Dark Souls PC: Prepare To Sigh

By Alec Meer on April 17th, 2012 at 7:00 pm.

You want to try shouting at it, mate

VG247 has just run a slightly dispiriting dev interview/feature on the subject of brutal RPG Dark Souls’ community-demanded PC version and… well, while we remain the lightest of souls about the fact it’s happening at all, the news isn’t quite what we’d hoped for. As well as the exasperating, bewildering matter of it including Microsoft e’er-temperamental Games For Windows Live matchmaking/copy-protection, it sounds as if this will be a straight source without many, if any, PC-standard bells and whistles applied. Details, plus screens’n'vid, are below IF YOU DARE.

The interface won’t be redone, keyboard and mouse support will be minimal so gamepads are heavily recommended, and there won’t be new graphics settings. From Software producer Hidetaka Miyazaki is paraphrased as saying the game being “a straight port” was publisher Namco’s decision. There will be new content – enemies and areas and stuff like that – but while welcome I think we’d all agree we’d much prefer a well-optimised PC version rather than extra stuff. Here’s a peek at some of the new bosses:

Specifically, the new things are these:

New Bosses – Including Chimera of Tomb, and more
PVP Online Matchmaking System – Quick matching for co‐op or PVP
New Areas – Including Oolacile Tomb, Old Ruins and more
New Enemies – Including Abyss Guard, Chained Prisoner and more
New NPCs – Including Hawkeye Gough and more
New Weapons and Armor – Equip some from the new bosses, enemies, and NPCs

The smart money would bet the new content is due for the console versions down the line, which might be why it was made at all, but no official statement on that as yet.

So, mixed feelings in Castle Shotgun really. It’s fantastic to see a publisher sit up and take note of PC gamers’ requests and interest, but now there’s this great fear that the results won’t be quite what we meant.

More positively, it sounds like there might be some modding support. If that happens, I’m anticipating mods to make it easier and mods to make it even harder in equal measure. Plus a few ponies.

On the matter of GFWL, just shy of 20,000 people have now signed a new petition asking for the bloated horror’s removal from the PC version. Namco told VG247 that GFWL’s inclusion was “still to be decided”, so perhaps there is yet hope they’ll opt for something else.

The game’s out on August 24.

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355 Comments »

  1. Monkeh says:

    Why aren’t those screens click-able (aka enlargeable)?

  2. Brun says:

    Nacom told VG247 that GFWL’s inclusion was “still to be decided”

    So I guess there is some hope.

    • Navagon says:

      This is the company that sued CD Projekt for removing Witcher 2 DRM even though it completely broke the game. They also sued them for not enforcing regional pricing. Hope? Really?

      • Brun says:

        Who, Namco? Was Namco even involved in The Witcher 2?

        If you mean GFWL (Microsoft), they can’t sue Namco for using someone else’s DRM product instead of theirs, especially if the issue of its inclusion is still TBD (implying that Namco has not signed a contract for its use).

        • Delusibeta says:

          Yes: they published the vanilla version worldwide, and are the western European publishers of the Enhanced Edition. So yes, Namco has quite a lot to do with The Witcher 2.

        • Phantoon says:

          There’s a reason we call them Scamco, brother.

    • alundra says:

      Yeah, it’s a good sign, let’s not get PC gamer bitchy, a publisher release a game upon request, and if to that they hear another request in a row and change the drm method, upon request, we all should purchase massively, make a precedent for other publishers to see that were we are heard there’s money to be made.

      • jwoozy says:

        The publisher isn’t “giving the fans what they want” or some bullshit like that. They smell money just like everyone else in the industry. The problem is that Namco is another in an endless parade of arrogant, bureaucratic, risk-averse publishers who are well out of their depth in the choppy, pirate-infested waters of PC gaming.

        This is a niche game with a Japanese publisher, shitty DRM, no kb/m support, no graphical overhaul and a controversial multiplayer. Dark Souls PC will sink like a stone.

        • Pointless Puppies says:

          Great, then you have nothing to worry about with your amazing powers of perception.

          While you’re at it, let me know next week’s lottery numbers since you seem to know for certain how everything will play out in the future.

        • f1x says:

          Even tho you are right,
          still supporting the game its important

          of course there should’ve been a PC version right from the start, but Namco is quite focused on console market sadly, and quite close minded, plus they have not had the best time regarding sales lately

          The problem is the message the PC community sends, sometimes its coherent about petitions and such and sometimes it just looks like its impossible to please it

        • alundra says:

          Yeah, you missed the big *IF*.

          If they can comply to the two requests, porting *and* non (or not shitty) drm, I will buy, I don’t care if they include a software console emulator to run the game.

  3. mouton says:

    What a surprise.

    The thing that is slightly annoying is, they already know this will sell. They know there is a huge demand. And yet they refuse to make any reasonable porting effort. Does proper PC porting require workstations made of gold, perhaps?

    • mckertis says:

      “And yet they refuse to make any reasonable porting effort.”

      Name ONE Japanese developer who properly ported their product on PC. It just doesnt happen.

      • Alexander Norris says:

        Capcom with its MTFramework games!

        (That was a trick answer, as MTFramework is a PC engine which is then ported to consoles, so technically none of the MTFramework PC games are ports.)

      • Fiatil says:

        Devil May Cry 4 was a pretty awesome port. Tons of graphics settings and a benchmarking tool for DX9 and 10, very well optimized for the time too. I’m sure it even supported keyboard and mouse if you were crazy enough to try that.

        • Feriluce says:

          I bought DMC4 before I owned a gamepad, and that was quite the mistake. Apparantly whoever ported this game have not heard of this fancy thing called a “mouse”, so the controls was 100% keyboard based, that is including the camera. Basically 100% waste of money to buy on the pc if you dont happen to own a controller.

          • Wedge says:

            Trying to play a DMC game with a mouse is a waste of time anyways. You want to play Street Fighter IV with your mouse next too?

          • DrGonzo says:

            Not a mouse no, but SF is better with a keyboard than with a standard 360 or ps3 pad. The nature of the game requires precise and reliable digital inputs which those pads just can’t provide. Of course the ideal controller is an arcade stick or a decent pad.

    • Palehorse says:

      This response to minimal PC porting smacks of wanting your cake and eating it too.

      • Jimbo says:

        I don’t think you understand that saying.

        • Palehorse says:

          Wiki equates the saying with ‘having the best of both worlds’. In this case having a PC release and having it ported well too.

          Do you have a better proverb for this situation? Something pithier? :P

          • Phantoon says:

            Well, it came across as a bit flippant.

            And really, we should be able to demand ports that aren’t terrible!

          • Memphis-Ahn says:

            I believe the word thrown around these days is “entitlement”

          • Gira says:

            Haha, how is it “entitlement” to expect a product you have to pay for to work properly? If you bought a kettle made in Japan (but sold at your local), would you be okay with it breaking down or behaving erratically because, hey, it was made in a DIFFERENT COUNTRY with a DIFFERENT CLIMATE and A DIFFERENT USER EXPERIENCE IN MIND? No, you’d get a refund.

      • fish99 says:

        Seriously, you think it’s unreasonable to ask for the game to be brought to PC and for them to put in the effort to make it work well on PC? Isn’t it self defeating to bring a game to PC if you’re admitting before you even start that you’re making a sloppy port? That just gives people an excuse to avoid or even pirate it.

        As a minimum standard, every game released should work well on the platforms it’s sold on.

        • Palehorse says:

          Namco would be paying for any PC improvements which will cut into their sales. I’m not in the know on the numbers involved for this kind of work, but it would cut into the roughly $500k in sales they can expect to safely generate. ($50 x 100,000 signatures on the petition) (500K seems like a lot, no wonder that petition worked)

          From Software has only done one PC port, Ninja Blade. Reports suggest it wasn’t that great. (I can’t say first hand) So it looks like they don’t have the talent on hand to even do a PC port justice. That means that they either do another crappy port and piss the fans off even more, OR they farm it out to a third party to do it. (or they port it straight, save money, and avoid the whole porting issue, while slightly annoying PC buyers)

          The more work they do on the PC port means the game gets pushed back, potentially reducing their sales as PC buyers crumble and get it on console AND the price point drops as it becomes an ‘aged’ title. (My suggested $50 a copy may already be too high)

          I would think this is what went through the minds of the suits at Namco. I really think the fact it’s coming at all is pure gravy for PC users.

          Let me know if you have figures on what a proper PC port would cost and/or you think I’m out to lunch.

          • GTRichey says:

            I don’t have any numbers for you but your suggestion that taking time to port properly would hurt the sales is the opposite of what would happen. This news greatly reduces the odds of me bothering with this for PC. They’re basically telling us that we have nothing to gain by doing so, so people like myself will end up buying this for a console since that allows us the comfort of our couch and allows us to obtain the game sooner. The sad thing is Namco will then blame poor PC sales on lack of interest and it will severely hurt any impact petitions like the one that brought this about in the first place may have on bringing awesome games to PC at all. Yes it makes business sense to save the money, but you’ve got to give people a reason to see your product as valuable (especially so far removed from it’s initial release). Sloppy ports are bad for everyone.

          • Jimbo says:

            I don’t think you understand multiplication either ;)

          • fish99 says:

            You know what IS going to cut into their sales? Doing a sloppy port, and even worse telling people months in advance it’s going to be a sloppy port.

            The stuff we’re talking about here – decent mouse/keyboard support, some graphics options – does not take a lot of time or cost a lot of money.

        • Pointless Puppies says:

          It’s pretty damn presumptuous to just assume that not being an excellent PC port automatically means there’s no effort being put into this.

          I really don’t know what you’re expecting from a developer who hasn’t done a PC game in well over a decade porting a game they didn’t design for the PC in a few months. You’re essentially bitching at them that they’re not achieving the impossible, which is really quite silly.

          Next time Namco just won’t listen to 93,000+ signature petitions, then you won’t feel personally offended that the port isn’t pristine, and all will be well in PC land of games that didn’t get ported because it wouldn’t have lived up to people’s ridiculous expectations. Hooray.

          • Unaco says:

            Making a decent PC Port is not the impossible. We’re not asking them to do the impossible. Our expectations are not ridiculous. You act as if we’re asking for a completely new and redesigned game… we’re not. Give us graphics options (PCs are not homogeneous, many different hardware configurations, being able to tweak graphics to improve performance is part of PC gaming)… Give us proper M/KB support with the ability to rebind keys… give us an interface that makes use of the Mouse.

            Hardly the impossible. Hardly asking for them to move mountains.

