to AAA games by other publishers? You’d think there would be a kind of a unified standard of what makes a game AAA to which publishers would have to adhere, to ensure that regardless what the person’s choice of platform is, they’d have a comparable experience, no? Or does that sound like “elitist entitlement”, too? Hell, I repeat my earlier point–no one dragged them, kicking and screaming to make a PC port. People expressed interest (note: they didn’t beg: they expressed interest), Bamco saw potential profit with a new market. If they want to represent themselves as a publisher of AAA titles for the PC, why shouldn’t they be obliged to stick to same standards as what the market would expect of other AAA titles released cross-platform? And if they don’t think the game will deliver same quality of experience on PC, then price it lower, which is what indie PC devs do.
Once again, I re-iterate, I DON’T KNOW if the game will be a poor port. I’ve been doing most of my gaming for the past 7 years off laptops with integrated videocards, so I really don’t care about graphical pretties. As i’ve never owned a console in my life, I don’t relish the prospect of having to learn how to use a gamepad, and I hope the game will be playable off KB+M, the way i’ve played other 3rd person action games, such as Legacy of Kain games. However, IF the reviews label it as “shoddy”, I will stand by my opinion that a publisher should not be cut any slack just because it’s their first foray into the market and they neglected to do their homework.
18/04/2012 at 03:05 Kleppy says:
I bet all those “NYAAAAH we’re getting screwed” folks are just a fucking joy to be around.
18/04/2012 at 03:04 DOLBYdigital says:
I’m just happy to be playing the game on PC! However if they allow any kind of Mods then holy batshit I will be jumping through the roof!! That would be the best news I’ve heard in awhile however I will keep my expectations low and just assume the game will be a straight port. Can’t wait to get this game, really hope it gets some support although I know many will not purchase because of GFWL.
Actually, thinking forward, I would be really happy if they began working on the 3rd game and supported PC from the beginning of development… That will only happen if the PC version gets some sales so please spread the word about this sweet game :)
18/04/2012 at 08:18 codename_bloodfist says:
I actually don’t care about this game at all. It hasn’t sparked my interest before and it doesn’t now. Needless to say, I wasn’t signing any petitions either. I do however wish this release to be successful, because maybe, just maybe, it’ll work as an incentive for other Japanese games to be released on the PC. Metal Gear Solid 2 was an awful port. It didn’t support mouse at all, making shooting people in the head rather awkward. I still enjoyed it a lot more than Metal Gear Solid 3 and 4, which I never got a chance to play because they were console only.
18/04/2012 at 03:16 wuwul says:
BTW, maybe they should release it without DRM at all, since the only thing DRM gets them is a chance of delaying the availability of a version not requiring payment.
However, everyone who absolutely wanted to get the game ASAP surely bought the console version already, and the others will get a cracked version after a few days regardless of whether they include DRM or not.
18/04/2012 at 04:11 cavalier says:
in before it sells poorly due to being a shitty port and they blame it on pirating.
18/04/2012 at 05:29 goto_dengo says:
I’ve rarely seen so many people completely miss the point.
Do you complain that the Venus de Milo has no arms, and avert your eyes? Do you skip Schnabel’s late Beethoven Sonatas because the recordings are imperfect (lots of hiss), in favor of a sterile modern recording, without his interpretive depth? It’s 1991, do you pass on an invite to watch your buddy’s bootleg VHS copy of Akira, because the resolution is crap, and the subtitles are in dodgy English?
Probably not. Rather, you appreciate each of these things for what they are, and don’t focus on what they aren’t, what they’re missing.
Dark Souls is a work of art, a work, even, of genius. Experience it in whatever form you can. If you refuse to play it for reasons of principle, congratulations, your discipline is commendable. But it’s your loss.
And those who have said gamepad is the ideal way to play this game are correct. There are plenty of situations in Dark Souls where dual analog is a necessity. And it also just so happens that because of the max camera move rate, the 30 fps maximum is a complete non-issue. Somehow, the camera, movement, and combat all fit together perfectly, and to make major changes (such as allowing the twitchiness of mouselook) would, I think, require they re-balance, re-tweak, the entire system.