          • fish99 says:

            Firstly I can tell how much effort is being put into it by the fact that it’s announced this week and it’s launching in August, in *4 months time*, and by the fact that Namco keep saying over and over that they’re doing it as quick and cheap as they possibly can.

            Secondly as I’ve already said they’re shooting themselves in the foot by making the game on PC but then seemingly going out of their way to make a bad version, by using GFWL, by not supporting the default PC controls properly, and by not providing decent graphics options. It’s like releasing a game on 360 that doesn’t properly support the gamepad.

            Finally, why is making a decent PC port somehow ‘impossible’? Are you claiming these guys are incompetent or something? It doesn’t take a lot of time or expertise to properly support a mouse, or to add some graphics settings. Little indie games made by 1 guy can do it, so surely From can manage it.

    • TsunamiWombat says:

      They don’t know it will sell, which is the problem. Because 1. This is a Japanese publisher, and the Japanese industry has proven itself time and again to be completly out of touch with consoles, let alone PC’s which even most of the American developers are out of touch with. Keiji Inafune (Megaman Creator and former Capcom Guru Designer) has been talking alot about this lately:

      -
      “Right now, Japan believes that other Asian games, and American games, aren’t as good as theirs,” he continued. “But across the world, American games are the best-selling and considered the most fun. But Japan’s gamers and game creators still won’t accept this. This is why Japan can’t win.”
      -

      Namco is, in it’s mind, taking a huge gamble with their money even porting it. And since this is a porting matter, how it gets done is entirely up to publisher Namco and is out of the Dev’s hands.

      And 2 the PC gaming market as we know it is almost non-existant in Japan, which feeds into #1

      • jwoozy says:

        The thing is, Japanese games still are pretty great and still enjoy a number of advantages over their Western counterparts. There’s no shortage of technological understanding, aesthetic sensibility or artistic mastery in Japanese gaming and I get a little queasy at the level of nationalism that sometimes creeps into these debates about East vs. West.

        What happened to Japanese gaming is that one of the largest and toughest multinationals in software made a deliberate effort to destroy the industry and rebuild it in their image, and largely succeeded. That Japanese developers have failed to adapt is their own fault, but this idea that there’s some kind of cultural defect at the center of this failure just reeks of white supremacy.

        Besides which, the fact that Gears of War and Call of Duty are mainstream hits while Dark Souls and Monster Hunter are considered “niche” says absolutely nothing good about Western developers or their audiences.

  4. CaLe says:

    The controller thing isn’t an issue. Too bad about the other stuff.

    • Memphis-Ahn says:

      Pretty much, no-one has the right to call themselves a gamer if they don’t own a controller anyways.
      I really don’t see any other issues apart from GfWL though, it’s not as though “straight port” means “unoptimised piece of crap”.

      • Premium User Badge

        jrodman says:

        Well good thing the word ‘gamer’ is so poisoned already that heaping more on it isn’t so painful.

      • DrGonzo says:

        What does that even mean? My dad doesn’t own a controller and he was gaming decades before I was even born, he’s a proper hardcore gamer mostly playing Hearts of Iron or some other ultra boring turn based game. He’s a gamer if I ever saw one.

        ‘It’s better with a pad’ isn’t an excuse. It may be true, although in this case I very much doubt it having played the 360 version, but it’s on pc and you have no excuse not to port the controls over for those who want it.

        Some people simply cannot use or get used to pads no matter how hard they try, and this is a 3rd person action game, much like 1st person games they are far better with a mouse.

        Having tried the 360 version though this game also needs a massive UI overhaul as that was hideous on the Xbox. Also needs controls sorted as they felt very loose, unreliable and I kept clipping through walls and seeing the same awkward animations over and over.

    • MikoSquiz says:

      The controller thing isn’t really an issue for me since it’s a game designed for a gamepad anyway. Complaining that it doesn’t work so good with keyboard and mouse seems like complaining that a racing game doesn’t work so good with a keyboard and mouse, or Starcraft 2 is tricky with a gamepad.

      I also could not for the life of me manage to give two shits about graphics settings, unless it won’t run on my hoary old card. (I like to buy a new one roughly every 4-5 years.) Mouse support for menus would be preferred, but I can live without it.

      And while GFWL does make me unhappyface, it doesn’t by itself constitute a dealbreaker. This is still an on-the-day buy for me.

      • DrGonzo says:

        No it’s not at all. It’s more like saying that Arkham Asylum works badly with a mouse and keyboard. Which is doesn’t by the way, it’s arguably better with a mouse and keyboard. Similar genres, and it shows that there is no reason this game wouldn’t play nicely with mouse and keyboard controls. Stop defending their laziness for gods sake.

  5. Shooop says:

    The only thing people should be worried about is the GFWL bit. It’s understandable what started as a console game and later jumped to PC doesn’t have all the bells and whistles, but GFWL is downright radioactive for too many people.

    Mod support would be just brilliant though.

    • e82 says:

      I dunno, I don’t think Dark Souls needs mod support, and that it could possibly be even detrimental. A large part of the enjoyment of the online portions requires there to be some integrity to the characters. Hacking of save files is rampant enough on the 360 – it would become even harder to control on the PC.

      How can you tell if some phantom has hacked their save file, or simply using a mod that added sword of uber-asswhopping? Mod ability where appropriate is great and all – I just find it questionable in games that have competitive PvP environments.

      • Baresark says:

        You are confused…. modding a game and cheating with a hacked save file are two completely different things. Modding does not typically involved improving the player character. It would include things like new areas to play in, new enemies, maybe a few new items, a boss here and there… not hacking the save file. Please, don’t make assumptions that because people cheat, everyone cheats. What most people who are against this don’t understand is that it can enhance the longevity of a game by potentially infinite percent. It’s why ridiculous numbers of people still play Diablo 2. It’s why Skyrim is constantly in the news, months after release.

        • aDemandingPersona says:

          If you can add “new areas to play in, new enemies, maybe a few new items, a boss here and there” then I can guarantee unbalancing.. Some kid adding the awesome sword of badassery to his custom made area. maybe even a cleverly planned out area for grinding xp.

        • Pointless Puppies says:

          You’re completely ignoring the large aspect of the game that is online. How exactly do you expect the game’s online to work if people can make mods about anything they want Skyrim-style? And keep in mind the online wasn’t at all designed to handle mods in the first place.

    • Smarag says:

      No that’s not acceptable. Tolerable for a game as good as Dark Souls, but it’s not fucking acceptable. Especially if you don’t make proper mod support possible.

      • Khemm says:

        There’s a shitload of PC only games which have ZERO mod support, so let’s stop acting as if it’s a standard feature.

        • TsunamiWombat says:

          I don’t really see Dark Souls as a mod friendly game anyway, it’s like a big dumb playground like Skyrim, it has a much tighter focus and balance doesn’t it?

          PS: Not dissing Skyrim or mods, I got 100+, both in hours logged and active mods THANKS STEAM WORKSHOP. Just saying you really shouldn’t expect mod support for certain games, especially considering how complex games have gotten in the past decade.

        • Smarag says:

          Which is why people say that consoles and the console audience is ruining gaming.

          • Pointless Puppies says:

            And you’re not incorrect in that statement, Smarag, but why the hell take it out on a project like this? Take it out on someone like Bioware who definitely DO have the time and resources to give extensive mod support to their games (*coughMassEffectcough*) but choose not to simply because fuck it.

      • theleif says:

        Very few PC games are released with any mod support at all. Do not confuse mod support (Skyrim, NWN, Minecraft, Source engine games) with modable. Most games are modable, very few has mod support.

  6. Xzi says:

    While it’s (almost) understandable for them not to include a lot of new graphics options, the decision to not re-do the interface and bindings to fully support mouse/keyboard is dumb as hell. I played a bit of Dark Souls on the 360, and it seems to me that a mouse/keyboard version of the control scheme should have been done FIRST. It hardly functions on a gamepad as-is. Memorizing the button combinations for certain things is overly-convoluted and completely unnatural in regards to what we’ve come to expect from other console RPGs.

    They had the chance to make Dark Souls PC the definitive version and prove that they still care about their customers enough to make the wait worth it, but I suppose going the completely opposite direction and screwing PC gamers over just to later blame poor sales on piracy and subsequently never release another game on the PC again makes sense too…

    With the initial news of Dark Souls arriving on the PC, I immediately thought that it would be a day one purchase for me. Now there’s no way I’m touching this thing until it falls into the bargain bin. Or if they price it new at $20, then maybe. However, I doubt Namco/Bandai is going to be that reasonable, considering their conduct up to this point.

    • Brun says:

      It was my understanding that some of the mechanics basically required the analog sticks whose function can’t really be simulated elegantly with KBM.

      • Lobotomist says:

        I hate playing 3D games with controller.
        But if that is price for playing the game on PC, ill bite.

      • Xzi says:

        It’s been done in every other port up to this point. The simple solution is to let people customize their own bindings.

      • Baresark says:

        This is untrue. The necessity for analog movement is a hugel fallacy that is all over this thread. It’s just a red herring trying to detract from the subject at hand.

        • LennyLeonardo says:

          Actually, I found analogue movement pretty essential. But then I do have a huge phallus.
          Pardon me? Oh, sorry.

    • Premium User Badge

      gnodab says:

      To be fair it is not like Namco/Bandai is some traditionally EPIC PC-Dev, who betrayed us late on for the toy boxes. I mean it a Japanese console/toy company! They don’t even have a PC market over there!
      I remember many of their classic, but from my NES/SNES days…
      So I don’t get the whole betrayal thing. And what long wait? The game was never intended for PC. The only reason it is coming out is because they were nice enough to listen to PC-Gamers (which are not, by any stretch of the imagination, their target audience) and now we get it in a matter of months.
      And what baffles my mind are you seriously suggesting that a game developed solely for consoles should have been developed with keyboard and mouse FIRST? wtf?!? I feel like I am missing something.

      To stop flaming, of course I would also prefer a version of the game optimized for the PC. But this is basically a present to us. Well, ok it is a test trial. Still we should take it as it is and realize that Namco/Bandai are taking a big step towards us and they really didn’t need to. And this has nothing to do with the PC being a dead platform, but with it not being their platform. and there really is no way of them to assure that this will be an economically sound endeavor.

      TL;DR
      shut up be happy

      • Xzi says:

        I would prefer if you would shut up and be angry with me instead. It’s basically like one of the later comments said: if you’re going to do something, you might as well do it right.

        If the only significant change in the PC version of the game is higher framerates, then there really isn’t any point in porting it at all. Which might as well be the case for all the difference it makes, because given their handling of the situation, Dark Souls WILL crash and fail on the PC. After which, we’ll never see another Namco Bandai game on the PC again. Which, to reiterate another point, is absolutely fine with me if this is the quality of release we can expect from them. Never-ending cycle of disappointment in a way, you see.

        • catmorbid says:

          Yep. Even though their engine (whatever is used) does not have native mouse support, it will not be that hard to code it in for a Professional Fucking Programmer (basically any guy with a few years’ experience could do it in a week at MOST) and some more time for keymapping (come on this is so basic even QBasic is crying!) and… um… wait what’s left. Some graphical stuff, well that takes time if your engine is shit to begin with, but shouldn’t really be that big of a problem for Professional Fucking Coders with a few months in their hands. I’ll stop now.

      • Gira says:

        this is basically a present to us

        Oh, man, you really are clueless.

    • Max.I.Candy says:

      “It hardly functions on a gamepad as-is”

      wtf are you going on about?

      • derbefrier says:

        you guys need to quit acting like bad console ports are a new thing. bad console pots have been around as long as there have been consoles and pcs.this isnt some new phenomenon. i played many a bad console port back in the day nothings really changed except your perceptions. i’ll just be happy if it runs well i have a controller because i am a gamer and all gamers should already have a controller so there really should be no issue here. this stupid ass trend of hating everything that doesn’t come with every single PC specific feature ever made needs to stop. you sound like a bunch of spoiled ass children. the game will be perfectly enjoyable and playable as it is. its your fault if you purposely gimp yourself by not using the control method the game was designed around. Its a console port plain and simple but their are plenty of console ports that are perfectly fine and a blast to play.

    • thebigJ_A says:

      Dark Souls doesn’t have button combos.

      Or is “hit button to swing sword” too convoluted for you?

      DS has nearly perfect controls on a gamepad, idk what game you played.

  7. Freud says:

    I used to get annoyed by these things, but even though I’m not a big fan of GFWL and more or less lazy ports I have gotten through GTA4, Arkham Asylum, Bulletstorm and other games without it robbing too much of my enjoyment.

    I’d rather them make a flawless port to PC but if that’s not happening, I’m sure I’ll get value for my money if the gameplay is as good as reported.

  8. Baresark says:

    I just don’t understand. The should have left out the new bosses and simply made the game a proper port. They just want this to fail.

    • pkt-zer0 says:

      The extra content is going to consoles as DLC anyway, so they’re not going to leave that out.
      As for a lazy port, it seems it’s more like the publisher wanting to spend as little as possible on this, not the devs. So, maybe we’ll have better luck with Dark Souls 2 PC, eventually.

    • vatara says:

      Nothing beats the self-fulfilling prophecy of doing a lazy port that leads to poor sales that leads to justifying doing lazy ports (or no ports).

  9. Lobotomist says:

    This is horrible news.

    Not only that i dont want GWFL on my computer, but many GWFL games simply exclude the region i am in (an many more) basically locking us from any kind of purchase.

    So its big NO , i hope they change their mind.

    If they have to, they can always use steam instead of GWFL

  10. Angry Engy says:

    To be honest, I think I’d rather have extra content than a slightly shinier game.

    • Baresark says:

      extra shiny has nothing to do with it. They are releasing the game in such a way that it’s not actually worth purchasing it on the PC. They are forcing controller use, they are having zero graphic options. They aren’t adapting the UI to the PC. This was an instant buy, but now it’s a wait and see. It hurts them the most.

      • Pointless Puppies says:

        Absolutely none of which are new or an aberration at this point.

        You need to think of the extremely likely possibility that the issues you’re discussing is a matter of time, effort, and PC development of experience. Those issues aren’t present just because they’re lazy fucks, they’re present because this is a port of a game that wasn’t intended for PC in a small time frame. You can’t expect the game to be a perfect PC port given the circumstances.

  11. Unaco says:

    Sigh.

  12. Stevostin says:

    Gamepad ? Yeah sure. K thx bye.

    • Khemm says:

      Are you one of those folks who play flying sims with keyboard and mouse and refuse to plug in a joystick?
      Don’t be ridiculous.

      • Mordsung says:

        Khemm,

        For a moment, think about this situation in another light. Imagine a game got ported from PC to consoles with no proper controller support and a UI built for mouse and keyboard.

        They’d be pretty pissed about it.

        It’s no different when it’s done to us.

        We gain nothing from being quiet and graciously accepting that they ported the game to our platform.

        We gain everything from being vocal about our complaints.

        Nothing bad is going to come from voicing discontent.

        • Khemm says:

          Good point, but we don’t know ANYTHING about keyboard and mouse controls at this point. They might as well be fine.

      • MarcusCardiff says:

        The only thing ridiculous (apart from expecting PC gamers to use a gamepad for an RPG) is you comparing a flying game to an RPG like they’re even the tiniest bit similar.
        Console fanboys, they even infest PC forums.

        • Mordsung says:

          Not even to mention that some people do prefer a keyboard for flightsims.

          I’m fairly confident I could outfly most people using a joystick in a BF2 blackhawk, and I use only the keyboard.

          Analogue control, while technically superior in many cases, is not massively superior to good ol’ “tapping”.

          Once you get good enough you even start remembering turns in a racing sim as “4 left taps” or “3 right taps, two break taps”

          Of course, I also use a thumb-trackball mouse for gaming, so I am an oddity.

          • Sheng-ji says:

            Say what you like about how great mouse and keyboard is, it is inferior for games which need analogue controls. Like Dark Souls. PC gamers since the 70′s have matched specialist controls to the games and modern day games are no different. Sure, the simplistic need to “always run” works just fine in FPS’s etc but games with slightly more nuance to them, well tapping just doesn’t cut the mustard.

            So, I’ll take you up on your offer of tapping vs analogue, only I get to choose the game. Codemasters F1 2011 please.

          • suibhne says:

            @Sheng-ji: trad PC controls actually offer far superior analog controls. It’s called a “mouse,” and it’s a fantastically more precise analog controller than any gamepad ever made. The problem is that it’s only one, not two analog controllers as on a gamepad. For first-person perspective or an over-the-shoulder camera, mouse/keyboard is always superior. I guess the problem in this case is that Dark Souls uses a lot of off-angle cameras?

        • Khemm says:

          A console fanboy? OK, you’re officially nuts or a troll.
          Don’t play Gothic, you’ll immediately call it a console port because of a very unique keyboard&mouse control scheme unlike anything used in other action-RPGs.
          Have you even played Dark Souls for a second? Do you realize why they recommend a gamepad? By the way, why are you assuming that k&m controls will be broken?

          • Reapy says:

            Agreed. The whole game is designed around using a controller, I honestly can’t think of a smooth way to make a keyboard and mouse feel right. Pretty much any game that has ‘direct movement’, (you push left and the char rotates immediately to that facing and goes left), won’t feel right with a keyboard, mostly because you will need headings between A and W that aren’t 45 degrees…especially with dark souls.. you need to target your rolls and such to get around behind things.

            I think as long as the framerate is steady, and the networking is improved for speedier matches, and GFWL heads another direction, it is still going to be worth checking out.

          • Runs With Foxes says:

            The whole game is designed around using a controller

            There is no reason why Dark Souls wouldn’t work fine with a mouse and keyboard. You run around and hit things. There are many hack and slash games on PC that work fine with mouse and keyboard.

            I honestly can’t think of a smooth way to make a keyboard and mouse feel right. Pretty much any game that has ‘direct movement’, (you push left and the char rotates immediately to that facing and goes left), won’t feel right with a keyboard, mostly because you will need headings between A and W that aren’t 45 degrees…especially with dark souls.. you need to target your rolls and such to get around behind things.

            Do you own a mouse? This is exactly what mouse look is for, and it gives much finer, faster and more responsive control than analog sticks do. What’s wrong with you?

          • thebigJ_A says:

            No, no, see, in Dark Souls it is extremely important to move in very precise directions OTHER THAN the one your camera is looking in. That’s why the second analogue stick is so important.

            A mouse is superior at aiming, no one denies that. It’s just that, in this game, aiming isn’t that important, but what direction, and how fast, your character moves is life and death. Only being able to choose between walk and run will get you killed over and over. Only being able to move in the cardinal directions relative to where your camera is locked onto will get you killed over and over.

            In a game in which it’s hard enough to not get killed over and over already, this is a handicap.

            Then there’s the way the controls were designed. The controller is essentially mapped to your character’s body. Things you put in your left arm (shields, but also anything else) are mapped to the left trigger and left bumper, the same for the right. The positional and physical nature of the combat is tied around this system very tightly.

          • Runs With Foxes says:

            I own Dark Souls so I know how it plays. There’s no reason why it couldn’t work fine with mouse and keyboard if they put the effort in.

        • Nihilexistentialist says:

          I’m Sorry From Software. You deserve better than Namco-Bandai.

          • TwelveShots says:

            actually they had a better but smaller publisher originally for demon souls this games predecessor ATLUS i guess they switched for monetary reasons.

        • Fiatil says:

          Some games just control better with controllers, that doesn’t make you a console fanboy. I think people are crazy for trying to play an FPS or RTS with a controller just like you’re kind of crazy for trying to play a fighting game or an action RPG of this type with a keyboard and mouse. Most RPGs can and do work better with a keyboard and mouse, but Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls just wouldn’t.

          Graphics customization support is another thing, way to suck Namco.

      • Johnny Lizard says:

        I agree with Khemm.

        • LennyLeonardo says:

          And my axe. Although Filatil’s post is probably the most rational in this whole discussion.

    • Eddy9000 says:

      I also agree with Khemm, (and also with Mordsung, I’ll be the first person to say that people should say so if they aren’t happy)

      What is the strange fetish PC gamers have for mouse & keyboard? I can understand if the game benefits from it a la TF2, but why shoehorn a control system in where it doesn’t suit the gameplay? I plugged in a gamepad for Skyrim and haven’t looked back. And comparing it to console users being sold a game that requires a mouse and keyboard is just silly.

      Not supporting higher resolutions is the kick in the bojangles fo me.

      • trjp says:

        It’s an RPG, arguably they had to cram the controls into the pad in the first place (not having any other choice on PS3 or XBOX) – but having done that, it’s not like a keyboard gains you much (they won’t put in new stuff just for keyboard users).

        That said there are people who don’t own a pad – they are idiots and have no right reading a gaming forum but they’re out there and I imagine they’ll whine a LOT when they discover the game can’t have complex mappable controls and customisation.