18/04/2012 at 05:35 Gira says:
Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, chief. Meanwhile every other non-clueless discerning customer in the world is going to expect to pay money for something that functions properly.
The fact that you’ve just compared a hack’n'slash videogame (and a Japanese cartoon, for that matter) to the Venus de Milo really takes the cake, though.
18/04/2012 at 06:21 Pointless Puppies says:
I love how people just assume that the game won’t “function properly”. Where’s your hard evidence of this “objective” deduction, chief?
18/04/2012 at 09:21 Runs With Foxes says:
When’s the last time you saw a developer say months before release that they’re not trying very hard? Doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.
18/04/2012 at 05:46 Tubbins says:
It’s not a work of art, it’s a product. As a consumer, I’d expect the products I buy to be of good quality for the money I spend.
18/04/2012 at 08:44 LennyLeonardo says:
Might I suggest that it could be both a product and a work of art? Though let’s not dwell on that. I don’t see anything ridiculous in comparing it (or that japanese cartoon) to that noarms statue, other than that it might steer the thread into tiresome “are games art?” territory. Let’s avoid that please.
19/04/2012 at 15:42 Lowbrow says:
You do realize that the Venus de Milo was commissioned with arms right? It’s not like the patron was like “oh, you didn’t feel like putting arms on it? That’s cool.” If it had arrived in the condition it’s in now it would have been sent the fuck back.
18/04/2012 at 06:22 Enso says:
If anyone follows Namco Bandai in the slightest they would be prepared for the worst. I often think the only reason they fail recieve the same level of indignation as the likes of EA is because they don’t release anything as popular.
I feel sorry for From. They are a decent team who don’t deserve to have to deal with a publisher such as they.
19/04/2012 at 11:48 OptimisticLyricist says:
Even if they decide to include keyboard+mouse support it won’t be right as this system (Demon’s Souls actually) was designed only for the PS controller unlike games like Skyrim. Those who say the controls are bad have an issue playing any game with a controller, DS controls are great. The best DRM would be an online pass, the online components are great and innovative, there is a lot more to it than being invaded at the worst times. They could also include items that you can only get online like the Monk’s Head Collar in Demon’s Souls.
18/04/2012 at 06:53 Grey_Ghost says:
I’m still not sure why people made such a big deal about getting this ported to the PC. If your going to end up having to play it on a gamepad anyway, with zero PC centric enhancements… Why bother to port it in the first place?
Those that wanted it on the PC so badly probably already own it for their console, so do they really want to buy it again on a different platform just for a little extra content?
If a PC game requires a gamepad to play (using dual analog sticks for free-look & movement specifically), then there is very little chance I’ll ever buy it. The only thing I’ll be missing out on is frustration, and I’m alright with that.
18/04/2012 at 09:29 Harvey says:
Simple. I game exclusively on my computer. Believe it or not, there are others like me
19/04/2012 at 23:04 Grey_Ghost says:
So do I, but that doesn’t really explain why people wanted it so bad on PC.
18/04/2012 at 07:08 animlboogy says:
I’ll take what I can get with this game. This is one of the few ports where just having it on PC is enough for me. It just felt like such a longshot.
Going by the interviews, I’m hopeful that From’s next PC game will be much more what we’re used to. They’re a really cool developer, they even made a piece of software that let PC gamers make their own King’s Field adventures back in the day. They’re as upfront as I’ve ever seen a Japanese developer be. If they say they’re interested in mods and further PC options once they get their heads wrapped around the platform, they mean it.
18/04/2012 at 07:56 nootpingu86 says:
Large Japanese publishers neither like nor care about the PC as a platform save a few choice exceptions. I’m not surprised.
18/04/2012 at 08:09 codename_bloodfist says:
I’m perfectly fine with all of this. It would be -better- if they fixed these issues, but considering the rather exotic conditions this port is happening under to begin with, I find it hard to complain. It would be great if they had a proper PC team for their next game though.