        Hey ho – 360 version just pissed-me-off anyway so it’s no loss here :)

      • Baresark says:

        The thing is this, why limit the controls to one thing. They are shoehorning the controls, not people who like Mouse+KB. I don’t honestly understand why you would play Skyrim like that, but that is your thing. That comparison is very apt. The majority of PC gamers prefer M+KB. Why release a game that doesn’t support them most common control type of a platform I’ll compare it this way, it’s like releasing a game on PS3 but you’re supposed to use a Nintendo controller for it. Which is ridiculous.

      • UncleLou says:

        I also agree with Khemm. One of the reasons why DS is such a great game are the melee controls. And one of the reasons the controls are so good is because the game has blatantly been designed with game pads in mind from the start. The triggers/shoulder buttons basically simulate your sword and shield arms. First problem with the mouse will be that they either have to make the characters all left-handed (which might have effects on the level design – it’s no coincidence that staircases in medieval castles all circle up clockwise), make you use the RMB for your weapon (nasty), or let you use the LMB for your right arm and the RMB for your left arm.

        And that’s just the beginning, before we even talk about different attacks/blocks you can do with your left and right arms in the game.

        One of the greatest things about PC gaming has always been its versatility. I can hardly think of a more anti-PC attitude within PC gaming than insisting on m/kb controls when you can simply plug in a pad.

  13. Premium User Badge

    Gundato says:

    To be fair, I recall a lot of people saying “We would even be happy with a simple port!”

    Obviously “port” can have multiple meanings, but still.

    That being said, does kind of suck that the PC version looks like it will be rather weak. Fortunately, I already have my PS3 version, so this is more of a “that sucks” than a “HULK SMASH” for me.

    • FunkyBadger3 says:

      No, you can’t mean “PC Gamers” are a bunch of massively over-entitled cry-babies?

      • Runs With Foxes says:

        Maybe they just want a good quality product instead of a half-assed one? I guess they do feel entitled to that, yeah.

      • Premium User Badge

        Gundato says:

        Wasn’t aware I was implying that.

        But on that subject: We ALL suck. Everyone wants equality, but only so much as they are the most equal.

        Pricing/Sales/Deals: Every time there is a US-only sale (or Steam bones ~Americans), the rest of the world complains (but most of us Americans don’t mind too much). But, by that same token, one of the best sites for PC-gaming related deals regularly posts Europe (or even England) exclusive deals, and I mutter a “drat” every time Google Reader pulls the RSS feed. Europe has consistently gotten the best collector’s editions. And the rest of the world doesn’t mind (outside of the usual hate for collectors editions) while the Americans (myself included) whine.

        And the same with this. When I heard there was a PC port that was going to have new content, my very first thought was “Damn it, now they are boning me for buying the PS3 version”. And, by and large, no PC gamers (who didn’t already own the game :p) were complaining. Now it looks like us PC gamers are getting boned again, but those of us who were wearing PS3 Hats for Dark Souls are unaffected and not bothered anymore.

        Same with TW2:EE, actually. My first thought was “The PC Version better get those new cutscenes and what nots”.

        There is a LOT of hate in this comments thread, but one thing worth noting, even if you don’t want to acknowledge that we all suck: Think back to how Bethesda “screwed us” on Fallout 3 or any other time when a primarily PC-oriented studio made a console game. We complained that we were being abandoned. Well, I don’t see Armored Core or whatever else From Software made getting much love from the PC community (ever).
        So while they obviously blame Namco endlessly (hell, did Namco ever get much PC love?), do you really see them wanting to screw over the people who gave them the opportunity to shine? They can give us all the exclusive stuff we want, and that will just piss off the fanbase that has actually supported them.
        I know, I know “If they would just release games for my platform of choice, I would support them”. And that is exactly what happened to all of the “consolified” serieses.

  14. MythArcana says:

    Once a console game, always a console game.

  15. Sonblade says:

    Whatever the case is with this release, I feel this is a game we’d have to bite our tongue on. If people go on a hoity-toity rampage over this, we’ll likely never see a port like this ever again. It is in the best interest of people who wanted this game to be ported to PC to buy it, even if it means dealing with lackluster controls and the bells and whistles you expect from a PC game. Buy the game, but express your displeasure to Bamco and From Software. Let them know you want the games, but also want PC-specific changes in future releases. This is a huge undertaking for them, so sucking it up one time to show them the PC Master Race isn’t a bunch of whiny girls will help in the future.

    • Blackcompany says:

      Agreed. Taking the high road here and purchasing the game. Taking it on the chin, just a little, this time, for the sake of games like this on the PC.

      Now, if they do it again in future…not making any promises about that.

      • Sonblade says:

        Yes, on posts from the Namco Bandai forums, they are already saying that they see all the complaints about GFWL and are talking to the devs about it. They are clearly listening, but in this scenario, there is a short time frame to work on all of this so what they can do is limited. With future releases, one should definitely expect a fallout if they do a straight-port again, but in this scenario it is acceptable.

    • Xzi says:

      Nope, fuck ‘em. Namco Bandai doesn’t release enough good games for me to give a shit. And if this is the quality of work we can expect to see put in on any other game they might release on the PC, with no standard graphics options and little KB/M support, then I don’t want to see another PC release from them. Period.

      I’m not typically a gung-ho capitalist, but here I’ll make an exception. Let the good PC developers fill in the many areas which Namco Bandai has failed miserably. One game is not worth letting a developer disregard basic quality standards for PC gamers, no matter what that game is. The reason being that it sets a very dangerous precedent. If EA and Activision see Dark Souls sell well on the PC despite being a stripped down, glorified emulation of a console game, then that’s all we’ll be seeing on the PC for the next ten years.

      I hope this game fails to even recoup the costs it takes to port it.

      • Sonblade says:

        Bamco has released a whopping one PC game so far (Ridge Racer Unbounded), so obviously they aren’t going to be the greatest people at making PC games currently, so, give them a damn break. You also haven’t even tried out the M/KB controls for the game, so how are you even able to judge them? The game was specifically built around a gamepad, hence why they recommend a gamepad.

        As for your comment about Dark Souls possibly setting a precedent for future PC releases from EA/Activision: After the incredibly successful release & post-release of Skyrim, EA and Activision truly did step up their game with PC releases. They released so many crowd pleasing games that had excellent mod support, open gameplay, tons of content, constant updates, and the like. Oh wait, that never happened because one game never changes an industry. And besides, the current EA/Activision/Ubisoft ports to the PC aren’t any more stellar than what Dark Souls is offering. They may have graphical options, but they are still clearly built around gamepads. Graphics shouldn’t even be a deal breaker in this scenario since graphics aren’t what makes a game.

        As stated in the article you likely didn’t read, this port is an experiment to test the PC Market’s viability; if it fails, we will likely never see a requested PC release from Bamco, or any other publisher, ever again. Instead of being an entitled twat, accept this for what it is.

        • Xzi says:

          That’s exactly it. They’ve only ever released one game on the PC, and they’ve only released two games within the past ten years that I could give half a fuck about. So if they want to continue that trend and have no desire to put in the work necessary to make a decent experience on the PC, why should I care about the effect that Dark Souls’ PC sales have on their choice to port future titles? They’re setting themselves up for failure, so I’m just going to sit back and watch them progress through this self-fulfilling prophecy.

          And then you go on to contradict yourself here:

          “Oh wait, that never happened because one game never changes an industry.”

          “As stated in the article you likely didn’t read, this port is an experiment to test the PC Market’s viability; if it fails, we will likely never see a requested PC release from Bamco, or any other publisher, ever again.”

          So which is it? Is Dark Souls some grand test for the potential survival of the entire PC market, or does it only really affect Namco Bandai and their BS?

          Whatever your answer, I have a hard time caring. The truth of the matter is that the PC as a gaming platform has been on an upswing for the last couple years because of the current overextended console cycle. But there have always been people saying that PC gaming is “dying” since roughly 1992. That statement never has and never will scare me away from being a discerning customer.

          “Bamco” can blow me. If I wanted to play an emulated game with no KB+M support, that’s exactly what I’d do. The difference there being that I would still be able to avoid dealing with malware like GFWL, and I’d have a full suite of graphics options to play with.

          • Brun says:

            And then you go on to contradict yourself here:

            No he doesn’t. The “experiment” is internal to Bamco, and is necessary for them only because they have such limited experience in developing and publishing for PC. They’re doing it because they don’t know how viable the PC market is for their games, and how viable PC development is for them as a company. It’s not intended to be a litmus test for PC for the entire industry – other publishers already know that PC is a viable market because they’re making PC games (and if DS PC fails due to bad porting/GFWL issues, the other publishers will likely use it as a foil for their own games in their marketing efforts).

            It’s Bamco’s experiment. Not the industry’s.

          • Xzi says:

            Well he did say: “if it fails, we will likely never see a requested PC release from Bamco, or any other publisher, ever again.”

            That would seem to have implications well beyond Namco Bandai alone, yes? Certainly could have used some clarification if he meant it as you say he did.

          • Brun says:

            True enough and in that regard he is somewhat self-contradictory. However, I think the point of that sentence was to indicate that were DS to fail, Namco Bandai probably wouldn’t produce any more PC games (while whining that they were “betrayed” by the PC audience).

    • Beelzebud says:

      Battered Wife Syndrome.

  16. Buemba says:

    They should have hired a western studio to do the port as I bet most Japanese companies don’t have a clue about what makes PC gaming special.

    I’ll be shocked if the game offers anything other than resolution tweaks, and even that only in 16:9. Which is a bummer, as the Dirt series shows just how good the Phyre Engine can look on a PC.

    • Pointless Puppies says:

      Hiring 3rd party studios to handle PC ports has zero guarantee of resulting in a better product.

      Do remember that our beloved CDProjekt is responsible for the Saints Row 2 port.

  17. Desmolas says:

    My dad always told me:

    “Son, If something is worth doing, its worth doing right.”

    I supposed Namco’s dad never taught them this valuable lesson.

    • Premium User Badge

      ffordesoon says:

      No, their dad told them, “If it’s worth doing, it’s worth monetizing.”

    • Unaco says:

      Hey, my dad told me the same thing. Spooky. If they know much about the PC market, they know that poorly done ports are not tolerated. Show the PC some love though, and people will throw their money at you. There’s a huge audience and market for them to embrace, but if they try to exploit it, it won’t go down well.

  18. Khemm says:

    I’m usually vocal about such things, but in this case – sorry for my French – I don’t give a flying fuck.

    I stated a while ago that I’d be happy with smooth framerates and resolution options – I never expected DX11, higher res textures or improved assets, they don’t affect gameplay and Dark Souls already looks fine.
    Besides, I’m sure the keyboard and mouse controls will be OK and I plan on using my gamepad anyway.

    I’m super excited we’re getting the PC version AT ALL.

    • Max.I.Candy says:

      just what i was going to say but i’ll reply with a +1 instead!

      this is excactly what i was expecting.and i’m happy.

      i’ll just add that ppl who are complaining about gamepads, you need to suck it up and play it how its intended.

      • Baresark says:

        Those are the words of a non-PC gamer. Imagine if you bought it for the PS3 and then told it only supports an NES controller.

        • Khemm says:

          There will be keyboard and mouse support, we just don’t know anything else beyond that.

        • LennyLeonardo says:

          I agree with Khemm, and can you stop sneeringly calling people “non-PC gamers”, because it makes you look like a prick, and it also makes me throw up a little bit?

        • Pointless Puppies says:

          You’re terribly misinformed if you think there is no game on the PC that can ever be better with a gamepad. There are plenty. Namely, 3rd person platformers, racing games (though wheels are better) and flight sims (though joysticks are better).

          Plenty of console games are designed with gamepads in mind. You really have no grasp on the nuances of gaming inputs if you think you can take any game from any genre, slap KB+M and get an objectively better experience.

          • Gira says:

            Why is that “terribly misinformed”? Cast aside pointless observations like “IT WAS MADE WITH A GAMEPAD IN MIND!!” and think for a minute.

            There is no game control system known to man which is more precise than the mouse. In third-person games the character moves in discrete directions anyway, so if you need more nuance to your movement you just use the mouse, which is how it’s been for, I don’t know, over 15 years now. And if you need to separate mouse movement from character movement, you can hold down the right mouse button! Hey presto!

            Accepting it when developers say “it just works better with a gamepad” is not fine – not because of PC Elitism, but because it is a logical fallacy.

            If a PC game doesn’t work well on a mouse and keyboard, it’s because it’s a bad port, not because it’s a bloody design choice.

          • Pointless Puppies says:

            You simply don’t understand the fundamental difference between a gamepad and a mouse. You seem to equate the superiority of the accuracy from the mouse as a means to trump every other inherent difference that the gamepad possesses.

            What would be more appropriate in this discussion is that you cast aside your “MOUSE IS BETTER FOR EVERYTHING EVER” notion and think for a second that the two are very different. It’s not nearly as simple as saying that one aspect of one is accurate than that the other and therefore that one is better. There’s a lot more to KB+M than just the mouse, just as there is a lot more to a gamepad than a joystick.

          • Premium User Badge

            ffordesoon says:

            @Gira:

            I believe you, Gira. After all, you are the leading expert on elitism.

          • Lowbrow says:

            Self fulfilling prophecy. It works better on the gamepad, and no one will take the development time to figure out a good kb/m scheme, so it will alway work better on a gamepad.

    • Unaco says:

      I’m super excited we’re getting the PC version AT ALL.

      But, we’re not getting a PC version. We’re getting the game on PC… but it doesn’t appear to be a PC version.

      • Khemm says:

        I’m OK with this. I still play many old games in a window (DosBox, ScummVM) and those game have hardly any graphics options and other stuff.. but they’re fun. That’s all that matters.

        • mouton says:

          Of course, it is all a mater of opinion. But old games were made long time ago using old technology. I find it a bit annoying when makers of a new game can put a little effort into a port but choose not to.

  19. Tokjos says:

    You will die (because of terrible controls).

  20. RegisteredUser says:

    Cue “It didn’t sell because PIRATES!!111″ in 3..2..1..

  21. Paul says:

    As long as:

    1) I can play it at 60fps contant with controller on my TV

    2) at 1080p

    3) without bugs, glitches and crashes

    4) with its multiplayer element working well

    I will be supper happy. I am buying it day 1 no matter what though.

    • jacobvandy says:

      THIS.

      All it needs is to support an LCD monitor’s native res (which will be like 2-3x the resolution it ran on consoles) and actually scale in performance to the power of your rig. Being able to play Blight-town at more than 10 FPS will be worth it alone…

    • Khemm says:

      THIS x2.

    • db1331 says:

      Yup. Just being able to run it at 1980×1200 with 60fps is enough to get me to buy it. All the added bosses and gear are just icing on an already-better cake. People crying about mouse and keyboard support need to just get over it. They aren’t putting in the time for keyboard customization because nobody in their right mind would want to play this game with M+KB. Just like nobody in their right mind would want to play an FPS with a gamepad. You can do it, but you’re a fucking idiot.

    • Tokamak says:

      There have been some supposed reports that the game will be running at 30fps and 720p. Whether that actually means they didn’t bother optimizing it so that it runs 60fps or it’s actually locked to 30 fps and native resolution is 720p, with resolution options only resulting in up/downscaling from it or that your chosen resolution will not exceed that, has yet to be clarified.

    • Demiath says:

      This, a thousand times this! It could – and should – always be argued that the PC deserves better than a straight port, but at least in this particular case a straight port of a game as single-minded and refined (from a design perspective) as Dark Souls is good enough. Not ideal, mind you, but good enough.

  22. thepavementview says:

    From my understanding, the fact that they’re porting it to GFWL means they’ll be able to spend more time on new content for the PC. They’re porting the game from the X-Box version, meaning a lot of code can be recycled. More importantly, I really, really can’t stand all the hand-wringing this has prompted. Because they’re using an X-Box port, they can spend more time working on new content. We’re lucky that Namco is even porting the damn game in the first place, they aren’t going to change the platform, and it’s probably going to show up on Steam anyway (though you’ll have to launch Games for Windows Live, nonetheless) so petitioning to have GFWL removed is not only nitpicking but pointless as well. This situation is an excellent illustration of the entitlement many gamers feel. Just look at the Dark Souls Facebook page, and you’ll see many people who are claiming they refuse to buy the game on account of GFWL. The “if I can’t get the game MY WAY, I don’t want it at all” attitude is a bit bewildering (I know people are worried about things like graphics options and control mapping, I am concerned about these things as well, but the hand wringing I’ve seen is a bit much). It’s like a child who’s just been given some ice cream complaining that there are no sprinkles. Just shut up and eat your damn ice cream.

  23. Premium User Badge

    Deepo says:

    I can live with this stuff, just PLEASE don’t lock it at 30FPS.

    • Baresark says:

      That is honestly my biggest concern. That there will be framerate cap. I don’t buy games that don’t run smooth. And at 30 FPS, it will not do that.

  24. Robert says:

    I think people underestimate the amount of work that would go in a port+graphic overhaul+mouse support+mod support. They would need to sell a lot of pc games to pay for that, as it’s not coming out of the console budget.

  25. Dominic White says:

    I hate being right. The complaining about it not being a pure PC game has already started, and it’s not even out yet!

    I shouldn’t be surprised – I saw people on this forum angry that Devil May Cry 4 wasn’t completely designed to fit mouse/keyboard play. News flash, people: Some games are just designed to be played with a gamepad.

    • Khemm says:

      Yep. It’s fucking ridiculous, what a bunch of whiny drama queens. What the hell did everyone expect? DX11? Tesselation? New control schemes designed from scratch? Unrealistic expectations much?
      Just be happy we’re getting a PC version and use a gamepad. Sheesh.

      • Prime says:

        Agreed, Gents. Getting a bit tired of the ‘heaven-or-hell’ nature of many people’s thinking on this website. There never seems to be a realistic, balanced medium, just madly fizzy bubbles of runaway joy or the deepest blackest rage imaginable.

        To all Dark Souls fans: It’s coming to PC. You got what you wanted. Now can we please just sit back and await the game?

    • Max.I.Candy says:

      it makes me laugh when ppl just WILL NOT use gamepads even though its the obvious and best solution

    • Walter Heisenberg says:

      The way Devil May Cry 4 and the Souls games control and handle are worlds apart. There’s nothing about Dark Souls controls that would feel unnatural when mapped to M&KB so if game suffers from poor key binding options that would be a damn shame.

      • Demiath says:

        Well, I disagree completely. Most things about Demon’s Souls/Dark Souls’ controls would feel very “unnatural” with mouse & keyboard. Which, of course, isn’t to say that M&K couldn’t work in a purely technical sense or that there shouldn’t be any M&K support at all; just that it’s never the ideal solution for this and many other games which were specifically designed with a gamepad in mind.

        • Bhazor says:

          Movement in particular is very important in Dark Souls, being able to fully control movement speed is crucial for large areas of the game. So if the k+b version is limited to a digital walk/run setting it would be losing a lot.

        • Baresark says:

          This is a false statement. M+KB tend to be about a million times more accurate and precise. It would be easy. They only need a walk, a run, and a sprint (common PC fair). The mouse could control the camera (which is what it does in a lot of games), mouse 1 does light attack, mouse 2 does hard attack. F uses your selected item. Q and E cycle your left and right hand weapons. Space can be your dodge button (which can be separate from sprint because there is no limitation what so ever with a KB…. I could go on and lay out exactly what a decent setup would be, but it’s not really worth. My point is that there is no way a controller could be a better option than M+KB. This whole, “how it’s meant to be” rhetoric just blows my mind. It’s as stupid as when Nintendo locked you into using the Wiimote for Twilight Princess, despite the Gamecube controller be a lot better for it.

          • Kaira- says:

            If anything, KB+M would be the inferior choice of control in DaS. Binary controls don’t work very well when the game is designed to heavily use analogue movement. With KB you simply can’t get that kind of precision and smoothness.

          • Baresark says:

            It certainly is not true. It doesn’t make heavy use of the analog. it has 3 movement speeds, handled just fine on a KB. That is not a very well thought out statement good sir and/or madam.

          • jwoozy says:

            Analogue-style movement in 3rd-person has been perfectly functional and precise on Kb/M ever since the mouse wheel was invented. You use the wheel to control speed and mouselook to control direction with shift as sprint/full speed, and then just move inventory management to the tab or q key for quick switching.

          • delialli says:

            I can tell from the way you’re talking about this that you haven’t played the game. Three different speeds CAN be handled easily by keyboard, but not quickly, and you’re going to want to be quick. That also leaves the problem of direction. You can’t mouselook, the game is designed for dual analogue and you’re going to want to look in one direction and run in another when I am about to kick you off a ledge in the crystal caves. I’m not saying it’ll be impossible with keyboard, but it’ll be a significant handicap because this game is so well designed for controller.