18/04/2012 at 08:31 Rudel says:
That.. sucks. I already own it on my PS3 but I was really looking forward to buy it for PC with appropriate FPS, resolution and maybe mod support. :(
18/04/2012 at 09:09 Milky1985 says:
I can unfortantly see this being a shining example for the future…. of how the PC gaming market is full of unpleasable idiots.
Seriously guys and girls pick your fights, it was a fight enough to get it ON the pc, give them credit and get the game if you want it.
But DO NOT ignore the game “because it has GFWL” or “no mod support” (the mod support thing pepel have only compalined about since the deveoloper said it would not have it, and gave a good reason, people didn’t caer before then), all that is showing is that the market is entitled.
Those two fights are fights for future games (which will come out if AND ONLY IF this one sells well) so yes you can not be happy, and you can tell them that you don’t like x and y, but don’t do the “classic” pc gamer thing of “X so no purchase”.
18/04/2012 at 09:22 Prime says:
“Choose your battles” is exactly right. The number of people here complaining because they think they should get 100% of their internal wishlists ticked on the very first go is deeply worrying and makes me weep for the future.
Get the game on PC first. Be part of making the port a success. THEN we talk to them about making a PC version from the ground up for their next title, or at least considering a few of the things we PC gamers like. You know, like reasonable people do. To suddenly start vilifying people who in all likelihood don’t even understand what they’ve done wrong is just crazy and will do us more harm than good.
18/04/2012 at 11:00 Wedge says:
Seriously? Get over it. Stop trying to extrapolate that they’re going to release some broken buggy mess from them saying “it won’t have new graphics” and it’s GFWL. As long as you can still pick your resolution, it will look great on PC without anything “new”. And GFWL shouldn’t affect the game at all, considering how the multiplayer works. I know that’s an assumption, that y’know, it won’t break stuff like it has for some games, but there’s no reason it SHOULD. All the Capcom games I’ve played using GFWL have worked great anyways, so it’s certainly possible to do right.
And anyone complaining about mods is just stating how they’ve never played the games before, and need to sit in the corner and be quiet. Obviously they’re not possible while keeping the online component, which most fans regard as a core part of the experience. So no.
18/04/2012 at 11:12 frightlever says:
So Demon Souls had the online servers turned off after about three years, which is worse than even EA I think.
Microsoft looks set to kill GFWL once Windows 8 is established so legacy support is questionable. If GFWL worked like Xbox Live I’d be happy. That thing is great, so why does it take a minute to log me into GFWL EVERY SINGLE TIME?
18/04/2012 at 11:29 Milky1985 says:
EA sports games servers get turned off after a year and half/2 years for some of there annual francises from the look of things.
Also in froms defence, when you signed up the time when the servers would be running was in big letters (i think,i remember actually noticing the period they said they would support it, which was usual as it wasn’t hidden behind legalease)
They also extended it past that time because it was so successful.
IMO if your going to have a server based thing that you are going to turn off this is the better way to do it, at least tell people and give em a timeframe.
18/04/2012 at 11:35 AMonkey says:
I’m not sure why publishers can be so incompetent. But PC gamers are entitled right?
18/04/2012 at 14:33 Prime says:
It all hinges on your definition of “incompetent”, doesn’t it? If by incompetent you mean “Bringing the game to PC like we asked” then No. But if you mean “Bringing the game to PC but utterly failing to do things the way *I* want them to do it” then I suppose that’s a Yes.
My opinion: if you can’t be happy that you’re getting the game at all then, yes, you open yourself up to the charge of Entitlement. It is disappointing that they’ve chosen GFWL but there’s a slim hope we can get that changed. As for the rest of what they’ve said no-one had any right to expect/demand significant internal changes to a game they, as developers, had probably already moved on from. So the game that many people were excited to talk about is still coming to PC, just without the frills that we PC gamers like to see in our games. Is that really so bad? As long as it plays fine I’ll be happy to play it.
19/04/2012 at 15:49 Lowbrow says:
I’d say my thoughts on this are like my thoughts on IKEA. Find a cool looking desk. Notice it is made of particle-board and already fraying at the edges. Ok, I’ll pick it up if it’s cheap enough.