            Dark Souls is like a David Lynch game. It’s hard to get into and at times you doubt if the creators even knew how to work their equipment, then a bit later it blows your mind.

  26. Johnny Lizard says:

    If this game doesn’t come out in a big cardboard box, with a cloth map drawn by John Howe, and a novella of 86 pages MINIMUM, I’m boycotting Namco forever. Fuck you, Namco.

  27. Text_Fish says:

    I wish someone would start a petition to stop people using change.org for their petitions. It’s buggier than a tuppeny console port.

  28. ScubaMonster says:

    So let’s take a look at this; people were bitching they weren’t even going to get the game at all, and now that they ARE getting it, they’re going to bitch about GFWL and whatnot?

    I’m all for demanding the most out of a product, but geez, some people will never be happy. Just be glad you’re getting it on PC at all.

    • Donjo says:

      I think it’s understandable that people don’t want a shit version of what they want.

      • Prime says:

        But how can a game be madly anticipated/universally praised one moment when it’s on consoles then not desired quite as much/at all when the exact same product (excluding the GFWL) is brought to PC?

        I know we have higher standards than lowest-common denominator but this is an insane amount of bitching over a product we haven’t even seen yet that, thanks to the new content, sounds better than the version currently on consoles. “Oh no, despite them being gracious enough to give us what we asked for they’ve not read our 30-40 point checklist of things WE DEMAND in a ‘proper’ PC game – OH NOES!!!”

    • Vinraith says:

      A version of the game which randomly deletes/corrupts your save game is not a version of the game worth having.

      • Pointless Puppies says:

        Are people psychics today or something? Where in the world do you just happen to know that’ll be an issue with Dark Souls? Because, as you probably already know but choose to ignore, those issues aren’t present in every GFWL game.

    • Baresark says:

      You are looking at it all wrong. People weren’t bitching about not getting the game at all. They wanted it and let Namco Bandai know that if they put it out, it would sell. This also came with the understanding that if they were going to release it on the PC, they would probably want to do it right. Well, they don’t want to do it right. They want to shoehorn people into playing it the way some people who have zero experience with PC games believe it is best played.

      Also, remember, people are making a ruckus because they actually give a shit about this game. While I agree that many PC gamers are self entitled twits, we are not all that way. I just want the game to be as good as it can be so there is incentive to release future iteration of it. But, they are self sabotaging. And people who defend the position are enablers. Namco Bandai is an alcoholic who will keep hitting his hand with a hammer, and enablers let them keep doing it without even trying to stop them.

    • jwoozy says:

      As a prize for your thoughtful input on this matter, I reward you with a cookie.

      (The cookie is covered in shit)

  29. Ultra-Humanite says:

    I’m excited to see piracy get the blame for poor sales when this is released.

  30. magnus says:

    There was probably going to be a port anyway and the petition was there to draw attention to it. At least that’s ‘my’ angle on it.

    • Max.I.Candy says:

      your angle is incorrect.

      • Walter Heisenberg says:

        Care to explain why?

        • Max.I.Candy says:

          i asked before and after release if it was coming to PC and it was only after the petition gained momentum that execs took it seriously.
          they wouldnt have deliberately hidden it because they didnt think there was a market for the game on PC in the first place.

          if you needed more proof then surely todays news of it being a straightforward port is enough?

  31. MarcusCardiff says:

    They just lost me as a customer.

    • Prime says:

      For giving you what you wanted? A version of the game you could play on PC? Sounds to me like they’re not losing much.

      • Brun says:

        People wanted a proper PC game, not just a “version playable on PC.” I fully understand why Namco isn’t providing that, but I can also understand why people are disappointed and upset.

        • Prime says:

          People should have specified in the petition they signed, then. It’s great to dream but everyone knew this was a possibility. They knew and yet they still whooped, cheered and patted each other on the back like they suddenly had a direct line to Santa. Now it’s “they’ve lost me as a customer” and bitter tears of disappointment even though they’re still getting what they asked for. It’s ludicrous.

          • Premium User Badge

            RobF says:

            “I know you put I want a pony for Xmas on your list, hon but you should have specified you wanted a live one with all its legs and not with its guts splayed out everywhere and its intestines wrapped around the doorknob on your Christmas list. How was I to know!”

          • Prime says:

            ““I know you put I want a pony for Xmas on your list, hon but you should have specified you wanted a live one with all its legs and not with its guts splayed out everywhere and its intestines wrapped around the doorknob on your Christmas list. How was I to know!””

            “A pony? But I got you a pony! What do you mean you wanted an Arabian racing stallion, exactly 16 hands high, with a pure black coat except for that one white patch on its nose? What do you mean you wanted it to be able to count to nineteen with its hooves? Oh, you wanted it to prance like a Lippinzaner as well? You asked for “a pony” and that’s what you’re getting, you ungrateful brat!”

            While I completely understand the desire to have the PC treated with as much respect for its capabilities as possible – I boycott Ubisoft games currently for this very reason – in this case there was absolutely no guarantee we were going to get a slick, polished, respectful, PC-adapted port. None. Nada. Zilch. Yes, it’s disappointing but we’re still miraculously getting the game we asked for. No wonder PC gamers have a reputation for being moaning bitches! We’re apparently, judging by the noise, never happy unless our internal wishlists of conditions (the ones we failed to put in the original request) have been catered to!

          • Premium User Badge

            RobF says:

            Next time we ask a company for a game to be ported we’ll make sure we put “ps: – must work too” in your honour.

  32. kyrieee says:

    Welp
    Might make me buy a controller

  33. Dr I am a Doctor says:

    There are people playing without a controller? Whoa

  34. Sirico says:

    All that seems reasonable tbh when the next game comes along I’m sure all these issues will be addressed. The binary controls of a keyboard would be terrible for certain bits of Darksouls. Sounds like they’re at least giving the option but no matter how good they support the mouse and keyboard this is one domain the controller is better suited.

  35. Donjo says:

    Can’t wait for PRESS START TO PLAY

    • Khemm says:

      Portal 2 told you “NOT TO TURN OFF YOUR CONSOLE”, but hey, it was Valve, so they can get away with everything.

      • Donjo says:

        I didn’t see that when I played it.. I believe you though. They did a terrible console port of it, I was still seething the third time I played through. Terrible optimisation for mouse and keyboard, no graphics options AND I had to play it through GFWL. Valve really don’t give a shit about PC gamers.

  36. ZIGS says:

    I refuse to buy a gamepad just to play a single game. I’ve been playing on PC since 1999 and never used/needed one so fuck you if you think otherwise

    • Freud says:

      Fighting windmills is much more efficient with analogue controls.

    • Bhazor says:

      “Grrrr I can’t believe they’re making me buy a joystick to play a flight sim”
      “Grrrr I can’t believe they’re making me buy a plastic guitar to play guitar hero”

      Some games don’t play well on a keyboard and mouse. Try Street Fighter 2 for example.

      Really if you are serious enough about gaming to come here then you should be serious enough to spend £15 on a half way decent game controller.

      • ZIGS says:

        I played Street Fighter 4 with keyboard just fine, thank you. Like I said, I never needed to use a gamepad so far

        • Khemm says:

          So who says you won’t be a able to play DS with K&M “just fine”, too?
          Mind you, keyboard also was sort of an afterthought for Street Fighter and a less preferable way to play the game than with an arcade stick.

        • Bhazor says:

          Now if you’re playing Street Fighter on a keyboard you will never in a trillion years experience the game. You will think you have. But you will be cheated. It is such a sadness to think you’ve played Street Fighter 4 on your FUCKING keyboard.

          Get real.

          • ZIGS says:

            I tried playing Street Fighter with a gamepad once (not to mention back when I had a Sega Saturn), still prefer the keyboard. Where’s your god now?

          • Beva says:

            I tried playing HL2 with M/KB once, it was awful, so I switched to my Tac 2, now THAT, was playing HL2.

  37. mikmanner says:

    Come on! They have limited budget and time to complete this port, it’s coming out on PC, it’s being made by people not used to developing PC games. They’re adding new content… quit complaining. Beyond Good and Evil for example, I’m glad I got to play that, at no point did I think, well…I wish this had HDR and mod tools.

    The entire core combat has been created from day one to be used with a controller, they want you to play it with a controller. You should play it with a controller, I’m almost certain it would be a lesser experience if played with a keyboard and mouse, no matter how hard you think of the best key bindings.

  38. FieldOfTheBattle says:

    You people are fucking pathetic, you BEGGED for this game to be on PC and now all you do is bitch and moan because the game is not ported the way you like it. Well be grateful you are getting ANYTHING at all, show Namco there is demand for their games not by begging and bitching but by buying and maybe Namco will have so much trust in the PC market that the next game will be tailored to your needs.

    • Khemm says:

      Totally agree. I mean holy hell, I can’t believe some bullshit people are writing here.

    • theleif says:

      I don’t see anyone asking for something outlandish here. It’s not like people are up in arms for lack of physx, tesselation or DX11. I can see that there can be difficulties to make the game playable on M+KB, but on the other hand, my experience with the control scheme for Demons Souls (I haven’t played DS) on the PS3 was pretty frustrating, so mouselook would be a great boon for me. But I’m generally pretty sucky with a controller, so it could be that.
      What I want is the game to not be locked at 30 (or any other) fps, I want it to run at the resolution my screen supports, I want to be able to change AA, AF and vsync. I would really like if I had a choice of texture quality and view distance and such, but it’s not a make or brake deal if I don’t.
      I am going to pay (I assume) 50€ for this game, so I expect them to make the game fit for the device I buy it for. Is that such an outrageous demand?

    • Baresark says:

      That is horribly failed circular logic. If everyone buys a game that sucks (not saying it will, I will still be buying this on the PC), then that tells the number guys that what they did was ok. And it makes it look like fringe gamers are bitching. It does not look like the majority of people who play the game are discontented with the controls or options.

      • Prime says:

        Do we always have to go for the most cynical way to look at everything? Why can’t we just accept that we got what we flaming well asked for – the game on PC – and smile and say thank you and look forward to playing it without working ourselves into lathers humming and hawing between which horrible outcome we’re going to get shafted with?

        I didn’t even want the fucking game but, after months and months and MONTHS of people on this website going on and on and on and on and on and on an…about how wonderful it is and how it’s the ‘best game of 2011′ I’m now rather intrigued to sit and play it without having to fork out hundreds for a console I don’t want. Frankly, if it’s as good as everyone’s been saying then the minor inconvenience of having to use a gamepad (which, if you truly value the PC as a platform that can adapt to any game you throw at it then you’ll have one anyway) or the vague stigma of having to use GFWL should be minor hurdles for you. Or, as I have begun to suspect, have people been talking rather a lot of hot gas, as per usual?

        • Brun says:

          There’s nothing vague about the stigma against GFWL.

          Also, the implication behind the request for DS PC was that it would be a solid port. Maybe the petition didn’t say that explicitly, or maybe it did and Namco has chosen to ignore it.

          I think a lot of the reason for the cynical view, though, is that Namco-Bandai are setting themselves up for failure. The concern is that if DS PC fails, Namco-Bandai won’t understand WHY, and write off the PC as a bunch of pirates and thieves who didn’t put their money where their mouth was. Viewed from this perspective I’d almost rather them not make the port if they aren’t going to do it right, precisely to avoid the above scenario.

          • Pointless Puppies says:

            The issue here is people’s definitions with what they consider a “solid port”. Given the circumstances, that is the reason for the port (an internet petition), From’s lack of PC dev experience, their short timeframe, the fact they’re adding more content, for me a “solid port” would mean a game that isn’t riddled with bugs, works well with a gamepad, doesn’t have horrible issues like deleting gamesaves, and runs fairly decently (as in, mostly 60FPS, maybe a couple of dips here and there) with a midrange graphics card.

            And here’s the thing: the definition of “solid port” changes depending on the developer. My definition of a “solid port” for a Valve game is one that doesn’t even have the word “port” in it. I fully expect the game to be designed from the ground up for the PC, mostly because that’s the standard they’ve set for themselves. Begrudgingly, my expectations for most EA ports tend to be very low, mostly because they’ve communicated pretty well they don’t give a fuck.

            What I find funny is that several people here (not saying you specifically) are randomly pulling out of their ass arbitrary definitions of “solid port” for From Software/Bamco and crying foul when these random definitions aren’t met. Like, for instance, people are crying foul that the game may not have mod support, even though Bioware gets a free pass on that for the Mass Effect series for no good reason. Where the hell are these standards coming from?

    • kud13 says:

      erm, since when is “showing interest in a product” equivalent to “begging”?

      just about everyone who keeps mentioning “entitlement” and acting like it’s a miracle that DS is coming to PC is forgetting something. The game is coming to PC because Namco wants our money.

      If it wants my money, it has to convince me its product has a value that equal or greater to the asking price. I’ve already said several times why GaFWL is a major no-no in terms of value for me.

      RE: controllers. every PC uses M+KB as primary method of input. Gamepads are an unnecessary peripheral. Making your product require an unnecessary peripheral by offering a sub-par experience on the system’s primary input method is not a sound decision.

      • Prime says:

        RE: controllers. every PC uses M+KB as primary method of input. Gamepads are an unnecessary peripheral. Making your product require an unnecessary peripheral by offering a sub-par experience on the system’s primary input method is not a sound decision.

        Sorry you feel that way about Gamepads. The handheld ergonomics of a pad are better for many things. You can’t play Street Fighter with m+kb. Not to any kind of winning standard, and certainly not easily. I prefer using pads for platform games and complex 3rd person action titles (Dark Souls, Legacy of Kain, Tomb Raider, etc) Analogue sticks are great for driving games. Joysticks are better for flight sims. This m+kb fetishism just doesn’t reflect the reality of owning a PC. The game is the most important thing, not the hardware you use to play it with.

  39. WrongThinker says:

    While slightly disappointing, I think “Dark Souls at a Smooth Frame Rate” is bonus enough.

    I truly hope that not supporting some PC bells and whistles doesn’t keep people from this game, which is truly beautiful and incredible.

    • Prime says:

      Two words for you: FPS Limiter. It could happen.

      • ZIGS says:

        Yeah, just wait until they say it’s capped at 30 FPS. I mean, it IS a direct port right? That’s their excuse for the lack of customizable controls so don’t be surprised

  40. puzl says:

    If anyone genuinely expected Bamco to do anything more than a straight-up port of this game, then they were living in cuckoo land. Japanese developers/publishers have never understood the idiosyncrasies of the PC market, or simply don’t consider it worthwhile enough to the extra effort. Frankly i’m amazed that we’re getting new bosses/areas/gear etc BUT, I also remember seeing some of the boss designs in the PS3 version’s artbook that came with the limited edition, so it’s more likely that this was cut content (due to time constraints) that has been revisited. It’s pretty much a given that it’ll come out as DLC for the console versions too.

    I’ve put in well over 500 hours of this game on the PS3 (mainly for PVP… lol lagstabs, etc..) and I can tell you one thing I know as a PC gamer: this game will be AWFUL with a keyboard/mouse, especially now that they’re not bothering to change the interface. There are 3 movement speeds for example: slow walk, fast walk, and run, all of which need to be used fast and often to succeed in this game. Analogue control is pretty much essential in my opinion, much in the same way that I could never play a competitive FPS on a gamepad. I’m sure many here will argue that they’ll get used to it, but coming from a PC and console gamers perspective, it’s just not going to be as much fun using the KB/mouse.

    As for the graphics and such, it is generally a very pretty game anyway, plus i’m sure it’ll be quite easy to use FXAA-injector or other similar tools to get the necessary AA/AF etc.. just in case they don’t program it in. As the owner of a fast i7/gtx580 equipped machine, i’m sure this will run Blightown & Anor Londo with a nice framerate, regardless of how lazy the port is!

    One thing most people probably overlook (but is absolutely crucial imo) is that the PS3 version of Dark Souls was not region locked. Anyone around the world could play with anybody else, which combined with the P2P matchmaking system has left the PVP game a cess pit of phantom backstabs, random crystal soulmass’ in your face and general shittiness that it is today. The userbase on PS3 is about 90% Japanese in my experience and as a UK gamer, 500+ latency in a game that demands such split-milesecond reflexes is just a joke really. If GFWL will do one thing right, it’ll at least match us up with players who actually feel like they’re on this planet, heh.

    Anyway TL;DR: This is an amazing game and even a straight-up port is probably better than most other PC games you’ll play this year or indeed any other year. Just buy a control pad for the love of god.

    • Pointless Puppies says:

      It amazes me that people are whining and bitching about having to get a gamepad at this day and age. I abhor playing FPS’s on a gamepad, but a whole bunch of other games that were clearly designed with consoles in mind actually control better with one. Do these people never play flight sims or racing games? Do they really play games like Devil May Cry 4 with a KB+M?

      • puzl says:

        Exactly. PC gamers are the first to laugh at console players using gamepads to play FPS’, but it’s the exact same issue with third-person action games when using a KB/mouse. It just doesn’t work as good as a controller. Combine that with the fact that DkS requires pin-precise movement/timing and you’re just doing yourself an injustice by not playing it on a gamepad. Still don’t believe me? Then you’re gonna have fun finding out the hard way with the archers and painting guardians in Anor Londo, heh.

        • Max.I.Candy says:

          yeah have fun walking along those 60ft high beams with kb/m.

          • Runs With Foxes says:

            I can’t believe people on a PC games site are saying things like this. You are familiar with the concept of ‘mouse look’, aren’t you? That is, you can use the mouse to point your character exactly where you want to go, with finer and more responsive controls than analog sticks give. Crossing the beams should be a hell of a lot easier with mouse and keyboard — if it was ported properly.

          • Pointless Puppies says:

            By the same token, I can’t believe people are judging an entire form of control input simply by the mouse/joystick portion. You probably ought to realize that there’s a lot more to these form of inputs than just a mouse/joystick.

      • Soon says:

        “Do these people never play flight sims or racing games? Do they really play games like Devil May Cry 4 with a KB+M?”

        I think it’s just a coincidence that games that need controllers have never really appealed to me. I’m curious about Dark Souls, though.

        • Max.I.Candy says:

          never played racing games?

          • identiti_crisis says:

            I grew up playing racing games on keyboard. I consider it a sign of the game’s quality if I’m able to “adequately” (= fun) and consistently play the thing off the keyboard. The Flatout games are a great example of this.

            The same applies to simulators, believe it or not; I’ve played both Richard Burns Rally and Grand Prix Legends on my keyboard, and they were fine. Sure, it’s more involving and possibly easier to go faster (depending on the game) with a wheel, but a keyboard is still the most common interface, so it should at least be enjoyable, even if it’s (arguably) not “ideal”.

          • Max.I.Candy says:

            i grew up playing racing games on kb/m too mate, but my gaming habits evolved as gaming hardware evolved.join us!

          • identiti_crisis says:

            I still think good (fully functional, and engaging) keyboard controls are a minimum requirement.
            If nothing else it’ll hook your players in, and maybe then they’ll consider “extra” hardware worth the expense and desk clutter. That’s exactly why I have a wheel; permanently attached to my desk, no less.

    • Baresark says:

      All of the arguments about the necessity of analogue movement with this game are wrong. Three movements speeds and high reaction time are part of a huge amount of PC games. I will still buy this game, and if the M+KB support sucks, I’ll use a gamepad. That is fine by me, a lot of games are just better with that, while others are horrible with it. That is a fact of life. I just can’t stand how poorly thought out this argument is. As an example, The Witcher 2 was able to be played from day one with a gamepad. I played it that way a little bit myself. But the game was a billion times more reactive with a M+KB. The mouse alone will almost completely eliminate the occasional fight you have with camera.

      I’m ultimately fine with using a controller, but cut the BS about the necessity of analog movement.

  41. Pointless Puppies says:

    Are people really THAT surprised, or is it just le sighing for the sake of le sighing?

    Let’s look at the facts that we knew since before this interview came along. We knew the port was going to be done in a few months and that it was going to get extra content, meaning less time for making an extra polished PC version with all the bells and whistles. We knew the developer is small and they have little experience with developing on the PC. We knew that Namco Bandai is a weird publisher that seems to decide on localization/port decisions purely by throwing darts at a dart board. And we knew that this is a console game through and through that only got a PC port greenlight because of an internet petition, of all things.

    To know all of the above and yet still somehow expect a fully-polished PC version with pristine KB+M controls and full mod support is willingly feigning ignorance and setting yourself up for disappointment. The fact that Miyazaki is even considering mod support is surprising to me, I would’ve bet he was going to say “lolno. We’re barely getting this up and running on the PC as it is with this budget+timeframe+dev experience”.

    Beggars can’t be choosers. The fact that it’s coming at all is still something that I never would’ve guessed beyond my wildest imagination but it’s coming, and all because of an internet petition that nobody else would’ve bothered to listen to.

    • Ysellian says:

      Beggers can’t be choosers and nothing else needs to be said :)

      • kud13 says:

        Except we aren’t beggars. We are consumers, and Namco wants our money.
        God, for every person moaning about “entitlement”, there’s at least one person saying “we should just do what the publisher tells us and give them our money no matter what kind of product they decide to make”.

      • Baresark says:

        This statement is all over this thread and it’s completely out place.

        It seems torn between just being thankful we got anything at all and not even giving the game a chance before we declare it’s a no sale. Both extremes are nonconstructive.

        As they are out to get our money, we have every right to not be happy with how a product is coming out, and every right to not buy a product because we don’t like the controls or don’t like GFWL. And if we don’t let them know we are unhappy then nothing will ever change. And they will fail as a publisher who has a vested interest in PC games by not doing a good job when they release games. It’s not rocket science. Yeah sure, they don’t “need” to release things on the PC, but we are talking about a market with potentially millions of customers for them. If they are too stupid to see that, then they deserve to fail.

        At the same time, we shouldn’t declare it a no buy based on what one guy said in an interview. There is probably one thing that will make me not buy this game and that is a frame rate cap. But barring that (or a workaround by the very devoted PC community), I will be buying this game. I would prefer a good KB+M setup, but I have played for hundreds of hours on my PS3, so a controller wouldn’t be that big of a deal. PC gamers are supposed to be versatile after all.

        • Ysellian says:

          Indeed people have a right to say they don’t like the product they are getting and I do regret my statement about beggars. On the other hand in this particular instance it concerns a game that had a snowball’s chance in hell of getting ported, especially with Namco as their publishers.

  42. Bhazor says:

    To be fair this would play badly on a keyboard and mouse. Not because of the buttons or camera or what have you but because Dark Soul’s requires precision movement speed which is something that analog controllers have and keyboards don’t. If the PC version is limited to a walk/run system on keyboard it could actually become unplayable.

    • Xzi says:

      The mouse wheel comes to mind here…

      Honestly, all I could think every second while playing the Xbox 360 version was, “this game would be so much better on a mouse and keyboard.” And it really would be if they were to just put a little effort into it. This isn’t Devil May Cry or Assassin’s Creed. The Souls games are more about precision and timing with button presses than they are about wildly wailing on your controller in order to do things quickly.

      And if it really was designed with the gamepad as the only primary control method, then they REALLY fucked up, because the vast majority of the control scheme is completely unintuitive as-is. Not only could it have been done MUCH better on a keyboard and mouse, but there is room for improvement on the gamepad controls, too.

    • Baresark says:

      The analog movement argument is a fallacy. That fact that you think there is only two movement options available to the typical KB+M setup shows you don’t do much in the way of PC gaming. There are only 3 relevant movement speeds in Dark Souls. Walk, run and sprint. There are a whole lot of PC games that use that particular setup. Also, it will be easier to be more precise with a mouse controlling the camera.

      This type of statement is a red herring. So please stop using it. It’s not constructive at all.

    • Beva says:

      Except when you actually lock onto things, which is something you will NEED to do, you’ll be able to move in all kinds of directions, like, WAY more then eight. On the other hand, maybe they should remove the combat system, and the lock on, and the speed of movement and maybe switch to first person and turn it into that great Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind combat that is ever so exciting and fun and works so well.

      I can understand some of the things people are upset about, but blindly claimng KB/M would work better is rediculous, as is complaining about the original controls for Dark/Demon Souls. I’m not even sure if the people are hating on the port or the actual core of the game.

      And, frankly, if you hate the idea of this game/port/whatever don’t buy it, surely?

      • identiti_crisis says:

        It worked alright in Severance: Blade of Darkness, a game which clearly influenced both Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls. (Or maybe there’s some other common ancestry, I’m not sure – it was still perfectly fine.)

        They should at least make the keyboard controls workable and fun. It doesn’t matter if they’re (arguably) not “ideal”, most PC owners have keyboards, and it would be a shame for them to have a negative experience with the game because the controls simply don’t “work”. Making the game playable only on “a” gamepad is a very bad move, in my opinion. Of course, we don’t know yet.

        Besides, we should be encouraging more “non-gamers” to realise their true calling…

      • pkt-zer0 says:

        Why would you NEED the lock-on when you have the precision of KB+M? I see it as a crutch for gamepads, you can get by without it just fine otherwise.

        • JackShandy says:

          A lot of spells and things home towards whatever you’re locked on to. If you’re a mage you can’t do without it.

      • Beva says:

        It worked “alright” in Severance yeah, once you figured out which button was switch lock to the far left enemy and which one was the close right etc. But once you got used to it it was fine, I guess. But personally I think Severance is the prime example of why Dark Souls works better on a pad.

        @pkt-zer0

        Because maybe it offers a great variation to the combat system that you otherwise wouldn’t have, maybe? Maybe in stead of it being a crutch it’s a part of the actual gameplay? In what game can I get by without it just fine, Skyrim? Because Skyrim has GREAT combat, right? The closest you get to a decent melee combat system with mouse look is M&B, and still I personally find that not as good as DS (or Darksiders for that matter).

        • identiti_crisis says:

          Yeah, it might be “better” for some on a pad, but that’s not the issue at hand, is it? I’m repeating myself now, but there is no excuse for the game being “unplayable” on the keyboard; harder, yes, fine, maybe, (arguably: we’ll have to see), but not unplayable. Controllers are controllers, they need to be tuned in exactly the same way.

          And this idea of “getting used” to Severance’s controls is amusing, considering that’s exactly what I had to do to play Demon’s Souls! Every game takes some “getting used to”, and the more similar a control scheme is to that which you’ve experienced before, the less time it takes to get used to.

          With that in mind, are we to take it that this argument really only involves people saying the game should cater (in a fundamental sense) to their “preferred” control method? Why is that such a bad thing?

          • Beva says:

            I would never want a game to be unplayable on a keyboard and I very much doubt this one will be, what I mean is that some games just lend themselves better to different control options(DS being one of those games). And quite a large number of people here will not, or can not accept that.

          • identiti_crisis says:

            Actually, I suspect the objection is to being told they should be using a certain controller in the first place. I’m sure it works both ways.

  43. CommanderZx2 says:

    What did you expect of course it was going to be a cheap straight port. If people still buy it and like it they may make a proper PC version for the game’s sequel.

  44. Maniacal says:

    Oh well, I probably wasn’t going to buy it anyway (mostly for reasons not directly related to the game itself though). There is no way I am going to pay full price for a half-assed port, nor am I going to spend over $100 CAD on the game (full price + gamepade + taxes).

  45. Metalhead9806 says:

    Why Sigh?
    I wasn’t expecting the game to be remade for the PC.
    I knew I would be using a gamepad and the only graphical enhancements over the PS3 version would be higher resolution, Graphics card Forced AA and 60+ fps and GFWL makes sense since it makes if easily ported over from xbox.

    I’m so happy that I get to buy this on PC with new content!

  46. TaroYamada says:

    I don’t care about extra graphical settings, I don’t mind straight console ports. We can force AA if it isn’t in the menu’s, and we get higher resolutions and frame rates. That’s still a PC bump. Also don’t care about the controller issue, this looks like a game that would play better on the 360 pad. I don’t want GFWL though, hopefully it is steamworks.

  47. ossia says:

    I can’t stand the arrogance of asking for a port of a console game, and then moaning that you’re getting a port of a console game. I thought all this “entitlement” talking points from publishers was garbage but this kind of stuff makes me re-think it.

  48. TwwIX says:

    I smell a half assed port afoot.

  49. Fox89 says:

    It is important we remember why this is happening at all. The very fact that there is going to be a PC port at all is a favour to us. Or rather, it is a gamble on the publisher’s part. I would love to see loads of good PC support, I would love to see GFWL removed, but at the end of the day this is Namco’s toe-in-the-water of a market they were not expecting to put their game on.

    Because of that I expect From have an extremely limited budget to get it done, to minimize the publisher’s risk if PC gamers like us don’t put our money where our mouth is come release. Yes, we should keep making it known that we don’t want GFWL, what we expect a PC port to have, and so on. But at the same time we need to buy the game and show Namco Bandai that there is a valid PC market, so that when they make the next game they have a reason to provide us better support.

    It’s a give and take relationship between publishers and consumers. We give money, we take game. But in this case we need to give more that just money, we need to give them a viable reason to invest in the PC platform. So that in the future we can take more games and better ports. I’ll be buying this as long as the port isn’t totally unacceptable, and I hope we can all step up to the plate.

    • pkt-zer0 says:

      “Or rather, it is a gamble on the publisher’s part.”

      Half-assing the port and slapping on GfWL isn’t helping with the risk, there.

      • Fox89 says:

        It’s a hell of a lot cheaper. If you’re going to risk losing a lot of money on an unknown market, it makes sense to keep that number as low as possible.

        I can’t make myself hold a grudge against Namco Bandai for having that attitude. If it were my money I might well do the same thing. Besides, it’s not ‘slapping on’ GFWL, the netcode is extremely similar to what they already have for Xbox Live.

      • ossia says:

        Half-assing the port by….porting the Xbox360 version? What do you expect, to be catered to with special treatment? This whole demographic that’s complaining so loudly about something that was practically begged for just seems really spoiled and hard to please and if this is how the community acts when it gets the same game as everyone else then I can understand why more developers don’t pay attention to it.

      • Tams80 says:

        This sense of entitlement isn’t going to help anyone.

        • Baresark says:

          Entitlement has literally nothing to do with it. People are making statements that are relevant for the absolute success of this product. Why are people so dense about this. They aren’t having a PC release just to placate to the PC users. They aren’t doing this just so us PC gamers can get hold of their best product. They want people to pay them for this product. I’m buying it, but I get so completely tired of seeing this line of thought. Entitlement means that people feel they have a right to this product. While I get tired of seeing the whining as much as anyone, entitlement doesn’t begin to be the right word. No one is acting like they have a right to the exact product they want, they are saying, “hey, just so you know, if you do X,Y, and Z, I can’t support your product”. My only requirement is that there is no frame rate cap. That is it. I want to have a smooth experience with this, and if I can’t I’ll stick to the PS3 edition. Which comes with shitty frame rates included as well.

          • Lowbrow says:

            “Entitlement” has lost all meaning these days. It’s just a negative pejorative now, much like “liberal” in the Fox news era.